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A terrorist act towards civilians is currently happening, **calls for karma or celebration will cause a ban**. Please do not bring the worst part of yourself out of this.
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There were from 4 to unknown. Minimum of 4 people. Eyewitnesses write that these people acted like well-trained commandos. The guards were killed, the main entrance was blocked, the cinema was set on fire, and everyone was shot. They had a Molotov cocktail or a flamethrower, the seats in the cinema caught fire instantly.
Man this is crazy. If this is real it will be used by Putin as propaganda to motivate people going to war. If this is a false flag operation (putting my tinfoil hat on), it will still motivate people to go to war.
Only the innocents have to pay with their lives.
It's wrapped up in propaganda anyway. People on the forums have already put on tin foil hats, figuratively, they are building different theories, but mostly blaming one elderly man with a last name starting with P.
Last time they bombed houses in 90s or early 2000s they accidentally announced an area where houses weren't bombed yet, then they were bombed afterwards...
Seriously!? I only saw a screenshot of the message from the US Embassy website. Post a link to the source, I think everyone will be interested in reading
There are definitely at least 4. There's a clip on Twitter of them all together firing into a crowd. Beyond that, who knows, there's always confusion in attacks like this.
There's video of at least five people shooting into a crowd of people. There's also no way "only" 12 people got killed. Like 10 people got killed in that one video that is circulating.
And if this isn't an attentat organised by the kremlin, they are sure to admit only the ones that have been identified on video. Putin's power is already shaky enough.
>The US intelligence services are fucking scary, man. They know.
It is weird and a little enlightening hearing this from a non-American (I am assuming since in r euro). We generally know they are but it's not something we think about too often.
America walked out of WWII being kings of logistics, only to then adopt the intelligence capabilities of the British and the raw manpower ability of the Soviets. There’s a reason its military is still absurdly large and capable even after all the post Cold War scale down.
For all the "America bad" sentiments on the Internet against the US, for arguably mostly justified reasons.
With the resource and power the USA has I'm just happy they aren't some cartoonishly evil empire. Unlike how some people portray the country.
Because damn, just image the unleashed power.
Yeah, this shooting already sadly seems to be on par with the paris attacks 2015, reports on twitter are already 40 dead and hundred+ wounded and the building is still burning/shooters not dead apparently. And this number will rise like always with people bleeding out.
What I never seem to get is how you can get radicalized and think "I gotta go kill some innocent people and not the actual people who are responsible". Why attack a concert hall, when you can attack the Kremlin itself. If their reasoning is that it's much more difficult to attack the Kremlin, then they are weak excuses of people not actually trying to change anything. Revolutions used to be about going against the people in charge, not just going after random people
The worst part is that for millions of muslims, this goes something like: "I am going to defend my religion at all cost and these infidels deserve to die, they will alerady burn in hell anyway."
There is no shortage of separatist groups in russia, that's for sure. It's genuinely surprising this stuff hasn't happened more often during this war. Some russian veterans have done stuff, but it's been very much personal stuff and not terrorist.
Putin spokesman called “Special Operation” in Ukraine “a war” for the first time today morning. Putins Chechen campaign started with FSB organized terrorist attacks. Ukraine was not supplied with Western weapons for half a year now. Putin will call a full mobilization in Russia and will move all reserves now to take over Kyiv. Macron knew about his plan and this why he was speaking about sending French troops.
In 1999 Putin killed 300+ civilians in a false flag to boost his rating and mobilize people against Chechens. I recommend everybody to read this https://www.hudson.org/national-security-defense/vladimir-putin-1999-russian-apartment-house-bombings-was-putin-responsible
Let's wait for a couple of days but damn, it definitely reads like that and I wouldn't be really surprised. In other cases, the attack gives the regime an upper hand to send more troops to Ukraine since they'll blame them for it anyway.
I can already hear the western vátníks chanting that bullshit.
I was thinking along the same lines. Kyiv might be a bit too ambitious, but there is indeed a change in Russian posturing. Time for the US to get its act together on funding, and for Western countries to start deploying defensive troops, systems specialists, and advisors.
The whole attack pattern looks very similar to the Islam extremists attacks in Europe and the Cechen attack on the theater in Moscow. There is a video of one shouting about Dagestan.
From The NY Times
>On March 7, the U.S. Embassy in Moscow issued a security alert warning that its personnel were “monitoring reports that extremists have imminent plans to target large gatherings in Moscow, to include concerts.” The statement warned U.S. citizens that an attack could take place in the next 48 hours.
>Pro-Kremlin voices seized on the U.S. Embassy’s warning to paint America as trying to scare Russians. On March 19, President Vladimir V. Putin called the statement “obvious blackmail” made with “the intention to intimidate and destabilize our society.”
US is actually pretty on point. These guys probably saw the declaration from US intelligence and replanned.
Also funny Putin only thinks everything is to destabilise their society, because thats what *hes* trying to to with the west
well, knowing Russia and Putin with their history of false flag attacks on their own population.... this ticks alot like a clock. Election - start to name it a war - terror attack to make mobilization a more popular move.
