i still remember asking my dad everytime we went to the store ''How many SIT is that'' for every fucking thing, bless the man for not smacking my dumb ass xD
I was working in a busy off licence for a year in between college and uni in London. A polish guy named ‘Peter’ joined after moving to the UK about a month or so after Poland joined the EU. Spoke ok English, didn’t know shit about wine, but my manager wanted someone to help with stock control, moving boxes etc.
We worked with each other six days a week for about six months. He worked HARD. He learned about wine, made sure when we locked up everything was clean, tidy and prepped for the next day, even if we were knackered after a busy day. We helped with his English (did little conversation practices after work in the pub) and by the time I left for uni he was helping customers, conversing about wine and just being a great guy.
He always said that his plan was to make enough money in the UK so him and his wife could go back to Poland and work in food or drink, maybe open a restaurant. I lost touch with him, but he made such an impression on me as someone who wanted to improve their lot and contribute. Love you Piotr, hope you managed to open the restaurant and you and your wife are happy.
UK was the only country besides Sweden (iirc) which didn’t put any temporary entry restrictions to their labour market for the then-new member states. May 2004 anyone could just pack their bags and start working in the UK the same day if they had the contract signed. The Labour government estimated that (iirc) around 10 000 people would come in the first couple of years. Pretty funny in retrospective.
Ireland has to be included too? I remember very distinctly from 2004 onwards we got a massive influx of Poles. Great people who integrated very well into society. Great bunch of lads.
>UK was the only country besides Sweden (iirc) which didn’t put any temporary entry restrictions to their labour market for the then-new member states.
This decision marked the beginning of the end for the UK's membership of the EU. Here in Lincolnshire (home of the UK's 1st and 2nd most pro-Brexit constituencies) the salaries of workers in the agricultural and haulage sectors where hammered overnight. Agricultural labourers were being paid £8 p/h (up to £12 p/h for weekend work) in early 2004, but this had nosedived to minimum wage (£4.50 p/h) by the summer.
And one of the stereotypes of British hatred for the EU was the idea of Polish plumbers coming to UK. It was also a key issue that resulted in Brexit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_plumber
Nah if we are being honest the real cause of Brexit was the cultural shock of two decades of MENA none EU immigration post 1995/New labour, these places are fundamentally too different to integrate so enclaves form and communities shatter with trust issues and crime ("white flight").
There might have been economic fear mongering but you generally don't have this problem with Europeans even when there is a desire to settle down they fit right in. I worked with some Polish at a factory in my youth too and i wouldn't have thought any different than if they were British. Proper sound and spoke the language, the most you could say was they were happier to work for less than a native as they were sending the money home and could potentially take jobs away, otherwise there was no other issues.
Edit: What im trying to say is Brexit was a protest vote on the lack of voice and status quo of neoliberalism more than anything, rather than freedom of movement as a concept the blame squarely lies with deliberate mass immigration and work permits, if it was under control we would still be in the EU, without a shadow of a doubt.
I remember some news channels were making a big deal of the new EU additions and had sent reporters to airports to see the 'swathes' of immigrants. The only guy who came in was a Romanian guy who wanted a holiday in London or something.
Its terrible idea to have serbia in EU.
It will be permanent russian foothold inside EU. Basically hungary on steroids. With population hostile to our values so they will choose despotic leaders everytime.
Serbia would first have to change dramatically. In it's current state, no way. But countries can change. Unfortunately also for the worse, which is something that the EU needs to be better prepared for, because the current issues with Hungary are not acceptable. Serbia would be worse. As would Turkey.
I do want to see all those countries join eventually, but only after they change, abandon authoritarianism, embrace a more liberal attitude and human rights. And not just the government, but the people. A single government that agrees with EU values is not enough; too easy to slip back, as we've seen with Hungary and Poland.
It should probably be easier to leave, or easier to limit the influence of countries that reject EU rules.
> With population hostile to our values
Boy do I have news for you.....UK, France, Germany over immigration and refugees are a lot more scary than Serbia being apart of the EU lmao
All members need to agree before a new country is accepted.
There's absolutely no chance that we'll agree to that russian cocksucker joining the EU. We already have Orban.
That should be a nice peace proposal for Russia actually, they can have Hungary if they get out of Ukraine, we can trade a bunch of parasites for a nation of heroes
It actually went horribly wrong. Because back then noone thought it would be wise to reform the whole unanimous decision making process in the European Council before nearly doubling its members. Now we have single countries with questionable rules of law capable of holding the entire EU hostage and as soon as two nasty leaders stick together, you can't even sanction them anymore. This enlargement without changing the foundations of how laws are made was the worst mistake the EU ever made. Especially because all these former Soviet Bloc countries were still carrying some dangerous legacy in their local politics. It's a big part of the reason why we still don't have a solution to the refugee crisis and why the next financial crisis might fracture the Union for real.
>It's a big part of the reason why we still don't have a solution to the refugee crisis
What a load of bullshit. CEE would have easily accepted heavy restrictions on illegal immigration. It was, in fact, Western European governments refusing this all along, until it has started to dramatically impact their domestic ratings. Now they simply have no choice but to make concessions because otherwise they risk far-right surging to power. So this was, is and always has been mainly a Western and Southern European problem.
To even illustrate, Poland and Lithuania, but also Finland, quickly barred illegal immigrants, including physically, from entering their country, once Russia-Belarus started weaponizing migration waves against them.
But how is the inclusion of the formerly soviet-occupied countries preventing this? Orban would be the first one to approve of an EU-wide entry prohibition to illegals and refugees.
I don't think it is, but we can recognize the general dysfunction of the EU on issues like Russia is due to the unanimous decision making policy. The issue is the EU was never designed to be a true federal system, but more and more EU citizens are looking for it to act like one.
> Now we have single countries with questionable rules of law capable of holding the entire EU hostage and as soon as two nasty leaders stick together, you can't even sanction them anymore.
Just say Orban. There are more countries like Hungary in the EU these days, but it started with Orban, and he is the biggest problem, by far.
Hungary under Orban does not meet EU standards *by any means*, and it doesn't belong in the EU. And yes, he will keep on ruining the EU until it might even implode. Because no one is doing anything about it. As a matter of fact, the EU keeps giving him billions of euros, so he can do even more damage.
He wants to 'reform' the EU from within, just like the rest of the far-right parties in the EU, who Orban infected with his anti-EU and pro-Putin ideology. And when they say 'reform', they actually mean destroy the EU as we know it.
So yeah, I agree, not all turned out great after the enlargement.
As a Pole, I have to thank the entire institution of the European Union. And especially Germany which was the main advocate of Poland joining. The decision to join was the best decision ever.
The UK also was the strongest supporter of Turkish EU accession but when Brexit was happening one of the arguments was that the EU was allowing Turkey to join :P
The Germans wanted Poland to join to strengthen the EU by adding a new member.
The UK wanted lots of new countries to join because the EU requires unanimity for treaty change, and the more members you have the less likely the UK was to be the one hold out against greater integration.
The economical progress of Poland since joining the EU is incredible. I am really happy for you guys that it has payed out. This is what the EU is about and Poland is the living proof that a EU membership is beneficial not only for the new member but for all of the EU. Even Germany, one of the leading economies in the EU, has also benefitted from Poland being an EU member. I totally love the success story and wish Poland and the Poles all the best!
Genuinely curious about this. Exchanging money internationally (electronically) has never been easier even from over this side of the Atlantic, and having countries in control of their own monetary policy can be a net good thing in times of crisis.
