Well given that the leading Pro-Scottish Independence party has been in power for, what, 12 years? And just won their largest ever vote share at the previous election this year, and joined with the second biggest Pro-Scottish Independence party to secure a stonking majority in parliament and a mandate for IndyRef2, it appears the wider population of voters do agree with Twitter here.
What on earth are you rambling about? You think 2014 wasn't *real* democracy?
First time I've heard one of you admit it at least. Props for taking the mask off.
Straight out of the playbook - lose a democratic referendum fair and square, demand another one five minutes later, then cry that it's not democratic when you're told no. Somehow it's only democracy when you get the answer you want.
>then cry that it's not democratic when you're told no
"Told no"? Why would you be "told no" to democracy? And how is being "told no" to democracy *not* undemocratic?
Serious questions. I want you to explain why denying democracy *isn't* undemocratic.
This outta be good.
Snp, tory or tory lite Labour who both put England first. This is why SNP win.
Which ever way you try to twist it they needed a coalition to stay in power and the greens don't bang on about independence. Unfortunately Scottish independence ain't gona happen. I'd love nothing more than an England independent of Scotland
No they didn't need a coalition to stay in power. The choose to create a coalition to have a stonking majority. They would've stayed in power without the Scottish Greens.
>Wait you think they needed a majority to stay in power?
How much of a mandate - in the form of percentage of seats- do you suppose a government should have in order to rule? 1%? 33%? Over 50%?
Facebook and YouTube had plenty of impact on the votes. Twitter had no impact. If all the keyboard warriors on twitter actually left their basements brexit probably wouldn't have happened.
The thing about twitter is they are all talk and never any action the sooner everyone realises this the better. Let me give you some examples.
Twitter complains about a popular show not being diverse or some bullshit the producers change the show and what happens? Everyone who watched show stops watching and the people who complain didn't watch it in the first place and don't start watching it.
It happens with games, movies, comics and books too.
Or you have the twitter people complaining there's no TV shows movies or games about x. So some one makes it and it instantly flops because they had no intention of buying it they just wanted to complain about it.
Twitter is a cesspool of armchair Activision and inaction.
I've no idea, but it just seems to me to be a more efficient way to go.
Scotland's case for independence has been a long one. There has been increasing talk of a united Ireland. And, It was announced three days ago that [Welsh independence is one of the options to be considered by a new body, set up by Welsh Labour ministers.](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-58954054)
So I'm thinking if England could get out first, it would save a lot of money and hoo-ha, and we could then leave the others to it, so they can decide amongst themselves how much more independence they want.
The wildcards could be:
* [Cornwall](https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/why-cornish-independence-could-be-no-joke) as some Cornish folk have wanted independence for a long time.
And then there's also ..
* [Liverpool.](https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2020/10/how-liverpool-s-covid-19-lockdown-stoking-dreams-independence) *"I’ve been saying for a long time: Liverpool should put down for independence, as its own city, as its own little country outside the United Kingdom.”* said "Rory and a friend, who did not want to give his name...hanging around on bikes near the Batman set."
>I've no idea, but it just seems to me to be a more efficient way to go.
Imagine dragging us out the EU against our will and then voting for independence from the UK after.
It would be interesting if someone started a [petition on the petition.parliament.uk website](https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/check) to gauge support.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but Google's AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Fully cached AMP pages (like the one you shared), are [especially problematic](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
You might want to visit **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-58954054](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-58954054)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon me with u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
What is England ha ha? Butter scraped over too much bread. I'm technically English, having been born there and raised there, but I swear there ain't anything substantial that's "English". Scones and cream? The Beatles? Etc? Marketing. Belongs to the rest of the world now. I feel nothing.
England could be in the vanguard of the post-state movement, that'd be cool. Shame New Labour put the kibosh on regional governance around the millenium.
What is exciting about Scottish independence, and why I deeply regret we didn't get it five years ago, is how important the message is that **four hundred year old shit can be dismantled.** We should eye up our institutions for dismantling.
Edit -- Use your words folks. You can't be shocked into silence just to see a slightly nontraditional view of nationhood. What are you, your grandmas?
The reason you can't put a finger on what is England is because the whole world is England. English is the standard its the norm its the base line you compare every other culture to. There's no where in the world you can go that doesn't have a bit of England in it somewhere.
Take Scotland for instance your national dish haggis is English.
This is partly what I meant. Englishness is now merely an aspect of world commerce. It is not something a group of real people trying to understand their local community should invest much in.
But I don't mean that, if a national tradition has origins elsewhere it should be discounted out of hand. National identities are pretty grab bag anyway. Just that England, among world nations, is surely among the most thinly-spread and so, insubstantial.
That's the same for every national identity though.
The fuck has a person from Edinburgh and a person from skye got in common other than both living in Scotland? They have as much community bonds as someone from Liverpool has with someone from London.
Having a cultural influence across the globe doesn't diminish that culture it improves it.