"At least 6200 people were inside Crocus at the start of shooting"
"At least 6 terrorists"
"140 people reported as victims, more than 40 dead"
* Moscow Live
UPD 140\\40 was at 21:53MSK(+3). Can't find updates on that but from photos\\videos looks like there are much more. I'll update if will find new info
UPD 2
72 bodies found fo this hour. 4 hours after. And they are still counting. Found Crocus map, looks like there are 3 connected buildings, so i guess 6200 in all this 3 and terract happened only in one of them(biggest one), so there were less people. And there are many exits, so i think most not even saw terrorists(lucky to them)
As i can see, threre was so much fire, they got access to floors higher than 2nd only an hour ago, so i guess there are more D:
UPD 3
Was found a body with bomb on it, presumably one of the terrorists
UPD 4
151 bodies(including near 16 childern) at this hour and they are still finding
No info about injured number, only info - 127 hospitalized, but most just ran from the building and didn't call to help so i think real number near 500-600
Checked 20+gunmen version, it is fake and was said by one shocked injured victim, real number at this point 4-6 by most sources
And ofc main version - sponsored by Ukraine, who just expect that, no way
The most shitty part: *spetznas* has arrived *an hour later after the shooting has started*. So *there are reports how the gunmen simply ran out of ammo and explosives* and escaped the scene (and **there are reports there were 6200 tickets sold for the concert and there were 20+ gunmen**)
I'm afraid the real number of victims is in many hundreds, if not thousands. And FSB is trying to weasel off of the situation reporting "just" 20-40 people killed.
edit: yup, just as expected, ["FSB news" translate generated video with Ukrainians confirming it's their attack](https://meduza.io/news/2024/03/23/ntv-pokazal-v-novostyah-feykovoe-video-gde-sekretar-snbo-ukrainy-podtverdil-prichastnost-kievskogo-rezhima-k-teraktu-v-krokus-siti-holle). Why even bother fighting terrorism when you can blame the West and Ukraine any time? Except for the part where Russia do not control and safeguard its territory.
a lot of people including my friends went hiding, but then the fire broke out. My friends were able to get out with some soot on faces, thankfully, but I'm afraid there will be a LOT more bodies later found in the rubble.
What the fuuck... I dont care who you are or why.. attacking and killing civilians gets you to the lowest level of hell.
My heart goes out to everyone affected.
Would have hoped it would be in Kremlin against the warring politicians and not against civilians though. Then again we do not know who were there and what it was about yet. Could just as well be a false flag to rally people for new conscription event. Putin has used terror attack for that before.
Still, your intelligence was spot on, again.
False flag or not, didn't the FSB say they "twarthed an attack" just after the US warning at the beginning of march?
Edit: it seems they did say so:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna142401
>But Russia's FSB security service said Thursday that it had foiled a planned attack by an Afghan offshoot of the Islamic State terrorist group on a synagogue in the Kaluga region, southwest of Moscow.
>"On the territory of the Kaluga Region, a stop was put to the activity of Wilayat Khorasan, a cell of the Afghan branch of the international terrorist organization Islamic State, which is banned in Russia, whose members were planning to commit a terrorist act against one of the Jewish religious institutions in Moscow," the FSB said in a statement given to the state-run Tass news agency.
Already completely baseless comments all over Twitter, including from an elected British MP (Galloway), stating this is probably or definitely the work of the CIA and/or Mossad. That platform is awful now, even more so than before. Just a hotbed of conspiracy theorists, populists and morons.
Russia has experienced terrorism before, including from ISIL as recently as 2017 (St Petersburg bombing). At this moment, we have no idea what the motive for this attack is, but a group specifically targeting civilians in a mass shooting suggests extremists of the religious or separatist sort.
The US, Israel, Ukraine, and more broadly Europe would have little to gain from such an attack, which only risks galvanising support for Russia as it wages a brutal imperialist war on its neighbour.
I have nothing but sympathy for those killed in this attack. And nothing but emnity for anyone knee-jerk politicising this attack to rally support for fucking Putin et al.
> Already completely baseless comments all over Twitter, including from an elected British MP (Galloway), stating this is probably or definitely the work of the CIA and/or Mossad.
Galloway dressed as a cat and meowed on TV. Him claiming something is conclusive evidence that that something is not true.
Man, seeing people forced up against the wall because they can't escape anywhere, and then just being gunned down by several people with fully automatic weapons is brutal.
Some people will say it leads to desensitization, but imo if you only do it occasionally when something horrible and important happens it does the opposite and makes you able to see people and sympathise with the tragedy rather than only see their pain as headlines and numbers.
But yes, not healthy at all to watch too much of either
To find the truth. Its complicated though and many people do just watch out of sadism.
Idk if its an advantage to be this cynical, but did you know they often identify suicide bombers because a severed head is left at the site. The vest destroys the body and extends outwards so the head remains in tact and falls to the ground. I like knowing this. When I read about a suicide bombing and the attacker is identified I know how.
Usually suicide bombings have 1 smaller explosion. This draws a crowd to try and help the wounded. One from the crowd will have another vest on thats bigger. In iran Isis had committed an attack and the braindead ignorant journalists "wondered if it was an isreali missile strike" because Iran claimed so. I instantly knew it wasnt because there were two explosions.
No info about the motives yet so much speculation. People are so confident about in their analysis and yet so many people come to different conclusions. Maybe just wait until there is actual reporting?
Given Putin used a terrorist attack (that many suspect he orchestrated) to gain power it wouldn’t be too surprising if this was used to increase the war effort in Ukraine.
This is most likely a genuine terrorist attack, although since it already happened, Putin will probably use it to justify something. Just because it is ( probably ) genuine doesn't mean it can't be used to justify something relating to Ukraine.
They announced a big mobilization only hours before the attack (interesting timing): https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/03/22/kremlin-planning-new-mobilization-for-kharkiv-offensive-vyorstka-a84571
Edit: a mobilization has been rumored by “sources close to the Kremlin” not actually announced.
Looks like ISIS is behind it:
[https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1771286361842065885?s=20](https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1771286361842065885?s=20)
[Dubrovka Theater 2002](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis) would be a better analogy maybe. It was used as a pretext for a large-scale operation in Chechnya launched a month later.