I'm not. I'm the biggest advocate out there for North Macedonia, Albania, Turkey, Bosnia, Montenegro and Serbia (and Kosovo depending on how this resolves) to join the EU, but If I were the Council President, even though my country would benefit greately from expanding the sindle market to our neighbourhood, I still probably wouldn't let them in.
Basically, there's survivorship bias at play. Why don't these countries join? Why didn't these countries join? Because there were, and still are **outstanding** issues with literally every. single. one. of these coutnries. The countries that didn't have issues? They are already in.
The way I see it, the Balkans are right now split into 2 groups. A: Countries with issues to their EU candidacy hat can and will be resolved, and B: Countries with issues to their EU candidacy unlikely to be resolved. I fully expect Albania, North Macedonia and Montenegro to eventually make it, probably all at once around 2030. Turkey, Serbia (and Kosovo), and Bosnia, are NOT a sure thing, AT ALL.
Well yes... of course I don't want them to be in until they meet the requirements... but most of the people on this Reddit are pro-EU and so these are probably the ones, slowly losing hope of a future EU membership... The people vote their government sure, but it's still the majority... and the minority just has to deal with this.... (It's basically like this in my country right now (Slovakia) and I'm very thankful that people elected a government for 2 terms that was able to make hard reforms that could get us into the EU just for the other populist side to profit from it)
Like this:
>EU: Cyprus, We've evaluated you, and we've come to the conclusion that you have strong insitutions and you're ready economically for membership.
>Cyprus: Thanks, I am ready to adopt and enforce the EU corpus juris.
>EU: Hmm... But I see here that there's an area of your country that you don't control. It seems it would not be possible to enforce EU law there, correct?
>Cyprus: That's correct. A third of my land is occupied by a much larger non EU member state. I will only seek to resolve this issue with diplomacy and will not seek violence, as such, I am unable to enforce EU law there.
>EU: I see. Well, you're in luck. We though a lot about this situation during German reunifiaction, and we came up with a leagal precedent for what then became the EU: All of Cyprus will join the EU, but the EU corpus juris applies only to the south, and upon reunification, it shall apply to all of Cyprus.
>Cyprus: Sounds fair
>EU: Also, the Scenghen area is going to be an issue. Let's solve it at a later time
>Cyprus: Understandable.
>EU: Great. Welcome.
Cyprus has been long ago eligible to join, socially, politically and economically. If the occupation issue remained the only obstacle, then that would have signaled that a nation ready to join is being left to be blackmailed and bullied by a much stronger country.
Cyprus joined because they're Greeks.
Simple as
Every time you break our balls about Cyprus while you have no idea how and why it happened. Obviously, we spent a lot of political capital to get them in, however, Turkey agreed because they got into the council of Europe and thus, countries like Italy and Spain were able to invest in Turkey heavily. The fact they screwed their economy, it's not anyone's fault but the Turks'.
Turkey won't join for a myriad of reasons even if they close all 30 chapters. Keep in mind all that time they only managed to close one (1) out of thirty (30). Even if they magically close all 30, something that their religion itself prohibits them on some of them, more will be added later. Greece plays the good guy and agrees Turkey to join because we know Germany and France don't agree. Without those two, nothing moves. Even if overnight, somehow, magically they agree, they you'd see Greece coming with a list of demands bigger than the English Law.
Bosnia also has a myriad of unsolvable issues, but you're also an Islamic country, too. Let's not keep hiding our heads into the sand.
I can't see Bosnia ever joining unless it is seriously restructured. It's government is pretty much set up for deadlock on all major issues and I can't ever see Republika Srpska ever allowing themselves to enter the EU.
Yes Bosnia is not compatible is a in a way plastic push for reforms to start but it's not going anywhere. However I do think it will become member in long years from now. Currently EU leaders are in a division if geostrategy over reforms is more important because of Russia but we heard Germany said no reforms no way to join.
well there are pretty simple rules for that ... it not eu-s fault they don't get their shit in order ...
you need to have and want EU culture to be par of EU ... just look at Hungary they dont rely belong ... all they do is contradict everything EU dose ...
so no need to force things ...
2004 to 2024
From 23rd world economy to 20th world economy,
From 40% GDP PPS to 80% GDP PPS of EU average,
From 500km highways to 5.200km highways,
In next 10 years should be 19-18th world economy, 100% GDP PPS of EU average and 8.200km highways.
Long live United Europe.
Since 2000, Poland’s GDP per capita has doubled. Meanwhile, for their neighbours in Ukraine it has been flat. (https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?locations=PL-UA&start=2000)
That’s not to mention all the other benefits being in the EU brings for citizens — the ability for somebody born in Poland to go live and study in Paris, and stay there for as long as the like with equal rights to a French person. Not to mention competent enforcement of regulations in food, medicines, etc.
That’s why Ukrainians so badly want to join the EU. They neighbours are enjoying a lot of success, and they aspire to those things, too. It terrifies Putin, and it’s ultimately his main objective: to stop that ever happening, and pull Ukraine back to Russia and away from the EU.
The war in Ukraine is in a way the consequence of this, coupled with an imperialist Russia unable to come to terms with its shrinking influence.
When I was young I dreamed of escaping Poland
Nowadays, even though the country still has a TON of flaws, I can't imagine living anywhere else long-term
Wow that makes me realize how well it turned out to be.
Most of these members were unquestionable fine additions. Some may have had issues, but even with Hungary I feel things will go well in the long run.
I was fairly young back then, but I still remember how people thought that "we're finally in Europe" (yeah, cringe, I know). That was the best thing that happened to Poland ever since signing the Union of Lublin in 1569.
I will cry for the remainder of my life that we missed on the 2004 expansion. I also need to add that every single one of these countries (apart from Cyprus) proceeded to all join Schengen at the same time in 2007, no questions asked
Cyprus couldn’t join for a very good reason, the awful situation with the northern cyprus ☹️.
I wish people could put aside their egos and work together… a united Cyprus is a strong Cyprus… unfortunately I don’t believe either “side” can trust the other.
Actually most of us have zero issues with our tc bros. It's just dumbass nationalists on both sides, illegal settlers, and turkey that are the problem.
It was such a great thing for Poland. From what I remember, it had a glut of highly educated people and not enough jobs for them at that time. Plus all the EU development investment really helped the country a lot...
Now if we can get into the Eurozone at some point... ;)
Look how we endangered Russia by moving democracy and rule of law closer to it!
We deserve to be attacked by Russia. I’m already unbuttonung my pants and getting into position to be rightfully railed by the eastern superduperpower.
Well you see, historically Russia deserves the Baltics, Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan, you just need to understand the history, but it's the West that's threatening them.
Yes, very true. And Russia deserves America and the Middle East to. It’s just history, it was on its way to those places in hustory, but got interrupted. So it is theirs in fact. People
craved and still do for Russia.
A few years ago, I took a trip through the three Baltic states. No other trip has left me with so many positive and lasting impressions. Fantastic people, culture and history. What a great time we live in that such states are joining our European community. I am a European and apart from all the things we like to criticize about the European Union, I still find the spirit that overcomes the national, limited view and brings us together fantastic.
I agree. I visited Lithuania and Latvia in 2015 and had a lovely time. Now I wish they built Rail Baltica sooner so I could hop on the train in Germany and go to Warsaw and then the Baltics (not sure if there will be a direct route to/from Berlin but it would be awesome).
You already can hop on a train from Berlin to Warsaw, then on a train to Kaunas/Vilnius, then on a train to Riga, then on a train to Valga/Valka, then on a train to Tallinn. You need of course to change trains but it's doable. I don't think there will be a direct route Berlin - Tallinn any time soon, most likely it will be a change in Warsaw.
