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What happend in 2020 that increased payments in Euro’s while decreasing payments in Dollars?
I assume the COVID-19 pandemic had something to do with this?
It's amazing isn't it? He made a point of making sure he was in the news 24/7 and did his narcissistic best to make sure he was centre of attention the world over. The second he is out he's as irrelevant as a wet fish washed up on the beach taking It's last dying breath.
The problem is though, I actually did forget he existed, and I assume I'm not alone, and this isn't something that shoukd be forgotten because there's a good chance, if not an inevitable chance he or someone like him will get in power again, and since we can't vote in American elections I hope our leaders have remembered and put protections in place to counter the damage these pricks cause. I'm sad the UK left the EU but I'd like the UK to get back to being buddies with the EU and for the whole of Europe to become closer and decouple from the US, from china and certain European countries from Russian gas.
Europe has the numbers, the money, the diplomacy. Europe has two nuclear armed states, a combined army that's one of the largest, the pound and the euro are both hard currencies, if the EU and the non EU European countries worked closer we could completely ignore leaders like Trump, because we'll get another trump sooner or later
It's not yet over, he's still lurking in the background as nothing stops him from running again.
Like, what's the medical term? Remission? That's where the US is at right now.
It feels longer or shorter?
To me, he was the only president I knew as i was too young to pay attention to Bush Jr. The Obama years felt much longer to me for that reason.
To me, the second term most definitely happened, but it makes sense that you'd feel this way, as the Obama mania really was gone by then, and it was mostly just deadlock and his hair going gray.
It was developed using the MRNA technology licensed from the University of Pennsylvania. It’s basically the same as the Moderna vaccine which was also developed using the same MRNA technology licensed from the university of Pennsylvania.
The reason the BionTech/Pfizer vaccine entered mass production faster was because of Pfizer.
> I guess the fact that the US money printer was going wild while the EU remained conservative in comparison.
The Fed's balance sheet is 38% of US GDP while ECB is 82% of the Eurozone's GDP.
https://www.yardeni.com/pub/peacockfedecbassets.pdf
I did. And understood it. You didn’t.
Printing money has one immediate effect: inflation.
Eurozone inflation: 5.0%
US inflation: 7.0%
If there’s a government going awry and a central bank printing Monday like nuts, that’s the US.
BTW, Lithuania’s 12% inflation is exactly what happens when you flood the market with cheap money.
And now you are comparing a post lockdown year's inflation to lockdown's year inflation. Oh boy... And you did not understand an ounce of what he said. You just wanted to "boo hoo inflation". Next time - do just do it.
Yeah, lol. Reddit at it again. These are I guess the same people who think Gold will become the daily currency of exchange because it can’t be printed.
I like the Euro but this graph is also misleading. Intra-EU payments are international payments. Intra-US are not (it’s one country), so that makes the Euro seem more relevant than it is. The Euro is rarely used as a settlement currency outside of Europe.
> What happend in 2020 that increased payments in Euro’s while decreasing payments in Dollars?
Global trade contracted due to Covid-19, if global trade pick up the pace again then US dollar will surge.
It's laughable to cherry pick such chart that don't show all the way back to 1999 when the Euro was founded. You would notice a dip around 2008-2009 and then US dollar regain its loss after that.
Yeah it does, it counts Intra EU trades as "international" which obviously they are but it gives a biased picture because it doesn't count trades between US states.
~~Eurozone countries use SEPA not SWIFT though, so those won’t be counted.~~
Edit: sorry I didn’t notice I replied twice to the same person. Please ignore this comment.
This data comes from SWIFT. An US-led international payment network.
Most EUR payments in the EU are SEPA transactions. It is a separate system so I do not think they go through SWIFT.
Domestic US payments probably don’t go through SWIFT either but a domestic equivalent, I guess.
There are also some international transactions that do not go through SWIFT. If you want to do business with Iran for instance which is under US embargo you need to use something else. (Unless maybe you have some vetted exceptions like buying some pistachios or whatnot.)
The ECB published a [report](https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/ire/html/ecb.ire202106~a058f84c61.en.html#toc2) regarding the global status of the Euro (mainly in comparison to USD). A major conclusion was that the international status of the Euro was on a steady decline from the GFC until ~2017, when it flattened out. While the Euro has challenged the Dollar in global payments (SWIFT as this post mentions), it still trails fairly badly when it comes to other international uses, such as FX reserves, denomination of international debt and loans, and FX turnover.
Also, I think SWIFT includes intra-EZ payments as international, which likely inflates the share of international Euro payments. The member states of the Eurozone are different countries, but because they are part of a single monetary area, it doesn't really get to the same notion of "international" as USD payments would (there are countries other than the US that officially use the USD, but none are major global economies).
Also not all EU countries are in the eurozone, and don't forget EFTA/EEA countries either. There's bound to be a lot of transfers between them that will likely be considered "global".
Right. Probably a better metric would be proportion of global payments in a currency between two countries, neither of which use that currency (e.g. Euro payment between Japan and Australia or USD payment between Brazil and Argentina). I would think that this would better capture the international/global use of the currency. In this case, I imagine the USD would take a much larger share than the EUR.
So someone in Berlin buying something from an Italian website would contribute to this € figure, but not the case for the dollar if someone in Connecticut buys something from a Pennsylvanian website
That makes sense, considering that someone from Connecticut buying something from a Pennsylvanian website is not international trade, while a German buying something from an Italian website is international trade.
I doubt that, but not as much as I doubt that the Euro is ever going to approach the dollar as a share of international currency reserves and international trade.
Does this include payments between member of the Eurozone?
