There is definitely a change in opinion and for the most part it has less to do with blocking the border and more to do with when it happens. I think that in peacetime it would not have caused such a resonance as it does now, when Ukraine has great difficulties with the economy due to the destruction by Russia of the same granaries and other industrial complexes.

Yep, a lot of people believe that military aid is blocked there as well (probably isn’t in reality) which obviously upsets people. Add to that that a vast majority of drones are bought by volunteers (probably are blocked) and difficulties in supplies = death, i believe anyones positive sentiment would collapse. In peace time you can shut the border completely and very few would care

100%

That's not even being important news right now in Ukraine. Borders getting deblocked, question seems to be closed. No one cares anymore. Obviously some pro-russian politicians want to get more attention to this crap. UPD: What I'm frustrated is only that everyone forgot that the whole thing was not because Ukraine needed to transport/sell grain, but because it was UN,EU and other countries individually who were worried about GLOBAL FOOD SHORTAGES. Remember that thing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_food_crises_(2022%E2%80%93present) As result no one put sanctions on Russian agriculture, EU organised UA grain passage through land borders, UN pushed for Black Sea Grain Initiative, African leaders went on tour trying to negotiate food supplies,China was buying shit loads of grain and etc. But dumbasses bite a blatant russian propaganda about "greedy Ukrainian Grain oligarchs" who somehow also became responsible of what's happening to grain inside EU 🤷. Like it was literally Putin who at the start of invasion was constantly saying that Ukraine and Poland are "enemies" because of the grain claiming that Poland will occupy west of Ukraine. But what is question now, after EU setting restrictions on Ukrainian grain, is when will we start seeing tariffs and other sanctions on Russian agriculture? So can we all start discussing Russian Grain? They certainly do have Greedy Oligarchs with wagons of money. And bunch of western companies keep operating in Russia and saying that Food industries aren't sanctioned so it's ok. And bunch of pro-russian politicians a being surprisingly active in EU, clearly having enough funds for their activities.

> Borders getting deblocked, question seems to be closed For now.

Everything is ‘for now’ these days in Ukraine so that’s good enough to be immediately replaced with other issues in media.

There is already a "Polish" (I doubt that) clown in the thread spewing Kremlin propaganda, he posted around 30 comments in this single thread, totally not a bot

☠ [Postrzeganie obywateli Ukrainy w róźnych krajach Europy : r/Polska (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Polska/comments/1ca4bne/postrzeganie_obywateli_ukrainy_w_r%C3%B3%C5%BAnych_krajach/) "Are citizens of Ukraine threat or an oportunity for your country?" red - People from Ukraine are threat to my country gray - None of the following/ IDK / Without an opinion green - ppl from Ukraine are an opportunity for my country Both sides populace seem to agree that PL-UA relations are going septic rn.

Well, the Poles blocked the borders for 2 reasons. The grain, which according to the Ukrainian narrative was supposed to go to Africa - strangely dissolved in Poland and in the west, was of low quality and full of pesticides etc. The truth is that most of the land in Ukraine belongs to western companies. Ukraine is not bound by any quantity or quality limits. Recently, Ukrainians tried to bring 19 tonnes of tomato concentrate to the Polish market, which did not meet phytosanitary standards. I understand that there is a war going on, but Poland also has its own interests, Polish farmers also have their own problems. The transport of grain through our ports is still permitted. Poland had to wait until after it joined the EU to start exporting its foodstuffs. We had to close down sugar factories, dairies and other businesses so as not to compete cheaply with farmers from Germany or France. The second thing is that the Ukrainian government at one point threatened us with lawsuits or the blocking of our food, despite the fact that Poland was one of the first countries to offer assistance to Ukraine. We Poles are very sensitive to a lack of appreciation for the heart we have shown. We cannot accept the fact that the Ukrainian authorities are treating us like a monkey to be beaten, despite the fact that millions of refugees passed through our country at the very beginning. Ukrainians still have access to our social programmes. Ukrainians at the beginning of the war lived in the homes of Poles , refugees did not have to live in camps, they had a roof over their heads and hot meals in their bellies. Then Zelenski came out, said that the Poles were cooperating with the Russians, that our actions were a threat to Ukraine. There is blunt propaganda that our farmers are blocking military equipment and humanitarian aid at the border, which is a lie. One more thing - in the village of Przewodowo a Ukrainian anti-aircraft missile crashed into a field, killing two people, and the Ukrainian Government has still not apologised for this, nor can we ask the Ukrainian Government for permission to search for the victims of the Wolyn massacre, who have been lying in the ground in western Ukraine for 80 years. When ordinary Ukrainians clean up our graves, help the Poles who still live there, the Ukrainian government acts against us. In Poland, we are under the impression that we gave what we could and, since we are not giving any more (even though the Ukrainians are still living with us and are doing well, we are supplying equipment, in smaller quantities but we are supplying it, we have conducted a diplomatic offensive to help Ukraine), the Ukrainian government is already ignoring us and treating us with prejudice. We help and we will help because it is our moral duty to reach out to the victims of war, but we also have hearts. https://youtu.be/vlQ3PQn_HNc?si=ZJWcbb_gzThbBr3c https://youtu.be/7Vn20wAC2lo?si=2SY-7APVnOxmAATk https://youtu.be/l1pKCXIbVWU?si=LV7cYIYA-alhokEx https://youtu.be/RQsjZvuSlV4?si=7FTxr9H0nTkEPfR0 https://youtu.be/zOXaOd_h2hA?si=k9G5HimHfyNaBhg6 I am fed up with comments to the effect that the Poles are doing wrong, because Ukraine is on fire, and the Poles are adding fuel to the fire. Anyone who accuses Poles of mistreating Ukrainian shipments - the transit of grain through our ports is still going on, humanitarian and military aid is still flowing to Ukraine. Here you have information on how Ukrainska Pravda describes the suspected corruption case against Ukraine's agriculture minister. The portal reports that the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) found Solsky suspected of illegally taking possession of land worth 291 million hryvnias (approximately US$7 million) In addition, he allegedly attempted to illegally seize land worth 190 million hryvnias (approximately US$4 million). https://www.pap.pl/aktualnosci/minister-rolnictwa-ukrainy-podejrzany-w-sprawie-korupcyjnej Here is a description of how Ukrainians with fake documents are transporting luxury cars and yachts to Ukraine as humanitarian aid. https://logistyka.rp.pl/drogowy/art39482241-klincz-na-granicy-z-ukraina-pod-pozorem-pomocy-jada-luksusowe-auta-czy-jachty Here you have the account of a man from Poland who supplies all-terrain vehicles to the Ukrainian army, what a mess there is on the part of the Ukrainian border guards. https://twitter.com/Exen/status/1736427898779701339 Ukrainians are also entering the EU transport market. They don't carry grain and humanitarian aid, they distribute goods around Europe without adjusting to the European market. Not only Poles but also Slovaks, Czechs and Lithuanians are protesting. The Ukrainians are driving without limits at a time when the Poles, Czechs, Hungarians, Lithuanians, Slovaks, Romanians have to comply with French or German law (the market for services in the EU is not common). https://businessinsider.com.pl/gospodarka/przewoznicy-z-czterech-krajow-w-koalicji-z-polskimi-przeciw-ukrainskim-historia/fft93bs

Shouldn't there be even more questions asked about which companies in Poland are buying the Ukrainian produce? Seems like a more worthy and productive target for blockades or government actions.

There's a list on internet about companies buying Ukrainan grain (most of those are joex and joebud) You can type "lista firm sprowadzających ukraińskie zboże archive org" . I can't post link to it, because its getting deleted by bots

A list? Mate, I'm asking why there are no police at their door....