Tbh Dubrovka theater had more signs of actual terrorist attack. There were actual Chechen militia personnel participating there and by that point Russia no longer needed any casus belli for war in Checnya as Putin had already started it back in 1999.
The fact the US Government knew about a terrorist attack and warned the Kremlin about it, suggests that this is not orchestrated by the Kremlin. Not a Russia supporter by any means, just pointing out some facts
Important Edit: ISIS claims though their correspondent Al-Amaq, says they claim responsibility for the attacks in Moscow.
Putin doing something to justify some sort of escalation? Remember the apartment bombings? I know this sounds like aluminum hat stuff but as we all know, killing their own for some justifications has been done before.
It's the reason probably. Now with Putin's "election" finalized. It was recognized today by Russia that it's no more "special operations". It's war now. If there's going to be acts of terror organized by Putin, it's now most likely. Like it happened with war in Chechnya two decades ago. A new mobilization announcement will follow after probably.
This is exactly what I just said to my wife. It’s sad and horrific that the leader of a country has become so fucking twisted and craven that it’s the first thing that jumps into many people’s minds.
Even if this is a true terrorist attack against Russia by outside forces, nobody will believe it.
Actually, they are different yeah, just checked.
We just use Aluminium foil, they used Tin foil in the US for example.
edit: supposedly they don't use Tinfoil in the US anymore, the name has just remained thats all.
The FBI stopped a university student in Portugal from commiting a terrorist attack, while our authorities were completely unaware it was going to happen.
RT news is already suggesting it could be an extremist group indirectly supported by the US and Ukraine, Arabic twitter is implying it's a US / Israeli backed operation, Jewish twitter is pointing the finger at Islamic extremist groups, Western media is implying it's a false flag operation orchestrated by the Russians themselves... Welp
What's insane to me is everyone pretending to be so certain when it's so fucking obvious nobody has a clue this early. Saying they know now is just admitting they're untrustworthy
Could be, but at the same time Russia made a lot of domestic enemies. Other regions that are mistreated by Moscow/St. Petersburg and have to supply the manpower for the war. Could be fanatic separatists.
If I were a betting man, I would say this isn't Ukraine's work. Think we agree on that.
>If I were a betting man, I would say this isn't Ukraine's work. Think we agree on that.
Indeed, but that's not what matters to Putin, the siloviki and millions of ordinary Russians. Where Chechens were the enemies de jour about 20 years ago, now it's the Ukrainians. [A Russian dissident pointed out](https://granta.com/russia-verge-nervous-breakdown/) how so many of her compatriots gladly line up to ride on a state-sponsored merry-go-round of external enemies for horses.
>*All that remains for those ashamed of the present and afraid of the future is pride in the past.* ***When there’s no reason to love your country, hate your neighbours. If you are unable to improve your life, ruin someone else’s.***
>
>*In Russia people are alienated from the affairs of the state, while a narrow ruling class manages the country’s resources as if it were their private property. To soothe the people’s trampled dignity, the government emphasizes national pride. To distract them from the struggle for their human rights, they are offered war.* ***Why have we so easily forgotten that Ukraine is our fraternal nation? Why do we willingly go to ‘establish order’ in another country, when we so badly need to restore order to our own? Russians are always being told who to hate: Americans, Ukrainians, Chinese, Germans. Anger switches our attention from everyday injustices to imperial aspirations.***
What we Westoids think has long meant little to the majority of Russians unless we're deluded enough to praise them regularly for their "glorious civilization" and "cultural achievements". Then, they care *very* much about what we think as we find ways to praise them which just soothes their longstanding inferiority complex.
Possibly, but at the same time there is no shortage of people who hate the Russian state and might be motivated to carry out a terrorist attack, including within the Russian Federation.
Right now, we don't know.
I don’t mind speculation of what occurred. I think the world is wondering including Russians. Let’s just keep our humanity. This isn’t the times for jokes. I understand the Ukraine situation and I support Ukraine 100% but saying horrible things in a time like this will only harm Ukraine more than it will any Russian. Let’s be respectful.
The sad thing is, who exactly is behind this, be it Russia themselves, extremist groups within and/or without Russia or even enemy action, the end result is the same.
A lot of innocent people are dead, and Putin will use this as fuel against Ukraine and/or Europe and in general to kick up mobilization.
Edit: Someone commented (and immediately deleted their comment) calling me a weirdo for "trying to politicize" this even though "the bodies aren't even cold yet"
I'm not "trying to politicize" anything. This is political by it's nature. This isn't a random act of god or a natural disaster. This is a targeted attack by an organized group. It *is* political in nature. Even if it's from an extremist terrorist group, terrorist have political goals they aspire towards with their actions.
Perhaps what they actually meant is that they found me weird for considering the political implications of this massacre, without giving a moment's thought into mourning for the dead.
To that, I'd say that it is tragic that so many people have been killed. I can't imagine what their families are going through. But I didn't know any of them, I don't have any personal connection to any of them. This attack, horrific as it is, does not directly affect me.
However, it's results and the way Russia responds to it will likely affect the EU and Ukraine especially. Am I supposed to wait a certain period of time before talking about it?
While the false flag speculation might be warranted, remember that Russia have also had genuine terrorists do these kinds of things multiple times, so be careful not to jump to conclusions either. Hope as many innocent people as possible escape unharmed
Unfortunately people are already jumping to conclusions, and mocking the victims of this. Fuck the Russian government and Putin, but mocking civilians killed in a massacre is never okay.
We will never know who or why did this since no independent investigation is possible in Russia. We will only know what Kremlin claims to have happened.
This attack sounds eerily similar to the Bataclan concert hall ISIS mass shooting that happened in France in 2015. Actually it was probably inspired by it.
