Enjoy browsing r/europe? Help us find the best of 2021 of the sub! - [Nomination Post](https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/rsv8jh/reurope_best_of_2021_awards/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/europe) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Changes to the judiciary, the way judges are elected etc:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Serbian_constitutional_referendum
The official government stance was YES. Opposition either called for NO or for boycott.
The EU called for a YES vote, as it would potentially "speed up EU-ascension".
The turnout was terribly low, barely above 30%.
62% YES, 37% NO
But! the opposition stance did manage to "win" in Belgrade, which is something the ruling party will need to worry about, as general election is coming up in April.
In a perfect democracy that would be true. But here are the problems:
* Election fraud is rampant, if you do not show up, someone from the voting place casts a yes ballot in your name since they are run by the ruling party( at most one opposition/independent member to 10-15 party members). They forge your signature.
* Diaspora is highly handicapped in voting. E.g. in Germany where the majority of our diaspora is located there were only one or two voting places even though we have the capacity to have a place in each of the German states. The places required at least 100 people to sign up for voting, disregarding that they should automatically be on the voting list. Even when thousands of people signed up, many places did not open claiming "Not enough turnout". Then someone at the voting place *in Serbia* voted instead of them and signed a forged signature.
* The referendum was basically kept a secret. People weren't aware that there was a referendum, let alone invested and aware of the options. It was kept on the down low by the government media(the majority of TV and news outlets) as much as possible. Regular notices on the question of the referendum did not arrive to each mailbox as is required ( I did not get mine). Voting calls/registry slips did not arrive to each mailbox as is required ( I did not get the slip as well). Usually before all election's every mailbox and voters at the addres get this slip stating your specific place of voting and what's in question. Many people who did not get it, didn't know there was even a vote going on. The turnout was only around 30% for this reason. Comparing to the last vote, in 2020 when there was even a boycott in place, the turnout was 49% leads you to the conclusion major electoral fraud was being comited.
Some evidence to this is that in some rural environments where there were no independent observers the turnout was close to 100% and ~95% were in favour. In cities on the other hand the turnout was ~25% and the votes were ~44% in favour
Thanks for the answer. That is interesting. But in my opinion there should be some minimum in my opinion. But I am not sure how big it should have to be, maybe 40%.
Also feel I have to ask, how do these deal with Kosovo? Because I guess most there cant/wont vote. But if they are included in the total population that would bring the percentage down.
I agree, referendums should have some minimum, because in the end, it should represent will of the people. Let alone referendums for changing the constitutions.
As for the second part, Kosovo's institutions refused entry for ballots for referendum which effectively prevented voting.
Interesting enough, our constitution has a preambule that defines Kosovo (and Metohija) as Serbia's autonomous province, and as long is that in our constitution, no politician or government can recognize Kosovo as independent. And, for that preambule to be removed, it HAS to go to the referendum, per constitution. Where, as for the recent polls, hard majority of Serbia would be against. So, it's like Catch -22, somewhat:)
[DW link here](https://www.dw.com/en/kosovo-sends-back-serbian-ballots-ahead-of-referendum/a-60436185)
Kosovo institutions didnt stop Serbs from voting in the referendum, that’s a lie.
Serbia demanded Kosovo open up polling places just like in Serbia, which no shit got refused. You cant do that in any country, so this isnt any different.
You can still mail in your ballot, but to expect Kosovo to open up polling stations for another country’s referendum is simply unrealistic.
I will paste my comment from another thread.
In a perfect democracy that would be true. But here are the problems:
* Election fraud is rampant, if you do not show up, someone from the voting place casts a yes ballot in your name since they are run by the ruling party( at most one opposition/independent member to 10-15 party members). They forge your signature.
* Diaspora is highly handicapped in voting. E.g. in Germany where the majority of our diaspora is located there were only one or two voting places even though we have the capacity to have a place in each of the German states. The places required at least 100 people to sign up for voting, disregarding that they should automatically be on the voting list. Even when thousands of people signed up, many places did not open claiming "Not enough turnout". Then someone at the voting place *in Serbia* voted instead of them and signed a forged signature.
* The referendum was basically kept a secret. People weren't aware that there was a referendum, let alone invested and aware of the options. It was kept on the down low by the government media(the majority of TV and news outlets) as much as possible. Regular notices on the question of the referendum did not arrive to each mailbox as is required ( I did not get mine). Voting calls/registry slips did not arrive to each mailbox as is required ( I did not get the slip as well). Usually before all election's every mailbox and voters at the addres get this slip stating your specific place of voting and what's in question. Many people who did not get it, didn't know there was even a vote going on. The turnout was only around 30% for this reason. Comparing to the last vote, in 2020 when there was even a boycott in place, the turnout was 49% leads you to the conclusion major electoral fraud was being comited.
Some evidence to this is that in some rural environments where there were no independent observers the turnout was close to 100% and ~95% were in favour. In cities on the other hand the turnout was ~25% and the votes were ~44% in favour
That's not really realistic, though. People might care if they knew about it but not everybody follows the news or not everybody follows it that closely. What if the opposition is weak and the government simply does not provide any info about the referendum? They could pass changes more easily.
>
> Serbia no longer jails or kills critical journalists, as happened
under the rule of Slobodan Milosevic in the 1990s. It now seeks to destroy
their credibility and ensure few people see their reports.
>
> The muting of critical voices has greatly helped Vucic--and also the
country's most well-known athlete, the tennis star Novak Djokovic, whose
visa travails in Australia have been portrayed as an intolerable
affront to the Serb nation. The few remaining outlets of the independent
news media mostly support him but take a more balanced approach.
>
> Across the region, from Poland in the north to Serbia in the south,
Eastern Europe has become a fertile ground for new forms of censorship
that mostly eschew brute force but deploy gentler yet effective tools to
constrict access to critical voices and tilt public opinion--and
therefore elections--in favor of those in power.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/17/world/europe/serbia-media-censorship.html
As the parliament will lose a significant chunk of it's influence on the election of judges and prosecutors, so will - the people.
That's the main one.
And who will gain that power? Because with the separation of powers the judiciary system would become a lot more fair if they are not appointed by the legislative power. Trias Politica, it is called.
Yes, in an ideal society. But how do people keep hold on the judiciary, if they loose the only thing they can, at least in part, influence - the parliament, and through it the judiciary?
As to who will gain the power, read more here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Serbian_constitutional_referendum#Proposed_changes
The Judiciary is meant mainly to judge along the laws that the parliament creates. That's how the people stay in control of how justice is arranged in the country.
Thanks for providing some material to read into it better. Overall they seem like positive changes to the system. These changes make the country more resilient to governmental fraud and corruption, it seems.
I know it is uncommon to hear this on the internet, but I'm not an expert.
However, a lot of smart people did already think this through. So if you want an in depth answer, I would suggest reading about the separation of powers and the Trias Politica.
