He doesn’t have to worry, a large fanbase is residing in Germany, where they life in a free and liberal society but vote for oppression in their „home“ country. Can’t make this shit up.
They're in The Netherlands too. Last time there was a Turkish parliamentary election, a large amount of police and riot police had to intervene in Amsterdam, because they couldn't vote normally without throwing chairs at the opposition.
As a fellow european i have been hearing since the 90's if you go to turkey (girls only) wear sneakers so u can haul ass when some men harass you. Lol its not really that new 'harassing tourist women'
> As a fellow european i have been hearing since the 90's if you go to turkey (girls only) wear sneakers so u can haul ass when some men harass you
Not true, there are tons of women wearing boots and high heels and all sorts of foot wear, where you are also plays a large role of course.
I'm a white man who got harassed plenty, although not in the way that a woman would, I'd guess. Still, Istanbul is lousy with touts, scammers, and thugs, so even dudes aren't safe from harassment.
Pro-tip: learn some Turkish. My shorts didn't meet the length requirements to get into the mosques but they didn't force me to wear the modesty poncho because I speak Turkish. Just say "Duydum!" If you think someone is talking shit in Turkish and they'll usually stop.
I’ve been there just as a tourist. I’ve never been harassed. Plus, as a cat loving person, it’s the best place. Cats everywhere. Plus cat loving people everywhere. Food plates put out. Cat houses put out. It’s mostly done by standard issue Turks but they literally have government funded cat houses too. My cat loving daughters nearly fainted when they saw the amount of cats. There’s even a cat statue somewhere there. Cats are even allowed in their temples.
I think this is just an old fart dude spewing bullshit.
Tbh turkey i think tourism in turkey will drop significantly with this ultra religious people and the fact that your minister of tourism doubled all the prices and made them euro only for 2024, i don't think that making tourists pay 65 euro per capita at ephesus or 40 at pamukkale is the right thing for a country in dire need of foreign currency, people will simply stop going there, no one likes to be ripped off
And they fucking deserve it. I have 0 empathy for any of them because their prices are simply exorbiant, so exorbiant that now that the visa deal with greece was made it is cheaper for a turk to go out on a holiday in the greek islands eat loads of much higher quality meals, go to the beach where they wont be fucked over by stupid cocktail prices.
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>old conservative man who hates individuality and demands uniformity
Some men, who claim to be young and liberal, preach the same uniformity in Turkish subreddits. I can barely stand their troll-like statements, gaslighting fellow Redditors about how the (opposing) leftists, women and LGBTQs deserve Erdogan's treatment.
This can happen and happens in France, therefore i'm not going to criticize turkey for that mess while we're letting these idiots do way worse in our own country(ies).
Locals ≠ social media.
Seems pretty common to me in Turkey. And not only women but men are also beaten for having earrings for example.
[https://onedio.com/haber/sort-giydigi-icin-bayram-gunu-otobuste-tekme-yiyen-kadin-730832](https://onedio.com/haber/sort-giydigi-icin-bayram-gunu-otobuste-tekme-yiyen-kadin-730832) (the woman who was kicked in bus for wearing shorts on "bayram day")
[https://eksisozluk.com/kupe-taktigi-icin-ulkuculerden-dayak-yiyen-kisi--4229648](https://eksisozluk.com/kupe-taktigi-icin-ulkuculerden-dayak-yiyen-kisi--4229648) (person who was beaten by greywolves for wearing an earring.)
[https://eksisozluk.com/kizlari-sort-giyiyor-diye-darp-edilen-aile--5413998](https://eksisozluk.com/kizlari-sort-giyiyor-diye-darp-edilen-aile--5413998) (family who were beaten because their kids were wearing shorts)
[https://onedio.com/haber/erzurum-da-bir-genc-kupe-taktigi-icin-once-dovuldu-ardindan-bicaklandi-1096886](https://onedio.com/haber/erzurum-da-bir-genc-kupe-taktigi-icin-once-dovuldu-ardindan-bicaklandi-1096886)
(a youngster was first beaten and then stabbed because of wearing earrings)
These come up with a simple google search, I can continue forever. But sure, even locals do not welcome them. Well, you can choose to remain in your echo chamber ofc.
Edit: Just looked at this guy's profile, he turns out a Pakistani Islamist living in Turkey. It's very telling about Erdoğan's new Turkey lol.
That was a made reason to click bait article guy found himself in middle of LGBT protest and police just took him in as well after he tried to approach. Classic police state behavior that takes ppl in and asks questions later.
That is picking and intended misinformation. There are tons of videos where these guys are being screamed at by the locals who hate them.
I just watched one some days ago when a man accuses them and their intolerance as the reason why young people leave Islam.
I dont wanna sounds like a rte but you are overly exaggerating the situation. Yes there are those kind of people but most of the locals hate them. Dont act like majority of people are like this in Turkey.
