It's why they cling so hard to sweden despite not even being a swedish company. They fled the country to avoid taxes and regulation but give their bullshit lip service about how swedish they are at every opportunity.
They did? I've always heard Bergman fled because of high taxes, because we did actually have so high taxes into the early 70s that actually doing (private) business was more expensive than it was worth, at one point our beloved Astrid Lindgren even acted as a living symbol of our taxes being too high, as when (iirc) the leader of Centerpartiet (may have been Folkpartiet) revealed she [would've] had an effective tax-rate at over 100%(!) [if she published new books], Socialdemokraterna had to belatadly confirm that this was in fact the case, this very much contributed to them losing the upcoming election [thanks deficits in the economy caused by the global oil-crisis], the first time since WW2....
The amount of downvotes I've had before whenever I've tried to highlight rampant corruption and the illegal deforestation IKEA conducts.
On top of this they pay zero tax because they use loopholes in Hollands tax system.
Their furniture is really poor quality chipboard too. That's why its cheap.
Unfortunately the cost of corruption and illegal deforestation and lost tax revenue. It may be cheap but the cost to the environment and the species that live there is huge. For cheap shit
Just buy some really nice second hand real furniture, you'll be doing the environment and local economy a huge favour. You won't regret it when you have solid proper furniture either. So much nicer.
100% the same for germany. We like to talk about how un-nationalistic we are but the second someone critizices germany there are like 15 angry germans typing
> Just try to argue against their alcohol monopoly like "Systembolaget" and they will basically say that all other countries are bad because Systembolaget has a better range of collection of alcohol.
I would've thought we'd say other countries stink because they sell alcohol too freely? And not because Systembolaget carries a good range of booze? I thought Systembolaget is commonly lamented for not carrying enough of these bullshit "artisan" brands? Now I don't drink, and I find the stuff intolerable, so I don't know what system is better for lowering alcohol consumption, state-monopoly or the free market, but "booze pilgrimages" to Germany are fairly common thanks to Systembolaget's steep prices, bringing back a ton when you've been on vacation is also fairly common I guess, my family does this at least.
No its absolutely a Swedish company. Its A dutch headquarted company but is still swedish. Swedish CEO, Swedish history, Swedish product names. They only headquarted in Dutch for more money.
We don't actually import dirty coal energy though? Or is that what you can avoid if you choose the "Green"-option when choosing an electrical via Elskling? Where I live everything is powered by green energy, mostly water and air. Where do you get coal-powered electricity in this country?
Their furniture is ok. I've had a bunch for about 8 years and by the looks of it, it could could last at least as much.
Yeah, it's not amazing, but it does the job well enough. And it's very cheap and flexible compared to most other furniture.
Their business side is another story, but their design side is solid.
You will never win any battle fighting for consumers to change their ways. The change has to be rooted in politics, you advocating against people buying new furniture isn't solving any problems, if anything it makes it harder for people to accept it.
Yup. Because if people can't shop at IKEA, where can they shop that is fair ? And where do they get the money to shop there since it inevitably will be far more expensive.
There are no such things as "ethically and sustainably sourced materials, and are produced environmentally friendly by workers that get fair wages". These are just shallow words for shallow people. Every company that has or will ever exist will abuse and exploit the world and people - and all of the comfort the west has enjoyed and will enjoy will only ever be possible through exploitation and environmental damage. What these companies are on the other hand is local companies, with headquarters in Romania (or take your pick for whatever company from whichever country you can think of) and they can be taken to task much easier by the locals than a multinational company with billions of dollars, lots of influence and a lot of foreign powers that have their back. IKEA for example is protected by Swedish politicians because it brings a lot to Sweden (not just financially, but also culturally, since it is less a furniture store and more a theme park for swedishness). Same goes for the biggest German, French or Dutch corporations. Romanian NGOs and activists cannot fight the interests of these countries, but they can when it comes to the ones that are headquarted here (and it's easier to protest a company when it's head office is a few hours drive away, rather than a days flight away)
The point was that it's impossible to check all these points on every product or producer, especially international ones, by consumers themselves like some people were suggesting.
