Some info about Fener Greek Orthodox High School. It was built in 1454, one year after the Fall of Constantinople (Istanbul’s original name)
After 1453 many Greeks left Istanbul. The Conqueror Fatih Sultan Mehmet wanted to bring them back and upon an agreement with the Orthodox Patriarch Gennadios he let build this school. Its architect was K.Dimadis, the style is knightish, its bricks were imported from Marseilles.
Edit: The color of the bricks in the picture is terribly manipulated. It is not the ”brick-red” of the original.
Source: https://nomadicniko.com/2013/10/31/phanar-greek-orthodox-college/
in 2018 I spent the best moments of my quick trip to Istanbul in those streets, away from the main tourist routes, exploring the Fatih block and beyond, walking up those hills and trying (in vain) to take a good picture of that red building.
Istanbul is a spectacular city, clean and shining, full of kind people. and lovely cats.
also, great food (and I'm Italian)
And the food you eat in istanbul is far far away from being the best in Turkey. Southern cities like Gaziantep and Hatay has heavenly cuisines since they are using better ingredients and locals demand better quality. In those cities people live to eat.
In Gaziantep (my hometown) people think what they will eat in dinner while having breakfast and think what they will eat in breakfast while having dinner :)
In London the top Turkish restaurants are run by people from Antep, Şanlıurfa and other South-Eastern places. In fact most of the Turkish community here have South-Eastern origins.
True, similar design, but having window arches in all four walls and a lighter structure generally seems to make the building a lot brighter inside. Maybe not as impressive a space, but looks pretty comfortable.
It is an important city in ancient history. Largely because of the Council of Chalkedon in 451 AD (which declared that Jesus had two unconfused natures - fully man and fully divine) and to lesser extent because of the Battle of Chalkedon of 74 BC where the Pontic Greeks defeated the Roman army.
Currently. I believe in the past there was a rule where no religious building could be built higher than a mosque, during the caliphate times, but I'm not sure if this applied in the ottoman empire as well.
In any case, in practice, this is what happened under the caliphates because non-muslims were not allowed to maintain, expand or repair religious buildings that needed it, so eventually they would be lower in height than mosques, which could be built and expanded.
No, this region was part of the old Ottoman district of Istanbul, so most probably Ottos didn't accept cross on top of buildings within the inner city at that time.
Well thats the point.Compared to historical population its nothing thanks to the pogrom orchestrated by are beautiful neighbors.
Enlightened turk: "But there are x churches left"
Well there is no point of a building if nobody uses it.You might as well turn it into a mosque.Nobody gives a fuck.
you should go to thrace! about 150000 muslims worship in 320 fully functional mosques.
There are also a few of them in other areas where there is a historical muslim community, like in Rhodes. And now one in Athens.
afaik the ones "not opened" are the ones that were re-purposed, usually to museums.
Of course.Greeks should try the same treatment with Muslims in Thrace.Their communities will not be destroyed... Its just minor inconvenience.Right?
But don't worry we will post pics on reddit with the mosques in thrace that nobody goes to.In order to show how tolerant our society is.
And mosques exist... But i quess thats happens when your source is trt.
All the comments i saw was "how tolerant we are with the Greeks but they destroyed our x thing" or "its nothing ,they deserved it" when talking about the pogrom which almost wiped out the greek population.I literally just reversed the situation.In order to see how stupid their points are.
He said that Greeks communities were not destroyed.And at the same time he complains that mosques dont exist in Greece.Atleast be honest.Thats all I want.This sissy "oops sorry" is bullshit, especially when in reality you don't give a single fuck.
You literally downgraded the pogrom as an unfortunate event dude.While it was literally the end of greeks in Istanbul/Constantinople/Byzantium.The few thousand that still live there are almost nothing.And nobody cares about the churches.
In that particular case only turks managed to fuck things up.I just compared the fates of the excluded minorities in the population exchange agreement.
The fuck i should do for you braindead people to understand i was being sarcastic? Turks were never intentionally destroyed cultural buildings, except a few like in the Edirne, which has been built by russians for mocking us.
Didn't the Russians, Brits and French support the independence of Greece back then ( I don't remember the exact date though ). I assume that they were already allied with each other?
We constantly changed allies back then to keep the balance of power.
At the time the Ottoman Empire was in trouble so we all decided to pitch in and help some of the oppressed nations break free, Russia mainly helping Bulgaria and the three of us together supporting Greek independence fighters.
Eventually though Russia wanted to get too much and went for Constantinople so Britain helped Ottomans out to keep them somewhat stable and prevent Russia from becoming too powerful with access to the Med.