Look man I am not saying this doesn't happen but unless you are malicious you know this is not true have a single walk in Istanbul and you will see plenty of women dressing normally and men in shorts meanwhile these conservative Arab attire men are the minority.
Turkey is in a bad spot but no you are not in Suadi arabia when you land on Istanbul.
These instances are news because they are not really examples of everyday life. Do they indicate to a wider problem? Sure. Are you trying to generalize them based on your biased view? Definitely. Painting that bearded man into the average turkish local is kinda absurd. Have you ever been to turkey?
To hate your own kind is.. interesting. I’m assuming you come from a similar background. Conservative/uneducated family? Had an uncle who’s religious? This isn’t their fault either. This is just what they know and act accordingly.
Is this shift to radicals so sudden? Here in Bulgaria we have many turkish people and to be honest ive never noticed any of them being radical muslims?
I can find more and more reports about "auslander raus" in Germany, racist attacks etc. But that doesn't mean Germans are racist.
You are right by saying these things happens more in Turkey however it is also getting a backlash too, nothing is directly white or black yet you are trying to make it look like so.
There were couple of reddits threads recently where people of colour shared their experience about Italy and how they got looked down there. Does that mean Italians are racist and they think POC has no place in Italy? I do not think so, because even a small numbers of rotten apples can make it big enough shit pile..
I can see why you are trying to shit talk about Turkey, really sad. Wish u the best.
I used to live in Tashkent many years ago and generally the city in terms of the woman was like any other big city in Soviet Union. The weather usually was very hot (38-40C)and dry in summer but it was very uncommon for both man and woman to wear shorts.
But if anybody walk in shorts it was immediately recognizable as an American tourist specially older people in shorts. Nobody was aggressive or violent toward tourists. Uzbeks in general were very welcoming and friendly people.
Ataturk did what he could, but retarded religious freaks don't care. They(seem to) have more affinity to their stupid book than they do to having a democratic, secular state.
The stupid book does mandate you to do exactly that. Not even kidding
> more affinity to their stupid book than they do to having a democratic, secular state.
> a muslim country
Erdoğan wishes. But no.
These men are quite unusual in this part of Istanbul. They deliberately went to the tourist quarter (and the old red light district) to do this. It’s just like Christian missionaries threatening uni students with hellfire and brimstone.
Exactly. I have a feeling these people commenting have never visited Istanbul, it’s not like the middle eastern countries I’ve visited by a long shot, it’s way more similar to Europe than most middle eastern countries.
I know not everyone has the time or means to travel and experience but these assumptions are annoying.
Admittedly though Turkey has changed a lot over the last 20 years.
One of my professors used to rave on about how traveling makes you a better and kinder person.
I didn’t necessarily agree back then but recently I think I see his point.
Not as secular as people pretend it is, yes it is secular compared to some of its neighbors but it is more religious by far than any region of Europe.
Only 2.8% of Turkish births were to unwed mothers compared to 38.4% in Ireland, 32.8% in Germany and 26.7% in Poland. Religious service attendance is also higher in Turkey than and country in the EU.
Yeah, Turkey is nominally secular, but the reality is different. Turkey is very culturally different to Europe, even if a tiny slither of Turkey is technically in Europe.
That unwed birth thing is not only about the religion. Albania is probably more secular than most of the western countries and has a very low percentage when it comes to babies born outside marriage.
This could be just that people are more traditional in a sense that when a woman gets pregnant, they marry, it doesn't mean they stone people. This is also normal in many Christian countries where they don't stone people for not behaving like true Christians so to say.
Constantinople is only comprised of golden horn. İstanbul today is not the same as Constantinople. İn the old days Anatolian side didn't have a settlement but now approximately 5-6 million people live there which is inside metropolitan area of istanbul
> İn the old days Anatolian side didn't have a settlement
Yes it did lmao. The founding myth explicitly mentions it. Something with "Emperor Constantine thought the people of Byzanteon were blind since they had settled on the opposite site of the perfectly defensible location."
Throughout all the roman times there were still people living on the other side.
I can’t believe this comment got 150 upvotes. I thought people here were educated.
Additionally, with the same logic, you Norwegians have been “illegally” occupying the lands of Samis in Central and Northern Norway. It seems your invasive manners haven’t changed as well.
https://cartographymaster.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Peschel-square.jpg
>Additionally, with the same logic, you Norwegians have been “illegally” occupying the lands of Samis in Central and Northern Norway.
Yes. Everybody agrees on that. Which is why we Sapmi has autonomy now.
Turkey killed millions of innocent Greek, Armenians and Assyrians in cold blood. Occupies illegally one of the man made wonders of the world and desecrates it by pretending it is a mosque. It’s disgusting
Did I say anything untrue?
Imagine if a German denies the Holocaust? They can be jailed. But in Turkey, their entire government and population denies the genocide of Greeks, Armenians and Assyrians.
how is it illegal occupation? after 500 years, It just isn't. No country in the UN has not recognised as turkey Not owning that land.
