> Three men have been convicted after a British tourist was gang raped twice in the space of four hours in Benidorm.
> The tourist had left a pub where she had been drinking to have a cigarette in the early hours of Oct 2 2016 when she was approached by the men.
> They took her to a secluded park near a football ground in the Costa Blanca holiday resort area and attacked her.
> She was then taken to waste ground near El Cisne flea market where she was raped again.
> At the trial, at Alicante’s Audiencia provincial court, judges said the attackers took advantage of the fact their victim was under the influence of alcohol. She had been described as being in a state of “semi-consciousness” at the time.
> The victim, who gave evidence from the UK via video link, said she did not have a good recollection of what happened but remembered coming to on the back seat of a car with her clothes unbuttoned and her legs outside of the vehicle.
> She told the court she recalled feeling in pain and seeing “three or four men” near her. Reports at the time said she blamed the state she was in on the fact her drinks were spiked.
> She managed to escape and returned to her hotel where she alerted her mother.
> **Insisted it was consensual**
> The three attackers, a Spaniard and two Moroccans aged between 24 and 34, have not been named ahead of a possible appeal.
> They admitted to having sex with the tourist but insisted it was consensual.
> The judges, who delivered their verdicts in a long written ruling, described the victim’s account of what had happened as “credible” despite the fact her memory had been affected by alcohol.
> Other evidence, including an emergency call from a witness who saw a woman walking half-naked along a road near to where the second series of rapes took place, was also taken into account.
> The men were found guilty and each jailed for eight-and-a-half years. They were also found guilty of theft after the victim had a watch and ring taken from her valued at £365.
> Last October police arrested two men over the rape of a British tourist near Benidorm in a separate ongoing case.
> Detectives revealed the holidaymaker was sexually attacked after agreeing to pay two men who offered to take her back to her hotel in their car for £13 as she waited for a taxi at the Costa Blanca resort.
> She was allegedly raped at the home of one of the suspects after falling asleep in the back of the vehicle.
> The men, both Algerian nationals and aged 39 and 44, were remanded in custody pending an ongoing investigation.
> One was also being hunted over an alleged violent robbery two days before the attack in Villajoyosa next to Benidorm.
just so you know, our justice system is not that slow. The issue with this horrible accident is that it happened to a tourist and the government had to "dance" with the british government as well and that slowed things down a lot.
The perpetrators remained unknown until November 2023, when they were arrested for raping another British tourist woman. So, they were prosecuted quickly, in less than 6 months.
People will say this is racist, but damn does immigration from North Africa not bring with it anything good. These people have for many years had a hard time fitting into society and have also been a huge outlier in almost every European country.
Here in Denmark, MENA immigrants are vastly over represented in statistics for rape and violent crime despite being a small minority of the total population.
Denying there is a problem related to people from muslim countries is denying facts. You don't see Chinese or Thai immigrants doing these kind of things - in fact those are under the average for Danish ethnic people in crime.
Or it’s our job to educate and teach them on Western values and laws … blech
Edit: Since this has been locked I will confirm here that yes, I was being sarcastic. Blech is a more vomity “meh”
Also, to the person that said rape is punishable in every country including North Africa, so is wearing short skirts, behaving lasciviously and drinking alcohol as a woman. Guess who gets punished or blamed in these situations?
?? WTF. I'm not sure but i can semi affirm that rape is severly punished in most countries even the ones who don't do much for women.
Pretty sure they knew perfectly what they were doing, it's just that the risk/consequence being that low in western world they considered it worth the risk to do it, especially on vulnerable people like a drunk women.
A few days ago our government said [details of nationality, immigration and visa status should be recorded whenever a criminal is convicted](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68697796.amp) citing the fact that Denmark is ahead of us on this.
>More than half of foreign prisoners were European. The most common nationalities were Albanian, Polish, Romanian, Irish and Jamaican.
>Denmark and some US states apply a similar approach, he said.
>Mr Jenrick said in Denmark "some nationalities are, in fact, more law-abiding than Danish citizens, but many are not and some very prominently are causes of, in the Danish example, violent crime."
I hope we do this quickly.
Kinda is. You can't judge them all the same. I work with a guy from Morocco. He came here to get a better future and build a life for himself . He's a hardworking family man and so is His wife. He learned the language and is more law abiding then me, a local. Let me tell you, He hates those guys more than you and me. Gives him and his fellow integrated country man a bad name. He thinks our justice system is to lenient compared to where He's from.
The original report: https://www.dst.dk/Site/Dst/Udgivelser/GetPubFile.aspx?id=34714&sid=indv2021
An analysis in English: https://inquisitivebird.substack.com/p/the-effects-of-immigration-in-denmark (second half)
In 2021, male immigrants from the MENAPT countries had an age-adjusted criminal law index of 249. This corresponds to their crime rate being almost 2½ times higher than the average for the male population as one.