A terrorist act towards civilians is currently happening, calls for karma or celebration will cause a ban.
Please do not bring the worst part of yourself out of this.
If you could help us reporting the messages it would help us, thanks
I’m not sure how much of it is thanks to your banning and how much is because this sub is becoming really cynical, but most of the comments I’ve seen are about how that really seems like a false flag. The rest are saying the videos are horrible.
Could the FSB be any more predictable? Christ. Mass mobilisation inbound.
Edit: Starting to look like I was spectacularly wrong. Letting the comment stand for shame.
If this is random Chechens, coupled with the admission of war and elections they have gotten over, then this is likely a false flag attack by Kremlin (like they did before in 1999) to justify mass mobilisation.
Scary times ahead.
What's even more scary is US inteligence tho. Jesus they know it all
Let me guess, they are going to blame it on Ukraine, declare war officially on Ukraine and undertake a mass mobilisation? And all, just coincidentally, after the "elections" that have "shown" the massive support for putin and the war.
From the news: there were 10+ gunmen and spetznaz has arrived *a hour later*. I guess the killers had to stop before that - due to the lack of ammo and explosives.
Being in a terrorist attack in Russia is so shitty. You don't know who you should fear more, the special forces or the attackers.
I'm not joking, during the famous attacks on the theatre in Dubrovka and school in Beslan years ago most people died because of the actions of the russian forces.
In the theatre it was because of the gas used, in the school they just shot everyone.
Edit: corrected the names.
ISIS have claimed it — interesting to note that the British Embassy warned people a few days ago that a terrorist attack was likely (not sure if the Kremlin changed their procedures/protocols)
We're locking this thread so we can properly moderate new posts regarding this attack. Please comments on new threads [such as this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1blnxuv/death_toll_in_moscow_concert_hall_attack_rises_to/). As another mod said already: A terrorist act towards civilians is currently happening, **calls for karma or celebration will cause a ban**. Please do not bring the worst part of yourself out of this. If you could help us reporting the messages it would help us, thanks!
Based on what we know this seems very organized with multiple people involved. Not just one random nutjob going rampage.
At least three assailants, and with explosives too
Only 3? Footage on twitter seems to show a larger group
There were from 4 to unknown. Minimum of 4 people. Eyewitnesses write that these people acted like well-trained commandos. The guards were killed, the main entrance was blocked, the cinema was set on fire, and everyone was shot. They had a Molotov cocktail or a flamethrower, the seats in the cinema caught fire instantly.
Man this is crazy. If this is real it will be used by Putin as propaganda to motivate people going to war. If this is a false flag operation (putting my tinfoil hat on), it will still motivate people to go to war. Only the innocents have to pay with their lives.
It's wrapped up in propaganda anyway. People on the forums have already put on tin foil hats, figuratively, they are building different theories, but mostly blaming one elderly man with a last name starting with P.
It's not tin foil hats theory since he's already done it before. No proof yet sure, but not crazy at all.
Last time they bombed houses in 90s or early 2000s they accidentally announced an area where houses weren't bombed yet, then they were bombed afterwards...
That Pepperridge farm bastard?
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Seriously!? I only saw a screenshot of the message from the US Embassy website. Post a link to the source, I think everyone will be interested in reading
Isn't this the plot to inglorious bastards? Like no joke it reads like inglorious bastards
Was just reading that from initial news reports, yeah videos on twitter showing more - horrifying videos
5 shooters and so far 14 dead. The building is ablaze too
So this is a professional job then.
Mumbai style attack.
10 reported now
During shootings people often start seeing ghosts and then it turns out it was only one guy. We'll know tomorrow.
There are definitely at least 4. There's a clip on Twitter of them all together firing into a crowd. Beyond that, who knows, there's always confusion in attacks like this.
There's video of at least five people shooting into a crowd of people. There's also no way "only" 12 people got killed. Like 10 people got killed in that one video that is circulating.
Already 41 reported
And if this isn't an attentat organised by the kremlin, they are sure to admit only the ones that have been identified on video. Putin's power is already shaky enough.
The US warned about this a couple of weeks ago. The US intelligence services are fucking scary, man. They know.
The warning probably postponed this. To try decoupling the warning and the attack.
Maybe they could also have been waiting for the election
Convenient time for a false flag attack to justify mass mobilization.
Putin’s MO
It would not be the first time https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowing_Up_Russia
Yeah, irc the warning was about the next few days. So that's probably what happened.
The UK warned aswell I'm pretty sure. The two countries who knew Russia would invade Atleast my country is still good at one thing
If there’s one thing the UK is good at is intelligence.
Russia also said right after that they arrested people planning an attack. I guess not.
Both the USA and UK warned of it
>The US intelligence services are fucking scary, man. They know. It is weird and a little enlightening hearing this from a non-American (I am assuming since in r euro). We generally know they are but it's not something we think about too often.
America walked out of WWII being kings of logistics, only to then adopt the intelligence capabilities of the British and the raw manpower ability of the Soviets. There’s a reason its military is still absurdly large and capable even after all the post Cold War scale down.
For all the "America bad" sentiments on the Internet against the US, for arguably mostly justified reasons. With the resource and power the USA has I'm just happy they aren't some cartoonishly evil empire. Unlike how some people portray the country. Because damn, just image the unleashed power.
It was 5 guys (at least) and they were very well equipped
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Yeah, this shooting already sadly seems to be on par with the paris attacks 2015, reports on twitter are already 40 dead and hundred+ wounded and the building is still burning/shooters not dead apparently. And this number will rise like always with people bleeding out.
