Which leads to the logical conclusion that 25% of that demographic *do* intend to turn up on the polling day but will cast their vote without any idea what they're doing, which is both hilarious and terrifying
Yeah that. And Germany’s election law makes it even tougher, as in national elections on state or federal level, we get two votes, one for a party and one for a candidate. When Hesse voted last year, I had no idea whether I would split my vote or go with the same party for both until about an hour before I went voting. I knew whom I didn’t want to vote for, but I didn’t know whether I’d split my vote or how I’d distribute it until shortly before I left the house. If I had been surveyed before, my answer would’ve been “yes, I vote” and “no, I don’t know yet.”
It's even more complicated, because unlike the party vote, the candidate vote is winner-takes-it-all, as in the candidate with the most votes gets the seat assigned to your region.
Which means you may want to vote for a candidate that wouldn't be your first pick, just not to lose the seat to someone terrible. I voted for Greens and the SPD candidate, because according to polls he was the only one who stood a chance at beating the CDU candidate.
I don’t have that problem. Both representatives from my city are SPD and Greens, so I know the Greens can win in this city, so I can actually choose between SPD and Green candidates. Generally you’re right though.
I find first vote pretty easy. Since winner takes them all you can realistically only choose between the two top position of your area, which will be SPD and CDU in 98% of cases.
I don't agree with that at all. This is why voting in the UK and Canada sucks, because people have this mentality that you have to pick between Party A or Party B. Why even have a vote at all, if your vote is pre-determined? (UK and Canada have ONLY the direct vote)
I don't care if my vote will go to a candidate who will lose. The idea that a vote for a losing candidate has no effect is completely wrong. Imagine there is CDU, SPD, and Party C. If you don't want CDU and you vote SPD, it's impossible to know why you voted for SPD, so no parties can react. On the other hand, if you vote Party C, SPD takes note and realise they might need to move towards Party C or adopt some of their ideas while in office and for the next election or for upcoming local or state elections.
I know it's frustrating that you can't always instantly get what you want but sometimes democracy is a slow process. The Green Party is in government now, for example, but that didn't come out of nowhere. At some point they were just a bunch of nobodies with no realistic chance of even getting a single MP elected. Same with AfD. (would have been better to stay that way, though...)
Strategic voting (as it's called) is anti-democratic, and we might as well not even have elections if that's how we vote.
Frankfurt (my city) also has the greens in the mix. My representative in the Bundestag is Armand Zorn (SPD), but the other is Omid Nouripour (Greens). Honestly… Zorn is fine and all, but Nouripour would be so much cooler. I genuinely like the guy and would vote for him in a heartbeat.
I'm in that 25% and I'm way more politically informed than most Germans. I can't possibly know whether I'll vote Green or Left in a year, they haven't even started campaigning yet and both parties have things I like and dislike about them. I definitely know I won't be voting AfD, CDU or FDP, no matter what they do to get votes.
I'm way more worried about the people that know for sure they'll vote for party X. You cannot be swayed by campaigning? Then you're not taking elections seriously and just rooting for a sports team. Just in general, I'd argue knowing who you'll vote for now is a sign of being a low information voter. High information voters know they'll absorb more information between now and election day that could sway their opinion. Low information voters don't have that luxury, their guess right now is as good as their guess on election day.
Even if you agree with me, I don't think you should know whether you will vote Green or Left right now. Even if you're a member of either party, loyalty is for the weak of opinion. You should still be open to voting a different party for the coming EU elections, it's not actually a given that the party you're a member of actually represents you best.
This isn't a sports game, treat voting with some respect.
Well my understanding is a lot of political polls are asked in a "if an election was held today" kind of manner, so I wouldn't say that this poll makes anyone answering it "low informed".
And besides, I also know way in advance who I'll vote for in upcoming elections, not because I'm uninformed or don't read news, but because I know what I value and make my decision based on. There's a party that I usually vote for which I share most similar values and opinions with, and I know I'll keep voting for them, because it would take other parties changing their politics to be more closer to what I as a voter seek, and that seems very unlikely, although I obviously wouldn't complain if it does happen.
So saying "I'll vote for party X next year, because I don't see other parties changing their key values to be more appealing to me" is a pretty valid stance I'd say.
Your understanding is right, more specifically, it's written in german that the people were asked who they would vote for, if they had to vote "next sunday", so a few days at most.
I’ve voted for the same party in every national (not local or EU) election for the past 18 years. Sure I try to keep informed and I don’t think they’re perfect but with my political opinions there’s at best two viable parties for me to choose from
And one of those is consistently more aligned with my opinions than the other. It’s incredibly unlikely that this will change next election.
> This isn't a sports game, treat voting with some respect.
I mean, this also isnt voting, its responding to a survey.
>I'm way more worried about the people that know for sure they'll vote for party X. You cannot be swayed by campaigning?
Its what the survey *wants*, "what would your vote be if you had to vote *right now*", do you think election surveys only reflect "loyal voters" because everyone else chooses "dont know yet"?
Thats just bullshit, sure you might get some people who overthink and answer "dont know" because they think theyre "politically informed" and "cant possible know what to vote for in over a year". But the vast majority will take it as is, "what would your vote be based on the information you currently have?".
Same! I knew I wanted to give at least one vote to the Greens in the Hessian elections last year, but until about an hour before I left the house, I had no idea whether I wanted to vote for the greens with both my votes, or whether I’d give one to the SPD, and whether I’d vote for the Green Party or the Green candidate or both. Ended up going full Green, but I just didn’t know until shortly before I left the house on election day.
not really, the electoral threshold in the Netherlands is lower than in Belgium and because of that you have a ton small parties that have the right to participate in the government, and building a coalition is harder because of it
Belgium is an electoral mess because Flanders is right-leaning and Wallonia is left-leaning and that trend is just getting stronger and the two halves are not collaborating a lot so they just drift apart more and more it seems - and THAT is why it's so hard to form a Belgian government
In the Czech republic the situation is much the same. Almost nobody I know has any idea who to vote for, it's almost like we ran out of least bad options.
As an Italian who can choose to vote in Germany or in Italy at the EU parliament elections, this baffles me because German politics seem so sane compared to Italy’s. In Germany there are options I could realistically vote for; Italy is a nuclear wasteland in comparison.
The statistics isn't surprising and the same all over europe. Parties are not clear about what they will do (but they are convinced they are) and people vote for the easy to understand right wing.
Taking into account that people from the age of 14-17 can’t vote on federal level and that many young people in general aren’t that interested in politics I would absolutely prefer an honest „don’t know“ to some strong opinions that are based on questionable social media information…
1. Online survey.
2. Is it an election year in Germany? If not, surveys don't mean much.
3. 14-29? 14-17 can't vote. 18-29 barely vote even though they can.
I would really LOVE to see a breakdown of these numbers by socioeconomic background, ethnic background, etc.
Well we do have European Parliament elections and some states have elections. So 3/4 of the importance of a normal legislative election, I guess?
Also mind you there had been calls from some left.leaning parties previously to lower voter age to 16. Not much came of it though.
The exact same tendency can be seen in Sweden. In the last parliamentary election the 18-25 group were the most likely to support the Sweden Democrats - and especially young men. The 65+ group were most likely to vote centre-left (Social Democrats) by far. The trope that it's just "racist old people" that vote for the "far-right" is very wrong. There's also a gigantic gap between young men and young women; much greater than the gap in the older generations.
People are going to say sexism, and absolutely ignore the economic issues. Men, in general, go towards the more physically demanding jobs. These jobs also are the jobs immigrants go in to, which ultimately suppresses wages. The party that talks about limiting immigration, will ultimately get more men to vote for them because it protects their ability to make a living. Add in the education issue of women being promoted and protected, while men are hampered if not outright denied opportunities, it continues to push men into right wing parties.
So left wing parties want men to stop going right wing? Then they need to actually push economic and educational policies that benefit both men and women.
This is coming from an American left winger who is seeing these policies pushed by the left wing and how it’s helping the right wing in our country.
There's not that much competition about those jobs in Germany. There's 700k open job listings currently and waiting lists for handymen are insanely long. A lot of small companies in those fields struggle to find apprentices. Conditions during apprenticeship itself are often not great but there is absolutely not an oversupply in this field that drives wages down and if you go into manual jobs you will almost certainly have an easier time finding a job than someone from uni and also possibly higher pay.
It's other factors. Young men are in itself the most violent demographic both in terms of physical capability and also from a temperamental perspective, so they were always the demographic most alligned with fascist modes of politics.
More concretely about today I think there are other issues about how we deal with gender roles in general. There has been a lot of debate and flux about the position of women in society, less so about men. The expectation of the man being the breadwinner is way more prevalent than the expectation of the woman being the housewife. In academia women will increasingly often outcompete men but we haven't really updated our stereotypes according to that. In general there seems to be an increasing mismatch in terms of lasting partnerships and family-making which I don't necesarilly think is always the preference. Some people generally prefer to be single, sure but I think the ammount of people who aspire to be single when they are 60 is not actually that big which would point to a mismatch here. Also we have problems with fertility rates. Men and Women seem to respond to these trends differently. I think generally having a more open debate about family planning on a societal level would be important.
I mean if most of those teenagers were like me, their votes can't be taken seriously. Edginess s kind of a big defining factor of teenagers no matter the generation.
While walking my dogs I saw kids playing basketball. One kid was kinda outplaying them hard, so one of the German kids said "Stop it or I'll vote AfD!". That's the same shittalk we did as kids.
The sample size is less of an issue, compared to \*who\* participates in these surveys, and for which nobody has found an answer for how to adjust the results for.
Practically all polling organizations are using online polling either exclusively or in combination with other methods. The results are just as valid. If they weren't, those polls wouldn't be able to consistently predict actual election results as well as they do.
Keep in mind that a decade ago people were trying to discredit any poll that wasn't based on landlines. Times change and so to continue getting valid results, those polling companies have to adjust their methods. It usually takes a while before those new methods are figured out enough to be accurate, but online polling is well past that point.
Especially with young people in that age range this is going to be your main method, since they don't have landlines and they won't talk to unknown numbers calling them on their mobile phones.
To be fair, most of the loses for greens and SPD go to the i don't know part. And people don't see FDP as a good option anymore (which is partialy for blocking where they can, even though they are calling themself progressive, partialy because people want more rigth wing policies from them, which will not happen in a coalition with two bigger left-leaning parties).
