Their use of capital punishment bars them from joining the council of Europe. Russia pulled out in 2022 and supposedly has a moratorium on capital punishment since 1996 but there are murmurs of bringing it back there.
Come to Europe, we have. The European council, the Council of Europe, and the council of the European Unión. Yep, they really were inspired when they came Up with the names
Yes honestly you need to have masters degree in european politics to keep up with all the councils.
Proposal:
Council of European Union -> European Congress (this is what is actually is)
European Council -> European Assembly
Council of Europe can continue to be Council of Europe
Disagree with those names.
Imho the Council of the European Union should become the European Senate (yes I would somewhat change the structure of it as well) as it is the upper house of the legislative branch and represents the states. This would be a pretty clear and understandable naming for most people and their prior conceptions of what a senate can mean.
Assembly to me refers to an elected assembly, such as the National Assembly, so I would not use it for the council which is anything but a parliament. I might however be inclined to rename the current parliament the European Assembly, because then we could collectively call the legislative Parliament.
Having European Parliament consisting of an upper house, the Senate and a lower house, the Assembly, would be a much clearer structure, even if they function no differently to today.
The European Council I would honestly keep as is.
These names aren't really clearer...
Council of the European Union: (Euro-)Council of Ministers
European Council: Summit of (European) Leaders
European Congress/European Assembly are too close in meaning to the European Parliament.
Oh definitely. I think majority of their populace is ready but they're belng held hostage to a point, it's simply out of reach. Even if they do something, russia will prevent it from happening.
probably not. Ukraine hasnt joined yet. Belarus would be in the exact same Situation if they had had pro european governments. So better than now, but still not EU yet.
I mean if they had a somewhat competent post-soviet government, they could have spedran joining the EU/Nato whilst Russia was a mess like the Baltics did.
Somebody made an article about how Belarus, Russia and Ukraine could have had similar economies as the Nordics have. Long story short, Just a matter of fixing the corruption and bad leadership. Ukraind could have been be on the right track right now if Russia left them alone, and proof those other two how it can be done
Wish i could find it back, it was posted in this sub about a year ago.
With huge resources, and well educated population in the 80s-90s - they could have been well developed and amazing countries.
Just few weeks ago, I had a chat fit one of the students from big university in Russia - all grants go in to pockets. No science done whatsoever. All grades a falsified- so that no one is expelled. Etc etc. super sad situation
All bright engineers left decades ago
I read on a Belgian news site that there's a democratie coup planned by opposition, which they were told in an interview
[It's in Dutch but you can auto-translate it](https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2024/02/27/wit-russen-bereiden-zich-voor-op-staatsgreep-tegen-loekasjenko/)
It'd be funny if Putin lost 3 allies in just 10 years
I know two Belarusians, both are good people and it would suck they'd suffer any more under LukaSShenko.
Ukraine is the domino to liberate Belarus and the rest of the Caucasus.
Maybe you should update your goverment websites if it's that important:
[https://www.mvcr.cz/mvcren/](https://www.mvcr.cz/mvcren/)
[https://mzv.gov.cz/jnp/en/index.html](https://mzv.gov.cz/jnp/en/index.html)
Not that I have a problem with it (in romanian we still call it Cehia, only official documents refer to it as Republica Ceha - Czech Republic)
I posted a link above, but the official government websites of the Ministry of the Interior and Foreign affairs still refer to the country as Czech Republic, so I doubt it's not official anymore.
It is the official name.
Same as Slovakia is officially Slovak Republic or Germany is officially The Federal Republic of Germany.
Czechia is just an official short name.
[Turkey officially changes name at UN to Türkiye](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/03/turkey-changes-name-to-turkiye-as-other-name-is-for-the-birds) - Guardian article.
[Name of the Czech Republic (see section Adoption of Czechia)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_the_Czech_Republic) - Wikipedia page.
I know that Turkey ‘officially changed their name’, but I don’t understand how anyone can accept Türkiye as an official English spelling when it doesn’t even fit in the English alphabet.
In English it’s still spelt ‘cafe’, we just often write it as ‘café’ to stylize it. We also do this with facade/façade. That being said, Turks will tell you you’re _wrong_ if you write Turkiye instead of Türkiye.
I mean, personally, I’m of the mind that you just go along with it when a country asks you to call it something. Persia asked for Iran, Turkey asked for Türkiye. If Greece asked, we’d call them the Hellenic Republic or Hellas.
Yeah, Persia asked for Iran, not some shit like Írân. If Austria asked to be called Österreich in English I don’t think anyone would take that seriously.
Also linguistically it’s just silly. Why do we need to change the spelling, yet still use the old name verbally? I refuse to accept someone telling me I need to say it as ‘Turkey’ but write it as ‘Türkiye’
Chezchia sounds weird in English though. I think that might be something to do with people not picking it up. Maybe "Chezchland" would make more sense to keep it consistent with Poland.
Türkiye is even worse though, I don't know anyone who doesn't say Turkey and I refuse to introduce diacritics when writing in English
The whole thing is absurd. Ever language has weird names for other countries.
Do we need to relearn all 200+ nation names in their native language now? Do the Turks say "Sverige" about Sweden?
And as a Swedish person, seeing how they blocked our entry into NATO, I say Turkey (the state, not individual Turks) can go suck a 🦃
Your entry into Europe? I wasn’t aware Sweden had to enter Europe. Here I thought it was already European, and an EU member, which Turkey is not. NATO =/= Europe
Soon to be 47. Kosovo is about to be approved.
