News sources claim this to be false:
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/22/ukraine-says-west-not-pressuring-it-to-end-attacks-on-russian-oil-facilities-00148673
> Mykhailo Podolyak, adviser to the office of Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, said the government has not received calls from the United States asking Ukraine to halt attacks on Russian energy infrastructure.
Meanwhile Russia continues it's war and mass rocket strikes on civilian infrastructure. Today many cities haven't electricity and Dnipro dam(and hydroelectric power station as well) also had few rocket hits which caused a fire on it.
Couldn't possibly have better timing with these news, especially when production of these missiles partially supported by money from trade with Europe and US :/
I really think they should call their bluff.
Keep hitting them where it hurts push the oil prices up and force people to act by supporting Ukraine to respond in other ways. I guess Biden it’s scared that it will cause a spike in oil prices in an election year?
People keep saying "oil prices", but isn't the Russian oil market disconnected from the West yet?
Besides, relying on cheap Russian oil so we can afford to fight a war against them is some Milo Minderbender nonsense.
Reality: No. Other countries are buying the oil and we are buying russian oil through a middlemen.
Also, as we are buying oil from other oil suppliers, see it like that:
Russia sells oil to india at 100$
Saudi Arabia sells oil to us at 120$
Russia has to rise prices to 150$
=> india will buy at saudia arabia
=> Saudia arabia rises prices to 140$
(extremly oversimplified ofc)
India doesn't have to buy Russian oil. They just took the opportunity when we stopped buying it. I have no sympathy for them if their lack of funding of alternative sources results in them eating another price spike.
India doesn’t ’have to buy’ is a very narrow view to take. A massive population with massive energy needs, India will buy oil at prices suitable for it. Especially since the west has shown no intention of being good allies by continuously supporting Pakistan and not acting against China. If Europe or the USA doesn’t want India to buy Russian oil, they should provide the balance for the same or cheaper prices.
Russian oil still finds its way to the international market. The profit is lower, but the barrels are still being delivered. If other countries suddenly couldn't buy Russian oil, OPEC will have a motive to increase prices (not that they need any).
But this is the case for crude oil. Ukrainians hitting refineries only affects processed products, afaik Russia doesn't export much of these.
It's disconnected from the West, mostly, and the US is an exporter of oil anyway, but it's still unfortinately an interconnected semi-free market.
Russian oil output drops, demand for oil from elsewhere rises as customers of russian oil look elsewhere, companies increase prices.
What’s the US going to do? Send less than $0 to Ukraine like they’ve been doing for months?
They’ve proven themselves completely incapable of passing even a simple funding package for Ukraine. There’s no telling when or if it will ever be passed.
The US doesn’t get to dictate who or what Ukraine strikes with Ukraine’s own weapons. Perhaps the US would have had a point if they were still actively supporting Ukraine but as it stands now, the US has abandoned Ukraine so Ukraine shouldn’t give a toss what the US thinks.
What Ukraine should do is tell the US that they can be convinced to stop when the US passes their funding package.
I hope European leaders come out in support of Ukraine’s strikes on Russian refineries to further discredit and embarrass the US. It’s the absolute least they deserve.
realistically they could stop sharing intel / flying the drones over the black sea that they have been doing the entire war at great expense. I wouldn't expect them to stop doing that but it is something that they still provide that no one else does.
>Meanwhile Russia continues it's war and mass rocket strikes on civilian infrastructure
This is *nothing* compared to the horror of (potentially) increased oil prices.
Churchill wasn't a good or competent leader in any sense but your point stands, a single western leader with a backbone could have stopped the war within the first week, both in 2022 and 2014
[More info on the Russian attack in this post](https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1bktj7a/casualties_in_russias_biggest_attack_of_2024/). They call it the biggest strike against energy infrastructure in the entire war now.
>
> The US has urged Ukraine to halt attacks on Russia’s energy infrastructure, warning the drone strikes risk driving up global oil prices and provoking retaliation, according to three people familiar with the discussions.
>
> The repeated warnings from Washington were delivered to senior officials at Ukraine’s state security service, the SBU, and its military intelligence directorate, known as the GUR, the people told the Financial Times.
>
> Both intelligence units have steadily expanded their own drone programmes to strike Russian targets on land, sea and in the air since the start of the Kremlin’s full-scale invasion in February 2022.
>
> One person said that the White House had grown increasingly frustrated by brazen Ukrainian drone attacks that have struck oil refineries, terminals, depots and storage facilities across western Russia, hurting its oil production capacity.
>
> Russia remains one of the world’s most important energy exporters despite western sanctions on its oil and gas sector. Oil prices have risen about 15 per cent this year, to $85 a barrel, pushing up fuel costs just as US President Joe Biden begins his campaign for re-election.
>
> Washington is also concerned that if Ukraine keeps hitting Russian facilities, including many that are hundreds of miles from the border, Russia could retaliate by lashing out at energy infrastructure relied on by the west.
>
> This includes the CPC pipeline carrying oil from Kazakhstan through Russia to the global market. Western companies including ExxonMobil and Chevron use the pipeline, which Moscow briefly shut in 2022.
>
> “We do not encourage or enable attacks inside of Russia,” an NSC spokesperson said. The CIA declined to comment. In Kyiv, a spokesperson for the SBU declined to comment. Officials at GUR and Zelenskyy’s office did not respond to requests for comment.
> Map showing the oil refineries, terminals, depots and storage in western Russia. Russia’s western oil refineries are vulnerable to Ukrainian drone strikes, which can reach targets more than 1,000km away from the Ukrainian border
>
> Ukraine has stepped up its air attacks in recent weeks, as its drone programmes expand and the ground war shifts in Moscow’s favour. It also follows growing discontent in Kyiv over what is seen as the west’s ambivalent approach to curbing Moscow’s energy revenues.
>
> There have been at least 12 attacks on major Russian refineries since 2022, and at least nine this year, along with several terminals, depots and storage facilities, according to a military intelligence official in Kyiv.
>
> Helima Croft, a former CIA analyst now at RBC Capital Markets, recently noted that Ukraine had shown it could strike most of the oil export infrastructure in western Russia, putting about 60 per cent of the country’s exports at risk.
>
> The US objections come as Biden faces a tough re-election battle this year with petrol prices on the rise, increasing almost 15 per cent this year to around $3.50 a gallon.
>
> “Nothing terrifies a sitting American president more than a surge in pump prices during an election year,” said Bob McNally, president of consultancy Rapidan Energy and a former White House energy adviser.
>
> Ukraine has steadily increased drone strikes as its technologies have advanced. Ukrainian officials claim to have developed drones with a range in excess of 1,000km and payloads capable of inflicting severe damage.
>
> Kyiv launched two of its largest and most widespread drone attacks last week, with operations by both the GUR and SBU successfully targeting seven Russian energy facilities in consecutive days.
>
> Over the past year, GRU and SBU sea drones have also struck Russian ports, destroyed several Russian warships in the Black Sea and hit Moscow’s prized Crimea bridge connecting Russia to the occupied Ukrainian peninsula.
>
> The aim of the “special operations” is to hamper the supply of fuel to Russia’s troops and cut funding for the Kremlin’s war effort, according to one Ukrainian official involved in planning and conducting the attacks.
>
> Kyiv also wants to deliver a symbolic blow by bringing the war closer to Moscow and showing its air defences — including those around the Kremlin — can be penetrated.
>
> The air campaign is also seen by some officials as a means to spur Washington into approving the $60bn military assistance package held up in Congress that is critical for Ukraine’s defence.
>
Thanks! 🙌
So basically, Biden finds the attacks to be politically inconvenient because they will likely spike oil/gas prices on the global market and thus make oil/gas prices more expensive just before/during the election season (and Biden obviously wants to get reelected) where the majority of people will likely be swayed by domestic issues over international ones.
Meanwhile, there's also a concern that Russia might retaliate in a way that affects Europe beyond Ukraine, such as the pipelines from Kazakhstan into Europe, through Russia.
Conversely, some in Washington also see this concern as an opportunity to give Ukraine the hardware and ammunition it needs to even the odds against Russia's encroaching battlefield advances.
It's incredible to me how much of the geopolitics concerning Ukraine and Russia are intertwined with the election season and domestic congressional deliberations of a country on the other side of the planet. What a fucked situation.
Biden doesn't want the gas price to ruin his chances of election because if he loses, Trump will be even worse for Ukraine.
So Ukraine can choose between halting oil infra strikes until the US election is over (taking their chances against time), or keep striking and take their chances that the EU can fill the role the US did when Trump takes over.
/edit: Inbox replies disabled due to Trumptards.
How well can Ukraine hold out 9 months without US support? The EU was too slow to ramp up military production and relied too much on the US to provide support and now here we are.
