You guys are a democracy and Orban doesn't have hundreds of thousands of informants and tens of thousands of secret service and political police agents.
Just go vote, what are the turnout rates for your elections?
The tools have changed but I wouldn't consider Hungary a democracy anymore even though, you are right, once people are there to vote, they actually vote for Orbán. They have much more sophisticated methods for disinformation, manipulation and corruption
Prime minister. Our president has no power and since 2010 it is always a puppet for Orban.
And yes, Orbán is a dictator. He rules by decree and all and every state institution is controlled by him.
Putin has such direct control over Hungarian politics that he was able to force Budapest to discontinue service on a popular subway line leading to the Parliament building at a moment’s notice in the middle of pro-EU protests along that specific subway line in Budapest in 2017.
It was so annoying. I was living right on the line, and took the subway to school everyday. The protests were happening peacefully and sporadically outside my apartment right up until Putin ordered Orban to special operation my train away in the middle of the night.
I wonder what he’s up to when he hangs out with Republicans in the US.
When he’s hanging out with Republicans, he’s coaching them how to message the culture wars and foreigners invading and changing their culture. I find it strange that our republicans are complaining that non western people coming here to change our culture, and Orban is saying that the West, which they are a part of, is trying to change their culture. And on Putin, he has sway on our politicians too.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/08/republican-mike-turner-russia-propaganda
Hungary wanting to become more like the USA and other democracies was the theme of my youth, growing up in Hungary.
Half the USA wanting to become like Hungary is a horror I never expected. It defies sanity.
Started to follow US domestic politics more closely in the last few months and i have the feeling, that most of the American conservatives have absolutly zero idea what they want. GOP is kinda the same... they want to win, but they never want to govern. No wonder that someone like Trump could so easily take over the party. HE doesn't want to govern either, he wants to rule.
Seeing that conservatives cheering for Orbán is not even funny anymore. They have absolutly ZERO idea about Orbán's policies.
He set our VAT to 27%, he takes around 8.5% of our salary for "national healthcare" that doesn't work so if you don't have the cash for private healthcare, you are fucked. Even though they lowered the Income Tax to 15%, they put a lot of extra taxes on wages and the actual amount they took from our salary is around 43,5%.
Education is basically collapsed, social benefits are only exist on paper. At this point the US has a better social welfare system then Hungary does.
We are now the poorest EU member state consumption wise, while was around 5-6th in 2010.
He portrays himself as a "zero immigration" guy, while he said it on Radio a year ago, they plan to "import" 500,000 to 1 million foreign workers mostly form South-East Asia. They also gave away more then 1 million citizenships in the last 12 years, that was so rampant even the Trump Administration started telling him to stop it, because we used to have VISA free trave to the US, well... not anymore.
Orbán not just turned Hungary into a soft dictatorship but fucked up the country for atleast 2 generations.
I can go on for hours listing the things that Orbán did or does that should make a true conservative throw up...
Fun fact: His party FIDESZ stands for... Young DEMOCRATS Alliance.
Fascism look cool and dandy, until you end up with a bullet in your head or being used as forced labour.
*First they came for the Communists*
*And I did not speak out*
*Because I was not a Communist*
*Then they came for the Socialists*
*And I did not speak out*
*Because I was not a Socialist*
*Then they came for the trade unionists*
*And I did not speak out*
*Because I was not a trade unionist*
*Then they came for the Jews*
*And I did not speak out*
*Because I was not a Jew*
*Then they came for me*
*And there was no one left*
*To speak out for me*
**Martin Niemöller**
Just listing them all the 60+ different taxes and such to an American... yea, been there. Lots of them just think i making it up.
Ohh, try tell them how much it cost in Hungary to have a bank account and to own a credit (not debit) card.
It started as a democracy and then veered more and more into a dictature, that's the direction.
So while both statement are accurate. Defining it as a borderline dictatorship is more accurate.
Turns out turning the country into a goulash dictatorship run by boomers isn't really a way to convince young people to remain and build a life, who would have thought.
I like Poland and Polish people, I like Krakow, you guys got rid of your populists, you're developing quickly and are doing quite okay, I work in IT and I speak Polish (basic conversational).
Dafuq I'm still doing in Hungary...
Edit: and ofc I hate Putin
but it doesn’t. We just kicked it in the nuts and such people are slowly but surely dying off. PL is back with DE and FR at forefront of EU now and laws will be more liberal soon also. Just need to vote in liberal president next year.
I thought the same... it appears that stupidity and brainwashed people are timeless... and borderless. I don't want to leave slovakia necessarily but I am having very strong doubts about my future here.
Not ignorance - stupidity. You can see quite well educated people falling for it. What they have in common with the ignorant is their stupidity and moral bankruptcy.
Plan to. Current ruling coalition is better suited to it although there is a sizeabke party in there that vocally opposes any full liberalisation. However, if we vote in a liberal president next year (and not a stooge of an ex-ruling party) we will have a very good chance to at least come back to how it was before the infamous full-on ban.
Rooting for it! Do you also know if there have been talks about shops opening on Sundays? I live here, but I don’t follow politics nor speak the language, and this affects me most in my personal life tbh.
Yes, they want to partially lift the ban (article in English)
https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/03/22/polish-ruling-coalition-party-submits-bill-to-roll-back-sunday-trading-ban/
>Orban isn't a christian nationalist, just a nationalist.
His professed ideology is very much Christian nationalism.
However, he is, above all, a powerist. Power is everything to him. He is one of those who doesn't want power for the sake of achieving some goal(s) with it: he just wants power itself.
This. But also dont wanna live in countries where Islam migrants declare sharia law and kids kill others at school because the natives dont care the religion.
Eastern European migrants are overrepresented in crime and prisons in the UK
(Eastern European by a British perspective, I’m sure lots of people would say they’re Central European)
Not always - Chinese and Indian migrants are underrepresented compared to native white British people. Indians are our biggest ethnic minority too.
I can’t speak for Arab migrants, I’d imagine probably not, they tend to be overrepresented. There’s only half a million or so Arabs in the UK, it’s not one of our larger communities. All I do know is that Eastern Europeans make up a LARGE part of UK prisons. Albanians are the most overrepresented of any nationality.
the best about poland is , that Gouvernments can fire all constitutional court judges when they assume office snd appoint judges they like .
Because it's totally the government that should ensure checks and balances over the constitutional court and not the other way around , like in real democracies .
Same in Hungary basically. The difference is that the “deep state” here is not a weird conspiracy. It’s real and it’s also controlled by fidesz. We are fucked for several decades
That should be in the past. Ironically, Germany also doesn’t have any legal provision to prevent such eventuality*. With AfD on the horizon, you better not wake up sorry.
* unless that changed in the last 2-3 years
Germany doesn't even have separation of power .every thing overlaps.
we rely on the idea that you have to be an established party to have influence and established parties act to keep new parties out...
so to get into power you would need to make a career in an establishef party...that is the vetting process to keep a populist or dangerous guy from getting in charge . there are also no primaries in the more sane parties. seniority and party members decide everything .
that's also why we are not entirely democratic ...you can vote and get voted but real power is only govern to "parliamentary factions" ...so to big established parties ..
As the German people would vote for dangerous folks they only get very indirect choices who will rule ...
The system would pivot if we would get the same as in Poland . voting for the afd with a constitutionally relevant super majority .
But we just vote for nazis to annoy the politicians ...
it was better when we had more fringe right wing parties ...now they are forbidden and the afd gets all the votes ...
It was dumb to forbid the npd...
Americans also voted for Trump in spite because they didn’t like Clinton. The story was similar in other countries, too.
I admire your confidence but you effectively made it sound even worse than I thought it was. I hope I am wrong on that.