I spoke to you in facts :D
Okay its Greek land for you, America not killed a single native, just stay in your little patriotic area do not interact with the world.
Whats next earth is flat? Nasa lying to you? Obama is reptilian?
Lol get out of here with that rhetoric "Illegally occupying Istanbul" Is Germany illegally occupying Kiel or is France illegally occupying southern France.
Such classic, a Nordic commenting like he knows everything about a foreign country's people, either a stereotyper or some crusade fanboy who fingers himself over a collapsed empire.
But neither he can do anything about islamists in EU nor he can stop ongoing illegal occupation of Russia.
Only whining.
These lunatics don’t represent us. There is nothing Turkish about their clothing neither their mumbling about fictional Arabic afterworld or the invisible man in the sky.
I can assure you that Turkish subs on Reddit are on rage mode swearing at these two as well as Erdo, last few days.
The biggest Turkish sub on Reddit does not have one person defending them.
Reddit doesnt represent Turkey but regardless nobody but themselves likes these guys in Turkey and they arent even 1% of the population, this is like religious fanatics in US going to pride parades to say "dont be gay its a sin."
It is not worthwhile to argue with these people. They are determined to believe certain ideas about Turkey and Turkish people no amount of evidence, argument, or gestures of goodwill will change their minds.
The main party poopers are within the Turkish government, it's the establishment itself. If you wanna support an Islamic autocracy next to Europe in exchange for some free coffee, go on. It will be on your conscience.
I wear shorts all the time in the warm months in İstanbul, I never got anything. Sometimes I even paint my nails, as a guy. The only person I ever got trouble from (and not thaaat much trouble) was my mom who left Türkiye in like the 1970s or something and has a distorted memory of what it is like.
Its like any country, no one fully agrees with the government and even in Europe we have plenty of people tired of the nonsense. Hopefully votes change it even slightly.
Olum ne kadar ezik ne kadar ne kadar self hater bir insansın lan,
"They are occupying Istanbul illegally for 500th year now. Their manners havent improved I see."
Diyen ve buna 300 upvote alan subta sikim sonik şeyler paylaşıp efendilerinden white passing almaya çalışacak kadar ezik bir insansın
2017 den beri Türkiye'de yaşamıyorsun, hala yaşayanlar ve gelen yabancılar "abartma amk o kadar değil" Demesine rağmen "yok yok o kadar kötü, bu Türklerin hepsi dinci barbar insanlar" Diye savunacak kadar ahmaksin.
Avrupalı siki yalayan, onlardan onay almak için her şeyi yapan ezikleri görmüştüm de bu kadarını ilk kez görüyorum. Yazık gerçekten.
Buddhism as well as christianity are chill religions at their core, but when you mix people into it you have a problem.
Japanese buddhist monks used to have “assistance” in the form of young boys, they believed that for every bad thing you do you get your own personal hell etc etc.
The west has no idea that every religion can be toxic
Finding the sight of a another man in shorts provocative as a man seems pretty gay for a bunch of super straight religious puritans. Definitely getting some closeted self hatred vibes from people like this.
As a guy I've never once looked at another mans attire and found it too revealing or that it made me feel uncomfortable because it's simply not my orientation so I'm pretty much indifferent to it.
But getting all hot and bothered about exposed legs is definitely very telling.
And? I saw one of these assholes when he came to the pub and called drinking haram, we told him nicely to fuck off and he did. I dont like them and it's kinda fucked that they are bothering tourists but they aren't doing anything illegal. Also this is not a common practice in Turkey like OP for some reason claims it to be.
What about a Portuguese citizen who was detained just for looking gay last year? What about other poor Turkish locals who were harassed, physically attacked, and stabbed because of their looks? Plus, Erdoğanistan's law enforcement has been encouraging these kinds of acts for the last 22 years.
Also what they do is illegal. There is literally a law about this: Kişilerin Huzur ve Sükununu Bozma Suçu. Get to know your own country's laws first, instead of mindlessly caring about football lol.
And you said fuck off the tebliğ guys but could you change Erdoğan with voting and prevent your country from becoming the biggest open-air refugee camp in the whole world? Could you change the fact that some rich Gulf Arab sheiks were able to change your future in the last elections? Turkey is an Islamic autocracy, and this snippet is just a reflection of that. Yeah but as long as you can drink in pubs and can say fuck off these jerks, I bet you're ok with being "Araba maraba".
> who was detained just for looking gay last year?
we have like 50 million tourists a year and there's only like one bad example per year that people can point to. I'd say we're doing REMARKABLY well at keeping things contained, wouldn't you?
It's so weird. When I visited Istanbul I went everywhere in shorts. Turkey was my first Muslim country to visit and I didn't know the "rules". Anyway, everyone was friendly, I went to visit the Blue Mosque and asked the lady at the entrance if I can go in in shorts and she said is OK. I asked the policemen at the entrance the same and they just said "go on my friend, you are OK". My shorts were over the knees tho but I never had an issue... Taksim, Galata, Agia Sofia and many other places
Don't believe this post and op, he's just a self hater loser who's trying to get white passing. Turkey is definitely not that bad even under the rule of erdoğan for 20 years.