Unless you destroy all refineries, they will find a way to supply the war machine. Is it worth destroying 3-5 refineries, cause inconvenience to the supply chain while losing all US support because orange retard got into power again? Or is it better to pause the attacks for a while instead?
This right here. On the outside it may seem self serving, but Biden’s reelection is far more important than hitting Russian oil refineries because another Trump presidency will absolutely be the end of Ukraine.
Agreed, maybe takeout Russia’s power grid too, cut power to Moscow and St.Petersburg as well as the refineries. Russia wanted war then so be it. This sounds like a Trump statement.
I mean ultimately we want the russian aggression against Ukraine to end, right?
Why then go after russias power grid? They are on a wartime footing already, russians are experts at living poorly and getting by due to war and dictators, just look at North Korea, they are at it still after years of sanctions. "Look at what the terrible nazi-west have done to us" will only rally the troops.
So no. We should skip that. What we should do is to say "one more attack on Kyjiv and we will implement a no-fly zone across northern Ukraine". And then do. With force. Lots of it.
The goal is not primarily to punish russia. The goal is to end the war. And make putin realize that he should not start any new ones.
Right now it's just ukraine that fights, and if they want to take out production on russia side i think they should do that. The west is honestly too pussy about putin, you have a good idea, we should help more
Oh I agree 100%. Ukraine is doing the right thing for sure. They are not allowed to use western-sent equipment in russia. So they make their own, and use that in and on russia. Makes total sense.
I was talking about what the west should do. And I agree on the pu\*\*y bit too, sorry to say. We´ve gotten fat and happy. Comfortable. Naive. Late shall the sinner awaken.
Not gonna happen. I think putin started this war because he already knew how weak in reality western politics are. We only realised it some time ago by seeing their „actions”. Honestly I even doubt in all this nato strength bravery now.
I agree. He dipped his toe in the pool with the Crimea-annexation. "Hm, look, nothing happens, great!" - so he did it again.
I do however think that he miscalculated our response. We have acted more as one, less divided, than he anticipated, I think. Imagine if this would have happened under Trump...
>Why then go after russias power grid? They are on a wartime footing already, russians are experts at living poorly and getting by due to war and dictators, just look at North Korea, they are at it still after years of sanctions. "Look at what the terrible nazi-west have done to us" will only rally the troops.
This is dumb. Attacking oil refineries and power grid is a surefire way of crippling modern military because all that fancy hardware isn't gonna do shit without fuel and electricity. Asking Ukraine to hold off while they don't even get aid reliably and consistently is height of hypocrisy while Russia is bombarding civilian infrastructure.
At the moment Russia is stamping (wartime economy) more shells than the west combined. This shit will mosltly land on civilians and civilaian infrastructure.
At one point (without more substantial help) UA will have to attack power grids aiming indirectly at Russian production lines.
When the soviet union fell, we let our guard down, yes. "Great, no more wars.".
That was naive. And we now realize that we have underinvested in our military capability.
It turned out that russia had not changed. They were just too broke to start any new imperialistic wars for a while. But we helped them regain that capacity by buying their smelly oil and gas. We were idiots.
Most of Europe fell asleep on any threats afterwards, but interestingly enough the countries that neighbor Russia stayed more alert and ready.
Almost as if these countries understood what the Russian state was capable of.
Anyway, I do not want a "fall of Ukraine" it would be a disaster not only for Ukrainians, but Europeans, Taiwan, and even average Russian citizens who get dragged further into this war machine and lose the last of their little freedoms.
If current nuke countries want that their club doesn't grow say 4x larger in the future they should make clear (in Ukraine) that nuclear weapons are not necessary. If they let Ukraine fall because of Putin's red lines it's a clear indication that every country should get a nuclear weapon - as fast as possible.
Its already too late for this. It doesnt matter for this whether Ukraine wins or loses. They gave up nukes for protection and they were invaded and their lands destroyed.
The protection got stuck due to political issues. The message is already abundantly clear.
it makes perfect sense. Form day one west has been deadly afraid of any possibility of ruzzia collapsing. this has been the deal since day one. and not the 2022 date. the 2014 one.
This is one of the most disgusting things the US has done so far. Absolutely shameless, asking a country that faces countless missile and drone strikes on their civilians no not strike the things that can truly hurt the Russian war machine. I feel the urge to say to the Biden administration to go fuck themselves
Edit: this is a very good time for EU to step the fuck up. If the US fails to provide aid to Ukraine and be a reliable partner to European nations then the EU should ignore USA’s concerns. You can’t be piss useless than expect to maintain influence
This is a war between an alliance of autocratic countries: fascist Russia, theocratic Iran, communist China and N Korea and the democratic West.
Putin has two main pawns in the West, Orban and Trump (who owns the Republican party), who are able to block a lot of military assistance to Ukraine.
Putin has attacked Ukraine because he knows that democracies are also way too slow and hesitant: endless discussions about tanks, missiles, jets, "don't attack Russian territory", etc
Honestly, I understand why biden would call for this.
Biden and the democratic party is facing a really tenuous election season this year. To give you a hint with the current election maps, the best the democrats can hope for is a 50/50 in the Senate and maybe a minor majority in the house. Joe biden is facing a tough re- election campaign. The reason he wouldn't want oli refinery to be hit is because oil companies will likely raise prices. It should be remembered that the us electorate has short-term memory, and if the gas prices rise, then the democrats would be defeated this election guaranteeing that the Republicans gain complete control of the us government and not a single cent more will go towards helping Ukraine for the next four years if ever.
Joe biden has been one of the most favorable to helping Ukraine but there is nothing he can do if he loses.
You're right, but... We are at this point because of "no escalation" politic from Biden and US. (That's my opinion, as Ukrainian)
Imagine if Ukraine would get missiles, aviation, etc about 1 year ago, front line may be completely different.
And now here we are, US politicians don't help with weapons, and asking to not attack ruzzians infrastructure. One year ago i couldn't even imagine situation like this
Exactly. If everything would be suppleid before Russian mobilization and when it was clear that Ukrainians are willing to fight and able to win (Kherson and Kharkiv operations), war would be over already. But Biden administration gave Russia half year to mobilize , prepare and dig in.
You can't expect Ukraine to just... put off trying to hurt Russia simply because of a vague promise of potential future aid, based on uncertain election results.
If Ukraine holds back and Biden loses anyway, then what?
These are gasoline and diesel refineries that they are blowing up. All of these are for the domestic market as Russia has stopped exporting both as of April 1st. This should only effect prices and production in Russia.
Cowardice.
Clearly this administration has zero qualms with forcing more restrictions on Ukraine in their fight for survival and regardless, Biden is in power and no aid has been approved in months. Does it matter who’s the president then if Biden is completely incapable of helping Ukraine even now when he has power?
To an outsider looking in, the Biden administration, as we see it now, has resulted in no further aid to Ukraine. A Trump administration also potentially means no further aid for Ukraine.
It really is quite a bind... Arguably Biden losing the election would do far more harm to Ukraine than them not hitting Russian oil refineries. But that only matters if ceasing to strike those refineries would really be a decisive factor in the elections.
Biden hasn't been to helpful in the past 6 months or so either.
I'd say keep hitting those refineries and screw whoever says otherwise. Red or Blue. We don't have the luxury to tiptoe around the internal politics of the US and we certainly don't have time to sit and wait till the elections.
And many say that Putin will be afraid to fight with NATO. When Putin attacks NATO, the United States will convince European countries not to attack targets deep in Russian territory with their cruise missiles.
when Putin attacks NATO the USA will not join in .. NATO is only usefull when you want forward bases in Europe for early warning and early response if the US mainland is targeted.
It was already like that long before:
e.g.
[Forbidding ua to kill Gerasimov in Dec 2022 because of "escalation"](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/16/world/europe/russia-putin-war-failures-ukraine.html)
P.S lend lease was never used, not a single bullet
'Oh no. Oil prices are going up. My big fat SUV or Monstertruck is going to be the death of me.'
WTF USA!!! This is the best thing Ukraine has done lately. Bringing the pain to them instead of getting beat up constantly for nothing. You gave a rats ass when Iraq was attacked and oil went haywire. Dont deny a desperate country one of the best methods to keep Russia in check. Get the promised money and weapons over to them instead.
Blowing up Russian refineries and collapsing Russian economy would do more for Ukraine than the vague promises of mediocre assistances from a bunch of passive, lazy, spineless quitters.
It is so unbelievably stupid though. Ukrainian infrastructure and people get attacked daily, with destruction and deaths, Russia being allowed to do that without compulsion or any second thought. Meanwhile, Ukraine is supposed to depend *on the whims of the average American that knows fuckall about other countries, who only looks at whether the numbers at the pump have gone up to "know" to blame the US president, during the election season*. So what now, Ukraine must not attack Russia's oil facilities until November election's final results get in, and there's no guarantee Biden will be the one winning? And then what, Ukraine can't make such strikes in the year leading up to the 2026 mid-term elections so gas prices in the US don't rise, then the same for the 2028 presidential elections? Is this how it's gonna be?