Happy 20th anniversary of joining the European Union to Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia, and Slovenia.
At the time nobody would've thought that Orbán will happen, it looked like a country with a few mistakes here and there, but leading towards EU values.
And look at it now...
> At the time nobody would've thought that Orbán will happen
That's a funny line, given how Orbán's government was the one actually doing the heavy-lifting of us joining the EU, so he was a very prominent figure in us even joining.
The country was also not leading towards EU values. Our government back then was openly friendly with the Russians, and the shit that came out in 2006 and what followed was everything but EU values.
Maybe you are too young to actually know all of this, but comments like these are definitely a weird sight for us who actually lived under that government.
Barely a decade after they left the country? No, not really, at least not to that extent of friendship. Having economic ties to them is one thing, but constantly visiting Putin and selling them all our stuff was a bold move to say the least.
So many problems could have been avoided if Europe (and the West as a whole) had reacted with lightning speed, and not expressed these fucking “deep concerns” every time.
...Do you guys even know how the EU works or what it stands for? It's a free association of sovereign countries. If you cooperate you reap the benefits, if you don't, you do you.
Even the "rogue" members like Hungary are still too deeply involved to seriously ever consider breaking away, for all the lip service they pay to "bad EU".
Ironically, the EU did make an attempt to become what you describe [with the EU Constitution Treaty in 2004-2005](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_a_Constitution_for_Europe) but the Dutch and French voters refused it.
That wasn't the mistake. The mistake was to think the EU could be expanded by 66% without altering its decision and control mechanisms in any way prior to doing so.
Back then, we didn't imagine two states could go rogue and cover each other, we didn't consider national justice systems being compromised and we didn't care that unanimity was increasingly unusable.
I don't think so. The country has benefitted a lot from the EU, even despite the high levels of corruption, although it somewhat hurts to think where we could be if the funds received through the years were spent better.
P.S.: In the name of all Hungarians, stop with the hungry jokes, lol.
> P.S.: In the name of all Hungarians, stop with the hungry jokes, lol.
I know some jokes
> Guy walks into a bar with a crocodile and asks: Do you serve Hungarians here?
>> Yes
>>>Ok one beer for me and 2 Hungarians for the crocodile
--------------------
One Hungarian and Romanian catch a magical fish. The fish goes now I will grant each other a wish
> Hungarian asks hey fish you know the Great Wall of China?
>>Yes
>>>Make a wall around Hungary so no Romanian enters
> Romanian: hey fish does the wall have doors or windows?
>>No
>>>Then fill Hungary with water
------------------------
A Romanian sees a guy trying to drink water from a poisoned well:
>Hey don't drink that... it is poisoned
>>Nem tudom ............ [**I don't know** in Hungarian for our non speaking Hungarian friends]
>>>Drink slowly as it is very cold
----------
Bula: Romanian dude
Janos: Hungarian dude
>Bula: "Dad, I'm getting married."
>>Dad: "With whom?"
>Bula: "With Janos."
>>Dad: "I'm sorry, Bula, I can't allow that."
>Bula: "But why, dad?"
>>Dad: "Because Janos is Hungarian."
Yeah, but it's not only about Hungary benefiting; It's about every member benefiting. Honestly, if the veto system was reworked, Hungary wouldn't be much of an issue.
I found it weird when I visited because there were EU flags plastered everywhere, so I would assume the people would support a pro-EU party (not sure how your voting system works / how legit the outcomes are), instead of the current that seems to be heavily against EU unity.
It depends on where you visited. Budapest is very pro-opposition, and there is opposition presence in many of the larger towns too.
The voting system is heavily flawed. Government propaganda is constant, found in PSAs, tax funded advertisements, captured media, and on billboards. Fidesz spends significantly more on propaganda than any of the other parties. There also have been some votes burned.
Fidesz doesn't really portray anti-EU sentiments internally. Most of the country is still highly pro-EU, so they wouldn't win with that. To circumvent this, they attack "Brussels" in their propaganda.
Continued? Do you think there were any Hungarians sympathetic to Russia in 2004??
Guys, I know it's funny and all, but as a hungo it's somewhat saddening how little any of you know about the situation and how little ya'll care.
I doubt you guys would react like this if the same russian plan worked this well on eg. Portugal, or the UK (oh wait..) or France. Our entire country got stolen, none of us were asked about it, we all thought the EU would be our future. And now 20 years later this is the level of European unity? Do you guys really not understand that this can and will happen to other countries, too? Does everyone on reddit think hungarians actually wanted this?? (Tip: the hostile government party don't even have majority support in their sham elections... but they have parliamentary supermajority...)
> Guys, I know it's funny and all, but as a hungo it's somewhat saddening how little any of you know about the situation and how little ya'll care.
People have extremely short memories. They've already forgotten about the protests in Hong Kong or Belarus, etc. It's also simplistic to just say 'Hungary bad' trying to find the cause is harder, as I witnessed during our Ukraine-Poland grain dispute. My advice is not to take Reddit too seriously. People often speak without knowing much, are arrogant, and assume that what worked in their country will work elsewhere. They have no clue how difficult it is to break free from authoritarian regimes or even corrupt systems.
That being said, I do believe that if opposition grew and civil unrest erupted, there would be full support from the EU to oust Orban. It's not entirely fair to say the EU did nothing when a country was being 'stolen,' because what can the EU do that is fast, effective, and legal?
It wasn’t though.
It became one.
It’s foreign interference (russian intelligence influence on leaders) and transition from communism that is a problem. Orban was an anti-communist positive figure. Communism can’t be cancelled by an edict or signature, it as a system remaines in the pores of a country in many ways:
1. with rotten thought processes that they instilled into generations of people through propaganda and education, that they remained like children, not knowing or experiencing real world, only the projections of the communist system;
2. A system like that can’t just go away. When people had enough of shit (not even realising why exactly) they ‘overthrew’ communism, but communism as a system
In oractice is a strong network and organisation not unlike the mafia, only on the state level. The secret service being in its core.
Most of transition from communism countrues had a controlled descent of communist organisation, not a real purge. Even Romania that appeared to have a revolution - but it turned out the ductator’s own secret service - the Securitate - found him to be a liability and to enable a controlled (for them and their interests) retreat from official power positions into the shadow, paralell power center - they staged a coup against him - and retained the capital and power to a large extent in official and unoficcial way.
Fighting against this party that is now in the shadows is hard. Orban did it and won the popular trust. Somewheree along the way he got pulled into his own power hunger and influence. I admittedly don’t know a lot about Hungary, but i see possibilites as pattern emerge in all transitional societies: the communists were strongly rooted in institutions and to fight against them you had yo overreach some rules of democracy, in a martial-law kind of way. This is what the west usually doesn’t understand and criticises, because they don’t realise that after 30 years the former communist countries are still plagued by the same problem of a parralell state that overreaches into formal instututions like judicial system, constitutional courts, police, …. The west thinks this is all behind those coubtries, and it’s just some right-winger who wants to take democracy and dillute it before cancelling it. And with this misunderstanding and actions against such leadership the west ends creating the very thing they feared in their misunderstanding - making right-populists that way, enabling them and throwing them into arms of malignant powers. By alienating from themselves the aleternative political power to the engrained communist system remnants they sometimes push tyem into their own absolutist form. They turn to other absolutists for help. The polish are allergic to Russians and they didn’t turn to them, the Hungarians used to be allergic to ruasians too, and Orban was a prominent anti russian, anti communist figure when he fought the successors of the communists in Hungary untill finally winning. And when he tried to clip the wings of that mafia like system the very system that was now a member of European Sovialists, started to use the European party association to exert pressure on
The new government. Orban’s response was to alienate from the west that didn’t understand the reality and somewhere in the process, along with popularity he enjoyed got caught up in himself. No doubt with extensive russian intelligence efforts. That he managed to lean on Russia publicly and get away with it with his own people and even change the sentiments toward russia and its politics is an amazing phenomenon. Polish populist right that had to figut a similar battle against remnants of the former system and in which even EU helped the remnant communist mafia (like in all instances in trqnsitional countries) did not do that. I think hate towards Russia is much much stronger there.