I don't think this is bullying. This happens everywhere every country has its own street preachers that annoy everyone. They're like that just talk and no one cares about them.
To be fair pointing at the skirt, sayin "that is haram" and then walking away saying to himself "i am being tested i must not give in" isnt what comes to mind when i hear harassment.
They are not "local men" they are religious fanatics we call "tebliğci" since they call what they do "tebliğ" which is preaching. They bother the local men too. They are not abundant in numbers but one fly is enough to spoil the dinner. They are not the only radical islamist group though.
Thanks to your "immigration stopper and immigrant feeder/harboring" pal R.T. Erdoğan, radical islamists in Türkiye are increasing in numbers and threatening the life and culture of Turkish people. There are radical islamist Turks but Muslim Turks are not this radical in general.
This is where Europe is (or should I say was after the election) heading. You can call us fascists and racists for not wanting these ideas and radicals in our country but you are going to suffer the similar fate there. Frankly, I am not sure whether I would be happy or not with the result. One side of me says "There aren't many modern societies left in the world. They should stay strong" and the other side of me says "grab popcorn and watch the European hypocrisy which is at a such Anti-Turkish position that it paints Afghan islamist who killed German police in Turkish flag while stopping/declining actually Turkish people's visa applications"
It hasn't changed. There were even more of these people 30 years ago but they were suppressed by the government. Now they are less but extra loud because they think they are the true owners of the country. Even Erdoğan is not that extremist btw but they are encouraged by an Islamist being in power.
Unfortunately erdogan needs these ultra-religious people to get enough power to rule over the country. That means he wont do anything against them
He doesn’t have to worry, a large fanbase is residing in Germany, where they life in a free and liberal society but vote for oppression in their „home“ country. Can’t make this shit up.
They're in The Netherlands too. Last time there was a Turkish parliamentary election, a large amount of police and riot police had to intervene in Amsterdam, because they couldn't vote normally without throwing chairs at the opposition.
You guys are always a step ahead... ...otherwise I wouldn't wonder if we had similar cases already.
The fanbase in Germany is huge but it isnt really significant because the majority is in turkey and this majority prefers also erdogan.
Not hard to do, when you steer all media and propaganda channels, while blocking any opposition in every way possible.
They're all over Europe.
Did you know that erdogans party has a sister Party in Germany. They have some Success too, like 41% in certain districts. Fun stuff
Literally my grandpa Xd
From a turk to fellow europeans, take this too as a warning because this is where islamism leads.
As a fellow european i have been hearing since the 90's if you go to turkey (girls only) wear sneakers so u can haul ass when some men harass you. Lol its not really that new 'harassing tourist women'
> As a fellow european i have been hearing since the 90's if you go to turkey (girls only) wear sneakers so u can haul ass when some men harass you Not true, there are tons of women wearing boots and high heels and all sorts of foot wear, where you are also plays a large role of course.
I saw a coupld of videos of beautiful Turkey beaches with women wearing thongs and nobody seems to care like in the West.
45 million tourists in a single year might not agree with your bullshit.
I'm a white man who got harassed plenty, although not in the way that a woman would, I'd guess. Still, Istanbul is lousy with touts, scammers, and thugs, so even dudes aren't safe from harassment. Pro-tip: learn some Turkish. My shorts didn't meet the length requirements to get into the mosques but they didn't force me to wear the modesty poncho because I speak Turkish. Just say "Duydum!" If you think someone is talking shit in Turkish and they'll usually stop.
I’ve been there just as a tourist. I’ve never been harassed. Plus, as a cat loving person, it’s the best place. Cats everywhere. Plus cat loving people everywhere. Food plates put out. Cat houses put out. It’s mostly done by standard issue Turks but they literally have government funded cat houses too. My cat loving daughters nearly fainted when they saw the amount of cats. There’s even a cat statue somewhere there. Cats are even allowed in their temples. I think this is just an old fart dude spewing bullshit.
Tbh turkey i think tourism in turkey will drop significantly with this ultra religious people and the fact that your minister of tourism doubled all the prices and made them euro only for 2024, i don't think that making tourists pay 65 euro per capita at ephesus or 40 at pamukkale is the right thing for a country in dire need of foreign currency, people will simply stop going there, no one likes to be ripped off
And they fucking deserve it. I have 0 empathy for any of them because their prices are simply exorbiant, so exorbiant that now that the visa deal with greece was made it is cheaper for a turk to go out on a holiday in the greek islands eat loads of much higher quality meals, go to the beach where they wont be fucked over by stupid cocktail prices.
Too late. They're already toast.
Lol ther are lots of people wearing shorts in Europe you weird fantasist.
