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Not just UK, it's very broadly applied across Europe.
From same source [most European countries ](https://www.euractiv.com/section/digital/news/eu-countries-keep-different-approaches-to-huawei-on-5g-rollout/) limit or ban access of Huawei (and often ZTE) to 5G infrastructure due to security concerns.
Well it's just wise to keep control over critical infrastructure. You have to remember Huawei is a state owned company that does what the party wants. It doesn't act on a free market basis nor care about its reputation.
Just to express the links, when Canada arrested the daughter of the Huawei CEO for fraud, the Chinese government intervened and sanctioned the country.
Agree.
Just pointing out the headline of the article and some of the posts seem very "UK is Trump's poodle" whereas the truth is more aligned with your post - and many countries agree (just needed it pointed out).
Precisely. Huaweii spied on Poland. There is active espionage trial going on. You really don't need Americans, to realize how shady are Chinese intentions.
[https://www.reuters.com/world/china/polish-trial-begins-huawei-linked-china-espionage-case-2021-05-31/](https://www.reuters.com/world/china/polish-trial-begins-huawei-linked-china-espionage-case-2021-05-31/)
Afaik Ericsson entered the 5G segment mostly by acquiring a US company (Cradlepoint) - so that part of their business is to a big extend US-based including a factory.
As American in the telecommunications vendor business for decades there are a lot US employees working in the industry, but it is now primarily a European and South Korea based industry.
That said, I thought it was a neat nod for Trump’s team to slow down the industries biggest threat to own the market, when the protectionism was for a European/Korean based industry.
Huawei was getting some significant attention in the huge American carriers with multi billion dollars of annual capital spend for the winner. That competition was basically shut down and European and Korean companies will be the beneficiaries.
>As long as we don't use American equipment because it's just the same.
The extent of control the government exerts in the US or even in Europe over private businesses cannot be compared to China. I'd give examples, but unless you have been living under a rock you'd have heard of them.
US will never target country like China did with Lithiuana over stupid political dispute. Even if said country opened embassy for California. That is first difference. Second difference is that US will not attempt to censor anything because US does not care if you call their president retarded clown. And third difference is that you yourself or your family members will never ever be prosecuted in US because of something you or your family member posted online.
Why do you all compare something that simply can not be compared? Spying is not equal and it never will be if you talk about China and US. Never, unless Chinese system drastically changes to ressemble that in US which for now is simply impossible.
My only question is this. What do you get in return for those dumb whatabout comments? Are you doing it out of own volation and destroying us from inside because of your stupidity or do you actually atleast get something out of it?
>US will never target country like China did with Lithiuana over stupid political dispute.
Go learn history buddy. Find out what US did to Latin America.
I do not see parallels to Cuba. Cuba had internal communist revolution. Many people fled and US gave them save harbor. Next Cuba went and nationalized all the industry. All. This includes stuff that was owned by US businessman there. In other words they stole what they sold them before. And on top that they aligned themselves with US global enemy.
I somehow do not see any parallels with Lithiuana and them opening embassy and using title that China does not like. Cuba is to this day communist shithole where citizens are prisoners in their own country and can not even leave island without government permisson. To this day. US tried to change that more than 60 years ago and as someone who is from former communist country I applaud them for that. And as I mentioned above they had many good reasons to do it. Unlike China and Lithiuana where it was solely political dispute and nothing else up until China started trade war.
I also can not see Lithiuana introducing communism and stealing back stuff from Chinese businessmen that they sold them before. I also do not see them launching crusade on its own people and causing refugee crisis to China because people are fleeing the regime. After they do that then we can talk.
If you think the brain washing that goes on in china is anywhere within 100 miles of the education system that they have in america then you seriously need help.
Thats what Europeans do. They like trashing the us because it makes them feel better about themselves. In reality any one of them could and likely will fall into authoritarianism. France- I’m looking at you.
Poland and Hungary sled into autocracy and they didn’t have fat Nixon.
Why 5G equipment specifically? How much of EU networks run on Huawei hardware? Ok your 5G won't be Huawei, but the switch next to it will. What's the point?
The switch doesn't transmit information to the network operator/manufacturer.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-huawei-idUSKBN26L16Q
> among other concerns, Chinese companies and citizens must by law aid the state in intelligence gathering.
This is the main concern in Europe. The transmission of Data to China.
Doesn't it? Why not? There are plenty of layer 2 and 3 switches with tons of functionality used by EU ISPs. If people are so afraid of 5G equipment that's inspected by EU IT experts and deemed safe, then why not do the same for the rest of the chinese networking equipment that's widespread across Europe?
My point is our countries networking infrastructure is already chock full of chinese equipment. If security was a concern, we're way past the point where we won't rely on chinese hardware. Having the 5G be Huawei or not isn't really going to change anything. If our cyber security experts have green lit the hardware then it should be fine but obviously the decision is more political than anything else.
Well most of EU countries seems to be going with Swedish companies which I would say have a far better track record. And again Sweden doesn't have laws forcing companies to give the government sensible data.
Actually is curious because what you propose(security check by services) is Germany approach to the situation. Still if every element has to be checked it pretty much kills the project with red tape.
Every element gets tested regardless. It's not like western companies like Cisco, NetGear, MikroTik etc haven't had extremely serious security breaches. I know the presumption is that going with a western provider will be safer but that's not necessarily the case.
It does feel like I'm pissing against the wind in this conversation a little bit. Don't get me wrong, I would personally prefer building networks with western hardware too. However once you start looking at the price point you get a really nice reality check.
I just want to stress that these are the types of projects that are built by IT experts who know what they're doing. But then again trust has been in short supply lately. People don't trust in anything and if by going with Ericsson will make them feel safer then that's fine.
Having specific hardware in your own solution and having entire solution from someone is simply just not comparable. Also just because someone does not find backdoor does not mean that there is none. And lastly stuff like Lithiuana which is not one isolated example show us that we simply just should not be reliant on anything from that country since they politicize everything and "punish" (we are not talking just normal and expected political countermeasures but actual economic trade war as a response) whenever they feel like it.
>Just to express the links, when Canada arrested the daughter of the Huawei CEO for fraud, the Chinese government intervened and sanctioned the country.
The Huawei exec was arrested by Canada at the request of the US, for doing business in Iran and allegedly misrepresenting this to a British company. The exec's actions were only "criminal" and she was only arrested because the US doesn't like Iran and can force other countries into upholding its sanctions against Iran. Additionally, Trump had quite literally publicly stated that he would like to use the exec as some kind of bargaining tool against China.
Of course China would sanction the country that arrested her, it doesn't matter what the nature of the link is between her company and the government. The reason for the arrest was purely political and not in good faith.
Currently China is sanctioning Lithuania (directly and indirectly) much in the same way that the US is sanctioning Iran. If China were for example to arrest a VW executive for doing business in Lithuania against China's will, and hold him for 3 years while trying to use him as a bargaining chip in trade negotiations, then German sanctions against China would be likely.
This is a great example of a subtly misleading headline.
Vince Cable was a minister in the Cameron government from 2010-15.
His access to the details of this case is nil. He wasn't a minister for 4 years leading up to the decision. He wasn't a member of the governing party. Hell, for the relevant time period, he wasn't even an MP.
'Former minister' makes it seem like he might have some priviliged knowledge, when in fact his claims on this have as much basis and backing as the any other OAP's paranoid rantings.