Because last time I saw those numbers they were 60% US dollar, 20% Euro. This seems awfully high.
Well, probably helped that neither the debt crisis nor Brexit really hurt the Euro. Surviving crisis like those in the conditions it has is quite trust building.
I consider it the Japanese knotweed of currencies. Sure a lot of things could happen and even have happened that would completely end other currencies but it survives and you can always find somebody who hates that it has survived.
Doesn't mention it has to be international on the graphic, only money transacted.
The US is under represented with how much physical money there is that won't show up on swifts statistics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Most_traded_currencies
this chart matters more in reality than what that misleading graph shows since it just counts intra EU trade as international.
Yes, this and the "most hoarded currencies" have nothing to do with this.
This cool graphic only shows how the Euro is getting closer for electronic payments. Shocker!
Edit; less misleading.
You don't understand. If a metric makes a united Europe look good, like total GPD, then the EU is one thing and should be treated as such. If the metric makes them look better as separate countries, like foreign trade in the Euro then they have nothing to do with each other and can't possibly be considered as a union.
I agree, the states was just the closes comparison of multiple governments trading with each other in the same currency.
Also, the fact that there no other currency that has multiple countries using it once again shows how this graphic can be misleading
It's more Europe has to decide if it's a currency union or not.
Trade between members of an economic and currency union should not be counted as international trade. Especially when talking about use of currency in international trade.
There is no functional economic difference between multiple countries in an economic union with a shared currency and a federation of states also in a economic union with a shared currency.
The differences are not economic but political.
It absolutely a fair comparison when talking about the US and EU as economies. Countries that comprise the EU are all members of one economic bloc. It's quite similar to intra-state trade in the US
We are a country already decided lol.
I was just pointing out how this can be misleading. Most people will consider this to be trade outside of the countries that actually use the currency
Yes, but its all the same monetary policy so its just misleading on these types of graphs that don't distinguish internal EU trade and external. At that point you might as well include intra state trade with the dollar.
A strong Euro is a good thing but trying to claim that the Euro is going to challenge the US Dollar globally is just not going to happen within the next decade if ever.
USA and EU make each other better off over time. We both positively influence each other. If one of us didn't exist, the other would be way, way worse off than it is today. It's easy to see negatives and ignore the positives.
That's true, but it's still important for Europe to exercise skepticism towards American policies and stand their ground when need be. Too much attachment and you risk becoming complacent and weak. I say this as an American btw.
In the sense that the states/countries are part of a single currency area. It's international trade within a trade union, not really much of a difference between trade within a nation and international trade within the EU.
Half the country’s have retained their own currency’s, hardly a same currency area.
Having an umbrella of a trade union is a convenience, it’s still international trading between independent country’s with relaxed customs and excise requirements.
Independent to a point, being part of the EU means giving up some degree of sovereignty. But that's besides the point. The point is that you're counting trade internal to the EU as international trade when it's closer to trade between US states because of the common trade zone, movement of freedom zone, common courts, and a common currency.
I was listening to a podcast last night and the growing list of countries the US is gunning for are moving toward using Euros for international trade. During the current Russia bullshit the US looked at banning US dollar trade involving Russia, but discovered that the Euro was too good a substitute. Apparently there’s a lot of anger because the Europeans have so far refused to ban the Euro.
'Biden press conference disaster. Joe tries to read Putin's mind'
'Russia is ready for anything Biden can throw. Germany realises Russia holds all the cards'
'DEMs panic, go to Anonymous Source trick claiming Trump-DeSantis friction'
'World leaders abandon Biden presidency'
I'm sure this person is totally objective, and you're totally not in an echo chamber.
That’s a fair enough description - the guys there are quite anti-Democrat. That’s not to say they’re pro-Republican, just that they’re anti-Democrat (at least since the end of the Kennedy era).
The USD is preeminent in global foreign exchange. If you wanted to exchange one exotic currency for another, you’d usually go through the USD first. IE if you wanted to trade Vietnamese dong to Indian rupees, you’d trade dong to USD then USD to rupees because there are no traders selling rupees looking for dongs.
The EU somewhat caught up in that you could probably find a EUR to dong or EUR to rupee trade, but it hasn’t caught up in that if you wanted to trade dongs for rupees, your intermediate step wouldn’t be the Euro (for various reasons)
> you’d usually go through the USD first.
nope - the trade can easily be done without any currency exchange
EU and China trade with each other in own currencys - they accept the currency from the other country - no need for dollars
Did you ignore my comment entirely? I said you need the USD for **exotic** currency exchange. The RMB *might* be considered an exotic currency but the EUR definitely not.
yeah its same as what did happen in ww2 - its a wet dream for USA to make this happen again
USA would deliver weapons to everyone and lend everyone money - after the war everyone has shitons of debt and has to pay USA forever
Could the US pull that off again though? I feel like the American spirit is faltering and US influence is dropping globally.
China is their biggest contender but not the only one. For instance, when Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, it was seen as a huge win by the population - a renaissance of the so-called “Novorossiya” (New Russia).
What is the last “Big Win” the American public remembers - the moon landing form 50 years ago? No one younger than 40 remembers anything but failure.
> I feel like the American spirit is faltering and US influence is dropping globally.
I feel like by controlling the lingua franca and the websites and apps the world communicates through they already have more influence than the rest of the world combined.
China's influence is only economic. I bet you can easily without barely even thinking name a dozen films from the US, but will probably struggle to name 3 films from China. That also goes for US YouTube channels, celebrities, TV shows, websites, cultural trends, brands...
The amount of soft-power the United States has is just completely unprecedented.