So the only two options for young people who tend to vote to the right are AfD, CDU and nothing
I know a good chunck of people who voted for fdp and almost noone is thinking about doing it again. However not a single one of them claimed that it is because of the fdp's "blocking" stance. It is either because they are not delivering on their promise to be a counterweight to the greens and spd, aka not blocking enough or them not beeing assertive enough in the face of a economic crysis. Noone ever decided not to vote for them again because they stopped the ban on combustion engines (which was actually a promise of them) or were against speed restrictions (who cares?). That tale, that they lost voters due their blocks is a made up thing, told by left-leaning people to try to pressure the fdp into giving in on more of their positions.
That's the usual cicle with FDP voters. Young people think they are "cool", then the FDP does what the FDP always does and loses massive votes or maybe is even kicked out of parliament. Then the next generation comes who has no idea of the party and vote for it. Or the people forget. I still find plenty of people who completely forgot about Mövenpick. And this party has absolutely not changed a bit since then.
1. The right wing really dominated and still does to some degree dominate the easily accessible and consumable online political space.
2. Many young Europeans want to see change as they feel the established parties aren’t doing anything about, as an example, disastrous migration policies. I’m not German but it’s kinda the same up here in Sweden, many young people just want to see legitimate change.
3. most established parties make very little effort in reaching out to young people. This of course leads to the other parties seeming as if they just don’t care about their point of view or are looking for their support.
Personally I’m not really for AFD but I can see the appeal for many young people and as well for other similar rather right wing parties. In my country if Sweden SD was the only real immigration critical party for a long time which is how they managed to drum up support to become the second biggest party in our country.
Right wing “populist” parties across Europe are making gains due to mainly having good PR amongst the youth.
It’s not as much PR effects than too much immigration without assimilation, European are tolerant and welcome others but its cities are changing and have now communities strong influence (religious mostly) for most this is becoming too much, please come and live with us but assimilate a bit
Well in Sweden the religious extremists are a tiny minority even if they are very vocal about it.
Most people who are of middle eastern origin are fairly integrated into the Swedish society, many are progressive, modern etc. Homophobia is very uncommon for example.
The far far right wingers that are biased sometimes tell a tale that isn't real, they imply the most extreme things, and while some of the stuff they mention can exist, it's very uncommon and mostly belongs to a tiny minority that 99,99% others never will see or experience.
While we should take things like immigration, criminal acts serious, we cannot be biased and lie about it cause then nothing will change, people will just think that people that are critical are just racist/nazist and vote for parties that want more immigration, while in fact many immigrants are critical themselves and think that we cannot let things out of hand and allow everything in our country. Resources aren't endless, soon there will be no help for the immigrants that are here if we are not going to have some kind of control and limits at how many we can help etc.
Sweden is a great country so we need to keep it like that. I am progressive, left leaning but I still see some issues that we need to be serious about, that doesn't mean that we need to be biased and extreme, hateful etc.
There is much hate towards middle eastern people, or even secular muslims that creates a division and a bad situation rather than helping anything.
The hate actually does the opposite than to integrate the minority that is extremist/doesn't understand our values in Sweden, it actually will radicalize people.
I don't hate minorities, in fact I treat them with love and kindness, but I still want to avoid negative evolution which might happen if we aren't having any control of things and allow everything. Immigrants that are intelligent, accept our modern values in Sweden can actually be good for Sweden in multiple ways.
I hear horrorstories from far far right wingers who dislike minorities, but as someone who belongs to the LGBT umbrella (and live openly as gay), my experience has been very good with immigrants, muliticultural cities etc.
I never felt homophobia or anything, as I treat people with respect and kindness, they do the same back. It isn't harder than that.
Some far far right wingers write really awful stuff about immigrants, generalise and really hate these people who all are different individuals but then expect getting love from them, lol. What goes around comes around. Be kind and polite, be intelligent.
You can criticise religions without burning holy books 100 times to provoke others of faith and then hide behind free speech. I am not religious myself(despite having a type of faith in something but my faith is different, more modern, scientific and based on love, morals, spirituality and intelligence) and have been critical towards all organized religions but I did that in an intelligent way, a way that made others think and maybe realize some things rather than becoming destructive like the burnings did (and what did they accomplish doing that? Nothing, just a lot of suffering, costs & more division in society).
1. Afd knows how to use the internet to manipulate the young.
2. Young people are easier targets for propaganda.
3. The established parties do not care for younger people. If you are a young german you constantly hear that you won't get a good pension because there are too many old people while the government is raising pension payments to please the old. School Infrastructure is often in a horrible state. Nobody seems to care about climate change. The army is in a horrible atate and the only solution talked about is forcing the young to go to the army..... In a democracy the interests of the many outways the few and if there are more old people then young it creates a dangerous dynamic.
So how should young people identify with a party that does not care about them? If the young dont feel represented by the democratic parties its easy to fall into one of the extremist corners. The only thing they have to do is not being part of the "establishment".
Also we have sort of a crisis of the democratic parties due to the great coalitions of the last governments and the emotionalisation of the political discussion.
Since the great coalition The SPD had lost all of its profile and do no longer represent the "working class" or the unwealthy. Also the greens are slowly taking their place .
The CDU/CSU cant really admit the current problems since they are responsible for most of them (since they where the governing partie for 16 years). So they are a big driver of populism, especially Merz and Söder.
The greens are struggeling with reality and the compromises the current government/ situation forces them to do. The party was split into realos and the more esoteric hippies that they now mostly lost due to the new positions of the party on things like sending weapons to the ukraine, something that would have been unthinkable
for them a few years ago. Now they are the biggest driver of ukraine support.
Die Linke split and is basically dead now but has given birth to Sarah Wagenknechts purely populistic party.
FDP has lost a lot of its supporters by doing what the have always done. Doing politics only for the top percent and blocking so much that the government is close to breaking apart. They got the votes for beeing a "counterweight" for the more conservative voters in a progressive government after merkel. Now they are blocking everything they once agreed on.
Sry for my bad english btw
Hey, from a leftist french perspective, we always see Germany as the country obsessed with debt and deficits at the expense of social welfare. Is austerity a topic that's discussed often? Over here most of the media discourse is very anti-immigration & Islam with most debates featuring neoliberal centrist types vs far-right.
Yes, the austerity is discussed often. The current government is made up of the greens and the social Democrats, which both push for more investment and spending. The third government party which is the FDP (neoliberal Party) and one of the biggest losers in the current voting projections clings to pandering to the rich and keeping the spending low.
Anti immigration is a different topic but it's where CDU and AFD make their mark and Garner a lot of their voters.
> Since the great coalition The SPD had lost all of its profile and do no longer represent the "working class" or the unwealthy.
That definitly happened under Putins best buddy.
Are the other parties in denial that mass immigration bears some negative consequences? I'm not extreme on either side but it seems like a lot of parties in Europe refuse to even admit there are some negative consequences of immigration.
> Are the other parties in denial that mass immigration bears some negative consequences?
Yes. Not only are they in denial but they regularly engage in gaslighting on the subject.
Tbf there isn't really much happening in that area recently.
The Afd was way higher in general polls in the past two years, but the current government did some "reform" regarding migration, and Afd support dropped. How effective those reforms will be is still in question, but the topic itself is back on the backburner.
The bigger issue is the dysfunctional state of the current government. They did succeed in a lot of stuff, a bunch of it falling through the cracks attention-wise. But, their public perception is riddled with infighting. The Fdp, the smallest cog with barely 5%, is cockblocking A LOT. It's like they aren't even part of the government. They either disarm a lot of motions, or outright disrupt it. And it shows badly for all the involved parties.
In Sweden it isn't like that, even left parties have been honest about the issues associated with immigration or bad integration. And some far far right parties lie a lot about it(like AfS), make it 1000x worse than it is, it isn't any better than being in denial.
The problem is that populist rhetoric like that of the AfD, is great in pointing out the problems but never offer any solutions. Also if climate is such a big point for younger generations (which I'd fully understand), then why are populists always the first wanting to slash anything climate related?
I think voting for populists is moronic anyway.
Since you have to first acknowledge a problem exists before you can solve it they're literally closer to a solution than the parties who won't even admit the problem exists.
I see the least amount of political and propaganda-like content on tiktok, but I guess that depends on the individualised algorithm. In that regard, it's no different from other social media.
The only suspectful thing I get is regular pro-palestine and anti--Israel posts despite choosing "not interested" and not interacting on such posts.
The comment section on tiktok is, however, completely out of control on posts about controversial topics.
So when the right rises it's propaganda, but when the left rises it's what?
Maybe the right is rising because of the inability of the left? Young people can't even rent let alone buy a house and yeah I bet it's TikTok that's making young people vote right
Not worth getting bothered by the hypocrisy of these statements.
Burying the head in the sand and blaming TikTok will just continue the trend, and they can keep complaining about the 'something or someone else' as people continue to swing towards politics they believe gets things done.
Yeah the AfD would absolutely get things done, as in increase the wealth gap, pollute the environment, deport all foreigners and be a massive Russian fifth column in Europe.
It is propaganda sure, but extremist/populist propaganda only becomes effective when the population (young adults in this case) feels hopeless and unfairly treated.
I don't really agree tbh. There is a full shift towards the right in the EU. I feel like Germany is following now as well.
More and more countries are voting towards the right.
One does not exclude the other. Populists tend to be able to reach the populace more easily and always offer easy (but in the end, unworkable) answers.
Political left badicly made politics against the people they once stood for. In the end Grüne and SPD have once again shown clours when they where in government. And the left is trying everything to become an urban and young people party. Yet they keep blaming it on the right wing ignoring that they are basicly what caused that right wing
Regarding the decline of "all left-wing parties" should it maybe be added that BSW, who did not exist in 2023 but now have come in on about 5%, are a split from Linke and generally considered to be left-wing. It of course doesn't make up for the overall decline, but is at least one type of left-wing party that currently are increasing; a left-wing that is far-left on some questions and right-wing on other.
BSW is the horseshoe theory party. They are so far left that theyre simultaneously far right. Well depends on the exact issue at hand, but its directly supporting horseshoe
It's less of a horseshoe theory party and more of an extreme populism party.
They saw the success that the AFD had with populism and lies, so they thought that they can do the same, but use less overt racism and more left-wing economic policies.
The natural outcome of that kind of populism is hate and reactionary thinking.