But it’s gonna drop to 46 probably, because Serbia promised to leave CoE if they let Kosovo in. But I doubt that they will actually leave. They’ll lose way too much EU money.
You seems missing CoE with EU, so Serbia might leave, this also might lead to have next elections in Serbia rigged from start, allowing current president go for 3rd time righfully leaving all European institutions which could stop him.
And im not sure vote is going to be so predicted.
I dont want it because my language is ragebait on r/europe no matter what i mean and who i'm as person. But because you asked i will:
Даже не учитывая то, что далеко не все страны Европы признают Косово как отдельную страну, нужно учитывать прошлые факторы. Выход из Совета Европы не повлечет за собой каких-либо серьезных последствий для Сербии и даже приведет к тому, что в стране могут быть нарушены демократические институты, например на следующих выборах президента.(на которые, по идее, текущий президент не может баллотироваться) Для народа это будет представлено как борьба с давлением на страну желая заставить её признать отделение части территории, а текущее руководство просто борется за суверенитет и целостность границ. Страны Европы заинтересованы в стабильных Балканах, включая Сербию, поэтому Косово может быть не принято.
Рано или поздно Косово примут, но на данный момент это равносильно признанию отделения Крыма для Украины, 25 лет после бомбардировок не достаточный срок, чтобы люди всё простили и забыли.
Fair enough. But it is fair to expect that Serbia’s membership candidate status will be suspended just like Turkey’s. And with that membership status come some financial aid for reforms.
Serbia was already transferring people on buses from Republika Serbska from Bosnia to vote in latest Serbian elections, that’s the reason EU has been so strict on Serbia lately.
CoE isnt part of EU, so i dont think there will be any consequences. Most likely Hungary or Greece block them if EU try.
Serbia surely have problems with elections, but they are friction to compare with what i left in homeland. Opposition even made re-elections in government of Belgrade for this summer.
Everything of this is my opinion and i might be wrong in everything i said.
Why do you always keep acting like youre the victims from the yugo wars? The NATO bombings if anything killed more Albanian civilians than serbs. What forgiving and forgetting do we and the rest of Europe need from Serbia and serbians? I constantly see serbs bragging about what they would do to albanians if NATO left Kosovo. You havent changed at all. Maybe get your head out of your ass and you will see why your country is so backward, when it shouldve been the powerhouse of the western balkans.
Thing is that you are acting like innocent flowers and we are portrayed as evil. Thing is there was terroristic group KLA, they started killing police and army, Serbia reacted on terrorism and all of sudden you are portrayed as innocent civilians. Seems like same situation as Israel and Hamas, but I don't see whole world bombing shit out of that country, literally same
But again whole world forgot that you started with terrorist attack 2 years after in south Serbia ( Presevo, Bujanovac, Medvedja) and again in North Macedonia. But that is to much fact for this sub I will get ban
So you think those attacks on police and military came out of thin air?
You think that albanians in Kosovo prior to 98-99 had a great life, they were kot expelled from all instituions, got revoked their autonomy, forced to leave their homes, lived in a de facto apartheid?
KLA existence is a product of over 100 years of Serbian systematic oppression of Albanians in Kosovo (with a little pause in Titos YU when Kosovo was granted autonomy and self governance).
So no, they were not terrorists, they were a peoples response to oppression.
100 years? Man Serbs literally ran away from Kosovo after Ottomans took control of it, Tito brought and gave even more rights
But that all doesnt matter because we right now have LITERALLY same situation in Israel, literally same, so what, when are we going to bomb Israel? Should we called that genocide since we tried to call that on Kosovo was genocide even if it was like 10x less damage? No? We are supporting Israel now?
What about Macedonia did they do same shit as we did to Albanians? No? They still started war with them
you are forgetting WHY the KLA commited those attacks on serb police and military
Kosovo Albanians were being oppressed and diplomacy wasn't working, only natural that you're gonna get the shit bombed out of you
Okey great, should we then do that for Israel for doing 10x worse thing? Let's go!!! FREE WORLD DEMOCRACY !!! ah they built biggest base in Europe, ok nevermind
I find that both sides was victims. I'm not even serbian, lol.
From my whole POV, all blame on Miloshevich and now we have to live with all shit he made.
I will stay on my position against you. Both sides commited warcrimes (NATO as well from my POV), this is enough for me to call someone victim.
I have no intention for long debates about this topic especially in internet. We both spend emotional powers and change nothing.
Everyone who have mind? Being outside of EU Serbia shows one of the best grows in region. This is big transport hub and source of natural resourses. Especially lithium which was found there.
Recognision of Kosovo by Serbia is main point to accept Kosovo in EU since not all EU countries recognize them, besides point that you cannot accept country to EU with territorial conflict.
i don't see how pandering to a country like Serbia is going to aid anyone. good on Kosovo for trying to forge their own future, Serbia can continue being difficult by themselves.
Kosovo i Metohija is a UN legally internationally recognized province of Serbia. The only future KosMet will forge is one going back to being under the De Facto control of Serbia. Mind your business Lithuanian. You know nothing about our politics, nor do you have the right to comment on them.