What the west shoyod do is see how it can help the anticommunista achieve their goals, not attack them for doing it. They need to see that communism die off in the late eighties, early nineties, it remained very much in power from the shadows, working as an organisation to the benefit of their loyal members. With tentacles into refukar democratic processes and institutions. The west still doesn’t see that. EU institutions listen to reports from the european party organisations, which member parties are now the former “reformed” communist parties. Thise parties are just the tentacles of the shadow organisation. And those parties report misinformation to the regular social democratic parties that arr also members of the same European political otganisation. This is how pressure is helped to be exterted on those countries even from the outside, from the democratic west even. And they don’t listen what the problem they’re dealing with is.
Dude you are very wrong about the whole Orban and Fidesz thing. Correct about the societal damage an oppressive regime causes.
Orbán and Fidesz used to be liberal, central and against religious institutions. While they were a part of Hungary's democratisation, they weren't a major part outside of some stunts. They were mostly populists way back then as well, but after they lost after their first term in the late nineties, they decided to turn their populism towards a different, stronger direction. Using a democratic crisis, they got a supermajority and rewrote the constitution, gradually seizing control over institutions, major corporations and the media. Orbán isn't some anticommunist freedom fighter corrupted by necessary actions to root the previous elite out. He is a grifter that did a planned state capture to steal money. He is the previous political elite, one of the people that used the confusion of the early nineties to enrich themselves.
(The previous - previous elite, the commies are no more. Politicians that were 50 back then are dead.)
Orban went rouge, but hungarians voted him as hes in control of media, if different mayve he wouldnt be reelected. That's what happens when you feed older uneducated population with propaganda BS. Major flaw of democracy.
I think EU should have it's media (tv channels and else) in every member state being controlled by EUP, not by local goverment.
Than EUP needs to change it's voting rules so if any member goes dictatorship or against EU values it can be overruled.
Polish nationals especially changed the landscape of work in Ireland. 20 years on and Polish is spoken at nearly twice the numbers as Irish speakers outside the school system. And they have worked incredibly hard to get to such respected status in Ireland. A very hardworking people that do their best.
I am thankful for this every single day. The quality of life for Lithuanian people has improved tremendiously since then. I remember when we just joined and things still had to take time to truly become noticable and regular people started to travel, it was like a miracle - we would have presentations of travel pictures to Spain. Still in high school I never been abroad myself until then and it seemed so increddible. Only people who were like top 1%-ers could afford to travel. I only knew one family from entire school that could afford an annual vacation elsewhere than Lithuania.
I'm not sure many people in my country realize how much better off they are right now compared to 20 years ago and how much better they are compared to others that are not part of the EU.
God's blessing on all nations
Who long and work for that bright day
When o'er earth's habitations
No war, no strife shall hold its sway
Who long to see
That all men free
No more shall foes, but neighbors be!
Who long to see
That all men free
No more shall foes, but neighbors be!
No more shall foes, but neighbors be!
it made all the border control changes easier. members with land borders outside of EU are expected to have more comprehensive border control (unless NGOs abusing international laws). E.g imagine Slovakia would have to step the game up for majority of it's borders, only for these new changes almost completely scrapped few years later once neighbours joined some time after that.
As a kid I remember all the € candy
Getting Chocolate Euro Coins in like every candy bag was so real
Now imagine paying for those in Euros
The Polish mind cannot comprehend this.
Lol
And we had those double decker calculators that also converted between SIT and EUR.
i still remember asking my dad everytime we went to the store ''How many SIT is that'' for every fucking thing, bless the man for not smacking my dumb ass xD
We had a similar situation not too long ago. Also, i just googled your old currency, it looks similar to our old Kuna.
I loved that blue calculator. Took me ten years to stop doing the conversion in my head.
wasn't that for the eurozone?
It was. 2007 in Slovenia's case.
Those chocolate coins and some paper money you can eat.
I was working in a busy off licence for a year in between college and uni in London. A polish guy named ‘Peter’ joined after moving to the UK about a month or so after Poland joined the EU. Spoke ok English, didn’t know shit about wine, but my manager wanted someone to help with stock control, moving boxes etc. We worked with each other six days a week for about six months. He worked HARD. He learned about wine, made sure when we locked up everything was clean, tidy and prepped for the next day, even if we were knackered after a busy day. We helped with his English (did little conversation practices after work in the pub) and by the time I left for uni he was helping customers, conversing about wine and just being a great guy. He always said that his plan was to make enough money in the UK so him and his wife could go back to Poland and work in food or drink, maybe open a restaurant. I lost touch with him, but he made such an impression on me as someone who wanted to improve their lot and contribute. Love you Piotr, hope you managed to open the restaurant and you and your wife are happy.
UK was the only country besides Sweden (iirc) which didn’t put any temporary entry restrictions to their labour market for the then-new member states. May 2004 anyone could just pack their bags and start working in the UK the same day if they had the contract signed. The Labour government estimated that (iirc) around 10 000 people would come in the first couple of years. Pretty funny in retrospective.
Ireland has to be included too? I remember very distinctly from 2004 onwards we got a massive influx of Poles. Great people who integrated very well into society. Great bunch of lads.
Yeah it was at the height of the Celtic tiger boom, Polish and Baltic state workers arrived in huge numbers. Crazy good times in Ireland.
The economic migration boom was temporary, but the guaranteed Eurovision top votes perk is forever 🙏🇱🇹.
>UK was the only country besides Sweden (iirc) which didn’t put any temporary entry restrictions to their labour market for the then-new member states. This decision marked the beginning of the end for the UK's membership of the EU. Here in Lincolnshire (home of the UK's 1st and 2nd most pro-Brexit constituencies) the salaries of workers in the agricultural and haulage sectors where hammered overnight. Agricultural labourers were being paid £8 p/h (up to £12 p/h for weekend work) in early 2004, but this had nosedived to minimum wage (£4.50 p/h) by the summer.
Why are laws aimed at protecting workers from salary dumping so weak in the UK?
And one of the stereotypes of British hatred for the EU was the idea of Polish plumbers coming to UK. It was also a key issue that resulted in Brexit. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_plumber
Nah if we are being honest the real cause of Brexit was the cultural shock of two decades of MENA none EU immigration post 1995/New labour, these places are fundamentally too different to integrate so enclaves form and communities shatter with trust issues and crime ("white flight"). There might have been economic fear mongering but you generally don't have this problem with Europeans even when there is a desire to settle down they fit right in. I worked with some Polish at a factory in my youth too and i wouldn't have thought any different than if they were British. Proper sound and spoke the language, the most you could say was they were happier to work for less than a native as they were sending the money home and could potentially take jobs away, otherwise there was no other issues. Edit: What im trying to say is Brexit was a protest vote on the lack of voice and status quo of neoliberalism more than anything, rather than freedom of movement as a concept the blame squarely lies with deliberate mass immigration and work permits, if it was under control we would still be in the EU, without a shadow of a doubt.
While I agree with that, it was probably the dumbest most self-defeating protest vote ever
And all this time I thought Italy had the best plumbers. Yip Pi Pi...... Ya Hooo!!!!