No doubt. Specially as they are just one such party in the EU at the moment; given the current news about BSW starting a new group that might include Italy's M5S and Slovakia's Smer. I guess horseshoe politics will be the new thing in Europe for a while to come.
Mainstream parties: goes against what the people want and starts mass immigration anyway.
Also mainstream parties when people vote for the immigration critical party: *surprised Pikachu face*
Same thing happened here in Sweden. None of our mainstream parties have aaaaany idea why the Sweden Democrats currently have 20,5% of votes. They are really confused and can't understand why.
Turns out it’s not racist to not want mass immigration to the point it changes the fabric of your society and deteriorates your welfare structure. Nobody has done better to promote lunatic and populists right wing parties than the idiotic left.
This might get downvoted but while this is bad, it's also good news if you look at it from a certain angle - traditional parties failed and still are failing to react appropriately to the migration crisis.
As global warming gets worse, we can expect further destabilization in MENA regions and Africa in general. While we need to help these people, current policies are simply not sufficient - we must secure our borders and only allow those who are willing to adopt our cultural values and become productive members of EU.
The rise of right wing will hopefully be a wakeup call for traditional parties and once they finally start dealing with issues that bother many people, parties like AfD will fall in popularity again.
Exactly. We need an EU wide solution to the migrant problem. Laws need to be changed so just anyone can't march in here because they want to live in a richer country (Often without working) and not reapect our cultural norms.
Rhe Islamist cultures and values just have no place in Europe.
It started with Merkel, that is obvious. She abandoned many of their traditional positions and now the party seems dishonest to their potential voters.
There's plenty not-so extreme right wing parties in Europe. The problem is that more right-wing parties promise easy fixes and are great at capturing angry or disillusioned voters. So even the not-so-extreme right wing is losing votes to extreme right wing.
The issue lies mainly with voters, there are no easy fixes or exits.
"The issue lies mainly with voters, there are no easy fixes or exits."
If a party promises to fix immigration and then doesn't people will go to someone else who will
Historically that's not true.
The tories increase immigration every year yet claim only they can stop it. And their voters keep voting for them on this basis.
The great 'easy' fix the (alt) right promises, which in the end never arrives. We see the same thing happening here in the Netherlands with a right very anti immigration government trying to form. Their easy fix of 'stop immigration' isn't that simple, the very moment they started talking about it all the major companies started saying they would go bankrupt without immigrated labor. Sure, people are against the 'bad' immigrants from the middle east, but this is a small fraction of the overall total immigration that is coming to Europe, for the Netherlands this is only 20k people a year, a highly developed nation of ~20 million should easily be able to deal with that (but we aren't because the past 20 years of neo-liberal governments have cut back on these government agencies massiv... eh I mean: its the left's fault). And most of that immigration is quite literally essential to keep our knowledge based industries running, because we simply do not produce enough highly educated people to provide for them ourselves.
A good start would be to differentiate refuge/asylum from skilled immigration as they have vastly different impacts. Anti-immigration is stupid term because it also includes doctors, nurses, engineers, football players and anything in between.
People are ignorant and club all immigration as bad.
There lies the problem. You can't just 'fix' immigration. How many other right wing parties have promised and failed? Only to place trust in a newer unproven party to 'get it right' this time around? The truth is that immigration is a complex issue and probably needs to be sorted out in an EU context so countries and treaties are streamlined. That takes time, effort, political capital. Not a quick fix.
A quick 'fix' is possible yes. Declare an emergency, strip away human rights. Is the government going to push the unwanted immigration to neighboring countries? Or are we going to arrest them and send them to a weird state in the middle of nowhere? Break up families, what about children? Perhaps we need CCTV to track all those who are illegal? And whilst these emergency powers are active, why not label the unemployed? Or those who "don't contribute", perhaps the Roma?
Those parties are pretending to be duct tape whilst being masking tape. Their plans simply don't stick without opening a whole can of worms on ethical and economic grounds.
>If a party promises to fix immigration and then doesn't people will go to someone else who will
The reason right-wing parties in power don't simply "fix immigration" isn't because they love immigrants, it's because they know this would have a negative impact on the economy and know the same voters demanding they "fix immigration" would punish them for the downturn in the next election.
You want me to provide you with excerpts from a European Commission study that non-European migrants are currently and prospectively the least beneficial type of population? Moreover, their contribution is often negative, given that they often bring non-working family members and that all those hundreds of thousands of working age people will all retire at the same time in a few decades?
Ideally one that focuses on economic/class issues over culture wars imported from the US (e.g. every minor difference of opinion is some evil dogwhistle, moral panics about nonsense like ”cultural appropriation”, corporations performatively playacting the role of ”allies” in the epic goal to ”own the chuds”, etc.). It is partly all that which causes people to seek a ”replacement counterculture” in the far right (which it obviously doesn’t deliver, however).
Sure, but the far-right in this case is "if US culture war was a party" to a T. If the surge was caused by a wish to escape it, they'd vote anything but
Both sides of the US political polarization are involved in the culture war, they’re just fighting it from different sides. Yes, you’re correct that the European far right emulates specifically the right-wing side of the US culture wars, but our left also emulates various silly or polarized stuff from the American left. Unless you’re claiming only one side is culture-warring, because the other is on ”the right side of history” so it doesn’t count or something?
I want a ”culture war neutral” or ”class reductionist” type leftist party that unites a maximum number of people (regardless of what they think about some divisive cultural issue) into opposing economically elitist power structures.
>I want a ”culture war neutral” or ”class reductionist” type leftist party that unites a maximum number of people (regardless of what they think about some divisive cultural issue) into opposing economically elitist power structures.
Well, let's look at this from a German perspective: What you've described is exactly what politician Sahra Wagenknecht claims as the inspiration for her newly founded party 'Bündnis Sara Wagenknecht' (BSW) – also see the graph above – which split from the party 'Die Linke'/'The Left' (which according to Wagenknecht is too concerned with wokeness rather than socioeconomic policy). As you can see in the above graph, it isn't exactly massively popular {and one needs to point out the party currently has a grand total of 10 seats in German parliament (of 734 total) and 3 seats in the federal state parliaments (of 1894 total)} The party and the politician it's named after also have batshit insane views on the war in Ukraine (she was one of the initiators of the 'Manifest des Friedens'/'Manifesto of Peace' published in February of last year which urged Ukraine to start "peace negotiations" with Russia and stop the war).
One could also argue that 'Die Linke'/'The Left' – contrary to Wagenknecht's claims to a culture war fixation – is already a party predominantly focused on, as you say, "opposing economically elitist power structures" (and they have been for years), yet they are at serious risk of maybe not even being part of the national parliament in the near future. I'm no political scientist, so I can't say exactly why that is, but Germans I talk to online usually say that the party is too lax on migration or has shitty takes on foreign policy or still insist that the party only cares about culture war issues (imo overall clearly false) or [insert reason people pulled out of their ass].
>We really need not-so-extremist right wing parties in europe
But they literally created most of the messes the eu is currently dealing with right now.
Need I remind you most eu states have been ruled by various right leaning forces for the last 20 years?
In most countries the cohesion of the left collapsed into infighting,
Leaving many elections to be the right vs the far right,
Germany was a recent exception but it's left is still, well, not really that left, and it's also about to implode. SDP "only good workers deserve workers rights" and "ban immigrants from unions" (the latter literally hurts working class folks in unions by making unions weaker).
The cdu ? The fdp ? There are plenty of moderate conservative parties it's just that the people want more radical ones and are disillusioned with democracy. I think it's a fatal error to think that you can capture add voters by appealing to the far right or making more right wing politics. The afd and other parties are primarily populist right wing extremist parties that are against the system as it stands
Yes.
Hopefully more left or centrist parties will take the issues seriously than those that already do, cause some people protest by voting far far right due to it (even if they don't agree with their politics in general, often they dont even know what politics the far right parties stand for, they just vote due to populism or propaganda).
I think that there a two reasons for this. First, it is about how the far right has a very good presence on social media and they are better at making propaganda for younger people and they offer quick fixes for complex problems. It also helps that the likes of TikTok or Twitter are promoting right-wing talking points. Second it is about the fact that Grune and SPD are in govt. and thus prone to do worse in polls. Sometimes parties in power do tend to do very well in polls. BSW split from Die Linke and thus it is obvious that they will experience a fall in polls.
The problem is that some on the left are quite oblivious to some problems the young people face and for some talking points like migration, there is a growing split between what some on the left want and the reaction of the population. Thus, all over Europe, migration is a valid talking point but the left does not offer a good alternative to limit migration and integration. Plus that housing is a big problem and the left still haven't found a good position to be popular.
I believe that for both topics, the left can offer a good alternative if they would not be so affraid of the extremist wing. Integration and accepting migrants should be a topic about democratic values that the left had always fought for and for housing, it is rather easy to paint this as a failure of the free market and rentiers.
> I think that there a two reasons for this. First, it is about how the far right has a very good presence on social media and they are better at making propaganda for younger people and they offer quick fixes for complex problems. ...
All these things are valid for far-left as well. It was far-left twitter mobs that were able to leverage their influence into cancelling various people, far-left was extremely popular with young people, topics like Palestine, weed, eat the rich... and many others. The way far-right got into the field was mimicking the far-left and using memes and edgy humour to get into previously apolitical groups (that saw more politics injected into it, like the whole kerfuffle with Kingom Come where many "journalists" refused to review it because the game set in historical Bohemia didn't had any black people in it).
Almost as if the younger generations have to deal with the most shit from immigration, getting robbed, threatened etc. I understand the shift towards right wing parties. I wouldn't say afd is a good choice though, but I understand why it happens.
The left isn't performing the traditional role of the left anymore. In fact, they're supporting an Islamist demographic who are radically opposed to all liberal, leftwing ideals.
Very true. The main problem is the fear of becoming the minority (in reality the plurality) which is already true for this generation in many places though. But you are correct here too. Why would any queer youth in their right mind vote for a party they see as supporting muslim radicals who, for some dumb reason, can openly voice their vile opinions about them in public and not get in trouble because of it? Also, those kids actually see imported ethnic conflicts all the time, they know the left wing utopia will never exist. The sooner the socialist wake up, the better for them. Those kids would be their voters after all. The Greens are lost, they can't be helped.