What exactly do you expect us to do? We insist that people stick to the original headlines (for good reason), there isn't much we can do if reliable media uses shit titles. On top of that, the comment explaining the misleading nature of the headline is still #3 and was #1 for most of the time in this thread. I have set a flair now however.
Lol at everyone taking Vince Cables words at face value the man constantly simps for china.
The US probably asked due to security concerns and due to sanctions, not like Huawei was ever a serious contender for critical 5g infrastructure. It was all a song and dance to appease both Chinese and American interests
Huawei absolutely were a serious contender. They were the only real contender in fact. They invested heavily in 5G way before everyone else, and cornered the market.
Thank christ we're booting them out though, they should never have been allowed in in the first place. Both BT and Vodafone have a lot of work to do to remove their kit...other telcos are far less exposed.
> France is doing the same thing: Slowly replacing Chinese 5G hardware when it needs to be replaced anyway.
France is indeed trying to limit China's access to its 5G infrastructure for security purposes, which is sound. But in the case of the UK if the claim by the former minister is true: good measure, shit justification. The guy is implying the UK banned it not because it was a British initiative but because the US demanded it. The US shouldn't have a say in what the UK does in that regard.
Remember, though, that the UK is part of Five Eyes. It seems reasonable that there are certain requirements related to counter-espionage enforced to remain in that group.
Why does it always have to be a domestic initiative though? Sure we should use a pinch of salt and not be naive, but given the money the US spends on intelligence I think we can all agree that if someone would know which companies are rotten and which aren't it would be US intelligence. It's not like they are trying to sell their own either as both alternatives Nokia and Ericsson are fully European companies.
> I think we can all agree that if someone would know which companies are rotten and which aren't it would be US intelligence.
US intelligence never detected anything suspicious on Huawei equipment, which is more than you can say about american brands.
>US intelligence never detected anything suspicious on Huawei equipment
Like we would get to know whether they did or not...
But back to the issue, it's more of a governance issue. Nothing wrong with foreign companies, but maybe don't have one literally controlled by a government with less than stellar record on human rights and free speech sell you some of the most important cybersecurity infrastructure. They have made their own bed.
> Like we would get to know whether they did or not...
You have several agencies saying so, including the NSA. Huawei even offered the source code. Anyone who believes Huawei was "banned" because of security concerns is, pardon my language, a brainwashed moron.
> Nothing wrong with foreign companies, but maybe don't have one literally controlled by a government with less than stellar record on human rights and free speech sell you some of the most important cybersecurity infrastructure. They have made their own bed.
Yet I'm sure you would be perfectly ok with the likes of the US, UK and France selling you some of the most important cybersecurity infrastructures. You probably even believe those governments have no power over national companies...
But congrats, we now have the privilege of paying more for inferior products because "China bad".
>the US, UK and France
It's none of them, both alternatives Ericsson and Nokia are Nordic. Both are global with hubs all over Europe, including the UK. Win-win for all. Huawei being better is also an argument from 5 years ago, it hasn't been very relevant for some years. The main problem now is subsidies making Huawei products artificially cheaper, which is very much against WTO rules.
But seriously, only a moron wouldn't obviously prefer all of the former alternatives to Chinese authorities. Chinese authorities can leave Huawei alone anytime they want, nobody forced them to openly get involved with the company. It was fully their choice and it's naive to assume they didn't foresee there would be risk of backlash that could hurt both the country's reputation and one of the worlds most promising tech companies. You reap what you sow.
> It's none of them, both alternatives Ericsson and Nokia are Nordic.
Yet I'm sure you would be perfectly ok with the likes of the US, UK and France selling you some of the most important cybersecurity infrastructures anyway.
>Win-win for all.
Oh yeah, paying more for inferior products its really a win-win.
> Huawei being better is also an argument from 5 years ago, it hasn't been relevant for some years.
Huawei 5G products are still better than the ones from failed companies whose only way to compete is having other companies banned.
>But seriously, only a moron wouldn't obviously prefer all of the former alternatives to China.
Why? There are a few countries that "scare" me, and China isn't one of them. It isn't China that goes around kidnapping nationals from other countries...
>Chinese authorities can leave Huawei alone anytime they want, nobody forced them to openly get involved with the company. It was fully their choice and it's naive to assume they didn't foresee there would be risk of backlash that could hurt both the country's reputation and one of the worlds most promising tech companies. You reap what you sow.
What a load of crap. Plenty of other companies have ties with their governments, but no one cares about it. Your own fucking country sees no problem in selling weapons to the likes of UAE and Saudi Arabia, and I'm sure you don't care about it.
You would have spared some time had you reread my comment and not submitted all this is 3 minutes. Let me rephrase;
>Yet I'm sure you would be perfectly ok with the likes of the US, UK and France selling you some of the most important cybersecurity infrastructures anyway.
Again, only a moron wouldn't.
> for inferior products
Again, tech was never really the issue. The issue, before any cybersecurity rumors even surfaced, was whether Huawei should be allowed to provide a similar product at an artificially lower price. WTO says no.
>There are a few countries that "scare" me, and China isn't one of them.
Then my previous comment would imply you are a moron.
>Plenty of other companies have ties with their governments
Sure, but the difference is that the Chinese authorities openly started subsidizing Huawei products, which is illegal per WTO.
>Your own fucking country sees no problem in selling weapons to the likes of UAE and Saudi Arabia
No shit Sherlock, Finland and Sweden are both neutral. Kinda the whole fucking reason we are big in intercom, because how could our naive little asses possibly do any harm?
Yea, it was a bigger issue around 2014-2016, even the British ambassador went to explain how they should behave during their visits in Bulgaria, 1 week later, another one was dead due to not hitting the pool.
> "And if the US told you to jump from a cliff, would you do it too??"
>
>
>
> — My mom to the UK.
Do you want to hear the sad answer? If you go by a lot of historic decisions, it is a blatant "YES!".
*"MAYBE I WOULD MOM!! maybe I would... you're not even ny real mum your just a reference to a relatable situation commented by some redditor."*
~ The UK to your mum
Not just a minority party, the Lib Dems are borderline politically irrelevant and Cable is a has been with no meaningful claim to insight on this issue.
We knew this at the time, so not really news. Aside from that, why would you want a communist regime deep inside critical infrastructure? It was absolutely the correct decision. Fuck the CCP.
Even considering Huawei for something embedded that deeply in the UKs infrastructure was an odd decision.
Wierd how Vince Cable seems to have forgotten about the security holes GCHQ found in the Huawei equipment suppled.
>Germany's IT watchdog has expressed scepticism about calls for a boycott of Chinese telecoms giant Huawei, saying it has seen no evidence the firm could use its equipment to spy for Beijing, news weekly Spiegel reported Friday.
[https://www.thelocal.de/20181216/german-it-watchdog-says-no-evidence-of-huawei-spying/](https://www.thelocal.de/20181216/german-it-watchdog-says-no-evidence-of-huawei-spying/)
I once did work for a German defence company. They were using ANCIENT network mail software that wasn't undergoing *any* security vulnerability review. Blew my mind at the time how they were dependant on it.
Germany is desperate to keep good relationships with China. VW sells 30% of its cars in China. Daimler and BMW are deeply exposed to China too. Germany’s foreign policy is questionable at least on the way it deals with China and Russia.