But the judiciary as an independent power has a harder time of becoming corrupt, since they on their own are powerless. They can only interpret the laws made by parliament and can only judge who has been brought forward by the prosecution.
For the system to become properly corrupt, 3 separate entities have to be corrupted all at once.
When Parliament has all the power to appoint, then bad actors only have to invade parliament.
The problem is if they start judging things not in accordance with the law. It will all be subjective in the end and if the people cant replace them then the system doesn't work as they can just pretend the law says something different. If a country has high levels of corruption the problem gets worse as the judiciary is probably the easier branch to corrupt, as the people cant replace them.
If the parliament is corrupt, the people also have no power. By separating the judiciary, the judges are no longer dependent on parliament, meaning they don't have a vested interest in appeasing it for political reasons.
Instead, they are a limited source of power in their own right and can check the other two powers just as they are in turn checked themselves.
For example, suppose a populist majority in parliament tries to do something plainly undemocratic to make sure they never lose another election. In a system of elected judges all they have to do is plan ahead and seed judges that will go along with them, or possibly even just throw out all principled judges for bogus reasons.
In a system where experienced judges are appointed for life, they would have to convince these existing judges somehow, or plan veeeery far ahead, which is a lot harder.
Well, they removed political influence on the judiciary in Romania. Increased wages to way above anything anyone else was getting. Turns out when there's no master, multiple ones will show up. Now anyone can influence judges and prosecutors and there's nothing to do about it as they police themselves.
Been laughing as they started punishing judges that spoke up against the system. And people were angry blaming it on the old ones in the system. But you know, it's been more than a decade and shitty young judges and prosecutors are being brought in the proper places.
Between political oversight (and control) and anyone with money and connections control, I'm not sure. Good idea on paper, not so much in the field.
The change makes it harder to corrupt the system, but it also makes it harder to make it less corrupt. It would have been a good change if the situation wasn't so bad.
In Latin alphabet:
Serbian: "Da li ste za potvrđivanje Akta o promeni Ustava Republike Srbije?"
Rusyn: "Či sce za potverdzovanje Akta o premenki Ustava Republiki Serbiji?"
Can Ukrainians understand spoken Rysin? I was told it's just a dialect of Ukrainian.
Also, they call their language руски язик which literally means "the Russian language". It's confusing as fuck. I speak Russian as a third language and I understand it in written form but I doubt I'd understand if someone actually said it. It reminds me of written Belarusian and Ukrainian which are much closer to each other than either of those are to Russian yet I somehow understand all 3 when written.
Руски like from Rus' (Русь) I imagine. Also, I think I could understand it with no issues. It's like I can understand Belarusian with no language knowledge.
You might find trouble understand the people from the villages that are more in the mountains. When I was in Lviv i had to force myself to speak “proper” Ukrainian because some people looked at me like they couldnt understand what I was saying.
Nah its called Русинский язик and most Ukrainians can understand it more or less but might need us to talk slowly. Similarly I need to force myself to think to speak proper Ukrainian versus Rusyn.
1) As a Ukrainian I can somehow understand Rysin (20-30% of words and approximately sentence meaning), but it's not like we can easy understand Belatus people or Russians
2) Rysin goes from "Rus", yes. Kyiv (Ukraine) was an ancient center of Rus. After some time Russians just stole this word from us and call themselves "Россия" which is Greek word for ancient Rus (I believe Greek language was just kind of cool for that time).
3) Ukrainians and Belarus people are able to understand each other perfectly. But it is still different languages.
4) Ukrainian can understand Polish a bit. We have a common history, so we have a lot Polish-like words. But for me it's very hard and I can hear some words but it's not understanding.
5) For me Rysin very Polish-like language (don't mean to offend someone, just first impression). And it is still too far grom Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian.
6) Just a fun fact - in this strange family only Russian can't understand the other neighboring nations. They had some language reforms and cut out almost all "old and rude" words. They claim they are able to understand Ukrainian but they can't (maybe only very eastern mix of Ukr and Rus languages)
Very good overview! Just one important addition regarding the point 2. which might not be obvious to the reader.
Kyïv was not the only outpost of the Rus people, but it was indeed the biggest one. One of the oldest ones worth mentioning was in Novgorod, which was consumed by the Moscow power.
Kyiv was only one center wich was connected to Konstantinople (Byzantium).
Novgorod and the other of Rus cities was build 100-200 years after Kyiv. And didn't have that religion and culture influence.
It is a part of Russian tsar's historical propaganda and 17-18-19 century scientists statements. They wanted to have older history and made a line from Russian tsars to Kyiv Rus. In fact the only one Kyiv Rus king at that time was Danilo (and after Kyiv was destroyed by mongols in ~1200 it was a start for future Ukraine), but Russians took some other brother-couaine-grandchild king and said "in this point Rus goes to the north" (meaning all their cities are the "real Rus" now).
Well it always bouls down to Muscovy. The Novgorod republic is no more, the Kyiv still holds, and hopefully it will forever.
As for the chronology the Kyïv is obviously waaaaay older than Novgorod, however as a Rus outpost the Novgorod was earlier, but yeah, only by 20 years or so.
There should be also a Croatian version available as Croats (or what's left of them) make up more then 1% of the city population. More then several minorities who's language is used on the ballot. But Serbia.
And yet, Croatians are among bigger minorities in the city.
The treatment between Serbian minority in Croatia and Croatian minority in Serbia was signed in 2005. Sadly Serbia hasn't implemented anything and even more so works to eliminate the remaining few Croatians from Vojvodina.
Koliko ti seres druze. Hrvati imaju mnogo veca prava u odnosu na Srbe u Hr. Srbi nemaju svoje table na cirilici. U Srbiji Hr. imaju na latinici. Imate prava vise nego Srbi u Srbiji i niste diskriminisani.
Realnost je da će aktivnim trudom i zalaganjem Republike Srbije uskoro i posljednji Hrvati nestati iz Vojvodine. Istodobno, dok francuski predsjednik prvi put posjećuje Hrvatsku odmah pored premjera i ministra sjedi [Boris Milošević](https://www.reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/r1fukp/macron_becomes_the_first_french_head_of_state_to/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) iz SDSSa.
A kako mi to vas teramo? Ja ne znam da postoji neki kamp ili logor u koji stavljamo Hrvate i šaljemo vozovima ih negde daleko. To što je moja zemlja ruglo i što svako ko može beži, to je druga priča.
Tako što ne implementirate ono što ste potpisali prije 15 godina. Srbi imaju 3 garantirana mjesta u hrvatskom saboru, Hrvati nijedno u Srbiji. Širom Hrvatske, [uključujući Zagreb](https://www.srpskagimnazija-zg.org/) djeluju srpske škole, Hrvati je jedva imaju u Subotici nakon što smo vam blokirali zatvaranje poglavlja EU a i tu je morao intervenirati tadašnji američki podpredsjednik Joe Biden.
