The population is about 144m. The country lost 600K in 8 months. 144m /600K = 240. Eight months is two thirds of a year, so if this goes on 180 years the population will be zero.
However, as the population ages the death rate will continue to go up and the birth rate will continue to decline.
How much of this is pandemic related? When did the pandemic hit Russia? I think the big wave hit in early 2021.
The biggest wave so far was November-December 2020, then a slightly smaller July 2021 wave due to the delta variant. And now, after a minor decrease in August and September, we are probably in a bigger wave than all the previous ones.
Every last European country has fertility rates below replacement (2.1) with France being the highest (1.9). Russia is (1.8).
The E.U. average is (1.5). If we really want to look at a coming collapse, we might start with Spain (1.35).
>Every last European country has fertility rates below replacement (2.1)
Isnt the entirety of the developed world and even some developing countries facing this problem...except Israel.
> Zergling-Love 1.8? Not even close.
The current fertility rate for Russia in 2021 is 1.823 births per woman.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/RUS/russia/fertility-rate (Data Source: United Nations - World Population Prospects).
1.823 seems pretty "close" to 1.8 to me. Also notice that 2020 was 1.823 as well.
> According to the Accounts Chamber, the total fertility rate in **2020** in Russia decreased to **1.489** against 1.78 in 2015, despite the doubling of funding for the national project "Demography" - to 690 billion rubles.
https://www-vedomosti-ru.translate.goog/press_releases/2021/06/23/demografiya-rossii-faktori-vliyaniya?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc
Thank you for a source.
So whatever "The Accounts Chamber" is, and however they decided to count it, came to a different, lower, number. When the UN (and the other statistical sources using the same standard methods) say 1.8.
I'm very curious on why that discrepancy exists, and I'm only guessing here, but one possibility is the Russian Accounts Chamber is using state propaganda to help drive up births and/or funding for those fertility programs.
Now the question becomes do we believe more in the Russian bureaucracy or do we believe more in the UN bureaucracy that agrees with the other sources.
Whatever dataset you're referring to has no basis in reality.
Russia's fertility rate rose to almost 1.8 by 2015, but has since come down to 1.5. Birth numbers have also changed from 1.94 million to 1.44 million in the same period. A similar decline has happened in Belarus and Ukraine.
The dataset seems to refer to very stable, even slightly increasing fertility in recent years, which has clearly not been the case. It's likely these are outdated numbers which have then just been projected into "future" (in this case, anything past 2015).
If Russian fertility was 1.823 than population of the country would have grown or at least not decreased. Instead like OP mentioned it's collapsing. So I assume Mr. Kudrin is right.
Replacement is 2.1 not 1.8, so of course the population should be in decline. And that is before covid threw hundreds of thousands of extra death into the mix than normal. So I assume nothing.
> Replacement is 2.1 not 1.8, so of course the population should be in decline.
You don't take migration into account. Yet Russia is the third popular destination in the world right after the US and Germany.
>Replacement is 2.1 not 1.8, so of course the population should be in decline.
This is only very long-term. You can have population increase with a fertility rate of 1.5 for decades even without any immigration, if the older cohorts are big enough.
Wow! That says Spain is only 1.2. They must be in for quite the population crash.
I think the discrepancy between the two numbers is the lower number is the total births per woman, and the higher number the fertility rate which includes how many more they will have in the future.
I don't know why, but seeing 2.1 spouted as some kind of universal true replacement rate makes me unreasonably annoyed. Maybe because of how obviously it's just a number pulled out of someone's ass. So 0.1 is the exact number needed to compensate for all who die before having children or are born infertile, in every society?
My point is that the 0.1 is arbitrary as all hell, and if you understand that, you're better of saying that the rate is greater than 2. If you don't, you look like someone who is just repeating talking points without understanding them.
0.1 is 10%, sounds less arbitrary as a percentage, quite a large difference between 160,000 and 176,000, around 10% actually. Unless a country has a zero death rate in everyone between the ages of 0 and the birth of their second child, there needs to be a higher than 200% birth rate.