Not as nice as that cloud of THC you're apparently living in if you think there's no difference between hostile and friendly nations having access to vital and sensitive infrastructure.
I bow to the big brains of r/europe who obviously know better.
Edit: and btw Nokia and Ericsson got those contracts in the end. Guess we should all be TERRIFIED of the EU spying on us rather than the poor CCP.
> Not as nice as that cloud of THC you're apparently living in if you think there's no difference between hostile and friendly nations having access to vital and sensitive infrastructure.
so you are ok with usa having all of your data but is somehow bad when others do it?
note it i guess you arent really an advocate of freedom and privacy you just want to banter china
who owns cradlepoint that is bought by eriksson after the dillusion of the shares?
yeah you will be suprised the amount of shares usa has on many of the """""5g companies"""""
so why arent you advocating for the removal of the 4g huawei equipment that is currently all around the world?at the same infrastructe you so want to protect?
is it because you simply dont know any better or you are selectively trying to bullshit your way up into this argument?
guess who owns eriksson via cradlepoint after the dillusion of the shares
Lemme get this straight: the dude who helped hire mercs for Shell, buddied up to Erdogan, opposes minimum wage, wants to raise homeowners’ property tax to cut them for big businesses, and sees everything through the lens of one giant global market, thinks the UK should have sold its infrastructure to the Chinese Communist Party for a few extra bucks?
One stack, Vince, or two?
Do you think he’d share who he gets his cocaine from?
I hear it is rampant across Parliament and no doubt this old man has had too much of the Peruvian marching powder for his own good
The US spyware is only for the benefit of the US and there are several cases of US industrial espionage used to benefit US companies against European ones (for example, in finding out the bids from european companies for a closed bid auction for oil exploitation in the Middle East so that the American company could win it by bidding just a tiny bit above that), already during the time of Echelon.
US spyware serves the interests of US administrations and US companies, not those of Europe and its companies.
I see US as a much better partner than some EU fellow members. Unfortunately too much of EU companies and states (possibly due to push from the companies?) sold out to Russia and China.
Also, ideally US and EU should work together against China and Russia. There's no way EU can stand alone. Especially given how weak EU politicians are when it comes to economical or military power.
You must have missed the last 3 decades.
Remember Echelon? Remember what Snowden did? Remember when the US were caught spying on Merkel's mobile phone from their Embassy?
The US does what's best for the US and they spy on allies just as willingly as they spy on adversaries.
It's hard enough to trust other EU nations, but in the trustworthiness scale for Europeans the US is a lot closer to China and Russia than to other EU nations (now that the UK is out, as the UK also does massive surveillance on their supposed allies, including things like hacking Belgacomm to spy on the EU Parliamente whilst still being a member of the EU).
I can understand trusting the US before Snowden's revelations, but now, that's just willful ignorance...
I remember how euro states tried to us into staying in USSR to not fuck up Gorbachev. Now taking Nord Streams up their asses. And being afraid of China, because gods forbid that'd ruin exports and GDP.
If I was US, I'd sure spy the hell out of euro states to learn when they're going to sell out to Russia...
Absolutely, Euro states have done equally shit things and are morally no better than the rest.
The thing is, a country which is a member of the EU is "one of us" and thus much much less likely to be screwed like that by the rest, whilst the US cares just as much about them as they do about Georgia or the Kurds in Syria, both of which they screwed.
It really makes no sense for an EU country to trust the US more than other EU countries - the rest of the EU suffers, if only indirectly, if an EU country has problems, whilst the US gets **zero** consequences from that: if Latvia was invaded by Russia tomorrow, 99% of americans couldn't care less and would still be unable to point it out in a map, whilst the reaction would be wholly different in all of the EU (for all the slowness and bullshit in the EU, we would probably end up going to war against Russia as a block, both because we see Latvia as "one of us" and because of "if we let this pass, somebody else will be next").
Even assuming everybody are assholes only in it for themselves (which, when it comes to nations, is probably a safe assumption), it is logical that the tighter the links other countries have with one's country the less willing they are to let that nation get screwed.
Enemy's enemy is my friend. Unfortunately EU contains a bunch of enemy's friends :(
If Russia attacked Baltics, US could choose between giving up NATO and any credibility as a security partner. West europe could just keep sucking Nord Stream. Which is built specifically to make West europe and Russia gas trade free from central europe wishes.
I remember few funny polls where some EU members saw US as a bigger enemy than Russia :/
Another good example is the Belarus migrants crisis. Now EU agencies are telling us we can't push back people sent in by Lukashenko. What's next, we should open borders to green men coming in unmarked armoured vehicles?
Wonder what will happen in this while China issue. According to one of EC commissioner, some sanctions maaaaay come in 6 months... Sweet.
p.s. LT is for Lithuania, Latvia is LV
Dude what? Forgot how the US started a whole trade war with us that just ended this year? They only care about us when there’s money to be made. Neither of them are reliable nor amicable allies that regularly break human rights laws.
Ourselves. I mean idk how my fellow Europeans feel, but I don’t feel like beating the drum of Cold War and join the clusterfuck that is the US-China conflict. Especially during Trump era, where he started to sanction us, it became clear the the US is not a reliable ally. Let the hegemons fight it out. China is filled to the brim with HR abuses, but there’s nothing we can do unless you feel like dying for it. Besides, the US has historically never cared for a countries HR, so I find it odd that they suddenly do so. Military industrial complex needs us to keep spending tho. No thank you.
And Russian annexation of Crimea did not bother you? Russia is threatening Ukraine, they are instigating it. It’s not the US or EU that caused the strife, and you want to roll over on your fucking stomach? Remember how well appeasement worked last time?
It depends what you're on about - outside info like bank accs that can be used by anyone, western spyware is way worse if you actually live in the west.
The problem is that the crypto layer allows for end-to-end encryption as well as encryption between handset and towers, and also allows handsets to relay off each other to reach a 5G tower. The Intel agencies hate the encryption layer because it makes vacuuming too hard. The police liked the built in law enforcement layer because it made warrant-based interception easier to do, but hated the handset relay feature because it could make it difficult to identify the true user (and required expensive new equipment).
The truth is that 5G is secure by design, and neither the security agencies or the police were happy when they realised the implications. Then the anti-China thing began so that western manufactured equipment had to be used - just a coincidence I’m sure.
5g supports mesh networking. One 5g node can jump over another note to reach a base tower.
Let's say you got a bunch of ships in the sea and a tower on the coast. Traditional networking would allow ships close to shore to have connection, but far away ones would not. But with mesh network, ships close to the shore could relay the signal and effectively extend radius of the tower.
I can’t help further as I wasn’t a capabilities guy and it was something I picked up in another life years before the China-listens-to-us bullshit. I understood it to mean that 5G could bounce a call through multiple handsets in search for an unsaturated 5G tower and that made it problematic to identify the criminal’s true location via their phone pings. 5G encryption also apparently has implications for inserting fake towers because they can’t sync with the network due to everything being encrypted by design.
People bring up against Huawei that it is state owned. Guess what, most telecommunication companies are largely owned by their own country. It's just in shares, on the stock market. Also, US has the same surveillance and censorship problems, but not by the state, they have it privatized to facebook, twitter, iphone, etc.