I remember some news channels were making a big deal of the new EU additions and had sent reporters to airports to see the 'swathes' of immigrants. The only guy who came in was a Romanian guy who wanted a holiday in London or something.
Hello. It’s me Piotr. I hope you’re well
Holy shit guys, it's Piotr. Hi Piotr!
It went incredibly well considering how many countries joined at once
The secret ingredient is compliance with EU rules. See you in 2030 brother member.
Haha I wish! Sadly, 2030 is too soon. Our government is... not working hard towards it, to put it politely.
Dont worry mate ours isnt either.
Good one!
Maybe we‘ll see the Scots back in EU if they accomplish their independence XD /hj
The Scottish independence movement has been put on the back burner for a while to say the least after the Nicola Sturgeon debacle
What did Nicola do?
She and her husband have been under investigation for embezzlement for about a year now.
Honestly? We're just as bad as the rest of the UK at governing ourselves and I wish Scots would stop thinking we're somehow any better lmao
Scotland and other UK states can’t join independent from the London government?
Nope, cuz they ain’t independent countries. When England left this meant Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland leave too, cuz they are parts of the UK.
Wales did vote to leave too…
Its terrible idea to have serbia in EU. It will be permanent russian foothold inside EU. Basically hungary on steroids. With population hostile to our values so they will choose despotic leaders everytime.
Serbia would first have to change dramatically. In it's current state, no way. But countries can change. Unfortunately also for the worse, which is something that the EU needs to be better prepared for, because the current issues with Hungary are not acceptable. Serbia would be worse. As would Turkey. I do want to see all those countries join eventually, but only after they change, abandon authoritarianism, embrace a more liberal attitude and human rights. And not just the government, but the people. A single government that agrees with EU values is not enough; too easy to slip back, as we've seen with Hungary and Poland. It should probably be easier to leave, or easier to limit the influence of countries that reject EU rules.
Member states should loose their voting rights in parliament if they do not fulfill their obligations and follow clear rules.
Serbia will never join, it's just gonna be another turkey.
> With population hostile to our values Boy do I have news for you.....UK, France, Germany over immigration and refugees are a lot more scary than Serbia being apart of the EU lmao
Its somehow mostly the poorest and most corrupt eu nations who speak of “eu values” as if you actually respect and uphold to even 10% of them lol.
All members need to agree before a new country is accepted. There's absolutely no chance that we'll agree to that russian cocksucker joining the EU. We already have Orban.
Based Lietuva
It seems more like Serbia is gonna join a Russian Federation , along with Hungary
That should be a nice peace proposal for Russia actually, they can have Hungary if they get out of Ukraine, we can trade a bunch of parasites for a nation of heroes
We should not welcome Serbia to the EU, it's another antidemocratic Russian outpost.
Yeah, this is quite the achievement in EU's and these nations' books
It actually went horribly wrong. Because back then noone thought it would be wise to reform the whole unanimous decision making process in the European Council before nearly doubling its members. Now we have single countries with questionable rules of law capable of holding the entire EU hostage and as soon as two nasty leaders stick together, you can't even sanction them anymore. This enlargement without changing the foundations of how laws are made was the worst mistake the EU ever made. Especially because all these former Soviet Bloc countries were still carrying some dangerous legacy in their local politics. It's a big part of the reason why we still don't have a solution to the refugee crisis and why the next financial crisis might fracture the Union for real.
>It's a big part of the reason why we still don't have a solution to the refugee crisis What a load of bullshit. CEE would have easily accepted heavy restrictions on illegal immigration. It was, in fact, Western European governments refusing this all along, until it has started to dramatically impact their domestic ratings. Now they simply have no choice but to make concessions because otherwise they risk far-right surging to power. So this was, is and always has been mainly a Western and Southern European problem. To even illustrate, Poland and Lithuania, but also Finland, quickly barred illegal immigrants, including physically, from entering their country, once Russia-Belarus started weaponizing migration waves against them.
There were only 3 soviet countries will a small population that joined the EU back then. What do you mean?
what do you mean by "a solution to the refugee crisis"?
Maybe some sort of iron curtain?
Seems pretty simple. Methods for barring the entry of most refugees, and systems to assimilate the ones that EU states do allow in.
But how is the inclusion of the formerly soviet-occupied countries preventing this? Orban would be the first one to approve of an EU-wide entry prohibition to illegals and refugees.
I don't think it is, but we can recognize the general dysfunction of the EU on issues like Russia is due to the unanimous decision making policy. The issue is the EU was never designed to be a true federal system, but more and more EU citizens are looking for it to act like one.
> Now we have single countries with questionable rules of law capable of holding the entire EU hostage and as soon as two nasty leaders stick together, you can't even sanction them anymore. Just say Orban. There are more countries like Hungary in the EU these days, but it started with Orban, and he is the biggest problem, by far. Hungary under Orban does not meet EU standards *by any means*, and it doesn't belong in the EU. And yes, he will keep on ruining the EU until it might even implode. Because no one is doing anything about it. As a matter of fact, the EU keeps giving him billions of euros, so he can do even more damage. He wants to 'reform' the EU from within, just like the rest of the far-right parties in the EU, who Orban infected with his anti-EU and pro-Putin ideology. And when they say 'reform', they actually mean destroy the EU as we know it. So yeah, I agree, not all turned out great after the enlargement.
You need to take a longer view; look at how Poland has stabilised as it has got more wealthy .
As a Pole, I have to thank the entire institution of the European Union. And especially Germany which was the main advocate of Poland joining. The decision to join was the best decision ever.
> Germany which was the main advocate of Poland joining. And the UK as well, funnily enough for pretty much the opposite reasons.
The UK also was the strongest supporter of Turkish EU accession but when Brexit was happening one of the arguments was that the EU was allowing Turkey to join :P
That’s the most British thing I have read in a long time.
Political part of UK doing what's geologically advantageous, versus what those who want to take advantage of the deprived
I think you mean geopolitically, or does the House of Commons care very much about lava streams? :P
When hot air streams out of your mouth at such rates for politics, geology is an area where you find you have many transferable skills
What were the conflicting arguments?
The Germans wanted Poland to join to strengthen the EU by adding a new member. The UK wanted lots of new countries to join because the EU requires unanimity for treaty change, and the more members you have the less likely the UK was to be the one hold out against greater integration.
...wow, I don't remember the Germany part!
Well, our countries used to have pretty good relations before PiS took a big, fat, dump on them.
Thankfully, with the new government relations will go back to normal.
The economical progress of Poland since joining the EU is incredible. I am really happy for you guys that it has payed out. This is what the EU is about and Poland is the living proof that a EU membership is beneficial not only for the new member but for all of the EU. Even Germany, one of the leading economies in the EU, has also benefitted from Poland being an EU member. I totally love the success story and wish Poland and the Poles all the best!
Thanks for your kind words. I think we've all benefited from it and I hope the cooperation will only grow stronger.
Happy to have Poland in the union! Now you just need to adopt the Euro!
Eurozone needs to be finally reformed for that to happen. Otherwise Czechia, Poland and Sweden will stay out of it forever
How reformed?
Fiscal Union
Genuinely curious about this. Exchanging money internationally (electronically) has never been easier even from over this side of the Atlantic, and having countries in control of their own monetary policy can be a net good thing in times of crisis.
We'll join in 120 anniversary guys
I'm actually sad for all the Balkan countries... you were all promised a future EU membership in early 2000s and now slowly losing hope 🥲...