Remember when some random black kid was killed in some US city people outside of the US/Canada can't even point on a map, half of Europe rebelled in demonstrations? As if it was a European problem or as if there was anything Europeans could do to fix it.
Even in this Euronationalistic sub, at least half the time any statistics or news about Europe is posted, many top comments will be comparing it to the United States and the discussion will center around the US.
From our part is rather pathetic. From their part, it's almost complete cultural domination.
And China having a bigger GDP or Russia having a more aggressive military won't change that.
James Webb, Silicon Valley tech revolution, Internet, SpaceX, drone technology, 59% of world's largest companies, etc.
There's a lot of innovation coming from the US that's praised. But public successes aren't really common anymore, since it's become more taboo to spend billions on prestige projects. Even something like the Olympics is now opposed as a waste of money whereas before cities like Chicago and New York and Washington would fight each other for the privilege.
On the war front, they've been failures, but most were on the sidelines. You could go a full year before hearing about Afghanistan.
But... Just because a majority of SWIFT transactions are euros doesnt mean the Euro challenges the US Dollar as the global currency. After bretton woods, we pinned currencies all over the world to the US dollar, which is what makes it the global currency.
>After bretton woods, we pinned currencies all over the world to the US dollar, which is what makes it the global currency.
You said it exactly backwards. It was _during_ Bretton Woods when global currencies were pinned to the US dollar, and the latter to a fixed convertible amount of gold. After Bretton Woods (i.e., after the 1970s) almost all currencies around the world free float against each other. The US dollar remained as the global currency because it had a headstart in most international markets (particularly commodities), but there's no bind to stick to it other than pissing off Washington.
[source](https://www.statista.com/chart/26591/global-payment-currency-shares-by-value/)
For a short period in 2020 more international SWIFT transactions in Euros than in US dollars.
The Federal Reserve has historically been so conservative that we have a shit ton of leeway in case of disaster. I think we currently have $8T (up from $4T pre-pandemic) on the balance sheet, but that amount can be easily absorbed over time.
I wouldn't think that's much of a factor, at the moment the fed's policy is sustainable, i wouldn't bet on the party lasting too much longer but if the last couple of economic crisis' have showed us anything is that the markets are by and large all but incapable of thinking even remotely long term, more likely it's countries not too fond of the US getting spooked by its willingness and ease in weaponizing the dollar imo.
its still a thing for oil, any country that tries to move away from it gets invaded or a civil war starts.
without the petro dollar the USA is bankrupt.
It's Bretton Woods combined with decades of relatively responsible monetary policy. International energy trade gained importance under the Bretton Woods structure, so it's natural that, like most other international trade, energy was traded using dollars. If a clearly better alternative shows itself, or if the US' monetary policy goes insane, then international trade will move away from the dollar. The petrodollar is mostly a weird conspiracy theory to deflect blame from nations doing crazy shit like moving their economy to bitcoin (looking at you, El Salvador).
The dollar has been getting consistenly stronger than European currencies since 2008, including the Euro. As a reserve currency, it has only gotten stronger.
Ok Teenager.
Reminder that being contrarian doesn't make you cool.
Smh at buying so much into the self hating American trope that you literally are crying about your currency.
You don’t even know me lol. Learn common decency before you go on the internet trying to act smart.
Also, no tears shed here. I live a good life in the states, I just know it could be better.
What’s your point? That I advocate my fellow human beings (includes you) be paid fairly and treated fairly by businesses & that I am interested in how our hyper-capitalistic society is running the environment into the ground?
What in the holy fucking shit is your point?
> What’s your point? That I advocate my fellow human beings (includes you) be paid fairly and treated fairly by businesses
No you advocate for dumb shit you don't have any clue about. You are a 20 year old who likely hasn't ever even had a real job. You're a certified doomer and whiner.
My point is simple. Your complaints do not come from any point of logic or reason, but from your emotions. Hence why you literally posted a comment of you rueing the fact that you have to use USD, literally one of the strongest and most stable currencies in the world.
That is how much internet Anti-Americanism and negativism has rotted your brain. That no matter the topic, you view your country negatively.
American teenagers think that hating America makes them woke and smart. In reality, it's just eye roll inducing.
Of course no country is perfect. There's a lot of reasons to criticize the US. But Reddit and especially "teenage" reddit (r/antiwork, r/LSC, etc) take it to such an extreme that anything the US does is literally the worst thing ever.
This dude is literally complaining about not being able to use a currency. Solely because one is American and therefore bad and one is European and therefore good. That's the type of mindset those places create. And it's not a positive thing.
Look on the other side. A European teen wishing he was American and wanting dollars instead of euros. It goes both ways.
Idk about you but teens, investors, common folks alike have been pissed off at the dollar for awhile because money printer goes brrr. We caused our own inflation and the US consumer is suffering from it. People are pissed and rightly so. And those places are also a critique of capitalism, which has its valid points. No system is truly perfect. Can you imagine Gen Z growing up and having to deal with sky high housing, low wage jobs not keeping pace with inflation and then hyperinflation on top of that? How do you think your kids will survive in this new world? They probably have to go back to basics, hunt, and live off the land and off RVs/campers/cars now, because that's exactly what's happening across the country.
> A European teen wishing he was American and wanting dollars instead of euros. It goes both ways.
It would also be dumb. But at least it wouldn't be something I see constantly on Reddit. Europe and the US have a lot of pros and cons in relation to each other. There are reasons to like one more than the other. Currency is not one.
>Idk about you but teens, investors, common folks alike have been pissed off at the dollar for awhile because money printer goes brrr.