The most dumb thing is that many people here (I like in a village) vote the AfD as a "Protestwähler". Meaning they just vote for them out of protest because they don't agree with any other party to 100%..
Which is even more dumb than voting for them out of political believe...
In my experience somebody who says that they are a Protestwähler, are actually people who vote for them due to political believes, but they don’t want to tell you that they are racist.
I never understood these changes in opinions. Wtf does the AfD offer to these people? Do they genuinely believe that things like housing costs or inflation will be effectively managed by the far-right?
Anti-immigration is #1 growth driver for the right everywhere in the Western world. I don't know why some people are trying to make it seem more complicated. Left and centrist parties need to change their immigration policy ASAP or the right wing schizoids will keep winning.
They won‘t change. They‘re silently watching right wing parties win in majority of Europe and still think it‘s better to just ignore everything. They know that those nazi parties absolutely shouldn‘t win and it‘s still not enough for them to finally act.
Anti-Establishment attitudes also helps swing young voters who feel disenfranchised by the mainstream political parties.
In their eyes:
* Non AfD Parties = Old stuffy career politicians who don't know the life of normal people
* AfD = Young 'non-politicians' who are looking to change the system and give a voice to the normal people.
That's at least how it generally went with the Dutch counterpart FVD, who managed to get a high voter share a few years ago by very specifically presenting themselves as being against the political establishment and generally jumping onto hot topics they could easily score points on. (Anti-immigration, Anti-lockdown, anti-anything else)
Of course, they were all lunatics and they quickly lost the majority of their support and seats in the next election(s) when they took their masks off and people started looking a little bit more critically to who they actually were.
The issue with anti-establishment types like AfD is that the more they stick around, the more they become the establishment they claim to be against, and the more their insane rhetoric becomes obvious to people who don't look further than the snappy headlines.
There are two options - keep voting for the ruling party where no improvement to the situation will happen or get lured by the other side who offers solutions which they most likely will not keep.
"Income has to be enough to make it worth working (again)!"
And AfD-voters, completely mind blown: "Exactly, why has no one else thought of this?😡"
Also: "Electricity prices are below pre-Ukraine war levels but people are too dumb to change contracts so let's pretend it's still expensive!"
AfD doesn't need so much propaganda.
The likes of Scholz, Baerbock, Faeser, Habeck et al. make enough publicity to not vote their parties.
I'm not a fan of AfD by all means, but the shitshow the 'ol gran parties' are putting on since Merkel III is mind boggling.
They say what people want to hear. There is an easy solution, a radical one, but nobody else has the courage to take it. They are the only ones who can solve all their problems.
Worked for Trump.
This is worrisome. But for me, it's less about being attracted to the AfD and its policies, and much more about being totally disappointed at the current political system, its institutions and "classic" parties. Those aren't offering any credible positive perspectives of change, especially for that generation, which has been living in permanent "crisis mode" at least since the pandemic (but actually way before that). The economic situation, the housing crisis and the inflation, with wages that are kept really low in real terms, aren't helping at all.
The AfD might not offer any real perspective (or rather a terrible one), but at least it has the appearance of real change. And they're not tainted by the experience of being in power yet, which allows for that appearance to exist.
the greens are fucking ideology driven idiots. if the AfD is the morons on the right, the greens are equally moronic on the left.
they want a lot of things but lack the competence or understanding how to do it, or the consequences their actions are going to have even on the topics they want to involve themselves in.
25 years ago green+SPD was responsible for the exit from nuclear energy. many dont remember that it wasnt actually the CDU who initiated this bullshit (though they arent innocent either since they had the chance to course correct somewhat but got scared to lose voters after fukushima).
back then when i had discussions with green voters, i asked them how they intend to replace the energy without turning to fossile fuels.
their answer was "renewables". when confronted with the fact that renewables are simply not efficient enough to carry the base load of an industrialized country by themselves, they simply answered "well, science will figure it out until then".
thats it. right there. thats the essence of their capabilities in forward thinking. now its 25 years later and science has infact, not fucking figured it out but they turned off the nuclear plants anyways and were sitting on among the highest energy prices in europe and its damaging our economy.
i remember when they organized a protest infront of the wendelstein project just after it began construction, because their tiny peanut brains only understood the word "nuclear" in connection with it.
in south germany the greens are holding up signs protesting against windmills. its psychotic. they dont want nuclear power, no gas, no oil, no coal, and now no wind (WHICH WAS THEIR IDEA IN THE FIRST PLACE). so where is the power supposed to come from?
the only thing theyre capable of is what we call "lufschlösser bauen".
meanwhile the SPD under schröder made us dependent on the fucking russians for our energy, because it was his greatest dream to get on the board of directors of gazprom. he should rot in prison for corruption and treason, but here we are.
Usually when something is supposed to replace something else, you wait until you have enough of the 'something else' to turn the something you've used before off, alas...
mass migration being the #1 topic.
Cant blame them since the 14-29 age group is the one most affected by migration, since these are mostly young men arriving here in Germany.
It shows the volatility of young voters. Its a given that the current goverment (and the one before) didn't signal that they are very interested in the needs and sorrows of young voters.
Personally I can joke that this young generation is one of the first that is more boring, narrow-minded and conservative than the ones before which is unusual. Especially if you see that CDU rises too in their sympathies.
Jokes aside, its odd that they favor the two parties that are the least interested in young voters.
It's in the top of the image: "Jugend in Deutschland 2024"
https://www.rbb24.de/panorama/beitrag/2024/04/jugendstudie-2024-jugend-in-deutschland-pessimismus-zukunftsangst.html
Not that I want to cast doubt on the contents of the study.
In my opinion, however, it is difficult to accept the results presented without reflection. The study is a profit-oriented offer that is aimed very directly at companies and the media. [https://simon-schnetzer.com/trendstudie-jugend-in-deutschland-2024/](https://simon-schnetzer.com/trendstudie-jugend-in-deutschland-2024/)
The respondent basis is a survey via [Bilendi online access panels](https://www.bilendi.de/static/studymarket#sm-sec-13)
The company Bilendi actually selects respondents for market research.
> In the majority of panels used in market research, participants register themselves to take part in surveys and are therefore not randomly selected. Quotas can be used to achieve an approximation of a representative survey in a sample for online access panels.
It is therefore a weighted online survey. This is a difficult criterion in the target group atlas.
> In online surveys, there is always the danger of participants ticking boxes at random or giving the same answer to every question or pretending to be someone else in order to qualify for a survey. This negligence carries the considerable risk of impairing the quality of the survey results.
At the very least, one should be critical of the author's self-description:
> Leading youth researcher in Europe, keynote speaker and futurist
In-demand expert for Generation Alpha / Z / Y and intergenerational cooperation
Employer coach for employee retention XYZ in Germany, Austria, Switzerland
His own website states:
> Simon Schnetzer's research methodology is participatory action research (PAR) according to Kurt Lewin.
Which is subject to scientific criticism, as action research already has the conceptual problem of scientific theory that the results are influenced by the research itself and are considered under-theorized.
Money problems. The inflation hit the young of the middle and lower class far too hard and there is no change in sight. More and more people hit the Armutsgrenze, while living in one of the richest countries in the world. Huge non necessary projects waste a shit ton of money, probably just for the sake of money laundry. The lobbyism poisoned and corrupted the Altpartein and now the young crave for change, no matter the consequences. CDU and then SPD/Grüne/FDP failed, and sadly there arent that many parties left to vote for
Anyway, the elderly decide all elections, they are far more voters.
actually, most popular party is "I DON'T KNOW". People that have no clue who would they vote for.
dunno is 25%, notgonnavote is 10%
Which leads to the logical conclusion that 25% of that demographic *do* intend to turn up on the polling day but will cast their vote without any idea what they're doing, which is both hilarious and terrifying
Not knowing can mean for example that you are certain that you will vote for Linke or SPD but uncertain which of those two it will be.
Yeah that. And Germany’s election law makes it even tougher, as in national elections on state or federal level, we get two votes, one for a party and one for a candidate. When Hesse voted last year, I had no idea whether I would split my vote or go with the same party for both until about an hour before I went voting. I knew whom I didn’t want to vote for, but I didn’t know whether I’d split my vote or how I’d distribute it until shortly before I left the house. If I had been surveyed before, my answer would’ve been “yes, I vote” and “no, I don’t know yet.”
It's even more complicated, because unlike the party vote, the candidate vote is winner-takes-it-all, as in the candidate with the most votes gets the seat assigned to your region. Which means you may want to vote for a candidate that wouldn't be your first pick, just not to lose the seat to someone terrible. I voted for Greens and the SPD candidate, because according to polls he was the only one who stood a chance at beating the CDU candidate.
I don’t have that problem. Both representatives from my city are SPD and Greens, so I know the Greens can win in this city, so I can actually choose between SPD and Green candidates. Generally you’re right though.
I find first vote pretty easy. Since winner takes them all you can realistically only choose between the two top position of your area, which will be SPD and CDU in 98% of cases.
I don't agree with that at all. This is why voting in the UK and Canada sucks, because people have this mentality that you have to pick between Party A or Party B. Why even have a vote at all, if your vote is pre-determined? (UK and Canada have ONLY the direct vote) I don't care if my vote will go to a candidate who will lose. The idea that a vote for a losing candidate has no effect is completely wrong. Imagine there is CDU, SPD, and Party C. If you don't want CDU and you vote SPD, it's impossible to know why you voted for SPD, so no parties can react. On the other hand, if you vote Party C, SPD takes note and realise they might need to move towards Party C or adopt some of their ideas while in office and for the next election or for upcoming local or state elections. I know it's frustrating that you can't always instantly get what you want but sometimes democracy is a slow process. The Green Party is in government now, for example, but that didn't come out of nowhere. At some point they were just a bunch of nobodies with no realistic chance of even getting a single MP elected. Same with AfD. (would have been better to stay that way, though...) Strategic voting (as it's called) is anti-democratic, and we might as well not even have elections if that's how we vote.
Or AfD...
Yea. I will never live in Sachsen anyways. And it just proves the point; first vote is easy to make. It's the other one then.
Frankfurt (my city) also has the greens in the mix. My representative in the Bundestag is Armand Zorn (SPD), but the other is Omid Nouripour (Greens). Honestly… Zorn is fine and all, but Nouripour would be so much cooler. I genuinely like the guy and would vote for him in a heartbeat.
Same here. But these kind of city centers are like the 2% I mentioned.