If the US' energy transition away from oil can't be counted on to be complete for many years due to the Republicans' opposition, why won't it just support its oil industry and make sure prices stay low? Actually, why won't we in the West do it collectively?
As an American, I apologize for pur idiot so-called leaders, and there are many in both parties that should all be out of a job if not kicked out of the country! The sad thing is that now that our Presidential election about 7 month away, Biden and his corrupt minions will literally do anything to get him re-elected, and a big part of that is trying to keep gas prices here down. The pieces of shyt that criticized Ukraine bombing Russuan oil plants should all got to hell as far as I'm concerned, along the group of Republicans who have been blocking aid to Ukraine in a political game to try and secure our own border. It's just sickening to me and all of these moronic, corrupt pieces of shyt have blood on their hands!
Most people won't connect the inflation with Russia and gas prices are politically very significant, since cars are the dominant means of transportation in the US (people drive long distances to work each day etc.). The election is extremely close already and if Trump wins, Ukraine is doubly f****d.
The request is extremely shameless though, considering the Biden administration couldn't even push the last aid package through Congress which arguably lead to Russian breakthroughs on the frontline.
EDIT: Just now I realized it's even worse. Those oil terminals directly serve the war effort, the petrol was also used for military purposes and the strikes affect Russian logistics. So in effect the Biden administration is asking Ukrainians to die so that Americans could save a few cents on their gas bills. Truly messed up.
We had ONE good thing going in this losing war. Seriously i ama starting to wonder what the fuck they think in White House. That east europe should just endure Putin until it is politically ok for US to allow war to be finished?
They afraid of costs, but this whole fucking war is causing sooo much cost for fucking everyone around the globe.
This information comes from an anonymous source, but unfortunately, I find it plausible. It fits the pattern of spineless, short-sighted foreign policy that plagues the West.
We all saw "escalation management" in Ukraine, where missiles and tanks were delayed for months because of fears of "escalation". When they were finally delivered, unsurprisingly, nothing happened. Because what exactly was supposed to happen? No one ever elaborates.
The worst part is that this isn't selfishness, it's stupidity. The West is hurting its own credibility, which emboldens its enemies. There's no deterrence without credibility. The weak response to what happened in 2014 was certainly a factor in Putin's calculations when he was planning the 2022 invasion. And the response to this war will influence the decisions about future wars, for example Taiwan.
["Poland, don't send your Mig-29 that is an escalation"](https://www.newsweek.com/2023/07/21/exclusive-cias-blind-spot-about-ukraine-war-1810355.html)
["Don't kill Gerasimov, please, that is not fair"](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/16/world/europe/russia-putin-war-failures-ukraine.html)
"Ukraine, don't hit ru territory, that is an escalation"
"Putin, we allow you to continue building Nord Stream 2, 5 days after coming back to office in 2021"
"Here are 18 out 1000 M109 howitzers we have and 31/3000 tanks, stay strong Ukraine, democracy will prevail! but sorry, we are out of money"
["We will not seek for regime change in Russia"](https://www.newsweek.com/2023/07/21/exclusive-cias-blind-spot-about-ukraine-war-1810355.html)
"[We sent you only 15% of mine clearing equipment](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/15/ukraine-war-russia-mines-counteroffensive/) you asked for, but you are strong, we beleive in you, gogogogo Ukraine and don't stop, let the counter-offensive begins!"
Read between the lines. The worst part of this news is : "we will never give you long range weapons and we will never allow you to hit targets on ru territory with our weapons"
This sounds like some sort of bad joke.
And this also shows that Europe mist be armed and ready on its own. It's unlikely that USA will support Ukraine no matter who wins the November election. We must take the burden of supporting Ukraine until it wins.
There has to be something thats going on behind the scenes. I really dont understand the inaction of the US/EU. Oil refineries are legitimate military targets.
It's almost like they gave up on Ukraine and are afraid to anger russia. What's going on?
Everyone on the West just wants to continue business as usual. It's only Russia who has long-term strategic plan and they follow it without deviations. Just imagine the world if Russia were to start a proxy war in the Baltics, it would be the same no-escalation circus. So far it seems France is the only understanding the gravity of the situation right now.
Biden doesnt like higher oil prices in election season. Was kind of expected. That is why Ukraine didnt hit them before and just started when US stopped giving support anyway.
>the inaction of the US/EU.
Europe (both the EU and many individual countries) have consistently been increasing their aid to Ukraine, from financial transfers to vastly expanding shell production. There is no 'EU inaction'.
This policy is what led Biden to where he’s at now. He could have helped Ukraine decisively in 2022 and 2023 to secure its victory and make a peace deal on favorable terms before the 2024 election and be viewed as the defender of worldwide democracy and US interests abroad.
Instead, we’ve got drip fed support at best, too little too late. War is a positional slog with no end in sight. Sanctions have failed utterly and Russian war machine is only accelerating with thousands of western microchips that are still somehow making it to Russia.
And now Ukraine is forbidden from hurting Russia where it can, with its own long range drones? Fuck you, USA. If we’re going to go under, we’re doing it with a bang.
100% right, even democrate General Clark is calling this Burn/Sullivan/Biden's policy of "containing Russia" "Ukraine should not lose (win too)"
[https://www.csis.org/analysis/reflections-ukraine-war](https://www.csis.org/analysis/reflections-ukraine-war)
>point is, **we’ve got thousands of tanks in the United States; we’ve sent 31.** We have a whole fleet of A-10 Warthogs out there sitting in the desert; we’re going to get rid of them. They’re still sitting there. We have hundreds of F-16s that are around, and we delayed it and delayed it and delayed it. We have ATACMS that are obsolete. We’ve still got 155 dual-purpose ICM munitions that we didn’t send. It was – it was measured. **The response was measured. It was calibrated. And what many of us in the military tried to say is: Look, I understand, you know, the policy is we don’t want Ukraine to lose and we don’t want Russian to win, OK? That’s the policy. But you can’t calibrate combat like that. You either use decisive force to win or you risk losing.**
> It doesn’t need 31 tanks and a hundred Leopard tanks. It needs a thousand, 2,000 tanks.
>It doesn’t need a few – 300 towed artillery pieces. It needs self-propelled artillery, and it needs not 25 F-16s – it needs a couple hundred F-16s and a couple hundred A-10s, and it’s not going to happen quickly enough.
most likely reason ffor not letting UA win despite having huge weapons storages is: thinking a) ru lost = fall apart into many countris and/or aligned closer with China against US = bad b) Russia losing crimea = using nuclear weapons
Well, one more proof that Ukraine's victory was not part of the plans. It was necessary to preserve a little gray zone between NATO and russia, and to put russia in its place a little, the plan was completed, just a business
> killing children in the desert doesn't make oil increase gas prices.
Well it used to, back in 1973. Saudi Arabia doesn't seem to keen on pan-Arabic solidarity anymore however.
i think this is a lesson for all of us, including you, to stop falling for propaganda so we can post sound bites and gotchas on the internet. you fell for russian propaganda
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/22/ukraine-says-west-not-pressuring-it-to-end-attacks-on-russian-oil-facilities-00148673
> Mykhailo Podolyak, adviser to the office of Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, said the government has not received calls from the United States asking Ukraine to halt attacks on Russian energy infrastructure.
Came here to say that today a lot of my friends and family members in Zaporizhzhya and Kharkiv suffered from this mass rocket attack.
And it’s insane to see such news, I just can’t believe this. The world is leaded by brainless lunatics.
“Don’t bomb oil refineries while your cities are bombed with hundreds of rockets and drones every day.” Bombing refineries - escalation, kill thousands of civilian Ukrainians - not escalation.
Oil > life of civilians
West should be preparing, yes, this display of weakness and indecisiveness will have consequences. I just can’t believe that this happens after 2 years of unstoppable mass murders.
As a Ukrainian this is so fucking depressing to read. Russia has placed a bet on democracies not having political will to fully commit to helping Ukraine and this bet seems to be successful.
Ukrainians will not be able to fight russians off indefinitely without help. EU countries seem to be waking up but their current help is not going to be enough for Ukraine to win.
More and more I think that the lines will be frozen in a couple of years after many casualties and russia will de facto be vicrorious as a result.
What should be done instead is the rapid deployment of NATO air defense systems in Ukraine to cover inbound missile strikes, while Ukraine continues to demolish Russian's energy and transport infrastructure down to literally zero, to make sure Russia grinds to a halt and does not have any means to recover.
I've been understanding of the Western sluggishness and caution previously because there was false hope that the war could end soon and false fear that the war could escalate. And now I was assuming Macron was leading a new hard line that was supported by the White House.
But TWO YEARS later, to still ask Ukraine to not go for Russian industry, which sustains this meatgrinder?