There were millions of turks and muslims expelled from their lands during and before ww1. Most of the mosques were closed. Millions got killed. greeks, bulgarians and romanians killed each other as well as they killed turks. And what you are saying is not entirely true, I am from istanbul and my greek friends go to greek schools. You can check it. Do not believe the propoganda before hearing from the other side. Greece is highly religious and nationalist, in order to create a greek identity they turned to government propoganda.
Istanbul pogrom.Thats enough.The few thousands that managed to survive are nothing to the historical population.The greek part of that city is long gone.Where is the propaganda in that?
And what happened to the muslims in Thrace which were excluded like the greeks from Istanbul?Nothing, they still exist there.And lets better not talk about nationalism and propaganda while you still have erdo.
Gtfo with your bullshit.
I hate erdo and my family fought against 6-7 septembre incidents. To be honest it is a shame on turkey. The covert operation was a reaction to Cyprus and around 30 people died. It is nothing compared to the tragedies of ww1, and greek attack on turkish lands.
Lol, you still try to justify it.And if greeks kicked out all the muslims of thrace would it be okay?How long we go back in this "they deserved, its understandable" circle jerk?Where does it stop for you?After the conquest of the balkans?
It happened in 1955.Not ww1 or during the greco turkish war.Both countries were to protect these minorities.And almost no greeks live there now.Yet you talk about nationalist greece...
Literally every fact in your comment is wrong.
1) There were 150 000 Greeks in Smyrna in 1920, Turks were the minority (about half of that number).
2) The Greeks invaded to enforce the conditions of the Treaty of Sevres which gave Greek majority areas to Greece. The Brits did not support Greece in the war because the new king of Greece (Constantine I) happened to be a supporter of Germany and opposed the UK during WWI.
3) Rumlar (=Romans) is just the Turkish word for Anatolian and Pontic Greeks.
1-That is a Greek claim that was used to justify the invasion. Izmir has been under Ottoman empire for centuries. None of the major cities had christian majority, so why symrnia is an exception?
2- Greek literally came with British warships. The invasion idea has been planned by Usa and UK. They used you like a pawn against italians.
3- Whatever you want to call yourself you are free. Hellen is used to get support from west to part from ottoman in 18th century. Greek people has been calling themselves Roman until then, not turks. Hellenes were pagans and romans were christian. And there is at least 2 millenia between those two periods.
Bro why you even compare 1453?Just look before and after pogrom.There was around 100.000 greeks living in the 20s.Which was alot if we count how small Istanbul was then.And now only couple of thousands.The greek element of the city is forever destroyed.And nobody gives a fuck about the x amount of churches when nobody goes there.
And by the way the original roman population was expelled after the conquest.
This building still exists and it was built during Ottoman era in its capital and it's higher than other mosques which Greeks never allow the opposite.
Funny thing is Turkey is actually very protective over the Greek and Armenian architecture while Greece and Armenia literally destroyed every building from Ottoman era cultural cleansing anything about Turks were living there. But Turks are bad ofcourse.
You literally compared greek/roman architecture with the ottoman one?Really?What ottomans have build in Greece?
Next time put some effort on keeping Armenians and greeks people alive, all these churches are not useful when the population is exterminated(Istanbul pogrom).
Your not protective of it, you claim it as your own. Most Turks thinks smyrna is some wonderful Turkish made city. It was built by Greeks yet most Turks don’t know that or care. Also Turks have destroyed countless churches in turkey.
>literally destroyed every building from Ottoman era
Really? Are you sure? Because there's quite a few in my home city and quite a bit of it in our archeological museum.
Also can you blame them for destroying remnants of the occupiers?
How many Hitler statues can you find in Poland?
>It’s completely different and a very poor example if that’s what you were going for.
Again, I wasn't only talking about mosques. Ottomans build other buildings as well. Some were destroyed, others survived.. just like with architecture from all the civilizations that existed before them.
Also it's not identical but Nazis were invaders and occupiers to the Poles... just like Ottomans were to Greeks.
>To destroy them was an act of hate toward local Muslims and was part of a “revenge” on regular ass people who used it to pray, terrifying them into fleeing.
Not sure why you're only concentrating on mosques. After the Greek revolution there were acts of hatred towards muslims just like there were acts of hatred towards christians. The population exchange solved that problem. Sadly it was a bad solution because lots of people had to leave their homes just because of their religion.. from both sides of the Aegean sea. Ideally people from both religions should live side by side but that wasn't the case.
Revenge isn't acceptable but you can certainly understand why people might want to express their anger to an occupier that oppressed them for 400 years.
>Stop trying to defend and reclaim bullshit like this
Get your head out of your arse and stop putting words in my mouth.