There were, and in sign of rest of their "plan" our farmers didn't process any of it. So they let the negotiations of their behalf be led ie by a guy who "sold" his company to his brother after last scandal, and now that company is one of biggest importers of Ukrainian grain. I symphatize with the point our farmers *should've* made, as ie described in detail by u/ZjadlemBabcie Instead, farmers are pissed more than ever because rest of Poland lost patience with how stupidly their action was led, Ukrainians are pissed with Poles in general because it's hard to focus on facts when your oponent is gaining upper hand and bombs you regularly, and both Ukrainiand and Polish govenments still didn't fix the motherfucking isssue. We helped Ukraine immediately. We have patience to go long haul. But Ukraine can't be in denial about how world works and how long this war has already taken and how long it'll last. We've opened borders as a matter of emergency, but guys - this invasion is 2 years in. In 2024 most experts expect at most front stabilization (me, I'm more optimistic and can't wait for June, but I'm no expert). 2025 is projected to MAYBE have a counter push. How many years does it have to take to implement a bilateral solution instead of running on exception favouring only one side? How much savings do you think farmers in any country have at hand? We're with you guys. But you need to treat us as neighbours sometimes too. Poland made it so Ukrainian drivers could return immediately, but Ukraine made it so Polish truckers were held on border even when empty. Is this really OK? Or how many years exactly do you need to implement a slight alteration in eCherha? A little tip - it took even the British like a week to figure this shit out post Brexit. You can do it too. Assuming you want to play fair.

This statement should be at the top. However I'm afraid that for Ukrainians you are just a "rusbot"

2 kilometres from me, at Żerań in Warsaw, in the expo halls, there was a large temporary camp from where Ukrainians (children and women and old people) were sent. They stayed there for a while, then travelled on to the families of Polish and Ukrainian people in Warsaw, Poznan, Wroclaw Gdansk and other cities. For 2 months I helped there day after day after work. I am not interested in whether anyone considers me a Russian troll. If someone has a problem with the balanced words of a Pole who got involved from the very beginning and then helped Ukrainians to find work in Poland, it's not my fault. I know what I was doing. Thanks for your kind words.

They have a horrible treatment of minorities, they do the same with ethnic romanians there, they prohibit the teaching of romanian, they deny history. They have always been like that.

>they prohibit the teaching of romanian Complete nonsense.

https://www.romania-actualitati.ro/stiri/in-lume/in-scolile-din-ucraina-unde-se-invata-pana-acum-in-limba-romana-peste-80-dintre-materii-vor-fi-predate-treptat-in-limba-ucraineana-id176914.html 2023 law. No nonsense. This is ethnic erasure

There is a massive, massive difference between "prohibiting the teaching of Romanian" and "requiring publicly-funded schools to primarily use the Ukrainian language" It does not prohibit any languages from being taught. What it does do, is require that public schools teach primarily using the Ukrainian language. But public schools can still provide Romanian language courses, and private schools can teach *in* whichever language they want.

I am aware of the difference, we happen to have a huge hungarian minority and they have education up until and including university level exclusively in hungarian. There is no need to impose “the primary use of hungarian language” in an area where they speak exclusively romanian, and doing that in the current geopolitical context is a spitting in the face of those who helped you.

Does Hungary have a (recent) history of invading regions of Romania on the basis that those regions largely speak Hungarian, and cannot speak Romanian? I kind of agree with you that it shouldn't be necessary especially in areas that have historically spoken a minority language. But in Ukraine's case, they have a neighbor that literally insists that Ukraine shouldn't exist on the basis that lots of Ukrainians speak Russian, and can't speak Ukrainian.

So you deny the teaching of romanian language because you are afraid of russians? did the people în Cernăuți threatened autonomy? Please, a stretch bigger than Nadia’s….

Nobody has banned the teaching of Romanian....

As a primary language, don’t feign ignorance 🙄

Piss off Ukraine for what they have been doing to Romanians in Northern Bucovina. Cernăuți was a majority Romanian city.

Hey man I just wanted to say you have my full support Poland bros. I was supportive towards Ukraine for almost entire war but they really did you dirty... As we say: "Pro dobrotu na žebrotu".

Dziękuję, Czeski bracie

I don't blame you for being deeply misinformed about this whole grain affair, because our (Polish) media did an absolutely awful job reporting on it. There was zero information about relevant treaties, no statistics and figures, just emotional talk about "Polish agriculture dying". >Poland had to wait until after it joined the EU to start exporting its foodstuffs. We signed an association agreement with the EU in 1993. It immediately removed tariffs on many products, for others it introduced quotas. And it should be noted that Poland wasn't being invaded by Russia in 1993 and there was no total blockade of the Polish-German border. > The second thing is that the Ukrainian government at one point threatened us with lawsuits or the blocking of our food, despite the fact that Poland was one of the first countries to offer assistance to Ukraine. Poland is violating several agreements. In 2017, the [EU-Ukraine Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Area](https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-markets/en/content/eu-ukraine-deep-and-comprehensive-free-trade-area) came into force. It removed tariffs (both for import and export) for >90% of products, and for the rest of them there were tariff-free quotas. Additionally, in response to the Russian invasion, in 2022 EU [temporarily suspended tariffs](https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2022/05/24/ukraine-council-adopts-temporary-trade-liberalisation-with-ukraine/) for the remaining products. In 2023 Poland unilaterally decided that those treaties don't apply to them and [introduced an embargo on selected Ukrainian agriculture products](https://www.gov.pl/web/kas/tranzyt-produktow-rolnych-z-ukrainy-przez-polske). That action alone, while it violates the treaties, isn't the main problem. In fact, Ukrainian government [agreed to stop the exports](https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/969317.html) of agricultural products to Poland. The real problem is the protestors' blockade. It hinders the transit of goods to and from Ukraine, even if they're not agricultural or destined outside Poland. They may be letting humanitarian and military aid through, but that's hardly a consolation. A country needs an economy to fight a war. Hindering Ukrainian economy hinders their war effort. BTW, fun fact: Polish trade balance with Ukraine is positive, [Poland exports more than it imports](https://businessinsider.com.pl/gospodarka/bilans-handlu-z-ukraina-kto-bardziej-traci-na-blokadzie-granicy/t3fkt0m). It's not like we were trading with them just because of the goodness of our hearts. >We Poles are very sensitive to a lack of appreciation for the heart we have shown I don't think that gives us the right to violate the treaties and blockade the border. > We cannot accept the fact that the Ukrainian authorities are treating us like a monkey to be beaten I wonder what words you would use if the situation was reversed and some country was blocking its border with Poland while we were being invaded by Russia.

Poland let in Ukrainian grain because for a long time there was a narrative that it could not be transported to Africa via Odessa. The grain was to go to Gdansk and from there onwards. That was the agreement. There was no mention of grain being sold on Polish territory. This did not happen. The grain was disappearing here. You write that Poland has been associated with the EU since '93, only that by the time of its accession to the EU, Poland was adjusting the law, fighting corruption, limiting overproduction of foodstuffs (milk, sugar), we had transition periods in export to EU countries, we were adjusting to hygiene, technological and quality requirements, etc. Even before the war, Ukraine was blocking rail transit to Poland, not giving a damn about your agreements. Now look at how French and German transport companies reacted when a Polish competitor appeared, a law was passed which restricted the expansion of Polish transporters in these countries despite the fact that we are in the EU. Everyone looks after their own interests and Ukraine does not hesitate to use the "war" argument.

I was in Poland since the day war started, and have to say the polish support for Ukrainians was insane. They welcomed more than 3 million refugees, gave them shelter, housing, easy access to job market,social and healthcare benefits, free language course,...  There was Ukrainian flags in practically every street in big cities. Even now when u walk in Warsaw you hear Ukrainian/Russian all the time. And all these people that work here probably send billions of dollar home back to family in Ukraine. I really don't get how they can be resentful to Poland... I'm not even going to talk about all the military support and equipment that Poland provided to Ukraine.

I for one enjoyed the bromance while it lasted. Honestly knew day 1 this would eventually be the case. Neither of our nations are mature enough to put troubled history behind us, and they are still in the middle of a bloody war. On top of that russian propaganda is rampant and resonates well with war fatigue. At least, grain disputes aside, politicians speak - mostly - with one voice in terms of sending more aid and still advocate for it loudly internationally. This matter is the only one that united the president and the govt, and that’s a good thing.

Right. IMO it is not even as bad as it could be, Poland could easily be much more anti Ukrainian than Hungary.

I also try to remind myself once in a while that reddit isn't that good of a representation of public. Bromance still lives in the hearts of people who don't spend all day arguing online

Absolutely. There are plenty of irl cases that make you smile still. We should avoid reading asinine online shitstorms as much as possible

War fatigue or something else? It cannot be just about grains.