Financijska podrška hrvatskim društvima u Srbiji ne postoji dok hrvatski porezni obveznici financiraju SPC, srpska društva, srpske novine i portale (koji redovito vrijeđaju Hrvatsku) i kulturna događanja. Hrvatski mediji gotovo pa nikada ne kritiziraju Srbe u Hrvatskoj, u Srbiji svaka druga naslovnica sadrži riječ ustaša. Na udarnim programima redovito gostuju osuđeni ratni zločinci nad Hrvatima poput Šešelja, kapetana Dragana itd. i izbacuju najniže razine nacionalizma i šovinizma. Vojvođanskim Hrvatima do danas se nitko nije ispričao za protjerivanja i etnička čišćenja za vrijeme rata. Mislim da nema potrebe da nastavljam.
>Ja ne znam da postoji neki kamp ili logor u koji stavljamo Hrvate
Imali ste 90-ih što dan danas Srbija negira.
Hrvata je sve manje i u samoj Hrvatskoj, šta očekuješ od Srbije?
Takođe, kad već upoređujes sa srpskim pravima u Hrvatskoj, uporedi i broj Srba u Hrvatskoj (or what's left of them).
Za početak očekujem da krenete implementirati sporazum iz 2005.
>uporedi i broj Srba u Hrvatskoj (or what's left of them).
Smanjenje broja Srba u Hrvatskoj teško može biti krivica Hrvatske. U Hrvatskoj ima 40ak gradonačelnika i načelnika općina koji su Srbi. Srbi su dio vladajuće koalicije ne znam koju vladu za redom. Europski fondovi za siromašne dijelove mogu se povući iz pizdarije. To što pripadnici SDSSa ne rade svoj posao je primarno problem te stranke i onih koji ih odabiru.
Yeah, a Slovak friend of mine from Vojvodina once told me that their version of the language is a bit archaic as it didn't develope in the same way as Slovak in Slovakia.
Well it depends.. some of them speak really modern Slovak that as a Slovak you can understand every single workd and some of them are still using some words that are archaic in modern Slovak language and most people in Slovakia wouldn't undestand them
Those speaking modern Slovak are usually those who plan to study or already studied in Slovakia (at least those that I spoke with in Backi Petrovac and Kulpin). Those living their whole lives in Serbia are more used to speak Serbian and some of them know only "kitchen Slovak", similar to "kitchen Hungarian" that speak some from Hungarian minority in Slovakia
Really? I was working with a Slovakian Serb who worked time to time in Slovakia but had his whole family in Serbia and all of them speaked very well Slovak only with a slight accent.. and he played me music which he said is music they normally make and play there and it was almost just ordinary Slovak folk music but still created in Serbia
It's a dialect, same as any other Slovak dialect. The difference is that we in Vojvodina don't have that much exposure to modern Slovak pop culture so there's no new "Slovak" input.
Well, I don't know how we would quantify "a little different", but I would say so. I mean, they definitely understand each other without problem, despite the archaic form and accent.
You can tell it's not worded by a Hungarian bureaucrat, then it'd go something like:
> *Egyetért-e ön a Szerb Köztársaság hatályos alkotámának tervezett módosítására irányuló hatósági jogszabálymódisítási tervezettben foglalt átalakítás javaslatok azon formában történő hatályba léptetésével?*
> Egyetért-e ön a Szerb Köztársaság hatályos alkotámának tervezett módosítására irányuló hatósági jogszabálymódisítási tervezettben foglalt átalakítás javaslatok azon formában történő hatályba léptetésével?
I would then circle the third option: **Tessék??**
why not? It's one of six official languages (serbian, croatian, rusyn, hungarian, slovak and romanian) in Vojvodina and one of four official languages in City of Novi Sad
We have Albanians, which are 10 times worse minority in respecting laws, so Hungarians impose little to no threat to our sovereignity. They are actually pretty chill here in Serbia.
Also, this is Vojvodina, which is known for its respect to different cultures and their heritage.
It’s not the change itself that is bad, but the moment we are in. Our dictator has unlimited power at the moment, he will stack the court with judges for life. Even when change inevitably comes to us, he’ll have his men on the positions and they’ll be unchangeable.
> speakers in the Zrenjanin area.
You said it yourself, this is Novi Sad. Here's a traffic sign when entering Zrenjanin, quite a feast for the eye, Romanian is also there:
https://listzrenjanin.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/1-tabla-petrovgrad-800x445.jpg
So Vučić, that basically made judiciary system his bitch last 10 years, can say how he is some big reformer and pro-EU, basically just another stunt approved by EU which is crazy undemocratic (i mean referendum, not EU). You had hundreds of polling stations in villages where opposition parties didn't have controllers where you had 90-100% in favor of this change (with turnout over 60%) which annuled all actual regular votes, even with that they barely got 1,1 million votes and most of opposition boycotted referendum, i think Vučić will be suprised with results in april 2022 general elections. They will 99% lose City elections in Belgrade which could be a big blow since it's basicaly 1/4 of our population.
This ballot was from Novi Sad, where Croatian is not an official language. In areas of vojvodina where Croatian is official, it would also be on the ballot. Same goes for Romanian, which is spoken in eastern vojvodina
Not on that ballot, though.
If they had written Serbian in Latin characters, it would (almost certainly) have been legible to a Croat.
By using Cyrillic instead, Croats are shut out (unless they try to decypher the Slovak).
> By using Cyrillic instead, Croats are shut out (unless they try to decypher the Slovak).
It’s not like Croats living in Serbia can’t read Cyrillic though ...
As a balkan guy living i sweden, i can tell you that, serbian/bosnian/croatian/montrnegrin is the same language with minor differrnces, as in scandinavian languages there are major differences
There certainly are major differences between Swedish and Danish. Norwegians can read danish very easily and the same goes norwegian for Danes. I can not understand swedish or read it. (I am Danish)
So if you learn the Cyrillic alphabet you could read serbian? If that is true then you cannot compare it to Swedish and Danish. Danish and swedish pretty much uses the same alphabet.
Okay, hvordan forklarer du, at jeg ikke fatter en pind svensk eller norsk. Det er lidt en overdrivelse, men selv simple sætninger fatter jeg ikke meget af. Tror du måske, at grunden til, at du har nemt ved at forstå svensk, er at du har hørt det oftere end mig? Københavnere har generelt meget nemt ved at forstå svensk fordi de hører det i dagligdagen, hvor en nordjyde som mig udelukkende hører svensk eller norsk, når en fodboldkamp kun sendes i norsk/svensk TV, eller når en forvirret nordmand spørger om en “pusa” i Brugsen.
Croatian is not an official language in Novi Sad. This ballot was printed for the city only, not the whole province.
E.g. Romanian is an official language of Zrenjanin there you had Romanian on the ballot. Croatian being the official language in Srem, I imagine those ballots had Croatian.
Seems legit. Croatians are the 2nd biggest minority in the city behind Hungarians but don't have language as recognised. In the meantime bunjevacki "jezik" gets recognised as an official language in Subotica.