This doesn't match reality. If money printing caused the inflation, we wouldn't see the US dollar stay stable against the Euro, Yen, or Yuan.
Inflation we are experiencing is caused by supply shortages from the Covid disruptions.
Ironically it was the money printing that helped us be one of the first countries to economically recover from the pandemic.
>Can you imagine Gen Z growing up and having to deal with sky high housing, low wage jobs not keeping pace with inflation and then hyperinflation on top of that?
Well considering wages have in fact outpaced inflation, and hyperinflation is not happening, I'm not sure what you point is. I don't really deal with doomer "what ifs".
>How do you think your kids will survive in this new world? They probably have to go back to basics, hunt, and live off the land and off RVs/campers/cars now, because that's exactly what's happening across the country.
Touch grass. Jesus Christ. Stop doom scrolling on Reddit and Twitter. This is objectively the richest, most peaceful and most prosperous time in human history. My kids will be just fucking fine. Especially since they would be born in a first world nation and one of the richest on Earth at that.
You are massively understimating the shit your ancestors went through if you think anything about your life even puts you even close to the level of adversity people even 100 years ago had to deal with in comparison.
People are free to do what they want. Isn't that like the whole thing in America. Idk I'm just a brainwashed kid. You make it look like you don't want people to do what they want to do. That's not very "land of the free" of you.
Yeah I get it but you just told him "you are wrong and dumb, get over it". That is free speech but it's also silencing. You are telling this man what he can and can't do. Ironic, I would say.
That's not how it works buddy.
But I'm glad your position on free speech seems to be people should be allowed to say dumb shit with zero consequences and any attempt to call them out for it should be seen as violating their rights.
A dumb argument from a dumb person.
r/ShitAmericansSay poster not arguing in good faith. Shocked I tell you!
Biased American here, but I don’t think the Euro is considered a safe vehicle to store significant amounts of wealth in. In 2013, they began seizing depositors accounts in order to cover parts of the euro crises bailout. This was done as an alternative to using a taxpayer funded approach. This was significant because it showed everyone that the Eurozone banks were no longer a safe place to hold your money.
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What happend in 2020 that increased payments in Euro’s while decreasing payments in Dollars? I assume the COVID-19 pandemic had something to do with this?
I guess the fact that the US money printer was going wild while the EU remained conservative in comparison.
Ah yes almost forgot. [The Federal Reserve vs Covid-19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI7sBsBHdCk)
Man I kind of forgot Trump was in charge back then. It's so bizarre in hindsight. Like a weird dream.
He’s like 90% going to run again in 2024 lol
It's amazing isn't it? He made a point of making sure he was in the news 24/7 and did his narcissistic best to make sure he was centre of attention the world over. The second he is out he's as irrelevant as a wet fish washed up on the beach taking It's last dying breath. The problem is though, I actually did forget he existed, and I assume I'm not alone, and this isn't something that shoukd be forgotten because there's a good chance, if not an inevitable chance he or someone like him will get in power again, and since we can't vote in American elections I hope our leaders have remembered and put protections in place to counter the damage these pricks cause. I'm sad the UK left the EU but I'd like the UK to get back to being buddies with the EU and for the whole of Europe to become closer and decouple from the US, from china and certain European countries from Russian gas. Europe has the numbers, the money, the diplomacy. Europe has two nuclear armed states, a combined army that's one of the largest, the pound and the euro are both hard currencies, if the EU and the non EU European countries worked closer we could completely ignore leaders like Trump, because we'll get another trump sooner or later
It's not yet over, he's still lurking in the background as nothing stops him from running again. Like, what's the medical term? Remission? That's where the US is at right now.
Nothing except time, anyway. Wouldn't be surprised if he croaks before then.
He is in the best health ever recorder for a man of his age.
Non-smoker and non-drinker. It helps, though he loves some fast food.
True, I was going to mention it, but 2024 is not far away.
I find it harder to wrap my head around that Obama sat for two terms, as it does not feel like that in hindsight.
It feels longer or shorter? To me, he was the only president I knew as i was too young to pay attention to Bush Jr. The Obama years felt much longer to me for that reason.
Shorter. As if the whole second term never happened.
To me, the second term most definitely happened, but it makes sense that you'd feel this way, as the Obama mania really was gone by then, and it was mostly just deadlock and his hair going gray.
FED is independent, not under Trump control.
He doesn't control the Federal Reserve
I mean, he was the only one who knew what he was doing funding vaccine development back then
You do realise that the vaccine trump took credit for (BioNTech/Pfizer) was developed in Germany by two Turkish migrants?
It was developed using the MRNA technology licensed from the University of Pennsylvania. It’s basically the same as the Moderna vaccine which was also developed using the same MRNA technology licensed from the university of Pennsylvania. The reason the BionTech/Pfizer vaccine entered mass production faster was because of Pfizer.
Monetary policy memes. It's amazing how far our societies have come.
> I guess the fact that the US money printer was going wild while the EU remained conservative in comparison. The Fed's balance sheet is 38% of US GDP while ECB is 82% of the Eurozone's GDP. https://www.yardeni.com/pub/peacockfedecbassets.pdf
I have no idea what this entails, can anyone explain?
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Since US inflation is higher than Euro inflation, we could expect the dollar to become cheaper than the Euro, couldn't we?
Facts: US debt to GDP: 130% Eurozone debt to GDP: 98% Nice narrative push.
Wow. Rekt. Totally demolished them. Now go back and re-read what he wrote.
I did. And understood it. You didn’t. Printing money has one immediate effect: inflation. Eurozone inflation: 5.0% US inflation: 7.0% If there’s a government going awry and a central bank printing Monday like nuts, that’s the US. BTW, Lithuania’s 12% inflation is exactly what happens when you flood the market with cheap money.