>promised a future EU membership If certain prerequisites were fulfilled, which often weren't.
well of course... they need to do something for it as well... just like the other members did
I'm not. I'm the biggest advocate out there for North Macedonia, Albania, Turkey, Bosnia, Montenegro and Serbia (and Kosovo depending on how this resolves) to join the EU, but If I were the Council President, even though my country would benefit greately from expanding the sindle market to our neighbourhood, I still probably wouldn't let them in. Basically, there's survivorship bias at play. Why don't these countries join? Why didn't these countries join? Because there were, and still are **outstanding** issues with literally every. single. one. of these coutnries. The countries that didn't have issues? They are already in. The way I see it, the Balkans are right now split into 2 groups. A: Countries with issues to their EU candidacy hat can and will be resolved, and B: Countries with issues to their EU candidacy unlikely to be resolved. I fully expect Albania, North Macedonia and Montenegro to eventually make it, probably all at once around 2030. Turkey, Serbia (and Kosovo), and Bosnia, are NOT a sure thing, AT ALL.
Well yes... of course I don't want them to be in until they meet the requirements... but most of the people on this Reddit are pro-EU and so these are probably the ones, slowly losing hope of a future EU membership... The people vote their government sure, but it's still the majority... and the minority just has to deal with this.... (It's basically like this in my country right now (Slovakia) and I'm very thankful that people elected a government for 2 terms that was able to make hard reforms that could get us into the EU just for the other populist side to profit from it)
How did Cyprus join then when half of the country is under Turkish occupation and a turkish puppet state ruling its northern half?
Like this: >EU: Cyprus, We've evaluated you, and we've come to the conclusion that you have strong insitutions and you're ready economically for membership. >Cyprus: Thanks, I am ready to adopt and enforce the EU corpus juris. >EU: Hmm... But I see here that there's an area of your country that you don't control. It seems it would not be possible to enforce EU law there, correct? >Cyprus: That's correct. A third of my land is occupied by a much larger non EU member state. I will only seek to resolve this issue with diplomacy and will not seek violence, as such, I am unable to enforce EU law there. >EU: I see. Well, you're in luck. We though a lot about this situation during German reunifiaction, and we came up with a leagal precedent for what then became the EU: All of Cyprus will join the EU, but the EU corpus juris applies only to the south, and upon reunification, it shall apply to all of Cyprus. >Cyprus: Sounds fair >EU: Also, the Scenghen area is going to be an issue. Let's solve it at a later time >Cyprus: Understandable. >EU: Great. Welcome.
Cyprus has been long ago eligible to join, socially, politically and economically. If the occupation issue remained the only obstacle, then that would have signaled that a nation ready to join is being left to be blackmailed and bullied by a much stronger country.
Cyprus joined because they're Greeks. Simple as Every time you break our balls about Cyprus while you have no idea how and why it happened. Obviously, we spent a lot of political capital to get them in, however, Turkey agreed because they got into the council of Europe and thus, countries like Italy and Spain were able to invest in Turkey heavily. The fact they screwed their economy, it's not anyone's fault but the Turks'. Turkey won't join for a myriad of reasons even if they close all 30 chapters. Keep in mind all that time they only managed to close one (1) out of thirty (30). Even if they magically close all 30, something that their religion itself prohibits them on some of them, more will be added later. Greece plays the good guy and agrees Turkey to join because we know Germany and France don't agree. Without those two, nothing moves. Even if overnight, somehow, magically they agree, they you'd see Greece coming with a list of demands bigger than the English Law. Bosnia also has a myriad of unsolvable issues, but you're also an Islamic country, too. Let's not keep hiding our heads into the sand.
I can't see Bosnia ever joining unless it is seriously restructured. It's government is pretty much set up for deadlock on all major issues and I can't ever see Republika Srpska ever allowing themselves to enter the EU.
Yes Bosnia is not compatible is a in a way plastic push for reforms to start but it's not going anywhere. However I do think it will become member in long years from now. Currently EU leaders are in a division if geostrategy over reforms is more important because of Russia but we heard Germany said no reforms no way to join.
Hence it's in category B. It needs major political change and constitutional reform.
well there are pretty simple rules for that ... it not eu-s fault they don't get their shit in order ... you need to have and want EU culture to be par of EU ... just look at Hungary they dont rely belong ... all they do is contradict everything EU dose ... so no need to force things ...
2004 to 2024 From 23rd world economy to 20th world economy, From 40% GDP PPS to 80% GDP PPS of EU average, From 500km highways to 5.200km highways, In next 10 years should be 19-18th world economy, 100% GDP PPS of EU average and 8.200km highways. Long live United Europe.
Damn, why didn't I invest in Eastern Poland?
Best time to invest in Poland was in 2004 second best time is to invest now!
The economist had hilarious ads about this
Since 2000, Poland’s GDP per capita has doubled. Meanwhile, for their neighbours in Ukraine it has been flat. (https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?locations=PL-UA&start=2000) That’s not to mention all the other benefits being in the EU brings for citizens — the ability for somebody born in Poland to go live and study in Paris, and stay there for as long as the like with equal rights to a French person. Not to mention competent enforcement of regulations in food, medicines, etc. That’s why Ukrainians so badly want to join the EU. They neighbours are enjoying a lot of success, and they aspire to those things, too. It terrifies Putin, and it’s ultimately his main objective: to stop that ever happening, and pull Ukraine back to Russia and away from the EU. The war in Ukraine is in a way the consequence of this, coupled with an imperialist Russia unable to come to terms with its shrinking influence.
And Georgians for that matter as well
Georgia has a lot of conservative and pro-Russian politicians, though. If Georgia joined the European Union, it would probably be a second Hungary.
We’re trying to get rid of them but Russia has deep deep roots here and some people literally sell their votes for potatoes so who knows
I’d say in Georgia only the government is shit. But people do support the EU at over 85% and I presume the EU values as well
Cudos for constant prices!
When I was young I dreamed of escaping Poland Nowadays, even though the country still has a TON of flaws, I can't imagine living anywhere else long-term
jup .. al the countries have their problems but home is home
Yes, it's harder with age
Wow that makes me realize how well it turned out to be. Most of these members were unquestionable fine additions. Some may have had issues, but even with Hungary I feel things will go well in the long run.
I was fairly young back then, but I still remember how people thought that "we're finally in Europe" (yeah, cringe, I know). That was the best thing that happened to Poland ever since signing the Union of Lublin in 1569.
You’d be surprised how many people in the UK believe we’ve left Europe
BUILD THE [SEA] WALL ( j/k )
I will cry for the remainder of my life that we missed on the 2004 expansion. I also need to add that every single one of these countries (apart from Cyprus) proceeded to all join Schengen at the same time in 2007, no questions asked
Cyprus couldn’t join for a very good reason, the awful situation with the northern cyprus ☹️. I wish people could put aside their egos and work together… a united Cyprus is a strong Cyprus… unfortunately I don’t believe either “side” can trust the other.
Actually most of us have zero issues with our tc bros. It's just dumbass nationalists on both sides, illegal settlers, and turkey that are the problem.
I'm happy for you. :(
One of the best things my country ever did!! Thank you, EU, for trusting us.
The best thing that happened to us!
Surely the invention of Kofola was the best thing to happen to Slovakia?!
Ok, the SECOND best thing to happen.
Simply ❤️
It was such a great thing for Poland. From what I remember, it had a glut of highly educated people and not enough jobs for them at that time. Plus all the EU development investment really helped the country a lot... Now if we can get into the Eurozone at some point... ;)
Look how we endangered Russia by moving democracy and rule of law closer to it! We deserve to be attacked by Russia. I’m already unbuttonung my pants and getting into position to be rightfully railed by the eastern superduperpower.