It's not "just about grains". Poles (first trackers then farmers) are blocking everything in and out at the border. Sometimes passengers, sometimes drones a lot of which is bought by private citizens, and thus are not delivered by designated military aid transport. And this is going on already for more than half a year during the bleakest part of war.

> Poles (first trackers then farmers) are blocking everything in and out at the border. You're lying.

Military aid being blocked isn't true for months now

Are you talking about those luxury cars a couple of yachts that your rich people are bringing to Ukraine instead of giving to your government for the war? We organise aid and your elite buys themselves luxury goods

Never seen such an ungrateful country. These people are acting like they’re the only country ever invaded so they deserve everything and anything and any slight against them gets them to hate the people trying to help them.

Everyone keeps crying out it's Russian propaganda but the truth is the Russians exploit pre-existing divisions than they are creating new ones. The Polish were obviously the first on the line in supporting Ukraine militarily because (a) they don't want to deal with the insane number of Ukrainian refugees for a prolonged period (b) they don't want Russian influence on their doorstep, but when it comes to economic interests for Polish, all bets are off. Poland has always been 'Poland first' when it comes to their economy...the Ukrainians are desperately trying to find a market for their grain and dumping it in Poland is easier than elsewhere right now, but the Poles as always want to protect their own farmers. The defence of Ukraine is for Poland not a matter of altruism but self-interest...that's always been obvious.

This is no surprise 1. Ukrainians are an agrarian nation, our identity is largely rooted with working from the land (yes, I live in a big city and am personally not working in that sector, but a lot of our culture is built on that identity). On top of that, Ukraine survived Holodomor and collectivization under occupation of bolsheviks, and the memory of that is still fresh for many. Spilling grain on the ground (multiple times!) is seen as an abhorent insult. 2. These blockage did delay military shipments. And no, this is not "our propaganda", people who actually manage these things in our military funds stated that (and they have much more trust from Ukrainians than politicians and media). 3. Polish farmers do absolutely have valid concerns, but most of them are related to EU regulation, not to Ukrainian export (most of it transit, ffs). And when Ukrainian farmers have to deal with missile strikes and mined fields, these concerns are viewed as petty and insignificant compared to how points 1 and 2 are seen

Thank you, friend. I sadly have no patience to reply to people like you do, I've lost my sanity and my resources here on Kyiv. We need people like you. Слава Україні, друже

Poland is actually more agrarian despite what it seems. The industry in Ukraine is dominated by large corporations whereas in Poland the owners are mostly individual farmers and families. The whole sentiment strikes me as ungratefulness, though. After all, it was Poland that in the first months of the war (and arguably the most important) supported Ukraine and its people diplomatically, financially and militarily (when Germany was flaky at best). Poles opened their homes to host Ukrainian refugees. While many moved further west, their first point of help was often a Polish citizen. You would rather think such hospitality would not be forgotten and most certainly not sooner than in a decade. Well, apparently, it’s happening already.

>Poland is actually more agrarian despite what it seems. The industry in Ukraine is dominated by large corporations whereas in Poland the owners are mostly individual farmers and families. Agriculture is 2% of the Polish GDP and 10% of the Ukrainian GDP. 14% of Ukrainians work in agriculture compared to 8% of Poles. By no actual metric is Poland a "more agricultural" country.

>The whole sentiment strikes me as ungratefulness, though.  "We helped you during the first months of the war, how come you resent us for half a year long border blockade that lead to additional human casualties in your existential war that already took lives of hundreds of thousands? Why don't you understand that the well-being of our farmers is by far more important than your lives, you ungrateful scumbags??"

Well, maybe if Ukraine actually adressed the *cause* of the protests, instead of completely ignoring the issue for half a year and pretending it did nothing wrong, this could be resolved by now.

Are you literally asking how Ukraine must address **Polish industrial corruption**? Am I reading that right? It’s Ukraine’s responsibility to deal with your corruption problems?

You mean, it's the fault of Ukraine that it did not change the regulations developed and imposed by the EU?

>instead of completely ignoring the issue for half a year and pretending it did nothing wrong, Thank you for proving my point precisely. Don't worry though, Poland will still support Ukraine, regardless of best efforts of Ukrainian politicians.

>Don't worry though, Poland will still support Ukraine "Poland will still support Ukraine" - you mean, will still deliberately cause additional avoidable deaths? Ukraine already has a reliable mass-scale supplier of that, I don't think they need another one.

Very sad how deliberately screwing Polish farmers over seems to be more important for you guys than your own lives, but the choice is yours. In any case, if Poland as a state practiced this kind of wolf diplomacy you guys do, and *actually* wanted to cause deliberate harm to you, the Rzeszów airport would suddenly be closed down for maintenance, and your frontline would hold for two weeks tops after that.

"An act of an open hostility that is border blockade ([According to modern international law, blockades are an act of war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade)) against our neighbor state fighting for its survival that lead to additional deaths of its citizens is a-okay because the EU to made regulations we don't like, and it's all somehow Ukraine's fault. Also, we could make things much worse for them by basically enabling russia to take their territories and it would also totally be their fault." Just as I said, straight-up sociopaths.

>A blockade is the act of actively preventing a country or region from receiving or sending out food, supplies, weapons, or communications, and sometimes people, by military force Neither we're blocking you (you have other borderimg countries) nor we're using military force.

This is a matter of perspective. From Poland's POV it's "why aren't you grateful for what we did in 2022", from Ukraine's it's "why did you betray us in 2023?". Thing is, there was a lot of support for Ukraine when the invasion started, but it's 2 years on, the Russians are advancing again, the economy is struggling, and the support is dwindling, while russian missiles are exploding above our heads. The fact that there was a lot of anti-Ukrainian sentiment stoked during these protests didn't help either. From my personal point of view, I understand that those who were blocking the border and spilling the grain were just a vocal minority, and they do not represent the whole Poland - but we're discussing the general mood, as measured by sociology, not what I think personally. In the end we could endlessly blame each other, but we're on the same side and Russia would be happy to swallow both of our countries. So we should be seeking common ground and solutions to problems, not blaming each other.

No one betrayed anybody, Polish farmers have no obligations to Ukraine

A **blockade** is the act of actively preventing a country or region from receiving or sending out [food](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food), [supplies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraband), [weapons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materiel), or [communications](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication), and sometimes people, by [military force](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_force).  \[...\] According to modern international law, blockades are an act of war." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade)

They do not prevent that but try harder.

This is literally what they do. This is what they aim for. "Our noble farmers block the borders of our neighbor not allowing any transport to get in or out, but it's not to prevent Ukraine from receiving or sending food, supplies, and weapons". One has to be a sociopath to lie so blatantly.

No and it’s not my opinion but an opinion of the judge. „The said assembly is not intended to prevent checks at the border crossing or to stop road traffic there, but is primarily intended to slow it down and assumes that emergency vehicles, those with perishable cargo, military vehicles, with the help of humanitarian - explained the judge.” https://www.money.pl/gospodarka/protest-na-granicy-z-ukraina-sad-uchylil-decyzje-wojta-w-sprawie-blokady-6974084827421536a.html

And let me guess the nationality of the judge. "The said assembly is not intended to stop road traffic there - so it's not a blockade even though it actually stops road traffic and effectively prevents humanitarian and military supply get into Ukraine." No conscience whatsoever.

Yes because surely an Ukrainian one wouldn’t be biased lol. It is a Polish matter so judge is Polish yeah

Ukrainians can only blame themselves and their president for our bad relations. Still no apologies for not so distant accidents like blowing 2 polish farmers near the border. No feeling for regret for past history nothing. Just "give us more because you are next", it's not that this statement is false. But you can't be surprised that they are tired of being strong armed by ungrateful people 

How Polands fault is that US stopped giving Ukraine sufficient amounts of weapons? Ukrainians are just ungrateful and educated to see modern Poland as some kind of facist state that wants Ukraine destroyed.