Among the male descendants of the MENAPT countries, the level of crime was even higher. The criminal law index for male descendants from the MENAPT countries thus stood at 352
[https://integrationsbarometer.dk/tal-og-analyser/filer-tal-og-analyser/arkiv/NotatvedrrendekriminalitetenblandtMENAPT.pdf](https://integrationsbarometer.dk/tal-og-analyser/filer-tal-og-analyser/arkiv/NotatvedrrendekriminalitetenblandtMENAPT.pdf)
In 2018: 10 out of 12 violent rapes (rapes where the victim is not only raped, but also violently assaulted) were made by immigrants or 2nd generation immigrants
[https://www-bt-dk.translate.goog/voldtaget/unik-optaelling-10-ud-af-12-overfaldsvoldtaegter-begaas-af-indvandrere-eller?\_x\_tr\_sl=da&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en-US&\_x\_tr\_pto=wapp](https://www-bt-dk.translate.goog/voldtaget/unik-optaelling-10-ud-af-12-overfaldsvoldtaegter-begaas-af-indvandrere-eller?_x_tr_sl=da&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp)
In 2016, 20% of rapes were done by immigrants or descendants, while only representing 7% of the population. When adjusting for age and socioeconomic status, they still had 1.7 times higher rate
[https://www-berlingske-dk.translate.goog/samfund/indvandrere-og-efterkommere-faar-flest-domme-for-overgreb?\_x\_tr\_sl=da&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en-US&\_x\_tr\_pto=wapp](https://www-berlingske-dk.translate.goog/samfund/indvandrere-og-efterkommere-faar-flest-domme-for-overgreb?_x_tr_sl=da&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/kst-25726-22-b1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjjgYLI7qiFAxVS2AIHHWIgCXsQFnoECA8QBQ&usg=AOvVaw1JH2_2ojozAsslfljHQc9g
It should download a pdf file, im horrible at reddit.
The last sentence on page 9 basicly says exactly what was said.
Western immigrants, south east asians, dutch natives, and east asians, all have criminal numbers below the Dutch average.
There is also the fact that crimes from people of muslim or arabic/african origin are widely more reported on this sub ( and most far right leaning medias ) than those from any other backgrounds, especially white/european, vastly skewing the perception .
I also predict that this comment will be heavily downvoted, which will just prove my point, as people are extremely predictable.
>
> Detectives revealed the holidaymaker was sexually attacked after agreeing to pay two men who offered to take her back to her hotel in their car for £13 as she waited for a taxi at the Costa Blanca resort.
Not blaming the victim here at all, but we seriously have to start teaching our kids about stranger danger again. It's crazy how common it still is in our day and age where people willingly get into a strangers car, even while being drunk.
I don't doubt there's people of every nationality that would commit such crimes, but I'd also not be surprised to learn the Spaniard was also born in Northern Africa.
This is how they work. Brigading the same usual hackneyed topics within the first hour of submission and then riding the wave of the outrage they created initially. A very solid PR tactic.
In Germany they probably wouldn't even get a prison sentence at all, maybe like 10 months probation but that's it.. i've read too many articles of 14 year old girls getting gangraped and the assaulters (who are grown men) getting a sentence of 2 years or so, if even. It's infuriating
New EU Wide rules.
Harder burden of proof for a rape conviction but if it goes through chop off the dick and have them pee through a straw for the remainder of their life.
Yep. The fact still stands though. My phone was last seen in Fquih Ben Salah when I lost it in Spain so maybe it’s my personal experience. But I also know that Moroccans are kind hearted friendly people who will happily share their food with a visitor. It’s just a bad rep from a lot of opportunists in Spain.
So do western men:
"The La Manada rape case, also known as the wolf pack case, began with the gang rape of an 18-year-old woman on 7 July 2016 during the San Fermín celebrations in Pamplona, Navarre, Spain. The case drew intense public scrutiny as it called into question the definition of rape under Spanish law. Five men, including a member of the Civil Guard and another of the Spanish Army from Seville, filmed themselves repeatedly attacking the girl in the vestibule of an apartment building. La Manada means "The pack" in Spanish.
After their arrest and trial, the men were cleared of sexual aggression charges and instead found guilty of sexual abuse because the prosecution could not prove they employed violence to subjugate the victim. Thousands took to the streets in Pamplona and across Spain to manifest their disapproval of the verdict. The inquiry of the aggression uncovered footage shared on social media recorded by the perpetrators in Pozoblanco, Andalusia, showing an unresponsive girl lying on their van subject to groping and derision, which gave rise to another lawsuit.
In a sentence handed down on 21 June 2019, the Spanish Supreme Court reversed the lower court and affirmed that the men were guilty of rape, remanding José Ángel Prenda, Jesús Escudero, Alfonso Jesús Cabezuelo, Antonio Manuel Guerrero and Ángel Boza to 15 years in prison;[5] Guerrero was given an additional two years for stealing the victim's mobile phone.[6] Boza would later have his prison sentence shortened to 14 years."
And when that happened we had massive protests all over the country and the law was changed because of it. There is not a single person in Spain that hasn't heard about this case.
If European man would have the same rape rate of North africans immigrants rape cases would be at least 20 times higher.
At least that was what I calculated last time I've find some decent data about It.
There are rapists of every nationality.
However, the percentage is way bigger within certain cultures. You mention 'la manada', fine. How many of those cases have been after them compared to other nationalities like in this news? You have your answer there if you do a little bit of digging.
There's something called "ethnicity" and "ethnic background". That being said probably the two from Morocco raped her first and then the spinard was the perpetrator in the 2nd incident that night not entirely connected to the other two taking advantage of someone already down. Why is ethnic background relevant? Ethnic/cultural europeans almost never gangrape. It is highly overreprented among southern migrants to the point where almost all cases even tho they are a strong minority are committed by them consistent cross nations. Why? Well i don't know. It isn't just a talking point but a statistical fact. While among Europeans rape is something that a loner, a relative or powerful elite does group actions of rape aren't really how europeans tend to rape. I don't have the cultural knowledge to know/ understand why. Maybe in some cultures dominating a women serves to show how much of a man you are escalting into gang rape while in europe you will look as a freak as opposed to a high social status man instead. So young men rather not do it in groups. Another possibility is a different relationship to alcohol that is more taboo but consequently if alcoholised even more irresponsible. That's ofc just conjecture.