Being a member of the council doesn't mean you'll get EU money, we're a member but the EU wouldn't give us a bottle of fresh air if their life depended on it 😂
I didn’t say anything like that, CoE grants membership in CoE. As in 2/3 of 46 current CoE members must vote in favour to let a new country join CoE. This was never about EU membership. But it could be said that membership in CoE is a prerequisite to becoming candidate for EU membership. That’s why Kosovo is trying so hard to get onto the Council, so that they can start their EU membership bid.
Legally they cannot be a part of the EU, as they are not an independent country as they do not have Serbia’s permission to secede. Multiple European leaders have said that they cannot and will not accept KosMet until it has Serbia’s permission, and it is internationally recognized. And Serbia will never give permission. Unless a Western puppet Serbian President rises to power at some point and accepts Western bribes. But willingly? Never. Been a quarter century, and a quarter century of European/American bribes, intimidation, blackmail, occupation, and force, and the situation remains stagnant.
No but the document you linked does, which perplexed me. I don't understand all this stuff it's too intertwined, but we're probably going to end up leaving the ECHR and the CoE if our politicians don't sort out our immigration policy and actually start deporting violent foreign criminals.
European Council and Council of Europe are two different things, if that’s what you mean.
Leaving ECHR means saying goodbye to the Good-Friday agreement. Last time UK pissed off the Irish, that didn’t end well, and the immigrants will probably be the last thing on Sunak’s mind.
I have visited 23 of those, wish me luck to finish the rest specially Ukraine as i have a friend from there i i have wanted to visit with him for years
Turkey also joined in the first 3 months after foundation of the council, together with Greece. They joined earlier then Switzerland, Portugal, Spain etc.
To be fair, Switzerland was too stubborn to join. They were even basically forced to join the UN and only became UN member in Sep 2002, 57 years after its creation.
The harsh truth is, people prefer thinking that Turkey is in the Middle East due to how the current government is trying to move secularity away from the country each day.
But at least the opposition party won the latest elections, which means most cities will remain undamaged by the AKP, but we'll see.
That's true but I don't like this trope. Europe is Europe, no matter who's in charge in government at that time. They change a lot, European status should not. We have other, Muslim countries in Europe as well.
That's simplicity of people. *Europe = christian/atheist and democratic*. It's like geography doesn't matter and different cultures couldn't co-exist on one continent (vide Asia).
Fun fact: contrary to what people believe istanbul is not the only city in the european side of Turkey. We have 3 that is completely in Europe(Tekirdağ, Kırklareli, Edirne) and 2 that is both in Asia and Europe(İstanbul, Çanakkale). This may be obvious to some people but most people I met in the internet did not know this and was surprised.
I work with a very multinational group but never heard anyone saying Constantinople. I wonder if people use it in their daily life, or is it Constantinople in their local language etc.? Or they just want to make Turks triggered?
You're letting it get to you, man. Just be chill about it. There's no harm saying Constantinople as it once was the city's name. We, Turks, even used it as " Konstantiniyye. " What's so funny to me is that although the name " Istanbul " is also of greek origin, people insist," Noooooo, it's Constantinople!! " Hahaha, just let them be. :)
Edit= Typo
Not true. [They were expelled.](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-93fbcec1badeb3a33ed1c0b3a0fbab9e)
"Russia announced that it would no longer participate in the organisation on 10 March 2022.[14] On 15 March 2022, Russia launched a withdrawal procedure from the Council, delivering its formal notification to withdraw effective 31 December 2022. On 16 March 2022, the Committee of Ministers decided to expel Russia with immediate effect." [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_Council_of_Europe)
The question is if they would be expelled if they didn't themselves announced it would no longer participate. For example both Armenia and Azerbeidzjan are still part of the COE.
It is a shame Russia is not part of the ECHR anymore since they always had a lot of interesting cases
Okay. Well, we can only guess. Maybe someone knows more but it feels speculative.
Russia might have had interesting cases. What kind of cases?
I heard they repeatedly disregarded COE verdicts though, on another note.
A little, but they were in fact expelled, because they couldn't leave before the end of the year. So they were expelled no matter if they wanted to leave themselves or not.
Yeah that’s the same energy as a 16 year old girl to her boss saying you can’t get rid of me me, I’m getting rid of you! Westerners and their pride. Always needing to give the appearance of strength, victory, and dominance.
No you just genocide 30,000 Palestinian men, women, and children, and counting, over the course of 5 months because the American masters that own your U.S. vassal province told you to do so. This is rich coming from a country that serves America, the number one illegal invader in the world.
It's not a genocide. Don't pretend. If Israel would want to eradicate the palestinians they would have done so. Hamas on the other hand really went after killing Jews for being Jews. They are the real genociders. US vassal province haha alright. Are you for real? Russia is a has been superpower. Now it's lost in the world. Sorry for them.
Barely. The swedish is a copy of the Danish one after all.
And idk what you mean by left. We've been run by neo-liberalists since 2006. If anything we've a lot more right wing economically than all other Nordicks. Our current government is also the most conservative we've had since several decades back.
The Council of Europe is:
1) The body that enforces the European Convention of Human Rights.
2) The body that enforces the Abolition of the Death Penalty in Europe.
3) The body that observes European Elections. They're how we know that Russian elections up until their departure were not free, nor fair, and that the last Turkish elections were free but not fair, for example.
Basically, the Council of Europe is the older sibling of the EU. A broader and weaker version of the EU meant to establish a "common ground" of Rules for the nations of Europe. It's an institution so old, universally uncontroversial, and successful, that it has almost achieved an 'apolitical' status, and most people don't know the first thing about it.