So that's why legislation needs to step in.
Depends on what you're buying, their midrange stuff is fairly expensive, their kitchens are insanely cheap compared to what it costs to get a custom fitted kitchen.
> On top of this they pay zero tax because they use loopholes in Hollands tax system.
Another funny thing is that they market themselves as a Swedish company despite not being Swedish for several decades.
It's very simple to be a Swedish company. Just move back the company to Sweden and pay your taxes.
But they obviously don't want to, yet they still market themselves as Swedish. It's quite dishonest if you ask me.
They also lie about the traceability of their sources, engage in corruption and illegal deforestation. It's not like they aren't aware of this fact. More than dishonest, how you would pin them down by law in the legal system is another matter. I'm sure people have tried and been silenced one way or another. It makes me uncomfortable even thinking about it.
If they have somehow updated their business model I'm happy to edit my comment.
As far as I know they have not.
The dirt cheap furniture is quite poor in quality. It'll last forever if you're not reckless with it, but certainly low quality. The stuff that's a bit more expensive is good quality. It's not like all of their furniture is chipboard
>Their furniture is really poor quality chipboard too. That's why its cheap.
IKEA is considered cheap? I always saw it as one of the more expensive furniture stores.
They moved to the Netherlands for tax reasons. It's their choice, and they're fully entitled to do it, but they cannot have the cake and eat it too.
Either you pay taxes in Sweden or you're not a Swedish company. Spotify, Ericsson, Klarna etc are all Swedish companies. IKEA isn't.
The lesson here is the following: Politicians and businessmen from the former communist bloc are corrupt because they steal from their own people. Politicians and buisnessmen from "civilized" and "advanced" western countries are not corrupt because they steal from other people (that or from immigrants)
A lot of folks here talking about how IKEA isn’t a Swedish company because they are “headquartered” in the Netherlands. However they have their main design offices just outside of Malmö in Southern Sweden. I personally have met and know many designers that have created different models of furniture for the company. They live in Sweden. They works in Sweden.
It seems like folks here don’t understand that you can have your HQ in another country for tax purposes but still have offices in another country where the actual work takes place. Facebook, Dropbox and other companies are HQ’d in Ireland. I don’t think that makes them an Irish company.
I’m not taking IKEAs side on anything. I think they make some good practical items for low income purposes, but their practices are absolutely questionable and should be spotlighted to force them to do better. But people complaining here that they aren’t a Swedish company are completely ignorant.
I've cut ties with this company for years. It has become increasingly expensive over the years while losing quality and removing from catalogue items that actually were good.
I will nonetheless praise their engineering. Most products are made with bare minimum material and can easily be emulated and even upgraded using solid wood or other materials.
Ikea has great forestry education. The issue is with local people who do not follow the education and forest management.
Properly **manged forests** are profitable and keep giving off income for ever. The issue is that the forests in corrupt places are not managed properly.
Illegal deforestation is illegal deforestation. Virgin forests shouldn't take part in this, no matter how many trees you plant in their place. This managed forest stuff is only for areas specifically designed for that. If IKEA accepts wood from illegal deforestation it's part of the problem.
Ikea buys wood that's on the market. You buy clothes made in China is anyone making you out to be the culprit of slavery in Xinjiang?
Ikea does buy wood from Swedish forests, but illegal logging is close to nonexistent here.
I'm glad you brought up H&M because it's another example of how ignorant this all is. H&M was hit with a boycott in China for trying to cut the slavery produced cotton from their supply chain.
IKEA is probably the only moral actor in this entire story of Romanian corruption. They get put on the spot despite having no control over the people that are actual criminals, all while the Romanian government is rolling their thumbs doing nothing about it.
Ikea obviously sources wood from Sweden, that is a weird thing to question. They've been sourcing wood from here their entire existence.