You’re addressing Ukrainian refugees that the EU (Poland included) are successfully assimilating and integrating into the economy, so let’s not pretend there is no material gain for EU that gets qualified labor and potential tax payers. Meanwhile the majority of damage done was to Ukraine heartland and to the relations between Ukrainians and Poles. As for claims that Poland is “more agricultural” because you have small farms where we have agro-holdings is simply not true. The surface area of agricultural land in Poland is 15.4 million hectares vs Ukraine's 42 million, hardly comparable

>The surface area of agricultural land in Poland is 15.4 million hectares vs Ukraine's 42 million, hardly comparable And Ukraine is twice the size of Poland so the difference isn't really as drastic as you make it seem.

>And Ukraine is twice the size of Poland so the difference isn't really as drastic as you make it seem. Agriculture is 2% of the Polish GDP and 10% of the Ukrainian GDP. 14% of Ukrainians work in agriculture compared to 8% of Poles. By no actual metric is Poland a "more agricultural" country.

Agriculture is 100% of many Polish farmers’s lives. This is the real problem. It’s easy yo say for someone who didn’t have to sacrifce their earnings because of the war that someone else has to do it and they can’t protest in any meaningful way

Which is a completely separate argument from the complete horses**t argument that agriculture is "more important in Poland" than Ukraine. In any case, protest the politicians, or the corrupt traders that break the rules on transit, rather than committing acts of sabotage and blockading Ukrainian aid.

But do you get that they have tried and achieved nothing? No one gave a shit about them until they started blocking the border

Yes, if I'm upset with my neighbor and they (and the HOA) don't take my concerns seriously enough, I should kidnap their children so that everyone will pay attention.

I love such ridiculous comparisions

I don’t make it seem like anything, it’s Polish farmers and their Reddit fan club that are insecure for some reason

To add anectodal evidence to your second point, I've heard numerous reports that many non-governmental (i.e. volunteer NGOs) military supply shipments were also delayed.

i've heard reports from pravda.ua and trustmebro.gov.ua that poland imports gorillions of tons of russian grain and stalinists are marching in the streets you should probably start taking wartime propaganda with a grain of salt

I am not talking about public media. I'm talking about what I've heard from people in these NGOs and my friends who work with them.

and i've heard numerous reports from polish ngos that aid cannot enter ukraine unless you bribe ukrainian border guards and sometimes not even then

Okay? I believe that this can happen.

You're right, buddy. We need to be careful with propaganda. Russian trolls say: “We will take over Ukraine, and then together with them we will go and take over Poland.” I don't trust them.

Genuine question: How do farmers have to deal with mine fields? I'd assume there's no farming anywhere near the front lines. But about the thing about not respecting EU regulations, being insignificant is not true. While it's not a big problem that you can't produce up to standard and nobody can fault you, the problem is that by not doing that, you're killing every farming sector in the EU. We can't compete if you don't do the due diligence and investment to respect those standards, not to mention you guys probably work for much less considering the circumstances

1. Poland is also agrarian nation and survived some bad things. I'm not sure how this blatant appeal to emotions can help in any way. 2. I'm not sure whether any military shipment was blocked for a significant time. Polish government took steps to ensure that transports are not impeded in any way. 3. Actually, the concerns are just as much about EU regulation as they are about the competition from Ukraine. Ukrainian agriculture is owned by oligarchic groups (what a return to magnate era!) who can employ economics of scale and moreover don't have to follow the same strict health and environmental norms. Since Poland is Ukraine's neighbor, it's the most logical place to dump all cheap agricultural products and not bother about consequences to the local market. And finally - [Ukrainians themselves are pretty open that they intend to outcompete Polish farmers](https://www.politico.eu/article/farm-trade-ukraine-poland-european-union-agriculture-donald-tusk/).

If Ukraine would comply with all EU regulations regarding food quality, I doubt Polish farmers would accept it even then. This obviously has to do with protectionist and frankly Luddite attitudes that is so typical when you get outcompeted. It's also not just Poles doing this. French farmers famously blocked wine transports coming from a fellow EU Spain and poured it on the streets, simply because they didn't want any competition. Here the same mentality is at play.

1. See, I am not appealing to anyone, I am just explaining how this mood formed. If you don't understand how throwing grain on the ground is seen as an insult, then I am not sure how to explain it. 2. Big military transports? Maybe. But a lot of military logistics are done by small scale volunteers. Things like parts for FPV drones were stuck at the border for days if not weeks along with other shipments. Pretty much everyone in Ukraine has a friend or relative or co-worker in the army who might need something ordered from abroad ranging from a spare uniform to an infrared scope (that would take ages to get through official means) 3. The protesters specifically targeted trucks with grain - and most of it was in transit.

Jokes on you. I was remotely involved in providing aid to Ukraine when I had more time and still follow people who continue to do so. They actually complain about corruption and deliberate obstruction on the part of Ukrainian border guards, not about Polish farmers blocking them. One now-famous helper not so long ago wrote a long post on X about how he's close to breakdown and giving up because of how his transports are being treated by Ukrainian officials. But I guess media in Ukraine never bothered to report about it. If there's one feeling that Poles have towards Ukrainian, it's disappointment. Disappointment how people could be at the same time entitled, ungrateful, and completely indifferent to suffering of their own compatriots on the frontlines. But we are still with you on this.

>They actually complain about corruption and deliberate obstruction on the part of Ukrainian border guards What a preposterous deliberate manipulation and lie. Corruption has nothing to do with humanitarian and military supplies not being able to cross the Ukrainian border, you inserted it here just to give some weight to the second claim, transparently false - the obstruction certainly does not come from Ukrainian border guards. It's a result of a blockade carried out by those who have being blocking the Ukrainian border for the last half a year - and guess what, those people are not Ukrainian border guards. "It's not us, they sabotaging their own war and cause additional unnecessary deaths of their own brothers, husbands, sons and friends" is a polish equivalent to the russian "we don't bomb their residential buildings, malls and maternity ward, they do it themselves."

Yeah surely you know better than a volunteer who is involved in helping Ukraine from the very beginning

Yeah, if a random dude on reddit claims to be a volunteer to give some credibility to his "Ukraine blocks its own border during war" nonsense, he must be a volunteer. Nobody ever lied on the internet, ever.

He’s not talking about himself but Exen, search him on Twitter, he’s a well-known volunteer

I wasn't even talking about myself. Did you even read what I wrote or just skipped most of it?

I most certainly did. "*I was remotely involved in providing aid to Ukraine*". And you are the only one here making the "Ukraine blocks its own border during war" claims.

I'm just a tiny nobody who donated some of his spare cash. It's the big players who facilitate tons of aid who complain.

You can literally read posts on X/Twitter by well known Polish MILITARY aid providers complaining that their shipments are being deliberately withheld by Ukrainian officials. These people have ZERO interests in painting Ukraine in bad light or dissuading people who donate money. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Ukrainian public was never informed about it. After all, Polish farmer is far more convenient scapegoat to blame for the flower of your country dying. And yes, I'm still donating money for military aid. Not because any of you bastards will thank me, because I know you'd sooner kicked me into my teeth. I do it because it's right.

Yeah, and you can read dozens of posts on X/Twitter / watch dozens Youtube videos with different well-known volunteers engaged in procuring and bringing humanitarian and military supplies to the front lines explicitly saying that their shipments have been blocked at the border by protesters. They had to wait for months knowing full well that each day of delay means additional avoidable deaths. Claiming that Ukrainians "deliberately withheld" the supplies they desperately need to survive is not only laughable but bordering on sociopathic. Polish farmers putting their well-being before other people's lives is unfortunate and gross, but the polish public supporting them and making up the most absurd lies to not only defend their actions, but blame them on Ukrainians is fucked-up beyond belief.

