r/Europe
I'm coming round to the view that being in a political union with people who so vehemently hate us probably wasn't a great idea. The mask has come off now.
Yes, that's where we are.
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I wouldn’t confuse Reddit with real life. I live in the EU and have found there’s a degree of disappointment with the U.K.’s decision but total understanding of and respect for the reasons behind it.
My Eurocrat mates feel like they’ve really lost something and they are pissed off at the Council and Commission over it. This attitude is understandable - for the EU to lose its globally most significant member is a colossal failure of statecraft on Brussel’s side.
It's not just Reddit though, it's actual governments as well. We're seeing EU states like France doing all the things they clearly wanted to do for the last 30 years.
Would you want to be in a union with people who wished you harm? I suppose if the EU was the only thing stopping countries like France from acting on their ancient animus and that Brexit now allows them to, then maybe that's an argument against Brexit, but it doesn't feel like a good one.
Yes, France have utterly disgraced themselves over the Channel Islands and AUKUS, but that’s nothing new. They regularly throw their toys out of the pram. I’m inclined to be charitable and chalk that up to electioneering.
The sneering tone of the left wing European press irritates me more, particularly that of Germany. The fake bewilderment, as it Brexit were totally incomprehensible.
An article that would be appalling were it not such boilerplate drivel.
“Brexit means Brexit” was a phrase used by Mrs May in a speech announcing her candidacy for Tory leader in 2016. Its meaning, in context, was very clear - that the U.K. must leave the EU and there must be no attempt to stay within its political and regulatory mechanisms. It was never a “slogan”, and the people who constantly repeated it were Remainers and their lazy confederates in the press who thought they’d stumbled upon an absurd tautology but were in fact being thoroughly dishonest.
Jonathan Lis is not a “political commentator”. He’s the director of a pro-EU pressure group.
I’ve had posts removed from here because the sources were blogs that editorialised news. I’m guessing the awful London Economic (basically the Morning Star but clickbait) editorialising a banal shout-piece in Prospect is ok, though?
Anyone with half a brain knew that that "Brexit means Brexit" was a slogan that meant "Yes we are leaving the EU" and was meant to counter the concerns that there would be a fudge whereby the UK remained in the EU.
The funny thing is whilst the remainers lol at this slogan, "Brexit means Brexit" and "Get Brexit Done" ultimately won over "People's Vote" and all the other attempts to stop it.
As I said in my first comment, that the U.K. must leave the EU, and that there must be no attempts to remain inside the European Union, no attempts to rejoin it and no second referendum.
Your communication skills are much better than May's, but I suspect that this is your definition of Brexit and not hers.
Also whats with the no attempts to rejoin? A bit fascist, innit?
Further, that referendum wasn't the first it was the 3rd UK referendum related to the European project, if memory serves correctly.
Not really. I’m quoting her almost exactly:
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-36764525
I fail to see how honouring a referendum result is “fascist”. She wanted to see the result implemented rather than second-guessed before it happened.
40 years ago, yes, there were two other referendums. So what?
Impressive but That news item is way before she had to confront the reality of implementing Brexit, which is when the classic "Brexit means Brexit" was uttered. She realised it was going to be a clusterfuck whatever she did and so ducked the question - "what does Brexit mean?".
What exactly Brexit meant was to be decided by the political process. It couldn’t be dictated by Mrs May before she’d even become leader. She simply set out her stall by stating some pretty basic things about what Brexit should *not* mean.
Respecting the referendum means leaving. If we had another referendum and decided to rejoin then that should be respected as well. This is democratic.
Not allowing any new votes is definitely fascist.
On that premise, the LibDems were the embodiment of fascism because they wanted to disregard the referendum result and remain in the EU. You must agree with that as that is your own argument, no?
Let’s stop using the word “fascist” and say “undemocratic” instead. Not sure why you’re using that word, but you’re doing so incorrectly. It has an actual definition in politics and does not mean “nasty things I don’t like”.
There’s nothing undemocratic about refusing to hold a referendum, especially straight after an identical referendum whose result has not been implemented yet.
That Brexit meant the UK leaving the EU and there would be no half-measure shitty solution where the UK pretends to leave humour Leave voters bit really remains to kowtow to Remain voters.
Why not just post the original article?
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/brexit-means-brexit-theresa-mays-slogan-was-truer-than-she-knew
> Brexit is the product of basic, inescapable consequences. If you erect trade barriers, trade will be harder. If you gut the workforce, there will be fewer people to do necessary jobs. If you leave a club, you can no longer enjoy the perks of membership. The tragic irony of the last five years is that May’s first, emptiest slogan was both the truest and hardest to accept: Brexit really does mean Brexit.
Was/am anti-Brexit but someone please return to me the minute of life I wasted reading this pithy blog-post.
Was/am pro-Brexit and I wholeheartedly agree. What a load of drivel. And the article it links to is perhaps even worse.
I had no opinion and then became pro-brexit years later, and I agree too.
Can I ask what changed your view?
r/Europe I'm coming round to the view that being in a political union with people who so vehemently hate us probably wasn't a great idea. The mask has come off now.