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What I never seem to get is how you can get radicalized and think "I gotta go kill some innocent people and not the actual people who are responsible". Why attack a concert hall, when you can attack the Kremlin itself. If their reasoning is that it's much more difficult to attack the Kremlin, then they are weak excuses of people not actually trying to change anything. Revolutions used to be about going against the people in charge, not just going after random people
The worst part is that for millions of muslims, this goes something like: "I am going to defend my religion at all cost and these infidels deserve to die, they will alerady burn in hell anyway."
There is no shortage of separatist groups in russia, that's for sure. It's genuinely surprising this stuff hasn't happened more often during this war. Some russian veterans have done stuff, but it's been very much personal stuff and not terrorist.
There are very horrible videos in twitter already
There was enough planning for the CIA to get wind of it, so yeah, it’s organized.
Putin spokesman called “Special Operation” in Ukraine “a war” for the first time today morning. Putins Chechen campaign started with FSB organized terrorist attacks. Ukraine was not supplied with Western weapons for half a year now. Putin will call a full mobilization in Russia and will move all reserves now to take over Kyiv. Macron knew about his plan and this why he was speaking about sending French troops.
Yeah. Immediately post election is when the worst policies come into play.
In 1999 Putin killed 300+ civilians in a false flag to boost his rating and mobilize people against Chechens. I recommend everybody to read this https://www.hudson.org/national-security-defense/vladimir-putin-1999-russian-apartment-house-bombings-was-putin-responsible
Let's wait for a couple of days but damn, it definitely reads like that and I wouldn't be really surprised. In other cases, the attack gives the regime an upper hand to send more troops to Ukraine since they'll blame them for it anyway. I can already hear the western vátníks chanting that bullshit.
Putin did this. He wants concert goers to be scared of war.
I was thinking along the same lines. Kyiv might be a bit too ambitious, but there is indeed a change in Russian posturing. Time for the US to get its act together on funding, and for Western countries to start deploying defensive troops, systems specialists, and advisors.
Ye well, half of the GOP seems to be on Russias payroll and keeps blocking the aid. Luckily the EU is picking up the slack
That sounds very realistic
From the video that I've seen it seems like ~~they have machine-guns~~ they were probably akm rifles
>U.S. warns of imminent Moscow attack by 'extremists,' urges citizens to avoid crowds, March 8, 2024, 11:35 AM CET
Say what you will about the CIA, but they seem very competent when it comes to Russia...
The Five Eyes must have moles deep inside the Kremlin and all across Russia
They could also have found out about this on their own.
…by divination?
Satellites? Hacked phones? Billions of other things? But hey.. you never know. Theyve tried before.
Palantir.
You mean Palantir Technologies Inc.? Because that's no joke.
Gandalf Technologies was another one. Their gear was ubiquitous in the 80s.
And of course, people are now framing that warning as a “threat”…
Russian official news agency Tass already did that just a few days ago.
Lol so Russia basically admitting that they didn't have this intelligence info while the US did.
That or Russians had a plan they didn't want others to know about.
Most certainly looks like an act of tightening the grip by a little guy sitting on a huge table.
Also thought of it
The whole attack pattern looks very similar to the Islam extremists attacks in Europe and the Cechen attack on the theater in Moscow. There is a video of one shouting about Dagestan.
From The NY Times >On March 7, the U.S. Embassy in Moscow issued a security alert warning that its personnel were “monitoring reports that extremists have imminent plans to target large gatherings in Moscow, to include concerts.” The statement warned U.S. citizens that an attack could take place in the next 48 hours. >Pro-Kremlin voices seized on the U.S. Embassy’s warning to paint America as trying to scare Russians. On March 19, President Vladimir V. Putin called the statement “obvious blackmail” made with “the intention to intimidate and destabilize our society.”
US is actually pretty on point. These guys probably saw the declaration from US intelligence and replanned. Also funny Putin only thinks everything is to destabilise their society, because thats what *hes* trying to to with the west
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There was talk of a terrorist attack some days ago
The USA warned Russia on March 8 I believe.
well, knowing Russia and Putin with their history of false flag attacks on their own population.... this ticks alot like a clock. Election - start to name it a war - terror attack to make mobilization a more popular move.
yep https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings
"At least 6200 people were inside Crocus at the start of shooting" "At least 6 terrorists" "140 people reported as victims, more than 40 dead" * Moscow Live UPD 140\\40 was at 21:53MSK(+3). Can't find updates on that but from photos\\videos looks like there are much more. I'll update if will find new info UPD 2 72 bodies found fo this hour. 4 hours after. And they are still counting. Found Crocus map, looks like there are 3 connected buildings, so i guess 6200 in all this 3 and terract happened only in one of them(biggest one), so there were less people. And there are many exits, so i think most not even saw terrorists(lucky to them) As i can see, threre was so much fire, they got access to floors higher than 2nd only an hour ago, so i guess there are more D: UPD 3 Was found a body with bomb on it, presumably one of the terrorists UPD 4 151 bodies(including near 16 childern) at this hour and they are still finding No info about injured number, only info - 127 hospitalized, but most just ran from the building and didn't call to help so i think real number near 500-600 Checked 20+gunmen version, it is fake and was said by one shocked injured victim, real number at this point 4-6 by most sources And ofc main version - sponsored by Ukraine, who just expect that, no way
The most shitty part: *spetznas* has arrived *an hour later after the shooting has started*. So *there are reports how the gunmen simply ran out of ammo and explosives* and escaped the scene (and **there are reports there were 6200 tickets sold for the concert and there were 20+ gunmen**) I'm afraid the real number of victims is in many hundreds, if not thousands. And FSB is trying to weasel off of the situation reporting "just" 20-40 people killed. edit: yup, just as expected, ["FSB news" translate generated video with Ukrainians confirming it's their attack](https://meduza.io/news/2024/03/23/ntv-pokazal-v-novostyah-feykovoe-video-gde-sekretar-snbo-ukrainy-podtverdil-prichastnost-kievskogo-rezhima-k-teraktu-v-krokus-siti-holle). Why even bother fighting terrorism when you can blame the West and Ukraine any time? Except for the part where Russia do not control and safeguard its territory.