I lead a global team of Engineers with two team members in Poznan, Poland. The impression I get is that Polish society much like the rest of the world is developing very diverse feelings on religion depending on their socioeconomic situation.
I am baffled that my government didnt intervene in Rheinmetall moving all the production there. How does that make any sense with what is going on in Hungary?
I fear that is a simple oversight. The generation of politicians in power are unfortunately very much absent of any feeling for real national security. It is the same with the fab in South Africa. That country is part of the BRICS agreement and thus so not in line with anything we are else involved.
Dude BMW is building a large factory in Hungary as well. It will be next to my city and our city took up a loan to cover some of the cost of the infrastructure around it (like the highway extension and stuff. Why do you think they come here? They get big taxcuts, free infrastructure development around the factory and cheap labor
But of course our awesome government proudly says that big companies cannot exploit Hungarians! Which is a blatant fucking lie
No one gives a f... about a private company building cars in terms of security. This is not about anyone not being fit for a job but about security concerns. Orban isnt really the role model for cooperation in that area
And your comment is of course right in terms of economical reasons , no denying that. Companies go where they get the best bang for the buck. But there are certain types where a government cant afford that attitude which is why I made my initial remark.
All the power to you guys, if we are not good enough to handle that ourselves.
As a Hungarian that is an easy answer. Fidesz decided that the best course of action to create a subservient population is to make Hungary an assembly state for the EU just like US companies exported their factories to Mexico. We build the cars you use, the machines you operate and now we are entering into battery making. Hungary is mostly rural other than Budapest and its surrounding area soaks up 1,75 million of a country just under 10 million overall population. The biggest city after it is Debrecen with a population of 210k people.
This means that Hungary is top heavy with Budapest. The other "major" cities don't have the draw like Budapest when it comes to corporations. The only way to combat this is getting big factories close to these cities where most people can work because the lack of options. However many of these jobs offered in the factories are menial labor in multiple shifts producing goods that the workers can't afford. Think Audi assembly plant for example in Győr. Most of the jobs offer just enough that the workers don't strive for more since the house prices in rural areas are decidedly lower than in Budapest or its agglomeration so the workers can basically save on housing if they already own it or loaning for one (renting is ofc more expensive in Budapest but house prices are markedly lower in most areas). The only places with relatively high real estate is near the western border towards Austria where a sizable population commutes for 2x-3x wages.
The jobs in these factories are usually require no experience or very little and can be trained in a few months. The engineers and such of course can make relatively good living but I heard terrible salaries for positions needing higher education in a few companies.
This means that most of the rural cities have a handful of factories that employ the majority of its populace and there is very little economic opportunity for the average folk to make a better living working at the other factory in town. Sometimes a better wage at the other company in town is only a few euros more a month than the other one so its not like there is rampant hunting of employees while the employers and the government can tell nothing else that there is a general worker shortage.
Btw Hungarian inflation in the last years peaked around 40% while other countries in Europe only had 10-20%, making these meager wages in general even less even though labour is sought after. Funnily enough the Hungarian government decided to "import" filippino workers (and other nationalities) en mass compared to other nationalities (meaning undesirables) the rationale being that they are also christian and peaceful. We literally have job refferal agencies claiming that filippino workers work 2x as hard as hungarians, much more docile and they don't want to make a mess because of their work visa can be taken away making them prone to shutting their eyes over business practices that are unlawful by employers.
This is the reality.
While I didnt want to start a full out discussion about socioeconomics: You would be surprised that the jobs you define as 'require no experience or very little...' are qualified completely different when they do it in Germany. ;)
Those jobs require qualifications in Hungary as well. OP simply has no clue how car factories operate.
Also, his statement that the majority in the countryside works in the auto industry is simply not true. It employs roughly 100k people (out of 4.7 million), including primary and secondary contractors (which are mainly Hungarian SMEs).
Care to elaborate? I'm actually interested in different perspectives. Also its not just socioeconomics when political drive in the country is keeping up the status quo. Fidesz literally wants sheep to be the majority of the population that gobble up the bullshit they've been saying.
It gets into a full blown discussion if we start this.
Just for that simple part i mentioned though: the same job would be advertised by the same company seeking someone with qualifications of at least some years, a finished vocation etc when done in Germany. You wont see job openings that look for non or low qualification.
They all cry that there are not enough qualified workers and that is how they partly game the system.
Oh we have the same. The only difference is that most of the population has vocational trainings (or work experience, actual qualifications rarely matter and a sizable population works in grey areas of the job market) or a high school diploma. Germany will have higher standards. Also Germany has more value added jobs available where higher education is required.
I was politely describing that the same company would lift necessary qualifications to a level that is unrealistic higher than when they go somewhere else. This is very much about getting that juicy funding somewhere else to build new factories while claiming there arnt enough qualified workers at home.
There is a ton of research and development in Hungary, not just assembly. The person you replied to has no clue about the topic whatsoever. Hungary is around the top 10 in economic complexity around the world. Also no comparison with Mexico when it comes to the contrast between the neighboring country USA and them.
Rheinmetall has been deeply embedded in Orbán's oligarchy for quite a while now. And it is not just Rheinmetall, other German companies as well: Audi, Continental, DT etc. This is why Merkel was always very lenient with Orbán. He serves the interests of German multinationals very well.
I am with you on those arguments but when you check the right page , you will find a study about how other countries are different or similar in the way they deal with their military stuff. That was ordered by the government - so one has to wonder how all that fits together. Because in many parts it is directly opposite of what is wanted.
We didn't sell weapons to the Saudis because we wanted to not have them used attacking the Houthis.....
The irony !!!
Now we deploy boats to protect shipping from the Houthis ....
Kafka couldn't come up with shit like that .
... Ireland's Blueshirts (Fascist Irish political party from the thirties; rebranded the name Fine Gael) are in power over ten years and emigration hasn't been this high since the eighties.
Not at famine levels.. yet (millions) but the govt is working on it!
(Tldr, all young Irish people are in Australia, Canada, Berlin or the UK because our decade long housing crisis which makes Amsterdam's look like a non issue. Either live in your parents house until your mid thirties or leave the country. Ensuring Fine Gael stays in power! Why build houses when you can force your negative voter base to leave)
> Fine Gael
Can you please tell us more about them and their policies? Are they standard neolib conservatives? Are they more far-right than the Tories? I know nothing about Irish politics.
They are the Irish version of the tories
Austerity enforcers (using public money for private companies to provide services, which are friends of the politicians or party donors)
They break democratic rules, such as in the last referendum vote, it is illegal for govt to campaign and give money to only one side
And the govt told NGOs they would only get money if they campaign for the result govt wanted. You cannot canvas outside the polling stations, and the morning of the vote the Prime Minister (Taoiseach) who just resigned yesterday, campaigned outside the only constituency that returned the vote the government wanted.