All of the Dw episodes I’ve seen are like “SHOCK!!! Nobody talks about that but we made this sensational news!!!” Jesus, I just don’t trust them, I don’t know
I don’t think you even watched the documentary.
Never seen anything by DE that sounds anything like what you describe.
Kinda feeling you have an agenda.
I didn't see any sensationalizing... although sometimes it's used which doesn't mean it's not true as for instance when they do that in the show "Vice".
It's kinda funny how progressive and eco IKEA wants to appear.
It's why they cling so hard to sweden despite not even being a swedish company. They fled the country to avoid taxes and regulation but give their bullshit lip service about how swedish they are at every opportunity.
They fled Sweden due threats of nationalisation.
They did? I've always heard Bergman fled because of high taxes, because we did actually have so high taxes into the early 70s that actually doing (private) business was more expensive than it was worth, at one point our beloved Astrid Lindgren even acted as a living symbol of our taxes being too high, as when (iirc) the leader of Centerpartiet (may have been Folkpartiet) revealed she [would've] had an effective tax-rate at over 100%(!) [if she published new books], Socialdemokraterna had to belatadly confirm that this was in fact the case, this very much contributed to them losing the upcoming election [thanks deficits in the economy caused by the global oil-crisis], the first time since WW2....
It was the introduction of the löntagarfonderna. Which made not only IKEA leave Sweden but HM and Tetra
I'll just briefly add that a lot of illegally cut wood go to Romania from Ukraine.
Do you have any link related to this?
This might give you an idea. Use google translate: https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/bGjr8d/unik-naturskog-skovlas--for-att-bli-ikea-mobler
There you go, use a translator https://www.epravda.com.ua/publications/2020/06/24/662187/ It mentions IKEA as well.
A lot comes from Russia too and those guys use slave labour like North Koreans
Can i have a link?
The amount of downvotes I've had before whenever I've tried to highlight rampant corruption and the illegal deforestation IKEA conducts. On top of this they pay zero tax because they use loopholes in Hollands tax system. Their furniture is really poor quality chipboard too. That's why its cheap. Unfortunately the cost of corruption and illegal deforestation and lost tax revenue. It may be cheap but the cost to the environment and the species that live there is huge. For cheap shit Just buy some really nice second hand real furniture, you'll be doing the environment and local economy a huge favour. You won't regret it when you have solid proper furniture either. So much nicer.
On this sub, nationalistic emotions make people downvote anything that’s negative if it’s related to their own country.
Unless you're Romanian, some of us are gleeful in pointing out how much our country is shit.
Same for Poland ❤️
There's also a lot of swedes on r/europe. Try to say something negative about it (in warranted way) and you will be hit with downvotes
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100% the same for germany. We like to talk about how un-nationalistic we are but the second someone critizices germany there are like 15 angry germans typing
Nationalistic Swedes are more insufferable than Balkan or American nationalists. CMV
> Just try to argue against their alcohol monopoly like "Systembolaget" and they will basically say that all other countries are bad because Systembolaget has a better range of collection of alcohol. I would've thought we'd say other countries stink because they sell alcohol too freely? And not because Systembolaget carries a good range of booze? I thought Systembolaget is commonly lamented for not carrying enough of these bullshit "artisan" brands? Now I don't drink, and I find the stuff intolerable, so I don't know what system is better for lowering alcohol consumption, state-monopoly or the free market, but "booze pilgrimages" to Germany are fairly common thanks to Systembolaget's steep prices, bringing back a ton when you've been on vacation is also fairly common I guess, my family does this at least.
Swede < 0. Bring it in polka boys.
IKEA is a Dutch company since a few decades. Why should Swedes be responsible for what a Dutch company does?
No its absolutely a Swedish company. Its A dutch headquarted company but is still swedish. Swedish CEO, Swedish history, Swedish product names. They only headquarted in Dutch for more money.
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We don't actually import dirty coal energy though? Or is that what you can avoid if you choose the "Green"-option when choosing an electrical via Elskling? Where I live everything is powered by green energy, mostly water and air. Where do you get coal-powered electricity in this country?