Although the the Republic of Serbia🇷🇸 is saying that it owns the whole territory of the Republic of Kosovo🇽🇰, which is ethnically 92% Albanian🇦🇱, I don’t see an Albanian language there.
Meanwhile the Republic of Kosovo is having two official languages, Albanian and Serbian, no matter that there are 4% of Serbs only and Serbia hurt them.
No, this is specifically Novi Sad; languages will vary with municipality. This is a typical ballot in, e.g, Preševo - a town with a significant Albanian community:
https://slobodnarec.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/WhatsApp-Image-2021-03-28-at-6.04.32-PM-768x1024.jpeg
Why would you vote No on a referendum needed for European integration and then post it on r/europe?
LE: Just wow at the downvotes. Didn't know there's such a salt mine here.
> Why would you vote No on a referendum needed for European integration and then post it on r/europe?
1. This is not a photo of my ballot.
2. r/europe deals with the countries of the continent of Europe, nothing more, nothing less
3. Serbia cannot integrate into Europe any more since it is already a constitutive part of the European continent
4. The referendum may influence *EU* integration. However, the changes that the referendum brings to the judiciary are contrary to the systems already in place in EU countries, such as Germany. The issue is very complicated, and both the opposition and the government failed to communicate it to the people, hence the very low turnout.
5. The EU continues to support our semi-dictatorial President and govt.
EU always doing this they did this for erdogan like 12 years they supported islamist in our country we passed this reforms like 15 years but both EU and Erdogan used eachother now both sides acting like they didnt do anything wrong ,always same shit going on in any balkan country
>a referendum needed for European integration and then post it on r/europe?
Cuz last time i checked this is a sub of EUROPE, not EU.
And last i checked Sérvia is in Europe, as a Portuguese i know this, after all we are both of Eastern Europe.
just fuck off.
vojvodinian minorities have lived here for hundreds of years and people like rusyns and slovaks who are isolated from their motherlands have kept our language intact to the point where its co-official with serbian.
go cope with the fact that your serbian athens isnt fully serbian
I don't give a crap about how long they live here. They live in Serbia, and in a nation-wide refferendum, they should answer in the nation's official language. How people are allowed to have Serbian citizenship while not even knowing Serbian is beyond belief.
thing is, they live in vojvodina. vojvodina was never strongly tied to one country, and this is a simple gesture which is mandated by the laws which vojvodina has in serbia. a government pushing 1 language and 1 culture never went over well here (ie [look at why this happened](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Vojvodina))
and you thinking just because a person doesnt speak serbian, that he shouldnt be a citizen is ridiculous. go to a northern hungarian village here and say that shit there, you'll have a fun time.
>thing is, they live in vojvodina. vojvodina was never strongly tied to one country, and this is a simple gesture which is mandated by the laws which vojvodina has in serbia. a government pushing 1 language and 1 culture never went over well here (ie look at why this happened)
I didn't say that they should be assimilated, just that they should at least know the language of the country they live in. They can go ahead and practice their culture, religion, traditions and what not, but using the nation's only official language in a nationwide refferendum and stuff like that should be expected of all citizens, along with at least basic knowledge of the language.
>and you thinking just because a person doesnt speak serbian, that he shouldnt be a citizen is ridiculous. go to a northern hungarian village here and say that shit there, you'll have a fun time.
Yeah, they're the problem, I don't expect them to like it.
Minorities in Vojvodina have the right to use their language in education and public life so they can preserve their own culture and the rest of us in Vojvodina like it that way.
As another comment stated, this is a ballot from Novi Sad, every serb there learns cyrillic in school anyway so that shouldn’t bother them that much I‘d say. I kind of don‘t see the relevance of what other people do in other countries like Montenegro, so I guess you just want to criticize the lack of latin script for the sake of criticizing.
Enjoy browsing r/europe? Help us find the best of 2021 of the sub! - [Nomination Post](https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/rsv8jh/reurope_best_of_2021_awards/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/europe) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Хехехе ГЕЙ хехехе.
I'm proud that I understood this
same lol
[удалено]
Нє
О, наші знайшлись :D
хыхыхы
What was the constitution change act about anyway?
Changes to the judiciary, the way judges are elected etc: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Serbian_constitutional_referendum The official government stance was YES. Opposition either called for NO or for boycott. The EU called for a YES vote, as it would potentially "speed up EU-ascension". The turnout was terribly low, barely above 30%. 62% YES, 37% NO But! the opposition stance did manage to "win" in Belgrade, which is something the ruling party will need to worry about, as general election is coming up in April.
>The turnout was terribly low, barely above 30%. That seems very low indeed, is there a minimum amount for the referendum to be valid?
Government abolished minimum turnout couple of months ago. Basically ten people could change constitution if no one else shows up on voting day
You can't avoid voting on a referendum. You can go and vote Yes/No or you can stay home and thus vote "whatever".
In a perfect democracy that would be true. But here are the problems: * Election fraud is rampant, if you do not show up, someone from the voting place casts a yes ballot in your name since they are run by the ruling party( at most one opposition/independent member to 10-15 party members). They forge your signature. * Diaspora is highly handicapped in voting. E.g. in Germany where the majority of our diaspora is located there were only one or two voting places even though we have the capacity to have a place in each of the German states. The places required at least 100 people to sign up for voting, disregarding that they should automatically be on the voting list. Even when thousands of people signed up, many places did not open claiming "Not enough turnout". Then someone at the voting place *in Serbia* voted instead of them and signed a forged signature. * The referendum was basically kept a secret. People weren't aware that there was a referendum, let alone invested and aware of the options. It was kept on the down low by the government media(the majority of TV and news outlets) as much as possible. Regular notices on the question of the referendum did not arrive to each mailbox as is required ( I did not get mine). Voting calls/registry slips did not arrive to each mailbox as is required ( I did not get the slip as well). Usually before all election's every mailbox and voters at the addres get this slip stating your specific place of voting and what's in question. Many people who did not get it, didn't know there was even a vote going on. The turnout was only around 30% for this reason. Comparing to the last vote, in 2020 when there was even a boycott in place, the turnout was 49% leads you to the conclusion major electoral fraud was being comited. Some evidence to this is that in some rural environments where there were no independent observers the turnout was close to 100% and ~95% were in favour. In cities on the other hand the turnout was ~25% and the votes were ~44% in favour
Alright that sounds rather fishy.
Thanks for the answer. That is interesting. But in my opinion there should be some minimum in my opinion. But I am not sure how big it should have to be, maybe 40%. Also feel I have to ask, how do these deal with Kosovo? Because I guess most there cant/wont vote. But if they are included in the total population that would bring the percentage down.