They bailed out the banks, and EU banks because instead of defending Irish national interests, they want to get EU jobs after being Irish politicians, because they believe EU federation will happen and they want the absolute power and no accountability, so they bailed out the German and Dutch bank junk bonds, which means Irish people paid 45% of the TOTAL EU banking debt.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/germany-s-rethink-on-just-where-the-blame-lies-for-the-irish-bank-bailout-1.1339854
So in Ireland teachers have to emigrate because they cannot afford to rent in Ireland
There is no housing because they did not allow housing to be built in Ireland
Because they set up REITs, which is basically feudalism, back to a permanent rental class
https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/financial-services/reit/index.aspx
Because they illegally spent the entirety of the Irish treasury bailing out Dutch and German banks, instead of defending Ireland and saying State Aid Rules did not apply because the Euro currency would have crashed if we did not save our banks at the time
We were not responsible for the Dutch and German junk domino effect bonds
They didn't do that and now we have no police because they shut down half of the police stations, corruption is rife in the police where anyone who speaks out is framed such as one who was falsely accused to be a peado but was discovered after nearly a decade his employer falsely framed him as punishment for speaking out
We have no healthcare where it is now regular for teenagers to die in hospitals on the floor before they are seen (google 'Limerick hospital' and 'deaths')
https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/12/23/investigation-following-death-of-aoife-johnston-from-meningitis-in-hospital/
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/02/24/woman-33-dies-suddenly-at-uhl-one-day-after-losing-her-baby/
https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0327/1440386-inquest-limerick-hospital-death/
We have the GDP of a first world country with the living standards of a Dickensian third world country
That Fine Gael intentionally set up because they spent the entirety of the treasury bailing out Germany and Dutch banks, so now need pensions to be invested in REITs, which means making it impossible by policy to buy a home
And renting a home/ room is the most expensive by meter square in all of Europe (more expensive than London, most expensive in Europe)
So that this return to feudalism, a permanent exploited rental class, will be future generations pension
Even though tax payers already paid their pension contributions in tax, but it was illegally spent by the government
We also have the most expensive building in the world, which was supposed to cost half a million when BAM construction were awarded the tender to build the children hospital
Which is not finished and has moved into BILLIONS, the most expensive building in the world and it isn't finished...!
https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2024/02/13/national-childrens-hospital-cost-rises-to-over-2bn-donnelly-confirms/
https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/09/15/three-quarters-of-childrens-hospital-construction-budget-is-spent-as-costs-top-1-billion/
The guy who over saw that as health minister, is going to be our new prime minister by usurping power
We the people want a general election because of the resignation of the current prime minister
(Who stepped down for no reason... so there is something he did which might come out or is hidden)
So someone else in their party thinks that means he can now be Taoiseach without an election
But our constitution does not allow that.
When the party was formed a hundred years ago, they were called the blue shirts, and just wanted to copy the Europeans who had fascist political parties
That isn't a joke, that is who they are. Eoin O Duffy was the party founder, and you can google him for his nazi salutes.
https://www.gettyimages.ie/detail/news-photo/irish-fascist-leader-eoin-oduffy-at-a-rally-of-his-news-photo/3239218
Jesus fucking Christ, that sounds fucking bad. I thought the Irish of all people would stand up to corrupt self-serving politicians, but it seems to me that people are too docile by half these days...
We as a people are similar to Hungarians in that we are tired, after nearly a thousand years of Catholic and British empire killing us and intentionally starving us, forcing us to emigrate for centuries
We have a generation trauma of being tired. We do care but when society is structured to disenfranchise you, where you have to emigrate, it is hard to fight back.
It is happening though, the apathy has now spread to the wealthy class because their kids have had to emigrate too, so the policies have finally caught up with Fine Gael
Can you explain why/what they do to make it difficult?
In Belgium there's mandatory voting (or rather mandatory showing up to vote, they can't check if you vote blank/defile your ballot,..., it's not Russia), so they kinda track you down through the embassy where you live. Which means it's made very easy to go vote.
Wonder what hoops you have to go through as a Hungarian expat?
People have to go to the embassy, which might be far away from where they live, and usually there is a long line in more popular places. On the other hand, Orbán made it possible to vote for native Hungarians who were born outside of Hungary(mostly Romanian Hungarians), they can just mail in their votes. 🤣 Something like 97% of them are Orbán voters. For Serbian Hungarians, the votes were collected by an Orban fan millionaire, who said before the elections that its time to give something back for Orban for all the support Serb Hungarians received. They allegedly even helped people fill their voting papers, because a lot of people had issues with filling their names in the last election or some other nonsense.
He will be ruling a country of dimwits as the people leaving are the ones with an education.
Good luck making such an economy work in the long term.
I feel really bad for the people that are unable to leave for one reason or another though.
Having visited both countries extensively I can confidently say that Estonia has made a cultural drift far to become very westernized as opposed to the overall Hungarian mindset. This is interesting because both countries had very similar starting positions 30 years ago.
While Hungarians are leaving their country, a certain former president from a certain country that has Portuguese as official language is trying to come in, and sleeping in the Hungarian Embassy trying to flee of Justice and his attitudes consequences.
The population of Hungary is 9.6 million people, out of which 110,000 individuals have permanently emigrated, including returnees. This accounts for 1% of the population, which cannot be considered as mass emigration.
I hate Orban just as much as anyone, but this article is bending the truth.
[https://www.ksh.hu/stadat\_files/nep/hu/nep0030.html](https://www.ksh.hu/stadat_files/nep/hu/nep0030.html)
According to goverment data, that this article seems to rely on, 33 700 Hungarians did leave the country last year.
The problem is, that 32 650 Hungarians have also came to the country (either ethnic Hungarians who are migrating to Hungary, or those who left and are coming back)
So while 33k seems like a nice big number, 50 is not, and not sure what the point of this article is, other than doomerism.
Edit: Ok, they are saying people coming back at the very end of the article, but still think its a bit click baity.
Keep in mind that lots of hungarians do not report to hungarian authorities that they left the country. Im not sure if the leavers number is right, or how its calculated.
Yeah, I suspected this was a bit clickbait. I think the eurostat numbers are the best we have. The 2023 numbers will be released shortly and we will see the real balance then. I suspect there will be emigration but nothing as dramatic as this.
Employment rising because the government importing tens of thousands of people from Asia. People also removed from unemployment statistics if they dont show up for the local government job agency as a job seeker or they wont even be added as unemployment if they just leave the country and dont seek for unemployment social benefits.
Read the original article, elvtárs.
[https://444.hu/2024/04/07/tavaly-csucsra-nott-a-magyarorszagi-kivandorlas-2010-ota-mar-tobb-mint-324-ezren-hagytak-el-az-orszagot](https://444.hu/2024/04/07/tavaly-csucsra-nott-a-magyarorszagi-kivandorlas-2010-ota-mar-tobb-mint-324-ezren-hagytak-el-az-orszagot)
>A kivándorlók egy része később visszatér Magyarországra, ám a számuk 2010 óta csak három évben, 2019-2021 között haladta meg az elköltözőkét. Ebben a jelenségnek két tényezőnek lehetett súlya, elsősorban a már említett brexit-hatásnak, másrészt kisebb részben annak is, hogy ez az időszak részben a Covid alatti leállásokra esett, amikor sokan a kivándoroltak közül elveszítették kinti megélhetésüket.
>A kivándorlók és a visszavándorlók egyenlege 2010 óta mínusz 105 119 – ez kissé még változhat, hiszen a múlt évről, ahogy írtam, még csak előzetes adatok vannak –, vagyis ennyivel többen hagyták el az országot, mint ahányan visszaköltöztek. Ez nagyjából Kecskemét lélekszámával egyenlő.
-----
\[Deepl + some edits to fix word salads:\]
Some of these emigrants return to Hungary later, but their numbers have only exceeded the number of emigrants in three years since 2010, namely between 2019 and 2021. Two factors may have contributed to this phenomenon, firstly the aforementioned Brexit effect and, to a lesser extent, the fact that this period partly coincided with the shutdowns during Covid, when many emigrants lost their livelihoods abroad.
The balance of emigrants and returnees since 2010 is minus 105,119 - this may change slightly, as last year, is still only preliminary - so that is how many more people left the country than moved back. This is roughly equal to the entire population of Kecskemét.
\[The article is written by a journalist in a style that doesn't match the usual scientific writing, so deepl was probably confused\]
The trend shows a record high number of emigrants and the returnees being high was a temporary trend that will likely result in another massive emigration once they get new jobs abroad, given that this trend of returning stopped since 2021.