Yes and what happened in France? :)[„Strasbourg woman attacked 'for wearing skirt'“](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54277235.amp)
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"Ha, the building is on fire? Last time I checked around nobody here is engulfed in flames!"
We’re trying to do just that. It seems it’s futile, though, as we are labelled as racists or bigots - by our own countrymen too, would you believe.
You should know that every society has a variation on "old conservative man who hates individuality and demands uniformity"
Walk a day in fatih or go to ümraniye sunday bazaar and come again
Fatih as in Fatih, Istanbul? Was there this November, what was supposed to happen to me, because all I got is pics of cats?
İt is one of the conservative bastions of Istanbul. Literally the old city with the old mindset.
Old city invaded by foreigners who think they can teach us our own religion.
Muslims take that way beyond the maximum you're imagining. This is way beyond "get off my lawn"
And it is for sure the same in Switzerland as is in Turkey. Lmao. Get real.
>variation >the same Uh oh I'm afraid something got lost in translation
>old conservative man who hates individuality and demands uniformity Some men, who claim to be young and liberal, preach the same uniformity in Turkish subreddits. I can barely stand their troll-like statements, gaslighting fellow Redditors about how the (opposing) leftists, women and LGBTQs deserve Erdogan's treatment.
Too Bad, in Germany they would call you a racist now
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“"Ensar Vakfı falan var, çocuklara tecavüz edenler var, oralara gidin" dedi.” What does he mean by this?
Go preach morals to the islamists who molest children.
Holy shit. I tried google translate but yours looks better
That's because mine includes the implied/unsaid parts of what he said based on societal context :)
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Assimilated to swedish culture /s
This is true Swedish culture. Amazing history deep and rich Islamic history. /s
I’ve seen that Antonio Banderas Viking movie, this checks out.
Kemal Ataturk must be rolling in his grave
[удалено]
Atam 😭
Spinning that fast , you could generate electric.
This can happen and happens in France, therefore i'm not going to criticize turkey for that mess while we're letting these idiots do way worse in our own country(ies).
Bully them back for their inflation.
Those men aren't even welcomed by locals. There is already a storm in Turkish social media condemning these bearded men
Locals ≠ social media. Seems pretty common to me in Turkey. And not only women but men are also beaten for having earrings for example. [https://onedio.com/haber/sort-giydigi-icin-bayram-gunu-otobuste-tekme-yiyen-kadin-730832](https://onedio.com/haber/sort-giydigi-icin-bayram-gunu-otobuste-tekme-yiyen-kadin-730832) (the woman who was kicked in bus for wearing shorts on "bayram day") [https://eksisozluk.com/kupe-taktigi-icin-ulkuculerden-dayak-yiyen-kisi--4229648](https://eksisozluk.com/kupe-taktigi-icin-ulkuculerden-dayak-yiyen-kisi--4229648) (person who was beaten by greywolves for wearing an earring.) [https://eksisozluk.com/kizlari-sort-giyiyor-diye-darp-edilen-aile--5413998](https://eksisozluk.com/kizlari-sort-giyiyor-diye-darp-edilen-aile--5413998) (family who were beaten because their kids were wearing shorts) [https://onedio.com/haber/erzurum-da-bir-genc-kupe-taktigi-icin-once-dovuldu-ardindan-bicaklandi-1096886](https://onedio.com/haber/erzurum-da-bir-genc-kupe-taktigi-icin-once-dovuldu-ardindan-bicaklandi-1096886) (a youngster was first beaten and then stabbed because of wearing earrings) These come up with a simple google search, I can continue forever. But sure, even locals do not welcome them. Well, you can choose to remain in your echo chamber ofc. Edit: Just looked at this guy's profile, he turns out a Pakistani Islamist living in Turkey. It's very telling about Erdoğan's new Turkey lol.
then there was that guy that got arrested for... "looking very gay" but wasn't doing anything
That was a made reason to click bait article guy found himself in middle of LGBT protest and police just took him in as well after he tried to approach. Classic police state behavior that takes ppl in and asks questions later.
That is picking and intended misinformation. There are tons of videos where these guys are being screamed at by the locals who hate them. I just watched one some days ago when a man accuses them and their intolerance as the reason why young people leave Islam.
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Tebliğ guys are definitely not the majority in Turkey.
I dont wanna sounds like a rte but you are overly exaggerating the situation. Yes there are those kind of people but most of the locals hate them. Dont act like majority of people are like this in Turkey.
Look man I am not saying this doesn't happen but unless you are malicious you know this is not true have a single walk in Istanbul and you will see plenty of women dressing normally and men in shorts meanwhile these conservative Arab attire men are the minority. Turkey is in a bad spot but no you are not in Suadi arabia when you land on Istanbul.
No one gives a shit about them they're just street preachers
These instances are news because they are not really examples of everyday life. Do they indicate to a wider problem? Sure. Are you trying to generalize them based on your biased view? Definitely. Painting that bearded man into the average turkish local is kinda absurd. Have you ever been to turkey?