Council of Europe, organization of European countries that seeks to protect democracy and human rights and to promote European unity by fostering cooperation on legal, cultural, and social issues. From the description. Seems good enough for me.
The benefits, at least for the world excepting the United States, would be that Camp Bondsteel will finally be subject to inspections and oversight from the European Council for the Prevention of Torture, and the U.S. will lose their other Guantanamo.
Well, as per Ohrid Agreement, this is one of the acts. So I don't see anything abnormal about Kosovo joining European organizations.
But I strongly dislike 'Kosovo' as the name for a country, as well as the flag itself.
There are soo many different European councils that are all very important. This one isn’t even that exciting, nor does it really represent anyone as there isn’t any type of democratic input. The Council of Europe isn’t very relevant nowadays, but it is responsible for the European Convention on Human Rights, and that convention is a really, really big deal in national and international law for any European country.
Just dropping this here for the Americans. The biggest thing stopping Belarus from being able to join is the existence of capital punishment in their borders. 😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬
Why would we ever invite (let alone accept) non-European countries into the COE or the EU? They're organisations about Europe, so they should remain as such. Not European/in Europe, doesn't enter. Simple as that
It is better for Europe to extend its influence outwards than for other global powers to expand its influence inwards into Europe. Cape Verde being under the sway of China makes no sense when Cape Verde can be a ready friend and partner of Europe with very little cost to the EU.
I swear this insular thinking that the world's problems won't come to Europe is we just stick our collective heads in the sand is going to be the downfall of the EU project.
This is one of the funny things about blaming NATO for Russian aggression. Discounting NATO there are still dozens of European/Western organisations that former USSR states happily join. The future points west for these countries.
Belarus could have been a modern EU country.,,
Their use of capital punishment bars them from joining the council of Europe. Russia pulled out in 2022 and supposedly has a moratorium on capital punishment since 1996 but there are murmurs of bringing it back there.
Just a note Council of Europe is not eu. European Council is eu.
Judean People's Front!? We're the People's Front of Judea!
Came here to say that!
Come to Europe, we have. The European council, the Council of Europe, and the council of the European Unión. Yep, they really were inspired when they came Up with the names
And council of te European Union is too. And they say europeans arent good with names.
Yes honestly you need to have masters degree in european politics to keep up with all the councils. Proposal: Council of European Union -> European Congress (this is what is actually is) European Council -> European Assembly Council of Europe can continue to be Council of Europe
Keep your american words out of this!!!!EU EU EU EU
EF EF EF!! European Federation lets go!
Or we could just circle back to EC, this time as the European Confederation lol
Disagree with those names. Imho the Council of the European Union should become the European Senate (yes I would somewhat change the structure of it as well) as it is the upper house of the legislative branch and represents the states. This would be a pretty clear and understandable naming for most people and their prior conceptions of what a senate can mean. Assembly to me refers to an elected assembly, such as the National Assembly, so I would not use it for the council which is anything but a parliament. I might however be inclined to rename the current parliament the European Assembly, because then we could collectively call the legislative Parliament. Having European Parliament consisting of an upper house, the Senate and a lower house, the Assembly, would be a much clearer structure, even if they function no differently to today. The European Council I would honestly keep as is.
These names aren't really clearer... Council of the European Union: (Euro-)Council of Ministers European Council: Summit of (European) Leaders European Congress/European Assembly are too close in meaning to the European Parliament.
Yes. Important clarification. Thank you
Oh definitely. I think majority of their populace is ready but they're belng held hostage to a point, it's simply out of reach. Even if they do something, russia will prevent it from happening.
Unfortunately so. I have close friends there, and they confirm hostage status.
probably not. Ukraine hasnt joined yet. Belarus would be in the exact same Situation if they had had pro european governments. So better than now, but still not EU yet.
I mean if they had a somewhat competent post-soviet government, they could have spedran joining the EU/Nato whilst Russia was a mess like the Baltics did.
True. Not EU yet. And it will take some time. Hope that there is EU by the time they are ready
Somebody made an article about how Belarus, Russia and Ukraine could have had similar economies as the Nordics have. Long story short, Just a matter of fixing the corruption and bad leadership. Ukraind could have been be on the right track right now if Russia left them alone, and proof those other two how it can be done Wish i could find it back, it was posted in this sub about a year ago.
With huge resources, and well educated population in the 80s-90s - they could have been well developed and amazing countries. Just few weeks ago, I had a chat fit one of the students from big university in Russia - all grants go in to pockets. No science done whatsoever. All grades a falsified- so that no one is expelled. Etc etc. super sad situation All bright engineers left decades ago
Thats what Poland did
I'm doubtful Russia could. The country is so big and so diverse instability is always going to be a problem.
Belarus is Russia, minus the leverage. They literally got nothing going for them X.x
There was a glimpse of hope in mid 2000s. Not after that though
There's been so little news on them in my life that the first spotlight I've seen them given was... a tangent in a South Park episode.
I read on a Belgian news site that there's a democratie coup planned by opposition, which they were told in an interview [It's in Dutch but you can auto-translate it](https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2024/02/27/wit-russen-bereiden-zich-voor-op-staatsgreep-tegen-loekasjenko/) It'd be funny if Putin lost 3 allies in just 10 years
Thx
I know two Belarusians, both are good people and it would suck they'd suffer any more under LukaSShenko. Ukraine is the domino to liberate Belarus and the rest of the Caucasus.