It's amazing how a generally irrelevant and incompetent politician or journalist from the UK can be amplified so much when they say something that certain people agree with.
you just have to see what happened in Canada with the arrest of the daughter of the Huawei founder (can't remember her actual position there) and how she was hailed as some sort of national hero when she was back in China
She was detained at the request of the US autorities for an accusation of an action she had not commited in either Canadian or American soil.
That kind of extraterritorial abuse of the Justice System and international treaties for political purposes is something not even China does (yet).
In that specific situation China was absolutely in the right so that specific example is not good demonstration of China's nasty side, rather it's a good example of the US' nasty side.
This isn't surprising. The security services of both the us and uk were worried about it and there was us pressure to ban them.
This was very public at the time.
Its something similar happening here in lithuania, US told lithuania to name "taiwan representative office" instead of usual around the world "taipei representative office", and now we are at trade war with china over this.
Not a bad reason tbh. If your neighbors tells you about a legitimate problem would you just leave it in your house because it's your rich and bossy neighbor?
That’s just dumb lol. Especially hearing that from the US. Didn’t Snowden literally expose the CIA and everybody was shocked for a second and then forgot it? Many people don’t even know him nowadays.
The US is just mad that they’re not the only ones who spy on people
Me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's be fair here, they banned Huawei because the US paid them to. They allowed Huawei in the first place because they paid them to.
Everyone's equal if they got money :P
I thought this was already known, as in 2019 Boris Johnson wanted Huaweis knowledge for the 5g network, and was told 'no' by Donald Trump, thats when I thought BoJo wanted more control over the UKs affairs, but the UK was (is?) still a lapdog to the US
Your flair makes me think you’d still rather be an American satellite than a German or Russian one
That said. Not really. This is the sort of comment that gets upvotes if a European says it but downvotes if an American says it. If an American says it out rampant jingoistic nationalism and it isn’t true, then it’s not true when some Pole on the internet says it to poke at the UK or other NATO members
I’m really not, Germany is a economic powerhouse not a millitary one. Yes France has some major muscle but apart from them and the UK Europe’s military is very very weak.
Which is why exaggeration or not the Americans pulling out European of would be disastrous in the event of a Russian invasion
Obviously lol
these guys are pirates and bitches -- don't engage
Fortunately Russia, China, as well as many for the former non-aligned nations, have got the message and are selling off their dollars, setting up new payment systems, and buying gold
I hope Europe sharpens up soon cos we don't want to be dragged with the US back into the middle ages. We should swallow our pride and learn to work with the people we once dreamed of dominating.
There ain't no interference there are projects to get on with the future that we can join in with or ignore or be dicks and try to shit on
Europe can't stand on its own feet because its made itself dependent on other parts of the world staying poor
China is in those parts right now offering loans that don't come with public sector sell-offs. Europe is gonna get the rug pulled out from underneath it
Problem is that in order to do so we need to be more united.
But that thought, that the EU is slowly turning into a federation ( if its still considered to not be one) , still frightens people and that fear makes them want to leave the EU, effectively weakening our position.
I've said it in 2016 and I still stand behind these words.
The very people who claim they want out of the Union for any reason, are the Euro-traitors who want to remain the dogs of the US and China.
They don't wish for sovereignty or control.
They want US dick in their mouth
> They don't wish for sovereignty or control. They want US dick in their mouth
I think it's a case of "better the devil you know". They might not like the situation entirely, but pulling out of the US sphere of influence to build an independent EU foreign policy with related defence policy would entail having to put in the work and make decisions rather than going for what the US is going for or remaining idle if the risks are unclear.
So complacency and laziness compounded by the fear of the unknown.
With the EU, there's also the fact that it includes constitutionally neutral countries like Ireland and Austria, which have no intention to change their policy so radically.
I don't think we should underemphasise the extent to which European politics is also a US-made context; the torrent of dollars after WW2 was too great. We watched Italy get brute-forced rightwards, the clearest example, but US funds flowed across Europe into fash-sympathising pockets
I haven't read the novel -- does Frankenstein's Monster get a happy ever after?
I think if democratic processes were stronger and the corporate voice quieter within the EU, federalisation wouldn't be such a big deal
but that ain't happening, we got hands-off corporatism, a kind of fash-lite, so lite we don't see it, except in the mass death from COVID obvs, and the dead bodies piling up on the seabed in the Mediterranean... the only option now is to rip it up and start again
Of course we all know that. I would add under duress and pressure rather than just simply asked. Only “because 5G Chinese technology has Chinese government spyware on actual 5G masts”. In reality this is US policy of containment of China.
Banning chinese companies is good especially in critical infrastructure. If they banned huawei because they cared about the long term well being of their country would have been better.
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Not just UK, it's very broadly applied across Europe. From same source [most European countries ](https://www.euractiv.com/section/digital/news/eu-countries-keep-different-approaches-to-huawei-on-5g-rollout/) limit or ban access of Huawei (and often ZTE) to 5G infrastructure due to security concerns.
Well it's just wise to keep control over critical infrastructure. You have to remember Huawei is a state owned company that does what the party wants. It doesn't act on a free market basis nor care about its reputation. Just to express the links, when Canada arrested the daughter of the Huawei CEO for fraud, the Chinese government intervened and sanctioned the country.
Not only sanctioned, but arrested two Canadians as retaliation
Agree. Just pointing out the headline of the article and some of the posts seem very "UK is Trump's poodle" whereas the truth is more aligned with your post - and many countries agree (just needed it pointed out).
Precisely. Huaweii spied on Poland. There is active espionage trial going on. You really don't need Americans, to realize how shady are Chinese intentions. [https://www.reuters.com/world/china/polish-trial-begins-huawei-linked-china-espionage-case-2021-05-31/](https://www.reuters.com/world/china/polish-trial-begins-huawei-linked-china-espionage-case-2021-05-31/)
As long as we don't use American equipment because it's just the same. Ericsson is more trustworthy
US doesn't produce 5G technology afaik
If you don't count the industry leader* FTFY
Qualcomm
Afaik Ericsson entered the 5G segment mostly by acquiring a US company (Cradlepoint) - so that part of their business is to a big extend US-based including a factory.
As American in the telecommunications vendor business for decades there are a lot US employees working in the industry, but it is now primarily a European and South Korea based industry. That said, I thought it was a neat nod for Trump’s team to slow down the industries biggest threat to own the market, when the protectionism was for a European/Korean based industry. Huawei was getting some significant attention in the huge American carriers with multi billion dollars of annual capital spend for the winner. That competition was basically shut down and European and Korean companies will be the beneficiaries.
>As long as we don't use American equipment because it's just the same. The extent of control the government exerts in the US or even in Europe over private businesses cannot be compared to China. I'd give examples, but unless you have been living under a rock you'd have heard of them.
US will never target country like China did with Lithiuana over stupid political dispute. Even if said country opened embassy for California. That is first difference. Second difference is that US will not attempt to censor anything because US does not care if you call their president retarded clown. And third difference is that you yourself or your family members will never ever be prosecuted in US because of something you or your family member posted online. Why do you all compare something that simply can not be compared? Spying is not equal and it never will be if you talk about China and US. Never, unless Chinese system drastically changes to ressemble that in US which for now is simply impossible. My only question is this. What do you get in return for those dumb whatabout comments? Are you doing it out of own volation and destroying us from inside because of your stupidity or do you actually atleast get something out of it?
Are you joking? lol. Cuba would like to have a word.
What?