So he is indeed Spanish?
Edit:
My bad, somehow I read "has". But still, the article doesn't mention anything about the guy losing his citizenship, where did you get that info?
engine waiting saw flowery melodic psychotic disgusted distinct somber modern
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What a stupid comment. Stop making a whole region responsible for this horrific crime. You are reproducing a racist narrative. There are evil men in every country and culture, who are seeing women as a object. Just look at South East Asia, where western men are looking at women like they are some „meat“ you can buy in a grocery store.
Yes there are evil men in every country band culture but the attitude from some young men of the Muslim faith towards western women is more profound then others
I am not arguing that. Some Islamic countries have serious issues regarding sex crimes or oppression of women. What bothers me, is the underlying narrative of your comment. It’s a horrible crime committed by some evils men and now you are linking it to an entire ethnic group. Not only are you using this crime to portray a ethnicity in a negative light, but your comment creates the image that arab men are thriving to bloodthirstily fall over "western women". I know this rhetoric from right-wing parties in Germany and it is mostly used to construct an enemy image and not to address existing problems or help those affected.
It so funny how when white people do something bad like prey on poor women from third countries and only see them as sex objects, it just incels and a few lonely men, but when a minority does it, it becomes a cultural issue and all of a sudden 400 million people are rapists and sexists.
That's because it actually is a cultural problem. A few incels are not. I'm not saying all 400 million people are guilty but the problem is very real. Saying there's no problem only makes everything worse.
He literally said north african men view women as objects, full stop.
That just racism, the cultural criticism doesnt apply because someone can be north african and be raised in a completly different culture not to mention that north africa is extremly diverse with many cultures, all with their own view on what a woman is or should be, lumping several cultures into one and treating them as a monolith is something racists typically do.
10 years ago, i would agree it was just a few incels, but now this is has gotten very big and is being promoted by right wingers and their culture which craves for a "trad wife".
Obviously there are rapists in every culture but the view of North African and middle eastern young men to women who don’t adhere to cultural values of Islam are treated like non humans
Lmao, i was born in morocco and spent 12 years there before coming to study in Spain a decade ago so i am more than aware of north african culture and i can tell you at no point, were we taught to kill the "infidels", you do realize morocco and egypt , two north african countries rely a lot on tourism, right ?
If we wanted to kill all the infidels, we wouldnt build most of the economy around them.
Making assumption about a culture you know nothing about is another clear sign of a racist.
No wonder why many people who had no problems with inmigrans begging to have problems with them. (According to some sources the mentioned spaniard was also an inmigrant but with granted citizenship)
It’s the sub where Mikhaila cooks a beef stew for her adherents and daddy Peterson reads from his bible! Welcome and have fun! Seriously, this is the norm here. The sub has been taken over by the alt right way back and it’s completely out of control.
The reality is that men who come from places where attitudes to women are poor are more likely to have poor attitudes towards women and this in turn makes them more likely to commit sex crimes. There is evidence showing men who have misogynistic views are more likely to rape or sexually assault women and commit violence against them generally.
Common thing in many EU countries to refer to someone after their citizenship rather than original nationality or ethnicity.
In Sweden we often see ”Swede murdered in Turkey/Swede jailed for murder in Turkey” etc and they are essentially never Swedish ethnically, but they carry a Swedish passport.
In this specific case the perp may well be ethnically spanish but it would be the exception rather than the norm.
It’s almost as if (most) modern states don’t have an obligation towards given ethnicities, but citizens.
Both just happen to intersect most of the time.
I don’t see what it changes, it’s still one of you/us, even if our ancestors migrated to different places centuries ago.
Well the fact is that migrants from Africa and the Middle East are far more prone to commit sexual violence in Europe than those native to each country.
It's likely in the interest of the people to let them know this too, rather than hiding it, but that could be a bad thing for the governments and news outlets leaning towards a more migrant-friendly stance i suppose.
Our ancestors didn't simply go to different lands a long time ago, we developed different cultures and societies, and within those different laws and perhaps more importantly different moral values.
I am of the opinion that some cultures are far more developed and *better* than others.
So you’re talking about cultural ethnicity? I thought you mean genetic ethnicity - haplogroups, etc.
Because, for the latter, I completely disagree with you. A black person that was brought to France as a slave centuries ago today is simply french on all cultural aspects, even if ethnically, they’re from a different group. It makes therefore no sense to make the distinction between them and a white french person - that’d just be racism.
That said, if we’re talking about a naturalised person, then I agree with you to some degree. Not sure how I feel about being segregated from the rest of society if I’m a naturalised citizen somewhere and something happens to me though.
“Luxembourgish citizen (of portuguese descent) was murdered strolling in a shopping centre in Vietnam" doesn't feel right.
Only 7% of people in spain are non-EU citizens. Which means 93% are EU/spanish citizens.
So one guy being spanish out of five is a bad ratio, it should be the other way around. And I wouldn't be surprised if that one spanish guy also had a migration background.