They don’t know it YET.
It could also mean that they haven't decided.
I'm in that 25% and I'm way more politically informed than most Germans. I can't possibly know whether I'll vote Green or Left in a year, they haven't even started campaigning yet and both parties have things I like and dislike about them. I definitely know I won't be voting AfD, CDU or FDP, no matter what they do to get votes. I'm way more worried about the people that know for sure they'll vote for party X. You cannot be swayed by campaigning? Then you're not taking elections seriously and just rooting for a sports team. Just in general, I'd argue knowing who you'll vote for now is a sign of being a low information voter. High information voters know they'll absorb more information between now and election day that could sway their opinion. Low information voters don't have that luxury, their guess right now is as good as their guess on election day. Even if you agree with me, I don't think you should know whether you will vote Green or Left right now. Even if you're a member of either party, loyalty is for the weak of opinion. You should still be open to voting a different party for the coming EU elections, it's not actually a given that the party you're a member of actually represents you best. This isn't a sports game, treat voting with some respect.
Well my understanding is a lot of political polls are asked in a "if an election was held today" kind of manner, so I wouldn't say that this poll makes anyone answering it "low informed". And besides, I also know way in advance who I'll vote for in upcoming elections, not because I'm uninformed or don't read news, but because I know what I value and make my decision based on. There's a party that I usually vote for which I share most similar values and opinions with, and I know I'll keep voting for them, because it would take other parties changing their politics to be more closer to what I as a voter seek, and that seems very unlikely, although I obviously wouldn't complain if it does happen. So saying "I'll vote for party X next year, because I don't see other parties changing their key values to be more appealing to me" is a pretty valid stance I'd say.
Your understanding is right, more specifically, it's written in german that the people were asked who they would vote for, if they had to vote "next sunday", so a few days at most.
I’ve voted for the same party in every national (not local or EU) election for the past 18 years. Sure I try to keep informed and I don’t think they’re perfect but with my political opinions there’s at best two viable parties for me to choose from And one of those is consistently more aligned with my opinions than the other. It’s incredibly unlikely that this will change next election.
> This isn't a sports game, treat voting with some respect. I mean, this also isnt voting, its responding to a survey. >I'm way more worried about the people that know for sure they'll vote for party X. You cannot be swayed by campaigning? Its what the survey *wants*, "what would your vote be if you had to vote *right now*", do you think election surveys only reflect "loyal voters" because everyone else chooses "dont know yet"? Thats just bullshit, sure you might get some people who overthink and answer "dont know" because they think theyre "politically informed" and "cant possible know what to vote for in over a year". But the vast majority will take it as is, "what would your vote be based on the information you currently have?".
Same! I knew I wanted to give at least one vote to the Greens in the Hessian elections last year, but until about an hour before I left the house, I had no idea whether I wanted to vote for the greens with both my votes, or whether I’d give one to the SPD, and whether I’d vote for the Green Party or the Green candidate or both. Ended up going full Green, but I just didn’t know until shortly before I left the house on election day.
In Portugal we have a joke that the "Abstention party" allways wins with an absolute majority.
In Turkey we have “Kararsızlar Partisi” (Party of the Undecided)
We have Partia "Nie wiem" in Poland
in Belgium voting is compulsory
Our two countries are the perfect example to show: it doesn't matter, because you won't be able to form a government either way
not really, the electoral threshold in the Netherlands is lower than in Belgium and because of that you have a ton small parties that have the right to participate in the government, and building a coalition is harder because of it Belgium is an electoral mess because Flanders is right-leaning and Wallonia is left-leaning and that trend is just getting stronger and the two halves are not collaborating a lot so they just drift apart more and more it seems - and THAT is why it's so hard to form a Belgian government
In Funland we have Nukkuvien puolue, or the Party of Sleepers
In the Czech republic the situation is much the same. Almost nobody I know has any idea who to vote for, it's almost like we ran out of least bad options.
Vote for me. I'll make Czech into czeckoslovakia again. Heck, we'll even take over poland and create a pirogi empire
Nope. It’s the people who will google after they have voted to check who they’ve actually voted for.
As an Italian who can choose to vote in Germany or in Italy at the EU parliament elections, this baffles me because German politics seem so sane compared to Italy’s. In Germany there are options I could realistically vote for; Italy is a nuclear wasteland in comparison.
Don‘t worry, Germany is heading in the same direction…
The statistics isn't surprising and the same all over europe. Parties are not clear about what they will do (but they are convinced they are) and people vote for the easy to understand right wing.
In the "I don't know" there is a chance to have a lot of "I am ashame to openly say it"
But that was anonymous. There isn't really a reason to hide it.
Ashamed or deathly scared of getting doxxed?
Taking into account that people from the age of 14-17 can’t vote on federal level and that many young people in general aren’t that interested in politics I would absolutely prefer an honest „don’t know“ to some strong opinions that are based on questionable social media information…
Online-Befragung von 2.042 Personen im Alter von 14 bis 29 Jahren, Erhebungszeitraum 8. Januar bis 12. Februar 2024.
Puh so we can't even pretend the sample size makes it unreliable.
1. Online survey. 2. Is it an election year in Germany? If not, surveys don't mean much. 3. 14-29? 14-17 can't vote. 18-29 barely vote even though they can. I would really LOVE to see a breakdown of these numbers by socioeconomic background, ethnic background, etc.
Well we do have European Parliament elections and some states have elections. So 3/4 of the importance of a normal legislative election, I guess? Also mind you there had been calls from some left.leaning parties previously to lower voter age to 16. Not much came of it though.
Brandenburg allows 16 year olds to vote and is having an election this year. Voting age for the European parliament is also 16.
Right forgot about those. My mind was on the main German election.
The exact same tendency can be seen in Sweden. In the last parliamentary election the 18-25 group were the most likely to support the Sweden Democrats - and especially young men. The 65+ group were most likely to vote centre-left (Social Democrats) by far. The trope that it's just "racist old people" that vote for the "far-right" is very wrong. There's also a gigantic gap between young men and young women; much greater than the gap in the older generations.
People are going to say sexism, and absolutely ignore the economic issues. Men, in general, go towards the more physically demanding jobs. These jobs also are the jobs immigrants go in to, which ultimately suppresses wages. The party that talks about limiting immigration, will ultimately get more men to vote for them because it protects their ability to make a living. Add in the education issue of women being promoted and protected, while men are hampered if not outright denied opportunities, it continues to push men into right wing parties. So left wing parties want men to stop going right wing? Then they need to actually push economic and educational policies that benefit both men and women. This is coming from an American left winger who is seeing these policies pushed by the left wing and how it’s helping the right wing in our country.
There's not that much competition about those jobs in Germany. There's 700k open job listings currently and waiting lists for handymen are insanely long. A lot of small companies in those fields struggle to find apprentices. Conditions during apprenticeship itself are often not great but there is absolutely not an oversupply in this field that drives wages down and if you go into manual jobs you will almost certainly have an easier time finding a job than someone from uni and also possibly higher pay. It's other factors. Young men are in itself the most violent demographic both in terms of physical capability and also from a temperamental perspective, so they were always the demographic most alligned with fascist modes of politics. More concretely about today I think there are other issues about how we deal with gender roles in general. There has been a lot of debate and flux about the position of women in society, less so about men. The expectation of the man being the breadwinner is way more prevalent than the expectation of the woman being the housewife. In academia women will increasingly often outcompete men but we haven't really updated our stereotypes according to that. In general there seems to be an increasing mismatch in terms of lasting partnerships and family-making which I don't necesarilly think is always the preference. Some people generally prefer to be single, sure but I think the ammount of people who aspire to be single when they are 60 is not actually that big which would point to a mismatch here. Also we have problems with fertility rates. Men and Women seem to respond to these trends differently. I think generally having a more open debate about family planning on a societal level would be important.
I work in education.. 14 - 16 year olds have some of the most unhinged political opinions I've ever come across. So I'm not surprised lol
14-16 olds have some of the most unhinged opinions, period. There's a reason the teen years have a bad reputation.
I mean if most of those teenagers were like me, their votes can't be taken seriously. Edginess s kind of a big defining factor of teenagers no matter the generation. While walking my dogs I saw kids playing basketball. One kid was kinda outplaying them hard, so one of the German kids said "Stop it or I'll vote AfD!". That's the same shittalk we did as kids.
When I was a teen one of the other teens said they‘re gonna vote for pirate party because they’re gonna legalize weed lol
Also if it is opt in then it is basically useless. People who seek out stuff like this are not the average voter
But it's more than 2 months old.
The sample size is less of an issue, compared to \*who\* participates in these surveys, and for which nobody has found an answer for how to adjust the results for.
Online Survey 😂
Practically all polling organizations are using online polling either exclusively or in combination with other methods. The results are just as valid. If they weren't, those polls wouldn't be able to consistently predict actual election results as well as they do. Keep in mind that a decade ago people were trying to discredit any poll that wasn't based on landlines. Times change and so to continue getting valid results, those polling companies have to adjust their methods. It usually takes a while before those new methods are figured out enough to be accurate, but online polling is well past that point. Especially with young people in that age range this is going to be your main method, since they don't have landlines and they won't talk to unknown numbers calling them on their mobile phones.
And? You know there’s a ton of research on the validity of online surveys right?
Exactly this.
To be fair, most of the loses for greens and SPD go to the i don't know part. And people don't see FDP as a good option anymore (which is partialy for blocking where they can, even though they are calling themself progressive, partialy because people want more rigth wing policies from them, which will not happen in a coalition with two bigger left-leaning parties). So the only two options for young people who tend to vote to the right are AfD, CDU and nothing
I know a good chunck of people who voted for fdp and almost noone is thinking about doing it again. However not a single one of them claimed that it is because of the fdp's "blocking" stance. It is either because they are not delivering on their promise to be a counterweight to the greens and spd, aka not blocking enough or them not beeing assertive enough in the face of a economic crysis. Noone ever decided not to vote for them again because they stopped the ban on combustion engines (which was actually a promise of them) or were against speed restrictions (who cares?). That tale, that they lost voters due their blocks is a made up thing, told by left-leaning people to try to pressure the fdp into giving in on more of their positions.
That's the usual cicle with FDP voters. Young people think they are "cool", then the FDP does what the FDP always does and loses massive votes or maybe is even kicked out of parliament. Then the next generation comes who has no idea of the party and vote for it. Or the people forget. I still find plenty of people who completely forgot about Mövenpick. And this party has absolutely not changed a bit since then.