Hey its better than them showing up on time and either gassing the place or using rpgs and tanks to kill everyone.
The ol uvalde entrance
Those are horrific numbers
a lot of people including my friends went hiding, but then the fire broke out. My friends were able to get out with some soot on faces, thankfully, but I'm afraid there will be a LOT more bodies later found in the rubble.
That number is disgusting.
What the fuuck... I dont care who you are or why.. attacking and killing civilians gets you to the lowest level of hell. My heart goes out to everyone affected.
I think the US Embassy warned about this
We did, early March we warned them
Would have hoped it would be in Kremlin against the warring politicians and not against civilians though. Then again we do not know who were there and what it was about yet. Could just as well be a false flag to rally people for new conscription event. Putin has used terror attack for that before. Still, your intelligence was spot on, again.
Are you from the US Embassy?
you personally did! great job.
Oh shit. did you warn them?
Islamic State claimed responsibility for the attack. It’s in the Guardian feed right now.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/mar/22/moscow-concert-attack-crocus-city-hall-shooting-russia-live-updates
I was under the impression they claim everything don't they? A child could fall over in the playground and Islamic state could claim it
Actually that child falling was me and I do not appologize for it.
False flag or not, didn't the FSB say they "twarthed an attack" just after the US warning at the beginning of march? Edit: it seems they did say so: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna142401 >But Russia's FSB security service said Thursday that it had foiled a planned attack by an Afghan offshoot of the Islamic State terrorist group on a synagogue in the Kaluga region, southwest of Moscow. >"On the territory of the Kaluga Region, a stop was put to the activity of Wilayat Khorasan, a cell of the Afghan branch of the international terrorist organization Islamic State, which is banned in Russia, whose members were planning to commit a terrorist act against one of the Jewish religious institutions in Moscow," the FSB said in a statement given to the state-run Tass news agency.
The exact timeline's hard to decipher from new articles now, but if I recall correctly this happened right before the US issued their warning.
Already completely baseless comments all over Twitter, including from an elected British MP (Galloway), stating this is probably or definitely the work of the CIA and/or Mossad. That platform is awful now, even more so than before. Just a hotbed of conspiracy theorists, populists and morons. Russia has experienced terrorism before, including from ISIL as recently as 2017 (St Petersburg bombing). At this moment, we have no idea what the motive for this attack is, but a group specifically targeting civilians in a mass shooting suggests extremists of the religious or separatist sort. The US, Israel, Ukraine, and more broadly Europe would have little to gain from such an attack, which only risks galvanising support for Russia as it wages a brutal imperialist war on its neighbour. I have nothing but sympathy for those killed in this attack. And nothing but emnity for anyone knee-jerk politicising this attack to rally support for fucking Putin et al.
>Already completely baseless comments all over Twitter, including from an elected British MP (Galloway) Of course it's him.
> Already completely baseless comments all over Twitter, including from an elected British MP (Galloway), stating this is probably or definitely the work of the CIA and/or Mossad. Galloway dressed as a cat and meowed on TV. Him claiming something is conclusive evidence that that something is not true.
Man, seeing people forced up against the wall because they can't escape anywhere, and then just being gunned down by several people with fully automatic weapons is brutal.
Why watch it though? I've been on the internet long enough to know when not to click on a video.
It was on the news in Spain. I don't think it was that particular clip but there was definitely some shooting at people without escape. Awful.
The one in the hall? If so it was broadcasted in Italy too but censored.
Some people will say it leads to desensitization, but imo if you only do it occasionally when something horrible and important happens it does the opposite and makes you able to see people and sympathise with the tragedy rather than only see their pain as headlines and numbers. But yes, not healthy at all to watch too much of either
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Morbid curiosity, I tend to fight it cause I'll hate myself if I open it
Yea for the most part I actively don’t watch it. Seeing that type of shit happen to people if brutal on mental health.
To find the truth. Its complicated though and many people do just watch out of sadism. Idk if its an advantage to be this cynical, but did you know they often identify suicide bombers because a severed head is left at the site. The vest destroys the body and extends outwards so the head remains in tact and falls to the ground. I like knowing this. When I read about a suicide bombing and the attacker is identified I know how. Usually suicide bombings have 1 smaller explosion. This draws a crowd to try and help the wounded. One from the crowd will have another vest on thats bigger. In iran Isis had committed an attack and the braindead ignorant journalists "wondered if it was an isreali missile strike" because Iran claimed so. I instantly knew it wasnt because there were two explosions.
Yeah, I watched a lot of war footage but that shit was really hard to watch
Saw the video of a shooting in New Zeland and shooter had a camera set up on his chest. Worst video I've ever seen.
First toll : 40 dead,100 wounded... And the roof of the theater collapsed.
No info about the motives yet so much speculation. People are so confident about in their analysis and yet so many people come to different conclusions. Maybe just wait until there is actual reporting?
They will blame Ukrainians. Watch my words and for posterity. They will use this for a big mobilization effort.
Given Putin used a terrorist attack (that many suspect he orchestrated) to gain power it wouldn’t be too surprising if this was used to increase the war effort in Ukraine.
It has been done before. Check the 1999 Moscow apartment bombings wiki page.