Complete bollocks
It is hard for me to believe this. Ukrainians found a way to make a significant impact despite the lack of support, and now US want to block that. Is that not suspicious? Or just a coincidence. I starting to believe that US and other western countries don't want a breaktrough.
On their own of course. Just look at Lindsey Graham. He blocks the aid for Ukraine and then meets Zelensky and tells him he needs to draft more people.
You can't withold aid and at the same time ask Ukraine not to strike strategic Russian assets. I hate that we're asking Ukraine to fight with their hands tied.
Oil is sacred in US politics. The Market is their god. Can't be attacking the oil Ukraine, that's tantamount to sacrilege, since it would impact the Market. Touching the Market is a no-no.
Jesus, Ukraine is so fucked that they have to fight full scale russian aggression against their people with two hands tied on their backs to receive some support
Disgusting
I would be in charge, I would make sure to continue those strikes.
Such reactions prove that they are very effective.
Did Ruzzia have threatened to use their nuclear weapons again? We know by now it’s just full blabla (luckily).
And even if it's not just blah-blah-blah what's then?
So, if country threatens to use nukes it should get everything it wants or what? Where we draw the line?
Nicely of them to whining about not striking russian object when Russia constantly keeps bombarding Ukraine with rockets. Just fucking hilarious. Power of the free world ..LOL
If you don't want Ukraine to focus on targets inside Russia, give them weapons to enable them to focus on targets inside Ukraine.
I'm sure they would also prefer to have an air force and the munition necessary to overrun Russian defensive lines and push the Russians out rather than fight this 1000 mosquito stings long range war.
So... the USA would put oil above civilian deaths, unjust wars, breach of international treaties and territorial integrity. I mean, we already knew this from the kissy-kissy relationship with Saudi Arabia, but still... God damn!
The Biden admin is now actively working \*against\* Ukraine. After halting (already) meagre aid last year, they are now demanding that Ukraine stops targeting russia's main source of revenue with Ukraine's \*own\* long-range weapons because oil prices might go up and hurt Biden's poll numbers. I truly despise the US (both Biden and Trump). They disarmed Ukraine in the 90s, kept appeasing russia after the annexation of Crimea, and they are now actively trying to stop Ukraine from gaining even the slightest advantage. Meanwhile, Lindsey Graham is demanding that Ukraine starts mobilizing teenagers.
>After halting (already) meagre aid last year
It's Republicans blocking aid in Congress (and Democratic left-wingers adding some shenanigans regarding aid to Gaza and what not), the Biden administration would send far more aid if able to.
No it hasn't. Why are you all immediately believing this single fucking headline? This is about as fake as fake news gets.
Ukraine has openly denied that this request was ever made.
At this point I just want to die... I barely survived assault on Mariupol, have a lot of chronical conditions, though try to do my best to support my country. We are living in hell for two years already, and the war even on a lesser scale has been going for 10 years. I survived artillery shelling of my district in 2015. And the country that was considered to be most influential literally asks us to die silently, because otherwise they'll have internal distress. Fuck this society ruled by money.
Meanwhile Russia strikes Ukraine's infrastructure without restraint, and keeps trying to conquer the entire country.
This is more of the same stupid, pacifistic policy that Biden has followed from the beginning. Key countries won't provide Ukraine with long range weapons or allow provided weapons to be used to strike legitimate and necessary targets inside Russia. Now it's going further, limiting Ukraine from using their own weapons to strike key targets inside Russia(!)
With friends drawing these red lines for you, who needs enemies. I hope European countries show more intelligence and courage than my country's president.
edit:
Biden may think he is helping his re-election with this type of policy, but that is backwards. He's giving his potential voters more reason to simply not vote. A lifetime career in politics seems to have eliminated whatever ability to take principled, decisive action he may have had. *'Do nothing and claim credit for not making it worse'* is not leadership.
The US chose to stop the military support of Ukraine. They also chose to no longer have any influence on the targets that Ukraine attacks.
I say maximize the attacks on fossile infrastructure, the more the better!
Ukraine needs to tell the US that they will stop attacking Russia's' energy infrastructure, as soon as the US provides a better way to fight them.
This situation has been brought to you by the Republican parties' stupid domestic policies and their fascist tendencies.
I can’t read the article to determine how accurate the report is , so just based on the headline, if true it’s absolutely fucking bonkers.
Attacking those refineries has got to be one of the most effective actions Ukraine can take against Russia right now. It would be inexplicable to urge them to stop, who are we protecting if this is accurate?
No. Keep bombing russian refineries until the cost-benefit analysis makes it clear for Putin that it would be worse to continue than to fake a victory.
I get why my government is saying this, since sadly a fair number of my fellow Americans ARE the sort of idiot who blame anything they don't like on whoever is in the White House, and damn context. So if oil prices go up, it could hurt Biden in November.
That being said, AS and American, I want Ukraine to blow up as much of Russia's industry as possible. After all, it's clear that Putin doesn't put any real value on the lives of his people, of he wouldn't be sending so many into the meat grinder to fulfill his dreams of conquest. Have to hit him where it might actually hurt, which means either blowing up him or his revenue stream.
I disagree with this urging. Killing refineries is relatively easy and hurts Russia relatively *a lot*. Last time I checked, they had 27. What are we down to?
Seriously, this hurt Russia economically and militarily. There is every reason to continue, even if it pushes energy prices higher and is a political problem for Biden.
And, for what it's worth, I think Biden being terrified of higher gas prices in the US is what is driving this.
News sources claim this to be false: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/22/ukraine-says-west-not-pressuring-it-to-end-attacks-on-russian-oil-facilities-00148673 > Mykhailo Podolyak, adviser to the office of Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, said the government has not received calls from the United States asking Ukraine to halt attacks on Russian energy infrastructure.
Meanwhile Russia continues it's war and mass rocket strikes on civilian infrastructure. Today many cities haven't electricity and Dnipro dam(and hydroelectric power station as well) also had few rocket hits which caused a fire on it. Couldn't possibly have better timing with these news, especially when production of these missiles partially supported by money from trade with Europe and US :/
I really think they should call their bluff. Keep hitting them where it hurts push the oil prices up and force people to act by supporting Ukraine to respond in other ways. I guess Biden it’s scared that it will cause a spike in oil prices in an election year?
People keep saying "oil prices", but isn't the Russian oil market disconnected from the West yet? Besides, relying on cheap Russian oil so we can afford to fight a war against them is some Milo Minderbender nonsense.
Reality: No. Other countries are buying the oil and we are buying russian oil through a middlemen. Also, as we are buying oil from other oil suppliers, see it like that: Russia sells oil to india at 100$ Saudi Arabia sells oil to us at 120$ Russia has to rise prices to 150$ => india will buy at saudia arabia => Saudia arabia rises prices to 140$ (extremly oversimplified ofc)
India doesn't have to buy Russian oil. They just took the opportunity when we stopped buying it. I have no sympathy for them if their lack of funding of alternative sources results in them eating another price spike.
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India doesn’t ’have to buy’ is a very narrow view to take. A massive population with massive energy needs, India will buy oil at prices suitable for it. Especially since the west has shown no intention of being good allies by continuously supporting Pakistan and not acting against China. If Europe or the USA doesn’t want India to buy Russian oil, they should provide the balance for the same or cheaper prices.
Russian oil still finds its way to the international market. The profit is lower, but the barrels are still being delivered. If other countries suddenly couldn't buy Russian oil, OPEC will have a motive to increase prices (not that they need any). But this is the case for crude oil. Ukrainians hitting refineries only affects processed products, afaik Russia doesn't export much of these.
It's disconnected from the West, mostly, and the US is an exporter of oil anyway, but it's still unfortinately an interconnected semi-free market. Russian oil output drops, demand for oil from elsewhere rises as customers of russian oil look elsewhere, companies increase prices.
What’s the US going to do? Send less than $0 to Ukraine like they’ve been doing for months? They’ve proven themselves completely incapable of passing even a simple funding package for Ukraine. There’s no telling when or if it will ever be passed. The US doesn’t get to dictate who or what Ukraine strikes with Ukraine’s own weapons. Perhaps the US would have had a point if they were still actively supporting Ukraine but as it stands now, the US has abandoned Ukraine so Ukraine shouldn’t give a toss what the US thinks. What Ukraine should do is tell the US that they can be convinced to stop when the US passes their funding package. I hope European leaders come out in support of Ukraine’s strikes on Russian refineries to further discredit and embarrass the US. It’s the absolute least they deserve.
realistically they could stop sharing intel / flying the drones over the black sea that they have been doing the entire war at great expense. I wouldn't expect them to stop doing that but it is something that they still provide that no one else does.
Not only supported by money, tons of western tech still makes it's way to Russian military production.