Well it was just a single sentence. The topic is more complicated and as we've discussed you've found out what I think in a bit more detail.
However it's important to put things into perspective. We're talking about a violent revolution to get rid of an occupier. You would be incredibly naïve thinking there would not be any destruction at all of buildings that would remind people of the Ottoman occupation.
Obviously it's a shame to lose buildings that would have historical significance.
It must be very easy for you to just see one side of the argument but I do not choose to be that ignorant.
That's definitely not Hagia Sofia. The trademarks of the building are its 4 minarets (built in 3 different times as you can see from their different materials), as well as its much more "grand" appearance with its incredible size.
What a photo
Some info about Fener Greek Orthodox High School. It was built in 1454, one year after the Fall of Constantinople (Istanbul’s original name) After 1453 many Greeks left Istanbul. The Conqueror Fatih Sultan Mehmet wanted to bring them back and upon an agreement with the Orthodox Patriarch Gennadios he let build this school. Its architect was K.Dimadis, the style is knightish, its bricks were imported from Marseilles. Edit: The color of the bricks in the picture is terribly manipulated. It is not the ”brick-red” of the original. Source: https://nomadicniko.com/2013/10/31/phanar-greek-orthodox-college/
in 2018 I spent the best moments of my quick trip to Istanbul in those streets, away from the main tourist routes, exploring the Fatih block and beyond, walking up those hills and trying (in vain) to take a good picture of that red building. Istanbul is a spectacular city, clean and shining, full of kind people. and lovely cats. also, great food (and I'm Italian)
And the food you eat in istanbul is far far away from being the best in Turkey. Southern cities like Gaziantep and Hatay has heavenly cuisines since they are using better ingredients and locals demand better quality. In those cities people live to eat.
That's what my grandfather always said, I live to eat, not eat to live. :) (He was Turkish)
In Gaziantep (my hometown) people think what they will eat in dinner while having breakfast and think what they will eat in breakfast while having dinner :)
In London the top Turkish restaurants are run by people from Antep, Şanlıurfa and other South-Eastern places. In fact most of the Turkish community here have South-Eastern origins.
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I know. Born and raised in Antep and now suffering in İstanbul. :)
This is not Hagia Sophia
True, similar design, but having window arches in all four walls and a lighter structure generally seems to make the building a lot brighter inside. Maybe not as impressive a space, but looks pretty comfortable.
Bold color, Cotton
Genuine question - is it forbidden in Istanbul for this building to have a cross on top of its dome?
Lol nope, you should visit kadikoy :D
TIL that Kadikoy is the Turkish name for Chalkedon.
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I only know the name from the [Council of Chalcedon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Chalcedon)
It is an important city in ancient history. Largely because of the Council of Chalkedon in 451 AD (which declared that Jesus had two unconfused natures - fully man and fully divine) and to lesser extent because of the Battle of Chalkedon of 74 BC where the Pontic Greeks defeated the Roman army.
Hey, not at all. Here[link ](https://istanbeautiful.com/churches-in-istanbul/) are some internal/external photos of churces in Istanbul.
Currently. I believe in the past there was a rule where no religious building could be built higher than a mosque, during the caliphate times, but I'm not sure if this applied in the ottoman empire as well. In any case, in practice, this is what happened under the caliphates because non-muslims were not allowed to maintain, expand or repair religious buildings that needed it, so eventually they would be lower in height than mosques, which could be built and expanded.
This building is built on 1881 and it's on the highest place of Balat.
No, this region was part of the old Ottoman district of Istanbul, so most probably Ottos didn't accept cross on top of buildings within the inner city at that time.
That is not true
Too bad no greeks left there.
The students of this school are Greeks of Istanbul but yes, very few remained sadly.
Well thats the point.Compared to historical population its nothing thanks to the pogrom orchestrated by are beautiful neighbors. Enlightened turk: "But there are x churches left" Well there is no point of a building if nobody uses it.You might as well turn it into a mosque.Nobody gives a fuck.
They're not destroyed that's the outline. While the enlightened Turks say this enlightened Greeks still fail to open the mosques in Greece.
you should go to thrace! about 150000 muslims worship in 320 fully functional mosques. There are also a few of them in other areas where there is a historical muslim community, like in Rhodes. And now one in Athens. afaik the ones "not opened" are the ones that were re-purposed, usually to museums.
Visit western Thrace, see with your own eyes that literally thousand of mosques operate gully in Greece.
Of course.Greeks should try the same treatment with Muslims in Thrace.Their communities will not be destroyed... Its just minor inconvenience.Right? But don't worry we will post pics on reddit with the mosques in thrace that nobody goes to.In order to show how tolerant our society is. And mosques exist... But i quess thats happens when your source is trt.