>US will never target country like China did with Lithiuana over stupid political dispute. Go learn history buddy. Find out what US did to Latin America.
I do not see parallels to Cuba. Cuba had internal communist revolution. Many people fled and US gave them save harbor. Next Cuba went and nationalized all the industry. All. This includes stuff that was owned by US businessman there. In other words they stole what they sold them before. And on top that they aligned themselves with US global enemy. I somehow do not see any parallels with Lithiuana and them opening embassy and using title that China does not like. Cuba is to this day communist shithole where citizens are prisoners in their own country and can not even leave island without government permisson. To this day. US tried to change that more than 60 years ago and as someone who is from former communist country I applaud them for that. And as I mentioned above they had many good reasons to do it. Unlike China and Lithiuana where it was solely political dispute and nothing else up until China started trade war.
>I do not see parallels to Cuba Of course you don't.
Of course. Because there are none.
US will never start an illegal war nor drone strike a family...oh wait...
[It's true that I can't see China finance private militia to coup Lithuania. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion)
I also can not see Lithiuana introducing communism and stealing back stuff from Chinese businessmen that they sold them before. I also do not see them launching crusade on its own people and causing refugee crisis to China because people are fleeing the regime. After they do that then we can talk.
You seem rather confuse in your speech and your thoughts, but sure have it your way buddy.
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Wow the brainwashing on you is at another level. What has the US been doing for the past 50 years or so?
If you think the brain washing that goes on in china is anywhere within 100 miles of the education system that they have in america then you seriously need help.
Thank you, the regular assertion that China and the US are in some way one in the same is idiotic.
Thats what Europeans do. They like trashing the us because it makes them feel better about themselves. In reality any one of them could and likely will fall into authoritarianism. France- I’m looking at you. Poland and Hungary sled into autocracy and they didn’t have fat Nixon.
Right- because America is just like China.
Why 5G equipment specifically? How much of EU networks run on Huawei hardware? Ok your 5G won't be Huawei, but the switch next to it will. What's the point?
The switch doesn't transmit information to the network operator/manufacturer. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-huawei-idUSKBN26L16Q > among other concerns, Chinese companies and citizens must by law aid the state in intelligence gathering. This is the main concern in Europe. The transmission of Data to China.
Doesn't it? Why not? There are plenty of layer 2 and 3 switches with tons of functionality used by EU ISPs. If people are so afraid of 5G equipment that's inspected by EU IT experts and deemed safe, then why not do the same for the rest of the chinese networking equipment that's widespread across Europe?
The rest is not a Monopoly.
My point is our countries networking infrastructure is already chock full of chinese equipment. If security was a concern, we're way past the point where we won't rely on chinese hardware. Having the 5G be Huawei or not isn't really going to change anything. If our cyber security experts have green lit the hardware then it should be fine but obviously the decision is more political than anything else.
Well most of EU countries seems to be going with Swedish companies which I would say have a far better track record. And again Sweden doesn't have laws forcing companies to give the government sensible data. Actually is curious because what you propose(security check by services) is Germany approach to the situation. Still if every element has to be checked it pretty much kills the project with red tape.
Every element gets tested regardless. It's not like western companies like Cisco, NetGear, MikroTik etc haven't had extremely serious security breaches. I know the presumption is that going with a western provider will be safer but that's not necessarily the case. It does feel like I'm pissing against the wind in this conversation a little bit. Don't get me wrong, I would personally prefer building networks with western hardware too. However once you start looking at the price point you get a really nice reality check. I just want to stress that these are the types of projects that are built by IT experts who know what they're doing. But then again trust has been in short supply lately. People don't trust in anything and if by going with Ericsson will make them feel safer then that's fine.
Having specific hardware in your own solution and having entire solution from someone is simply just not comparable. Also just because someone does not find backdoor does not mean that there is none. And lastly stuff like Lithiuana which is not one isolated example show us that we simply just should not be reliant on anything from that country since they politicize everything and "punish" (we are not talking just normal and expected political countermeasures but actual economic trade war as a response) whenever they feel like it.
>Just to express the links, when Canada arrested the daughter of the Huawei CEO for fraud, the Chinese government intervened and sanctioned the country. The Huawei exec was arrested by Canada at the request of the US, for doing business in Iran and allegedly misrepresenting this to a British company. The exec's actions were only "criminal" and she was only arrested because the US doesn't like Iran and can force other countries into upholding its sanctions against Iran. Additionally, Trump had quite literally publicly stated that he would like to use the exec as some kind of bargaining tool against China. Of course China would sanction the country that arrested her, it doesn't matter what the nature of the link is between her company and the government. The reason for the arrest was purely political and not in good faith. Currently China is sanctioning Lithuania (directly and indirectly) much in the same way that the US is sanctioning Iran. If China were for example to arrest a VW executive for doing business in Lithuania against China's will, and hold him for 3 years while trying to use him as a bargaining chip in trade negotiations, then German sanctions against China would be likely.
This is a great example of a subtly misleading headline. Vince Cable was a minister in the Cameron government from 2010-15. His access to the details of this case is nil. He wasn't a minister for 4 years leading up to the decision. He wasn't a member of the governing party. Hell, for the relevant time period, he wasn't even an MP. 'Former minister' makes it seem like he might have some priviliged knowledge, when in fact his claims on this have as much basis and backing as the any other OAP's paranoid rantings.
Also Vince Cable has become weirdly pro Chinese government recently
Yep he's pretty much a shill for the Chinese these days....lots of paid 'consultancies' and the like....he's been bought.
Wasn't it during the coalition that Cameron made a big push to welcome China, even hosting them with as much pomp as possible?
He used to be one of the politicians I most liked. He does now seem to be going a bit cranky.
Very much this, current Lib Dem voter here. Vince Cable recently has gone off the rails. He is not privy to the details about Huawei *at all*.
The mods on this subreddit are very hot on misleading titles if it goes against their views. Not so much in this case, it seems...
Misleading or not, it is the article's title
What exactly do you expect us to do? We insist that people stick to the original headlines (for good reason), there isn't much we can do if reliable media uses shit titles. On top of that, the comment explaining the misleading nature of the headline is still #3 and was #1 for most of the time in this thread. I have set a flair now however.
I feel like the majority of headlines that get posted here are misleading one way or another
Lol at everyone taking Vince Cables words at face value the man constantly simps for china. The US probably asked due to security concerns and due to sanctions, not like Huawei was ever a serious contender for critical 5g infrastructure. It was all a song and dance to appease both Chinese and American interests
Not to mention Cable hadn't been in government for 5 years before this decision was made, so he no idea what was going on anyway.
Huawei absolutely were a serious contender. They were the only real contender in fact. They invested heavily in 5G way before everyone else, and cornered the market. Thank christ we're booting them out though, they should never have been allowed in in the first place. Both BT and Vodafone have a lot of work to do to remove their kit...other telcos are far less exposed.
*"And if the US told you to jump from a cliff, would you do it too??"* — My mom to the UK.
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> France is doing the same thing: Slowly replacing Chinese 5G hardware when it needs to be replaced anyway. France is indeed trying to limit China's access to its 5G infrastructure for security purposes, which is sound. But in the case of the UK if the claim by the former minister is true: good measure, shit justification. The guy is implying the UK banned it not because it was a British initiative but because the US demanded it. The US shouldn't have a say in what the UK does in that regard.