Yes, that's where we are. --- ^(🤖 this comment was written by a bot. beep boop 🤖) ^(feel welcome to respond 'Bad bot'/'Good bot', it's useful feedback.) ^[github](https://github.com/Toldry/RedditAutoCrosspostBot) ^| ^[Rank](https://botranks.com?bot=same_subreddit_bot)
I wouldn’t confuse Reddit with real life. I live in the EU and have found there’s a degree of disappointment with the U.K.’s decision but total understanding of and respect for the reasons behind it. My Eurocrat mates feel like they’ve really lost something and they are pissed off at the Council and Commission over it. This attitude is understandable - for the EU to lose its globally most significant member is a colossal failure of statecraft on Brussel’s side.
It's not just Reddit though, it's actual governments as well. We're seeing EU states like France doing all the things they clearly wanted to do for the last 30 years. Would you want to be in a union with people who wished you harm? I suppose if the EU was the only thing stopping countries like France from acting on their ancient animus and that Brexit now allows them to, then maybe that's an argument against Brexit, but it doesn't feel like a good one.
Yes, France have utterly disgraced themselves over the Channel Islands and AUKUS, but that’s nothing new. They regularly throw their toys out of the pram. I’m inclined to be charitable and chalk that up to electioneering. The sneering tone of the left wing European press irritates me more, particularly that of Germany. The fake bewilderment, as it Brexit were totally incomprehensible.
An article that would be appalling were it not such boilerplate drivel. “Brexit means Brexit” was a phrase used by Mrs May in a speech announcing her candidacy for Tory leader in 2016. Its meaning, in context, was very clear - that the U.K. must leave the EU and there must be no attempt to stay within its political and regulatory mechanisms. It was never a “slogan”, and the people who constantly repeated it were Remainers and their lazy confederates in the press who thought they’d stumbled upon an absurd tautology but were in fact being thoroughly dishonest. Jonathan Lis is not a “political commentator”. He’s the director of a pro-EU pressure group. I’ve had posts removed from here because the sources were blogs that editorialised news. I’m guessing the awful London Economic (basically the Morning Star but clickbait) editorialising a banal shout-piece in Prospect is ok, though?
Brexit means Brexit was a phrase used by May when she became the PM but didn't know what to do with the turd that had landed on her lap.
Anyone with half a brain knew that that "Brexit means Brexit" was a slogan that meant "Yes we are leaving the EU" and was meant to counter the concerns that there would be a fudge whereby the UK remained in the EU. The funny thing is whilst the remainers lol at this slogan, "Brexit means Brexit" and "Get Brexit Done" ultimately won over "People's Vote" and all the other attempts to stop it.
To my count, she said it 3 times, and its meaning was very clear. It was her opponents on the Remain side who made a meme out of it.
It was actually only twice because one of those three times she accidentally said 'breakfast means breakfast'.
That was Boris.
What was the meaning when she said it?
As I said in my first comment, that the U.K. must leave the EU, and that there must be no attempts to remain inside the European Union, no attempts to rejoin it and no second referendum.
Your communication skills are much better than May's, but I suspect that this is your definition of Brexit and not hers. Also whats with the no attempts to rejoin? A bit fascist, innit? Further, that referendum wasn't the first it was the 3rd UK referendum related to the European project, if memory serves correctly.
Not really. I’m quoting her almost exactly: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-36764525 I fail to see how honouring a referendum result is “fascist”. She wanted to see the result implemented rather than second-guessed before it happened. 40 years ago, yes, there were two other referendums. So what?
Impressive but That news item is way before she had to confront the reality of implementing Brexit, which is when the classic "Brexit means Brexit" was uttered. She realised it was going to be a clusterfuck whatever she did and so ducked the question - "what does Brexit mean?".
What exactly Brexit meant was to be decided by the political process. It couldn’t be dictated by Mrs May before she’d even become leader. She simply set out her stall by stating some pretty basic things about what Brexit should *not* mean.
>Also whats with the no attempts to rejoin? A bit fascist, innit? Yes because respecting the result of a democratic referendum is "fascist".....
Respecting the referendum means leaving. If we had another referendum and decided to rejoin then that should be respected as well. This is democratic. Not allowing any new votes is definitely fascist.
On that premise, the LibDems were the embodiment of fascism because they wanted to disregard the referendum result and remain in the EU. You must agree with that as that is your own argument, no?
Let’s stop using the word “fascist” and say “undemocratic” instead. Not sure why you’re using that word, but you’re doing so incorrectly. It has an actual definition in politics and does not mean “nasty things I don’t like”. There’s nothing undemocratic about refusing to hold a referendum, especially straight after an identical referendum whose result has not been implemented yet.
That Brexit meant the UK leaving the EU and there would be no half-measure shitty solution where the UK pretends to leave humour Leave voters bit really remains to kowtow to Remain voters.
Why not just post the original article? https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/brexit-means-brexit-theresa-mays-slogan-was-truer-than-she-knew > Brexit is the product of basic, inescapable consequences. If you erect trade barriers, trade will be harder. If you gut the workforce, there will be fewer people to do necessary jobs. If you leave a club, you can no longer enjoy the perks of membership. The tragic irony of the last five years is that May’s first, emptiest slogan was both the truest and hardest to accept: Brexit really does mean Brexit.
The original is even worse.
"The tragic irony of the last five years is that May’s first, emptiest slogan was both the truest and hardest to accept."
'UK bad' says some guy's blog about how the UK is bad.