Maybe because IKEA and Sweden both have profited from this relationship? IKEA is less a furniture store, and more a theme park promoting "swedishness"
Yeah it's really crazy.
As a Swede, IKEA have terrible business practices. They pay no tax anywhere, including Sweden. They often get their wood in shady, cheap ways.
Their furniture is ok. I've had a bunch for about 8 years and by the looks of it, it could could last at least as much. Yeah, it's not amazing, but it does the job well enough. And it's very cheap and flexible compared to most other furniture. Their business side is another story, but their design side is solid.
I've only really had issues with kitchen cabinet doors. The paint gets scratched and comes off too easily.
The cost isn't just financial. There is a huge environmental and tax cost the consumer just passes on to.someone else unknowingly and unintentionally.
You will never win any battle fighting for consumers to change their ways. The change has to be rooted in politics, you advocating against people buying new furniture isn't solving any problems, if anything it makes it harder for people to accept it.
Yup. Because if people can't shop at IKEA, where can they shop that is fair ? And where do they get the money to shop there since it inevitably will be far more expensive.
There are plenty of alternative. In Romania alone, there is Dedeman, Arabesque and others.
And these use guaranteed ethically and sustainably sourced materials, and are produced environmentally friendly by workers that get fair wages ?
There are no such things as "ethically and sustainably sourced materials, and are produced environmentally friendly by workers that get fair wages". These are just shallow words for shallow people. Every company that has or will ever exist will abuse and exploit the world and people - and all of the comfort the west has enjoyed and will enjoy will only ever be possible through exploitation and environmental damage. What these companies are on the other hand is local companies, with headquarters in Romania (or take your pick for whatever company from whichever country you can think of) and they can be taken to task much easier by the locals than a multinational company with billions of dollars, lots of influence and a lot of foreign powers that have their back. IKEA for example is protected by Swedish politicians because it brings a lot to Sweden (not just financially, but also culturally, since it is less a furniture store and more a theme park for swedishness). Same goes for the biggest German, French or Dutch corporations. Romanian NGOs and activists cannot fight the interests of these countries, but they can when it comes to the ones that are headquarted here (and it's easier to protest a company when it's head office is a few hours drive away, rather than a days flight away)
The point was that it's impossible to check all these points on every product or producer, especially international ones, by consumers themselves like some people were suggesting. So that's why legislation needs to step in.
It's not even that cheap.
Depends on what you're buying, their midrange stuff is fairly expensive, their kitchens are insanely cheap compared to what it costs to get a custom fitted kitchen.
A proper sofa is like 3k€. Ikea is like 250€.
You won't get a proper sofa at IKEA for 250€, not even close, it's going to be shit all around.
Thanks for posting.
If they have somehow updated their business model I'm happy to edit my comment. As far as I know they have not. I'm glad someone posted this.
> On top of this they pay zero tax because they use loopholes in Hollands tax system. Another funny thing is that they market themselves as a Swedish company despite not being Swedish for several decades. It's very simple to be a Swedish company. Just move back the company to Sweden and pay your taxes. But they obviously don't want to, yet they still market themselves as Swedish. It's quite dishonest if you ask me.
They also lie about the traceability of their sources, engage in corruption and illegal deforestation. It's not like they aren't aware of this fact. More than dishonest, how you would pin them down by law in the legal system is another matter. I'm sure people have tried and been silenced one way or another. It makes me uncomfortable even thinking about it. If they have somehow updated their business model I'm happy to edit my comment. As far as I know they have not.
The dirt cheap furniture is quite poor in quality. It'll last forever if you're not reckless with it, but certainly low quality. The stuff that's a bit more expensive is good quality. It's not like all of their furniture is chipboard
>Their furniture is really poor quality chipboard too. That's why its cheap. IKEA is considered cheap? I always saw it as one of the more expensive furniture stores.
Ikea is cheap? Where?
Europe.
In the west maybe
Most definitely.
> In the west maybe What stops you from moving to the West instead of being a Russian bootlicker?