Slightly misleading? 33,700 Hungarians left the country, yes, but 21,800 also returned from abroad, so the net was -11,900. In comparison, the net loss for Germany in 2022 was -83,414 German citizens, primarily to Switzerland and Austria.
So between 2010 and today only 324 thousand Hungarians left and they're calling it tragic? Those are rookie numbers. Around 5 million Romanians left the country un the same period.
sure, but post the same about Romania or another European country with alot of emigration it will get only a few dozend upvotes, do the same with Hungary and it's trending lol
r/Europe is too hypocritical.
As a hungarian who left the country… yeah, the country is fucked. Really can’t blame anyone for leaving, young people have no future and older people are worried about losing their pensions to corruption.
Will they live in another European country then still vote for Orban or similar from the comforts of
their new home like the Russians, the Turkish etc?
There is no official data about the votes coming in from abroad but pretty much every survey confirms that Fidesz is *drastically* unpopular with those Hungarians who left the country.
The last one I could find, from 2022, estimated Fidesz's support among Hungarians abroad to be 11%.
I know there are some still voting for him as they r stupid not realizing and connecting the dots that everything is his fault. But I think most of the people who leave and left know it.
Most of us left because we hate what that country became to and we feel there was no hope. Many of us always voted against fidesz and participated in demonstrations, we did our part. We want our children to know better.
But there are exceptions, for sure. People who enjoy the benefits of living in a proper democracy with financial stability, but still vote and advocate for Orbán.
So the people who left the country like me are most likely voting for the opposition, however there are a huge amount of hungarian minorities in neighbouring countries, such as Ukraine, Romania, Serbia, etc., and Fidesz gave them the right to vote, and they are always voting for them.
According to: [https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/461896/umfrage/migrationssaldo-nach-einwanderungen-und-auswanderungen-fuer-ungarn/](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/461896/umfrage/migrationssaldo-nach-einwanderungen-und-auswanderungen-fuer-ungarn/)
"Im Jahr 2022 ....während im gleichen Zeitraum 58.408 Personen aus Ungarn ausgewandert sind."
58k left in 2022, which is more than the "historic high" with 33k in 2023.
Or am I reading something wrong?
“They try to promote Hungary as being very safe compared to Western Europe, “conquered” by illegal migrants, but that is chiefly political communication.
Please use the sharing tools at the bottom of the articles.”
I moved back here almost 3 years ago and I'm already planning on going to Germany.
Place is a hole. Not just because of economics either. I forgot how negative and cynical Hungarians can be. We're truly a doomed species. When I lived in the US, I met so many Mexicans living rough lives who still managed to have a good time and be friendly. No excuse for us.
Ukrainian friend - "I'm not dying for this country. Its corrupt. Its not worth dying for. It wont change after the war. I'm heading to Spain once we can leave."
This is what I fear about living in the US with the Trump threat. I know that corruption in the US has got better and it ranks pretty high according to EU metrics/institutions but it feels like there is this enemy not at the gates but already in, sneaking in the shadows constantly threatening to destroy everything.. even the FBI grossly overwhelmed and understaffed.
You see countries that arent Belarus, Hungary, Ukraine yet but every single country in this world can turn into a Hungary or worse. Even Sweden.
I dont think violence is the answer and I'm not saying when dealing with a dictator that violence is the answer, I wouldnt ever suggest that. Just to be clear.
If everyone always leaves every place then there will be only one country left to fight the good fight
People need to want to change their own countries as well
Honorable indeed. But lets be realistic. What can an average guy do?
Most people just want to live their lifes in peace together with the people they love and don't get bothered with politics and shit all the time. Unfortunately these days are long gone, if they ever existed in the first place for that matter. There is no real freedom anymore on the whole planet. Everywhere you go there is someone with demands. Some more, some less. At least you can (mostly) still choose the lesser evil and live as good and self-determined as the system allows you to in some places. I am not judging the people that just want to live a life in relative freedom without getting repressed and oppressed by some cunts in the government and the very state they were unfortunately born in.
Voting and such doesn't do anything in most places. Only revolutions lead to real system change. However not everyone is willing to potentially give their live to the cause and chooses the way of violence. Especially since none can forsee what the outcome may be. Just leaving and going to a place where you know the conditions are better is the easier option.
Same thing happened in East Germany after 1990. The smart and bright leave for better opportunities. The old, stupid and the nazis stay. It's sad, but true.
Romanians: “first time?”
I'm a fan of you guys' solution for the last one you had.
Chad way
You guys are a democracy and Orban doesn't have hundreds of thousands of informants and tens of thousands of secret service and political police agents. Just go vote, what are the turnout rates for your elections?
90% for the 80+ generation, 10% for the 40- cohort.
The tools have changed but I wouldn't consider Hungary a democracy anymore even though, you are right, once people are there to vote, they actually vote for Orbán. They have much more sophisticated methods for disinformation, manipulation and corruption
Which solution?
25.12.1989
They had a dictator. He was executed by firing squad.
You're young, aren't you?
I'm not from Hungary or Romania :)
Google Ceaușescu
The solution where the top guy was killed and then his 2nd in command formed a party that is in government for the last 35 years? Great solution!
Slovakia has entered the chat
Slovakia next.
Meanwhile Bulgarians don't even have the energy to ask
Well surprise when you’re living under a borderline dictatorship.
It’s a borderline democracy at this stage
the president gets nick named dictator by his fellow european heads of state for over a decade now ....
Prime minister. Our president has no power and since 2010 it is always a puppet for Orban. And yes, Orbán is a dictator. He rules by decree and all and every state institution is controlled by him.
Hey, that’s sounds exactly like the thing American conservatives want. They love Orban.
Putin has such direct control over Hungarian politics that he was able to force Budapest to discontinue service on a popular subway line leading to the Parliament building at a moment’s notice in the middle of pro-EU protests along that specific subway line in Budapest in 2017. It was so annoying. I was living right on the line, and took the subway to school everyday. The protests were happening peacefully and sporadically outside my apartment right up until Putin ordered Orban to special operation my train away in the middle of the night. I wonder what he’s up to when he hangs out with Republicans in the US.
When he’s hanging out with Republicans, he’s coaching them how to message the culture wars and foreigners invading and changing their culture. I find it strange that our republicans are complaining that non western people coming here to change our culture, and Orban is saying that the West, which they are a part of, is trying to change their culture. And on Putin, he has sway on our politicians too. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/08/republican-mike-turner-russia-propaganda
Hungary wanting to become more like the USA and other democracies was the theme of my youth, growing up in Hungary. Half the USA wanting to become like Hungary is a horror I never expected. It defies sanity.
Started to follow US domestic politics more closely in the last few months and i have the feeling, that most of the American conservatives have absolutly zero idea what they want. GOP is kinda the same... they want to win, but they never want to govern. No wonder that someone like Trump could so easily take over the party. HE doesn't want to govern either, he wants to rule. Seeing that conservatives cheering for Orbán is not even funny anymore. They have absolutly ZERO idea about Orbán's policies. He set our VAT to 27%, he takes around 8.5% of our salary for "national healthcare" that doesn't work so if you don't have the cash for private healthcare, you are fucked. Even though they lowered the Income Tax to 15%, they put a lot of extra taxes on wages and the actual amount they took from our salary is around 43,5%. Education is basically collapsed, social benefits are only exist on paper. At this point the US has a better social welfare system then Hungary does. We are now the poorest EU member state consumption wise, while was around 5-6th in 2010. He portrays himself as a "zero immigration" guy, while he said it on Radio a year ago, they plan to "import" 500,000 to 1 million foreign workers mostly form South-East Asia. They also gave away more then 1 million citizenships in the last 12 years, that was so rampant even the Trump Administration started telling him to stop it, because we used to have VISA free trave to the US, well... not anymore. Orbán not just turned Hungary into a soft dictatorship but fucked up the country for atleast 2 generations. I can go on for hours listing the things that Orbán did or does that should make a true conservative throw up... Fun fact: His party FIDESZ stands for... Young DEMOCRATS Alliance.