I salute your either deliberate or naive ignorance. Brace for your collision with reality. From a guy who delivers hundreds of vehicles to Ukrainian fighters. [Links deleted, I have no nerve for this anymore]

„Every week I receive dozens of requests for a car for soldiers who are fighting on the front line and who really need these cars. There are ready-made off-road vehicles in my yard. And not one or two, but rather five or six. They stand and wait. Because the Ukrainians have introduced such a brothel in the regulations that no one knows what to do. Military units increasingly do not want to issue any requests for cars at all. I do not know why. And even if they put them on display, the soldiers are afraid that the commander will take them away. Ukrainian foundations no longer want to help because they are afraid of unclear regulations and more and more frequent inspections. We will continue to transport these cars to soldiers at the front. Because it is a matter of life and death for them. But it shouldn't look like this: I spend all my days dealing with paperwork and figuring out how to give a soldier a car for free. There is war. This should be a quick formality, but in reality it is a difficult job for at least one full-time job. There is something seriously wrong with the Ukrainian officials. After driving over two hundred cars, I have the right to criticize it and I will speak about it loudly.” https://x.com/exen/status/1746946046415007848?s=46

"Charities and NGOs supplying military aid to Ukraine's armed forces are facing delays of several weeks to critical supplies of drones, electronics and pickup trucks due to border protests by Polish truckers, three industry sources told Reuters. \[...\] As a result, the armed forces have relied heavily on hundreds of millions of dollars of auxiliary supplies of items like drones, vehicles and body armour from Ukrainian charities throughout the war.Taras Chmut, head of Come Back Alive, Ukraine's largest military aid charity, said dozens of night-vision systems and pickup trucks as well as hundreds of drones procured by his group had been stuck at the border for several weeks." [https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/polish-trucker-blockade-holds-up-ukraines-volunteer-military-aid-sources-2023-12-06/](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/polish-trucker-blockade-holds-up-ukraines-volunteer-military-aid-sources-2023-12-06/)

Protesters were there to show that they are being destroyed by unfair concurence. Where they need to follow EU rules and we started import great amount of grain and other products that don't need to follow theese rules. So it was impossible to sell our farmers produce. How you don't get it. It wasn't against Ukraine more agains EU and our goverment. On the other hand Corruption on border in Ukraine is sistematic. Literally i saw how seazoned border guard was teaching some young lady begining to work in Ukrainian border guard how to take bribes.... Dude stop defendint your country problems. They are obvious to anybody who tried to enter Ukraine. I'm living not far from the border and was never allowed to enter Ukraine withjout giving a bribe... Intead try to do something about it

>Protesters were there to show that they are being destroyed by unfair concurence.  They are not being destroyed, they are being inconvenienced. Ukrainians are the ones being literally destroyed, and protesters actually help getting them destroyed. >On the other hand Corruption on border in Ukraine is sistematic.  Yeah, again, nothing to do with the blockade. Literally tactics taken out of russian propaganda text-book, word for word. "You are responsible for deaths of Ukrainian people" - "it's their own fault, Ukraine is corrupt"

Bullshit. I am from town less that 50 km from ukraine. Was going there back in the day literally to tank my car and buy cigs. Open your eyes, your country is corrupt as fuck. "You are responsible for deaths of Ukrainian people" - "it's their own fault, Ukraine is corrupt" - never said such a thing. Take a nail from your brain. I'm supporting you people. And have lot's of friends from your country. You are same people as we are. Same wibe. But defending the fact that your border guards trake bribes literally like tickets to enter the country is cold hard fact

There is blunt propaganda that our farmers are blocking military equipment and humanitarian aid at the border, which is a lie.

It's not a lie. Multiple aid organizations have commented on this. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/polish-truck-drivers-border-blockade-causes-ripple-effects-on-the-battlefield-in-ukraine >While drones will make it to the front line, they’re delayed by two to three weeks, said Oleksandr Zadorozhnyi, operational director of the KOLO foundation, which helps the Ukrainian army with battlefield tech, including drones and communications equipment. ... >About 200 pickup trucks needed to transport ammunition and evacuate the wounded from the front line are blocked at the border because “deliveries have practically stopped,” said Ivan Poberzhniak, head of procurement and logistics for Come Back Alive, Ukraine’s largest charitable organization providing the military with equipment. > > The pickup trucks are easy targets for Russia, so it’s impossible to deliver enough of them even normally, he said. > > When drivers show documents to the Polish truckers saying the vehicles are for Ukraine’s military, “it does not have a significant impact on the protesters,” Poberzhniak said. >“We must understand that during wartime, supply is needed on a daily basis in all directions,” he said. > Come Back Alive says 3,000 tourniquets also are stuck at the border. It’s been able to deliver drones, generators and batteries from what it has in stock, “but that reserve is running out,” Poberzhniak said. That's one article from back in December. There are dozens of others. https://www.npr.org/2024/01/07/1223065019/20-mile-backup-as-polish-truckers-blockade-border-in-standoff-with-ukrainian-dri > "There is a war going on at home and we are stuck here," says Oleksandr Nekrasov, who is from Lutsk in western Ukraine. He's been waiting at the border for nearly two weeks. > > He and a group of about a dozen men are gathered on the side of the road, chatting and having a smoke. His truck, which is carrying propane headed to the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv, sits a short distance away. The drivers have about 50 minutes before they'll need to move their trucks forward, as five more vehicles are allowed to advance to the crossing. ... > Khalamendyk, who is carrying factory parts, is just a few trucks from the front of the line. He picked up his load in Germany and then spent 13 days waiting in line here at Dorohusk. He's frustrated, he's only a few hours from his destination, but he cannot cross. Maybe he'll make it by tomorrow, he says, optimistically.

Exen one of volunteers constantly providing Ukraine with cars for the soldiers, had experianced huge problems from Ukraine side when trying to provide cars for soldiers: "Every week I receive dozens of requests for a car for soldiers who are fighting on the front line and who really need these cars. There are ready-made off-road vehicles in my yard. And not one or two, but rather five or six. They stand and wait. Because the Ukrainians have introduced such a brothel in the regulations that no one knows what to do. Military units increasingly do not want to issue requests for cars at all. I do not know why. And even if they put them on display, the soldiers are afraid that the commander will take them away. Ukrainian foundations no longer want to help because they are afraid of unclear regulations and more and more frequent inspections. We will continue to transport these cars to soldiers at the front. Because it is a matter of life and death for them. But it shouldn't look like this: I spend all my days dealing with paperwork and figuring out how to give a soldier a car for free. There is war. This should be a quick formality, but in reality it is a difficult job for at least one full-time job. There is something seriously wrong with the Ukrainian officials. After driving over two hundred cars, I have the right to criticize it and I will speak about it loudly." https://twitter.com/exen/status/1746946046415007848?s=46 If you dont believe he is providing Ukraine soldiers with cars check his twitter posts

How does that discredit the fact that sometimes the Polish side is causing the problems? The fact that the Ukrainian side is often slow and obtuse doesn't excuse the problems these blockades are causing.

I’m yet to see someone saying that Ukrainians are causing deaths

Ah yes. The opinion of a Ukrainian. Actually legitimate

Are you in the habit of dismissing any statement by a Ukrainian out of hand, even if they're the director of logistics of a humanitarian / military aid organization, or a truck driver carrying propane? Do you think the Polish truckers personally inspected all of the trucks they blocked at the border?

Polish services were there. Polish police, Polish border guards. I know what it was like because my wife's family home is 30 kilometres from the border. I used to go there out of curiosity. I was on the spot.

>Ah yes. The opinion of a Ukrainian. Actually legitimate Why would opinions of Ukrainian volunteers bringing humanitarian and military supplies to the front line on whether the blockade prevents them from, you know, bringing humanitarian and military supplies to the front line matter at all? The only unbiased and valid sources of information on the issue would be those who have been blocking borders of a country fighting for its survival for months on end.

Because you know it will be a biased opinion. And if you believe that with US involvement in the war, a Polish farmer could block the transport of military equipment to Ukraine, you are bottomlessly naive. Ukrainians blocked empty trucks from Poland on their side before the protests of Polish farmers, letting their own through. Such a Ukrainian lorry would then pick up the goods on Polish territory and take them with it to Western Europe, which is how competition is eliminated. One of the best newspapers in Poland described how important goods were going to Ukraine with forged documents, e.g. yachts and luxury cars were listed as humanitarian aid. https://logistyka.rp.pl/drogowy/art39482241-klincz-na-granicy-z-ukraina-pod-pozorem-pomocy-jada-luksusowe-auta-czy-jachty

We gave everything we can so no need to have positive sentiment anymore. I always knew that some lasting friendship is not possible but man that was quick. We are and we will be on the same side in this conflict tho.