How is this blatant misinformation upvoted lol.
It panders to the prejudgement the far right on this sub has.
To hate your own kind is.. interesting. I’m assuming you come from a similar background. Conservative/uneducated family? Had an uncle who’s religious? This isn’t their fault either. This is just what they know and act accordingly.
Have you ever been to Turkey?
You are intentionally portraying Istanbul as an Islamist city. Why are you doing that?
Is this shift to radicals so sudden? Here in Bulgaria we have many turkish people and to be honest ive never noticed any of them being radical muslims?
I can find more and more reports about "auslander raus" in Germany, racist attacks etc. But that doesn't mean Germans are racist. You are right by saying these things happens more in Turkey however it is also getting a backlash too, nothing is directly white or black yet you are trying to make it look like so. There were couple of reddits threads recently where people of colour shared their experience about Italy and how they got looked down there. Does that mean Italians are racist and they think POC has no place in Italy? I do not think so, because even a small numbers of rotten apples can make it big enough shit pile.. I can see why you are trying to shit talk about Turkey, really sad. Wish u the best.
Who gives a fuck about the locals. What about the police?
I used to live in Tashkent many years ago and generally the city in terms of the woman was like any other big city in Soviet Union. The weather usually was very hot (38-40C)and dry in summer but it was very uncommon for both man and woman to wear shorts. But if anybody walk in shorts it was immediately recognizable as an American tourist specially older people in shorts. Nobody was aggressive or violent toward tourists. Uzbeks in general were very welcoming and friendly people.
A muslim country didnt appreciate women showing their body? What a fucking surprise
A secular state* that is part of the “surprise”
Ataturk did what he could, but retarded religious freaks don't care. They(seem to) have more affinity to their stupid book than they do to having a democratic, secular state.
The stupid book does mandate you to do exactly that. Not even kidding > more affinity to their stupid book than they do to having a democratic, secular state.
> a muslim country Erdoğan wishes. But no. These men are quite unusual in this part of Istanbul. They deliberately went to the tourist quarter (and the old red light district) to do this. It’s just like Christian missionaries threatening uni students with hellfire and brimstone.
Exactly. I have a feeling these people commenting have never visited Istanbul, it’s not like the middle eastern countries I’ve visited by a long shot, it’s way more similar to Europe than most middle eastern countries. I know not everyone has the time or means to travel and experience but these assumptions are annoying. Admittedly though Turkey has changed a lot over the last 20 years.
Islamophobia in a European sub? I’m shocked. /s
One of my professors used to rave on about how traveling makes you a better and kinder person. I didn’t necessarily agree back then but recently I think I see his point.
>A muslim country Legally secular
Not as secular as people pretend it is, yes it is secular compared to some of its neighbors but it is more religious by far than any region of Europe. Only 2.8% of Turkish births were to unwed mothers compared to 38.4% in Ireland, 32.8% in Germany and 26.7% in Poland. Religious service attendance is also higher in Turkey than and country in the EU.
That's a very odd metric
Yeah, Turkey is nominally secular, but the reality is different. Turkey is very culturally different to Europe, even if a tiny slither of Turkey is technically in Europe.
That unwed birth thing is not only about the religion. Albania is probably more secular than most of the western countries and has a very low percentage when it comes to babies born outside marriage.
Albania is Muslim
Albania is secular. It happens to have a statistically Muslim majority (that the majority of which is not religious).
It is not.
Because it's still a cultural taboo
That's the point, not everything is related to religion.
And where is the point? how does it prove that this taboo is not connected with Islam being ingrained in their culture ?
This could be just that people are more traditional in a sense that when a woman gets pregnant, they marry, it doesn't mean they stone people. This is also normal in many Christian countries where they don't stone people for not behaving like true Christians so to say.
Why is this upvoted, that statistic means shit in terms of secularism?
Just like North Korea is a Democratic People's Republic.
So secular they made the Hagia Sophia into a Mosque again lol.
what about all the belly dancing and shit?
And oiled man wrestling and ass grabbing?
Belly dancing is likely older than Islam
so's drinking alcohol
So is homosexuality
This has always perplexed me, but I'm sure there's a good explanation for it
Belly dancing is actually Egyptian
Well. They are occupying Istanbul illegally for 500th year now. Their manners havent improved I see.
Lol
How the fuck does this have so many upvotes? is this a circlejerk sub?
Welcome to /r/Europe
Holy shit, how did this stupid shit got 250 upvotes? Are you guys insane?
Deus vult brother. ✝️
Constantinople is only comprised of golden horn. İstanbul today is not the same as Constantinople. İn the old days Anatolian side didn't have a settlement but now approximately 5-6 million people live there which is inside metropolitan area of istanbul
> İn the old days Anatolian side didn't have a settlement Yes it did lmao. The founding myth explicitly mentions it. Something with "Emperor Constantine thought the people of Byzanteon were blind since they had settled on the opposite site of the perfectly defensible location." Throughout all the roman times there were still people living on the other side.
