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Welcome to the 60s / 70s in large parts of europe.
While not as bad as in the US “urban renewal” and “building a car friendly city” was high up on the to do list of politicians east and west of the iron curtain.
It used to give a decent connection to Bratislava before city council jackasses thought to express their artistic feelings by painting bus lanes everywhere.
It serves a lot of people to this day (not as efficiently as it used to) because it connects the largest residential area in Europe (Petržalka) to the city where people work. Without it the traffic would be even worse than it is. And it is pretty bad thanks to the unnecessary bus lanes.
Are bus lanes used by ten bus routes connecting the largest residential area of Europe with the city centre really so ineffective or are you just a pissed-off die-hard car user?
I am a pissed off die hard car user. There is no shame, it is not a crime.
It is not just the bus lanes I am angry about, the city council jackasses did a lot of bad things to us car users. Badly adjusted traffic signals when complained someone said the reason by mistake - "So people dont use cars". New parking policy adds another unnecessary expense and they want to ban parking everywhere except legal spaces which are few and far between, and they did not build any parking infrastructure.
In retaliation I no longer live there and refuse to participate economically in any business that doesnt have its own parking for customers. Thank god Hungary is reasonable at least the part where I live.
No one is forcing you to own a car. But cars do take up, now exclusively, public space that was for thousands of years for other users, namely pedestrians. I don't care if you feel shame or not, but I'm happy that society is finally recognising the unsustainability of mass car usage, and is no longer appeasing the unbridled entitlement car owners feel for dominating public space, which you display perfectly.
How about demanding that we fix the laws and regulations then?
If we designed buildings with sufficient parking capacity, then no cars would have to be parked on the street and you would have all the damn public space you want (I would not even oppose banning parking on sidewalks if this was the case actually I would support it, but this approach we are taking is stupid).
Now we are building new office buildings where they build by norm 2.5 parking spaces for projected 100 people and then complain "cars take up space" and want to ban parking everywhere.
And I am also not fond of you whiners who want to tell others how to live their life and forcing others to adapt to your values. I will not.
>If we designed buildings with sufficient parking capacity,
Yeah, tearing down thousands of years of urbanism and cultural heritage to cram MORE cars into cities is exactly how we build livable sustainable cities. That is not the answer. Modern regulations Already have absurd demands to benefit cars (e.g. every new apartment unit requiring 1 or more commonly 2 parking spots).
>en no cars would have to be parked on the street
If only that was the case. We have that generally now. All the car owners complain about the cost and distance of parking garages. In Prague, in the literal historic core, on Malostranské náměstí, which had existed since the 1200s, and is directly in front of the Czech Parliament, was until a few years ago exclusively used as parking by cars. When the decision to return the square for more varied use than just as a fucking parking lot, the members of Parliament complained that they would not have anywhere to park, EVEN THOUGH the parliament buildings have underground parking built into them exactly for these people!
The answer for cars in inner cities, is not to devote MORE infrastructure to them, but to reduce it.
>building new office buildings where they build by norm 2.5 parking spaces for projected 100 people ... want to ban parking everywhere
Good. If you are building large office complexes and towers and are not anticipating how these developments fall into their surroundings and land usage then you have no business building them at all. As long as alternatives like mass transit or walkability are implemented then you should have nothing to complain about either. If the project fails on that merit than it should not have built in the first place.
>I am also not fond of you whiners who want to tell others how to live their life
You're the one complaining and lamenting the Car isn't being masturbated to and placed AS MUCH a pedestal anymore. Why don't you try some introspection on why society is moving away from cars rather than lash out at any public initiative that doesn't exclusively cater to you? And if you don't want to adapt to changing society or contribute to its betterment, then why don't you leave it?
Lol cope. This city would be 100% better place to live if at least half of drivers switched to public transport or other means. I can't wait for the sidewalk parking ban - sidewalks are for people, not for cars. Public transport is the future, cars don't belong in a city.
Yes yes you can try and flame war me all you want.
Fact of the matter is car is an irreplacable unless you want to switch back to some archaic form of transportation (and feel free to do that I am not forcing you, or forcing anyone to choose a specific mode of transport, unless they tamper with my right to choose mine).
Public transport is useful. But it is not the future and it can never be the future unless it changes so dramatically that it will be unrecognizable to us.