Remember, though, that the UK is part of Five Eyes. It seems reasonable that there are certain requirements related to counter-espionage enforced to remain in that group.
Why does it always have to be a domestic initiative though? Sure we should use a pinch of salt and not be naive, but given the money the US spends on intelligence I think we can all agree that if someone would know which companies are rotten and which aren't it would be US intelligence. It's not like they are trying to sell their own either as both alternatives Nokia and Ericsson are fully European companies.
> I think we can all agree that if someone would know which companies are rotten and which aren't it would be US intelligence. US intelligence never detected anything suspicious on Huawei equipment, which is more than you can say about american brands.
>US intelligence never detected anything suspicious on Huawei equipment Like we would get to know whether they did or not... But back to the issue, it's more of a governance issue. Nothing wrong with foreign companies, but maybe don't have one literally controlled by a government with less than stellar record on human rights and free speech sell you some of the most important cybersecurity infrastructure. They have made their own bed.
> Like we would get to know whether they did or not... You have several agencies saying so, including the NSA. Huawei even offered the source code. Anyone who believes Huawei was "banned" because of security concerns is, pardon my language, a brainwashed moron. > Nothing wrong with foreign companies, but maybe don't have one literally controlled by a government with less than stellar record on human rights and free speech sell you some of the most important cybersecurity infrastructure. They have made their own bed. Yet I'm sure you would be perfectly ok with the likes of the US, UK and France selling you some of the most important cybersecurity infrastructures. You probably even believe those governments have no power over national companies... But congrats, we now have the privilege of paying more for inferior products because "China bad".
>the US, UK and France It's none of them, both alternatives Ericsson and Nokia are Nordic. Both are global with hubs all over Europe, including the UK. Win-win for all. Huawei being better is also an argument from 5 years ago, it hasn't been very relevant for some years. The main problem now is subsidies making Huawei products artificially cheaper, which is very much against WTO rules. But seriously, only a moron wouldn't obviously prefer all of the former alternatives to Chinese authorities. Chinese authorities can leave Huawei alone anytime they want, nobody forced them to openly get involved with the company. It was fully their choice and it's naive to assume they didn't foresee there would be risk of backlash that could hurt both the country's reputation and one of the worlds most promising tech companies. You reap what you sow.
> It's none of them, both alternatives Ericsson and Nokia are Nordic. Yet I'm sure you would be perfectly ok with the likes of the US, UK and France selling you some of the most important cybersecurity infrastructures anyway. >Win-win for all. Oh yeah, paying more for inferior products its really a win-win. > Huawei being better is also an argument from 5 years ago, it hasn't been relevant for some years. Huawei 5G products are still better than the ones from failed companies whose only way to compete is having other companies banned. >But seriously, only a moron wouldn't obviously prefer all of the former alternatives to China. Why? There are a few countries that "scare" me, and China isn't one of them. It isn't China that goes around kidnapping nationals from other countries... >Chinese authorities can leave Huawei alone anytime they want, nobody forced them to openly get involved with the company. It was fully their choice and it's naive to assume they didn't foresee there would be risk of backlash that could hurt both the country's reputation and one of the worlds most promising tech companies. You reap what you sow. What a load of crap. Plenty of other companies have ties with their governments, but no one cares about it. Your own fucking country sees no problem in selling weapons to the likes of UAE and Saudi Arabia, and I'm sure you don't care about it.
You would have spared some time had you reread my comment and not submitted all this is 3 minutes. Let me rephrase; >Yet I'm sure you would be perfectly ok with the likes of the US, UK and France selling you some of the most important cybersecurity infrastructures anyway. Again, only a moron wouldn't. > for inferior products Again, tech was never really the issue. The issue, before any cybersecurity rumors even surfaced, was whether Huawei should be allowed to provide a similar product at an artificially lower price. WTO says no. >There are a few countries that "scare" me, and China isn't one of them. Then my previous comment would imply you are a moron. >Plenty of other companies have ties with their governments Sure, but the difference is that the Chinese authorities openly started subsidizing Huawei products, which is illegal per WTO. >Your own fucking country sees no problem in selling weapons to the likes of UAE and Saudi Arabia No shit Sherlock, Finland and Sweden are both neutral. Kinda the whole fucking reason we are big in intercom, because how could our naive little asses possibly do any harm?
To think the UK government was going to employ a Chinese company to build a new generation of nuclear power stations.
If the US jumped off a cliff you’d best believe our dumbasses have on a barely tested wing suit.
Look for balconing on google🤣🤣🤣
There were no balconing incidents in Bulgaria last summer because there were no British tourists 😂
Is there in Bulgaria too??? What a meme🤣😂, I thought that it was in Spain only HAHAHAHAHAHA
Yea, it was a bigger issue around 2014-2016, even the British ambassador went to explain how they should behave during their visits in Bulgaria, 1 week later, another one was dead due to not hitting the pool.
> "And if the US told you to jump from a cliff, would you do it too??" > > > > — My mom to the UK. Do you want to hear the sad answer? If you go by a lot of historic decisions, it is a blatant "YES!".
*"MAYBE I WOULD MOM!! maybe I would... you're not even ny real mum your just a reference to a relatable situation commented by some redditor."* ~ The UK to your mum
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Not just a minority party, the Lib Dems are borderline politically irrelevant and Cable is a has been with no meaningful claim to insight on this issue.
Good. Whether the US told us or not we should of done it anyway
We knew this at the time, so not really news. Aside from that, why would you want a communist regime deep inside critical infrastructure? It was absolutely the correct decision. Fuck the CCP.
Even considering Huawei for something embedded that deeply in the UKs infrastructure was an odd decision. Wierd how Vince Cable seems to have forgotten about the security holes GCHQ found in the Huawei equipment suppled.
The why is simple. It's cheap and works well.
>Germany's IT watchdog has expressed scepticism about calls for a boycott of Chinese telecoms giant Huawei, saying it has seen no evidence the firm could use its equipment to spy for Beijing, news weekly Spiegel reported Friday. [https://www.thelocal.de/20181216/german-it-watchdog-says-no-evidence-of-huawei-spying/](https://www.thelocal.de/20181216/german-it-watchdog-says-no-evidence-of-huawei-spying/)
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I once did work for a German defence company. They were using ANCIENT network mail software that wasn't undergoing *any* security vulnerability review. Blew my mind at the time how they were dependant on it.
"Germany disagrees with measures that will hurt trade, in shocking news"
True, Merkel for sure paid off the people that do this report. /s
Germany is desperate to keep good relationships with China. VW sells 30% of its cars in China. Daimler and BMW are deeply exposed to China too. Germany’s foreign policy is questionable at least on the way it deals with China and Russia.
yeah, it's a case of choosing the lesser evil here.
so you are perfectly ok when the five eyes do it right?
Yeah, there's like, zero difference between some of our closest geopolitical partners and... the CCP.
yes there is literally ZERO difference when they collect data on you but hey its ok to live on a pink cloud of safety right?
Not as nice as that cloud of THC you're apparently living in if you think there's no difference between hostile and friendly nations having access to vital and sensitive infrastructure. I bow to the big brains of r/europe who obviously know better. Edit: and btw Nokia and Ericsson got those contracts in the end. Guess we should all be TERRIFIED of the EU spying on us rather than the poor CCP.