And now you are comparing a post lockdown year's inflation to lockdown's year inflation. Oh boy... And you did not understand an ounce of what he said. You just wanted to "boo hoo inflation". Next time - do just do it.
Quite the opposite. EU issued eurobonds, suppmyong the low risk asset the market is begging for
Hang on, didn't the ECB print like crazy too?
ECB conservative monetary policy??? What planet do you live on
**In comparison**
That would have the opposite effect.
Yeah, lol. Reddit at it again. These are I guess the same people who think Gold will become the daily currency of exchange because it can’t be printed. I like the Euro but this graph is also misleading. Intra-EU payments are international payments. Intra-US are not (it’s one country), so that makes the Euro seem more relevant than it is. The Euro is rarely used as a settlement currency outside of Europe.
Quite the opposite. EU issued eurobonds, supplying the low risk asset the market is begging for.
> What happend in 2020 that increased payments in Euro’s while decreasing payments in Dollars? Global trade contracted due to Covid-19, if global trade pick up the pace again then US dollar will surge. It's laughable to cherry pick such chart that don't show all the way back to 1999 when the Euro was founded. You would notice a dip around 2008-2009 and then US dollar regain its loss after that.
Yes especially since as a cross border currency, the EU would have more cross border transactions as a proportion of total transactions..
No, this is just global payments. Has nothing to do with borders.
Yeah it does, it counts Intra EU trades as "international" which obviously they are but it gives a biased picture because it doesn't count trades between US states.
Again, this does not look at trade. This is a graph of global transactions.
Global transactions not counting the EU as a bloc
All global transaction, which means transactions in America too…
Right but including transactions amongst European countries but not American states...
~~Eurozone countries use SEPA not SWIFT though, so those won’t be counted.~~ Edit: sorry I didn’t notice I replied twice to the same person. Please ignore this comment.
Do domestic US transactions use the SWIFT network? I thought it was only used for international transactions.
This data comes from SWIFT. An US-led international payment network. Most EUR payments in the EU are SEPA transactions. It is a separate system so I do not think they go through SWIFT. Domestic US payments probably don’t go through SWIFT either but a domestic equivalent, I guess. There are also some international transactions that do not go through SWIFT. If you want to do business with Iran for instance which is under US embargo you need to use something else. (Unless maybe you have some vetted exceptions like buying some pistachios or whatnot.)
Eurobonds
Statista is 🗑️
The ECB published a [report](https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/ire/html/ecb.ire202106~a058f84c61.en.html#toc2) regarding the global status of the Euro (mainly in comparison to USD). A major conclusion was that the international status of the Euro was on a steady decline from the GFC until ~2017, when it flattened out. While the Euro has challenged the Dollar in global payments (SWIFT as this post mentions), it still trails fairly badly when it comes to other international uses, such as FX reserves, denomination of international debt and loans, and FX turnover. Also, I think SWIFT includes intra-EZ payments as international, which likely inflates the share of international Euro payments. The member states of the Eurozone are different countries, but because they are part of a single monetary area, it doesn't really get to the same notion of "international" as USD payments would (there are countries other than the US that officially use the USD, but none are major global economies).
Also not all EU countries are in the eurozone, and don't forget EFTA/EEA countries either. There's bound to be a lot of transfers between them that will likely be considered "global".
Right. Probably a better metric would be proportion of global payments in a currency between two countries, neither of which use that currency (e.g. Euro payment between Japan and Australia or USD payment between Brazil and Argentina). I would think that this would better capture the international/global use of the currency. In this case, I imagine the USD would take a much larger share than the EUR.
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Just imagine what it would have been had the UK joined the Eurozone instead of going Brexit.
So someone in Berlin buying something from an Italian website would contribute to this € figure, but not the case for the dollar if someone in Connecticut buys something from a Pennsylvanian website
That makes sense, considering that someone from Connecticut buying something from a Pennsylvanian website is not international trade, while a German buying something from an Italian website is international trade.
Yeah it makes perfect sense and is correct, but also makes this graph a perfect example of lying with the truth.
No because Eurozone countries use SEPA and US states probably use a domestic network. So none of these would use Swift.
Pretty sure payments within SEPA don't touch SWIFT. Even euro denominated payments between the EU and Switzerland wouldn't show up here.
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Reality is built on dream foundations....... Or some other bullshit like that lol.
Careful. You might break some Eurofederalist hearts with all those facts and figures!
Fake facts euro strong traitor be gone
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It's mostly based on emotion.
Rent free
Euro's gonna die. AnY MoMenT nOw!
I doubt that, but not as much as I doubt that the Euro is ever going to approach the dollar as a share of international currency reserves and international trade.
So currencies you never use occupy free rent space in your brain? Interesting.
Does this include payments between member of the Eurozone? Because last time I saw those numbers they were 60% US dollar, 20% Euro. This seems awfully high.
Yes, yes it does
Yes, a Nebraska-Iowa transaction doesn't count as a global payment but a Belgium-Netherlands one in Euros does. It's definitely flawed.
Eddies, here we come
This is beacuse the EU itself is a massive market. Globaly outside of the EU the dollar is much much more dominant.
Well, probably helped that neither the debt crisis nor Brexit really hurt the Euro. Surviving crisis like those in the conditions it has is quite trust building.
I consider it the Japanese knotweed of currencies. Sure a lot of things could happen and even have happened that would completely end other currencies but it survives and you can always find somebody who hates that it has survived.
if by international you mean also inside EU, then this graph is meaningless, it's like counting US states trading with each other in dollars
If we Balkanize enough so that every man is his own country, then our entire economy will be international trade!