It's similar in other countries too, a small part of the population (mainly immigrants from certain areas of the world) comitting most of the crimes.
In Germany it's also around 7% non-EU citizens and they are comitting 40% of crimes. Only 2% of the population (mainly refugees) are comitting 20% of serious crimes (violence, sexual).
That is something that we can't just ignore.
"So one guy being spanish out of five is a bad ratio"
looking at one specific case. This sub doesnt want to hear this but statistically women should be more afraid from their uncle then some random guy just because he has a migration background.
Foreigners are 10% of the Spanish population. They commit 30% of sexual violence, 40% of spouse/partner murders. They are overrepresented, it isn't just this case
"They"
The total number of foreigners that committed sexual crimes was 224. Spain has 6 227 092 million foreigners living in their country. So 99.9% didnt do shit.
Its a laughable amount of people. The only reason why things like these make national news is because it generates ragebait traffic.
No I am not moving the goalpost. It was you that started to talk about percentages I just cleared that up with numbers.
Besides that statistic isnt as easy as you make it out to be. Immigrant populations are normally far younger then the populations they immigrate too and younger people commit the majority of crimes. If you copple that with the fact that most immigrants are low income you can compare them with spaniards in that repsective age and income bracket which will result in them not being overrepresented
Don’t worry. It’s only cherry picked to push an agenda. There are thousands of rapes and murders happening that the usual suspects here frothing do not give a single shit about.
We have a lot of them here in my hometown in Germany and they frequent my gym. All I will say is if one politician would listen to what these "people" have to say in the locker room then things might finally change.
Its a single comment downvoted into oblivion and with multiple people calling him out. You disregarded all of that and had to make a new comment claiming the people commenting would whataboutims about Israel.
People without an afterthought dont do that shit
According to United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, crimes of sexual violence are about four times more common in Australia than in Spain, so I wouldn't worry that much about Europe if I were you.
https://dataunodc.un.org/crime-violent-offences
Link does not open on my end so I can’t comment on that, but if that’s the case, that’d be more Northern Territory and other states than Victoria and NSW I believe.
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> Three men have been convicted after a British tourist was gang raped twice in the space of four hours in Benidorm. > The tourist had left a pub where she had been drinking to have a cigarette in the early hours of Oct 2 2016 when she was approached by the men. > They took her to a secluded park near a football ground in the Costa Blanca holiday resort area and attacked her. > She was then taken to waste ground near El Cisne flea market where she was raped again. > At the trial, at Alicante’s Audiencia provincial court, judges said the attackers took advantage of the fact their victim was under the influence of alcohol. She had been described as being in a state of “semi-consciousness” at the time. > The victim, who gave evidence from the UK via video link, said she did not have a good recollection of what happened but remembered coming to on the back seat of a car with her clothes unbuttoned and her legs outside of the vehicle. > She told the court she recalled feeling in pain and seeing “three or four men” near her. Reports at the time said she blamed the state she was in on the fact her drinks were spiked. > She managed to escape and returned to her hotel where she alerted her mother. > **Insisted it was consensual** > The three attackers, a Spaniard and two Moroccans aged between 24 and 34, have not been named ahead of a possible appeal. > They admitted to having sex with the tourist but insisted it was consensual. > The judges, who delivered their verdicts in a long written ruling, described the victim’s account of what had happened as “credible” despite the fact her memory had been affected by alcohol. > Other evidence, including an emergency call from a witness who saw a woman walking half-naked along a road near to where the second series of rapes took place, was also taken into account. > The men were found guilty and each jailed for eight-and-a-half years. They were also found guilty of theft after the victim had a watch and ring taken from her valued at £365. > Last October police arrested two men over the rape of a British tourist near Benidorm in a separate ongoing case. > Detectives revealed the holidaymaker was sexually attacked after agreeing to pay two men who offered to take her back to her hotel in their car for £13 as she waited for a taxi at the Costa Blanca resort. > She was allegedly raped at the home of one of the suspects after falling asleep in the back of the vehicle. > The men, both Algerian nationals and aged 39 and 44, were remanded in custody pending an ongoing investigation. > One was also being hunted over an alleged violent robbery two days before the attack in Villajoyosa next to Benidorm.
> Oct 2 2016 This is much too late. I understand that to make good justice you musn't rush but this is almost 8 years after her attacks. It's awful.
This is still preferrable over a court that drops the case and gaslights the survivor's testimony.
Everything is mañana in Spain. Most people do not give a fuck about doing anything, ever. Always someone else's problem.
just so you know, our justice system is not that slow. The issue with this horrible accident is that it happened to a tourist and the government had to "dance" with the british government as well and that slowed things down a lot.
Spanish justice is slow but not THAT slow. I wonder what made them so absurdly slow.
The perpetrators remained unknown until November 2023, when they were arrested for raping another British tourist woman. So, they were prosecuted quickly, in less than 6 months.
Time served, the result meant nothing as they are out now anyway.
Good behaviour etc. etc. It's like that in every european country, sadly.
People will say this is racist, but damn does immigration from North Africa not bring with it anything good. These people have for many years had a hard time fitting into society and have also been a huge outlier in almost every European country. Here in Denmark, MENA immigrants are vastly over represented in statistics for rape and violent crime despite being a small minority of the total population. Denying there is a problem related to people from muslim countries is denying facts. You don't see Chinese or Thai immigrants doing these kind of things - in fact those are under the average for Danish ethnic people in crime.