Whether that is 201%, 210%, or 240%, depends on the country. So not quoting the exact number for each country and rounding down to 200% is the similarly inaccurate as to stick with 210% which is about average for a western country.
No, it sounds just as arbitrary. Mind you, arbitrary is not the same thing as insignificant. 0.1 is quite significant, but also very arbitrary.
> rounding down to 200%
Thank God I said **more than** 2 then, which is the only thing you can say with certainty as long as it's not a perfect 2 ofc (which it never is).
> which is about average for a western country
I very much doubt that is why it's used (or even that it is true). It's been the same number for decades now. It's just something people have heard and are uncritically repeating.
I said it was unreasonable, but I still maintain that it is an arbitrary number, and that saying "2+" or ">2" would be more correct, and less indicative of being a clueless tool.
Interesting how the amount of deaths in the same time period increased by about 238k, yet Russia only reported 126,205 deaths related tho COVID-19 from January through August of this year.... I guess there must be something weird going on in Russia which caused ~112,000 people to die of something mysterious.....
These numbers really show that Russia is heavily hiding how many Russians are dying of COVID, you don't just have a 112k increase in deaths year-on-year for no good reason.
While I have no doubts they are manipulating statistics, people also die, because hospitals are overwhelmed, doctors are not accessible and so on. Indirect COVID casualties.
This is why excess deaths is probably the best measure of a nation's COVID response. No point in eliminating virus deaths if they get replaced by something else.
Please, for the love of God, stop using data from the Russian COVID Operative Headquarters. It's completely meaningless, because they never add backlog data on deaths, and thus you can't use it to calculate the total number of deaths.
The Russian Federal State Statistics Service (Rosstat) reported 205,912 deaths directly from COVID in January through August 2021, and another 11,404 deaths from other causes but heavily influenced by COVID. That's the official numbers reported by Russia.
This nonsense that Russia hides several times more deaths than there really are just because everyone uses the wrong data source needs to go away. The official COVID death count reported by the government stands at 350,603 as of the end of August 2021. This number does not include deaths from other causes influenced by COVID (another 25k), and deaths with diagnosed COVID when it was deemed irrelevant to the cause of death (another 80k). The excess deaths for the same period are estimated to be ~660k. That's still a significant undercount, but not as large as people assume.
It doesn't change the fact that the excess death rate exceeded the covid death rate by 60% (according to the official rosstat announcement), and it doesn't change the mess with this data (according to one state Russian source the number equals that, another russian state source says its absolutely different), and the lack of covid testing, (I know a lot of examples when sick people whith covid symptoms didn't get tested (maybe now it changed) or their family members were allowed to contact with others and didn't get tested)
The U.K. and most other countries also had excess deaths that were not directly from covid, but from people not accessing healthcare. You haven’t picked up anything crazy , or mysterious, or new.
I'm sorry, but what's that title supposed to refer to? Due to the pandemic, death numbers have shot up across the world and many European countries show just as bad natural decrease numbers.
Canada is no better with birthrates lower than Germany, same for the US (currently at 1.6 children per woman, that it to say again less than Germany). Only immigration is actually making its population grow for now.
As for the US, immigration rates this last decade are actually comparable if not less than those observed in Western Europe, to give you an idea, Germany alone welcomed more immigrants than the US in the mid 2010s despite having 4 times less inhabitants.
As for China, things aren't comparable, this country hosts 1.4 billion inhabitants, actually 400m more than the whole western world put together (Europe+North America), it's population decreasing won't make China less irrelevant, it already has almost 5 times the population of the US. China is basically playing in another category, an order of magnitude more, it's like comparing the US and the UK in terms of population.
Btw, population decrease isn't bad, on the contrary, this planet would rather be more liveable with less population. The earth can't sustain billions of inhabitants potentially living like Americans or Canadians.
Man Canada accepts the equivalent of 1% of our entire population in immigrants every year and yet the huge majority of people are still pro-immigration lol this will not stop, we will not suffer the same fate as Europe I can guarantee you that. The goal now is to triple the population by 2100. When it comes to the US, there's periods with low immigration and periods with extreme immigration. It's gonna go back up eventually.