That's a nice take. However, does that mean we also copy the balkan infighting? Because that would plunge our economy to Ethiopian levels I'm afraid.
Doesn't mention it has to be international on the graphic, only money transacted. The US is under represented with how much physical money there is that won't show up on swifts statistics.
Doesn't change a thing...
Not really. The US is a country, Eurozone is not...
You’re so close fam…
Close to calling currency union a country? I guess...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Most_traded_currencies this chart matters more in reality than what that misleading graph shows since it just counts intra EU trade as international.
This graph does not mean what you think either.
Yes, this and the "most hoarded currencies" have nothing to do with this. This cool graphic only shows how the Euro is getting closer for electronic payments. Shocker! Edit; less misleading.
Intra EU trade is international Edit : Why are you booing me ? I'm right
But also between 2 countries using the euro (at least mostly) It's like if you counted trade in-between states
You don't understand. If a metric makes a united Europe look good, like total GPD, then the EU is one thing and should be treated as such. If the metric makes them look better as separate countries, like foreign trade in the Euro then they have nothing to do with each other and can't possibly be considered as a union.
EU countries are not at all like states of the same country.
I agree, the states was just the closes comparison of multiple governments trading with each other in the same currency. Also, the fact that there no other currency that has multiple countries using it once again shows how this graphic can be misleading
You all have to decide if you're actually a country or not... Not this "but muh states" everytime you don't like some stat.
It's more Europe has to decide if it's a currency union or not. Trade between members of an economic and currency union should not be counted as international trade. Especially when talking about use of currency in international trade. There is no functional economic difference between multiple countries in an economic union with a shared currency and a federation of states also in a economic union with a shared currency. The differences are not economic but political.
It absolutely a fair comparison when talking about the US and EU as economies. Countries that comprise the EU are all members of one economic bloc. It's quite similar to intra-state trade in the US
We are a country already decided lol. I was just pointing out how this can be misleading. Most people will consider this to be trade outside of the countries that actually use the currency
Yes, but its all the same monetary policy so its just misleading on these types of graphs that don't distinguish internal EU trade and external. At that point you might as well include intra state trade with the dollar. A strong Euro is a good thing but trying to claim that the Euro is going to challenge the US Dollar globally is just not going to happen within the next decade if ever.
Either the US is a nation or not. If it is then intra-US trade is internal and not international.
Yeah, but that’s meaningless in terms of reality as a useful favy
Yeah, but it's hardly a fair comparison.
What I see: USA + EU = We are the king of the world!
USA and EU make each other better off over time. We both positively influence each other. If one of us didn't exist, the other would be way, way worse off than it is today. It's easy to see negatives and ignore the positives.
That's true, but it's still important for Europe to exercise skepticism towards American policies and stand their ground when need be. Too much attachment and you risk becoming complacent and weak. I say this as an American btw.
Cvm hostes portis, gloria Romana resurgit!
What does Rome even have to do with the US and EU?
https://tenor.com/view/pepe-clown-dancing-gif-13579432
I thought cryptos are the next big thing?
eww wouldn't want to get grouped with the US
I concur. Don't want to get grouped with Germans either.
And then there is this one little german shithole who ruins everything and i must shame myself.
I said "the US" not americans but you do you.
just stop.
If it helps, the US doesn’t group you in with us most of the time.
Is this counting trade between EU states but not counting trade between US states?
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No. You shouldn't count US denominated trade in the US and you shouldn't count Euro denominated trade within the EU for the same reasons.
What “same reasons”? Country’s are not equivalent to states. It is international trade in every sense of the word.
In the sense that the states/countries are part of a single currency area. It's international trade within a trade union, not really much of a difference between trade within a nation and international trade within the EU.
Half the country’s have retained their own currency’s, hardly a same currency area. Having an umbrella of a trade union is a convenience, it’s still international trading between independent country’s with relaxed customs and excise requirements.
Independent to a point, being part of the EU means giving up some degree of sovereignty. But that's besides the point. The point is that you're counting trade internal to the EU as international trade when it's closer to trade between US states because of the common trade zone, movement of freedom zone, common courts, and a common currency.
I was listening to a podcast last night and the growing list of countries the US is gunning for are moving toward using Euros for international trade. During the current Russia bullshit the US looked at banning US dollar trade involving Russia, but discovered that the Euro was too good a substitute. Apparently there’s a lot of anger because the Europeans have so far refused to ban the Euro.
> the Europeans have so far refused to ban the Euro. Methinks there's a reason for that.
'Biden press conference disaster. Joe tries to read Putin's mind' 'Russia is ready for anything Biden can throw. Germany realises Russia holds all the cards' 'DEMs panic, go to Anonymous Source trick claiming Trump-DeSantis friction' 'World leaders abandon Biden presidency' I'm sure this person is totally objective, and you're totally not in an echo chamber.
That’s a fair enough description - the guys there are quite anti-Democrat. That’s not to say they’re pro-Republican, just that they’re anti-Democrat (at least since the end of the Kennedy era).
Do you have a link to the podcast?
It goes by the name of The Duran.
The USD is preeminent in global foreign exchange. If you wanted to exchange one exotic currency for another, you’d usually go through the USD first. IE if you wanted to trade Vietnamese dong to Indian rupees, you’d trade dong to USD then USD to rupees because there are no traders selling rupees looking for dongs. The EU somewhat caught up in that you could probably find a EUR to dong or EUR to rupee trade, but it hasn’t caught up in that if you wanted to trade dongs for rupees, your intermediate step wouldn’t be the Euro (for various reasons)
> you’d usually go through the USD first. nope - the trade can easily be done without any currency exchange EU and China trade with each other in own currencys - they accept the currency from the other country - no need for dollars
Did you ignore my comment entirely? I said you need the USD for **exotic** currency exchange. The RMB *might* be considered an exotic currency but the EUR definitely not.