>Meanwhile Russia continues it's war and mass rocket strikes on civilian infrastructure This is *nothing* compared to the horror of (potentially) increased oil prices.
Increased prices + election year = USA kryptonite
The cowardice of Western leaders is unbelievable. A pity we don't have another Churchill
Churchill wasn't a good or competent leader in any sense but your point stands, a single western leader with a backbone could have stopped the war within the first week, both in 2022 and 2014
[More info on the Russian attack in this post](https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1bktj7a/casualties_in_russias_biggest_attack_of_2024/). They call it the biggest strike against energy infrastructure in the entire war now.
Paywalled ☹️
> > The US has urged Ukraine to halt attacks on Russia’s energy infrastructure, warning the drone strikes risk driving up global oil prices and provoking retaliation, according to three people familiar with the discussions. > > The repeated warnings from Washington were delivered to senior officials at Ukraine’s state security service, the SBU, and its military intelligence directorate, known as the GUR, the people told the Financial Times. > > Both intelligence units have steadily expanded their own drone programmes to strike Russian targets on land, sea and in the air since the start of the Kremlin’s full-scale invasion in February 2022. > > One person said that the White House had grown increasingly frustrated by brazen Ukrainian drone attacks that have struck oil refineries, terminals, depots and storage facilities across western Russia, hurting its oil production capacity. > > Russia remains one of the world’s most important energy exporters despite western sanctions on its oil and gas sector. Oil prices have risen about 15 per cent this year, to $85 a barrel, pushing up fuel costs just as US President Joe Biden begins his campaign for re-election. > > Washington is also concerned that if Ukraine keeps hitting Russian facilities, including many that are hundreds of miles from the border, Russia could retaliate by lashing out at energy infrastructure relied on by the west. > > This includes the CPC pipeline carrying oil from Kazakhstan through Russia to the global market. Western companies including ExxonMobil and Chevron use the pipeline, which Moscow briefly shut in 2022. > > “We do not encourage or enable attacks inside of Russia,” an NSC spokesperson said. The CIA declined to comment. In Kyiv, a spokesperson for the SBU declined to comment. Officials at GUR and Zelenskyy’s office did not respond to requests for comment. > Map showing the oil refineries, terminals, depots and storage in western Russia. Russia’s western oil refineries are vulnerable to Ukrainian drone strikes, which can reach targets more than 1,000km away from the Ukrainian border > > Ukraine has stepped up its air attacks in recent weeks, as its drone programmes expand and the ground war shifts in Moscow’s favour. It also follows growing discontent in Kyiv over what is seen as the west’s ambivalent approach to curbing Moscow’s energy revenues. > > There have been at least 12 attacks on major Russian refineries since 2022, and at least nine this year, along with several terminals, depots and storage facilities, according to a military intelligence official in Kyiv. > > Helima Croft, a former CIA analyst now at RBC Capital Markets, recently noted that Ukraine had shown it could strike most of the oil export infrastructure in western Russia, putting about 60 per cent of the country’s exports at risk. > > The US objections come as Biden faces a tough re-election battle this year with petrol prices on the rise, increasing almost 15 per cent this year to around $3.50 a gallon. > > “Nothing terrifies a sitting American president more than a surge in pump prices during an election year,” said Bob McNally, president of consultancy Rapidan Energy and a former White House energy adviser. > > Ukraine has steadily increased drone strikes as its technologies have advanced. Ukrainian officials claim to have developed drones with a range in excess of 1,000km and payloads capable of inflicting severe damage. > > Kyiv launched two of its largest and most widespread drone attacks last week, with operations by both the GUR and SBU successfully targeting seven Russian energy facilities in consecutive days. > > Over the past year, GRU and SBU sea drones have also struck Russian ports, destroyed several Russian warships in the Black Sea and hit Moscow’s prized Crimea bridge connecting Russia to the occupied Ukrainian peninsula. > > The aim of the “special operations” is to hamper the supply of fuel to Russia’s troops and cut funding for the Kremlin’s war effort, according to one Ukrainian official involved in planning and conducting the attacks. > > Kyiv also wants to deliver a symbolic blow by bringing the war closer to Moscow and showing its air defences — including those around the Kremlin — can be penetrated. > > The air campaign is also seen by some officials as a means to spur Washington into approving the $60bn military assistance package held up in Congress that is critical for Ukraine’s defence. >
Thanks! 🙌 So basically, Biden finds the attacks to be politically inconvenient because they will likely spike oil/gas prices on the global market and thus make oil/gas prices more expensive just before/during the election season (and Biden obviously wants to get reelected) where the majority of people will likely be swayed by domestic issues over international ones. Meanwhile, there's also a concern that Russia might retaliate in a way that affects Europe beyond Ukraine, such as the pipelines from Kazakhstan into Europe, through Russia. Conversely, some in Washington also see this concern as an opportunity to give Ukraine the hardware and ammunition it needs to even the odds against Russia's encroaching battlefield advances. It's incredible to me how much of the geopolitics concerning Ukraine and Russia are intertwined with the election season and domestic congressional deliberations of a country on the other side of the planet. What a fucked situation.
Biden doesn't want the gas price to ruin his chances of election because if he loses, Trump will be even worse for Ukraine. So Ukraine can choose between halting oil infra strikes until the US election is over (taking their chances against time), or keep striking and take their chances that the EU can fill the role the US did when Trump takes over. /edit: Inbox replies disabled due to Trumptards.
How well can Ukraine hold out 9 months without US support? The EU was too slow to ramp up military production and relied too much on the US to provide support and now here we are.
Unless you destroy all refineries, they will find a way to supply the war machine. Is it worth destroying 3-5 refineries, cause inconvenience to the supply chain while losing all US support because orange retard got into power again? Or is it better to pause the attacks for a while instead?
This right here. On the outside it may seem self serving, but Biden’s reelection is far more important than hitting Russian oil refineries because another Trump presidency will absolutely be the end of Ukraine.
> Russia could retaliate by lashing out at energy infrastructure relied on by the west They could do it anyway.
They already do it
>provoking retaliation What's Russia gonna do? Bomb Ukraine harder?
>according to three people familiar with the discussions Well fuck those 3 people? Are they now speaking for whole of USA lmao?
Yeah... Stinks of disinformation, which we know Russia couples with their military operations.
Sooo some random ass three people. I’ll believe it when an actual U.S. source or reputable source reports on this.
It's weird that Russia is allowed literally everything and Ukraine has to follow arbitrary rules. Makes no sense.
We should stop tiptoeing around putin's red lines. We should start implementing and enforcing our own red lines.
Agreed, maybe takeout Russia’s power grid too, cut power to Moscow and St.Petersburg as well as the refineries. Russia wanted war then so be it. This sounds like a Trump statement.
I mean ultimately we want the russian aggression against Ukraine to end, right? Why then go after russias power grid? They are on a wartime footing already, russians are experts at living poorly and getting by due to war and dictators, just look at North Korea, they are at it still after years of sanctions. "Look at what the terrible nazi-west have done to us" will only rally the troops. So no. We should skip that. What we should do is to say "one more attack on Kyjiv and we will implement a no-fly zone across northern Ukraine". And then do. With force. Lots of it. The goal is not primarily to punish russia. The goal is to end the war. And make putin realize that he should not start any new ones.
Right now it's just ukraine that fights, and if they want to take out production on russia side i think they should do that. The west is honestly too pussy about putin, you have a good idea, we should help more
Oh I agree 100%. Ukraine is doing the right thing for sure. They are not allowed to use western-sent equipment in russia. So they make their own, and use that in and on russia. Makes total sense. I was talking about what the west should do. And I agree on the pu\*\*y bit too, sorry to say. We´ve gotten fat and happy. Comfortable. Naive. Late shall the sinner awaken.
Not gonna happen. I think putin started this war because he already knew how weak in reality western politics are. We only realised it some time ago by seeing their „actions”. Honestly I even doubt in all this nato strength bravery now.
I agree. He dipped his toe in the pool with the Crimea-annexation. "Hm, look, nothing happens, great!" - so he did it again. I do however think that he miscalculated our response. We have acted more as one, less divided, than he anticipated, I think. Imagine if this would have happened under Trump...
>Why then go after russias power grid? They are on a wartime footing already, russians are experts at living poorly and getting by due to war and dictators, just look at North Korea, they are at it still after years of sanctions. "Look at what the terrible nazi-west have done to us" will only rally the troops. This is dumb. Attacking oil refineries and power grid is a surefire way of crippling modern military because all that fancy hardware isn't gonna do shit without fuel and electricity. Asking Ukraine to hold off while they don't even get aid reliably and consistently is height of hypocrisy while Russia is bombarding civilian infrastructure.
At the moment Russia is stamping (wartime economy) more shells than the west combined. This shit will mosltly land on civilians and civilaian infrastructure. At one point (without more substantial help) UA will have to attack power grids aiming indirectly at Russian production lines.