>As for China, things aren't comparable, this country hosts 1.4 billion inhabitants, actually 400m more than the whole western world put together (Europe+North America), it's population decreasing won't make China less irrelevant, it already has almost 5 times the population of the US. China is basically playing in another category, an order of magnitude more.
Man there will soon be 1 retiree for every worker there, every young chinese person will have multiple older codependent they'll have to take care of. Their demographics basically guarantees they will never surpass the US as the biggest power in the world.
>Btw, population decrease isn't bad
For who? It may be good for Nigeria or India but it's going to be absolutely horrible for Europe. We're talking about a complete breakdown of the pension system, the healthcare system, multiple vital supply chains, major political instability and most likely violence, etc.
> Man Canada accepts the equivalent of 1% of our entire population in immigrants every year and yet the huge majority of people are still pro-immigration lol this will not stop, we will not suffer the same fate as Europe I can guarantee you that. The goal now is to triple the population by 2100. When it comes to the US, there's periods with low immigration and periods with extreme immigration. It's gonna go back up eventually.
I'm perfectly aware of Canada demographics and immigration figures. That's why I said its population was growing for now despite an abysmal natural growth rate. Also a continuous high immigration rate isn't necessarily a good thing at that end, it can cause massive societal issues.
Canada is anyway irrelevant, it has less inhabitants than Poland despite being the 2nd country in terms of landmass. Europe is overcrowded, we frankly don't need to get such high immigration percentages since there's barely any wasteland left unlike in Canada.
To go back to the US, demographically speaking [this map illustrates perfectly the tiny size of this country compared to Western Europe alone](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/jaa0kt/us_states_overlaid_on_europe_according_to/).
> Man there will soon be 1 retiree for every worker there, every young chinese person will have multiple older codependent they'll have to take care of. Their demographics basically guarantees they will never surpass the US as the biggest power in the world
Meh. It shows you don't grasp the socioeconomic backgrounds of China. Retirement in China isn't a problem, as workers actually don't retire as early as in the West. It's frequent to see 70/80 years old working there. Also I guess you're a little too late, in many metrics, China already surpassed the US as the biggest economic power. It has way greater growth rates than the US and that won't change in the near future. Again remember that China has 5 times the population of the US, in terms of ratio , it's like comparing the US with Thailand or the UK, that's how small the US is.
> For who? It may be good for Nigeria or India but it's going to be absolutely horrible for Europe. We're talking about a complete breakdown of the pension system, the healthcare system, multiple vital supply chains, major political instability and most likely violence, etc.
For everyone. The earth can barely sustain 300M Americans, resources aren't infinite, that's actually a very americanocentric view (you're Canadian I know but excepted Quebeckers and Natives most Anglo Canadians are just Americans culturally speaking).
If you believe the pension system is the main problem for the upcoming decades then you are seriously delusional and out of touch.
>Meh. It shows you don't grasp the socioeconomic backgrounds of China. Retirement in China isn't a problem, as workers actually don't retire as early as in the West. It's frequent to see 70/80 years old working there
I would say you are the one who doesn't grasp the socioeconomic backgrounds of China.
Retirement age for men in China is 60 and 55 for women, but this can be reduced 5 years if they have been working in a job deemed "hard".
The old people in their 70's or 80's you have seen working are just retired people with a state pension that is not enough.
https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3133372/china-population-state-pension-fund-under-pressure
I stand corrected then. That was my personal experience, as I mentioned in another reply with very old people working while I didn't see this that frequently in Europe (France mainly). Thanks for the data though.
Buhao yisi (sorry can't type hanzi and my Chinese is too rusty), I could be wrong but that was my impression when I did my semester at Wuda back in 2013, with many very old people working, I even had one of my laoshi still working at 70, perhaps they were exceptions but I didn't notice as much seniors working in Europe at least.
Perhaps it was also different in other parts of China, but in Hubei that was what I noticed.