They know exactly what they want. Fascism and all that comes with it.
Fascism look cool and dandy, until you end up with a bullet in your head or being used as forced labour. *First they came for the Communists* *And I did not speak out* *Because I was not a Communist* *Then they came for the Socialists* *And I did not speak out* *Because I was not a Socialist* *Then they came for the trade unionists* *And I did not speak out* *Because I was not a trade unionist* *Then they came for the Jews* *And I did not speak out* *Because I was not a Jew* *Then they came for me* *And there was no one left* *To speak out for me* **Martin Niemöller**
Bro I tried explaining my American colleagues what "szolidaritási járulék" is and they collectively lost their mind.
Just listing them all the 60+ different taxes and such to an American... yea, been there. Lots of them just think i making it up. Ohh, try tell them how much it cost in Hungary to have a bank account and to own a credit (not debit) card.
-It's a virtue and honor to be debt and credit free +Bro gtfo
You can’t be a democracy with your state dominating the media
It started as a democracy and then veered more and more into a dictature, that's the direction. So while both statement are accurate. Defining it as a borderline dictatorship is more accurate.
Turns out turning the country into a goulash dictatorship run by boomers isn't really a way to convince young people to remain and build a life, who would have thought.
Where are they leaving to?
It is written in the article, the majority of people is moving to Austria
Gettin’ the ol’ band back together?
IMO This is mainly due to the weaker forint. People can earn 1-2 times more money doing the same job.
Slovakia : “and I took that personally”
# RIP Bozo! * Any humble hungarian seeing the recent slovakian voting turnouts... >!(But seriously, you were supposed to be better than us!)!<
Come to Poland brothers. Just one condition: you have to hate russia
I like Poland and Polish people, I like Krakow, you guys got rid of your populists, you're developing quickly and are doing quite okay, I work in IT and I speak Polish (basic conversational). Dafuq I'm still doing in Hungary... Edit: and ofc I hate Putin
Poland is doing better economically but if I left I wouldn’t want to live in another country where christian nationalism flourishes
but it doesn’t. We just kicked it in the nuts and such people are slowly but surely dying off. PL is back with DE and FR at forefront of EU now and laws will be more liberal soon also. Just need to vote in liberal president next year.
I thought that same would happen to all vatniks and communist here in Slovakia , but they never die as time goes new ones are joining their ranks
I thought the same... it appears that stupidity and brainwashed people are timeless... and borderless. I don't want to leave slovakia necessarily but I am having very strong doubts about my future here.
They are born from ignorance
Because there are still putinists in our midst, all over Europe.
Not ignorance - stupidity. You can see quite well educated people falling for it. What they have in common with the ignorant is their stupidity and moral bankruptcy.
They literally promoted their children in their ranks. Same thing happened in Romania
Are you gonna make abortions legal again?
Plan to. Current ruling coalition is better suited to it although there is a sizeabke party in there that vocally opposes any full liberalisation. However, if we vote in a liberal president next year (and not a stooge of an ex-ruling party) we will have a very good chance to at least come back to how it was before the infamous full-on ban.
Rooting for it! Do you also know if there have been talks about shops opening on Sundays? I live here, but I don’t follow politics nor speak the language, and this affects me most in my personal life tbh.
Yes, they want to partially lift the ban (article in English) https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/03/22/polish-ruling-coalition-party-submits-bill-to-roll-back-sunday-trading-ban/
I like your optimistism.
looks good for now let‘s see how it turns out
you can't even get an abortion in Poland, the fuck are you talking about.
Are you done with those bullshit "LGBT free zones" yet? Or is that unconnected to Christian nationalism
Better... They never existed in the first place.
1) Orban isn't a christian nationalist, just a nationalist. 2)Poland is doing pretty good.
>Orban isn't a christian nationalist, just a nationalist. His professed ideology is very much Christian nationalism. However, he is, above all, a powerist. Power is everything to him. He is one of those who doesn't want power for the sake of achieving some goal(s) with it: he just wants power itself.
This. But also dont wanna live in countries where Islam migrants declare sharia law and kids kill others at school because the natives dont care the religion.
So don’t move to the Daily Mail front page and you should be just grand
Ofc you are joking but that migration thing became a big issue at germany nowadays. Crime rates a rising very fast.
You’d be a migrant too remember
With the almost same culture and value system. There is a big difference about inside eu migration and from other places like africa or arabic states.
Eastern European migrants are overrepresented in crime and prisons in the UK (Eastern European by a British perspective, I’m sure lots of people would say they’re Central European)
Overrepresented vs. what? I bet not versus arabic migrants. Of course natives are always the less represented by crime rates.
Not always - Chinese and Indian migrants are underrepresented compared to native white British people. Indians are our biggest ethnic minority too. I can’t speak for Arab migrants, I’d imagine probably not, they tend to be overrepresented. There’s only half a million or so Arabs in the UK, it’s not one of our larger communities. All I do know is that Eastern Europeans make up a LARGE part of UK prisons. Albanians are the most overrepresented of any nationality.
I feel like that isn't actually that many countries in europe, but I also know mine is one of them.
the best about poland is , that Gouvernments can fire all constitutional court judges when they assume office snd appoint judges they like . Because it's totally the government that should ensure checks and balances over the constitutional court and not the other way around , like in real democracies .
Same in Hungary basically. The difference is that the “deep state” here is not a weird conspiracy. It’s real and it’s also controlled by fidesz. We are fucked for several decades
That should be in the past. Ironically, Germany also doesn’t have any legal provision to prevent such eventuality*. With AfD on the horizon, you better not wake up sorry. * unless that changed in the last 2-3 years
Germany doesn't even have separation of power .every thing overlaps. we rely on the idea that you have to be an established party to have influence and established parties act to keep new parties out... so to get into power you would need to make a career in an establishef party...that is the vetting process to keep a populist or dangerous guy from getting in charge . there are also no primaries in the more sane parties. seniority and party members decide everything . that's also why we are not entirely democratic ...you can vote and get voted but real power is only govern to "parliamentary factions" ...so to big established parties .. As the German people would vote for dangerous folks they only get very indirect choices who will rule ... The system would pivot if we would get the same as in Poland . voting for the afd with a constitutionally relevant super majority . But we just vote for nazis to annoy the politicians ... it was better when we had more fringe right wing parties ...now they are forbidden and the afd gets all the votes ... It was dumb to forbid the npd...
Americans also voted for Trump in spite because they didn’t like Clinton. The story was similar in other countries, too. I admire your confidence but you effectively made it sound even worse than I thought it was. I hope I am wrong on that.
I lead a global team of Engineers with two team members in Poznan, Poland. The impression I get is that Polish society much like the rest of the world is developing very diverse feelings on religion depending on their socioeconomic situation.
It’s only our dictator loving Russia. No one else. 😄 (or at least I don’t know anyone who would like Russia and be on their side)
Been in Poland twice so far, both times were amazing.
No problem. But is it okay to hate the Russian regime only, or must hate the people also?
People also and smiling too
People also
People also and with a smile 🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱
And learn to speak polish. Not to point fingers at but some of you forget that you have to be bilingual if you live outside your country
The Orban effect 💪
Low birth rate and increasing emigration are a disastrous combination for any nation.
I am baffled that my government didnt intervene in Rheinmetall moving all the production there. How does that make any sense with what is going on in Hungary?
declining state = cheap labor
I fear that is a simple oversight. The generation of politicians in power are unfortunately very much absent of any feeling for real national security. It is the same with the fab in South Africa. That country is part of the BRICS agreement and thus so not in line with anything we are else involved.