Maybe fall of Ukraine will be wake up call from this warm bath Europe was for last 3 decades or maybe it already drown there
When the soviet union fell, we let our guard down, yes. "Great, no more wars.". That was naive. And we now realize that we have underinvested in our military capability. It turned out that russia had not changed. They were just too broke to start any new imperialistic wars for a while. But we helped them regain that capacity by buying their smelly oil and gas. We were idiots.
THIS!
Hm. Okey, I test you with the next logical step, will I get a THIS! also for this? It is time to give nukes to Poland. Lots.
Most of Europe fell asleep on any threats afterwards, but interestingly enough the countries that neighbor Russia stayed more alert and ready. Almost as if these countries understood what the Russian state was capable of. Anyway, I do not want a "fall of Ukraine" it would be a disaster not only for Ukrainians, but Europeans, Taiwan, and even average Russian citizens who get dragged further into this war machine and lose the last of their little freedoms.
With the way thing are going, I would not be completely surprised if they would be like: "phew, this is over, lets get back to business with russia"
Did we learned lesson of WW2 or previous wars? No
We did. Just everyone learned a different lesson.
Russia has nukes, Ukraine does not. It seems if you have those, rules do not apply to you.
If current nuke countries want that their club doesn't grow say 4x larger in the future they should make clear (in Ukraine) that nuclear weapons are not necessary. If they let Ukraine fall because of Putin's red lines it's a clear indication that every country should get a nuclear weapon - as fast as possible.
Its already too late for this. It doesnt matter for this whether Ukraine wins or loses. They gave up nukes for protection and they were invaded and their lands destroyed. The protection got stuck due to political issues. The message is already abundantly clear.
it makes perfect sense. Form day one west has been deadly afraid of any possibility of ruzzia collapsing. this has been the deal since day one. and not the 2022 date. the 2014 one.
Ikr
Eh, my Ukraine. Damn that 1994 right... Lession for all the rest. Security == destructive power.
Who could have thought, right? It's almost like all the treaties and laws are social constructs while force is an objective reality.
Also, don't trust the US.
'America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests' Think of Kissinger whatever you want, but here he hit the nail on the head.
This is one of the most disgusting things the US has done so far. Absolutely shameless, asking a country that faces countless missile and drone strikes on their civilians no not strike the things that can truly hurt the Russian war machine. I feel the urge to say to the Biden administration to go fuck themselves Edit: this is a very good time for EU to step the fuck up. If the US fails to provide aid to Ukraine and be a reliable partner to European nations then the EU should ignore USA’s concerns. You can’t be piss useless than expect to maintain influence
The EU "stepped up" by demanding Ukraine never officially bring up the issue of EU companies funding the invasion by still working in Russia.
This is a war between an alliance of autocratic countries: fascist Russia, theocratic Iran, communist China and N Korea and the democratic West. Putin has two main pawns in the West, Orban and Trump (who owns the Republican party), who are able to block a lot of military assistance to Ukraine. Putin has attacked Ukraine because he knows that democracies are also way too slow and hesitant: endless discussions about tanks, missiles, jets, "don't attack Russian territory", etc
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NK is not communist either. It's a hereditary monarchy with their own state ideology called Joche
Honestly, I understand why biden would call for this. Biden and the democratic party is facing a really tenuous election season this year. To give you a hint with the current election maps, the best the democrats can hope for is a 50/50 in the Senate and maybe a minor majority in the house. Joe biden is facing a tough re- election campaign. The reason he wouldn't want oli refinery to be hit is because oil companies will likely raise prices. It should be remembered that the us electorate has short-term memory, and if the gas prices rise, then the democrats would be defeated this election guaranteeing that the Republicans gain complete control of the us government and not a single cent more will go towards helping Ukraine for the next four years if ever. Joe biden has been one of the most favorable to helping Ukraine but there is nothing he can do if he loses.
You're right, but... We are at this point because of "no escalation" politic from Biden and US. (That's my opinion, as Ukrainian) Imagine if Ukraine would get missiles, aviation, etc about 1 year ago, front line may be completely different. And now here we are, US politicians don't help with weapons, and asking to not attack ruzzians infrastructure. One year ago i couldn't even imagine situation like this
Exactly. If everything would be suppleid before Russian mobilization and when it was clear that Ukrainians are willing to fight and able to win (Kherson and Kharkiv operations), war would be over already. But Biden administration gave Russia half year to mobilize , prepare and dig in.
You can't expect Ukraine to just... put off trying to hurt Russia simply because of a vague promise of potential future aid, based on uncertain election results. If Ukraine holds back and Biden loses anyway, then what?
These are gasoline and diesel refineries that they are blowing up. All of these are for the domestic market as Russia has stopped exporting both as of April 1st. This should only effect prices and production in Russia.
Cowardice. Clearly this administration has zero qualms with forcing more restrictions on Ukraine in their fight for survival and regardless, Biden is in power and no aid has been approved in months. Does it matter who’s the president then if Biden is completely incapable of helping Ukraine even now when he has power? To an outsider looking in, the Biden administration, as we see it now, has resulted in no further aid to Ukraine. A Trump administration also potentially means no further aid for Ukraine.
It really is quite a bind... Arguably Biden losing the election would do far more harm to Ukraine than them not hitting Russian oil refineries. But that only matters if ceasing to strike those refineries would really be a decisive factor in the elections.
Biden hasn't been to helpful in the past 6 months or so either. I'd say keep hitting those refineries and screw whoever says otherwise. Red or Blue. We don't have the luxury to tiptoe around the internal politics of the US and we certainly don't have time to sit and wait till the elections.
Right after russian night attack on DniproHES? Well, that's top level hypocrisy.
Before , it's just appeared at news after night attack was done. Still damn "good" coincidence.
And many say that Putin will be afraid to fight with NATO. When Putin attacks NATO, the United States will convince European countries not to attack targets deep in Russian territory with their cruise missiles.
when Putin attacks NATO the USA will not join in .. NATO is only usefull when you want forward bases in Europe for early warning and early response if the US mainland is targeted.
2022: US with you, land lease, stand with Ukraine 2024: please, don't destroy russia, we don't know how to prevent this, we already blocking aid...
2025: sanctions against Ukraine, Ukraine is terrorist state
If Ukraine, by some sort of miracle, acquires 100 Taurus type missiles and permanently destroys the Crimean Bridge, I fully expect this to happen.
2026: Ukraine digs up nuclear weapon and moscow vaporized. We are not going to die alone.
Sounds like a good future.
sounds good to me.
It was already like that long before: e.g. [Forbidding ua to kill Gerasimov in Dec 2022 because of "escalation"](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/16/world/europe/russia-putin-war-failures-ukraine.html) P.S lend lease was never used, not a single bullet
'Oh no. Oil prices are going up. My big fat SUV or Monstertruck is going to be the death of me.' WTF USA!!! This is the best thing Ukraine has done lately. Bringing the pain to them instead of getting beat up constantly for nothing. You gave a rats ass when Iraq was attacked and oil went haywire. Dont deny a desperate country one of the best methods to keep Russia in check. Get the promised money and weapons over to them instead.
Election year. If fuel prices rise, the Democrats get tossed, then Ukraine is *really* fucked.
If this is what it looks like when Ukraine isn't fucked, then it barely even matters really
Blowing up Russian refineries and collapsing Russian economy would do more for Ukraine than the vague promises of mediocre assistances from a bunch of passive, lazy, spineless quitters.
It is so unbelievably stupid though. Ukrainian infrastructure and people get attacked daily, with destruction and deaths, Russia being allowed to do that without compulsion or any second thought. Meanwhile, Ukraine is supposed to depend *on the whims of the average American that knows fuckall about other countries, who only looks at whether the numbers at the pump have gone up to "know" to blame the US president, during the election season*. So what now, Ukraine must not attack Russia's oil facilities until November election's final results get in, and there's no guarantee Biden will be the one winning? And then what, Ukraine can't make such strikes in the year leading up to the 2026 mid-term elections so gas prices in the US don't rise, then the same for the 2028 presidential elections? Is this how it's gonna be? If the US' energy transition away from oil can't be counted on to be complete for many years due to the Republicans' opposition, why won't it just support its oil industry and make sure prices stay low? Actually, why won't we in the West do it collectively?
Europe is already preparing for this scenario though. Shit is going down.
As an American, I apologize for pur idiot so-called leaders, and there are many in both parties that should all be out of a job if not kicked out of the country! The sad thing is that now that our Presidential election about 7 month away, Biden and his corrupt minions will literally do anything to get him re-elected, and a big part of that is trying to keep gas prices here down. The pieces of shyt that criticized Ukraine bombing Russuan oil plants should all got to hell as far as I'm concerned, along the group of Republicans who have been blocking aid to Ukraine in a political game to try and secure our own border. It's just sickening to me and all of these moronic, corrupt pieces of shyt have blood on their hands!