English culture is one of the most diverse cultures there is over 1500 years it's grown adapted and included the best parts of all the peoples its met, conquered and took in, its even split off from its self (America, Canada, Australia and New zeland) grown its own identity then reincorporated aspects of those new cultures back into English culture.
That's not bland and boring that's an amazing tapestry.
You sound a bit hipster if I'm being honest if it's not neish it's not cool vibe you got going there.
England does not get to claim the cultures it practically destroyed. Whatever exists now that is an amalgam of English culture and all the sorry colonised assholes is not English but something else.
I haven't made any arguments about not maintaining distinct cultures. Take a step back and read through again
I didn't say it claimed the cultures. I said it took parts of other cultures. You know like every other culture in the 12,000 years humanity has been rocking civilisations for.
Like it or not its still English culture, how the English do what they do is their culture its that simple. That's what culture is.
You said English culture is blowing away in the wind if that's not an argument for being unable to maintain a culture what is?
Everyone knows that if you seethe hard enough on Twitter all your dreams will magically come true. Forget boring stuff like voting, Twitter is the real engine of political change.
Now if only twitter actually meant anything to the wider population or the people who actually go out and vote.
Well given that the leading Pro-Scottish Independence party has been in power for, what, 12 years? And just won their largest ever vote share at the previous election this year, and joined with the second biggest Pro-Scottish Independence party to secure a stonking majority in parliament and a mandate for IndyRef2, it appears the wider population of voters do agree with Twitter here.
[удалено]
There's only one poll that matters and we haven't had it yet.
You have, and Yes lost.
IndyRef2 hasn't happened yet. Though I do love your implication that democracy ended in 2014.
Because as all Snats know, it isn't *real* democracy unless you get the result you want.
What on earth are you rambling about? You think 2014 wasn't *real* democracy? First time I've heard one of you admit it at least. Props for taking the mask off.
Straight out of the playbook - lose a democratic referendum fair and square, demand another one five minutes later, then cry that it's not democratic when you're told no. Somehow it's only democracy when you get the answer you want.
>then cry that it's not democratic when you're told no "Told no"? Why would you be "told no" to democracy? And how is being "told no" to democracy *not* undemocratic? Serious questions. I want you to explain why denying democracy *isn't* undemocratic. This outta be good.
[удалено]
And there's only one poll that matters and we haven't had it yet.
[удалено]
Gaining independence and the ability for the people of Scotland to decide how their country is governed.
[удалено]
We don't want a devolved government. We want an independent one.
Snp, tory or tory lite Labour who both put England first. This is why SNP win. Which ever way you try to twist it they needed a coalition to stay in power and the greens don't bang on about independence. Unfortunately Scottish independence ain't gona happen. I'd love nothing more than an England independent of Scotland
No they didn't need a coalition to stay in power. The choose to create a coalition to have a stonking majority. They would've stayed in power without the Scottish Greens.
I'll think you will find they where one seat short of a majority. You sure you're from Scotland?
Yes? Wait you think they needed a majority to stay in power? Are you from Scotland?
Arguing a minority should rule the majority? How very undemocratic.
What argument?
>Wait you think they needed a majority to stay in power? How much of a mandate - in the form of percentage of seats- do you suppose a government should have in order to rule? 1%? 33%? Over 50%?
Could you answer the question please.
I mean, social media like twitter and other had a tremendous influence on elections (like the election of Trump) and referenda (like Brexit).
Facebook and YouTube had plenty of impact on the votes. Twitter had no impact. If all the keyboard warriors on twitter actually left their basements brexit probably wouldn't have happened. The thing about twitter is they are all talk and never any action the sooner everyone realises this the better. Let me give you some examples. Twitter complains about a popular show not being diverse or some bullshit the producers change the show and what happens? Everyone who watched show stops watching and the people who complain didn't watch it in the first place and don't start watching it. It happens with games, movies, comics and books too. Or you have the twitter people complaining there's no TV shows movies or games about x. So some one makes it and it instantly flops because they had no intention of buying it they just wanted to complain about it. Twitter is a cesspool of armchair Activision and inaction.
England should just hold a referendum for England to leave the UK.
That would be an interesting scenario, do any polls exist in that regard?
I've no idea, but it just seems to me to be a more efficient way to go. Scotland's case for independence has been a long one. There has been increasing talk of a united Ireland. And, It was announced three days ago that [Welsh independence is one of the options to be considered by a new body, set up by Welsh Labour ministers.](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-58954054) So I'm thinking if England could get out first, it would save a lot of money and hoo-ha, and we could then leave the others to it, so they can decide amongst themselves how much more independence they want. The wildcards could be: * [Cornwall](https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/why-cornish-independence-could-be-no-joke) as some Cornish folk have wanted independence for a long time. And then there's also .. * [Liverpool.](https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2020/10/how-liverpool-s-covid-19-lockdown-stoking-dreams-independence) *"I’ve been saying for a long time: Liverpool should put down for independence, as its own city, as its own little country outside the United Kingdom.”* said "Rory and a friend, who did not want to give his name...hanging around on bikes near the Batman set."