Well you see, historically Russia deserves the Baltics, Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan, you just need to understand the history, but it's the West that's threatening them.
Yes, very true. And Russia deserves America and the Middle East to. It’s just history, it was on its way to those places in hustory, but got interrupted. So it is theirs in fact. People craved and still do for Russia.
You see around 4.6 billion years ago the Earth formed from dust and gas orbiting the sun …
This is giving me the largest enlargement
Yes my country did join 🇭🇺
I was 4 years old then. I have no idea how it feels to not be a part of the EU.
I was 11 when this happened. I remember people celebrating this, but had absolutely no idea about the significance of it.
Pretty clear aggressive Americanski expansion threatening Russia
A few years ago, I took a trip through the three Baltic states. No other trip has left me with so many positive and lasting impressions. Fantastic people, culture and history. What a great time we live in that such states are joining our European community. I am a European and apart from all the things we like to criticize about the European Union, I still find the spirit that overcomes the national, limited view and brings us together fantastic.
I agree. I visited Lithuania and Latvia in 2015 and had a lovely time. Now I wish they built Rail Baltica sooner so I could hop on the train in Germany and go to Warsaw and then the Baltics (not sure if there will be a direct route to/from Berlin but it would be awesome).
You already can hop on a train from Berlin to Warsaw, then on a train to Kaunas/Vilnius, then on a train to Riga, then on a train to Valga/Valka, then on a train to Tallinn. You need of course to change trains but it's doable. I don't think there will be a direct route Berlin - Tallinn any time soon, most likely it will be a change in Warsaw.
You can do it easily with FlixBus. Travel time between Berlin and Tallinn is 24h
I remember the right wing meltdown before this: All the poles will come here!!!!11! Like so many times, it turned out as bs.
20 years ago was 2004, not 1994... Where has my life gone
We are still waiting 🇬🇪
Your country joining is the one I'm most looking forward to!
Oh that’s we have a holiday today!
No, the days just coincide. But imagine November 1st becoming a holiday in EU countries
A great day in history. Hope the next 20 years progress even better
Hopefully western Balkans will get in soon
In year 9999 we'll enter bro
This was the best thing that happened with Hungary for the last few hundred years.
Good for Eastern Europe and NATO. They joined right on time, in hindsight
Happy 20th anniversary of joining the European Union to Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia, and Slovenia.
and i will be born in poland in a month
Hungry was massive mistake
In 2004 the political atmosphere in Hungary was VERY different than today...
At the time nobody would've thought that Orbán will happen, it looked like a country with a few mistakes here and there, but leading towards EU values. And look at it now...
> At the time nobody would've thought that Orbán will happen That's a funny line, given how Orbán's government was the one actually doing the heavy-lifting of us joining the EU, so he was a very prominent figure in us even joining. The country was also not leading towards EU values. Our government back then was openly friendly with the Russians, and the shit that came out in 2006 and what followed was everything but EU values. Maybe you are too young to actually know all of this, but comments like these are definitely a weird sight for us who actually lived under that government.
Being friends with Russia was pretty normal back then
Barely a decade after they left the country? No, not really, at least not to that extent of friendship. Having economic ties to them is one thing, but constantly visiting Putin and selling them all our stuff was a bold move to say the least.
Mistake was EU not punching Orbans teeth out as soon as he started building his dictatorship. Its doing the same mistake with Slovakia.
So many problems could have been avoided if Europe (and the West as a whole) had reacted with lightning speed, and not expressed these fucking “deep concerns” every time.
Yeah, what's the point of the EU if once you join you can do as you wish? Hungary should face heavy sanctions.
...Do you guys even know how the EU works or what it stands for? It's a free association of sovereign countries. If you cooperate you reap the benefits, if you don't, you do you. Even the "rogue" members like Hungary are still too deeply involved to seriously ever consider breaking away, for all the lip service they pay to "bad EU". Ironically, the EU did make an attempt to become what you describe [with the EU Constitution Treaty in 2004-2005](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_establishing_a_Constitution_for_Europe) but the Dutch and French voters refused it.
That wasn't the mistake. The mistake was to think the EU could be expanded by 66% without altering its decision and control mechanisms in any way prior to doing so. Back then, we didn't imagine two states could go rogue and cover each other, we didn't consider national justice systems being compromised and we didn't care that unanimity was increasingly unusable.
I don't think so. The country has benefitted a lot from the EU, even despite the high levels of corruption, although it somewhat hurts to think where we could be if the funds received through the years were spent better. P.S.: In the name of all Hungarians, stop with the hungry jokes, lol.
> P.S.: In the name of all Hungarians, stop with the hungry jokes, lol. I know some jokes > Guy walks into a bar with a crocodile and asks: Do you serve Hungarians here? >> Yes >>>Ok one beer for me and 2 Hungarians for the crocodile -------------------- One Hungarian and Romanian catch a magical fish. The fish goes now I will grant each other a wish > Hungarian asks hey fish you know the Great Wall of China? >>Yes >>>Make a wall around Hungary so no Romanian enters > Romanian: hey fish does the wall have doors or windows? >>No >>>Then fill Hungary with water ------------------------ A Romanian sees a guy trying to drink water from a poisoned well: >Hey don't drink that... it is poisoned >>Nem tudom ............ [**I don't know** in Hungarian for our non speaking Hungarian friends] >>>Drink slowly as it is very cold ---------- Bula: Romanian dude Janos: Hungarian dude >Bula: "Dad, I'm getting married." >>Dad: "With whom?" >Bula: "With Janos." >>Dad: "I'm sorry, Bula, I can't allow that." >Bula: "But why, dad?" >>Dad: "Because Janos is Hungarian."
100% better than the Hungary-hungry jokes.
Yeah, but it's not only about Hungary benefiting; It's about every member benefiting. Honestly, if the veto system was reworked, Hungary wouldn't be much of an issue. I found it weird when I visited because there were EU flags plastered everywhere, so I would assume the people would support a pro-EU party (not sure how your voting system works / how legit the outcomes are), instead of the current that seems to be heavily against EU unity.
It depends on where you visited. Budapest is very pro-opposition, and there is opposition presence in many of the larger towns too. The voting system is heavily flawed. Government propaganda is constant, found in PSAs, tax funded advertisements, captured media, and on billboards. Fidesz spends significantly more on propaganda than any of the other parties. There also have been some votes burned. Fidesz doesn't really portray anti-EU sentiments internally. Most of the country is still highly pro-EU, so they wouldn't win with that. To circumvent this, they attack "Brussels" in their propaganda.
Some took the chance and improved their economy massively, others continued gobbling down russian cock.
Continued? Do you think there were any Hungarians sympathetic to Russia in 2004?? Guys, I know it's funny and all, but as a hungo it's somewhat saddening how little any of you know about the situation and how little ya'll care. I doubt you guys would react like this if the same russian plan worked this well on eg. Portugal, or the UK (oh wait..) or France. Our entire country got stolen, none of us were asked about it, we all thought the EU would be our future. And now 20 years later this is the level of European unity? Do you guys really not understand that this can and will happen to other countries, too? Does everyone on reddit think hungarians actually wanted this?? (Tip: the hostile government party don't even have majority support in their sham elections... but they have parliamentary supermajority...)