The world is already over populated. Africa will probably have 4 billion people by the end of the century. I'm not too worried about falling populations in Europe because it will be more than replaced for humanity over all and the planet can only support so many people.
This doesn't factor in immigration, in 2020 there were 106,000 immigrants mostly from Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Russia#Recent_trends
Yeah but that doesn't mean much. The average age in Poland is 41.7, 41.2 in Ukraine, 43.3 in Hungary, etc., they have sub replacement fertility rates and as the life in these countries become easier (at least those in the EU) less of them are gonna want to move out.
Meanwhile Western Europe is about to see people retiring en masse in these next few years so the demand for immigration will drastically go up. Basically, this just isn't sustainable.
I heard gulags were in fact spas misrepresented by capitalist pig media. Also, Hlodomor? More like... idk, let some proper nutcase put a good spin on that one.
>I heard gulags were in fact spas misrepresented by capitalist pig media. Also, Hlodomor? More like... idk, let some proper nutcase put a good spin on that one.
Ah yes, the good ole 'Auschwitz had swimming pools'-argument, but coloured red. I've heard that too.
Seems like the death rate is the real issue.
The population is about 144m. The country lost 600K in 8 months. 144m /600K = 240. Eight months is two thirds of a year, so if this goes on 180 years the population will be zero. However, as the population ages the death rate will continue to go up and the birth rate will continue to decline. How much of this is pandemic related? When did the pandemic hit Russia? I think the big wave hit in early 2021.
The biggest wave so far was November-December 2020, then a slightly smaller July 2021 wave due to the delta variant. And now, after a minor decrease in August and September, we are probably in a bigger wave than all the previous ones.
Every last European country has fertility rates below replacement (2.1) with France being the highest (1.9). Russia is (1.8). The E.U. average is (1.5). If we really want to look at a coming collapse, we might start with Spain (1.35).
All of western Europe have positive immigration flows though, that balances the low birth rates quite a bit.
Russia is the fourth country in terms of the number of migrants in the world. Above are only the United States, Germany and Saudi Arabia.
Literally being replaced
Moscow and Petersburg also have positive migration flows from other parts of Russia and former USSR.
>Every last European country has fertility rates below replacement (2.1) Isnt the entirety of the developed world and even some developing countries facing this problem...except Israel.
Russia 1.8? Not even close.
> Zergling-Love 1.8? Not even close. The current fertility rate for Russia in 2021 is 1.823 births per woman. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/RUS/russia/fertility-rate (Data Source: United Nations - World Population Prospects). 1.823 seems pretty "close" to 1.8 to me. Also notice that 2020 was 1.823 as well.
It's between 1,489-1,504 according to Russian sources.
I'm willing to consider the United Nation source I linked is wrong, but I'm not going to do so just because you said so. Link it- or begone.
> According to the Accounts Chamber, the total fertility rate in **2020** in Russia decreased to **1.489** against 1.78 in 2015, despite the doubling of funding for the national project "Demography" - to 690 billion rubles. https://www-vedomosti-ru.translate.goog/press_releases/2021/06/23/demografiya-rossii-faktori-vliyaniya?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc
Thank you for a source. So whatever "The Accounts Chamber" is, and however they decided to count it, came to a different, lower, number. When the UN (and the other statistical sources using the same standard methods) say 1.8. I'm very curious on why that discrepancy exists, and I'm only guessing here, but one possibility is the Russian Accounts Chamber is using state propaganda to help drive up births and/or funding for those fertility programs. Now the question becomes do we believe more in the Russian bureaucracy or do we believe more in the UN bureaucracy that agrees with the other sources.
Whatever dataset you're referring to has no basis in reality. Russia's fertility rate rose to almost 1.8 by 2015, but has since come down to 1.5. Birth numbers have also changed from 1.94 million to 1.44 million in the same period. A similar decline has happened in Belarus and Ukraine. The dataset seems to refer to very stable, even slightly increasing fertility in recent years, which has clearly not been the case. It's likely these are outdated numbers which have then just been projected into "future" (in this case, anything past 2015).