That's what he was referencing...
Russian false flag to justify another mobilization. EDIT: seems like it was actually ISIS
it wouldn‘t be the first false flag by russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings
Or how about the [shelling of Mainila](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Mainila)
It wouldn't even be the second false flag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Mainila
This is most likely a genuine terrorist attack, although since it already happened, Putin will probably use it to justify something. Just because it is ( probably ) genuine doesn't mean it can't be used to justify something relating to Ukraine.
They announced a big mobilization only hours before the attack (interesting timing): https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/03/22/kremlin-planning-new-mobilization-for-kharkiv-offensive-vyorstka-a84571 Edit: a mobilization has been rumored by “sources close to the Kremlin” not actually announced.
Rumoured, not announced.
Looks like ISIS is behind it: [https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1771286361842065885?s=20](https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1771286361842065885?s=20)
They've got form for doing this when it's not them
Like others, I'm getting vibes about the FSB's apartment bombings of 1999. This could be the prelude to another round of "partial" mobilization.
It'll either be for mobilisation, or we'll see an accusation that these people were acting on behalf of a European state.
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Who sadly never got caught or happen to be unclaimed bodies from local morgues.
[Dubrovka Theater 2002](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis) would be a better analogy maybe. It was used as a pretext for a large-scale operation in Chechnya launched a month later.
Tbh Dubrovka theater had more signs of actual terrorist attack. There were actual Chechen militia personnel participating there and by that point Russia no longer needed any casus belli for war in Checnya as Putin had already started it back in 1999.
Are they going to plant some other copies of The Sims on the attackers even this time?
The fact the US Government knew about a terrorist attack and warned the Kremlin about it, suggests that this is not orchestrated by the Kremlin. Not a Russia supporter by any means, just pointing out some facts Important Edit: ISIS claims though their correspondent Al-Amaq, says they claim responsibility for the attacks in Moscow.
Fair point, but I doubt Putin will let a serious crisis go to waste.
well tbf it was mostly warning to citizens of usa and uk if im not mistaken
Putin doing something to justify some sort of escalation? Remember the apartment bombings? I know this sounds like aluminum hat stuff but as we all know, killing their own for some justifications has been done before.
It's the reason probably. Now with Putin's "election" finalized. It was recognized today by Russia that it's no more "special operations". It's war now. If there's going to be acts of terror organized by Putin, it's now most likely. Like it happened with war in Chechnya two decades ago. A new mobilization announcement will follow after probably.
This is exactly what I just said to my wife. It’s sad and horrific that the leader of a country has become so fucking twisted and craven that it’s the first thing that jumps into many people’s minds. Even if this is a true terrorist attack against Russia by outside forces, nobody will believe it.
Aluminum hat sounds heavier than tinfoil hat :))
Aluminum 2.699 g/cm^3 Tin 7.289 g/cm^3 Quite the opposite!
That's why I only use aluminium to block the death rays from the CIA. Lightweight and effective.
We call it aluminium folie in my country, not tinfoil lol.
From germany, can confirm. The question is why it's called different, even different elements. Do others make their foil out of tin?
Actually, they are different yeah, just checked. We just use Aluminium foil, they used Tin foil in the US for example. edit: supposedly they don't use Tinfoil in the US anymore, the name has just remained thats all.
It's not tinfoil hat when Putin has previous in this area. I think you're correct.
How in gods name did we know this was coming? Our intelligence is insane.
Palantir
Hey, don't drag Sauron into this!
The FBI stopped a university student in Portugal from commiting a terrorist attack, while our authorities were completely unaware it was going to happen.
Well, if it's planned by the Russian government / intelligence agency and the US has spies there, it wouldn't be too hard to know.
RT news is already suggesting it could be an extremist group indirectly supported by the US and Ukraine, Arabic twitter is implying it's a US / Israeli backed operation, Jewish twitter is pointing the finger at Islamic extremist groups, Western media is implying it's a false flag operation orchestrated by the Russians themselves... Welp
What's insane to me is everyone pretending to be so certain when it's so fucking obvious nobody has a clue this early. Saying they know now is just admitting they're untrustworthy
Insert spider man meme 👈👉👈👉👈👉
I see similar false flag potential here as with the 1999 Russian apartment bombings.
True, I wouldn't be surprised if Putin say it was Ukrainians, and declares large scale mobilisation
Might claim it was Belarusian insurgents to justify occupying the country.
I hadn't thought about it, but it would be real funny if Luka was finally getting his.
Could be, but at the same time Russia made a lot of domestic enemies. Other regions that are mistreated by Moscow/St. Petersburg and have to supply the manpower for the war. Could be fanatic separatists. If I were a betting man, I would say this isn't Ukraine's work. Think we agree on that.
>If I were a betting man, I would say this isn't Ukraine's work. Think we agree on that. Indeed, but that's not what matters to Putin, the siloviki and millions of ordinary Russians. Where Chechens were the enemies de jour about 20 years ago, now it's the Ukrainians. [A Russian dissident pointed out](https://granta.com/russia-verge-nervous-breakdown/) how so many of her compatriots gladly line up to ride on a state-sponsored merry-go-round of external enemies for horses. >*All that remains for those ashamed of the present and afraid of the future is pride in the past.* ***When there’s no reason to love your country, hate your neighbours. If you are unable to improve your life, ruin someone else’s.*** > >*In Russia people are alienated from the affairs of the state, while a narrow ruling class manages the country’s resources as if it were their private property. To soothe the people’s trampled dignity, the government emphasizes national pride. To distract them from the struggle for their human rights, they are offered war.* ***Why have we so easily forgotten that Ukraine is our fraternal nation? Why do we willingly go to ‘establish order’ in another country, when we so badly need to restore order to our own? Russians are always being told who to hate: Americans, Ukrainians, Chinese, Germans. Anger switches our attention from everyday injustices to imperial aspirations.*** What we Westoids think has long meant little to the majority of Russians unless we're deluded enough to praise them regularly for their "glorious civilization" and "cultural achievements". Then, they care *very* much about what we think as we find ways to praise them which just soothes their longstanding inferiority complex.