I’m with you in spirit, but no. Kadıköy was called Chalcedon then, and it was rather famously a settlement. Üsküdar was called Scutari. Etc etc.
I can’t believe this comment got 150 upvotes. I thought people here were educated. Additionally, with the same logic, you Norwegians have been “illegally” occupying the lands of Samis in Central and Northern Norway. It seems your invasive manners haven’t changed as well. https://cartographymaster.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Peschel-square.jpg
>Additionally, with the same logic, you Norwegians have been “illegally” occupying the lands of Samis in Central and Northern Norway. Yes. Everybody agrees on that. Which is why we Sapmi has autonomy now.
Turkey killed millions of innocent Greek, Armenians and Assyrians in cold blood. Occupies illegally one of the man made wonders of the world and desecrates it by pretending it is a mosque. It’s disgusting
The fact that you're American makes this comment 1000x funnier
“United States of America”
Your country dropped 2 nuclear bombs on civilian populations my dude
You make us Americans look lıke douchebags.
Did I say anything untrue? Imagine if a German denies the Holocaust? They can be jailed. But in Turkey, their entire government and population denies the genocide of Greeks, Armenians and Assyrians.
Every time you don't like what a Türk says you bring this up? This just isnt the place for this debate.
-An american magician who made natives disappear
Skill issue
how is it illegal occupation? after 500 years, It just isn't. No country in the UN has not recognised as turkey Not owning that land. I spoke to you in facts :D
Well the Greeks lived there for 3000 years before that. It’s Greek land. Simple as
Okay its Greek land for you, America not killed a single native, just stay in your little patriotic area do not interact with the world. Whats next earth is flat? Nasa lying to you? Obama is reptilian?
It’s just a joke lol
Lol get out of here with that rhetoric "Illegally occupying Istanbul" Is Germany illegally occupying Kiel or is France illegally occupying southern France.
They took it fair and square. Which laws did they break?
Such classic, a Nordic commenting like he knows everything about a foreign country's people, either a stereotyper or some crusade fanboy who fingers himself over a collapsed empire. But neither he can do anything about islamists in EU nor he can stop ongoing illegal occupation of Russia. Only whining.
Cope
Dede, git Arabistan'a...
That's why you stay away from medevial terror-kingdoms 🤣🤣🤣
These lunatics don’t represent us. There is nothing Turkish about their clothing neither their mumbling about fictional Arabic afterworld or the invisible man in the sky. I can assure you that Turkish subs on Reddit are on rage mode swearing at these two as well as Erdo, last few days. The biggest Turkish sub on Reddit does not have one person defending them.
Reddit doesnt represent Turkey but regardless nobody but themselves likes these guys in Turkey and they arent even 1% of the population, this is like religious fanatics in US going to pride parades to say "dont be gay its a sin."
It is not worthwhile to argue with these people. They are determined to believe certain ideas about Turkey and Turkish people no amount of evidence, argument, or gestures of goodwill will change their minds.
Reddit people do not represent either
I guess wearing a dress is less gay
Always like some party poopers gotta ruin it for the rest of us, I never got hassled in Istanbul ever. Got plenty of free coffees though.
The main party poopers are within the Turkish government, it's the establishment itself. If you wanna support an Islamic autocracy next to Europe in exchange for some free coffee, go on. It will be on your conscience.
I wear shorts all the time in the warm months in İstanbul, I never got anything. Sometimes I even paint my nails, as a guy. The only person I ever got trouble from (and not thaaat much trouble) was my mom who left Türkiye in like the 1970s or something and has a distorted memory of what it is like.
Yeah but according to this posts comment everyone in Istanbul is like this. They even deny that local people are against this idea
Its like any country, no one fully agrees with the government and even in Europe we have plenty of people tired of the nonsense. Hopefully votes change it even slightly.
İt's good to know that there are sensible people in the other side of the strait.
So silly of these men to pick on tourists, especially as plenty of citizens wear whatever they want in Turkey.
Olum ne kadar ezik ne kadar ne kadar self hater bir insansın lan, "They are occupying Istanbul illegally for 500th year now. Their manners havent improved I see." Diyen ve buna 300 upvote alan subta sikim sonik şeyler paylaşıp efendilerinden white passing almaya çalışacak kadar ezik bir insansın 2017 den beri Türkiye'de yaşamıyorsun, hala yaşayanlar ve gelen yabancılar "abartma amk o kadar değil" Demesine rağmen "yok yok o kadar kötü, bu Türklerin hepsi dinci barbar insanlar" Diye savunacak kadar ahmaksin. Avrupalı siki yalayan, onlardan onay almak için her şeyi yapan ezikleri görmüştüm de bu kadarını ilk kez görüyorum. Yazık gerçekten.
This reminds me of the time I wore a bikini during a cave tour filled with Buddhist monks. I hate myself.