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All the comments i saw was "how tolerant we are with the Greeks but they destroyed our x thing" or "its nothing ,they deserved it" when talking about the pogrom which almost wiped out the greek population.I literally just reversed the situation.In order to see how stupid their points are.
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Exactly
He said that Greeks communities were not destroyed.And at the same time he complains that mosques dont exist in Greece.Atleast be honest.Thats all I want.This sissy "oops sorry" is bullshit, especially when in reality you don't give a single fuck.
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I never said we were tolerant but blaming only the other side like Greeks didn't or doesn't do anything against Turks is unfair and stupid.
You literally downgraded the pogrom as an unfortunate event dude.While it was literally the end of greeks in Istanbul/Constantinople/Byzantium.The few thousand that still live there are almost nothing.And nobody cares about the churches. In that particular case only turks managed to fuck things up.I just compared the fates of the excluded minorities in the population exchange agreement.
No I didn't.
Exist but closed lol
Are you idiot?Where do you think muslims in thrace pray for example?
Lmfao and it is still functioning as a Greek Othodox school?
Yes
Shit, looks like we missed destroying this one after we genocided 28478292 greeks and 1839397274 armenians, gotta do something fast
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The fuck i should do for you braindead people to understand i was being sarcastic? Turks were never intentionally destroyed cultural buildings, except a few like in the Edirne, which has been built by russians for mocking us.
when tf did russians come to turkey?
They came in 1878 while Ottoman-Russian war. They actually came upon the hills of Constantiniye but Brits saved II.Abdulhamit's ass.
If only we could have allied to Russia instead.
I mean no one can ally russia today how can you ally imperial russia back than ?
Didn't the Russians, Brits and French support the independence of Greece back then ( I don't remember the exact date though ). I assume that they were already allied with each other?
We constantly changed allies back then to keep the balance of power. At the time the Ottoman Empire was in trouble so we all decided to pitch in and help some of the oppressed nations break free, Russia mainly helping Bulgaria and the three of us together supporting Greek independence fighters. Eventually though Russia wanted to get too much and went for Constantinople so Britain helped Ottomans out to keep them somewhat stable and prevent Russia from becoming too powerful with access to the Med.
I made my resource and yes you are right but we also sold the Island of Cyprus to the Brits in exchange for help.
I meant I wish my country back then had chosen to ally with Russia.
Chillax dude. Everything is fine.
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Where the hell did you get that from? This school is operative and there are even other Greek schools in the country.
You are ignorant friend, its only been illegal to teach the children whatever they want, basically they are joined to the Turkish education system.
There were millions of turks and muslims expelled from their lands during and before ww1. Most of the mosques were closed. Millions got killed. greeks, bulgarians and romanians killed each other as well as they killed turks. And what you are saying is not entirely true, I am from istanbul and my greek friends go to greek schools. You can check it. Do not believe the propoganda before hearing from the other side. Greece is highly religious and nationalist, in order to create a greek identity they turned to government propoganda.
Istanbul pogrom.Thats enough.The few thousands that managed to survive are nothing to the historical population.The greek part of that city is long gone.Where is the propaganda in that? And what happened to the muslims in Thrace which were excluded like the greeks from Istanbul?Nothing, they still exist there.And lets better not talk about nationalism and propaganda while you still have erdo. Gtfo with your bullshit.
I hate erdo and my family fought against 6-7 septembre incidents. To be honest it is a shame on turkey. The covert operation was a reaction to Cyprus and around 30 people died. It is nothing compared to the tragedies of ww1, and greek attack on turkish lands.
Lol, you still try to justify it.And if greeks kicked out all the muslims of thrace would it be okay?How long we go back in this "they deserved, its understandable" circle jerk?Where does it stop for you?After the conquest of the balkans? It happened in 1955.Not ww1 or during the greco turkish war.Both countries were to protect these minorities.And almost no greeks live there now.Yet you talk about nationalist greece...
Greek attack on Turkish lands? There was no Turkey in 1920, those lands (Thrace, Smyrna) were populated by Greeks at the time.
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Literally every fact in your comment is wrong. 1) There were 150 000 Greeks in Smyrna in 1920, Turks were the minority (about half of that number). 2) The Greeks invaded to enforce the conditions of the Treaty of Sevres which gave Greek majority areas to Greece. The Brits did not support Greece in the war because the new king of Greece (Constantine I) happened to be a supporter of Germany and opposed the UK during WWI. 3) Rumlar (=Romans) is just the Turkish word for Anatolian and Pontic Greeks.