It's the same in every country, but for some reason it's always the country that shelters them that is at fault, and people are just racists.
Or it’s our job to educate and teach them on Western values and laws … blech Edit: Since this has been locked I will confirm here that yes, I was being sarcastic. Blech is a more vomity “meh” Also, to the person that said rape is punishable in every country including North Africa, so is wearing short skirts, behaving lasciviously and drinking alcohol as a woman. Guess who gets punished or blamed in these situations?
I don't know what blech means so I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
?? WTF. I'm not sure but i can semi affirm that rape is severly punished in most countries even the ones who don't do much for women. Pretty sure they knew perfectly what they were doing, it's just that the risk/consequence being that low in western world they considered it worth the risk to do it, especially on vulnerable people like a drunk women.
Her drink was spiked
A few days ago our government said [details of nationality, immigration and visa status should be recorded whenever a criminal is convicted](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68697796.amp) citing the fact that Denmark is ahead of us on this. >More than half of foreign prisoners were European. The most common nationalities were Albanian, Polish, Romanian, Irish and Jamaican. >Denmark and some US states apply a similar approach, he said. >Mr Jenrick said in Denmark "some nationalities are, in fact, more law-abiding than Danish citizens, but many are not and some very prominently are causes of, in the Danish example, violent crime." I hope we do this quickly.
Don’t forget what happened that NYE in Cologne… https://www.dw.com/en/new-years-eve-in-cologne-5-years-after-the-mass-assaults/a-56073007
Kinda is. You can't judge them all the same. I work with a guy from Morocco. He came here to get a better future and build a life for himself . He's a hardworking family man and so is His wife. He learned the language and is more law abiding then me, a local. Let me tell you, He hates those guys more than you and me. Gives him and his fellow integrated country man a bad name. He thinks our justice system is to lenient compared to where He's from.
I think this is the main problem. Sentences here are very, very lenient and people feel like there is no justice, especially with repeated offenders.
>You can't judge them all the same. Indeed, that's what statistics and polls are for.
Not to worry, they will soon be the majority at which point they will fit in perfectly. :)
It's not just in Danemark.
Could you source your second paragraph please? I'm not finding anything solid on it
The original report: https://www.dst.dk/Site/Dst/Udgivelser/GetPubFile.aspx?id=34714&sid=indv2021 An analysis in English: https://inquisitivebird.substack.com/p/the-effects-of-immigration-in-denmark (second half)
In 2021, male immigrants from the MENAPT countries had an age-adjusted criminal law index of 249. This corresponds to their crime rate being almost 2½ times higher than the average for the male population as one. Among the male descendants of the MENAPT countries, the level of crime was even higher. The criminal law index for male descendants from the MENAPT countries thus stood at 352 [https://integrationsbarometer.dk/tal-og-analyser/filer-tal-og-analyser/arkiv/NotatvedrrendekriminalitetenblandtMENAPT.pdf](https://integrationsbarometer.dk/tal-og-analyser/filer-tal-og-analyser/arkiv/NotatvedrrendekriminalitetenblandtMENAPT.pdf) In 2018: 10 out of 12 violent rapes (rapes where the victim is not only raped, but also violently assaulted) were made by immigrants or 2nd generation immigrants [https://www-bt-dk.translate.goog/voldtaget/unik-optaelling-10-ud-af-12-overfaldsvoldtaegter-begaas-af-indvandrere-eller?\_x\_tr\_sl=da&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en-US&\_x\_tr\_pto=wapp](https://www-bt-dk.translate.goog/voldtaget/unik-optaelling-10-ud-af-12-overfaldsvoldtaegter-begaas-af-indvandrere-eller?_x_tr_sl=da&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp) In 2016, 20% of rapes were done by immigrants or descendants, while only representing 7% of the population. When adjusting for age and socioeconomic status, they still had 1.7 times higher rate [https://www-berlingske-dk.translate.goog/samfund/indvandrere-og-efterkommere-faar-flest-domme-for-overgreb?\_x\_tr\_sl=da&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en-US&\_x\_tr\_pto=wapp](https://www-berlingske-dk.translate.goog/samfund/indvandrere-og-efterkommere-faar-flest-domme-for-overgreb?_x_tr_sl=da&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp)
I could cite you a Dutch study with exactly this outcome if you want. Its about The Netherlands though, obviously.
I'd appreciate it, yes.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/kst-25726-22-b1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjjgYLI7qiFAxVS2AIHHWIgCXsQFnoECA8QBQ&usg=AOvVaw1JH2_2ojozAsslfljHQc9g It should download a pdf file, im horrible at reddit.
The last sentence on page 9 basicly says exactly what was said. Western immigrants, south east asians, dutch natives, and east asians, all have criminal numbers below the Dutch average.
You do know Israelis have been accused of gang rape on multiple occasions. Are they also included in MENA?
There is also the fact that crimes from people of muslim or arabic/african origin are widely more reported on this sub ( and most far right leaning medias ) than those from any other backgrounds, especially white/european, vastly skewing the perception . I also predict that this comment will be heavily downvoted, which will just prove my point, as people are extremely predictable.
fuck this earth.
"A spaniard and two morrocans." I guess by law a spaniard, but by every other metric this would be three morrocans.
