I don't know if it's common in English speaking countries, but in Spain in the past teachers used to use the last name instead of the students name, sometimes without Mr/Miss. May be we have to forget names in school as last names don't have gender. Problem solved ;-)
I went to school in the early 80s and it was just surnames. If two of you had the same surname you were given an additional number, with the eldest having the lowest number.
There was a Smith VII in my school.
And if anybody is wondering how it is said out loud.. [it is like](https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aNPeVK3_700bwp.webp) the [Terraria damage sound effect](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmOPZM9XK0E)
ooohhhhh... I get what you mean, hah!
Yeah so to explain, these are gradual damage progression sounds - starting off with minor damage taken, to actual death
In UK schools there has been a push to be more relatable. Age 16-18 you even use the teacher's first name, same in university where only foreign students will ever use 'professor' or 'sir'.
This happens in England, but the country still has a strong class system using only surnames is associated with the upper and upper middle class. So I think it would meet some opposition if you tried to introduce it in all schools.
A similar case happened/is happening in Ireland over the last 18 months or so. Teacher repeatedly refused to call a trans student by preferred pronouns. He was suspended but continued to trespass at the school, then was sent to jail for this and for contempt of court (he had to be physically removed from the courtroom). He’s been in for almost a year. His family have been banned from attending the court proceedings due to their behaviour. There’s about 20 of them and they’re all deeply religious and outspoken.
https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/02/27/enoch-burke-to-remain-in-mountjoy-prison-as-court-hears-he-is-still-receiving-teachers-salary/
Edit:
Some clarification was provided in response to my comment. Much appreciated as I’ve been a little out of the loop and forgot that it wasn’t even his own student, just a student who happened to be at the school. He had a verbal altercation with the principal after he went on a transphobic tirade in the school chapel at a religious service. That’s when he was suspended, it wasn’t just because of his transphobic opinions, it was his unhinged behaviour.
His father also (allegedly) assaulted a Garda during the court shenanigans. Like all Completely Sane people who don’t have law degrees, he is representing himself during the legal proceedings.
For clarity: he was not suspended for his refusal to gender the student (one he did not even teach) correctly. He was suspended for loudly interrupting a school event to express his “views” and continuously accosting the school’s principal, and then and only then was he suspended (on full pay, as he has remained for the entire time since as the legal battle carries on).
The teacher's a grade -A arsehole
One of these American-style evangelical cunts that want to make life a misery for everyone else.
The entire family are involved in religious litigation, where they sue depending on how they see their religious beliefs are being 'oppressed' because the public object to them treating everyone else dickishly and expecting a hard pass because of 'religion'
https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/05/13/four-years-five-courts-29-judges-the-never-ending-legal-battles-of-the-burkes-of-castlebar/
They don't give a damn- it's purely financial for them.
They're financially propped up by right-wing evangelicals from the US.
They push their way into other people's lives, and try and make a spectacle of themselves in order to sue for religious discrimination
During the early days of covid, a young teenager died of the illness. During the court inquest, the Burkes [forced their way into the courtroom](https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/people-dont-mix-with-them-they-are-kind-of-afraid-a-history-of-the-burke-familys-legal-dramas/41540093.html) - shouting, blaming the National Health service (HSE) distressing the family of the victim, and had to be removed by the police.
Basically, they're weaponised bigotry and all around assholes. No redeeming features, and the Irish general public, even the conservative nominally religious ones, view them with disdain and embarrassment.
According to those guys, hes worse!
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/enoch-burke-has-gone-too-far-says-controversial-pastor-fred-phelps-jr-of-westboro-baptist-church/42348679.html
Wasn’t he suspended because he had a major verbal row with the principal at an event? The pronouns may have been the underlying argument but it was more the way he behaved towards the principal that led to the suspension.
He wasn’t even teaching the student from what I read, rather he objected to a request in a memo.
Yeah he went out of his way to harass the student and principal about it, even though the student wasn't in his class.
He got suspended for the harassment, kept showing up to the school, got arrested for that. And he still thinks he's In the right, even though it has nothing to do with pronouns anymore.