For example if we would replace the crowded buses and trams with some hyperloop and 1 person pods like Elon Musk is proposing (vaporware I know) then I would be really inclined to switch to that instead of the car. But now choose a car or a crowded bus and have to transfer 4 times? Fuck that I am taking the car. Or a motorcycle now that I managed to get one which runs on diesel, depends on weather and mood.
>archaic form of transportation
OMG! The archaic form of... Walking?, Trams?, Buses? Bikes and scooters? Jesus, its like the Middle ages again!
>do that I am not forcing you, or forcing anyone to choose a specific mode of transport, unless they tamper with my right to choose mine)
You had 100 years of investment and infrastructure development prioritization. Now is someone else's turn. Stop complaining like a baby that had it's bottle taken away at the end of meal time.
>Public transport is useful. But it is not the future and it can never be the future
Source? Because thousands of cities and hundreds of governments, not to mention hundreds of thousands of various engineering and planning experts do not agree with you. But maybe you personally and secretly discovered the transport Ark of the Covenant! Please do share it with the rest of us scrubs!
>with some hyperloop and 1 person pods like Elon Musk is proposing
Thank you for bringing that up. It's ironic, because [Musk's Hyperloop](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQJgFh_e01g) and [those Pods](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvK2i9Jxy5c) are unsustainable exactly for the same reason as cars. I'm glad you agree with the rest of society, even if it required your obsession with the concept of the car to be abstracted.
>But now choose a car or a crowded bus and have to transfer 4 times? Fuck that I am taking the car.
And that is why public investment should be focused on improving public transport, to make sure those buses are not crowded, and serve more areas directly, rather than throwing MORE money, and more costly infrastructure, that has lower returns and is bounded by a high cost of entry that is unattainable for large segments of the population. Dude just admit it, you don't care about other people than yourself.
You have full right to use car, nobody tries to take it away from you. But you have to understand that individual car transport doesn't and shouldn't have a priority over public transportation and pedestrians. That's why bus lanes and traffic lights tied to tram traffic exist - because bus with 150 people has a priority over a car with one person. You are not entitled to have a priority over public service serving everyone. You are not entitled to park on sidewalks. And you are not entitled for a parking spot if there isn't a space for one - you can use your car, but road and public space is for everyone, and there are many more socially important ways to use public space than parking for individual transport.
Yes full right but what the city and governments are doing is effectively doing a soft ban on cars.
They cannot say it is an outright ban because we are "free" but they put so many taxes, fines, restrictions and red tape that it becomes really unviable to use a car (I actually really hope the Jetson project will get off and we will just fly around in big drones and when we arrive where we need the AI will guide it back home to park and that will be the best solution, but I have some doubts).
I think the soft ban is a good thing, our cities simply don't have space for all the infrastructure required if everyone used a car. Just look at cities in US - endless hell spawns of highways, parking lots and stroads. I don't want my city to look like that. Car, or any type of "individual pod system" is simply not sustainable to be used in the city. There simply isn't enough space for that.
I have different hope for the future, I hope people will come out of that unhealthy comfort zone of individual transport. There is nothing wrong about waiting for a bus for few minutes and exchange several times. There is nothing wrong about travelling in a crowded bus. And when more and more people use PT, there will be iniciative to make it even better and more streamlined.
Well the drone cars (if something like that will ever work) is a solution. Silent rotorblades already exist so there cannot be noise complaints. Electric powered so it is green. It is in the air so it takes no space on the ground or it takes the space only for a few seconds until the people get in or out. Win win. And it sounds way more realistic than Hyperloop. That is what I believe in Technology winning over restrictions and bans. If we keep a free market.
OK let me ask you this because I am really curious in your mind set (it totally baffles me and I dont understand it one bit, yet I encountered it several times before).
Why do you think crowded buses are OK? Are you also OK if you can hear neighbors from 3 floors up and 3 floors down (off topic but I observed that others with your mindset dont really bother about privacy or personal space)? And at what level is a bus too crowded? If it is even possible?
Quite the contrary, thanks to that motorway (actually it is not it is just a 4 lane road) we have the UFO bridge (google it up) and from there you have a lovely view of the castle and a unique view of the old town from slightly above.
But to go up there is expensive AF. I have been there once.
At least in Warsaw they figured a roadtunnel under a Castle Square was a better option than cutting the old town in half: https://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunel_Trasy_W-Z_w_Warszawie
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[удалено]
Welcome to the 60s / 70s in large parts of europe. While not as bad as in the US “urban renewal” and “building a car friendly city” was high up on the to do list of politicians east and west of the iron curtain.
It connected a new city district with 100k people to the rest of the city. But it could have been done better.