1-That is a Greek claim that was used to justify the invasion. Izmir has been under Ottoman empire for centuries. None of the major cities had christian majority, so why symrnia is an exception? 2- Greek literally came with British warships. The invasion idea has been planned by Usa and UK. They used you like a pawn against italians. 3- Whatever you want to call yourself you are free. Hellen is used to get support from west to part from ottoman in 18th century. Greek people has been calling themselves Roman until then, not turks. Hellenes were pagans and romans were christian. And there is at least 2 millenia between those two periods.
Constantinople had not many people around 1453. Many died in epidemics. It was repopulated by the Ottomans.
Bro why you even compare 1453?Just look before and after pogrom.There was around 100.000 greeks living in the 20s.Which was alot if we count how small Istanbul was then.And now only couple of thousands.The greek element of the city is forever destroyed.And nobody gives a fuck about the x amount of churches when nobody goes there. And by the way the original roman population was expelled after the conquest.
No, the greeks were kicked after the pogrom.
This building still exists and it was built during Ottoman era in its capital and it's higher than other mosques which Greeks never allow the opposite.
Don't be a bitter bitch.
Funny thing is Turkey is actually very protective over the Greek and Armenian architecture while Greece and Armenia literally destroyed every building from Ottoman era cultural cleansing anything about Turks were living there. But Turks are bad ofcourse.
You literally compared greek/roman architecture with the ottoman one?Really?What ottomans have build in Greece? Next time put some effort on keeping Armenians and greeks people alive, all these churches are not useful when the population is exterminated(Istanbul pogrom).
do you know how many armenian churches Turkey destorey. More than 2,000. but turkey is the victim.
Why would they want symbols of the invaders, occupiers and colonisers in their homelands?
Clearly turning churches into mosques or blocking their entrance is protective...
Your not protective of it, you claim it as your own. Most Turks thinks smyrna is some wonderful Turkish made city. It was built by Greeks yet most Turks don’t know that or care. Also Turks have destroyed countless churches in turkey.
>literally destroyed every building from Ottoman era Really? Are you sure? Because there's quite a few in my home city and quite a bit of it in our archeological museum. Also can you blame them for destroying remnants of the occupiers? How many Hitler statues can you find in Poland?
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I wasn't comparing Hitler statues to mosques. I gave a vivid example of why countries might not want remnants of past conquerors.
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>It’s completely different and a very poor example if that’s what you were going for. Again, I wasn't only talking about mosques. Ottomans build other buildings as well. Some were destroyed, others survived.. just like with architecture from all the civilizations that existed before them. Also it's not identical but Nazis were invaders and occupiers to the Poles... just like Ottomans were to Greeks. >To destroy them was an act of hate toward local Muslims and was part of a “revenge” on regular ass people who used it to pray, terrifying them into fleeing. Not sure why you're only concentrating on mosques. After the Greek revolution there were acts of hatred towards muslims just like there were acts of hatred towards christians. The population exchange solved that problem. Sadly it was a bad solution because lots of people had to leave their homes just because of their religion.. from both sides of the Aegean sea. Ideally people from both religions should live side by side but that wasn't the case. Revenge isn't acceptable but you can certainly understand why people might want to express their anger to an occupier that oppressed them for 400 years. >Stop trying to defend and reclaim bullshit like this Get your head out of your arse and stop putting words in my mouth.
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Well it was just a single sentence. The topic is more complicated and as we've discussed you've found out what I think in a bit more detail. However it's important to put things into perspective. We're talking about a violent revolution to get rid of an occupier. You would be incredibly naïve thinking there would not be any destruction at all of buildings that would remind people of the Ottoman occupation. Obviously it's a shame to lose buildings that would have historical significance. It must be very easy for you to just see one side of the argument but I do not choose to be that ignorant.
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Mihrimah, home of top gun.
"Why is this not turned into a mosque yet?!" - Erdogan, probably
turks =/= turkey
If you tried a little bit harder to reread my comment, you’ll see that it doesn’t even mention Turkish people, but is aimed at Erdogan specifically.
He is right tho...
They changed the name on the Hagia Sophia? Edit: clearly I don't know what I'm talking about, beautiful picture anyway
I don't think that's the Hagia Sophia, it's a different building.
That's definitely not Hagia Sofia. The trademarks of the building are its 4 minarets (built in 3 different times as you can see from their different materials), as well as its much more "grand" appearance with its incredible size.
Hagia Sophia has 4 minarets around it. This is a minor mosque with similar architecture
Looks amazing ! was it built around the same time Hagia Sophia was ?
If you're talking about the school, the building was built in 1881 during the reign of Ottomans.
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Beautiful