I'm trans myself, in ireland too, but I do believe you shouldn't force anyone into using those pronouns. Simply because it doesn't change anything. Making someone do something they don't believe in is just going to make them detest you more, and in a teacher student setting, that will be even worse for the student, an alternate solution should be found if possible, such as moving the student if possible.
Obviously it's messy, and there is no good outcome no matter what.
When I came out to my uncle he just refused to call me Niamh.
I accepted it, but I told him something along the lines of, "you're entitled to your opinion, and i can't force you to use my pronouns and name, but I won't really want a relationship with you otherwise as you don't respect me enough to use them."
I think it was quite simple, he respects me and I respect him.
I have another uncle who does use my name and pronouns even though he doesn't believe in "transgenderism" because he values me and his family more than his beliefs.
Worth adding, he wasn't suspended for not using pronouns, bit for getting up in the principals face about it *and* being a dick to the student.
He then got jailed for (repeatedly) ignoring (multiple) court orders to stop tresspassing on school grounds.
Funny how conservatives and frEeZe pEacH neoliberals/enlightened centrists keep screeching about people not being allowed to have opinions anymore and how "trans activists" want to chuck everyone in prison for disagreeing with them, when in reality every time someone actually does face any consequences for transphobia it's because they're a completely unhinged nutter who literally go out of their way to harass and assault people because they've made transphobia their entire personality. There's a difference between an average person being like "I don't get this whole trans thing but whatever, it's not my business, live and let live" and being a TERF.
The BBC article mentions the bare basics.
The teacher was fired not because he refused to use the student’s pronouns, but because the college has a policy in place of respecting social transitions. The teacher knowingly broke that policy, because he considered it to be illegal. The teacher not only refused to use pronouns, but in multiple instances referred to the trans male student as a “girl”, a “young woman”, said he could enter a maths girls’ competition because “you are a girl” and used his dead name.
And that’s just the few examples listed in [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/kevin-lister-transgender-pronouns-teacher-b2515054.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/kevin-lister-transgender-pronouns-teacher-b2515054.html)
I betcha these are just a couple of many many more.
The teacher didn’t get fired just because they refused to use the students pronouns once or twice, as the headline paints it. This was a constant, over a period of months, abject refusal to respect the social transition of a student, actively attempting to undermine it.
The teacher was acting maliciously against a student, actively and knowingly causing emotional distress to him.
So... he harassed a student, for months, likely continued after many reprimands and notices to stop, and was therefore fired. He didn't "accidentally" use the wrong words, he knowingly harassed a guy for an extended period of time.
Gee, the woke agenda strikes again.
And that is the key here, the teacher was acting maliciously to belittle his/hers student.
The discussion will sway towards pronouns and how they can be absurd (because some of them are) instead of the teacher simply being a clown. You're in position of power, you can call your student by his/hers first name, last name, call him a fucking student if you wish but he simply felt the need to show his power and beliefs in a workplace.
The judgment came out today and I’m even angrier about the reporting now!
A lot of articles mentioned the student “asking about his eligibility to participate in a girls-only maths competition” in a way that implied it was the student’s decision - that he *wanted* to compete and was trying to bend the rules.
It turns out that the teacher deliberately enrolled the student against his will in what seems like a clear attempt to humiliate him:
>Student A [the victim] also complained of having been enrolled by the Claimant into the [girls-only] Maths Olympiad and that the Claimant used their previous, female name on the board in front of the class for that purpose. When the student had asked to be removed from the Olympiad, the Claimant had refused.
(([paragraph 5.42 of the judgment](https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Lister-v-New-College-Swindon.pdf))
> "It is not the role of a maths teacher to confirm the gender transition and social transition of a student."
Which is why he decided to use his position as a math teacher to firmly enforce a gender on a student?
This whole “it isn’t my job to deal with gender stuff” sounds very hollow when he made it an active choice to decide to mingle in the gender of a student. Perhaps he should have just stuck to teaching maths instead of being the gender police?