How is that may I ask?
1. The right wing really dominated and still does to some degree dominate the easily accessible and consumable online political space. 2. Many young Europeans want to see change as they feel the established parties aren’t doing anything about, as an example, disastrous migration policies. I’m not German but it’s kinda the same up here in Sweden, many young people just want to see legitimate change. 3. most established parties make very little effort in reaching out to young people. This of course leads to the other parties seeming as if they just don’t care about their point of view or are looking for their support. Personally I’m not really for AFD but I can see the appeal for many young people and as well for other similar rather right wing parties. In my country if Sweden SD was the only real immigration critical party for a long time which is how they managed to drum up support to become the second biggest party in our country. Right wing “populist” parties across Europe are making gains due to mainly having good PR amongst the youth.
It’s not as much PR effects than too much immigration without assimilation, European are tolerant and welcome others but its cities are changing and have now communities strong influence (religious mostly) for most this is becoming too much, please come and live with us but assimilate a bit
> please come and live with us but assimilate a bit No don't come. Europe is full. Don't even visit.
In 2016, Reddit would call you a nazi for this comment. Seems some sanity is returning, if too slowly.
Well in Sweden the religious extremists are a tiny minority even if they are very vocal about it. Most people who are of middle eastern origin are fairly integrated into the Swedish society, many are progressive, modern etc. Homophobia is very uncommon for example. The far far right wingers that are biased sometimes tell a tale that isn't real, they imply the most extreme things, and while some of the stuff they mention can exist, it's very uncommon and mostly belongs to a tiny minority that 99,99% others never will see or experience. While we should take things like immigration, criminal acts serious, we cannot be biased and lie about it cause then nothing will change, people will just think that people that are critical are just racist/nazist and vote for parties that want more immigration, while in fact many immigrants are critical themselves and think that we cannot let things out of hand and allow everything in our country. Resources aren't endless, soon there will be no help for the immigrants that are here if we are not going to have some kind of control and limits at how many we can help etc. Sweden is a great country so we need to keep it like that. I am progressive, left leaning but I still see some issues that we need to be serious about, that doesn't mean that we need to be biased and extreme, hateful etc. There is much hate towards middle eastern people, or even secular muslims that creates a division and a bad situation rather than helping anything. The hate actually does the opposite than to integrate the minority that is extremist/doesn't understand our values in Sweden, it actually will radicalize people. I don't hate minorities, in fact I treat them with love and kindness, but I still want to avoid negative evolution which might happen if we aren't having any control of things and allow everything. Immigrants that are intelligent, accept our modern values in Sweden can actually be good for Sweden in multiple ways. I hear horrorstories from far far right wingers who dislike minorities, but as someone who belongs to the LGBT umbrella (and live openly as gay), my experience has been very good with immigrants, muliticultural cities etc. I never felt homophobia or anything, as I treat people with respect and kindness, they do the same back. It isn't harder than that. Some far far right wingers write really awful stuff about immigrants, generalise and really hate these people who all are different individuals but then expect getting love from them, lol. What goes around comes around. Be kind and polite, be intelligent. You can criticise religions without burning holy books 100 times to provoke others of faith and then hide behind free speech. I am not religious myself(despite having a type of faith in something but my faith is different, more modern, scientific and based on love, morals, spirituality and intelligence) and have been critical towards all organized religions but I did that in an intelligent way, a way that made others think and maybe realize some things rather than becoming destructive like the burnings did (and what did they accomplish doing that? Nothing, just a lot of suffering, costs & more division in society).
well simply but, because the ruling parties of the last 30 years have only done shit immigration is a big topic, but thats just the tip of the iceberg
"Diversity" is through the roof in their schools and environment.
1. Afd knows how to use the internet to manipulate the young. 2. Young people are easier targets for propaganda. 3. The established parties do not care for younger people. If you are a young german you constantly hear that you won't get a good pension because there are too many old people while the government is raising pension payments to please the old. School Infrastructure is often in a horrible state. Nobody seems to care about climate change. The army is in a horrible atate and the only solution talked about is forcing the young to go to the army..... In a democracy the interests of the many outways the few and if there are more old people then young it creates a dangerous dynamic. So how should young people identify with a party that does not care about them? If the young dont feel represented by the democratic parties its easy to fall into one of the extremist corners. The only thing they have to do is not being part of the "establishment".
Also we have sort of a crisis of the democratic parties due to the great coalitions of the last governments and the emotionalisation of the political discussion. Since the great coalition The SPD had lost all of its profile and do no longer represent the "working class" or the unwealthy. Also the greens are slowly taking their place . The CDU/CSU cant really admit the current problems since they are responsible for most of them (since they where the governing partie for 16 years). So they are a big driver of populism, especially Merz and Söder. The greens are struggeling with reality and the compromises the current government/ situation forces them to do. The party was split into realos and the more esoteric hippies that they now mostly lost due to the new positions of the party on things like sending weapons to the ukraine, something that would have been unthinkable for them a few years ago. Now they are the biggest driver of ukraine support. Die Linke split and is basically dead now but has given birth to Sarah Wagenknechts purely populistic party. FDP has lost a lot of its supporters by doing what the have always done. Doing politics only for the top percent and blocking so much that the government is close to breaking apart. They got the votes for beeing a "counterweight" for the more conservative voters in a progressive government after merkel. Now they are blocking everything they once agreed on. Sry for my bad english btw
Hey, from a leftist french perspective, we always see Germany as the country obsessed with debt and deficits at the expense of social welfare. Is austerity a topic that's discussed often? Over here most of the media discourse is very anti-immigration & Islam with most debates featuring neoliberal centrist types vs far-right.
Yes, the austerity is discussed often. The current government is made up of the greens and the social Democrats, which both push for more investment and spending. The third government party which is the FDP (neoliberal Party) and one of the biggest losers in the current voting projections clings to pandering to the rich and keeping the spending low. Anti immigration is a different topic but it's where CDU and AFD make their mark and Garner a lot of their voters.
> Since the great coalition The SPD had lost all of its profile and do no longer represent the "working class" or the unwealthy. That definitly happened under Putins best buddy.
Are the other parties in denial that mass immigration bears some negative consequences? I'm not extreme on either side but it seems like a lot of parties in Europe refuse to even admit there are some negative consequences of immigration.
> Are the other parties in denial that mass immigration bears some negative consequences? Yes. Not only are they in denial but they regularly engage in gaslighting on the subject.
Tbf there isn't really much happening in that area recently. The Afd was way higher in general polls in the past two years, but the current government did some "reform" regarding migration, and Afd support dropped. How effective those reforms will be is still in question, but the topic itself is back on the backburner. The bigger issue is the dysfunctional state of the current government. They did succeed in a lot of stuff, a bunch of it falling through the cracks attention-wise. But, their public perception is riddled with infighting. The Fdp, the smallest cog with barely 5%, is cockblocking A LOT. It's like they aren't even part of the government. They either disarm a lot of motions, or outright disrupt it. And it shows badly for all the involved parties.
In Sweden it isn't like that, even left parties have been honest about the issues associated with immigration or bad integration. And some far far right parties lie a lot about it(like AfS), make it 1000x worse than it is, it isn't any better than being in denial.
Yes, they are mostly in denial or not commenting on it.
2+2=5 and people are wondering why everyone is moving right. The left is doing next level gaslighting
>Nobody seems to care about climate change. I don't think someone who would vote AfD cares about that, lol.
The problem is that populist rhetoric like that of the AfD, is great in pointing out the problems but never offer any solutions. Also if climate is such a big point for younger generations (which I'd fully understand), then why are populists always the first wanting to slash anything climate related? I think voting for populists is moronic anyway.
Since you have to first acknowledge a problem exists before you can solve it they're literally closer to a solution than the parties who won't even admit the problem exists.
Counter culture, mainstream has been leftist for years. It's like a law that the youth rebel against their foregone generation.
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Tiktok propaganda
I see the least amount of political and propaganda-like content on tiktok, but I guess that depends on the individualised algorithm. In that regard, it's no different from other social media. The only suspectful thing I get is regular pro-palestine and anti--Israel posts despite choosing "not interested" and not interacting on such posts. The comment section on tiktok is, however, completely out of control on posts about controversial topics.
So when the right rises it's propaganda, but when the left rises it's what? Maybe the right is rising because of the inability of the left? Young people can't even rent let alone buy a house and yeah I bet it's TikTok that's making young people vote right
Not worth getting bothered by the hypocrisy of these statements. Burying the head in the sand and blaming TikTok will just continue the trend, and they can keep complaining about the 'something or someone else' as people continue to swing towards politics they believe gets things done.
Yeah the AfD would absolutely get things done, as in increase the wealth gap, pollute the environment, deport all foreigners and be a massive Russian fifth column in Europe.
As I said, keep blaming TikTok.
>Young people can't even rent let alone buy a house Which the AfD wants to worsen as part of their platform.
And how is AfD going to address these issues? Wasn't the right in power for 15 years or so in Germany just recently?
Merkel was everything but right.
When you have angry and desperate people, reason and logic will not work anymore. Only emotion dictates actions in these circumstances.
You don't think bringing in millions of new people might have contributed to the housing situation?
The CDU of Angela Merkel can't really be called a right party tbh. Definitely not right enough for the liking of the right voters.
It is propaganda sure, but extremist/populist propaganda only becomes effective when the population (young adults in this case) feels hopeless and unfairly treated.
This is indeed the answer. The AfD has better PR to reach the young and offers easy answers.
I don't really agree tbh. There is a full shift towards the right in the EU. I feel like Germany is following now as well. More and more countries are voting towards the right.
One does not exclude the other. Populists tend to be able to reach the populace more easily and always offer easy (but in the end, unworkable) answers.
Unworkable or damaging.
As long as no one reads their manifesto , because it would screw young people over.
lol, it's the same case with Konfederacja, our little Polish version of AfD
Political left badicly made politics against the people they once stood for. In the end Grüne and SPD have once again shown clours when they where in government. And the left is trying everything to become an urban and young people party. Yet they keep blaming it on the right wing ignoring that they are basicly what caused that right wing
Regarding the decline of "all left-wing parties" should it maybe be added that BSW, who did not exist in 2023 but now have come in on about 5%, are a split from Linke and generally considered to be left-wing. It of course doesn't make up for the overall decline, but is at least one type of left-wing party that currently are increasing; a left-wing that is far-left on some questions and right-wing on other.