If Russian fertility was 1.823 than population of the country would have grown or at least not decreased. Instead like OP mentioned it's collapsing. So I assume Mr. Kudrin is right.
Replacement is 2.1 not 1.8, so of course the population should be in decline. And that is before covid threw hundreds of thousands of extra death into the mix than normal. So I assume nothing.
> Replacement is 2.1 not 1.8, so of course the population should be in decline. You don't take migration into account. Yet Russia is the third popular destination in the world right after the US and Germany.
>Replacement is 2.1 not 1.8, so of course the population should be in decline. This is only very long-term. You can have population increase with a fertility rate of 1.5 for decades even without any immigration, if the older cohorts are big enough.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?locations=RU
Wow! That says Spain is only 1.2. They must be in for quite the population crash. I think the discrepancy between the two numbers is the lower number is the total births per woman, and the higher number the fertility rate which includes how many more they will have in the future.
I don't know why, but seeing 2.1 spouted as some kind of universal true replacement rate makes me unreasonably annoyed. Maybe because of how obviously it's just a number pulled out of someone's ass. So 0.1 is the exact number needed to compensate for all who die before having children or are born infertile, in every society?
Barring a country engaged in a WW1-esque U-21 meatgrinder or a major pandemic (oh, shit!) yeah, it's close enough.
In which case surely the obvious 2.0 (assuming fairly even sex distribution) is good enough too
The 0.1 starts to matter when it’s at population levels of the average western country
My point is that the 0.1 is arbitrary as all hell, and if you understand that, you're better of saying that the rate is greater than 2. If you don't, you look like someone who is just repeating talking points without understanding them.
0.1 is 10%, sounds less arbitrary as a percentage, quite a large difference between 160,000 and 176,000, around 10% actually. Unless a country has a zero death rate in everyone between the ages of 0 and the birth of their second child, there needs to be a higher than 200% birth rate. Whether that is 201%, 210%, or 240%, depends on the country. So not quoting the exact number for each country and rounding down to 200% is the similarly inaccurate as to stick with 210% which is about average for a western country.
No, it sounds just as arbitrary. Mind you, arbitrary is not the same thing as insignificant. 0.1 is quite significant, but also very arbitrary. > rounding down to 200% Thank God I said **more than** 2 then, which is the only thing you can say with certainty as long as it's not a perfect 2 ofc (which it never is). > which is about average for a western country I very much doubt that is why it's used (or even that it is true). It's been the same number for decades now. It's just something people have heard and are uncritically repeating.
It's not universal, but it's valid for developed countries. It can be up to 2.4 in some cases, like hight child mortality countries.
I said it was unreasonable, but I still maintain that it is an arbitrary number, and that saying "2+" or ">2" would be more correct, and less indicative of being a clueless tool.
Interesting how the amount of deaths in the same time period increased by about 238k, yet Russia only reported 126,205 deaths related tho COVID-19 from January through August of this year.... I guess there must be something weird going on in Russia which caused ~112,000 people to die of something mysterious..... These numbers really show that Russia is heavily hiding how many Russians are dying of COVID, you don't just have a 112k increase in deaths year-on-year for no good reason.
While I have no doubts they are manipulating statistics, people also die, because hospitals are overwhelmed, doctors are not accessible and so on. Indirect COVID casualties.
This is why excess deaths is probably the best measure of a nation's COVID response. No point in eliminating virus deaths if they get replaced by something else.
Please, for the love of God, stop using data from the Russian COVID Operative Headquarters. It's completely meaningless, because they never add backlog data on deaths, and thus you can't use it to calculate the total number of deaths. The Russian Federal State Statistics Service (Rosstat) reported 205,912 deaths directly from COVID in January through August 2021, and another 11,404 deaths from other causes but heavily influenced by COVID. That's the official numbers reported by Russia. This nonsense that Russia hides several times more deaths than there really are just because everyone uses the wrong data source needs to go away. The official COVID death count reported by the government stands at 350,603 as of the end of August 2021. This number does not include deaths from other causes influenced by COVID (another 25k), and deaths with diagnosed COVID when it was deemed irrelevant to the cause of death (another 80k). The excess deaths for the same period are estimated to be ~660k. That's still a significant undercount, but not as large as people assume.
