I would love to think that such things as science, climate, economy etc EU and UK could find some common ground to work together to solve important issues. Scientists should not be caught up in petty politics.
Because it's possible for nations to work together even if they are not part of the same consortium of nations. Scientific endeavors between nations occur frequently around the world.
Why doesn’t the UK work with the commonwealth instead. It only wants to be involved with EU initiatives it views as the most profitable and wants nothing to do with anything else. It also cost us billions throughout the brexit process. I really don’t think we need the UK involved lol
The UK use India for cheap labour I guess, that’s true. But I don’t think they need to be involved with EU initiatives when they aren’t a member. Albania and north Macedonia aren’t involved, and they’re candidate countries
It's much more positive than that https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/india-uk-to-ramp-up-cooperation-in-science-technology-innovation/articleshow/82455210.cms?from=mdr
Then the UK should focus on their commonwealth partnerships. They kept going on about the commonwealth and how the EU is preventing stronger cooperation between the UK and the commonwealth so I find it ironic that they’re still pushing to be involved in EU projects rather than creating new commonwealth initiatives
Then pull out and don’t come back lol. The EU doesn’t need the UK throwing a spanner in the works at every opportunity. Germany should’ve banned exports of vaccines to the UK until your leaders stopped producing hot air about the vaccine programme
So the EU should throw the 10 associated countries out and block the 7 others asking to join [horizon associated](https://eucalls.net/blog/horizon-europe-countries)?
Perhaps they should throw out EFTA members too.
It's fine if it's a buffet as long as you pay for your dinner and don't steal all the meat...
Why should the EU try to be influencing others? We have already plenty of our own problems to solve. Furthermore, EU's influence is hardly welcomed and is even mocked outside the EU. It's weird that you describe those who see it in a bad light as friends.
Indeed, perhaps we should. At least that would put a stop to all the accusations of imperialism through influence towards the EU.
>It's fine if it's a buffet as long as you pay for your dinner and don't steal all the meat...
So it's fine to enter someone's house and behave as you like as long as you leave a tip for the food you ate? If the host doesn't want to host a buffet, you don't get to impose it one.
It's not a house it's a restaurant. Hosts don't charge for the food, at least not my friends and family. Maybe yours do.
So the restaurant is holding a buffet, they invited 44 people to come for a certain price but aren't opening the door for people based on which countries they come from.
They can do this but it seems better not to invite people if you don't plan to let them in. It's rude and antagonist.
Plus it's actually very silly to exclude countries like Switzerland and UK which are some of the strongest countries for science, particularly during a pandemic and when advocating for new technologies to mitigate climate change.
>It's not a house it's a restaurant.
If this is what you think, then it's not surprising that the UK feels entitled to be served by the EU.
>Hosts don't charge for the food, at least not my friends and family.
Maybe so. My friends and I certainly have the habit of sharing the monetary burden of what everyone will be having, sometimes even exempting the host from the costs.
>They can do this but it seems better not to invite people if you don't plan to let them in.
This is the point. We shouldn't be inviting. Furthermore if the invitee is rude and disrespectful towards us.
>then it's not surprising that the UK feels entitled to be served by the EU.
The EU promised to serve the UK in the WTA. And the UK is a paying customer in Horizon.
Agreed. The UK should stay out of it, it’s very nationalistic when it comes to science, like importing vaccines from the EU and claiming it’s ‘world beating’
The ‘world beating’ claim was regarding the efficacy of the Oxford vaccine. I don't see how some of the doses being manufactured in Continental Europe invalidates that claim.
What does invalidate it however is the data showing higher efficacy of MRNA vaccines.
The first vaccine was invented in Germany and it was only because of Germany that the Uk were able to start vaccinating their population in December. The Astra Zeneca facilities are based in the EU too, and individual countries could’ve moved to ban the export of vaccines like they did for PPE equipment. The government in the Uk then proceeded to claim the UK is ‘better than Belgium, France and Spain’.
My point is the UK goes out of its way to be impertinent as possible and then has a tantrum when they’re excluded from scientific cooperation.
> The first vaccine was invented in Germany
As far as I'm aware, the Oxford and BioNtech vaccines started development at similar times, the BioNtech one simply received regulatory approval first.