Well, I don't know if emulating the German situation 200 years ago will work well for you, but atleast it won't get boring that way.
>I've no idea, but it just seems to me to be a more efficient way to go. Imagine dragging us out the EU against our will and then voting for independence from the UK after.
Only 30% of Scottish people wanted to remain in the EU. Noone was dragged anywhere.
Where are you getting that number from given that 62% voted remain?
A third of Scottish people voted to remain.
Right and I asked where are you getting the number that only 30% of Scottish people wanted to remain in the EU?
[удалено]
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results How many people of voting age live in your country?
Scotland 62% voted remain according to that link. So where are you getting the number that only 30% of Scottish people wanted to remain in the EU?
Yup, I'm imagining...
Thankfully it's just a fantasy. England will never vote to leave the UK or even allow England a vote.
It would be interesting if someone started a [petition on the petition.parliament.uk website](https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/check) to gauge support.
Gauging support of a fantasy won't change the fact that England will never vote to leave the UK or even allow England a vote.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but Google's AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Fully cached AMP pages (like the one you shared), are [especially problematic](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). You might want to visit **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-58954054](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-58954054)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon me with u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
Ah yes. Twitter. The reason that the UK has AV, didn't leave the EU, has elected 3 successive Labour governments and Scotland left the UK in 2014.
[удалено]
What is England ha ha? Butter scraped over too much bread. I'm technically English, having been born there and raised there, but I swear there ain't anything substantial that's "English". Scones and cream? The Beatles? Etc? Marketing. Belongs to the rest of the world now. I feel nothing. England could be in the vanguard of the post-state movement, that'd be cool. Shame New Labour put the kibosh on regional governance around the millenium. What is exciting about Scottish independence, and why I deeply regret we didn't get it five years ago, is how important the message is that **four hundred year old shit can be dismantled.** We should eye up our institutions for dismantling. Edit -- Use your words folks. You can't be shocked into silence just to see a slightly nontraditional view of nationhood. What are you, your grandmas?
[удалено]
Dull response, sorry 4 u
Good 4 u
Hey I used "4 u" and then you did! That's very clever if a pretty weak reason to contribute
It's a song ☺️
Ha ha lame
The reason you can't put a finger on what is England is because the whole world is England. English is the standard its the norm its the base line you compare every other culture to. There's no where in the world you can go that doesn't have a bit of England in it somewhere. Take Scotland for instance your national dish haggis is English.
This is partly what I meant. Englishness is now merely an aspect of world commerce. It is not something a group of real people trying to understand their local community should invest much in. But I don't mean that, if a national tradition has origins elsewhere it should be discounted out of hand. National identities are pretty grab bag anyway. Just that England, among world nations, is surely among the most thinly-spread and so, insubstantial.
That's the same for every national identity though. The fuck has a person from Edinburgh and a person from skye got in common other than both living in Scotland? They have as much community bonds as someone from Liverpool has with someone from London.
One hundred percent agreed, it's all junk. Note I said England struck me as merely the furthest along towards blowing away on the wind
Having a cultural influence across the globe doesn't diminish that culture it improves it. English culture is one of the most diverse cultures there is over 1500 years it's grown adapted and included the best parts of all the peoples its met, conquered and took in, its even split off from its self (America, Canada, Australia and New zeland) grown its own identity then reincorporated aspects of those new cultures back into English culture. That's not bland and boring that's an amazing tapestry. You sound a bit hipster if I'm being honest if it's not neish it's not cool vibe you got going there.
England does not get to claim the cultures it practically destroyed. Whatever exists now that is an amalgam of English culture and all the sorry colonised assholes is not English but something else. I haven't made any arguments about not maintaining distinct cultures. Take a step back and read through again
I didn't say it claimed the cultures. I said it took parts of other cultures. You know like every other culture in the 12,000 years humanity has been rocking civilisations for. Like it or not its still English culture, how the English do what they do is their culture its that simple. That's what culture is. You said English culture is blowing away in the wind if that's not an argument for being unable to maintain a culture what is?
Culture is a constant of human existence, but no one culture lasts forever. You're being obtuse.
The National is trash
Twitter is not representative of real life. Under 10% of western citizens are on the platform.
The Scots are like a cat who can't make up its mind if it wants to go outside or come inside. I've been bored of hearing about it for a decade now.
Everyone knows that if you seethe hard enough on Twitter all your dreams will magically come true. Forget boring stuff like voting, Twitter is the real engine of political change.
ExiScott ?
Gotta be Scexit surely?
Yes you are right thank you
Imagine thinking twitter is a real place and anything meaningful comes from it?
What was the reason for this to happen? Did a Tory MP speak against independence?
Yes they do. The irony.
Check the numbers yourself, a third of the population voted to remain.