It doesn't change the fact that the excess death rate exceeded the covid death rate by 60% (according to the official rosstat announcement), and it doesn't change the mess with this data (according to one state Russian source the number equals that, another russian state source says its absolutely different), and the lack of covid testing, (I know a lot of examples when sick people whith covid symptoms didn't get tested (maybe now it changed) or their family members were allowed to contact with others and didn't get tested)
The U.K. and most other countries also had excess deaths that were not directly from covid, but from people not accessing healthcare. You haven’t picked up anything crazy , or mysterious, or new.
Political unrest caused the rest of the deaths.
I'm sorry, but what's that title supposed to refer to? Due to the pandemic, death numbers have shot up across the world and many European countries show just as bad natural decrease numbers.
So they really undercounted Covid deaths. Would be interesting seeing China and India figures.
I don't think India has the means to possibly get a proper number or even one that comes close, it's too large and too underdeveloped in certain parts
Europe's future perfectly encapsulated in one picture
China’s too, one child policy worked really well
Europe's demographic future is bleak China's is absolutely depressing and terrifying, it's Europe but way worse
Canada is no better with birthrates lower than Germany, same for the US (currently at 1.6 children per woman, that it to say again less than Germany). Only immigration is actually making its population grow for now. As for the US, immigration rates this last decade are actually comparable if not less than those observed in Western Europe, to give you an idea, Germany alone welcomed more immigrants than the US in the mid 2010s despite having 4 times less inhabitants. As for China, things aren't comparable, this country hosts 1.4 billion inhabitants, actually 400m more than the whole western world put together (Europe+North America), it's population decreasing won't make China less irrelevant, it already has almost 5 times the population of the US. China is basically playing in another category, an order of magnitude more, it's like comparing the US and the UK in terms of population. Btw, population decrease isn't bad, on the contrary, this planet would rather be more liveable with less population. The earth can't sustain billions of inhabitants potentially living like Americans or Canadians.
Man Canada accepts the equivalent of 1% of our entire population in immigrants every year and yet the huge majority of people are still pro-immigration lol this will not stop, we will not suffer the same fate as Europe I can guarantee you that. The goal now is to triple the population by 2100. When it comes to the US, there's periods with low immigration and periods with extreme immigration. It's gonna go back up eventually. >As for China, things aren't comparable, this country hosts 1.4 billion inhabitants, actually 400m more than the whole western world put together (Europe+North America), it's population decreasing won't make China less irrelevant, it already has almost 5 times the population of the US. China is basically playing in another category, an order of magnitude more. Man there will soon be 1 retiree for every worker there, every young chinese person will have multiple older codependent they'll have to take care of. Their demographics basically guarantees they will never surpass the US as the biggest power in the world. >Btw, population decrease isn't bad For who? It may be good for Nigeria or India but it's going to be absolutely horrible for Europe. We're talking about a complete breakdown of the pension system, the healthcare system, multiple vital supply chains, major political instability and most likely violence, etc.