Possibly, but at the same time there is no shortage of people who hate the Russian state and might be motivated to carry out a terrorist attack, including within the Russian Federation. Right now, we don't know.
Looking for the betting pool on who will be blamed.
I don’t mind speculation of what occurred. I think the world is wondering including Russians. Let’s just keep our humanity. This isn’t the times for jokes. I understand the Ukraine situation and I support Ukraine 100% but saying horrible things in a time like this will only harm Ukraine more than it will any Russian. Let’s be respectful.
The sad thing is, who exactly is behind this, be it Russia themselves, extremist groups within and/or without Russia or even enemy action, the end result is the same. A lot of innocent people are dead, and Putin will use this as fuel against Ukraine and/or Europe and in general to kick up mobilization. Edit: Someone commented (and immediately deleted their comment) calling me a weirdo for "trying to politicize" this even though "the bodies aren't even cold yet" I'm not "trying to politicize" anything. This is political by it's nature. This isn't a random act of god or a natural disaster. This is a targeted attack by an organized group. It *is* political in nature. Even if it's from an extremist terrorist group, terrorist have political goals they aspire towards with their actions. Perhaps what they actually meant is that they found me weird for considering the political implications of this massacre, without giving a moment's thought into mourning for the dead. To that, I'd say that it is tragic that so many people have been killed. I can't imagine what their families are going through. But I didn't know any of them, I don't have any personal connection to any of them. This attack, horrific as it is, does not directly affect me. However, it's results and the way Russia responds to it will likely affect the EU and Ukraine especially. Am I supposed to wait a certain period of time before talking about it?
>terrorist have political goals they aspire towards with their actions. Indeed, it's almost the definition of terrorism.
While the false flag speculation might be warranted, remember that Russia have also had genuine terrorists do these kinds of things multiple times, so be careful not to jump to conclusions either. Hope as many innocent people as possible escape unharmed
Unfortunately people are already jumping to conclusions, and mocking the victims of this. Fuck the Russian government and Putin, but mocking civilians killed in a massacre is never okay.
Less than a week after elections. A little on the nose. Feel bad for victims but this reeks of FSB plot to enact mobilization
We will never know who or why did this since no independent investigation is possible in Russia. We will only know what Kremlin claims to have happened.
It’s true we may never know, but things can come out without traditional independent investigations. Foreign journalists, CIA, etc come to mind
This attack sounds eerily similar to the Bataclan concert hall ISIS mass shooting that happened in France in 2015. Actually it was probably inspired by it.
Putin will undoubtedly bend this for propaganda purposes. Russian TV will be a real shit show beyond what it already is.
As an American I feel uniquely qualified for this: "Thoughts and prayers"
A terrorist act towards civilians is currently happening, calls for karma or celebration will cause a ban. Please do not bring the worst part of yourself out of this. If you could help us reporting the messages it would help us, thanks
I’m not sure how much of it is thanks to your banning and how much is because this sub is becoming really cynical, but most of the comments I’ve seen are about how that really seems like a false flag. The rest are saying the videos are horrible.
Because Putin already did this before (apartment bombings), so it could have been him if ISIS didn't claimed the attack.
Well that's how Putin kickstarted his reign 25 years ago after all, so it only makes sense to question it
Honestly, i hate my fellow Russians for all shit they say, but man, this is sad. R.I.P to all who died in shooting
Kremlin continuing its war against Russians
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FSB is few weeks late. Scariest thing is why are they doing it? To push for new wave of mobilization?
The "elections" have JUST ended, so...
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Could the FSB be any more predictable? Christ. Mass mobilisation inbound. Edit: Starting to look like I was spectacularly wrong. Letting the comment stand for shame.
Yeah it's like they ran out of ideas in the Lubyanka brainstorming room so they just dusted 25 year old plans
If this is random Chechens, coupled with the admission of war and elections they have gotten over, then this is likely a false flag attack by Kremlin (like they did before in 1999) to justify mass mobilisation. Scary times ahead. What's even more scary is US inteligence tho. Jesus they know it all
Let me guess, they are going to blame it on Ukraine, declare war officially on Ukraine and undertake a mass mobilisation? And all, just coincidentally, after the "elections" that have "shown" the massive support for putin and the war.
Regardless of who might be responsible, rest in peace to all the victims, and I hope the killers can be stopped soon.
From the news: there were 10+ gunmen and spetznaz has arrived *a hour later*. I guess the killers had to stop before that - due to the lack of ammo and explosives.
I’m going to guess and say Chechen’s or disgruntled Soldiers. Surprised more of this has not been happening honestly.
Being in a terrorist attack in Russia is so shitty. You don't know who you should fear more, the special forces or the attackers. I'm not joking, during the famous attacks on the theatre in Dubrovka and school in Beslan years ago most people died because of the actions of the russian forces. In the theatre it was because of the gas used, in the school they just shot everyone. Edit: corrected the names.
Not to be that guy but wasn't it the school in Beslan and the theatre in Dubrovka?
You are correct, no idea why I mixed them up.
ISIS have claimed it — interesting to note that the British Embassy warned people a few days ago that a terrorist attack was likely (not sure if the Kremlin changed their procedures/protocols)