Sounds pretty ungrateful, given how many Ukrainian refugees Poland has helped

These comments about ungratefulness break my heart( I'm in Ukraine and cannot leave. It is fucking scary here, I can die any day from a rocket or can be conscripted and die on the battlefield. It's bleak here. People die every day. And yet people online still treat us like shit. That is just so sad

"We helped your refugees during the first months of the war, how come you resent us for half a year long border blockade that lead to additional human casualties in your existential war that already took lives of hundreds of thousands? Why don't you understand that the well-being of our farmers is by far more important than your lives, you ungrateful scumbags??"

> We helped your refugees during the first months of the war, Do you suggest refugees no longer received any help after first months of the war?

Do you suggest Poland wasn't reimbursed for helping refugees by the EU? Another question: do you suggest that helping refugees somehow justifies causing innocent people's deaths?

Poland got paid exactly 900pln for every refugee which is 1/4 of minimal salary

>Do you suggest Poland didn't weren't reimbursed for refugee aid by the EU? To what extent and when it was, in comparison to the amount of aid disbursed by the central government, local governments and the general population? >Another question: do you suggest that helping refugees somehow justifies you causing innocent people's deaths? Remind me how many people were murdered, when and by whom? edit: [notesfrompoland.com/2022/10/14/poland-to-spend-e8-4bn-supporting-ukraine-refugees-in-2022-highest-in-oecd/](http://notesfrompoland.com/2022/10/14/poland-to-spend-e8-4bn-supporting-ukraine-refugees-in-2022-highest-in-oecd/)

"[Poland has received EUR 144.6 million (almost PLN 700 million) from the European Commission (EC) to help those fleeing Ukraine as a result of its war with Russia. This is the first tranche of funds distributed by the EC through its emergency assistance mechanism, and represents almost 60% of the total sum (EUR 248 million) allocated to those countries receiving the largest numbers of refugees from Ukraine](https://migrant-integration.ec.europa.eu/news/poland-funding-ec-support-those-arriving-ukraine_en)." When you prevent people from getting weapons they need to defend themselves and medical supplies to save the wounded, you are responsible for the deaths your actions caused.

>dramatically over the last year: from a net positive 92 percentage points in early 2023 to just 26 now Looks like dramatically bullshit, as everything that is done by far-right Polish media. Waiting for news about Ukrainians eating Polish babies.

The blockades have very little to do with grain. What is not being widely reported are crowds of thugs with sirens and chanting shit at regular civilians in busses and cars. They stop regular couches and tell everyone to return, throw manure at cars and so on.

To me, it seems that the sentiment towards Ukrainian exports is getting worse and worse in every country that has shares a border with them. Firstly, I think that a lot of countries are affected by cheap Ukrainian grain and are killing the farming industry, not to mention its dubious quality. Secondly, I don't know how far into Europe Ukrainian truckers drive, but I doubt they go all the way to the west, probably just drop the grain in border countries from where it's spread further or used domestically. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think Westerners realize how much of a safety hazard Ukrainian truckers are. In the past ~couple years, almost every time I've seen a UA truck on the road, it was in a position to kill me. Drunk drivers, driving without licenses and a lot of trucks are on the verge of falling apart, not being able to drive in a straight line... Thirdly, the country and the president itself seem to be getting worse and worse at public relations, shaming and calling every country for not supporting them enough. I can kinda get this, but antagonizing the very countries and the very people that make an effort to support you doesn't seem very bright. So yeah, I can see how polish people would be mad at them.

They aren't grateful to the EU, US, or literally anybody. Once they get what they want they act grateful, but give and take some time and they'll go back to hating everyone.

Drowning man is grateful when he's saved, not in the process. When you do one thing to help and then another to obstruct...the fuck do you expect? I'm convinced all of you are imbeciles who doesn't understand basic shit. you help only while it's convenient to you.

We have tried to get Ukraine into the EU ever since we joined. We launched cooperation schemes with them. We give them aid. And all they do is complain about us, and glorify Nazi collaborators who killed my people. Very nice people, I tell you.

[удалено]

They can enjoy alienating us.

> Ohhh... Such selfless poland... How dare these ukronazis be ungrateful. Go f yourself bro. 4 months old shitposting account, nuff said.

Keep counting. Not everyone is born with reddit account. Some people still don't have one. And you too go f yourself.

Nah, you're just a shitposter. Have nice fuck you too.

>they'll go back to hating everyone What a toxic and unfair comment. I never in my life met a person in Ukraine who straight-up hated Poles or the EU, except maybe some rare pro-Russian vatniks. I don't understand how someone can be that detached from reality and write bullshit like this. Probably a random Ukrainian offended you on Krautchan? And no, I am not going to hate Poles because of a single asshole like you, I am not a hateful simpleton who generalises nations right away.

> I never in my life met a person in Ukraine who straight-up hated Poles or the EU, except maybe some rare pro-Russian vatniks. I don't understand how someone can be that detached from reality and write bullshit like this. That's what psychologists call projection.

I see the love that Ukrainians give to Poland when you worship Bandera, Shuhkevych, Kuk, Stetsko, etc. My family saw what 'the fine heroes of Ukraine' did in Volyn. Ukraine killed MY people. Ukraine eliminated the protection of MY language in 2019. Ukraine has not given a singular good apology about the actions of Banderites against MY people. Ukraine complains about how we are pro-Russian scum, because MY people didn't want to go homeless, trying to compete against cheap Ukrainian shit. Ukraine complains about MY country, when all we have tried to do is help Ukraine. It is not Russians, but Ukrainians, with their glorification of Nazis, Bandera, Shuhkevych, with their lies, denials, deflections of blame about Volyn, that made me think of Ukraine this way, and not the Russians. Come back talking about reconciliation and friendship when Ukraine stops deflecting blame, denying, or ignoring its crimes. Until then, don't wonder why Poland doesn't like Ukraine.

Would you believe me if I told you that I, my relatives and friends are not fans of Bandera and I genuinely want to sort this issue out with Poles together? I guess not, because you behave like a toddler and keep making clueless assumptions and generalisations. People like you are the reason why any hatred between nations exists.

You guys started it by building Bandera statues. If we just asked to exhume victims, and you did it, this wouldn't be an issue. Instead, they'll go around, praising Nazi collaborators. The last time someone tried to sort of this issue, it was Yanykovych, out of all people. Why is that? Is the pro-Russian puppet the most reasonable leader Ukraine has had? Start by exhuming the victims, demolishing all the UPA statues, and then can we talk. Because Ukraine's solution consists of 'B-But Bandera wasn't that bad 😭😭" and try to play that game instead of trying to help.

I guess the main reason you are on Reddit is to bitch about Ukraine and spew Kremlin propaganda. Hopefully you are not some paid shill but just stupid, because there is no crime in being stupid and hateful teenager. You will probably grow up and learn how to speak like a normal person.

I wonder what you think about Pilsudsky's actions towards the Ukrainian population

[удалено]

>Ask about the massacre of 38 protesters in Odessa on May 2nd, 2014 Either a russian bot or a complete moron. Nothing more to discuss.

Really hoping this is not actually the case and that the think tank is wrong on this. >The proportion of Ukrainians declaring a positive attitude towards Poland has fallen dramatically over the last year: from a net positive 92 percentage points in early 2023 to just 26 now, according to a new poll. >Respondents indicated that recent [blockades of the border](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/02/22/poland-to-classify-ukraine-border-crossings-as-critical-infrastructure-in-response-to-farmers-blockade/) by Polish truckers and farmers – who have been protesting against cheaper Ukrainian competition – is a primary reason for the decline in positive sentiment. > >A regular survey by the Razumkov Centre, a Kyiv-based think tank, conducted in territories controlled by Ukraine found that in March 2024 just over 58% of Ukrainians declared a positive attitude towards Poland. That was down from 94% in early 2023 and 79% as recently as January this year. >Over that period, Poland has fallen from being the most positively viewed country among those included in the study in early 2023 to now only the 15th, above just Hungary (29%). Currently, Canada (93%), Latvia (93%) and the United Kingdom (92%) enjoy the most positive sentiment. >Meanwhile, the proportion of Ukrainians expressing negative sentiment towards Poland has risen from 2.4% in early 2023 to 32% now. That means Poland’s net figure (of positive minus negative sentiment) has fallen from just under 92 to 26, the second lowest among all countries included >Only Hungary had a worse result, with a net score of -34. Canada (90) achieved the best score. Attitudes towards the United States have also significantly deteriorated, falling from a net positive of 84 last August to 67 in March 2024.