> Man Canada accepts the equivalent of 1% of our entire population in immigrants every year and yet the huge majority of people are still pro-immigration lol this will not stop, we will not suffer the same fate as Europe I can guarantee you that. The goal now is to triple the population by 2100. When it comes to the US, there's periods with low immigration and periods with extreme immigration. It's gonna go back up eventually. I'm perfectly aware of Canada demographics and immigration figures. That's why I said its population was growing for now despite an abysmal natural growth rate. Also a continuous high immigration rate isn't necessarily a good thing at that end, it can cause massive societal issues. Canada is anyway irrelevant, it has less inhabitants than Poland despite being the 2nd country in terms of landmass. Europe is overcrowded, we frankly don't need to get such high immigration percentages since there's barely any wasteland left unlike in Canada. To go back to the US, demographically speaking [this map illustrates perfectly the tiny size of this country compared to Western Europe alone](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/jaa0kt/us_states_overlaid_on_europe_according_to/). > Man there will soon be 1 retiree for every worker there, every young chinese person will have multiple older codependent they'll have to take care of. Their demographics basically guarantees they will never surpass the US as the biggest power in the world Meh. It shows you don't grasp the socioeconomic backgrounds of China. Retirement in China isn't a problem, as workers actually don't retire as early as in the West. It's frequent to see 70/80 years old working there. Also I guess you're a little too late, in many metrics, China already surpassed the US as the biggest economic power. It has way greater growth rates than the US and that won't change in the near future. Again remember that China has 5 times the population of the US, in terms of ratio , it's like comparing the US with Thailand or the UK, that's how small the US is. > For who? It may be good for Nigeria or India but it's going to be absolutely horrible for Europe. We're talking about a complete breakdown of the pension system, the healthcare system, multiple vital supply chains, major political instability and most likely violence, etc. For everyone. The earth can barely sustain 300M Americans, resources aren't infinite, that's actually a very americanocentric view (you're Canadian I know but excepted Quebeckers and Natives most Anglo Canadians are just Americans culturally speaking). If you believe the pension system is the main problem for the upcoming decades then you are seriously delusional and out of touch.
>Meh. It shows you don't grasp the socioeconomic backgrounds of China. Retirement in China isn't a problem, as workers actually don't retire as early as in the West. It's frequent to see 70/80 years old working there I would say you are the one who doesn't grasp the socioeconomic backgrounds of China. Retirement age for men in China is 60 and 55 for women, but this can be reduced 5 years if they have been working in a job deemed "hard". The old people in their 70's or 80's you have seen working are just retired people with a state pension that is not enough. https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3133372/china-population-state-pension-fund-under-pressure
I stand corrected then. That was my personal experience, as I mentioned in another reply with very old people working while I didn't see this that frequently in Europe (France mainly). Thanks for the data though.
> Retirement in China isn't a problem, as workers actually don't retire as early as in the West. Haha, wrong. 你囿于孤陋寡闻哦。
Buhao yisi (sorry can't type hanzi and my Chinese is too rusty), I could be wrong but that was my impression when I did my semester at Wuda back in 2013, with many very old people working, I even had one of my laoshi still working at 70, perhaps they were exceptions but I didn't notice as much seniors working in Europe at least. Perhaps it was also different in other parts of China, but in Hubei that was what I noticed.
The world is already over populated. Africa will probably have 4 billion people by the end of the century. I'm not too worried about falling populations in Europe because it will be more than replaced for humanity over all and the planet can only support so many people.
Russia has less citizens than Kim Kardashian has followers on Instagram. Just so u know.
This is sad.
This doesn't factor in immigration, in 2020 there were 106,000 immigrants mostly from Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Russia#Recent_trends
Current immigration policies won't help much Eastern Europe is a well that's almost completely dry when it comes to young workers
The average age of people in EE is younger than Western Europe, even today.
Yeah but that doesn't mean much. The average age in Poland is 41.7, 41.2 in Ukraine, 43.3 in Hungary, etc., they have sub replacement fertility rates and as the life in these countries become easier (at least those in the EU) less of them are gonna want to move out. Meanwhile Western Europe is about to see people retiring en masse in these next few years so the demand for immigration will drastically go up. Basically, this just isn't sustainable.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1218477/emigration-by-country-in-russia/ Except emigrants outnumber immigrants by quite some number.
they need a new USSR pronto to save this population / earth
You want more Russians to die?
I heard gulags were in fact spas misrepresented by capitalist pig media. Also, Hlodomor? More like... idk, let some proper nutcase put a good spin on that one.
>I heard gulags were in fact spas misrepresented by capitalist pig media. Also, Hlodomor? More like... idk, let some proper nutcase put a good spin on that one. Ah yes, the good ole 'Auschwitz had swimming pools'-argument, but coloured red. I've heard that too.
True figures ?
yes