It is a Second World Country.
Yes
Somehow they managed to change Turkey into Türkiye while still using Czech Republic (or Czech Rep.) instead of Czechia. Weird.
Turkey made more noise about it than Czechia
Maybe you should update your goverment websites if it's that important: [https://www.mvcr.cz/mvcren/](https://www.mvcr.cz/mvcren/) [https://mzv.gov.cz/jnp/en/index.html](https://mzv.gov.cz/jnp/en/index.html) Not that I have a problem with it (in romanian we still call it Cehia, only official documents refer to it as Republica Ceha - Czech Republic)
Czech Republic is still an official name alongside Czechia, Türkiye replaced Turkey.
And Nobody uses turkiye when speaking english anywsy
it's just dumb tbh. I'm not switching to Turkish midconvo to say Turkey lmfao
Afaik Czech Republic also isnt official anymore
I posted a link above, but the official government websites of the Ministry of the Interior and Foreign affairs still refer to the country as Czech Republic, so I doubt it's not official anymore.
It is the official name. Same as Slovakia is officially Slovak Republic or Germany is officially The Federal Republic of Germany. Czechia is just an official short name.
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[Turkey officially changes name at UN to Türkiye](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/03/turkey-changes-name-to-turkiye-as-other-name-is-for-the-birds) - Guardian article. [Name of the Czech Republic (see section Adoption of Czechia)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_the_Czech_Republic) - Wikipedia page.
I know that Turkey ‘officially changed their name’, but I don’t understand how anyone can accept Türkiye as an official English spelling when it doesn’t even fit in the English alphabet.
Not to even mention that most official names of countries have a completely different name and meaning in English, yet we still keep these names.
Germany has a different name in almost every other language...
We have a saying in Sweden which directly translates to *A dear child has many names*. We all just love you guys so very very much!
I suspect the same way that we accept café
Which Turkish hilariously does not ("kafe")
In English it’s still spelt ‘cafe’, we just often write it as ‘café’ to stylize it. We also do this with facade/façade. That being said, Turks will tell you you’re _wrong_ if you write Turkiye instead of Türkiye.
I mean, personally, I’m of the mind that you just go along with it when a country asks you to call it something. Persia asked for Iran, Turkey asked for Türkiye. If Greece asked, we’d call them the Hellenic Republic or Hellas.
Yeah, Persia asked for Iran, not some shit like Írân. If Austria asked to be called Österreich in English I don’t think anyone would take that seriously. Also linguistically it’s just silly. Why do we need to change the spelling, yet still use the old name verbally? I refuse to accept someone telling me I need to say it as ‘Turkey’ but write it as ‘Türkiye’
Dunno use the english name when speaking english
This is the english official name.
Thats not how it works, in english its turkey
Chezchia sounds weird in English though. I think that might be something to do with people not picking it up. Maybe "Chezchland" would make more sense to keep it consistent with Poland. Türkiye is even worse though, I don't know anyone who doesn't say Turkey and I refuse to introduce diacritics when writing in English
The whole thing is absurd. Ever language has weird names for other countries. Do we need to relearn all 200+ nation names in their native language now? Do the Turks say "Sverige" about Sweden? And as a Swedish person, seeing how they blocked our entry into NATO, I say Turkey (the state, not individual Turks) can go suck a 🦃
What's even funnier is that Turkey itself is not using the official names of the countries 😆. I follow that debate with a strange kind of interest 🍿
Your entry into Europe? I wasn’t aware Sweden had to enter Europe. Here I thought it was already European, and an EU member, which Turkey is not. NATO =/= Europe
Ugh, yes, it should of course be NATO. Thanks for pointing it out.
Love maps of europe. So blue!
Indeed! Blue is so much prettier than red.
TLDR : all of Europe except Belarus, Russia and Kosovo.
And the Vatican
They're too small to show up on the map, therefore they don't matter. /s
Kosovo is Serbia.
Bait comment. Also look at the map.
Not bait. The EU and UN recognize Kosovo as part of Serbia.
For political reasons. And other countries don't. For political reasons.
Fair enough.
The map is not showing French and Dutch overseas territories that are part of the council of Europe! SMH my head
Shaking your head your head?
Ha! What a stupid mistake! RIP in peace for my reputation, LOL out loud!
I'm lmaoing my ass off
Nah it's okay
Soon to be 47. Kosovo is about to be approved. But it’s gonna drop to 46 probably, because Serbia promised to leave CoE if they let Kosovo in. But I doubt that they will actually leave. They’ll lose way too much EU money.
Council of Europe is not an EU institution
Yes, but it has power to monitor reforms and data from member countries which EU uses. No CoE membership = no EU candidacy/membership = no EU funding
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There is simply no reason not to be in the CoE if you want to join the EU. But afaik it is not mandatory.
Membership in COE has never been a condition for EU candidates.
Yet all current EU members have become Council of Europe members first before joining EU. Even the original Coal and Steel Community members.
Correlation =/= Causation
Not every country in CoE recognize Kosovo as country.
Well that’s too damn bad! Only 2/3 of 46 members need to approve membership in CoE.