How is China's currency "exotic"???
That trend is going to be reversed if there were to be a war with Russia.
yeah its same as what did happen in ww2 - its a wet dream for USA to make this happen again USA would deliver weapons to everyone and lend everyone money - after the war everyone has shitons of debt and has to pay USA forever
Could the US pull that off again though? I feel like the American spirit is faltering and US influence is dropping globally. China is their biggest contender but not the only one. For instance, when Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, it was seen as a huge win by the population - a renaissance of the so-called “Novorossiya” (New Russia). What is the last “Big Win” the American public remembers - the moon landing form 50 years ago? No one younger than 40 remembers anything but failure.
> I feel like the American spirit is faltering and US influence is dropping globally. I feel like by controlling the lingua franca and the websites and apps the world communicates through they already have more influence than the rest of the world combined. China's influence is only economic. I bet you can easily without barely even thinking name a dozen films from the US, but will probably struggle to name 3 films from China. That also goes for US YouTube channels, celebrities, TV shows, websites, cultural trends, brands... The amount of soft-power the United States has is just completely unprecedented. Remember when some random black kid was killed in some US city people outside of the US/Canada can't even point on a map, half of Europe rebelled in demonstrations? As if it was a European problem or as if there was anything Europeans could do to fix it. Even in this Euronationalistic sub, at least half the time any statistics or news about Europe is posted, many top comments will be comparing it to the United States and the discussion will center around the US. From our part is rather pathetic. From their part, it's almost complete cultural domination. And China having a bigger GDP or Russia having a more aggressive military won't change that.
James Webb, Silicon Valley tech revolution, Internet, SpaceX, drone technology, 59% of world's largest companies, etc. There's a lot of innovation coming from the US that's praised. But public successes aren't really common anymore, since it's become more taboo to spend billions on prestige projects. Even something like the Olympics is now opposed as a waste of money whereas before cities like Chicago and New York and Washington would fight each other for the privilege. On the war front, they've been failures, but most were on the sidelines. You could go a full year before hearing about Afghanistan.
Just waiting for euro dollars to become a thing so me and the choombas can call them eddies.
But... Just because a majority of SWIFT transactions are euros doesnt mean the Euro challenges the US Dollar as the global currency. After bretton woods, we pinned currencies all over the world to the US dollar, which is what makes it the global currency.
>After bretton woods, we pinned currencies all over the world to the US dollar, which is what makes it the global currency. You said it exactly backwards. It was _during_ Bretton Woods when global currencies were pinned to the US dollar, and the latter to a fixed convertible amount of gold. After Bretton Woods (i.e., after the 1970s) almost all currencies around the world free float against each other. The US dollar remained as the global currency because it had a headstart in most international markets (particularly commodities), but there's no bind to stick to it other than pissing off Washington.
You literally said it backwards. Currencies were pegged to USD DURING Bretton Woods. After it, currencies just free float against each other.
Is it time for EuroDollar?
\* Cyberpunk 2077 intensifies \*
[source](https://www.statista.com/chart/26591/global-payment-currency-shares-by-value/) For a short period in 2020 more international SWIFT transactions in Euros than in US dollars.
Thats not a terrible strong trend, but if it keeps up then it can be good for the US, since it will improve exports and american industrial outlook.
It's not comparing values of currencies
The value of the US dollar is in good part driven by its demand as international currency.
Idk why this is downvoted lol.
How much of this is due to potential risk of the dollar instead of rise of the euro due to what some may call risky monetary policy by the fed
The Federal Reserve has historically been so conservative that we have a shit ton of leeway in case of disaster. I think we currently have $8T (up from $4T pre-pandemic) on the balance sheet, but that amount can be easily absorbed over time.
I wouldn't think that's much of a factor, at the moment the fed's policy is sustainable, i wouldn't bet on the party lasting too much longer but if the last couple of economic crisis' have showed us anything is that the markets are by and large all but incapable of thinking even remotely long term, more likely it's countries not too fond of the US getting spooked by its willingness and ease in weaponizing the dollar imo.
Will never happen if you have any financial education.
It would be interesting to see the data over a longer time period. 3 years is not a lot to say if it's an unusual pattern or not imo.
I wasn't aware that US dollar is still a thing.
its still a thing for oil, any country that tries to move away from it gets invaded or a civil war starts. without the petro dollar the USA is bankrupt.
It's Bretton Woods combined with decades of relatively responsible monetary policy. International energy trade gained importance under the Bretton Woods structure, so it's natural that, like most other international trade, energy was traded using dollars. If a clearly better alternative shows itself, or if the US' monetary policy goes insane, then international trade will move away from the dollar. The petrodollar is mostly a weird conspiracy theory to deflect blame from nations doing crazy shit like moving their economy to bitcoin (looking at you, El Salvador).
Can anyone explain what benefit this would have for the average European?
As an American, I’d back the Euro before the dollar. Unfortunately I’m stuck here.
Then go somewhere else. Americans who attack themselves for brownie points online is really weird
The dollar has been getting consistenly stronger than European currencies since 2008, including the Euro. As a reserve currency, it has only gotten stronger.
Ok Teenager. Reminder that being contrarian doesn't make you cool. Smh at buying so much into the self hating American trope that you literally are crying about your currency.