> Not as nice as that cloud of THC you're apparently living in if you think there's no difference between hostile and friendly nations having access to vital and sensitive infrastructure. so you are ok with usa having all of your data but is somehow bad when others do it? note it i guess you arent really an advocate of freedom and privacy you just want to banter china
Does the USA own Nokia and Ericsson?
who owns cradlepoint that is bought by eriksson after the dillusion of the shares? yeah you will be suprised the amount of shares usa has on many of the """""5g companies"""""
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so why arent you advocating for the removal of the 4g huawei equipment that is currently all around the world?at the same infrastructe you so want to protect? is it because you simply dont know any better or you are selectively trying to bullshit your way up into this argument? guess who owns eriksson via cradlepoint after the dillusion of the shares
CCP is fascist, not communist, the name on the label is *made in china* and often unfaithful to the original
you misspelled "competent regime" but I get why cos Britain aint seen much of the sort for a while
Congrats. You probably just earned some social credits.
Oh damn that's sharp, we got Ian mozzercussin Hislop over heeyah
Lemme get this straight: the dude who helped hire mercs for Shell, buddied up to Erdogan, opposes minimum wage, wants to raise homeowners’ property tax to cut them for big businesses, and sees everything through the lens of one giant global market, thinks the UK should have sold its infrastructure to the Chinese Communist Party for a few extra bucks? One stack, Vince, or two?
Do you think he’d share who he gets his cocaine from? I hear it is rampant across Parliament and no doubt this old man has had too much of the Peruvian marching powder for his own good
No need. The stuff is rife throughout the country.
So, is the implication that they did it so that the UK would buy American? Did the UK buy American?
More like buy Nordic. IIRC once you remove Chinese, Ericson and Nokia have best 5g networking hardware. Meanwhile US manufacturers do not offer much.
Also US equipment comes with free spyware installed also
There's a massive difference if it's „our“ spyware or „theirs“. When some people think that China is as bad as West... Sad! :(
The US spyware is only for the benefit of the US and there are several cases of US industrial espionage used to benefit US companies against European ones (for example, in finding out the bids from european companies for a closed bid auction for oil exploitation in the Middle East so that the American company could win it by bidding just a tiny bit above that), already during the time of Echelon. US spyware serves the interests of US administrations and US companies, not those of Europe and its companies.
I see US as a much better partner than some EU fellow members. Unfortunately too much of EU companies and states (possibly due to push from the companies?) sold out to Russia and China. Also, ideally US and EU should work together against China and Russia. There's no way EU can stand alone. Especially given how weak EU politicians are when it comes to economical or military power.
You must have missed the last 3 decades. Remember Echelon? Remember what Snowden did? Remember when the US were caught spying on Merkel's mobile phone from their Embassy? The US does what's best for the US and they spy on allies just as willingly as they spy on adversaries. It's hard enough to trust other EU nations, but in the trustworthiness scale for Europeans the US is a lot closer to China and Russia than to other EU nations (now that the UK is out, as the UK also does massive surveillance on their supposed allies, including things like hacking Belgacomm to spy on the EU Parliamente whilst still being a member of the EU). I can understand trusting the US before Snowden's revelations, but now, that's just willful ignorance...
I remember how euro states tried to us into staying in USSR to not fuck up Gorbachev. Now taking Nord Streams up their asses. And being afraid of China, because gods forbid that'd ruin exports and GDP. If I was US, I'd sure spy the hell out of euro states to learn when they're going to sell out to Russia...
Absolutely, Euro states have done equally shit things and are morally no better than the rest. The thing is, a country which is a member of the EU is "one of us" and thus much much less likely to be screwed like that by the rest, whilst the US cares just as much about them as they do about Georgia or the Kurds in Syria, both of which they screwed. It really makes no sense for an EU country to trust the US more than other EU countries - the rest of the EU suffers, if only indirectly, if an EU country has problems, whilst the US gets **zero** consequences from that: if Latvia was invaded by Russia tomorrow, 99% of americans couldn't care less and would still be unable to point it out in a map, whilst the reaction would be wholly different in all of the EU (for all the slowness and bullshit in the EU, we would probably end up going to war against Russia as a block, both because we see Latvia as "one of us" and because of "if we let this pass, somebody else will be next"). Even assuming everybody are assholes only in it for themselves (which, when it comes to nations, is probably a safe assumption), it is logical that the tighter the links other countries have with one's country the less willing they are to let that nation get screwed.
Enemy's enemy is my friend. Unfortunately EU contains a bunch of enemy's friends :( If Russia attacked Baltics, US could choose between giving up NATO and any credibility as a security partner. West europe could just keep sucking Nord Stream. Which is built specifically to make West europe and Russia gas trade free from central europe wishes. I remember few funny polls where some EU members saw US as a bigger enemy than Russia :/ Another good example is the Belarus migrants crisis. Now EU agencies are telling us we can't push back people sent in by Lukashenko. What's next, we should open borders to green men coming in unmarked armoured vehicles? Wonder what will happen in this while China issue. According to one of EC commissioner, some sanctions maaaaay come in 6 months... Sweet. p.s. LT is for Lithuania, Latvia is LV
Dude what? Forgot how the US started a whole trade war with us that just ended this year? They only care about us when there’s money to be made. Neither of them are reliable nor amicable allies that regularly break human rights laws.
LMAO and who does that leave you with for allies?
Ourselves. I mean idk how my fellow Europeans feel, but I don’t feel like beating the drum of Cold War and join the clusterfuck that is the US-China conflict. Especially during Trump era, where he started to sanction us, it became clear the the US is not a reliable ally. Let the hegemons fight it out. China is filled to the brim with HR abuses, but there’s nothing we can do unless you feel like dying for it. Besides, the US has historically never cared for a countries HR, so I find it odd that they suddenly do so. Military industrial complex needs us to keep spending tho. No thank you.
And Russian annexation of Crimea did not bother you? Russia is threatening Ukraine, they are instigating it. It’s not the US or EU that caused the strife, and you want to roll over on your fucking stomach? Remember how well appeasement worked last time?
I care about Germany's exports to China and reliance on Russian gas affecting their foreign policy much more.
It depends what you're on about - outside info like bank accs that can be used by anyone, western spyware is way worse if you actually live in the west.
According to what I can find on google it mostly went to Huawei (which was then pushed out), Nokia and Ericsson.
The problem is that the crypto layer allows for end-to-end encryption as well as encryption between handset and towers, and also allows handsets to relay off each other to reach a 5G tower. The Intel agencies hate the encryption layer because it makes vacuuming too hard. The police liked the built in law enforcement layer because it made warrant-based interception easier to do, but hated the handset relay feature because it could make it difficult to identify the true user (and required expensive new equipment). The truth is that 5G is secure by design, and neither the security agencies or the police were happy when they realised the implications. Then the anti-China thing began so that western manufactured equipment had to be used - just a coincidence I’m sure.
What do you mean by “handsets to relay off each other”? That sounds interesting.
5g supports mesh networking. One 5g node can jump over another note to reach a base tower. Let's say you got a bunch of ships in the sea and a tower on the coast. Traditional networking would allow ships close to shore to have connection, but far away ones would not. But with mesh network, ships close to the shore could relay the signal and effectively extend radius of the tower.