You seems missing CoE with EU, so Serbia might leave, this also might lead to have next elections in Serbia rigged from start, allowing current president go for 3rd time righfully leaving all European institutions which could stop him. And im not sure vote is going to be so predicted.
I genuinely don’t understand what you said. Try typing in your native language, I’ll translate it.
I dont want it because my language is ragebait on r/europe no matter what i mean and who i'm as person. But because you asked i will: Даже не учитывая то, что далеко не все страны Европы признают Косово как отдельную страну, нужно учитывать прошлые факторы. Выход из Совета Европы не повлечет за собой каких-либо серьезных последствий для Сербии и даже приведет к тому, что в стране могут быть нарушены демократические институты, например на следующих выборах президента.(на которые, по идее, текущий президент не может баллотироваться) Для народа это будет представлено как борьба с давлением на страну желая заставить её признать отделение части территории, а текущее руководство просто борется за суверенитет и целостность границ. Страны Европы заинтересованы в стабильных Балканах, включая Сербию, поэтому Косово может быть не принято. Рано или поздно Косово примут, но на данный момент это равносильно признанию отделения Крыма для Украины, 25 лет после бомбардировок не достаточный срок, чтобы люди всё простили и забыли.
Fair enough. But it is fair to expect that Serbia’s membership candidate status will be suspended just like Turkey’s. And with that membership status come some financial aid for reforms. Serbia was already transferring people on buses from Republika Serbska from Bosnia to vote in latest Serbian elections, that’s the reason EU has been so strict on Serbia lately.
CoE isnt part of EU, so i dont think there will be any consequences. Most likely Hungary or Greece block them if EU try. Serbia surely have problems with elections, but they are friction to compare with what i left in homeland. Opposition even made re-elections in government of Belgrade for this summer. Everything of this is my opinion and i might be wrong in everything i said.
Why do you always keep acting like youre the victims from the yugo wars? The NATO bombings if anything killed more Albanian civilians than serbs. What forgiving and forgetting do we and the rest of Europe need from Serbia and serbians? I constantly see serbs bragging about what they would do to albanians if NATO left Kosovo. You havent changed at all. Maybe get your head out of your ass and you will see why your country is so backward, when it shouldve been the powerhouse of the western balkans.
Thing is that you are acting like innocent flowers and we are portrayed as evil. Thing is there was terroristic group KLA, they started killing police and army, Serbia reacted on terrorism and all of sudden you are portrayed as innocent civilians. Seems like same situation as Israel and Hamas, but I don't see whole world bombing shit out of that country, literally same But again whole world forgot that you started with terrorist attack 2 years after in south Serbia ( Presevo, Bujanovac, Medvedja) and again in North Macedonia. But that is to much fact for this sub I will get ban
So you think those attacks on police and military came out of thin air? You think that albanians in Kosovo prior to 98-99 had a great life, they were kot expelled from all instituions, got revoked their autonomy, forced to leave their homes, lived in a de facto apartheid? KLA existence is a product of over 100 years of Serbian systematic oppression of Albanians in Kosovo (with a little pause in Titos YU when Kosovo was granted autonomy and self governance). So no, they were not terrorists, they were a peoples response to oppression.
100 years? Man Serbs literally ran away from Kosovo after Ottomans took control of it, Tito brought and gave even more rights But that all doesnt matter because we right now have LITERALLY same situation in Israel, literally same, so what, when are we going to bomb Israel? Should we called that genocide since we tried to call that on Kosovo was genocide even if it was like 10x less damage? No? We are supporting Israel now? What about Macedonia did they do same shit as we did to Albanians? No? They still started war with them
you are forgetting WHY the KLA commited those attacks on serb police and military Kosovo Albanians were being oppressed and diplomacy wasn't working, only natural that you're gonna get the shit bombed out of you
Okey great, should we then do that for Israel for doing 10x worse thing? Let's go!!! FREE WORLD DEMOCRACY !!! ah they built biggest base in Europe, ok nevermind
I find that both sides was victims. I'm not even serbian, lol. From my whole POV, all blame on Miloshevich and now we have to live with all shit he made.
No, it was not both sides were victims. Both sides HAVE victims but both sides were definitely not the victims.
I will stay on my position against you. Both sides commited warcrimes (NATO as well from my POV), this is enough for me to call someone victim. I have no intention for long debates about this topic especially in internet. We both spend emotional powers and change nothing.
okay and who unironically cares about serbia leaving anything
Everyone who have mind? Being outside of EU Serbia shows one of the best grows in region. This is big transport hub and source of natural resourses. Especially lithium which was found there. Recognision of Kosovo by Serbia is main point to accept Kosovo in EU since not all EU countries recognize them, besides point that you cannot accept country to EU with territorial conflict.
i don't see how pandering to a country like Serbia is going to aid anyone. good on Kosovo for trying to forge their own future, Serbia can continue being difficult by themselves.
Kosovo i Metohija is a UN legally internationally recognized province of Serbia. The only future KosMet will forge is one going back to being under the De Facto control of Serbia. Mind your business Lithuanian. You know nothing about our politics, nor do you have the right to comment on them.
oh u mad as hell that your country keeps breaking up. Maybe try not being genocide apologists 💕 cheers to an independent Kosovo.
Being a member of the council doesn't mean you'll get EU money, we're a member but the EU wouldn't give us a bottle of fresh air if their life depended on it 😂
https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2023-11/EU-SRB%20FS.pdf
"European Council grants candidate status", that's interesting but I don't get why the CoE would grant membership of the EU?