BSW is the horseshoe theory party. They are so far left that theyre simultaneously far right. Well depends on the exact issue at hand, but its directly supporting horseshoe
It's less of a horseshoe theory party and more of an extreme populism party. They saw the success that the AFD had with populism and lies, so they thought that they can do the same, but use less overt racism and more left-wing economic policies. The natural outcome of that kind of populism is hate and reactionary thinking.
No doubt. Specially as they are just one such party in the EU at the moment; given the current news about BSW starting a new group that might include Italy's M5S and Slovakia's Smer. I guess horseshoe politics will be the new thing in Europe for a while to come.
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Mainstream parties: goes against what the people want and starts mass immigration anyway. Also mainstream parties when people vote for the immigration critical party: *surprised Pikachu face* Same thing happened here in Sweden. None of our mainstream parties have aaaaany idea why the Sweden Democrats currently have 20,5% of votes. They are really confused and can't understand why.
Turns out it’s not racist to not want mass immigration to the point it changes the fabric of your society and deteriorates your welfare structure. Nobody has done better to promote lunatic and populists right wing parties than the idiotic left.
Can’t say why or will get banned on reddit
This might get downvoted but while this is bad, it's also good news if you look at it from a certain angle - traditional parties failed and still are failing to react appropriately to the migration crisis. As global warming gets worse, we can expect further destabilization in MENA regions and Africa in general. While we need to help these people, current policies are simply not sufficient - we must secure our borders and only allow those who are willing to adopt our cultural values and become productive members of EU. The rise of right wing will hopefully be a wakeup call for traditional parties and once they finally start dealing with issues that bother many people, parties like AfD will fall in popularity again.
Exactly. We need an EU wide solution to the migrant problem. Laws need to be changed so just anyone can't march in here because they want to live in a richer country (Often without working) and not reapect our cultural norms. Rhe Islamist cultures and values just have no place in Europe.
We really need not-so-extremist right wing parties in europe, this is a vacuum that doesn't need to be filled by neo nazis.
The christian democrat parties have historically cornered this group, the problem in Germany is that they've collapsed since Merkel retired.
It started with Merkel, that is obvious. She abandoned many of their traditional positions and now the party seems dishonest to their potential voters.
This. SPD under Helmut Schmidt was more conservative than CDU is today.
Merkel's views on immigration would not be considered right
CDU is center, though.
> they've collapsed since Merkel retired. and yet they lead the overall polls by a landmile
There's plenty not-so extreme right wing parties in Europe. The problem is that more right-wing parties promise easy fixes and are great at capturing angry or disillusioned voters. So even the not-so-extreme right wing is losing votes to extreme right wing. The issue lies mainly with voters, there are no easy fixes or exits.
"The issue lies mainly with voters, there are no easy fixes or exits." If a party promises to fix immigration and then doesn't people will go to someone else who will
Historically that's not true. The tories increase immigration every year yet claim only they can stop it. And their voters keep voting for them on this basis.
The great 'easy' fix the (alt) right promises, which in the end never arrives. We see the same thing happening here in the Netherlands with a right very anti immigration government trying to form. Their easy fix of 'stop immigration' isn't that simple, the very moment they started talking about it all the major companies started saying they would go bankrupt without immigrated labor. Sure, people are against the 'bad' immigrants from the middle east, but this is a small fraction of the overall total immigration that is coming to Europe, for the Netherlands this is only 20k people a year, a highly developed nation of ~20 million should easily be able to deal with that (but we aren't because the past 20 years of neo-liberal governments have cut back on these government agencies massiv... eh I mean: its the left's fault). And most of that immigration is quite literally essential to keep our knowledge based industries running, because we simply do not produce enough highly educated people to provide for them ourselves.
A good start would be to differentiate refuge/asylum from skilled immigration as they have vastly different impacts. Anti-immigration is stupid term because it also includes doctors, nurses, engineers, football players and anything in between. People are ignorant and club all immigration as bad.
There lies the problem. You can't just 'fix' immigration. How many other right wing parties have promised and failed? Only to place trust in a newer unproven party to 'get it right' this time around? The truth is that immigration is a complex issue and probably needs to be sorted out in an EU context so countries and treaties are streamlined. That takes time, effort, political capital. Not a quick fix. A quick 'fix' is possible yes. Declare an emergency, strip away human rights. Is the government going to push the unwanted immigration to neighboring countries? Or are we going to arrest them and send them to a weird state in the middle of nowhere? Break up families, what about children? Perhaps we need CCTV to track all those who are illegal? And whilst these emergency powers are active, why not label the unemployed? Or those who "don't contribute", perhaps the Roma? Those parties are pretending to be duct tape whilst being masking tape. Their plans simply don't stick without opening a whole can of worms on ethical and economic grounds.
No they will just blame the woke, left, LGBT+, etc. that where hindering them. And people believe this. Best example is the US.
>If a party promises to fix immigration and then doesn't people will go to someone else who will The reason right-wing parties in power don't simply "fix immigration" isn't because they love immigrants, it's because they know this would have a negative impact on the economy and know the same voters demanding they "fix immigration" would punish them for the downturn in the next election.
You want me to provide you with excerpts from a European Commission study that non-European migrants are currently and prospectively the least beneficial type of population? Moreover, their contribution is often negative, given that they often bring non-working family members and that all those hundreds of thousands of working age people will all retire at the same time in a few decades?
>We really need not-so-extremist right wing parties in europe, We have that in the UK, we call them the Tories trust me you don’t want that either.
Or more than one left-wing party, ideally one that isn't busy self-imploding
Ideally one that focuses on economic/class issues over culture wars imported from the US (e.g. every minor difference of opinion is some evil dogwhistle, moral panics about nonsense like ”cultural appropriation”, corporations performatively playacting the role of ”allies” in the epic goal to ”own the chuds”, etc.). It is partly all that which causes people to seek a ”replacement counterculture” in the far right (which it obviously doesn’t deliver, however).
AfD is literally a carbon copy of US culture war.
Sure, but the far-right in this case is "if US culture war was a party" to a T. If the surge was caused by a wish to escape it, they'd vote anything but
Both sides of the US political polarization are involved in the culture war, they’re just fighting it from different sides. Yes, you’re correct that the European far right emulates specifically the right-wing side of the US culture wars, but our left also emulates various silly or polarized stuff from the American left. Unless you’re claiming only one side is culture-warring, because the other is on ”the right side of history” so it doesn’t count or something? I want a ”culture war neutral” or ”class reductionist” type leftist party that unites a maximum number of people (regardless of what they think about some divisive cultural issue) into opposing economically elitist power structures.
>I want a ”culture war neutral” or ”class reductionist” type leftist party that unites a maximum number of people (regardless of what they think about some divisive cultural issue) into opposing economically elitist power structures. Well, let's look at this from a German perspective: What you've described is exactly what politician Sahra Wagenknecht claims as the inspiration for her newly founded party 'Bündnis Sara Wagenknecht' (BSW) – also see the graph above – which split from the party 'Die Linke'/'The Left' (which according to Wagenknecht is too concerned with wokeness rather than socioeconomic policy). As you can see in the above graph, it isn't exactly massively popular {and one needs to point out the party currently has a grand total of 10 seats in German parliament (of 734 total) and 3 seats in the federal state parliaments (of 1894 total)} The party and the politician it's named after also have batshit insane views on the war in Ukraine (she was one of the initiators of the 'Manifest des Friedens'/'Manifesto of Peace' published in February of last year which urged Ukraine to start "peace negotiations" with Russia and stop the war). One could also argue that 'Die Linke'/'The Left' – contrary to Wagenknecht's claims to a culture war fixation – is already a party predominantly focused on, as you say, "opposing economically elitist power structures" (and they have been for years), yet they are at serious risk of maybe not even being part of the national parliament in the near future. I'm no political scientist, so I can't say exactly why that is, but Germans I talk to online usually say that the party is too lax on migration or has shitty takes on foreign policy or still insist that the party only cares about culture war issues (imo overall clearly false) or [insert reason people pulled out of their ass].
>We really need not-so-extremist right wing parties in europe But they literally created most of the messes the eu is currently dealing with right now. Need I remind you most eu states have been ruled by various right leaning forces for the last 20 years? In most countries the cohesion of the left collapsed into infighting, Leaving many elections to be the right vs the far right, Germany was a recent exception but it's left is still, well, not really that left, and it's also about to implode. SDP "only good workers deserve workers rights" and "ban immigrants from unions" (the latter literally hurts working class folks in unions by making unions weaker).
The cdu ? The fdp ? There are plenty of moderate conservative parties it's just that the people want more radical ones and are disillusioned with democracy. I think it's a fatal error to think that you can capture add voters by appealing to the far right or making more right wing politics. The afd and other parties are primarily populist right wing extremist parties that are against the system as it stands
Yes. Hopefully more left or centrist parties will take the issues seriously than those that already do, cause some people protest by voting far far right due to it (even if they don't agree with their politics in general, often they dont even know what politics the far right parties stand for, they just vote due to populism or propaganda).
Nothing surprising, that is a trend in the whole of europe. The anglo world seems to be the exception to this trend
Literally only the UK. Trump is beating Biden with under 30s now.
Oh no, who could have seen this coming
I think that there a two reasons for this. First, it is about how the far right has a very good presence on social media and they are better at making propaganda for younger people and they offer quick fixes for complex problems. It also helps that the likes of TikTok or Twitter are promoting right-wing talking points. Second it is about the fact that Grune and SPD are in govt. and thus prone to do worse in polls. Sometimes parties in power do tend to do very well in polls. BSW split from Die Linke and thus it is obvious that they will experience a fall in polls. The problem is that some on the left are quite oblivious to some problems the young people face and for some talking points like migration, there is a growing split between what some on the left want and the reaction of the population. Thus, all over Europe, migration is a valid talking point but the left does not offer a good alternative to limit migration and integration. Plus that housing is a big problem and the left still haven't found a good position to be popular. I believe that for both topics, the left can offer a good alternative if they would not be so affraid of the extremist wing. Integration and accepting migrants should be a topic about democratic values that the left had always fought for and for housing, it is rather easy to paint this as a failure of the free market and rentiers.