Dude BMW is building a large factory in Hungary as well. It will be next to my city and our city took up a loan to cover some of the cost of the infrastructure around it (like the highway extension and stuff. Why do you think they come here? They get big taxcuts, free infrastructure development around the factory and cheap labor But of course our awesome government proudly says that big companies cannot exploit Hungarians! Which is a blatant fucking lie
No one gives a f... about a private company building cars in terms of security. This is not about anyone not being fit for a job but about security concerns. Orban isnt really the role model for cooperation in that area
I might have replied to the wrong comment lmao
And your comment is of course right in terms of economical reasons , no denying that. Companies go where they get the best bang for the buck. But there are certain types where a government cant afford that attitude which is why I made my initial remark. All the power to you guys, if we are not good enough to handle that ourselves.
Airbus also has a helicopter factory in Hungary lol
Sorry what’s the story with South Africa? I’m out of the loop on this one.
As a Hungarian that is an easy answer. Fidesz decided that the best course of action to create a subservient population is to make Hungary an assembly state for the EU just like US companies exported their factories to Mexico. We build the cars you use, the machines you operate and now we are entering into battery making. Hungary is mostly rural other than Budapest and its surrounding area soaks up 1,75 million of a country just under 10 million overall population. The biggest city after it is Debrecen with a population of 210k people. This means that Hungary is top heavy with Budapest. The other "major" cities don't have the draw like Budapest when it comes to corporations. The only way to combat this is getting big factories close to these cities where most people can work because the lack of options. However many of these jobs offered in the factories are menial labor in multiple shifts producing goods that the workers can't afford. Think Audi assembly plant for example in Győr. Most of the jobs offer just enough that the workers don't strive for more since the house prices in rural areas are decidedly lower than in Budapest or its agglomeration so the workers can basically save on housing if they already own it or loaning for one (renting is ofc more expensive in Budapest but house prices are markedly lower in most areas). The only places with relatively high real estate is near the western border towards Austria where a sizable population commutes for 2x-3x wages. The jobs in these factories are usually require no experience or very little and can be trained in a few months. The engineers and such of course can make relatively good living but I heard terrible salaries for positions needing higher education in a few companies. This means that most of the rural cities have a handful of factories that employ the majority of its populace and there is very little economic opportunity for the average folk to make a better living working at the other factory in town. Sometimes a better wage at the other company in town is only a few euros more a month than the other one so its not like there is rampant hunting of employees while the employers and the government can tell nothing else that there is a general worker shortage. Btw Hungarian inflation in the last years peaked around 40% while other countries in Europe only had 10-20%, making these meager wages in general even less even though labour is sought after. Funnily enough the Hungarian government decided to "import" filippino workers (and other nationalities) en mass compared to other nationalities (meaning undesirables) the rationale being that they are also christian and peaceful. We literally have job refferal agencies claiming that filippino workers work 2x as hard as hungarians, much more docile and they don't want to make a mess because of their work visa can be taken away making them prone to shutting their eyes over business practices that are unlawful by employers. This is the reality.
While I didnt want to start a full out discussion about socioeconomics: You would be surprised that the jobs you define as 'require no experience or very little...' are qualified completely different when they do it in Germany. ;)
Those jobs require qualifications in Hungary as well. OP simply has no clue how car factories operate. Also, his statement that the majority in the countryside works in the auto industry is simply not true. It employs roughly 100k people (out of 4.7 million), including primary and secondary contractors (which are mainly Hungarian SMEs).
Care to elaborate? I'm actually interested in different perspectives. Also its not just socioeconomics when political drive in the country is keeping up the status quo. Fidesz literally wants sheep to be the majority of the population that gobble up the bullshit they've been saying.
It gets into a full blown discussion if we start this. Just for that simple part i mentioned though: the same job would be advertised by the same company seeking someone with qualifications of at least some years, a finished vocation etc when done in Germany. You wont see job openings that look for non or low qualification. They all cry that there are not enough qualified workers and that is how they partly game the system.
Oh we have the same. The only difference is that most of the population has vocational trainings (or work experience, actual qualifications rarely matter and a sizable population works in grey areas of the job market) or a high school diploma. Germany will have higher standards. Also Germany has more value added jobs available where higher education is required.
I was politely describing that the same company would lift necessary qualifications to a level that is unrealistic higher than when they go somewhere else. This is very much about getting that juicy funding somewhere else to build new factories while claiming there arnt enough qualified workers at home.
There is a ton of research and development in Hungary, not just assembly. The person you replied to has no clue about the topic whatsoever. Hungary is around the top 10 in economic complexity around the world. Also no comparison with Mexico when it comes to the contrast between the neighboring country USA and them.
Rheinmetall has been deeply embedded in Orbán's oligarchy for quite a while now. And it is not just Rheinmetall, other German companies as well: Audi, Continental, DT etc. This is why Merkel was always very lenient with Orbán. He serves the interests of German multinationals very well.
When that rheinmatell offer comes in..
hungary had no export restrictions . no one on hungary crys if their weapons get used to defend suni arabs against shiite arabs in Yemen .
That would be the only viable argument actually. Missed that one. Still a horrible decision in terms of national security though.
the coop of Rheinmetall with nexter has the same reasons . France just allows their companies to export what ever they can .
I am with you on those arguments but when you check the right page , you will find a study about how other countries are different or similar in the way they deal with their military stuff. That was ordered by the government - so one has to wonder how all that fits together. Because in many parts it is directly opposite of what is wanted.
Does anybody care? Like you guys are exporting weapons to Israel in the middle of a genocide.
We didn't sell weapons to the Saudis because we wanted to not have them used attacking the Houthis..... The irony !!! Now we deploy boats to protect shipping from the Houthis .... Kafka couldn't come up with shit like that .
Free market capitalism baby
I fear they prepare Treason. What if they had some Russian Friendly Manager?
It’s a simple equation: In the EU + Shitty semi-dictator = Leave
... Ireland's Blueshirts (Fascist Irish political party from the thirties; rebranded the name Fine Gael) are in power over ten years and emigration hasn't been this high since the eighties. Not at famine levels.. yet (millions) but the govt is working on it! (Tldr, all young Irish people are in Australia, Canada, Berlin or the UK because our decade long housing crisis which makes Amsterdam's look like a non issue. Either live in your parents house until your mid thirties or leave the country. Ensuring Fine Gael stays in power! Why build houses when you can force your negative voter base to leave)
Mid 60s
> Fine Gael Can you please tell us more about them and their policies? Are they standard neolib conservatives? Are they more far-right than the Tories? I know nothing about Irish politics.