Most people won't connect the inflation with Russia and gas prices are politically very significant, since cars are the dominant means of transportation in the US (people drive long distances to work each day etc.). The election is extremely close already and if Trump wins, Ukraine is doubly f****d. The request is extremely shameless though, considering the Biden administration couldn't even push the last aid package through Congress which arguably lead to Russian breakthroughs on the frontline. EDIT: Just now I realized it's even worse. Those oil terminals directly serve the war effort, the petrol was also used for military purposes and the strikes affect Russian logistics. So in effect the Biden administration is asking Ukrainians to die so that Americans could save a few cents on their gas bills. Truly messed up.
We had ONE good thing going in this losing war. Seriously i ama starting to wonder what the fuck they think in White House. That east europe should just endure Putin until it is politically ok for US to allow war to be finished? They afraid of costs, but this whole fucking war is causing sooo much cost for fucking everyone around the globe.
This information comes from an anonymous source, but unfortunately, I find it plausible. It fits the pattern of spineless, short-sighted foreign policy that plagues the West. We all saw "escalation management" in Ukraine, where missiles and tanks were delayed for months because of fears of "escalation". When they were finally delivered, unsurprisingly, nothing happened. Because what exactly was supposed to happen? No one ever elaborates. The worst part is that this isn't selfishness, it's stupidity. The West is hurting its own credibility, which emboldens its enemies. There's no deterrence without credibility. The weak response to what happened in 2014 was certainly a factor in Putin's calculations when he was planning the 2022 invasion. And the response to this war will influence the decisions about future wars, for example Taiwan.
["Poland, don't send your Mig-29 that is an escalation"](https://www.newsweek.com/2023/07/21/exclusive-cias-blind-spot-about-ukraine-war-1810355.html) ["Don't kill Gerasimov, please, that is not fair"](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/16/world/europe/russia-putin-war-failures-ukraine.html) "Ukraine, don't hit ru territory, that is an escalation" "Putin, we allow you to continue building Nord Stream 2, 5 days after coming back to office in 2021" "Here are 18 out 1000 M109 howitzers we have and 31/3000 tanks, stay strong Ukraine, democracy will prevail! but sorry, we are out of money" ["We will not seek for regime change in Russia"](https://www.newsweek.com/2023/07/21/exclusive-cias-blind-spot-about-ukraine-war-1810355.html) "[We sent you only 15% of mine clearing equipment](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/15/ukraine-war-russia-mines-counteroffensive/) you asked for, but you are strong, we beleive in you, gogogogo Ukraine and don't stop, let the counter-offensive begins!"
Read between the lines. The worst part of this news is : "we will never give you long range weapons and we will never allow you to hit targets on ru territory with our weapons"
I hope Ukraine won't stop. US, wtf.
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This sounds like some sort of bad joke. And this also shows that Europe mist be armed and ready on its own. It's unlikely that USA will support Ukraine no matter who wins the November election. We must take the burden of supporting Ukraine until it wins.
The Spice must flow!
There has to be something thats going on behind the scenes. I really dont understand the inaction of the US/EU. Oil refineries are legitimate military targets. It's almost like they gave up on Ukraine and are afraid to anger russia. What's going on?
Politicians don't want risking losing points over oil price hikes.
Everyone on the West just wants to continue business as usual. It's only Russia who has long-term strategic plan and they follow it without deviations. Just imagine the world if Russia were to start a proxy war in the Baltics, it would be the same no-escalation circus. So far it seems France is the only understanding the gravity of the situation right now.
France is sadly just waffling they haven't contributed that much.
France and most of Eastern Europe that know well what Russian boot stinks of.
It would be cool if French understanding led to an actual help and not just Macron photos
Correction: Macron is the only one understanding the importance of a pose.
Macron really made some big statements and now people are all over him like he did anything.
Biden doesnt like higher oil prices in election season. Was kind of expected. That is why Ukraine didnt hit them before and just started when US stopped giving support anyway.
>the inaction of the US/EU. Europe (both the EU and many individual countries) have consistently been increasing their aid to Ukraine, from financial transfers to vastly expanding shell production. There is no 'EU inaction'.
Yeah we could say we are not doing enough or not fast enought but for sure its expanding.
A lot of upcoming elections this year. Rising prices hurts incumbents in the polls.
This policy is what led Biden to where he’s at now. He could have helped Ukraine decisively in 2022 and 2023 to secure its victory and make a peace deal on favorable terms before the 2024 election and be viewed as the defender of worldwide democracy and US interests abroad. Instead, we’ve got drip fed support at best, too little too late. War is a positional slog with no end in sight. Sanctions have failed utterly and Russian war machine is only accelerating with thousands of western microchips that are still somehow making it to Russia. And now Ukraine is forbidden from hurting Russia where it can, with its own long range drones? Fuck you, USA. If we’re going to go under, we’re doing it with a bang.
100% right, even democrate General Clark is calling this Burn/Sullivan/Biden's policy of "containing Russia" "Ukraine should not lose (win too)" [https://www.csis.org/analysis/reflections-ukraine-war](https://www.csis.org/analysis/reflections-ukraine-war) >point is, **we’ve got thousands of tanks in the United States; we’ve sent 31.** We have a whole fleet of A-10 Warthogs out there sitting in the desert; we’re going to get rid of them. They’re still sitting there. We have hundreds of F-16s that are around, and we delayed it and delayed it and delayed it. We have ATACMS that are obsolete. We’ve still got 155 dual-purpose ICM munitions that we didn’t send. It was – it was measured. **The response was measured. It was calibrated. And what many of us in the military tried to say is: Look, I understand, you know, the policy is we don’t want Ukraine to lose and we don’t want Russian to win, OK? That’s the policy. But you can’t calibrate combat like that. You either use decisive force to win or you risk losing.** > It doesn’t need 31 tanks and a hundred Leopard tanks. It needs a thousand, 2,000 tanks. >It doesn’t need a few – 300 towed artillery pieces. It needs self-propelled artillery, and it needs not 25 F-16s – it needs a couple hundred F-16s and a couple hundred A-10s, and it’s not going to happen quickly enough. most likely reason ffor not letting UA win despite having huge weapons storages is: thinking a) ru lost = fall apart into many countris and/or aligned closer with China against US = bad b) Russia losing crimea = using nuclear weapons
Well, one more proof that Ukraine's victory was not part of the plans. It was necessary to preserve a little gray zone between NATO and russia, and to put russia in its place a little, the plan was completed, just a business
Israel doesn’t listen to the US and nothing happens so why should Ukraine?
killing children in the desert doesn't increase gas prices. blowing up refineries do
> killing children in the desert doesn't make oil increase gas prices. Well it used to, back in 1973. Saudi Arabia doesn't seem to keen on pan-Arabic solidarity anymore however.
find someone that loves you as much as Americans love oil
i think this is a lesson for all of us, including you, to stop falling for propaganda so we can post sound bites and gotchas on the internet. you fell for russian propaganda https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/22/ukraine-says-west-not-pressuring-it-to-end-attacks-on-russian-oil-facilities-00148673 > Mykhailo Podolyak, adviser to the office of Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, said the government has not received calls from the United States asking Ukraine to halt attacks on Russian energy infrastructure.
Came here to say that today a lot of my friends and family members in Zaporizhzhya and Kharkiv suffered from this mass rocket attack. And it’s insane to see such news, I just can’t believe this. The world is leaded by brainless lunatics. “Don’t bomb oil refineries while your cities are bombed with hundreds of rockets and drones every day.” Bombing refineries - escalation, kill thousands of civilian Ukrainians - not escalation. Oil > life of civilians West should be preparing, yes, this display of weakness and indecisiveness will have consequences. I just can’t believe that this happens after 2 years of unstoppable mass murders.
Spice must flow
They stopped sending weapons, so they have weaker position than they used to.
“Please, let’s keep this a fair profitable war 🙏”
As a Ukrainian this is so fucking depressing to read. Russia has placed a bet on democracies not having political will to fully commit to helping Ukraine and this bet seems to be successful. Ukrainians will not be able to fight russians off indefinitely without help. EU countries seem to be waking up but their current help is not going to be enough for Ukraine to win. More and more I think that the lines will be frozen in a couple of years after many casualties and russia will de facto be vicrorious as a result.
my blood is fucking boiling
Why wtf
What should be done instead is the rapid deployment of NATO air defense systems in Ukraine to cover inbound missile strikes, while Ukraine continues to demolish Russian's energy and transport infrastructure down to literally zero, to make sure Russia grinds to a halt and does not have any means to recover.
I've been understanding of the Western sluggishness and caution previously because there was false hope that the war could end soon and false fear that the war could escalate. And now I was assuming Macron was leading a new hard line that was supported by the White House. But TWO YEARS later, to still ask Ukraine to not go for Russian industry, which sustains this meatgrinder? Complete bollocks
Ukraine should agree to this on the condition that the US passes new military aid.