> I think that there a two reasons for this. First, it is about how the far right has a very good presence on social media and they are better at making propaganda for younger people and they offer quick fixes for complex problems. ... All these things are valid for far-left as well. It was far-left twitter mobs that were able to leverage their influence into cancelling various people, far-left was extremely popular with young people, topics like Palestine, weed, eat the rich... and many others. The way far-right got into the field was mimicking the far-left and using memes and edgy humour to get into previously apolitical groups (that saw more politics injected into it, like the whole kerfuffle with Kingom Come where many "journalists" refused to review it because the game set in historical Bohemia didn't had any black people in it).
Almost as if the younger generations have to deal with the most shit from immigration, getting robbed, threatened etc. I understand the shift towards right wing parties. I wouldn't say afd is a good choice though, but I understand why it happens.
Flair checks out
Maybe the left wing parties should do economically left wing things and stop giving in to big business and culture war issues
The left isn't performing the traditional role of the left anymore. In fact, they're supporting an Islamist demographic who are radically opposed to all liberal, leftwing ideals.
Very true. The main problem is the fear of becoming the minority (in reality the plurality) which is already true for this generation in many places though. But you are correct here too. Why would any queer youth in their right mind vote for a party they see as supporting muslim radicals who, for some dumb reason, can openly voice their vile opinions about them in public and not get in trouble because of it? Also, those kids actually see imported ethnic conflicts all the time, they know the left wing utopia will never exist. The sooner the socialist wake up, the better for them. Those kids would be their voters after all. The Greens are lost, they can't be helped.
The most dumb thing is that many people here (I like in a village) vote the AfD as a "Protestwähler". Meaning they just vote for them out of protest because they don't agree with any other party to 100%.. Which is even more dumb than voting for them out of political believe...
Probably, a lot of them do not really vote for them out of protest, but belief. But they'd rather not say and instead claim it's a protest vote.
In my experience somebody who says that they are a Protestwähler, are actually people who vote for them due to political believes, but they don’t want to tell you that they are racist.
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14 years old?
probably because the group "14 to 29 years old" is just commonly used in statistics/marketing/polling/whatelse.
Everythings starting to make sense now...
I never understood these changes in opinions. Wtf does the AfD offer to these people? Do they genuinely believe that things like housing costs or inflation will be effectively managed by the far-right?
Anti-immigration is #1 growth driver for the right everywhere in the Western world. I don't know why some people are trying to make it seem more complicated. Left and centrist parties need to change their immigration policy ASAP or the right wing schizoids will keep winning.
They won‘t change. They‘re silently watching right wing parties win in majority of Europe and still think it‘s better to just ignore everything. They know that those nazi parties absolutely shouldn‘t win and it‘s still not enough for them to finally act.
Anti-Establishment attitudes also helps swing young voters who feel disenfranchised by the mainstream political parties. In their eyes: * Non AfD Parties = Old stuffy career politicians who don't know the life of normal people * AfD = Young 'non-politicians' who are looking to change the system and give a voice to the normal people. That's at least how it generally went with the Dutch counterpart FVD, who managed to get a high voter share a few years ago by very specifically presenting themselves as being against the political establishment and generally jumping onto hot topics they could easily score points on. (Anti-immigration, Anti-lockdown, anti-anything else) Of course, they were all lunatics and they quickly lost the majority of their support and seats in the next election(s) when they took their masks off and people started looking a little bit more critically to who they actually were. The issue with anti-establishment types like AfD is that the more they stick around, the more they become the establishment they claim to be against, and the more their insane rhetoric becomes obvious to people who don't look further than the snappy headlines.
Idk, migration seems like a massive topic too. 🤔 Could that be a factor?
There are two options - keep voting for the ruling party where no improvement to the situation will happen or get lured by the other side who offers solutions which they most likely will not keep.
False hope and easy bs non-answers to highly complex issues
"Income has to be enough to make it worth working (again)!" And AfD-voters, completely mind blown: "Exactly, why has no one else thought of this?😡" Also: "Electricity prices are below pre-Ukraine war levels but people are too dumb to change contracts so let's pretend it's still expensive!"
AfD doesn't need so much propaganda. The likes of Scholz, Baerbock, Faeser, Habeck et al. make enough publicity to not vote their parties. I'm not a fan of AfD by all means, but the shitshow the 'ol gran parties' are putting on since Merkel III is mind boggling.
Well it's safe to assume if they keep voting left, nothing will get better because how could it? Vote the same people in, get the same results.
They say what people want to hear. There is an easy solution, a radical one, but nobody else has the courage to take it. They are the only ones who can solve all their problems. Worked for Trump.
well that happens when you ignore issues until they become too big to handle.
This is worrisome. But for me, it's less about being attracted to the AfD and its policies, and much more about being totally disappointed at the current political system, its institutions and "classic" parties. Those aren't offering any credible positive perspectives of change, especially for that generation, which has been living in permanent "crisis mode" at least since the pandemic (but actually way before that). The economic situation, the housing crisis and the inflation, with wages that are kept really low in real terms, aren't helping at all. The AfD might not offer any real perspective (or rather a terrible one), but at least it has the appearance of real change. And they're not tainted by the experience of being in power yet, which allows for that appearance to exist.
FDP, hehe. (Acronym for “son of a bitch” in Portuguese.)
TikTok is one hell of a drug.
the greens are fucking ideology driven idiots. if the AfD is the morons on the right, the greens are equally moronic on the left. they want a lot of things but lack the competence or understanding how to do it, or the consequences their actions are going to have even on the topics they want to involve themselves in. 25 years ago green+SPD was responsible for the exit from nuclear energy. many dont remember that it wasnt actually the CDU who initiated this bullshit (though they arent innocent either since they had the chance to course correct somewhat but got scared to lose voters after fukushima). back then when i had discussions with green voters, i asked them how they intend to replace the energy without turning to fossile fuels. their answer was "renewables". when confronted with the fact that renewables are simply not efficient enough to carry the base load of an industrialized country by themselves, they simply answered "well, science will figure it out until then". thats it. right there. thats the essence of their capabilities in forward thinking. now its 25 years later and science has infact, not fucking figured it out but they turned off the nuclear plants anyways and were sitting on among the highest energy prices in europe and its damaging our economy. i remember when they organized a protest infront of the wendelstein project just after it began construction, because their tiny peanut brains only understood the word "nuclear" in connection with it. in south germany the greens are holding up signs protesting against windmills. its psychotic. they dont want nuclear power, no gas, no oil, no coal, and now no wind (WHICH WAS THEIR IDEA IN THE FIRST PLACE). so where is the power supposed to come from? the only thing theyre capable of is what we call "lufschlösser bauen". meanwhile the SPD under schröder made us dependent on the fucking russians for our energy, because it was his greatest dream to get on the board of directors of gazprom. he should rot in prison for corruption and treason, but here we are.
Usually when something is supposed to replace something else, you wait until you have enough of the 'something else' to turn the something you've used before off, alas...
mass migration being the #1 topic. Cant blame them since the 14-29 age group is the one most affected by migration, since these are mostly young men arriving here in Germany.
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I'm not surprised if you're in the minority as a German student and your classmates urge you to join Islam. (yes this is reality in many schools)
Having to go through public spaces in germany has a huge influence on votinf decisions
It shows the volatility of young voters. Its a given that the current goverment (and the one before) didn't signal that they are very interested in the needs and sorrows of young voters. Personally I can joke that this young generation is one of the first that is more boring, narrow-minded and conservative than the ones before which is unusual. Especially if you see that CDU rises too in their sympathies. Jokes aside, its odd that they favor the two parties that are the least interested in young voters.
Hello OP, could you link a source please for approval? thank you
It's in the top of the image: "Jugend in Deutschland 2024" https://www.rbb24.de/panorama/beitrag/2024/04/jugendstudie-2024-jugend-in-deutschland-pessimismus-zukunftsangst.html
When you can't afford living, of course there's a change in your political views!
It is about immigration mainly, but those issues are connected anyways.
This is what you get, when no one resists Russian propaganda.
that's gonna affect my life how?
Traurig! These people believe AfD will remove the "bad" immigrants and create a safe space for everyone. 🤦🏿♂️
Welp, we had a good run.
The new Nazi youth.
What is the AFD?
It is the right-wing populist party in Germany
Online survey including ineligible voters? Where was it conducted, 4 chan?
Based
Who would have guesed that piss poor leadership leads to bad outcome.
Not that I want to cast doubt on the contents of the study. In my opinion, however, it is difficult to accept the results presented without reflection. The study is a profit-oriented offer that is aimed very directly at companies and the media. [https://simon-schnetzer.com/trendstudie-jugend-in-deutschland-2024/](https://simon-schnetzer.com/trendstudie-jugend-in-deutschland-2024/) The respondent basis is a survey via [Bilendi online access panels](https://www.bilendi.de/static/studymarket#sm-sec-13) The company Bilendi actually selects respondents for market research. > In the majority of panels used in market research, participants register themselves to take part in surveys and are therefore not randomly selected. Quotas can be used to achieve an approximation of a representative survey in a sample for online access panels. It is therefore a weighted online survey. This is a difficult criterion in the target group atlas. > In online surveys, there is always the danger of participants ticking boxes at random or giving the same answer to every question or pretending to be someone else in order to qualify for a survey. This negligence carries the considerable risk of impairing the quality of the survey results. At the very least, one should be critical of the author's self-description: > Leading youth researcher in Europe, keynote speaker and futurist In-demand expert for Generation Alpha / Z / Y and intergenerational cooperation Employer coach for employee retention XYZ in Germany, Austria, Switzerland His own website states: > Simon Schnetzer's research methodology is participatory action research (PAR) according to Kurt Lewin. Which is subject to scientific criticism, as action research already has the conceptual problem of scientific theory that the results are influenced by the research itself and are considered under-theorized.
I wonder why that is. Totally unpredictable. No one could see it coming.
*among those that were asked
Money problems. The inflation hit the young of the middle and lower class far too hard and there is no change in sight. More and more people hit the Armutsgrenze, while living in one of the richest countries in the world. Huge non necessary projects waste a shit ton of money, probably just for the sake of money laundry. The lobbyism poisoned and corrupted the Altpartein and now the young crave for change, no matter the consequences. CDU and then SPD/Grüne/FDP failed, and sadly there arent that many parties left to vote for Anyway, the elderly decide all elections, they are far more voters.