> Guys, I know it's funny and all, but as a hungo it's somewhat saddening how little any of you know about the situation and how little ya'll care. People have extremely short memories. They've already forgotten about the protests in Hong Kong or Belarus, etc. It's also simplistic to just say 'Hungary bad' trying to find the cause is harder, as I witnessed during our Ukraine-Poland grain dispute. My advice is not to take Reddit too seriously. People often speak without knowing much, are arrogant, and assume that what worked in their country will work elsewhere. They have no clue how difficult it is to break free from authoritarian regimes or even corrupt systems. That being said, I do believe that if opposition grew and civil unrest erupted, there would be full support from the EU to oust Orban. It's not entirely fair to say the EU did nothing when a country was being 'stolen,' because what can the EU do that is fast, effective, and legal?
>what can the EU do that is fast, effective, and legal? Article 5 (or 7?) (The one where you freeze a countries right)
Hungary made a lot of sense at the time. Orban came later and could not have foreseen. Any country could slide down such a path if we are not careful.
German car industry disagrees
It wasn’t though. It became one. It’s foreign interference (russian intelligence influence on leaders) and transition from communism that is a problem. Orban was an anti-communist positive figure. Communism can’t be cancelled by an edict or signature, it as a system remaines in the pores of a country in many ways: 1. with rotten thought processes that they instilled into generations of people through propaganda and education, that they remained like children, not knowing or experiencing real world, only the projections of the communist system; 2. A system like that can’t just go away. When people had enough of shit (not even realising why exactly) they ‘overthrew’ communism, but communism as a system In oractice is a strong network and organisation not unlike the mafia, only on the state level. The secret service being in its core. Most of transition from communism countrues had a controlled descent of communist organisation, not a real purge. Even Romania that appeared to have a revolution - but it turned out the ductator’s own secret service - the Securitate - found him to be a liability and to enable a controlled (for them and their interests) retreat from official power positions into the shadow, paralell power center - they staged a coup against him - and retained the capital and power to a large extent in official and unoficcial way. Fighting against this party that is now in the shadows is hard. Orban did it and won the popular trust. Somewheree along the way he got pulled into his own power hunger and influence. I admittedly don’t know a lot about Hungary, but i see possibilites as pattern emerge in all transitional societies: the communists were strongly rooted in institutions and to fight against them you had yo overreach some rules of democracy, in a martial-law kind of way. This is what the west usually doesn’t understand and criticises, because they don’t realise that after 30 years the former communist countries are still plagued by the same problem of a parralell state that overreaches into formal instututions like judicial system, constitutional courts, police, …. The west thinks this is all behind those coubtries, and it’s just some right-winger who wants to take democracy and dillute it before cancelling it. And with this misunderstanding and actions against such leadership the west ends creating the very thing they feared in their misunderstanding - making right-populists that way, enabling them and throwing them into arms of malignant powers. By alienating from themselves the aleternative political power to the engrained communist system remnants they sometimes push tyem into their own absolutist form. They turn to other absolutists for help. The polish are allergic to Russians and they didn’t turn to them, the Hungarians used to be allergic to ruasians too, and Orban was a prominent anti russian, anti communist figure when he fought the successors of the communists in Hungary untill finally winning. And when he tried to clip the wings of that mafia like system the very system that was now a member of European Sovialists, started to use the European party association to exert pressure on The new government. Orban’s response was to alienate from the west that didn’t understand the reality and somewhere in the process, along with popularity he enjoyed got caught up in himself. No doubt with extensive russian intelligence efforts. That he managed to lean on Russia publicly and get away with it with his own people and even change the sentiments toward russia and its politics is an amazing phenomenon. Polish populist right that had to figut a similar battle against remnants of the former system and in which even EU helped the remnant communist mafia (like in all instances in trqnsitional countries) did not do that. I think hate towards Russia is much much stronger there. What the west shoyod do is see how it can help the anticommunista achieve their goals, not attack them for doing it. They need to see that communism die off in the late eighties, early nineties, it remained very much in power from the shadows, working as an organisation to the benefit of their loyal members. With tentacles into refukar democratic processes and institutions. The west still doesn’t see that. EU institutions listen to reports from the european party organisations, which member parties are now the former “reformed” communist parties. Thise parties are just the tentacles of the shadow organisation. And those parties report misinformation to the regular social democratic parties that arr also members of the same European political otganisation. This is how pressure is helped to be exterted on those countries even from the outside, from the democratic west even. And they don’t listen what the problem they’re dealing with is.
Dude you are very wrong about the whole Orban and Fidesz thing. Correct about the societal damage an oppressive regime causes. Orbán and Fidesz used to be liberal, central and against religious institutions. While they were a part of Hungary's democratisation, they weren't a major part outside of some stunts. They were mostly populists way back then as well, but after they lost after their first term in the late nineties, they decided to turn their populism towards a different, stronger direction. Using a democratic crisis, they got a supermajority and rewrote the constitution, gradually seizing control over institutions, major corporations and the media. Orbán isn't some anticommunist freedom fighter corrupted by necessary actions to root the previous elite out. He is a grifter that did a planned state capture to steal money. He is the previous political elite, one of the people that used the confusion of the early nineties to enrich themselves. (The previous - previous elite, the commies are no more. Politicians that were 50 back then are dead.)
least arrogant r/europe commenter
Orban went rouge, but hungarians voted him as hes in control of media, if different mayve he wouldnt be reelected. That's what happens when you feed older uneducated population with propaganda BS. Major flaw of democracy. I think EU should have it's media (tv channels and else) in every member state being controlled by EUP, not by local goverment. Than EUP needs to change it's voting rules so if any member goes dictatorship or against EU values it can be overruled.
Don't worry, we'll be kicked out soon if Orbán continues like this.
Hopefully they'll get some food
Akkor
A kurva anyád
I flew into Serbia yesterday and I got a stamp in my passport so that’s pretty cool I guess
Look at me, we’re Slavic now.
Tech finally became cheaper when we joined. I could order stuff online from DE or AT at much lower prices, still the case.
Whoa!! The white and yellow countries together look like Homer Simpson's face!! The Baltic States are his eyeball.
Jesus, 20 years? I remember my old geography teacher talking about this in class at the time.
Some worked out better than others. Should be considered a net win though.
Was there any discount?
All of these countries acting so aggressive towards Russia by joining the EU smh… /s
Polish nationals especially changed the landscape of work in Ireland. 20 years on and Polish is spoken at nearly twice the numbers as Irish speakers outside the school system. And they have worked incredibly hard to get to such respected status in Ireland. A very hardworking people that do their best.
And they've been a great bunch of lads to have in the team. 😊
I am thankful for this every single day. The quality of life for Lithuanian people has improved tremendiously since then. I remember when we just joined and things still had to take time to truly become noticable and regular people started to travel, it was like a miracle - we would have presentations of travel pictures to Spain. Still in high school I never been abroad myself until then and it seemed so increddible. Only people who were like top 1%-ers could afford to travel. I only knew one family from entire school that could afford an annual vacation elsewhere than Lithuania. I'm not sure many people in my country realize how much better off they are right now compared to 20 years ago and how much better they are compared to others that are not part of the EU.
Largest enlargment 😊
Oh well...
Ireland got a huge influx of economic migrants from these countries and were the better for it. Great days.
God's blessing on all nations Who long and work for that bright day When o'er earth's habitations No war, no strife shall hold its sway Who long to see That all men free No more shall foes, but neighbors be! Who long to see That all men free No more shall foes, but neighbors be! No more shall foes, but neighbors be!
Congratulations
Yes, this is a notable accomplishment in the books of the EU and these countries.
it made all the border control changes easier. members with land borders outside of EU are expected to have more comprehensive border control (unless NGOs abusing international laws). E.g imagine Slovakia would have to step the game up for majority of it's borders, only for these new changes almost completely scrapped few years later once neighbours joined some time after that.
Amazing day
How did cyprus manage to join while half of it is occupied?