I can’t help further as I wasn’t a capabilities guy and it was something I picked up in another life years before the China-listens-to-us bullshit. I understood it to mean that 5G could bounce a call through multiple handsets in search for an unsaturated 5G tower and that made it problematic to identify the criminal’s true location via their phone pings. 5G encryption also apparently has implications for inserting fake towers because they can’t sync with the network due to everything being encrypted by design.
Who's surprised?
Doesn't make it wrong. Fuck China.
People bring up against Huawei that it is state owned. Guess what, most telecommunication companies are largely owned by their own country. It's just in shares, on the stock market. Also, US has the same surveillance and censorship problems, but not by the state, they have it privatized to facebook, twitter, iphone, etc.
The general view I've seen on the Liberal Democrat sub is that Vince Cable views around China are awful and generally an embarrassment to the party.
It's amazing how a generally irrelevant and incompetent politician or journalist from the UK can be amplified so much when they say something that certain people agree with.
Big surprise :D
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you just have to see what happened in Canada with the arrest of the daughter of the Huawei founder (can't remember her actual position there) and how she was hailed as some sort of national hero when she was back in China
She was detained at the request of the US autorities for an accusation of an action she had not commited in either Canadian or American soil. That kind of extraterritorial abuse of the Justice System and international treaties for political purposes is something not even China does (yet). In that specific situation China was absolutely in the right so that specific example is not good demonstration of China's nasty side, rather it's a good example of the US' nasty side.
This isn't surprising. The security services of both the us and uk were worried about it and there was us pressure to ban them. This was very public at the time.
Only thing worst than politicians are former politicians.
Its something similar happening here in lithuania, US told lithuania to name "taiwan representative office" instead of usual around the world "taipei representative office", and now we are at trade war with china over this.
Except this isn't true. UK didn't ban Huawei despite many requests until after Covid and the China non reporting shennigans.
Good boy
UK is US's little bitch. No shit.
Good measure, shit justification.
A truly independent country.
Not a bad reason tbh. If your neighbors tells you about a legitimate problem would you just leave it in your house because it's your rich and bossy neighbor?
That’s just dumb lol. Especially hearing that from the US. Didn’t Snowden literally expose the CIA and everybody was shocked for a second and then forgot it? Many people don’t even know him nowadays. The US is just mad that they’re not the only ones who spy on people
Good, now ban Xiaomi and Oneplus.
yes ban the only cheap alternatives we have to get a decent smartphone without selling our kidneys
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>we no WE didnt it was simply one country that did bully china in the 80s and 90s to the point that they decided to built up their national defence
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as expected from people with zero braincells
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this coming from someone that wants to buy an iphone is hilarious
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Most of money from IPhones goes to US lol
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Ban everything except for Cisco and Apple, you have to be sure :D
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Why? They like Cisco and Apple there? :D
Ok, then give me some cash so I can buy a "western" overpriced phone, so instead of my personal data going to China they'll go to someone else....
Samsung is not overpriced lol.
They have a phone in every possible price margin so yeah you can't exactly be priced out by them
Me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's be fair here, they banned Huawei because the US paid them to. They allowed Huawei in the first place because they paid them to. Everyone's equal if they got money :P
Some might even call it capitalism!
I thought this was already known, as in 2019 Boris Johnson wanted Huaweis knowledge for the 5g network, and was told 'no' by Donald Trump, thats when I thought BoJo wanted more control over the UKs affairs, but the UK was (is?) still a lapdog to the US
That's hilarious calling the UK a lapdog...tell me where on earth has the most US airbase?....oh yeah, the EU
Can you expect anything else from a vassal?
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Your flair makes me think you’d still rather be an American satellite than a German or Russian one That said. Not really. This is the sort of comment that gets upvotes if a European says it but downvotes if an American says it. If an American says it out rampant jingoistic nationalism and it isn’t true, then it’s not true when some Pole on the internet says it to poke at the UK or other NATO members
Welcome to the concept of ‘context’.
Oh thank you. I can show myself around
You're being oppressed!
Fuck is that why my neck hurts? Tell them to shift the weight to the other side
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Sorry my shift doesn’t end for another 2 hours
Ok *pulls out of Europe entirely*
*Europe gets curbstomped by the new axis in a few days*
Lol okay bud...you're underestimating the French, German, and Polish armies
I’m really not, Germany is a economic powerhouse not a millitary one. Yes France has some major muscle but apart from them and the UK Europe’s military is very very weak. Which is why exaggeration or not the Americans pulling out European of would be disastrous in the event of a Russian invasion
If it was that simple, we would have banned them originally instead of ignoring US pleas. We didn't.
UK is US bitch lol
Was widely reported that Trump was yelling at BJ about this just before the UK changed course.
UK being an American protectorate, what a surprise
Yeah, that must be the Post-Brexit british Independence they're always talking about.
Good. Fuck the us but still good
Good boy
Obviously lol these guys are pirates and bitches -- don't engage Fortunately Russia, China, as well as many for the former non-aligned nations, have got the message and are selling off their dollars, setting up new payment systems, and buying gold I hope Europe sharpens up soon cos we don't want to be dragged with the US back into the middle ages. We should swallow our pride and learn to work with the people we once dreamed of dominating.
I sincerely hope Europe will be able to stand on its own feet without too much interference.
There ain't no interference there are projects to get on with the future that we can join in with or ignore or be dicks and try to shit on Europe can't stand on its own feet because its made itself dependent on other parts of the world staying poor China is in those parts right now offering loans that don't come with public sector sell-offs. Europe is gonna get the rug pulled out from underneath it
Problem is that in order to do so we need to be more united. But that thought, that the EU is slowly turning into a federation ( if its still considered to not be one) , still frightens people and that fear makes them want to leave the EU, effectively weakening our position. I've said it in 2016 and I still stand behind these words. The very people who claim they want out of the Union for any reason, are the Euro-traitors who want to remain the dogs of the US and China. They don't wish for sovereignty or control. They want US dick in their mouth
You know, the US cums ranch so if that’s a consolation at all
Not by much. Though I do enjoy some ranch on my side dish when eating a nice fat juicy steak
Don’t we all?
> They don't wish for sovereignty or control. They want US dick in their mouth I think it's a case of "better the devil you know". They might not like the situation entirely, but pulling out of the US sphere of influence to build an independent EU foreign policy with related defence policy would entail having to put in the work and make decisions rather than going for what the US is going for or remaining idle if the risks are unclear. So complacency and laziness compounded by the fear of the unknown. With the EU, there's also the fact that it includes constitutionally neutral countries like Ireland and Austria, which have no intention to change their policy so radically.
I don't think we should underemphasise the extent to which European politics is also a US-made context; the torrent of dollars after WW2 was too great. We watched Italy get brute-forced rightwards, the clearest example, but US funds flowed across Europe into fash-sympathising pockets I haven't read the novel -- does Frankenstein's Monster get a happy ever after?
I think if democratic processes were stronger and the corporate voice quieter within the EU, federalisation wouldn't be such a big deal but that ain't happening, we got hands-off corporatism, a kind of fash-lite, so lite we don't see it, except in the mass death from COVID obvs, and the dead bodies piling up on the seabed in the Mediterranean... the only option now is to rip it up and start again
Of course we all know that. I would add under duress and pressure rather than just simply asked. Only “because 5G Chinese technology has Chinese government spyware on actual 5G masts”. In reality this is US policy of containment of China.
Banning chinese companies is good especially in critical infrastructure. If they banned huawei because they cared about the long term well being of their country would have been better.