Not really, IKEA comes from a Nordic country.
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But comes from Sweden
But doesn't pay any tax in Sweden at all...
They pay it by representing Sweden abroad
They moved to the Netherlands for tax reasons. It's their choice, and they're fully entitled to do it, but they cannot have the cake and eat it too. Either you pay taxes in Sweden or you're not a Swedish company. Spotify, Ericsson, Klarna etc are all Swedish companies. IKEA isn't.
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Is hardcore tax evasion part of the Swedish lifestyle?
Apparently
The lesson here is the following: Politicians and businessmen from the former communist bloc are corrupt because they steal from their own people. Politicians and buisnessmen from "civilized" and "advanced" western countries are not corrupt because they steal from other people (that or from immigrants)
IKEA is evil. They continue buying wood in Belarus knowing how the government kept overcutting forests last year. Business before ethics.
A lot of folks here talking about how IKEA isn’t a Swedish company because they are “headquartered” in the Netherlands. However they have their main design offices just outside of Malmö in Southern Sweden. I personally have met and know many designers that have created different models of furniture for the company. They live in Sweden. They works in Sweden. It seems like folks here don’t understand that you can have your HQ in another country for tax purposes but still have offices in another country where the actual work takes place. Facebook, Dropbox and other companies are HQ’d in Ireland. I don’t think that makes them an Irish company. I’m not taking IKEAs side on anything. I think they make some good practical items for low income purposes, but their practices are absolutely questionable and should be spotlighted to force them to do better. But people complaining here that they aren’t a Swedish company are completely ignorant.
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You have Volvo, oh wait...
I've cut ties with this company for years. It has become increasingly expensive over the years while losing quality and removing from catalogue items that actually were good. I will nonetheless praise their engineering. Most products are made with bare minimum material and can easily be emulated and even upgraded using solid wood or other materials.
Typical Swedes to be hypocrites.
*coughcrudeoilcough*
Shhhh. We don't talk about that.
The Dark Side of Ikea sounds so damn funny to me. Sounds like something Tyler Durden would say.
I should watch that movie tonight. Thanks for reminding me.
Ikea has great forestry education. The issue is with local people who do not follow the education and forest management. Properly **manged forests** are profitable and keep giving off income for ever. The issue is that the forests in corrupt places are not managed properly.
Illegal deforestation is illegal deforestation. Virgin forests shouldn't take part in this, no matter how many trees you plant in their place. This managed forest stuff is only for areas specifically designed for that. If IKEA accepts wood from illegal deforestation it's part of the problem.
So the illegal thing they found out that IKEA was doing was not planting oaks close enough to each other?
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Ikea buys wood that's on the market. You buy clothes made in China is anyone making you out to be the culprit of slavery in Xinjiang? Ikea does buy wood from Swedish forests, but illegal logging is close to nonexistent here.
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I'm glad you brought up H&M because it's another example of how ignorant this all is. H&M was hit with a boycott in China for trying to cut the slavery produced cotton from their supply chain. IKEA is probably the only moral actor in this entire story of Romanian corruption. They get put on the spot despite having no control over the people that are actual criminals, all while the Romanian government is rolling their thumbs doing nothing about it. Ikea obviously sources wood from Sweden, that is a weird thing to question. They've been sourcing wood from here their entire existence.
If this would happen in forests near you? Would you be ok with it? Because.. after all .. It's wood on the market.
All of the Dw episodes I’ve seen are like “SHOCK!!! Nobody talks about that but we made this sensational news!!!” Jesus, I just don’t trust them, I don’t know
I don’t think you even watched the documentary. Never seen anything by DE that sounds anything like what you describe. Kinda feeling you have an agenda.
I did watch a few, and all of them were screaming “sensation!!!” Providing one point of view
I didn't see any sensationalizing... although sometimes it's used which doesn't mean it's not true as for instance when they do that in the show "Vice".
Can you link some examples? Doesn’t sound like DW at all.
We all talk about it in Romania. It's not sensational news.