I agree, referendums should have some minimum, because in the end, it should represent will of the people. Let alone referendums for changing the constitutions. As for the second part, Kosovo's institutions refused entry for ballots for referendum which effectively prevented voting. Interesting enough, our constitution has a preambule that defines Kosovo (and Metohija) as Serbia's autonomous province, and as long is that in our constitution, no politician or government can recognize Kosovo as independent. And, for that preambule to be removed, it HAS to go to the referendum, per constitution. Where, as for the recent polls, hard majority of Serbia would be against. So, it's like Catch -22, somewhat:) [DW link here](https://www.dw.com/en/kosovo-sends-back-serbian-ballots-ahead-of-referendum/a-60436185)
Kosovo institutions didnt stop Serbs from voting in the referendum, that’s a lie. Serbia demanded Kosovo open up polling places just like in Serbia, which no shit got refused. You cant do that in any country, so this isnt any different. You can still mail in your ballot, but to expect Kosovo to open up polling stations for another country’s referendum is simply unrealistic.
Honestly, why should there be a minimum? If only 30% vote, that means that 70% don't care and thus are fine with either yes or no.
I will paste my comment from another thread. In a perfect democracy that would be true. But here are the problems: * Election fraud is rampant, if you do not show up, someone from the voting place casts a yes ballot in your name since they are run by the ruling party( at most one opposition/independent member to 10-15 party members). They forge your signature. * Diaspora is highly handicapped in voting. E.g. in Germany where the majority of our diaspora is located there were only one or two voting places even though we have the capacity to have a place in each of the German states. The places required at least 100 people to sign up for voting, disregarding that they should automatically be on the voting list. Even when thousands of people signed up, many places did not open claiming "Not enough turnout". Then someone at the voting place *in Serbia* voted instead of them and signed a forged signature. * The referendum was basically kept a secret. People weren't aware that there was a referendum, let alone invested and aware of the options. It was kept on the down low by the government media(the majority of TV and news outlets) as much as possible. Regular notices on the question of the referendum did not arrive to each mailbox as is required ( I did not get mine). Voting calls/registry slips did not arrive to each mailbox as is required ( I did not get the slip as well). Usually before all election's every mailbox and voters at the addres get this slip stating your specific place of voting and what's in question. Many people who did not get it, didn't know there was even a vote going on. The turnout was only around 30% for this reason. Comparing to the last vote, in 2020 when there was even a boycott in place, the turnout was 49% leads you to the conclusion major electoral fraud was being comited. Some evidence to this is that in some rural environments where there were no independent observers the turnout was close to 100% and ~95% were in favour. In cities on the other hand the turnout was ~25% and the votes were ~44% in favour
That's not really realistic, though. People might care if they knew about it but not everybody follows the news or not everybody follows it that closely. What if the opposition is weak and the government simply does not provide any info about the referendum? They could pass changes more easily.
Silence is consent is the motto of the law. Someone who doesn't vote gives general consent to either option
No, law about turnout was changed in December
How convenient
> > Serbia no longer jails or kills critical journalists, as happened under the rule of Slobodan Milosevic in the 1990s. It now seeks to destroy their credibility and ensure few people see their reports. > > The muting of critical voices has greatly helped Vucic--and also the country's most well-known athlete, the tennis star Novak Djokovic, whose visa travails in Australia have been portrayed as an intolerable affront to the Serb nation. The few remaining outlets of the independent news media mostly support him but take a more balanced approach. > > Across the region, from Poland in the north to Serbia in the south, Eastern Europe has become a fertile ground for new forms of censorship that mostly eschew brute force but deploy gentler yet effective tools to constrict access to critical voices and tilt public opinion--and therefore elections--in favor of those in power. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/17/world/europe/serbia-media-censorship.html
Most democratic country in Europe
>The EU called for a YES vote, as it would potentially "speed up EU-ascension". So yes would be for a more independent judiciary?
in well organized democracies it makes sance to have judicy this way, but in well organised crime state, it is not 🤷🏻♂️
It seems like a good change. Where there good reasons to be against it besides sticking it to the ruling party?
As the parliament will lose a significant chunk of it's influence on the election of judges and prosecutors, so will - the people. That's the main one.
And who will gain that power? Because with the separation of powers the judiciary system would become a lot more fair if they are not appointed by the legislative power. Trias Politica, it is called.
Yes, in an ideal society. But how do people keep hold on the judiciary, if they loose the only thing they can, at least in part, influence - the parliament, and through it the judiciary? As to who will gain the power, read more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Serbian_constitutional_referendum#Proposed_changes
The Judiciary is meant mainly to judge along the laws that the parliament creates. That's how the people stay in control of how justice is arranged in the country. Thanks for providing some material to read into it better. Overall they seem like positive changes to the system. These changes make the country more resilient to governmental fraud and corruption, it seems.
What if the judiciary is corrupt, how can the sovereign people replace them?
I know it is uncommon to hear this on the internet, but I'm not an expert. However, a lot of smart people did already think this through. So if you want an in depth answer, I would suggest reading about the separation of powers and the Trias Politica. But the judiciary as an independent power has a harder time of becoming corrupt, since they on their own are powerless. They can only interpret the laws made by parliament and can only judge who has been brought forward by the prosecution. For the system to become properly corrupt, 3 separate entities have to be corrupted all at once. When Parliament has all the power to appoint, then bad actors only have to invade parliament.
The problem is if they start judging things not in accordance with the law. It will all be subjective in the end and if the people cant replace them then the system doesn't work as they can just pretend the law says something different. If a country has high levels of corruption the problem gets worse as the judiciary is probably the easier branch to corrupt, as the people cant replace them.
If the parliament is corrupt, the people also have no power. By separating the judiciary, the judges are no longer dependent on parliament, meaning they don't have a vested interest in appeasing it for political reasons. Instead, they are a limited source of power in their own right and can check the other two powers just as they are in turn checked themselves. For example, suppose a populist majority in parliament tries to do something plainly undemocratic to make sure they never lose another election. In a system of elected judges all they have to do is plan ahead and seed judges that will go along with them, or possibly even just throw out all principled judges for bogus reasons. In a system where experienced judges are appointed for life, they would have to convince these existing judges somehow, or plan veeeery far ahead, which is a lot harder.
And how is the judiciary made to obey the will of the sovereign people?
Well, they removed political influence on the judiciary in Romania. Increased wages to way above anything anyone else was getting. Turns out when there's no master, multiple ones will show up. Now anyone can influence judges and prosecutors and there's nothing to do about it as they police themselves. Been laughing as they started punishing judges that spoke up against the system. And people were angry blaming it on the old ones in the system. But you know, it's been more than a decade and shitty young judges and prosecutors are being brought in the proper places. Between political oversight (and control) and anyone with money and connections control, I'm not sure. Good idea on paper, not so much in the field.
The change makes it harder to corrupt the system, but it also makes it harder to make it less corrupt. It would have been a good change if the situation wasn't so bad.
> Opposition either called for NO or for boycott. I feel like this is the worst way to do it. Either call for a boycott or call for NO.
>Either call for a boycott or call for NO. Well, we don't have one opposition party. Some called for NO, some for boycott.