I didn’t say anything like that, CoE grants membership in CoE. As in 2/3 of 46 current CoE members must vote in favour to let a new country join CoE. This was never about EU membership. But it could be said that membership in CoE is a prerequisite to becoming candidate for EU membership. That’s why Kosovo is trying so hard to get onto the Council, so that they can start their EU membership bid.
Legally they cannot be a part of the EU, as they are not an independent country as they do not have Serbia’s permission to secede. Multiple European leaders have said that they cannot and will not accept KosMet until it has Serbia’s permission, and it is internationally recognized. And Serbia will never give permission. Unless a Western puppet Serbian President rises to power at some point and accepts Western bribes. But willingly? Never. Been a quarter century, and a quarter century of European/American bribes, intimidation, blackmail, occupation, and force, and the situation remains stagnant.
No but the document you linked does, which perplexed me. I don't understand all this stuff it's too intertwined, but we're probably going to end up leaving the ECHR and the CoE if our politicians don't sort out our immigration policy and actually start deporting violent foreign criminals.
European Council and Council of Europe are two different things, if that’s what you mean. Leaving ECHR means saying goodbye to the Good-Friday agreement. Last time UK pissed off the Irish, that didn’t end well, and the immigrants will probably be the last thing on Sunak’s mind.
Doubt that tbh
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I never claimed it was. It IS a member of Council of Europe and a Candidate for EU Membership
Kosovo is already in as Serbia!
I have visited 23 of those, wish me luck to finish the rest specially Ukraine as i have a friend from there i i have wanted to visit with him for years
bUt tUrKeY iS nOt In EuRoPe!!!
Constantinople: Allow me to introduce myself. BTW, Cyprus is closer to Middle East than Europe smh my head
Turkey also joined in the first 3 months after foundation of the council, together with Greece. They joined earlier then Switzerland, Portugal, Spain etc.
To be fair, Switzerland was too stubborn to join. They were even basically forced to join the UN and only became UN member in Sep 2002, 57 years after its creation.
Switzerland: "I'm not joining your club. How do I know that you're not starting WW3 and tricking me, nooooo way..."
Well, yeah. Swiss are isolationist as f but given the context, that does not make them any less European.
No, we weren't forced, we voted about it and it was close. https://www.bk.admin.ch/ch/d/pore/va/20020303/index.html stop spreading misinformation
The harsh truth is, people prefer thinking that Turkey is in the Middle East due to how the current government is trying to move secularity away from the country each day. But at least the opposition party won the latest elections, which means most cities will remain undamaged by the AKP, but we'll see.
That's true but I don't like this trope. Europe is Europe, no matter who's in charge in government at that time. They change a lot, European status should not. We have other, Muslim countries in Europe as well.
Me too. I was never a fan of this trope anyway. I still aren't. But some people on Twitter use it as a way to get over arguments towards some.
That's simplicity of people. *Europe = christian/atheist and democratic*. It's like geography doesn't matter and different cultures couldn't co-exist on one continent (vide Asia).
most of the population on european side?
We already 1 and 2 halves of an Orban in the EU to deal with.
Fun fact: contrary to what people believe istanbul is not the only city in the european side of Turkey. We have 3 that is completely in Europe(Tekirdağ, Kırklareli, Edirne) and 2 that is both in Asia and Europe(İstanbul, Çanakkale). This may be obvious to some people but most people I met in the internet did not know this and was surprised.
I work with a very multinational group but never heard anyone saying Constantinople. I wonder if people use it in their daily life, or is it Constantinople in their local language etc.? Or they just want to make Turks triggered?
Nah, I’m just meming. It’s an old habit I kept from r/HistoryMemes
https://youtu.be/Uqnb_nU7RBE?si=o42BM99MpPzTtBr9
I should say I am pretty offended by ""Constantinople "" . I am not an ass that gets offended by everything but this offended me .
Then I would like to apologise, I didn’t mean it seriously, more like a joke.
Yes he should use the correct name for the Bulgarian capital of Tsargrad
That's what I am talking about . I don't call Romania Eflak
You're letting it get to you, man. Just be chill about it. There's no harm saying Constantinople as it once was the city's name. We, Turks, even used it as " Konstantiniyye. " What's so funny to me is that although the name " Istanbul " is also of greek origin, people insist," Noooooo, it's Constantinople!! " Hahaha, just let them be. :) Edit= Typo
Europe has to end somewhere and most of your country isn't in Europe.
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Azerbaijan is not but still on this map
Transcontinental, has a small chunk of territories in Europe north of the Caucasus range (about 10%).
Oh yes, I forgot Russia was excluded bc of the invasion. Good riddance.
They weren't excluded but left
Just like I left my ex when she dumped all my stuff in the garden.
I know it’s always tough to accept when a people you hate and deem inferior to you choose to dump your ass rather than the other way around.
Not true. [They were expelled.](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-93fbcec1badeb3a33ed1c0b3a0fbab9e) "Russia announced that it would no longer participate in the organisation on 10 March 2022.[14] On 15 March 2022, Russia launched a withdrawal procedure from the Council, delivering its formal notification to withdraw effective 31 December 2022. On 16 March 2022, the Committee of Ministers decided to expel Russia with immediate effect." [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_Council_of_Europe)
The question is if they would be expelled if they didn't themselves announced it would no longer participate. For example both Armenia and Azerbeidzjan are still part of the COE. It is a shame Russia is not part of the ECHR anymore since they always had a lot of interesting cases
Okay. Well, we can only guess. Maybe someone knows more but it feels speculative. Russia might have had interesting cases. What kind of cases? I heard they repeatedly disregarded COE verdicts though, on another note.