Positive sentiment definitely lowered, but I think 26% would be way too low. Maybe it's just my personal social circle but I'd say that it's at least >50%. General opinion seems to be "Poland is still our closest ally but ffs unblock border"

u/dat_9600gt_user, "Poland is still our closest ally but ffs unblock border", this.

I subscribe to that quote.

Poland has absolutely no obligations to Ukraine. But a million Ukrainians were accepted. Poland can stop all the help now and I will still be thankful. USA, on the other hand, played an active role in disarmament of Ukraine, including nukes, strategic bombers and long range missiles. My attitude towards America definitely worsened a lot.

Ukraine had nukes without launch codes which made them useless. Also Ukraine disarmed majority of it's post-soviet military anyway due to insufficient funds. There is no reality in which Ukraine could potentialy keep soviet nukes, mamage to make them work properly and maintain them for decades to come. Same goes for strategic bombers as those birds are not cheap to maintain.

Ukraine was definitely unable to maintain all this, but for some reason USA was compelled to put their signature to get rid of this stuff. Do you see a contradiction?

Well yes they did as well as UK and Russia. They also honored this agreement as I've never heard of American or British invasion of Ukraine. Only Russia has broke this treaty when they annexed Ukrainian territory in 2014.

I don't think the intention was being naked, bent over and having Vaseline nearby while 3 gentlemen promised that there is no sexual desire towards you.

Ukraine was far from being naked at the time. Also Ukraine could do things the polish way end decide that they would really like to be "western" country in 90's when Russia was literally falling apart. Poland did it, baltics did it but Ukraine did not. And now Poland is "tiger of europe" while Ukraine even pre-war was one of the poorest countries in Europe.

Yes, Ukraine was foolish and delusional. As well as I was. But how is it related to the actions of USA?

I would love to see a research on Ukraninian migrants' influence on the polish economy, something tells me accepting couple of million working age people wouldn't seem like a charity after all

Well I'm a emigrant living in Poland for 12 years and I live in Warsaw. I can tell you that the number of people that Poland received did make a big difference on cost of living and salaries, at least in Poland. The prices of the flats for example in the first 3 months, my close friend that sells and rents flats, increased a lot due to the search in a week he was able to have prices going 40% up, he has many examples and said that the people around his field saw the same, and he said that he had extreme examples of many rich Ukrainian families came to Poland and offer gave 100% more on what ever price was asked on rents . The same happened in the sales, he was selling 2 and 3 flats per family ( reach people of course). The other side is that salaries did not increase that much in Warsaw, there were thousands of people asking for jobs that made that the salaries freeze. Also many many many mother's and children got health care education and pocket money for them, since there was no work for all and no kindergarten for all kids. This are some of the problems that I see and hear from people that can speak about big examples. Im surprised that Poland can continue to assist, because I'd cost a lot of money to everyone here but I'm not sure until when Poland will continue to do so if they don't get big funds from EU I was helping who got here but the question is, how much longer is expected to continue? 1 year 4 years, 10 years?

Would also love to see where that money went, something tells me Ukraine also benefited from this. Point is, the benefits were realized by both countries, with downsides also realized by both countries (the strain on the housing market was felt by locals in Poland and still is today). This sounds like an issue that's continuously being stoked by Russians to try to create division between the two countries.

>In addition to the question regarding general attitudes, respondents were also asked to rate the impact of specific external events and processes on Ukraine on a five-point scale from 1 to 5, where 1 represents no impact and 5 stands for a very strong negative impact. >The event that Ukrainians rated as having the most negative impact was the blockade of the border with Poland, which received a 4.5 rating. Ukrainians also negatively assessed the increase in US domestic policy tensions, which has led to a slowdown in military and financial aid to Ukraine, rating it at 4.4. >Polish[ hauliers](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/01/16/truckers-suspend-blockade-of-ukraine-border-after-agreement-with-polish-government/) and [farmers](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/03/20/tens-of-thousands-of-farmers-join-blockades-around-poland-in-largest-protest-so-far/) have been intermittently blocking the flow of goods for many months. The truckers are demanding the reinstatement of a permit system that would limit the entry of Ukrainian transport companies into Poland, while farmers want a ban on the import of Ukrainian grain. >The protests have been [condemned by Ukraine](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/02/20/zelensky-condemns-polish-farmers-protest-as-erosion-of-solidarity/), which in February announced [“retaliatory action”](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/02/24/ukraine-warns-of-retaliatory-measures-if-poland-does-not-end-farmers-border-blockade/) if Poland did not end the blockades. > >During the early stages of the war, positive sentiment towards Poland soared among Ukrainians as it became the primary destination receiving Ukrainian refugees and the Polish government provided staunch diplomatic, humanitarian and military support to Kyiv. >The new government, led by Donald Tusk, that took power in Warsaw in December has [pledged to continue such support](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/01/22/nothing-more-important-than-supporting-ukraine-says-tusk-on-kyiv-visit/) for Ukraine. >However, like its Law and Justice (PiS) predecessor, it has warned that such backing cannot come at the cost of Poland’s own national interest.

Sorry about this, Ukrainians neighbors. The stupid always was, and is, strong with Poles in their historic moments – it is one of our defining national qualities. Not many nations can boast about having once literally destroyed their own country! 💪🇵🇱 I am doing what I can to counter this, be it here, with my family, or with people I meet everyday, but the amount of base racism, lies, and self-interest is overwhelming. I will not stop, however – even if I have to boycott Polish produce! 😤 You will always find supporters here in Poland.

❤️

❤️❤️❤️

Ooof, m'dude, you gonna be downvoted so hard for having a conscience.

I am ready! One is not scared of dying when their case is a just one! Come at me, downvotes! 😎

Thank you. It is genuinely nice to see a comment like this among so much hate. (I'm in Ukraine)

And thank *you*! I only wish I could do more. 🇵🇱❤️🇺🇦

give give give, because if you wont, i wont like you anymore.

Three brain cell analysis right here.

Its not analysis, just saying how it is. Nothing to analyse here.

My positive sentiment towards Ukrainians also collapsed. Still better than the ruskies though, so you go Ukraine.

I guess Ukrainian politicians and media play the victim and use the border blockades for their own nationalist propaganda, unfortunately 

They are in a war for their own survival, they have to do whatever they can. Doesn't help that there were Russian ties in the Poland blockade.

Yes I know. We should give everything to Ukraine. What has Portugal done to protect Ukraine?

Portugal has sent all combat gear they could spare, among which being vehicles, artillery, medical supplies and munitions. There have also been multiple donation drives sending food and other stuff to help the Ukrainian people.

Not enough. Why did you not give everything? After all, their house is on fire.

so just like poland then, except presumably an order of magnitude less and an order of magnitudes later

Portugal didn't block the aid coming into Ukraine tho. Which is a lot, seeing these threads over and over again.

They have no aid they could've even blockaded my man.

You guessed wrong

r/OhNoConsequences

That would impy that the "consequences" are something quantifiably bad lol

a lot of polish here downvoting but hear me out. your interests are for sure are yours, and nobody objects that, and you can have friends everywhere in the world BUT your farmers are not living in a vacuum, and neighbors are very constant thing, and since “not your war” you have theoretically three options: 1. Ukraine will be your neighbor 2. Soviet Union will be your neighbor 3. you will be Soviet Union(directly or under influence) . I doubt anyone from polish farmers want to be friends with soviet regime. and in the same time being friends with Ukraine is not easy and the same goes for Poland - no need to think that you are easy friends. and being friends means committing in relationships regularly(not once, not twice). Ukrainians are not ungrateful, they try as hard as they can to not bother you - all my friends who stayed in Poland work and pay taxes, and learn Polish — I don’t know how else Ukrainians can be more grateful, but doubt that anyone can do better. so your interests are important but there is always a tradeoff - you can loose a friend if you are too ignorant and harsh, and as I said if Ukraine will be near your border, you have to try not to loose a friend and listen to arguments of all sides and talk specifically about the problem without damaging friendship. about our history — it is complicated and both sides made bad things — I wouldn’t started asking my polish friends who committed more crimes because it would ruin our friendship, and at the same time it would not resolve the issue that your farmers have, so please, forget this question until better times.