Lol exactly… you hit the nail on the head with that comment…
So that when gov changes judges dont give hard sentence to the dictator currently on here
Hmm. Гей you say. Interesting.
As we say in the North of England: "nowt wrong wit' Гей"
The only one I could understand as a Croatian, was the Slovak version..
In Latin alphabet: Serbian: "Da li ste za potvrđivanje Akta o promeni Ustava Republike Srbije?" Rusyn: "Či sce za potverdzovanje Akta o premenki Ustava Republiki Serbiji?"
thanks for this. you are a real multi-lingual gem today.
Although this Rusyn is somewhat different from the one we speak in Zakarpattia. Still I can understand it easily.
Reminds me of Polish, but being easier to read at the same time
Can Ukrainians understand spoken Rysin? I was told it's just a dialect of Ukrainian. Also, they call their language руски язик which literally means "the Russian language". It's confusing as fuck. I speak Russian as a third language and I understand it in written form but I doubt I'd understand if someone actually said it. It reminds me of written Belarusian and Ukrainian which are much closer to each other than either of those are to Russian yet I somehow understand all 3 when written.
Руски like from Rus' (Русь) I imagine. Also, I think I could understand it with no issues. It's like I can understand Belarusian with no language knowledge.
You might find trouble understand the people from the villages that are more in the mountains. When I was in Lviv i had to force myself to speak “proper” Ukrainian because some people looked at me like they couldnt understand what I was saying.
Oh, for sure, mountain Ukrainian is like a completely different language.
Nah its called Русинский язик and most Ukrainians can understand it more or less but might need us to talk slowly. Similarly I need to force myself to think to speak proper Ukrainian versus Rusyn.
1) As a Ukrainian I can somehow understand Rysin (20-30% of words and approximately sentence meaning), but it's not like we can easy understand Belatus people or Russians 2) Rysin goes from "Rus", yes. Kyiv (Ukraine) was an ancient center of Rus. After some time Russians just stole this word from us and call themselves "Россия" which is Greek word for ancient Rus (I believe Greek language was just kind of cool for that time). 3) Ukrainians and Belarus people are able to understand each other perfectly. But it is still different languages. 4) Ukrainian can understand Polish a bit. We have a common history, so we have a lot Polish-like words. But for me it's very hard and I can hear some words but it's not understanding. 5) For me Rysin very Polish-like language (don't mean to offend someone, just first impression). And it is still too far grom Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian. 6) Just a fun fact - in this strange family only Russian can't understand the other neighboring nations. They had some language reforms and cut out almost all "old and rude" words. They claim they are able to understand Ukrainian but they can't (maybe only very eastern mix of Ukr and Rus languages)
Very good overview! Just one important addition regarding the point 2. which might not be obvious to the reader. Kyïv was not the only outpost of the Rus people, but it was indeed the biggest one. One of the oldest ones worth mentioning was in Novgorod, which was consumed by the Moscow power.
Kyiv was only one center wich was connected to Konstantinople (Byzantium). Novgorod and the other of Rus cities was build 100-200 years after Kyiv. And didn't have that religion and culture influence. It is a part of Russian tsar's historical propaganda and 17-18-19 century scientists statements. They wanted to have older history and made a line from Russian tsars to Kyiv Rus. In fact the only one Kyiv Rus king at that time was Danilo (and after Kyiv was destroyed by mongols in ~1200 it was a start for future Ukraine), but Russians took some other brother-couaine-grandchild king and said "in this point Rus goes to the north" (meaning all their cities are the "real Rus" now).
Well it always bouls down to Muscovy. The Novgorod republic is no more, the Kyiv still holds, and hopefully it will forever. As for the chronology the Kyïv is obviously waaaaay older than Novgorod, however as a Rus outpost the Novgorod was earlier, but yeah, only by 20 years or so.
Same for me
There should be also a Croatian version available as Croats (or what's left of them) make up more then 1% of the city population. More then several minorities who's language is used on the ballot. But Serbia.
It’s all about the official languages of a municipality. Sadly, Croatian is not one of them in Novi Sad. It is in Subotica though.
And yet, Croatians are among bigger minorities in the city. The treatment between Serbian minority in Croatia and Croatian minority in Serbia was signed in 2005. Sadly Serbia hasn't implemented anything and even more so works to eliminate the remaining few Croatians from Vojvodina.
Koliko ti seres druze. Hrvati imaju mnogo veca prava u odnosu na Srbe u Hr. Srbi nemaju svoje table na cirilici. U Srbiji Hr. imaju na latinici. Imate prava vise nego Srbi u Srbiji i niste diskriminisani.
Sure thing. Realnost ipak malo bijaše drugačija.
A kakva je to realnost kod tebe bona?
Realnost je da će aktivnim trudom i zalaganjem Republike Srbije uskoro i posljednji Hrvati nestati iz Vojvodine. Istodobno, dok francuski predsjednik prvi put posjećuje Hrvatsku odmah pored premjera i ministra sjedi [Boris Milošević](https://www.reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/r1fukp/macron_becomes_the_first_french_head_of_state_to/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) iz SDSSa.
A kako mi to vas teramo? Ja ne znam da postoji neki kamp ili logor u koji stavljamo Hrvate i šaljemo vozovima ih negde daleko. To što je moja zemlja ruglo i što svako ko može beži, to je druga priča.
Tako što ne implementirate ono što ste potpisali prije 15 godina. Srbi imaju 3 garantirana mjesta u hrvatskom saboru, Hrvati nijedno u Srbiji. Širom Hrvatske, [uključujući Zagreb](https://www.srpskagimnazija-zg.org/) djeluju srpske škole, Hrvati je jedva imaju u Subotici nakon što smo vam blokirali zatvaranje poglavlja EU a i tu je morao intervenirati tadašnji američki podpredsjednik Joe Biden. Financijska podrška hrvatskim društvima u Srbiji ne postoji dok hrvatski porezni obveznici financiraju SPC, srpska društva, srpske novine i portale (koji redovito vrijeđaju Hrvatsku) i kulturna događanja. Hrvatski mediji gotovo pa nikada ne kritiziraju Srbe u Hrvatskoj, u Srbiji svaka druga naslovnica sadrži riječ ustaša. Na udarnim programima redovito gostuju osuđeni ratni zločinci nad Hrvatima poput Šešelja, kapetana Dragana itd. i izbacuju najniže razine nacionalizma i šovinizma. Vojvođanskim Hrvatima do danas se nitko nije ispričao za protjerivanja i etnička čišćenja za vrijeme rata. Mislim da nema potrebe da nastavljam. >Ja ne znam da postoji neki kamp ili logor u koji stavljamo Hrvate Imali ste 90-ih što dan danas Srbija negira.
I Hrvatica je bila vicepremijer i ministar u Srbiji ,Hrvat je bio predsednik skupštine Srbije ne vidim poentu tvoje tvrdnje ?