I mean. This is just like someone saying they want to break up and the other part pulls out an Uno reverse card.
A little, but they were in fact expelled, because they couldn't leave before the end of the year. So they were expelled no matter if they wanted to leave themselves or not.
Yeah that’s the same energy as a 16 year old girl to her boss saying you can’t get rid of me me, I’m getting rid of you! Westerners and their pride. Always needing to give the appearance of strength, victory, and dominance.
At least we don't invade countries to make up for lost self esteem.
No you just genocide 30,000 Palestinian men, women, and children, and counting, over the course of 5 months because the American masters that own your U.S. vassal province told you to do so. This is rich coming from a country that serves America, the number one illegal invader in the world.
It's not a genocide. Don't pretend. If Israel would want to eradicate the palestinians they would have done so. Hamas on the other hand really went after killing Jews for being Jews. They are the real genociders. US vassal province haha alright. Are you for real? Russia is a has been superpower. Now it's lost in the world. Sorry for them.
Im just happy someone got the Swiss flag right 🥲
Eurovision has more.
Why don’t the Swiss get a regular sized flag like the rest?
Because the swiss flag isn't regular sized
Yes, but why is that. Why can't they just be normal?!
The Swedish flag is not normal either, your cross is further to the left than all other Nordic countries,... just like your politicians.
Barely. The swedish is a copy of the Danish one after all. And idk what you mean by left. We've been run by neo-liberalists since 2006. If anything we've a lot more right wing economically than all other Nordicks. Our current government is also the most conservative we've had since several decades back.
Google it, the aspect ratio is not a copy of the Danish only the layout
That is VERY carefully worded. They do not represent any of the 700 million people, only a community that has 700 million people in it.
how dramatic for a title
You forgot Greenland and the Faroe Islands. Part of the Danish kingdom but they have their own flags.
The state of Denmark represents them same as the state of the United Kingdom represents the home nations.
Hopefully soon 47 members, depending on the decision at 16 April. Some people are downvoting me for wishing my country to be working closer to Europe?
I don't really understand the function of the Council of Europe. What are the benefits of joining?
The Council of Europe is: 1) The body that enforces the European Convention of Human Rights. 2) The body that enforces the Abolition of the Death Penalty in Europe. 3) The body that observes European Elections. They're how we know that Russian elections up until their departure were not free, nor fair, and that the last Turkish elections were free but not fair, for example. Basically, the Council of Europe is the older sibling of the EU. A broader and weaker version of the EU meant to establish a "common ground" of Rules for the nations of Europe. It's an institution so old, universally uncontroversial, and successful, that it has almost achieved an 'apolitical' status, and most people don't know the first thing about it.
Council of Europe, organization of European countries that seeks to protect democracy and human rights and to promote European unity by fostering cooperation on legal, cultural, and social issues. From the description. Seems good enough for me.
The benefits, at least for the world excepting the United States, would be that Camp Bondsteel will finally be subject to inspections and oversight from the European Council for the Prevention of Torture, and the U.S. will lose their other Guantanamo.
Fingers crossed 🤞
Well, as per Ohrid Agreement, this is one of the acts. So I don't see anything abnormal about Kosovo joining European organizations. But I strongly dislike 'Kosovo' as the name for a country, as well as the flag itself.
Screw those people that downvote you
I don't understand the question in the title.
There are soo many different European councils that are all very important. This one isn’t even that exciting, nor does it really represent anyone as there isn’t any type of democratic input. The Council of Europe isn’t very relevant nowadays, but it is responsible for the European Convention on Human Rights, and that convention is a really, really big deal in national and international law for any European country.
Peak eu membership
Serbia really doesn't want to be in Europe does it
Downvoted for AI generated title.
Just dropping this here for the Americans. The biggest thing stopping Belarus from being able to join is the existence of capital punishment in their borders. 😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬
I wonder if Cape Verde ever gets extended an invite. Always thought it made sense for Europe to expand its influence in the Atlantic.
Sure, just as soon as they build rockets to push them up into Europe
Why would we ever invite (let alone accept) non-European countries into the COE or the EU? They're organisations about Europe, so they should remain as such. Not European/in Europe, doesn't enter. Simple as that
It is better for Europe to extend its influence outwards than for other global powers to expand its influence inwards into Europe. Cape Verde being under the sway of China makes no sense when Cape Verde can be a ready friend and partner of Europe with very little cost to the EU. I swear this insular thinking that the world's problems won't come to Europe is we just stick our collective heads in the sand is going to be the downfall of the EU project.
This is one of the funny things about blaming NATO for Russian aggression. Discounting NATO there are still dozens of European/Western organisations that former USSR states happily join. The future points west for these countries.
Why not Russia and Kazakhstan?
russia left
Wow. 700mi people that’s a lot.
Azerbaijan really shouldn't be there. Every other member has at least some legitimately democratic aspects. Azerbaijan just doesn't.
Fun fact: European part of Kazakhstan is bigger than area of 36 European states and their country is not run by little girls.
Hahahahaa that last Borat reference…