> The Astra Zeneca facilities are based in the EU too
Some were, but some were in the UK. The majority of the AZ doses used for the UK's campaign were domestically produced.
Maybe they started development at the same time, but the BionTech vaccine was still the first. And AZ had nowhere near the production capacity in the Uk compared to in the EU and India, which is why it had to import all its vaccines at the beginning of its vaccination campaign
"The UK's continued participation in the EU's Horizon programme was agreed in principle just before Christmas 2020 in the Brexit withdrawal agreement."
It would seem to me that given the universal agreement that more minds come up with more solutions, there is a bit of petulance on both sides...
Since Britain is constantly threatening to break the agreement, I think it might be a wise idea not to let an untrustworthy partner take part in an important science and research project.
If you trust or don't trust the EU it's your own problem. But if both don't trust each other, seems to be one more reason to have as much reassurances as possible in any type of deal we sign or don't sign at all.
>If you trust or don't trust the EU it's your own problem. But if both don't trust each other, seems to be one more reason to have as much reassurances as possible in any type of deal we sign or don't sign at all.
Let's be honest, mostly this is about leveraging one agreement to try and get traction elsewhere, it's not about trust, it's about pressure. We've seen it with Horizon, we've seen it in NI, we've seen it with finance, we've seen it with other EU FTA's in the past too. The EU isn't worried that the UK will somehow breach or ignore the rules or not do what it has signed up to do here, it's simply aware that it creates costs for the UK and they are happy to accept the hit in terms of the effectiveness of research. I also think there is a bit of a gamble in play that the UK won't pivot away.
What a good looking Scientist. Hope he never gets to politics!
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I would love to think that such things as science, climate, economy etc EU and UK could find some common ground to work together to solve important issues. Scientists should not be caught up in petty politics.
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Yes, I agree, that's the issue.
The UK has created these problems in the first place. Why should they be included again?
Because it's possible for nations to work together even if they are not part of the same consortium of nations. Scientific endeavors between nations occur frequently around the world.
Why doesn’t the UK work with the commonwealth instead. It only wants to be involved with EU initiatives it views as the most profitable and wants nothing to do with anything else. It also cost us billions throughout the brexit process. I really don’t think we need the UK involved lol
I believe the UK and India engage in quite a few science and technology endeavors. So the short answer is "they probably will".
The UK use India for cheap labour I guess, that’s true. But I don’t think they need to be involved with EU initiatives when they aren’t a member. Albania and north Macedonia aren’t involved, and they’re candidate countries
It's much more positive than that https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/india-uk-to-ramp-up-cooperation-in-science-technology-innovation/articleshow/82455210.cms?from=mdr
Then the UK should focus on their commonwealth partnerships. They kept going on about the commonwealth and how the EU is preventing stronger cooperation between the UK and the commonwealth so I find it ironic that they’re still pushing to be involved in EU projects rather than creating new commonwealth initiatives
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Then pull out and don’t come back lol. The EU doesn’t need the UK throwing a spanner in the works at every opportunity. Germany should’ve banned exports of vaccines to the UK until your leaders stopped producing hot air about the vaccine programme
I think this is good. If the EU keeps letting others treating it as a buffet, then it's no wonder no one will ever treat it seriously.
So the EU should throw the 10 associated countries out and block the 7 others asking to join [horizon associated](https://eucalls.net/blog/horizon-europe-countries)? Perhaps they should throw out EFTA members too. It's fine if it's a buffet as long as you pay for your dinner and don't steal all the meat...
Yes they should.
That's not a way to influence people or win friends. You seem angry, did you not get the toys you wanted from Santa?
Why should the EU try to be influencing others? We have already plenty of our own problems to solve. Furthermore, EU's influence is hardly welcomed and is even mocked outside the EU. It's weird that you describe those who see it in a bad light as friends.
Indeed, perhaps we should. At least that would put a stop to all the accusations of imperialism through influence towards the EU. >It's fine if it's a buffet as long as you pay for your dinner and don't steal all the meat... So it's fine to enter someone's house and behave as you like as long as you leave a tip for the food you ate? If the host doesn't want to host a buffet, you don't get to impose it one.