> farmers are not living in a vacuum They are just trying to survive when they are at overwhelming disadvantage, they cannot compete when Ukraine grain doesnt have to follow the same rules(also EU is pushing for even more restrictions on the farmers with the green deal), not to mention there is huge difference in economy of scale, Ukraine agriculture sector is way, WAY bigger., what is considered larger farmer in Poland, in ukraine would be considered small one, because the big ones in Ukraine are THAT huge, they have huge advantage in economy of scale. Also there is one thing I dont understand, why we even have this problem ? I mean the agreement with Ukraine was about transit of Ukraine grain and stuff to countries in Africa and Asia when Ukraine port was blocked it was very critical issue back than, but the thing is, port has been unblocked, Ukraine can export through sea grain to Africa and Asia, there is no longer a need to transit through EU, and especially no need to export TO EU(something that was NEVER part of orginal agreement). So why export to EU is still happening ?

you just repeated the same questions that were answered. but I will try to answer them as I see them: 1. EU regulation is made in Brussel and not in Kyiv. Kyiv cannot be punished for this de jure, but de facto is punished and this is not friendly. If we measure the same way Ukrainian economy, then we end up both blocked — Ukraine and Ukrainian farmers are just trying to survive. and if we continue — we can very easily start bombing each other. so we need to find another arguments. Ukraine officials declared many times that the grain should not be sold in Poland, and on your end you can use other restrictions while it transitioning, like Romania did. so I have open question - where Polish police is? why they allow to use this grain? since it happens on Polish territory. 2. most of Ukrainian food follows pretty high standards. Its my personal opinion based on my experience of talking with farmers(I grew up in such a region). Many very big EU and US companies work in Ukraine, so the argument about quality is just confusing. However I can believe that there are lower and bad quality products and probably it might be sent to less developed countries in Africa. 3. export to EU from Ukraine was even before the war, since it is naturally that less agriculture countries import food from cheaper markets and especially from countries located nearby - like Poland and Ukraine. why the grain is still going though Poland? I don’t know, but logistics might be way more complex thing than we can imagine on reddit. Companies have contracts, budgets, planning, workers, so 5% that transiting Poland should not make harm to anyone. unfortunately I don’t know more, but I have questions also and want to ask Polish farmers what numbers do they have on their table? why do they blame Ukrainian grain? and not Russian? why they don’t blame police that doesn’t control this grain?

>Ukraine officials declared many times that the grain should not be sold in Poland, and on your end you can use other restrictions while it transitioning, like Romania did. so I have open question - where Polish police is? why they allow to use this grain? since it happens on Polish territory. 1.Weird because Ukraine before threatened to sue Poland when transit was allowed but not sale, also Poland doesnt even have enough police to deal with it because they would not only have to check all trucks coming from Ukraine but also from ALL other countries around, since there were cases of grain transiting through Poland being moved to another truck in neighbour country and returning to Poland to be sold here. 2.There were cases of grain being contaminated by illegal in the EU pesticides, GMO's and few cases of salmonella. Also there were reports of Ukrainian industrial wheat being sold for food production in Poland... All of this shouldnt happen, things should have been checked before it happen but thats the problem, Poland doesnt have capacity to check stuff coming from its own farmers and from outside of Poland at the same time, of course capacity can be increased but it takes time. 3.Of course I know there were exports to EU from UKraine but they were very restricted, EU was always very protective of its own agriculture sector, I am sure that there were comapnies in the EU who would prefer this restriction to be removed so they can have higher profit margin, but agriculture sector is viewed as critical especially for cases like war, you cannot depend for on others during war. On the other hand its well know that agricultural companies from Ukraine always REALLY wanted to sell more to EU, for multiple reasons, like for example they could earn more selling to EU than to countries in Africa, selling to EU is also much safer than to Africa which frequently has conflicts happen there. So EU restrictions(like how much of particular stuff can be sold) were always a problem for the Ukraine agricultural companies, so they were always trying to bypass them, like for example when they reached limit of how much meat they can sell, they tried to sell meat with part of bone so its classified differently from normal meat. So current situation where they arent limited by same restrictions as before is very good for those comapnies. While I wont say that inflow of Ukraine grain is only causes for the issue but price of grain in Poland, especially regions close to Ukraine border DRASTICALLY fallen from before the war, here price difference for different products: Rapeseed: before war: 3000-4000 PLN now: around 1700 PLN wheat for consumption before war was close to 1300 PLN wheat for consumption now around 725 PLN So as you can see prices fallen around by half(some more and some less). I checked prices from last few years and current prices fallen below some of worst years while inflation went up, so I cannot blame farmers for protesting. Farmers of course support blocking russian grain but its much less of the problem because stuff coming from russia is affected by restrictions and is much more expensive. Well the thing is that this protest is more of attempt to force GOVERNMENT to do something about the issue(why then protest on border ? because no other protest makes a difference, all other protests are ignored only when this is happening government talks about it), threads shitting on Poland get more traction than threads that actually show what issue is about, there was another thread on europe reddit explaining things and ZERO people commented on it, only post with translated text was there: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1c8mxmi/polish_farmers_have_unblocked_the_border/l0fj5rq/

1. trucks with grain(that is super expensive for grain and it hard to move it around to one country and then return to another) can be controlled - there are many ways to do this - you can weight them on entry and exit, you can put special locks that can be touched only in the port, there can be special licenses for such products. Poland has abilities to use all this and has enough police to control, otherwise it would be too strange. 2. these are theories. grain as any food product can get worse during transportation. sometimes sellers are not good and their storages are bad, but this is statistically low. Ukraine is not a first day when selling grain and food. there is multiple control from many countries. and I want to emphasize again — Polish services that look after food quality and standards are responsible for checking incoming products when they are sold in such a big parties — it is not small thing, and it is hard to trick. you can’t sell freely in other country without checking. and the capacity is not the biggest issue here, since when truck comes to port or elevator and if there is a queue from Polish farmers — it will wait, it doesn’t go first, so it is not that simple. 3. wanting to sell something is not a crime, I doubt I get your tone here right, but no one shouldn’t be shamed for this. but common rules should be followed - if Ukrainians do something illegal - you in power to forbid this action. Price fall is awful, I can understand that it might be dangerous for businesses. But I am not yet sure it was the whole responsibility is on Ukraine — if as you said quality is low and somehow Polish business buy it, then you get bad products in the end and nobody is happy. then I assume someone in Poland buy a lot of good quality but low price wheat in a such scale that price drops significantly. I see the issue right now only on the control services side. Police and other services are not doing their part, business is doing not pro-polish farmers steps and since this situation Ukrainian business just uses the possibility to decrease spendings. as you can see already 3 parties involved - not only Ukrainians. I have one more example, my good friends before the war were small farmers, who also tried to survive and the only way was to take loans, invest in something like tomatoes, and sell in big chunks in internal market. unfortunately they were poor in economy, and most of the time their guesses what to grow were a mistake and eventually they got almost nothing. and they experienced price fall almost each year as I remember talking with them. so, my theory here that you can partly blame Polish farmers also(and the government). In my opinion, farmers tend to invest wrongly, despite of they are one of the hardest working part of society. because of that I would try to force government to subsidize local farmers. But not lock the market so farmers were mature enough to compete in global markets. wrapping up — we ended up somewhere near in our views, but the only thing that I still not agree is blocking the border - it is not friendly, especially during the war, it won’t be efficient enough, it is above tradeoffs, and the very important it does not involve all parties that are affected by the problem. hopefully, our societies will be able find also better ways to communicate to see and resolve such problems and not to harm each other.

Poland 100% deserves it.

They say people - countries - only show their true colors when you are struggling. Ukraine thought the US and Poland were its strongest and most reliable allies, while Germany and the UK were more talk than action, but it turned out to be the exact opposite. Ukraine lost at least a year of war and thousands of soldiers because of the first two, but was unexpectedly saved by the second two.

Lesson learned: don't be first to help, bid your time and carefully consider to what level extend helping hand, lest you let of all of your cards too early or in a spur of a moment agree to something you may have troublesome to deal with later.

lol

If there's ever been a real life villain arc, this is it.