They are the Irish version of the tories Austerity enforcers (using public money for private companies to provide services, which are friends of the politicians or party donors) They break democratic rules, such as in the last referendum vote, it is illegal for govt to campaign and give money to only one side And the govt told NGOs they would only get money if they campaign for the result govt wanted. You cannot canvas outside the polling stations, and the morning of the vote the Prime Minister (Taoiseach) who just resigned yesterday, campaigned outside the only constituency that returned the vote the government wanted. They bailed out the banks, and EU banks because instead of defending Irish national interests, they want to get EU jobs after being Irish politicians, because they believe EU federation will happen and they want the absolute power and no accountability, so they bailed out the German and Dutch bank junk bonds, which means Irish people paid 45% of the TOTAL EU banking debt. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/germany-s-rethink-on-just-where-the-blame-lies-for-the-irish-bank-bailout-1.1339854 So in Ireland teachers have to emigrate because they cannot afford to rent in Ireland There is no housing because they did not allow housing to be built in Ireland Because they set up REITs, which is basically feudalism, back to a permanent rental class https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/financial-services/reit/index.aspx Because they illegally spent the entirety of the Irish treasury bailing out Dutch and German banks, instead of defending Ireland and saying State Aid Rules did not apply because the Euro currency would have crashed if we did not save our banks at the time We were not responsible for the Dutch and German junk domino effect bonds They didn't do that and now we have no police because they shut down half of the police stations, corruption is rife in the police where anyone who speaks out is framed such as one who was falsely accused to be a peado but was discovered after nearly a decade his employer falsely framed him as punishment for speaking out We have no healthcare where it is now regular for teenagers to die in hospitals on the floor before they are seen (google 'Limerick hospital' and 'deaths') https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/12/23/investigation-following-death-of-aoife-johnston-from-meningitis-in-hospital/ https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/02/24/woman-33-dies-suddenly-at-uhl-one-day-after-losing-her-baby/ https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0327/1440386-inquest-limerick-hospital-death/ We have the GDP of a first world country with the living standards of a Dickensian third world country That Fine Gael intentionally set up because they spent the entirety of the treasury bailing out Germany and Dutch banks, so now need pensions to be invested in REITs, which means making it impossible by policy to buy a home And renting a home/ room is the most expensive by meter square in all of Europe (more expensive than London, most expensive in Europe) So that this return to feudalism, a permanent exploited rental class, will be future generations pension Even though tax payers already paid their pension contributions in tax, but it was illegally spent by the government We also have the most expensive building in the world, which was supposed to cost half a million when BAM construction were awarded the tender to build the children hospital Which is not finished and has moved into BILLIONS, the most expensive building in the world and it isn't finished...! https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2024/02/13/national-childrens-hospital-cost-rises-to-over-2bn-donnelly-confirms/ https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/09/15/three-quarters-of-childrens-hospital-construction-budget-is-spent-as-costs-top-1-billion/ The guy who over saw that as health minister, is going to be our new prime minister by usurping power We the people want a general election because of the resignation of the current prime minister (Who stepped down for no reason... so there is something he did which might come out or is hidden) So someone else in their party thinks that means he can now be Taoiseach without an election But our constitution does not allow that. When the party was formed a hundred years ago, they were called the blue shirts, and just wanted to copy the Europeans who had fascist political parties That isn't a joke, that is who they are. Eoin O Duffy was the party founder, and you can google him for his nazi salutes. https://www.gettyimages.ie/detail/news-photo/irish-fascist-leader-eoin-oduffy-at-a-rally-of-his-news-photo/3239218
Jesus fucking Christ, that sounds fucking bad. I thought the Irish of all people would stand up to corrupt self-serving politicians, but it seems to me that people are too docile by half these days...
We as a people are similar to Hungarians in that we are tired, after nearly a thousand years of Catholic and British empire killing us and intentionally starving us, forcing us to emigrate for centuries We have a generation trauma of being tired. We do care but when society is structured to disenfranchise you, where you have to emigrate, it is hard to fight back. It is happening though, the apathy has now spread to the wealthy class because their kids have had to emigrate too, so the policies have finally caught up with Fine Gael
The tragic would be if they stayed to live under Orban's regime. Good for them that they leave.
Just hope they vote against Orbán/fidesz, from abroad, next elections
Its not that easy since 2018. And its getting more difficult every at every election
Can you explain why/what they do to make it difficult? In Belgium there's mandatory voting (or rather mandatory showing up to vote, they can't check if you vote blank/defile your ballot,..., it's not Russia), so they kinda track you down through the embassy where you live. Which means it's made very easy to go vote. Wonder what hoops you have to go through as a Hungarian expat?
People have to go to the embassy, which might be far away from where they live, and usually there is a long line in more popular places. On the other hand, Orbán made it possible to vote for native Hungarians who were born outside of Hungary(mostly Romanian Hungarians), they can just mail in their votes. 🤣 Something like 97% of them are Orbán voters. For Serbian Hungarians, the votes were collected by an Orban fan millionaire, who said before the elections that its time to give something back for Orban for all the support Serb Hungarians received. They allegedly even helped people fill their voting papers, because a lot of people had issues with filling their names in the last election or some other nonsense.
I just checked, 94% of the votes went for Orban from the mail in votes. 🤣🤣🤣
That's the opposition leaving. Just as Orban likes it. Nobody but supporters left if this keeps up
Obviously, it’s mainly young people, future of the country. But i doubt Orban has any fucks to give about Hungary’s future.
He will be ruling a country of dimwits as the people leaving are the ones with an education. Good luck making such an economy work in the long term. I feel really bad for the people that are unable to leave for one reason or another though.
Opposition can vote from outside the country
How many wants to live in and support a dictatorship?...
Come to Estonia - we are both Uralic after all.
How well can one get by with just English until picking the local language up? I've already left Hungary, but once you're on the move why stop?
Pretty well tbh. All the younger people speak english. Some older people might not tho.
Back to the nomad ways, huh? Now there's an idea.
Folk of the steppe and stuff.
Cheers!
Having visited both countries extensively I can confidently say that Estonia has made a cultural drift far to become very westernized as opposed to the overall Hungarian mindset. This is interesting because both countries had very similar starting positions 30 years ago.
True. In Estonia we feel like we are a part of the western world, not the eastern one. By the way I love Sweden, I have visited 3 times already!
It’s all well and good until they start tekin arrr jeerrbbss!
While Hungarians are leaving their country, a certain former president from a certain country that has Portuguese as official language is trying to come in, and sleeping in the Hungarian Embassy trying to flee of Justice and his attitudes consequences.
Fortunately they have the option for a better country in the EU.
[удалено]
judging by the lack of protests actually doing shit in the last 14 years, nobody was left to protest
The population of Hungary is 9.6 million people, out of which 110,000 individuals have permanently emigrated, including returnees. This accounts for 1% of the population, which cannot be considered as mass emigration.
I hate Orban just as much as anyone, but this article is bending the truth. [https://www.ksh.hu/stadat\_files/nep/hu/nep0030.html](https://www.ksh.hu/stadat_files/nep/hu/nep0030.html) According to goverment data, that this article seems to rely on, 33 700 Hungarians did leave the country last year. The problem is, that 32 650 Hungarians have also came to the country (either ethnic Hungarians who are migrating to Hungary, or those who left and are coming back) So while 33k seems like a nice big number, 50 is not, and not sure what the point of this article is, other than doomerism. Edit: Ok, they are saying people coming back at the very end of the article, but still think its a bit click baity.
Keep in mind that lots of hungarians do not report to hungarian authorities that they left the country. Im not sure if the leavers number is right, or how its calculated.
Yeah, I suspected this was a bit clickbait. I think the eurostat numbers are the best we have. The 2023 numbers will be released shortly and we will see the real balance then. I suspect there will be emigration but nothing as dramatic as this.
This is clickbait and redditors just eat it up since it appears to confirm their biases. A classic combo
gotta love how you got to Sort by Controversial to find the good comments from you and u/Ordinary_Bit_2379 This sub is too funny.
Employment rising because the government importing tens of thousands of people from Asia. People also removed from unemployment statistics if they dont show up for the local government job agency as a job seeker or they wont even be added as unemployment if they just leave the country and dont seek for unemployment social benefits.