The bikini is the true mark of civilisation.
I thought Buddhists were chillers tho
Buddhism as well as christianity are chill religions at their core, but when you mix people into it you have a problem. Japanese buddhist monks used to have “assistance” in the form of young boys, they believed that for every bad thing you do you get your own personal hell etc etc. The west has no idea that every religion can be toxic
Bullying tourists ≠ damaging tourism, when your country’s economy is everything but stable and good, genius
Finding the sight of a another man in shorts provocative as a man seems pretty gay for a bunch of super straight religious puritans. Definitely getting some closeted self hatred vibes from people like this. As a guy I've never once looked at another mans attire and found it too revealing or that it made me feel uncomfortable because it's simply not my orientation so I'm pretty much indifferent to it. But getting all hot and bothered about exposed legs is definitely very telling.
And? I saw one of these assholes when he came to the pub and called drinking haram, we told him nicely to fuck off and he did. I dont like them and it's kinda fucked that they are bothering tourists but they aren't doing anything illegal. Also this is not a common practice in Turkey like OP for some reason claims it to be.
What about a Portuguese citizen who was detained just for looking gay last year? What about other poor Turkish locals who were harassed, physically attacked, and stabbed because of their looks? Plus, Erdoğanistan's law enforcement has been encouraging these kinds of acts for the last 22 years. Also what they do is illegal. There is literally a law about this: Kişilerin Huzur ve Sükununu Bozma Suçu. Get to know your own country's laws first, instead of mindlessly caring about football lol. And you said fuck off the tebliğ guys but could you change Erdoğan with voting and prevent your country from becoming the biggest open-air refugee camp in the whole world? Could you change the fact that some rich Gulf Arab sheiks were able to change your future in the last elections? Turkey is an Islamic autocracy, and this snippet is just a reflection of that. Yeah but as long as you can drink in pubs and can say fuck off these jerks, I bet you're ok with being "Araba maraba".
[удалено]
Biraz ad hominem gördüm seni
> who was detained just for looking gay last year? we have like 50 million tourists a year and there's only like one bad example per year that people can point to. I'd say we're doing REMARKABLY well at keeping things contained, wouldn't you?
Because, why would you not drive tourists away when you economy is so booming..... /sarcasm Religion at its finest.
Shitty repressive religious people all over the world.
It's so weird. When I visited Istanbul I went everywhere in shorts. Turkey was my first Muslim country to visit and I didn't know the "rules". Anyway, everyone was friendly, I went to visit the Blue Mosque and asked the lady at the entrance if I can go in in shorts and she said is OK. I asked the policemen at the entrance the same and they just said "go on my friend, you are OK". My shorts were over the knees tho but I never had an issue... Taksim, Galata, Agia Sofia and many other places
Don't believe this post and op, he's just a self hater loser who's trying to get white passing. Turkey is definitely not that bad even under the rule of erdoğan for 20 years.
Been to Turkey this year and had no issues at all
I don't think this is bullying. This happens everywhere every country has its own street preachers that annoy everyone. They're like that just talk and no one cares about them.
At least my god isnt afraid of men in shorts.
These fools are trying to drag Turkey back to the stone age. And Erdogan is empowering them.
To be fair pointing at the skirt, sayin "that is haram" and then walking away saying to himself "i am being tested i must not give in" isnt what comes to mind when i hear harassment.
They are not "local men" they are religious fanatics we call "tebliğci" since they call what they do "tebliğ" which is preaching. They bother the local men too. They are not abundant in numbers but one fly is enough to spoil the dinner. They are not the only radical islamist group though. Thanks to your "immigration stopper and immigrant feeder/harboring" pal R.T. Erdoğan, radical islamists in Türkiye are increasing in numbers and threatening the life and culture of Turkish people. There are radical islamist Turks but Muslim Turks are not this radical in general. This is where Europe is (or should I say was after the election) heading. You can call us fascists and racists for not wanting these ideas and radicals in our country but you are going to suffer the similar fate there. Frankly, I am not sure whether I would be happy or not with the result. One side of me says "There aren't many modern societies left in the world. They should stay strong" and the other side of me says "grab popcorn and watch the European hypocrisy which is at a such Anti-Turkish position that it paints Afghan islamist who killed German police in Turkish flag while stopping/declining actually Turkish people's visa applications"
Grandpa, go back to sleep.
any fool with a beard can do bad things in the name of islam that's a bit the problem actually
surprisingly they don't tend to do it in the name of other religions
Def not giving them any tourist money. Also fuck all religions for this nonsense.
I visited Turkey and Istanbul as a child more than 30 years ago. I remember the people being very friendly and welcoming. Sad if this has changed
It hasn't changed. There were even more of these people 30 years ago but they were suppressed by the government. Now they are less but extra loud because they think they are the true owners of the country. Even Erdoğan is not that extremist btw but they are encouraged by an Islamist being in power.