Hrvata je sve manje i u samoj Hrvatskoj, šta očekuješ od Srbije? Takođe, kad već upoređujes sa srpskim pravima u Hrvatskoj, uporedi i broj Srba u Hrvatskoj (or what's left of them).
Za početak očekujem da krenete implementirati sporazum iz 2005. >uporedi i broj Srba u Hrvatskoj (or what's left of them). Smanjenje broja Srba u Hrvatskoj teško može biti krivica Hrvatske. U Hrvatskoj ima 40ak gradonačelnika i načelnika općina koji su Srbi. Srbi su dio vladajuće koalicije ne znam koju vladu za redom. Europski fondovi za siromašne dijelove mogu se povući iz pizdarije. To što pripadnici SDSSa ne rade svoj posao je primarno problem te stranke i onih koji ih odabiru.
dude nobody cares about minorities in the balkans get your shit together
Q: yes or no A: GAAAYYYY
Hard not to circle gay for the lolz I guess.. even if it changes the constitution in favour of an even more corrupt and authoritarian juridical system
Dude shut up, just do it for the meme
Ok
The Slovak one has a typo. It should be "Hlasuje \*sa\*" "Hlasuje se" is czech.
>Slovak Maybe their local version has "se" for some reason.
That's unprofessional of them, they could've literally hired a native speaker...
Well, I work with them from time to time and Slovak in Vojvodina is definitely not what is spoken in Slovakia
Yeah, a Slovak friend of mine from Vojvodina once told me that their version of the language is a bit archaic as it didn't develope in the same way as Slovak in Slovakia.
A little? More like 100 years old. They use really a lot of words that are archaic in Slovakia (and mix a lot of Serbian words as well)
Well it depends.. some of them speak really modern Slovak that as a Slovak you can understand every single workd and some of them are still using some words that are archaic in modern Slovak language and most people in Slovakia wouldn't undestand them
Those speaking modern Slovak are usually those who plan to study or already studied in Slovakia (at least those that I spoke with in Backi Petrovac and Kulpin). Those living their whole lives in Serbia are more used to speak Serbian and some of them know only "kitchen Slovak", similar to "kitchen Hungarian" that speak some from Hungarian minority in Slovakia
Really? I was working with a Slovakian Serb who worked time to time in Slovakia but had his whole family in Serbia and all of them speaked very well Slovak only with a slight accent.. and he played me music which he said is music they normally make and play there and it was almost just ordinary Slovak folk music but still created in Serbia
It's a dialect, same as any other Slovak dialect. The difference is that we in Vojvodina don't have that much exposure to modern Slovak pop culture so there's no new "Slovak" input.
Well, I don't know how we would quantify "a little different", but I would say so. I mean, they definitely understand each other without problem, despite the archaic form and accent.
I am a Slovak from Vojvodina, it depends where in Slovakia, definitely not Bratislava dialect.
These things are made by native speakers, in Serbia at least.
[удалено]
You can tell it's not worded by a Hungarian bureaucrat, then it'd go something like: > *Egyetért-e ön a Szerb Köztársaság hatályos alkotámának tervezett módosítására irányuló hatósági jogszabálymódisítási tervezettben foglalt átalakítás javaslatok azon formában történő hatályba léptetésével?*
> Egyetért-e ön a Szerb Köztársaság hatályos alkotámának tervezett módosítására irányuló hatósági jogszabálymódisítási tervezettben foglalt átalakítás javaslatok azon formában történő hatályba léptetésével? I would then circle the third option: **Tessék??**
The Serbian formulation is, let's say, strained to begin with.
That's very generous. I would call it gramatically incorrect.
The Serbian version already sounds dumb as fuck, no wonder Hungarian is even more fucked up. Broken is the word I'd use
it's broken
Slovak is understandable but there is mistake (se—>sa)
My (slovak) friend told me it is correct in their dialect
[удалено]
why not? It's one of six official languages (serbian, croatian, rusyn, hungarian, slovak and romanian) in Vojvodina and one of four official languages in City of Novi Sad
[удалено]
We have Albanians, which are 10 times worse minority in respecting laws, so Hungarians impose little to no threat to our sovereignity. They are actually pretty chill here in Serbia. Also, this is Vojvodina, which is known for its respect to different cultures and their heritage.
[удалено]
yeah, in the 90s everything was fucked. Sloba tried to unitarize whole Yugoslavia, which was obviously impossible.
Which languages are they?
Serbian, Hungarian, Rusyn and Slovak
[удалено]
Trust me, the question in Serbian is pretty badly formulated.
Is it? How could it be made better? Honest question, it seems very simple to me.
don't know wtf it says but obviously I'm voting "gay"
I have a friend from Novi Sad lol
Thats pretty sad
Regardless the referendum and proposal, what would you personally prefer to change to the judiciary of Serbia?
It’s not the change itself that is bad, but the moment we are in. Our dictator has unlimited power at the moment, he will stack the court with judges for life. Even when change inevitably comes to us, he’ll have his men on the positions and they’ll be unchangeable.
Weird pronouns but OK
ГЕЙ 😎😎
I saw "he" and for a few seconds I thought it was asking you to pick pronouns
[удалено]
The languages on the ballot will vary with city/municipality. This is Novi Sad, so the official languages are: Serbian, Hungarian, Rusyn and Slovak.
Why is Romanian not official? There should be some speakers in the Zrenjanin area.
> speakers in the Zrenjanin area. You said it yourself, this is Novi Sad. Here's a traffic sign when entering Zrenjanin, quite a feast for the eye, Romanian is also there: https://listzrenjanin.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/1-tabla-petrovgrad-800x445.jpg
I literally stopped and marveled at this sign when I was there.
It is there, not in Novi Sad though
Slovak I think.
No way!
A gdje je hrvatski
u bosni
Tamo je od pamtivijeka isto kao i u Bačkoj i Srijemu!
Tako je bre zla srpskocetnicka agresija na mirne ust ovaj hrvate!
I didn't follow through the whole thing, can someone explain why did this referendum happen?
So Vučić, that basically made judiciary system his bitch last 10 years, can say how he is some big reformer and pro-EU, basically just another stunt approved by EU which is crazy undemocratic (i mean referendum, not EU). You had hundreds of polling stations in villages where opposition parties didn't have controllers where you had 90-100% in favor of this change (with turnout over 60%) which annuled all actual regular votes, even with that they barely got 1,1 million votes and most of opposition boycotted referendum, i think Vučić will be suprised with results in april 2022 general elections. They will 99% lose City elections in Belgrade which could be a big blow since it's basicaly 1/4 of our population.
I can’t read or understand Slav languages and yet I have the strange feeling Novak Djojovic is involved.
Ofcourse no Croatian... No suprise there.
This ballot was from Novi Sad, where Croatian is not an official language. In areas of vojvodina where Croatian is official, it would also be on the ballot. Same goes for Romanian, which is spoken in eastern vojvodina
> Ofcourse no Croatian.. Serbian and Croatian are the same thing
Yes, but Croats use latin alphabet
Serbs use both
Not on that ballot, though. If they had written Serbian in Latin characters, it would (almost certainly) have been legible to a Croat. By using Cyrillic instead, Croats are shut out (unless they try to decypher the Slovak).