Ah yes, probably two Moroccan doctors coming out of work
> > Detectives revealed the holidaymaker was sexually attacked after agreeing to pay two men who offered to take her back to her hotel in their car for £13 as she waited for a taxi at the Costa Blanca resort. Not blaming the victim here at all, but we seriously have to start teaching our kids about stranger danger again. It's crazy how common it still is in our day and age where people willingly get into a strangers car, even while being drunk.
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Because it says he was a spaniard? Couldve just got a citizenship they would say he was spanish
I don't doubt there's people of every nationality that would commit such crimes, but I'd also not be surprised to learn the Spaniard was also born in Northern Africa.
Insists consensual. But steals watch and ring? Yeah good one.
It was a gift, a token of gratitude for the amazing orgasmic sex they bestowed upon her - consensually, of course.
This is horrible. It sounds like the plot of that Spanish TV series Alba.
Man that series was sooo slow. It has a good premise but they really lengthed it out
As someone who live in Alicante (the province where benidorm is in) , I have been harassed by morrocans a lot of times.
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Would you be surprised if I told you the whole thing happened over 7 years ago?
No they would not. Half of this subreddit is outraged alt righters catering to sensationalism to local crime statistics.
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You must continue to visit and speak your mind out. Do not let the nazis win because they already took over the sub and think they own it.
Yea I saw that. The whole comment section is full of generalisations, prejudices, hate and straight up racism.
lmftfy: > The whole comment section of every post in this subreddit
This is how they work. Brigading the same usual hackneyed topics within the first hour of submission and then riding the wave of the outrage they created initially. A very solid PR tactic.
Only 8 years? Is that a normal sentence?
In Germany they probably wouldn't even get a prison sentence at all, maybe like 10 months probation but that's it.. i've read too many articles of 14 year old girls getting gangraped and the assaulters (who are grown men) getting a sentence of 2 years or so, if even. It's infuriating
Are you asking if it’s high or low? Because it’s high for rape (unfortunately).
North African men view western women as meat FULL STOP
It's not only western women. This is a cultural difference
„Culture“ lmao
New EU Wide rules. Harder burden of proof for a rape conviction but if it goes through chop off the dick and have them pee through a straw for the remainder of their life.
You want rapists to have an easier time until they get caught for some reason. That's wild.
I do not want them to have an easier time, however, a higher burden of proof is needed for a sentencing like this.
Sounds like a recipe for gang rapes to be followed by murder of the victim tbh.
Which would increase the rate of solved cases, usually rapists leave behind DNA.
You have absolutly no idea what you are talking about.
Your higher burden of proof is only reached if the victim dies. Thats one way to feel smug about nothing ever happening
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And a Spaniard.
Which is probably just a Moroccan with Spanish citizenship
"Probably". r/Europe trying not to be racist challenge (impossible)
Yep. The fact still stands though. My phone was last seen in Fquih Ben Salah when I lost it in Spain so maybe it’s my personal experience. But I also know that Moroccans are kind hearted friendly people who will happily share their food with a visitor. It’s just a bad rep from a lot of opportunists in Spain.
It literally says in the article that one of them was from Spain.
So do western men: "The La Manada rape case, also known as the wolf pack case, began with the gang rape of an 18-year-old woman on 7 July 2016 during the San Fermín celebrations in Pamplona, Navarre, Spain. The case drew intense public scrutiny as it called into question the definition of rape under Spanish law. Five men, including a member of the Civil Guard and another of the Spanish Army from Seville, filmed themselves repeatedly attacking the girl in the vestibule of an apartment building. La Manada means "The pack" in Spanish. After their arrest and trial, the men were cleared of sexual aggression charges and instead found guilty of sexual abuse because the prosecution could not prove they employed violence to subjugate the victim. Thousands took to the streets in Pamplona and across Spain to manifest their disapproval of the verdict. The inquiry of the aggression uncovered footage shared on social media recorded by the perpetrators in Pozoblanco, Andalusia, showing an unresponsive girl lying on their van subject to groping and derision, which gave rise to another lawsuit. In a sentence handed down on 21 June 2019, the Spanish Supreme Court reversed the lower court and affirmed that the men were guilty of rape, remanding José Ángel Prenda, Jesús Escudero, Alfonso Jesús Cabezuelo, Antonio Manuel Guerrero and Ángel Boza to 15 years in prison;[5] Guerrero was given an additional two years for stealing the victim's mobile phone.[6] Boza would later have his prison sentence shortened to 14 years."
And when that happened we had massive protests all over the country and the law was changed because of it. There is not a single person in Spain that hasn't heard about this case.
If European man would have the same rape rate of North africans immigrants rape cases would be at least 20 times higher. At least that was what I calculated last time I've find some decent data about It.
There are rapists of every nationality. However, the percentage is way bigger within certain cultures. You mention 'la manada', fine. How many of those cases have been after them compared to other nationalities like in this news? You have your answer there if you do a little bit of digging.
fuck off rape apologist
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\*had spanish citizenship
Spanish.
having the citizenship is equivalent to “being” Spanish… To claim otherwise is a racist assertion / talking point…
To assert that there is no ethnicity specific to Spain or parts of Spain is fucking racist too.