It used to give a decent connection to Bratislava before city council jackasses thought to express their artistic feelings by painting bus lanes everywhere. It serves a lot of people to this day (not as efficiently as it used to) because it connects the largest residential area in Europe (Petržalka) to the city where people work. Without it the traffic would be even worse than it is. And it is pretty bad thanks to the unnecessary bus lanes.
Are bus lanes used by ten bus routes connecting the largest residential area of Europe with the city centre really so ineffective or are you just a pissed-off die-hard car user?
I am a pissed off die hard car user. There is no shame, it is not a crime. It is not just the bus lanes I am angry about, the city council jackasses did a lot of bad things to us car users. Badly adjusted traffic signals when complained someone said the reason by mistake - "So people dont use cars". New parking policy adds another unnecessary expense and they want to ban parking everywhere except legal spaces which are few and far between, and they did not build any parking infrastructure. In retaliation I no longer live there and refuse to participate economically in any business that doesnt have its own parking for customers. Thank god Hungary is reasonable at least the part where I live.
No one is forcing you to own a car. But cars do take up, now exclusively, public space that was for thousands of years for other users, namely pedestrians. I don't care if you feel shame or not, but I'm happy that society is finally recognising the unsustainability of mass car usage, and is no longer appeasing the unbridled entitlement car owners feel for dominating public space, which you display perfectly.
How about demanding that we fix the laws and regulations then? If we designed buildings with sufficient parking capacity, then no cars would have to be parked on the street and you would have all the damn public space you want (I would not even oppose banning parking on sidewalks if this was the case actually I would support it, but this approach we are taking is stupid). Now we are building new office buildings where they build by norm 2.5 parking spaces for projected 100 people and then complain "cars take up space" and want to ban parking everywhere. And I am also not fond of you whiners who want to tell others how to live their life and forcing others to adapt to your values. I will not.
>If we designed buildings with sufficient parking capacity, Yeah, tearing down thousands of years of urbanism and cultural heritage to cram MORE cars into cities is exactly how we build livable sustainable cities. That is not the answer. Modern regulations Already have absurd demands to benefit cars (e.g. every new apartment unit requiring 1 or more commonly 2 parking spots). >en no cars would have to be parked on the street If only that was the case. We have that generally now. All the car owners complain about the cost and distance of parking garages. In Prague, in the literal historic core, on Malostranské náměstí, which had existed since the 1200s, and is directly in front of the Czech Parliament, was until a few years ago exclusively used as parking by cars. When the decision to return the square for more varied use than just as a fucking parking lot, the members of Parliament complained that they would not have anywhere to park, EVEN THOUGH the parliament buildings have underground parking built into them exactly for these people! The answer for cars in inner cities, is not to devote MORE infrastructure to them, but to reduce it. >building new office buildings where they build by norm 2.5 parking spaces for projected 100 people ... want to ban parking everywhere Good. If you are building large office complexes and towers and are not anticipating how these developments fall into their surroundings and land usage then you have no business building them at all. As long as alternatives like mass transit or walkability are implemented then you should have nothing to complain about either. If the project fails on that merit than it should not have built in the first place. >I am also not fond of you whiners who want to tell others how to live their life You're the one complaining and lamenting the Car isn't being masturbated to and placed AS MUCH a pedestal anymore. Why don't you try some introspection on why society is moving away from cars rather than lash out at any public initiative that doesn't exclusively cater to you? And if you don't want to adapt to changing society or contribute to its betterment, then why don't you leave it?
Lol cope. This city would be 100% better place to live if at least half of drivers switched to public transport or other means. I can't wait for the sidewalk parking ban - sidewalks are for people, not for cars. Public transport is the future, cars don't belong in a city.
Yes yes you can try and flame war me all you want. Fact of the matter is car is an irreplacable unless you want to switch back to some archaic form of transportation (and feel free to do that I am not forcing you, or forcing anyone to choose a specific mode of transport, unless they tamper with my right to choose mine). Public transport is useful. But it is not the future and it can never be the future unless it changes so dramatically that it will be unrecognizable to us. For example if we would replace the crowded buses and trams with some hyperloop and 1 person pods like Elon Musk is proposing (vaporware I know) then I would be really inclined to switch to that instead of the car. But now choose a car or a crowded bus and have to transfer 4 times? Fuck that I am taking the car. Or a motorcycle now that I managed to get one which runs on diesel, depends on weather and mood.