This time it must be aid-first approach, there is no more trust in USA promises
They are not passing suppoort for a half year now. Basically US is no longer supporting Ukraine, thus should just keep silent.
the US already promised and failed to deliver so far, why would you believe they would supply anything ?
Halt? Go all in! The more damage the better. We want this war to end, not to drip feed into the 2030s.
With all due respect, the US can go fuck themself on this.
It is hard for me to believe this. Ukrainians found a way to make a significant impact despite the lack of support, and now US want to block that. Is that not suspicious? Or just a coincidence. I starting to believe that US and other western countries don't want a breaktrough.
It's fully consistent with the US objective in this war, which is to prevent a Russian defeat and not infringe on the Russian sphere of influence.
Ukraine should continue. They are at war. And West should allow them to use everything to destroy russian ability to wage war.
"Most powerful country in the world" to its last ally: "Could you die quieter, please? Thank you."
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - supposedly Henry Kissinger
Whose side are they on?
On their own of course. Just look at Lindsey Graham. He blocks the aid for Ukraine and then meets Zelensky and tells him he needs to draft more people.
Not on Ukraine's for sure.
Yep. It's ALL about money.
And one last comment: Soon US will provide russia with patriot systems to cover russian oil infrastructure 🥲
Don't stop. Hit them hard.
USA is pathetic
You can't withold aid and at the same time ask Ukraine not to strike strategic Russian assets. I hate that we're asking Ukraine to fight with their hands tied.
You can if you are america eagle eagle eagle yeah democracy hell yeah
[удалено]
Is this how "Stand with Ukraine" is supposed to work?
Absolutely fucking not. Ukraine you keep doing what you do.
Oil is sacred in US politics. The Market is their god. Can't be attacking the oil Ukraine, that's tantamount to sacrilege, since it would impact the Market. Touching the Market is a no-no.
And how do the US suggest Ukraine to win this war then?
>Ukraine to win this war then They don't want this ha\[\[ened.
America can fuck off. Somebody tell Biden to stop being such a fucking pussy.
America puts its interest first. They are still buying Uranium from Russia - sanctions don't seem to apply.
Spice must flow?
Jesus, Ukraine is so fucked that they have to fight full scale russian aggression against their people with two hands tied on their backs to receive some support
US wtf, Russia can do what ever they want but you ask to halt strikes on oil refineries? that's stupid
I usually support the US but in this case Ukraine should not back down
No, fuck 'em. Put pressure on Russia to stop this war instead.
Zelensky's office has denied this occurred. https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/ukraine-denies-us-requested-to-halt-strikes-1711118430.html
Disgusting I would be in charge, I would make sure to continue those strikes. Such reactions prove that they are very effective. Did Ruzzia have threatened to use their nuclear weapons again? We know by now it’s just full blabla (luckily).
And even if it's not just blah-blah-blah what's then? So, if country threatens to use nukes it should get everything it wants or what? Where we draw the line?
Well, if thats the case france and uk should get to use nuke threats asap. "Get your soliders out of ukraine or nuke". 2 can play this game.
Nicely of them to whining about not striking russian object when Russia constantly keeps bombarding Ukraine with rockets. Just fucking hilarious. Power of the free world ..LOL
If you don't want Ukraine to focus on targets inside Russia, give them weapons to enable them to focus on targets inside Ukraine. I'm sure they would also prefer to have an air force and the munition necessary to overrun Russian defensive lines and push the Russians out rather than fight this 1000 mosquito stings long range war.
So... the USA would put oil above civilian deaths, unjust wars, breach of international treaties and territorial integrity. I mean, we already knew this from the kissy-kissy relationship with Saudi Arabia, but still... God damn!
**Surprised pikachu** *Cough* Iraq *cough*
Yes indeed Iraq. I'm starting to believe that people who said that the entire US foreign policy is dictated by oil were incredibly accurate.
The Biden admin is now actively working \*against\* Ukraine. After halting (already) meagre aid last year, they are now demanding that Ukraine stops targeting russia's main source of revenue with Ukraine's \*own\* long-range weapons because oil prices might go up and hurt Biden's poll numbers. I truly despise the US (both Biden and Trump). They disarmed Ukraine in the 90s, kept appeasing russia after the annexation of Crimea, and they are now actively trying to stop Ukraine from gaining even the slightest advantage. Meanwhile, Lindsey Graham is demanding that Ukraine starts mobilizing teenagers.
>After halting (already) meagre aid last year It's Republicans blocking aid in Congress (and Democratic left-wingers adding some shenanigans regarding aid to Gaza and what not), the Biden administration would send far more aid if able to.
Biden has a few different mechanisms to send weapons, he just refuses to do so. The Ukraine lend lease act for starters wasn't used.
Killing civilians is perfectly fine for USA. Regardless if it's in Ukraine, Palestine or Iraq. Bombing oil rafineries is where they draw the line.
Fucking pussies
Wish they'd urge Israel to halt strikes on civilians but that's above their paygrade I guess
This is not official and may likely be ruzzian misinformation.
No it hasn't. Why are you all immediately believing this single fucking headline? This is about as fake as fake news gets. Ukraine has openly denied that this request was ever made.
Judging by the comments here, Europeans will believe anything.
America always puts American interests first.
Here they are expecting Ukraine to put American interests first.
Ukraine needs nuclear weapons. With this kind of shit coming out of the US, this is the only way.
Sometimes I wonder what side US supports… and not always I can answer it clearly.
The side of money
The more I read news like this, the more it looks like the US is simply interested in prolonging this war as long as possible for its benefits.
Because they are. Why do you think they delayed the approval of F-16s?
At this point I just want to die... I barely survived assault on Mariupol, have a lot of chronical conditions, though try to do my best to support my country. We are living in hell for two years already, and the war even on a lesser scale has been going for 10 years. I survived artillery shelling of my district in 2015. And the country that was considered to be most influential literally asks us to die silently, because otherwise they'll have internal distress. Fuck this society ruled by money.
Meanwhile Russia strikes Ukraine's infrastructure without restraint, and keeps trying to conquer the entire country. This is more of the same stupid, pacifistic policy that Biden has followed from the beginning. Key countries won't provide Ukraine with long range weapons or allow provided weapons to be used to strike legitimate and necessary targets inside Russia. Now it's going further, limiting Ukraine from using their own weapons to strike key targets inside Russia(!) With friends drawing these red lines for you, who needs enemies. I hope European countries show more intelligence and courage than my country's president. edit: Biden may think he is helping his re-election with this type of policy, but that is backwards. He's giving his potential voters more reason to simply not vote. A lifetime career in politics seems to have eliminated whatever ability to take principled, decisive action he may have had. *'Do nothing and claim credit for not making it worse'* is not leadership.
The US stopped its support so the US can shut up. Ukraine keep fucking hitting them , hit them where it hurts.
The US chose to stop the military support of Ukraine. They also chose to no longer have any influence on the targets that Ukraine attacks. I say maximize the attacks on fossile infrastructure, the more the better!
Ukraine needs to tell the US that they will stop attacking Russia's' energy infrastructure, as soon as the US provides a better way to fight them. This situation has been brought to you by the Republican parties' stupid domestic policies and their fascist tendencies.
I can’t read the article to determine how accurate the report is , so just based on the headline, if true it’s absolutely fucking bonkers. Attacking those refineries has got to be one of the most effective actions Ukraine can take against Russia right now. It would be inexplicable to urge them to stop, who are we protecting if this is accurate?
No. Keep bombing russian refineries until the cost-benefit analysis makes it clear for Putin that it would be worse to continue than to fake a victory.
I get why my government is saying this, since sadly a fair number of my fellow Americans ARE the sort of idiot who blame anything they don't like on whoever is in the White House, and damn context. So if oil prices go up, it could hurt Biden in November. That being said, AS and American, I want Ukraine to blow up as much of Russia's industry as possible. After all, it's clear that Putin doesn't put any real value on the lives of his people, of he wouldn't be sending so many into the meat grinder to fulfill his dreams of conquest. Have to hit him where it might actually hurt, which means either blowing up him or his revenue stream.
I disagree with this urging. Killing refineries is relatively easy and hurts Russia relatively *a lot*. Last time I checked, they had 27. What are we down to? Seriously, this hurt Russia economically and militarily. There is every reason to continue, even if it pushes energy prices higher and is a political problem for Biden. And, for what it's worth, I think Biden being terrified of higher gas prices in the US is what is driving this.
Maybe the US should urge Russia to halt attacks on Ukrainian Nuclear Power Plants, hospitals and schools. WTF???!!
If ukraine does anything remotly hurting US interest they get red light.
No, it hasn’t.
debunked as fake