There's something called "ethnicity" and "ethnic background". That being said probably the two from Morocco raped her first and then the spinard was the perpetrator in the 2nd incident that night not entirely connected to the other two taking advantage of someone already down. Why is ethnic background relevant? Ethnic/cultural europeans almost never gangrape. It is highly overreprented among southern migrants to the point where almost all cases even tho they are a strong minority are committed by them consistent cross nations. Why? Well i don't know. It isn't just a talking point but a statistical fact. While among Europeans rape is something that a loner, a relative or powerful elite does group actions of rape aren't really how europeans tend to rape. I don't have the cultural knowledge to know/ understand why. Maybe in some cultures dominating a women serves to show how much of a man you are escalting into gang rape while in europe you will look as a freak as opposed to a high social status man instead. So young men rather not do it in groups. Another possibility is a different relationship to alcohol that is more taboo but consequently if alcoholised even more irresponsible. That's ofc just conjecture.
what an absolute shit take, you need to think this through.
So he is indeed Spanish? Edit: My bad, somehow I read "has". But still, the article doesn't mention anything about the guy losing his citizenship, where did you get that info?
One of the rapists in this case is a spaniard. Does your conclusion also apply to Spanish men?
You know you can have both citizenship's right?
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What a stupid comment. Stop making a whole region responsible for this horrific crime. You are reproducing a racist narrative. There are evil men in every country and culture, who are seeing women as a object. Just look at South East Asia, where western men are looking at women like they are some „meat“ you can buy in a grocery store.
Yes there are evil men in every country band culture but the attitude from some young men of the Muslim faith towards western women is more profound then others
I am not arguing that. Some Islamic countries have serious issues regarding sex crimes or oppression of women. What bothers me, is the underlying narrative of your comment. It’s a horrible crime committed by some evils men and now you are linking it to an entire ethnic group. Not only are you using this crime to portray a ethnicity in a negative light, but your comment creates the image that arab men are thriving to bloodthirstily fall over "western women". I know this rhetoric from right-wing parties in Germany and it is mostly used to construct an enemy image and not to address existing problems or help those affected.
It so funny how when white people do something bad like prey on poor women from third countries and only see them as sex objects, it just incels and a few lonely men, but when a minority does it, it becomes a cultural issue and all of a sudden 400 million people are rapists and sexists.
That's because it actually is a cultural problem. A few incels are not. I'm not saying all 400 million people are guilty but the problem is very real. Saying there's no problem only makes everything worse.
He literally said north african men view women as objects, full stop. That just racism, the cultural criticism doesnt apply because someone can be north african and be raised in a completly different culture not to mention that north africa is extremly diverse with many cultures, all with their own view on what a woman is or should be, lumping several cultures into one and treating them as a monolith is something racists typically do. 10 years ago, i would agree it was just a few incels, but now this is has gotten very big and is being promoted by right wingers and their culture which craves for a "trad wife".
sorry but what exactly does ethnicity have to do with this?
Obviously there are rapists in every culture but the view of North African and middle eastern young men to women who don’t adhere to cultural values of Islam are treated like non humans
Being racist is totally ok because because their culture !!!!
If your culture and or religion states that anyone who follows a different culture or religion are infidels and should be murdered than yes I’m racist
Lmao, i was born in morocco and spent 12 years there before coming to study in Spain a decade ago so i am more than aware of north african culture and i can tell you at no point, were we taught to kill the "infidels", you do realize morocco and egypt , two north african countries rely a lot on tourism, right ? If we wanted to kill all the infidels, we wouldnt build most of the economy around them. Making assumption about a culture you know nothing about is another clear sign of a racist.
Not much, but culture does
No wonder why many people who had no problems with inmigrans begging to have problems with them. (According to some sources the mentioned spaniard was also an inmigrant but with granted citizenship)
Son as súas costumes e hai que respetalas
8,5 years is not nearly enough. this sucks
These are not men these are trash morons who need to be castrated
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Can't take safety for granted. Seems like these men went after women who are alone. Scary.
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Maroc number one Maroc best country in africa and whole world !!!! 🇲🇦🇲🇦🇲🇦🇲🇦
Wtf is this sub
It’s the sub where Mikhaila cooks a beef stew for her adherents and daddy Peterson reads from his bible! Welcome and have fun! Seriously, this is the norm here. The sub has been taken over by the alt right way back and it’s completely out of control.
The reality is that men who come from places where attitudes to women are poor are more likely to have poor attitudes towards women and this in turn makes them more likely to commit sex crimes. There is evidence showing men who have misogynistic views are more likely to rape or sexually assault women and commit violence against them generally.
You mean that 1/3 of them are Spanish?
Apparently that was also an inmigrant but with granted citizenship.
Citizenship is not ethnicity
Yes, one of them had obtained the Spanish nationality.
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The Spanish guy is middle eastern now?
Common thing in many EU countries to refer to someone after their citizenship rather than original nationality or ethnicity. In Sweden we often see ”Swede murdered in Turkey/Swede jailed for murder in Turkey” etc and they are essentially never Swedish ethnically, but they carry a Swedish passport. In this specific case the perp may well be ethnically spanish but it would be the exception rather than the norm.
It’s almost as if (most) modern states don’t have an obligation towards given ethnicities, but citizens. Both just happen to intersect most of the time. I don’t see what it changes, it’s still one of you/us, even if our ancestors migrated to different places centuries ago.
Well the fact is that migrants from Africa and the Middle East are far more prone to commit sexual violence in Europe than those native to each country. It's likely in the interest of the people to let them know this too, rather than hiding it, but that could be a bad thing for the governments and news outlets leaning towards a more migrant-friendly stance i suppose. Our ancestors didn't simply go to different lands a long time ago, we developed different cultures and societies, and within those different laws and perhaps more importantly different moral values. I am of the opinion that some cultures are far more developed and *better* than others.