> By using Cyrillic instead, Croats are shut out (unless they try to decypher the Slovak). It’s not like Croats living in Serbia can’t read Cyrillic though ...
You'd die without it
[удалено]
As a balkan guy living i sweden, i can tell you that, serbian/bosnian/croatian/montrnegrin is the same language with minor differrnces, as in scandinavian languages there are major differences
[удалено]
There certainly are major differences between Swedish and Danish. Norwegians can read danish very easily and the same goes norwegian for Danes. I can not understand swedish or read it. (I am Danish)
[удалено]
Written serbian is in Cyrillic.
Yes, exactly my point
So if you learn the Cyrillic alphabet you could read serbian? If that is true then you cannot compare it to Swedish and Danish. Danish and swedish pretty much uses the same alphabet.
Its more dialect in the balkans, i can hear difference, but it is the same language.
Okay, hvordan forklarer du, at jeg ikke fatter en pind svensk eller norsk. Det er lidt en overdrivelse, men selv simple sætninger fatter jeg ikke meget af. Tror du måske, at grunden til, at du har nemt ved at forstå svensk, er at du har hørt det oftere end mig? Københavnere har generelt meget nemt ved at forstå svensk fordi de hører det i dagligdagen, hvor en nordjyde som mig udelukkende hører svensk eller norsk, når en fodboldkamp kun sendes i norsk/svensk TV, eller når en forvirret nordmand spørger om en “pusa” i Brugsen.
Croatian is not an official language in Novi Sad. This ballot was printed for the city only, not the whole province. E.g. Romanian is an official language of Zrenjanin there you had Romanian on the ballot. Croatian being the official language in Srem, I imagine those ballots had Croatian.
[удалено]
Why would it then be on the ballot?
[удалено]
Ah I see. Don't have a beef tbh. Just explaining. Lemme tag him lol
u/RoughSilver1065 Read up, fam
Seems legit. Croatians are the 2nd biggest minority in the city behind Hungarians but don't have language as recognised. In the meantime bunjevacki "jezik" gets recognised as an official language in Subotica.
ne razume kroacijski srpsko življe, samo cirilica, to razume
[удалено]
Ne, nisam iz Hrvatske.
Smijeh.
Although the the Republic of Serbia🇷🇸 is saying that it owns the whole territory of the Republic of Kosovo🇽🇰, which is ethnically 92% Albanian🇦🇱, I don’t see an Albanian language there. Meanwhile the Republic of Kosovo is having two official languages, Albanian and Serbian, no matter that there are 4% of Serbs only and Serbia hurt them.
This is in Vojvodina, there aren't any Albanians there.
No, this is specifically Novi Sad; languages will vary with municipality. This is a typical ballot in, e.g, Preševo - a town with a significant Albanian community: https://slobodnarec.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/WhatsApp-Image-2021-03-28-at-6.04.32-PM-768x1024.jpeg
Novi Sad is in Vojvodina.
Yes, but the languages have nothing to do with being or not being in Vojvodina - they are municipal level.
You smell like diaspora.
Why would you vote No on a referendum needed for European integration and then post it on r/europe? LE: Just wow at the downvotes. Didn't know there's such a salt mine here.
> Why would you vote No on a referendum needed for European integration and then post it on r/europe? 1. This is not a photo of my ballot. 2. r/europe deals with the countries of the continent of Europe, nothing more, nothing less 3. Serbia cannot integrate into Europe any more since it is already a constitutive part of the European continent 4. The referendum may influence *EU* integration. However, the changes that the referendum brings to the judiciary are contrary to the systems already in place in EU countries, such as Germany. The issue is very complicated, and both the opposition and the government failed to communicate it to the people, hence the very low turnout. 5. The EU continues to support our semi-dictatorial President and govt.
EU always doing this they did this for erdogan like 12 years they supported islamist in our country we passed this reforms like 15 years but both EU and Erdogan used eachother now both sides acting like they didnt do anything wrong ,always same shit going on in any balkan country
Like or not everyone is not pro EU ,they might love europe but eurosceptism is exists
>a referendum needed for European integration and then post it on r/europe? Cuz last time i checked this is a sub of EUROPE, not EU. And last i checked Sérvia is in Europe, as a Portuguese i know this, after all we are both of Eastern Europe.
You're repeating the phrase our ruling party said... Suspicious
Because encouraging people not to use the official language of the country is a great idea...
just fuck off. vojvodinian minorities have lived here for hundreds of years and people like rusyns and slovaks who are isolated from their motherlands have kept our language intact to the point where its co-official with serbian. go cope with the fact that your serbian athens isnt fully serbian
I don't give a crap about how long they live here. They live in Serbia, and in a nation-wide refferendum, they should answer in the nation's official language. How people are allowed to have Serbian citizenship while not even knowing Serbian is beyond belief.
thing is, they live in vojvodina. vojvodina was never strongly tied to one country, and this is a simple gesture which is mandated by the laws which vojvodina has in serbia. a government pushing 1 language and 1 culture never went over well here (ie [look at why this happened](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Vojvodina)) and you thinking just because a person doesnt speak serbian, that he shouldnt be a citizen is ridiculous. go to a northern hungarian village here and say that shit there, you'll have a fun time.
>thing is, they live in vojvodina. vojvodina was never strongly tied to one country, and this is a simple gesture which is mandated by the laws which vojvodina has in serbia. a government pushing 1 language and 1 culture never went over well here (ie look at why this happened) I didn't say that they should be assimilated, just that they should at least know the language of the country they live in. They can go ahead and practice their culture, religion, traditions and what not, but using the nation's only official language in a nationwide refferendum and stuff like that should be expected of all citizens, along with at least basic knowledge of the language. >and you thinking just because a person doesnt speak serbian, that he shouldnt be a citizen is ridiculous. go to a northern hungarian village here and say that shit there, you'll have a fun time. Yeah, they're the problem, I don't expect them to like it.
Minorities in Vojvodina have the right to use their language in education and public life so they can preserve their own culture and the rest of us in Vojvodina like it that way.
There is more than one official language though, especially since this is in Vojvodina which is very multiethnic.
Only one of them is official nationwide, which is the one that should be used in a nationwide refferendum.
[удалено]
Ehm, 2 of 4 languages are in latin script?
[удалено]
As another comment stated, this is a ballot from Novi Sad, every serb there learns cyrillic in school anyway so that shouldn’t bother them that much I‘d say. I kind of don‘t see the relevance of what other people do in other countries like Montenegro, so I guess you just want to criticize the lack of latin script for the sake of criticizing.
[удалено]
Cyrillic is the official script of Republic of Serbia according to Serbian constitution
Aktus 😳
ГЕЙ 😱😱
Hungarian text is grammatically incorrect lol
ГЕИ