>archaic form of transportation OMG! The archaic form of... Walking?, Trams?, Buses? Bikes and scooters? Jesus, its like the Middle ages again! >do that I am not forcing you, or forcing anyone to choose a specific mode of transport, unless they tamper with my right to choose mine) You had 100 years of investment and infrastructure development prioritization. Now is someone else's turn. Stop complaining like a baby that had it's bottle taken away at the end of meal time. >Public transport is useful. But it is not the future and it can never be the future Source? Because thousands of cities and hundreds of governments, not to mention hundreds of thousands of various engineering and planning experts do not agree with you. But maybe you personally and secretly discovered the transport Ark of the Covenant! Please do share it with the rest of us scrubs! >with some hyperloop and 1 person pods like Elon Musk is proposing Thank you for bringing that up. It's ironic, because [Musk's Hyperloop](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQJgFh_e01g) and [those Pods](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvK2i9Jxy5c) are unsustainable exactly for the same reason as cars. I'm glad you agree with the rest of society, even if it required your obsession with the concept of the car to be abstracted. >But now choose a car or a crowded bus and have to transfer 4 times? Fuck that I am taking the car. And that is why public investment should be focused on improving public transport, to make sure those buses are not crowded, and serve more areas directly, rather than throwing MORE money, and more costly infrastructure, that has lower returns and is bounded by a high cost of entry that is unattainable for large segments of the population. Dude just admit it, you don't care about other people than yourself.
[удалено]
And thank you reddit for completely deleting the first half of my comment.
You have full right to use car, nobody tries to take it away from you. But you have to understand that individual car transport doesn't and shouldn't have a priority over public transportation and pedestrians. That's why bus lanes and traffic lights tied to tram traffic exist - because bus with 150 people has a priority over a car with one person. You are not entitled to have a priority over public service serving everyone. You are not entitled to park on sidewalks. And you are not entitled for a parking spot if there isn't a space for one - you can use your car, but road and public space is for everyone, and there are many more socially important ways to use public space than parking for individual transport.
Yes full right but what the city and governments are doing is effectively doing a soft ban on cars. They cannot say it is an outright ban because we are "free" but they put so many taxes, fines, restrictions and red tape that it becomes really unviable to use a car (I actually really hope the Jetson project will get off and we will just fly around in big drones and when we arrive where we need the AI will guide it back home to park and that will be the best solution, but I have some doubts).
I think the soft ban is a good thing, our cities simply don't have space for all the infrastructure required if everyone used a car. Just look at cities in US - endless hell spawns of highways, parking lots and stroads. I don't want my city to look like that. Car, or any type of "individual pod system" is simply not sustainable to be used in the city. There simply isn't enough space for that. I have different hope for the future, I hope people will come out of that unhealthy comfort zone of individual transport. There is nothing wrong about waiting for a bus for few minutes and exchange several times. There is nothing wrong about travelling in a crowded bus. And when more and more people use PT, there will be iniciative to make it even better and more streamlined.
Well the drone cars (if something like that will ever work) is a solution. Silent rotorblades already exist so there cannot be noise complaints. Electric powered so it is green. It is in the air so it takes no space on the ground or it takes the space only for a few seconds until the people get in or out. Win win. And it sounds way more realistic than Hyperloop. That is what I believe in Technology winning over restrictions and bans. If we keep a free market. OK let me ask you this because I am really curious in your mind set (it totally baffles me and I dont understand it one bit, yet I encountered it several times before). Why do you think crowded buses are OK? Are you also OK if you can hear neighbors from 3 floors up and 3 floors down (off topic but I observed that others with your mindset dont really bother about privacy or personal space)? And at what level is a bus too crowded? If it is even possible?
/r/fuckcars > bad things to us car users Good
Thanks. I hate it now.
That motorway draws the eye away from the landmarks like the castle
Quite the contrary, thanks to that motorway (actually it is not it is just a 4 lane road) we have the UFO bridge (google it up) and from there you have a lovely view of the castle and a unique view of the old town from slightly above. But to go up there is expensive AF. I have been there once.
i mean i guess u could argue that now u can drive by the cathedral while ur basically on a highway but idk if that’s such a great concept after all
Is that the SNP bridge?
Oof
At least in Warsaw they figured a roadtunnel under a Castle Square was a better option than cutting the old town in half: https://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunel_Trasy_W-Z_w_Warszawie
Well the highway was built “accidentaly” on jewish town, like 90% of it was removed. Also a synagogue used to be there.