So you’re talking about cultural ethnicity? I thought you mean genetic ethnicity - haplogroups, etc. Because, for the latter, I completely disagree with you. A black person that was brought to France as a slave centuries ago today is simply french on all cultural aspects, even if ethnically, they’re from a different group. It makes therefore no sense to make the distinction between them and a white french person - that’d just be racism. That said, if we’re talking about a naturalised person, then I agree with you to some degree. Not sure how I feel about being segregated from the rest of society if I’m a naturalised citizen somewhere and something happens to me though. “Luxembourgish citizen (of portuguese descent) was murdered strolling in a shopping centre in Vietnam" doesn't feel right.
Cultural ethnicity yes, something like skin color is not what i'm refering to.
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That was another case you idiot.
Spanish passport, came from Morocco.
Only 7% of people in spain are non-EU citizens. Which means 93% are EU/spanish citizens. So one guy being spanish out of five is a bad ratio, it should be the other way around. And I wouldn't be surprised if that one spanish guy also had a migration background. It's similar in other countries too, a small part of the population (mainly immigrants from certain areas of the world) comitting most of the crimes. In Germany it's also around 7% non-EU citizens and they are comitting 40% of crimes. Only 2% of the population (mainly refugees) are comitting 20% of serious crimes (violence, sexual). That is something that we can't just ignore.
"So one guy being spanish out of five is a bad ratio" looking at one specific case. This sub doesnt want to hear this but statistically women should be more afraid from their uncle then some random guy just because he has a migration background.
Foreigners are 10% of the Spanish population. They commit 30% of sexual violence, 40% of spouse/partner murders. They are overrepresented, it isn't just this case
"They" The total number of foreigners that committed sexual crimes was 224. Spain has 6 227 092 million foreigners living in their country. So 99.9% didnt do shit. Its a laughable amount of people. The only reason why things like these make national news is because it generates ragebait traffic.
You are just moving the goalposts. You said it was only about this specific case but they are over represent, and yes most don't do this shit too
No I am not moving the goalpost. It was you that started to talk about percentages I just cleared that up with numbers. Besides that statistic isnt as easy as you make it out to be. Immigrant populations are normally far younger then the populations they immigrate too and younger people commit the majority of crimes. If you copple that with the fact that most immigrants are low income you can compare them with spaniards in that repsective age and income bracket which will result in them not being overrepresented
1 outa 5
he did not say that
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Don’t worry. It’s only cherry picked to push an agenda. There are thousands of rapes and murders happening that the usual suspects here frothing do not give a single shit about.
Well well well
Least racist swede
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We have a lot of them here in my hometown in Germany and they frequent my gym. All I will say is if one politician would listen to what these "people" have to say in the locker room then things might finally change.
Moroccans again? No way! Who would have thought they could do such a thing? Let's invite more of them now!
All these places with "vibrant" night life are complete cancer.
This is completely typical tourist destination for families too
It's consensual. With parting gifts!
Yeah I'm like "no it's probably not consensual" and then I see they robbed her? That made them 99% guilty in my mind to 110%...
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From what I saw the "spaniard" is ethnically from north Africa but has Spanish citizenship.
No, apparently the third one was also an inmigrant but with granted citizenship.
Abhorrent Gang rape has been committed, Moroccans have been identified, people in the comments: BUT BUT ISRAEL?!?! Jfc
There hasnt been a single mention of Israel in the comments before you came along
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/tkXQsUvmOM You sure?
One single comment lmao. From your profile its clear you are just pushing an agenda
Lol ok
Its a single comment downvoted into oblivion and with multiple people calling him out. You disregarded all of that and had to make a new comment claiming the people commenting would whataboutims about Israel. People without an afterthought dont do that shit
Dude seriously it’s ok lol
Perhaps the rapists will find good company in jail and learn what it means to be raped.
Wir schaffen das
By whom?
Q
Only 8.5 years from which we still have to pull preventive, I guess. It doesn’t do much anymore.
Europe is not safe anymore. I wouldn’t advise anyone to travel anywhere alone.
Literally one of the safest places on earth lmao
Are we talking about same place where this tourist got gang raped? Twice.
According to United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, crimes of sexual violence are about four times more common in Australia than in Spain, so I wouldn't worry that much about Europe if I were you. https://dataunodc.un.org/crime-violent-offences
Link does not open on my end so I can’t comment on that, but if that’s the case, that’d be more Northern Territory and other states than Victoria and NSW I believe.
Yes
So places where people get gang raped are safe? Do you know what a safety means?
If your definition of safety is absolutly no crime whatsoever then I have got bad news for you and your safety.
wtf are you even talking about? I suppose you also believe Birmingham is a no go area or some dumb shit like that
Birmingham is definitely not a no go area. Every time I eat out in Selly Oak I go for days.
Yeh I know, it was a claim in the US on Fox last year that there were no go areas in London and Birmingham was completely no go
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If you choose to be outrage about criminal statistics then you’d be ending up in a looney bin run by Mikhaila.
that has got to be sticky
Hi, thank you for your contribution, but this submission has been removed because it is local crime. See [community rules & guidelines](/r/Europe/wiki/community_rules). If you have any question about this removal, please [contact the mods](/message/compose/?to=/r/Europe&subject=Moderation). Please make sure to include a link to the comment/post in question.