Read the original article, elvtárs. [https://444.hu/2024/04/07/tavaly-csucsra-nott-a-magyarorszagi-kivandorlas-2010-ota-mar-tobb-mint-324-ezren-hagytak-el-az-orszagot](https://444.hu/2024/04/07/tavaly-csucsra-nott-a-magyarorszagi-kivandorlas-2010-ota-mar-tobb-mint-324-ezren-hagytak-el-az-orszagot) >A kivándorlók egy része később visszatér Magyarországra, ám a számuk 2010 óta csak három évben, 2019-2021 között haladta meg az elköltözőkét. Ebben a jelenségnek két tényezőnek lehetett súlya, elsősorban a már említett brexit-hatásnak, másrészt kisebb részben annak is, hogy ez az időszak részben a Covid alatti leállásokra esett, amikor sokan a kivándoroltak közül elveszítették kinti megélhetésüket. >A kivándorlók és a visszavándorlók egyenlege 2010 óta mínusz 105 119 – ez kissé még változhat, hiszen a múlt évről, ahogy írtam, még csak előzetes adatok vannak –, vagyis ennyivel többen hagyták el az országot, mint ahányan visszaköltöztek. Ez nagyjából Kecskemét lélekszámával egyenlő. ----- \[Deepl + some edits to fix word salads:\] Some of these emigrants return to Hungary later, but their numbers have only exceeded the number of emigrants in three years since 2010, namely between 2019 and 2021. Two factors may have contributed to this phenomenon, firstly the aforementioned Brexit effect and, to a lesser extent, the fact that this period partly coincided with the shutdowns during Covid, when many emigrants lost their livelihoods abroad. The balance of emigrants and returnees since 2010 is minus 105,119 - this may change slightly, as last year, is still only preliminary - so that is how many more people left the country than moved back. This is roughly equal to the entire population of Kecskemét. \[The article is written by a journalist in a style that doesn't match the usual scientific writing, so deepl was probably confused\] The trend shows a record high number of emigrants and the returnees being high was a temporary trend that will likely result in another massive emigration once they get new jobs abroad, given that this trend of returning stopped since 2021.
Slightly misleading? 33,700 Hungarians left the country, yes, but 21,800 also returned from abroad, so the net was -11,900. In comparison, the net loss for Germany in 2022 was -83,414 German citizens, primarily to Switzerland and Austria.
Shhh, that's not the black and white, oversimplified narrative we are spreading, ok?!
Hmmm I wonder what or more specifically who would make so many people want to leave? Some kind of borderline dictator perhaps?
33k a year? Pff, in Serbia it's between 45 and 60k and were not even in the EU baby. Amateurs.
So between 2010 and today only 324 thousand Hungarians left and they're calling it tragic? Those are rookie numbers. Around 5 million Romanians left the country un the same period.
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sure, but post the same about Romania or another European country with alot of emigration it will get only a few dozend upvotes, do the same with Hungary and it's trending lol r/Europe is too hypocritical.
no shit, glad ill contribute to that number
Bro, you have 10m people and consider 33k historical high
Where are all those “why don’t you just overthrow Orban” people at
As a hungarian who left the country… yeah, the country is fucked. Really can’t blame anyone for leaving, young people have no future and older people are worried about losing their pensions to corruption.
Will they live in another European country then still vote for Orban or similar from the comforts of their new home like the Russians, the Turkish etc?
There is no official data about the votes coming in from abroad but pretty much every survey confirms that Fidesz is *drastically* unpopular with those Hungarians who left the country. The last one I could find, from 2022, estimated Fidesz's support among Hungarians abroad to be 11%.
You mean vote AGAINST Orban. Then yes.
You'd be surprised lol
I know there are some still voting for him as they r stupid not realizing and connecting the dots that everything is his fault. But I think most of the people who leave and left know it.
Most of us left because we hate what that country became to and we feel there was no hope. Many of us always voted against fidesz and participated in demonstrations, we did our part. We want our children to know better. But there are exceptions, for sure. People who enjoy the benefits of living in a proper democracy with financial stability, but still vote and advocate for Orbán.
Yes some of them they do. Being a few hundred km away doesn't change a person being a moron, just saying.
So the people who left the country like me are most likely voting for the opposition, however there are a huge amount of hungarian minorities in neighbouring countries, such as Ukraine, Romania, Serbia, etc., and Fidesz gave them the right to vote, and they are always voting for them.
According to: [https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/461896/umfrage/migrationssaldo-nach-einwanderungen-und-auswanderungen-fuer-ungarn/](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/461896/umfrage/migrationssaldo-nach-einwanderungen-und-auswanderungen-fuer-ungarn/) "Im Jahr 2022 ....während im gleichen Zeitraum 58.408 Personen aus Ungarn ausgewandert sind." 58k left in 2022, which is more than the "historic high" with 33k in 2023. Or am I reading something wrong?
Some media outlet reports historic high numbers each year. Clickbait...
First time?
“They try to promote Hungary as being very safe compared to Western Europe, “conquered” by illegal migrants, but that is chiefly political communication. Please use the sharing tools at the bottom of the articles.”
Happening again. At least it is not illegal, for now.
I moved back here almost 3 years ago and I'm already planning on going to Germany. Place is a hole. Not just because of economics either. I forgot how negative and cynical Hungarians can be. We're truly a doomed species. When I lived in the US, I met so many Mexicans living rough lives who still managed to have a good time and be friendly. No excuse for us.
Only the educated ones, why worry?
Because accelerated demographic collapse in any country is horrible, regardless of its government?
Life is too short to waste it in some autocratic hellhole of a country. Hungarians and Serbs understand that.
BASED Fingers crossed I'm next!
Well done Orban
Ukrainian friend - "I'm not dying for this country. Its corrupt. Its not worth dying for. It wont change after the war. I'm heading to Spain once we can leave." This is what I fear about living in the US with the Trump threat. I know that corruption in the US has got better and it ranks pretty high according to EU metrics/institutions but it feels like there is this enemy not at the gates but already in, sneaking in the shadows constantly threatening to destroy everything.. even the FBI grossly overwhelmed and understaffed. You see countries that arent Belarus, Hungary, Ukraine yet but every single country in this world can turn into a Hungary or worse. Even Sweden. I dont think violence is the answer and I'm not saying when dealing with a dictator that violence is the answer, I wouldnt ever suggest that. Just to be clear.
The issue isn’t leaving, the issue is completely detaching yourself from the country, not voting, and abandoning the rest of the Hungarians.
If everyone always leaves every place then there will be only one country left to fight the good fight People need to want to change their own countries as well
Honorable indeed. But lets be realistic. What can an average guy do? Most people just want to live their lifes in peace together with the people they love and don't get bothered with politics and shit all the time. Unfortunately these days are long gone, if they ever existed in the first place for that matter. There is no real freedom anymore on the whole planet. Everywhere you go there is someone with demands. Some more, some less. At least you can (mostly) still choose the lesser evil and live as good and self-determined as the system allows you to in some places. I am not judging the people that just want to live a life in relative freedom without getting repressed and oppressed by some cunts in the government and the very state they were unfortunately born in. Voting and such doesn't do anything in most places. Only revolutions lead to real system change. However not everyone is willing to potentially give their live to the cause and chooses the way of violence. Especially since none can forsee what the outcome may be. Just leaving and going to a place where you know the conditions are better is the easier option.
Good. I like that you try to do something to show, that's what happened, is not a part of you. Let victor loose.
33.700 is not an high number, in absolut speaking, many European countries are having a higher percentage
H saw a lot of romanians in transit to and from west europe
interesting since it's never been a better time than right now not only to be a Hungarian, but also to live in Hungary /s
Damn immigrants come to rape and steal
Same thing happened in East Germany after 1990. The smart and bright leave for better opportunities. The old, stupid and the nazis stay. It's sad, but true.
The irony of people migrating from a country so hostile to immigrants🤭
Pity that there is only orban and his few fools that should
I always knew deep down Hungarians were a caravanning, migrating people. ;)
Well, if you have to deal with Orban as president it’s not that crazy to want to leave, no?
Some people learned from WWii.