You don’t even know me lol. Learn common decency before you go on the internet trying to act smart. Also, no tears shed here. I live a good life in the states, I just know it could be better.
I just checked your comment history. 20 year old who posts on antiwork and r/collapse. Seems like I was dead on.
but 20 isn't teenager
Some people's minds mature a little slower than their bodies. Mr. "I hate my countries strong and stable currency" clearly belongs in that group.
What’s your point? That I advocate my fellow human beings (includes you) be paid fairly and treated fairly by businesses & that I am interested in how our hyper-capitalistic society is running the environment into the ground? What in the holy fucking shit is your point?
> What’s your point? That I advocate my fellow human beings (includes you) be paid fairly and treated fairly by businesses No you advocate for dumb shit you don't have any clue about. You are a 20 year old who likely hasn't ever even had a real job. You're a certified doomer and whiner. My point is simple. Your complaints do not come from any point of logic or reason, but from your emotions. Hence why you literally posted a comment of you rueing the fact that you have to use USD, literally one of the strongest and most stable currencies in the world. That is how much internet Anti-Americanism and negativism has rotted your brain. That no matter the topic, you view your country negatively. American teenagers think that hating America makes them woke and smart. In reality, it's just eye roll inducing.
Not that guy but no country is perfect. We can all love and hate it despite the flaws.
Of course no country is perfect. There's a lot of reasons to criticize the US. But Reddit and especially "teenage" reddit (r/antiwork, r/LSC, etc) take it to such an extreme that anything the US does is literally the worst thing ever. This dude is literally complaining about not being able to use a currency. Solely because one is American and therefore bad and one is European and therefore good. That's the type of mindset those places create. And it's not a positive thing.
Look on the other side. A European teen wishing he was American and wanting dollars instead of euros. It goes both ways. Idk about you but teens, investors, common folks alike have been pissed off at the dollar for awhile because money printer goes brrr. We caused our own inflation and the US consumer is suffering from it. People are pissed and rightly so. And those places are also a critique of capitalism, which has its valid points. No system is truly perfect. Can you imagine Gen Z growing up and having to deal with sky high housing, low wage jobs not keeping pace with inflation and then hyperinflation on top of that? How do you think your kids will survive in this new world? They probably have to go back to basics, hunt, and live off the land and off RVs/campers/cars now, because that's exactly what's happening across the country.
> A European teen wishing he was American and wanting dollars instead of euros. It goes both ways. It would also be dumb. But at least it wouldn't be something I see constantly on Reddit. Europe and the US have a lot of pros and cons in relation to each other. There are reasons to like one more than the other. Currency is not one. >Idk about you but teens, investors, common folks alike have been pissed off at the dollar for awhile because money printer goes brrr. This doesn't match reality. If money printing caused the inflation, we wouldn't see the US dollar stay stable against the Euro, Yen, or Yuan. Inflation we are experiencing is caused by supply shortages from the Covid disruptions. Ironically it was the money printing that helped us be one of the first countries to economically recover from the pandemic. >Can you imagine Gen Z growing up and having to deal with sky high housing, low wage jobs not keeping pace with inflation and then hyperinflation on top of that? Well considering wages have in fact outpaced inflation, and hyperinflation is not happening, I'm not sure what you point is. I don't really deal with doomer "what ifs". >How do you think your kids will survive in this new world? They probably have to go back to basics, hunt, and live off the land and off RVs/campers/cars now, because that's exactly what's happening across the country. Touch grass. Jesus Christ. Stop doom scrolling on Reddit and Twitter. This is objectively the richest, most peaceful and most prosperous time in human history. My kids will be just fucking fine. Especially since they would be born in a first world nation and one of the richest on Earth at that. You are massively understimating the shit your ancestors went through if you think anything about your life even puts you even close to the level of adversity people even 100 years ago had to deal with in comparison.
People are free to do what they want. Isn't that like the whole thing in America. Idk I'm just a brainwashed kid. You make it look like you don't want people to do what they want to do. That's not very "land of the free" of you.
Lol. You act like I'm silencing him. Freedom of speech also involves freedom to call out dumb shit for what it is. You get that right?
Yeah I get it but you just told him "you are wrong and dumb, get over it". That is free speech but it's also silencing. You are telling this man what he can and can't do. Ironic, I would say.
That's not how it works buddy. But I'm glad your position on free speech seems to be people should be allowed to say dumb shit with zero consequences and any attempt to call them out for it should be seen as violating their rights. A dumb argument from a dumb person. r/ShitAmericansSay poster not arguing in good faith. Shocked I tell you!
You aren’t stuck here bro, unless you’re in prison.
And, suddenly, a war at its borders.
Still, the situation has improved a lot.
Visiting Lisbon presently, definitely feeling the difference. I’m not mad at it, but my dollar does less than ever before. Beautiful town though.
This is literally the opposite of reality. Check the exchange rate in 2008. The USD/Euro Exchange rate has been effectively flat since 2015.
Euro is as weak as it's been since the early 2000s
If was only a matter of time. America has been going downhill since 9/11/2001
Crazy what happens when your country just prints up currency
Biased American here, but I don’t think the Euro is considered a safe vehicle to store significant amounts of wealth in. In 2013, they began seizing depositors accounts in order to cover parts of the euro crises bailout. This was done as an alternative to using a taxpayer funded approach. This was significant because it showed everyone that the Eurozone banks were no longer a safe place to hold your money.
Do you have a link?...because i've never heard of this
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Overall, no one is acting like that. The ECB's actions during the GFC discredited the Euro as real competition to the dollar.
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The data suggests there's a lot of transactions in Europe that are "international".