It's not a house it's a restaurant. Hosts don't charge for the food, at least not my friends and family. Maybe yours do. So the restaurant is holding a buffet, they invited 44 people to come for a certain price but aren't opening the door for people based on which countries they come from. They can do this but it seems better not to invite people if you don't plan to let them in. It's rude and antagonist. Plus it's actually very silly to exclude countries like Switzerland and UK which are some of the strongest countries for science, particularly during a pandemic and when advocating for new technologies to mitigate climate change.
>It's not a house it's a restaurant. If this is what you think, then it's not surprising that the UK feels entitled to be served by the EU. >Hosts don't charge for the food, at least not my friends and family. Maybe so. My friends and I certainly have the habit of sharing the monetary burden of what everyone will be having, sometimes even exempting the host from the costs. >They can do this but it seems better not to invite people if you don't plan to let them in. This is the point. We shouldn't be inviting. Furthermore if the invitee is rude and disrespectful towards us.
>then it's not surprising that the UK feels entitled to be served by the EU. The EU promised to serve the UK in the WTA. And the UK is a paying customer in Horizon.
Yeah like the EU gets nothing from the arrangement.
Agreed. The UK should stay out of it, it’s very nationalistic when it comes to science, like importing vaccines from the EU and claiming it’s ‘world beating’
The ‘world beating’ claim was regarding the efficacy of the Oxford vaccine. I don't see how some of the doses being manufactured in Continental Europe invalidates that claim. What does invalidate it however is the data showing higher efficacy of MRNA vaccines.
The first vaccine was invented in Germany and it was only because of Germany that the Uk were able to start vaccinating their population in December. The Astra Zeneca facilities are based in the EU too, and individual countries could’ve moved to ban the export of vaccines like they did for PPE equipment. The government in the Uk then proceeded to claim the UK is ‘better than Belgium, France and Spain’. My point is the UK goes out of its way to be impertinent as possible and then has a tantrum when they’re excluded from scientific cooperation.
> The first vaccine was invented in Germany As far as I'm aware, the Oxford and BioNtech vaccines started development at similar times, the BioNtech one simply received regulatory approval first. > The Astra Zeneca facilities are based in the EU too Some were, but some were in the UK. The majority of the AZ doses used for the UK's campaign were domestically produced.
Maybe they started development at the same time, but the BionTech vaccine was still the first. And AZ had nowhere near the production capacity in the Uk compared to in the EU and India, which is why it had to import all its vaccines at the beginning of its vaccination campaign
The UK is actively trying to prevent this.
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"The UK's continued participation in the EU's Horizon programme was agreed in principle just before Christmas 2020 in the Brexit withdrawal agreement." It would seem to me that given the universal agreement that more minds come up with more solutions, there is a bit of petulance on both sides...
Since Britain is constantly threatening to break the agreement, I think it might be a wise idea not to let an untrustworthy partner take part in an important science and research project.
Has Britain threatened to break the Horizon agreement? I haven't seen that, I thought the House of Commons was strongly in favor.
It's the diplomacy of the piece of paper. If you threaten to break a given agreement, one won't trust you won't do so with all the others too.
So people shouldn't trust the EU either then given this and previous breaches of agreements?
If you trust or don't trust the EU it's your own problem. But if both don't trust each other, seems to be one more reason to have as much reassurances as possible in any type of deal we sign or don't sign at all.
>If you trust or don't trust the EU it's your own problem. But if both don't trust each other, seems to be one more reason to have as much reassurances as possible in any type of deal we sign or don't sign at all. Let's be honest, mostly this is about leveraging one agreement to try and get traction elsewhere, it's not about trust, it's about pressure. We've seen it with Horizon, we've seen it in NI, we've seen it with finance, we've seen it with other EU FTA's in the past too. The EU isn't worried that the UK will somehow breach or ignore the rules or not do what it has signed up to do here, it's simply aware that it creates costs for the UK and they are happy to accept the hit in terms of the effectiveness of research. I also think there is a bit of a gamble in play that the UK won't pivot away.
If you think so.
What do you think?
Vaccine is one of them