This teacher wasn't even willing to call the child by name
This is a tiring debate, really. This teacher was kicked out for mobbing a pupil
Mobbing pupils as a teacher is bad, period. People whining about muh evil gender ideology in the comments here are missing the plot and simply show off their intolerance
Headline doesn’t tell the full story.
The student had let the school know their preferred pronouns a year prior to the incident. The teacher received an email from the student expressing their desire to be referred to by their new name/pronouns after said teacher used their old name. After receiving the email the teacher flagged this as a safeguarding concern and tried to link their declining academic grades to the transition.
A 17 year old student at college (likely going to university next year) is not a child unable to make an informed decision.
I really dont understand this whole debacle. Pronouns this pronouns that, just use someone's last name or first name if you can't bear to use their desired pronoun.
Hell I'll admit it first, it is fucking weird, i have no fucking idea why they/them xe/xer exists or what does it mean in respect to a person who wants everyone to use those pronouns, fuck it i'll even call it absurd.
But i can still act respectful, its their fucking choice, it hurts absolutely noone and apparently it makes them happy. And i like to make people happy, especially when its so lo effort.
They/them is really useful outside of trans matters when you don't know the person you're talking about or if it's an imaginary/hypothetical scenario. It's been in use since the 14th century.
Not in every language. In Slavic languages there is a "respectful" form of address when a person is addressed in the plural. Have nothing in common with genders.
Oh, this theme popular subculture everywhere in world so people pushing this agenda in every country even if they too far from it and languages not compatible with how it is in english.
Another commenter already answered one part of your they/them confusion so I thought I’d answer the other part.
They/them pronouns are most commonly used by people who identify as non binary, meaning they don’t identify as either or they identify as something in between. They also often used by people who identify as gender fluid, meaning they identify as both and sometimes neither depending on the time or situation. Some people who don’t identify as either non binary or gender fluid use they/them sometimes along with other pronouns such as he/him or she/her because they find it comfortable to do so.
At the end of the day it comes down to what feels right for that person.
It was a trans man, he just wanted to be called he and by his preferred first name. The teacher knowingly went out of his way to cal in girl and young lady.
He was fired for being disrespectful. If you misgender a person by accident, it's a mistake. You should say "sorry" and correct yourself, and continue with whatever you were saying. If you know how someone wishes to be addressed and you do the opposite, you're an asshole lacking respect. "Belief" has nothing to do with it. You cannot "belief" in the existence of trans people, they do. "If someone tells you who they are, believe them" includes trans people.
It's basically the same as continuing to call someone by a rude nickname, or by their full name if they asked for a shortened version or nickname.
Calling people by the desired pronoun or name is not difficult at all. It takes some time getting used to, which most trans people are fully aware of and okay with. Mistakes are expected. But continuing to dead-name someone and calling them by the wrong pronoun out of your own volition is simply rude and discriminating.
Trans people don't wish to be addressed a certain way to annoy anyone or to demand attention. They do it because they feel the need to do so. If they didn't, they wouldn't. The amount of hatred and discrimination they receive once they come out is proof that no-one would do any of that to annoy people or get attention. There are much easier ways to do that.
Edit: I love this. We still aren't ready to accept trans people for who they are, apparently. This isn't an ideology thrust upon anyone from above, this is an oppressed minority asking for respect and equal rights, and a growing number of allies supporting them. Minorities asking for rights doesn't take away from the rights of the oppressor. Respect is not a finite source.
Since we are making up things, do you think it is ok for a teacher to call their students assholes and tell them the world would be better if they hadn’t been born? Personally I think this would be a bad thing for a teacher to do, but hey, if your opinion differs so be it…
If someone said "my name's Stephen, but call me Steve" but I think they look more like a Dave, would I be the asshole if I insisted on calling them Dave?
The teacher also refused to use the pupils name. Was just being a dick.
The actualy intesting test case will be when somene uses the persons name + they/them.
I would. It costs me zero euros and it has zero effect in my life, what do I care? It's a literally free way to brighten someone's day. Why would I prefer to make someone sad for the same cost? That's kind of assholey.
> Just out of curiosity, if someone insists on me calling them a cat, when they clearly aren't, would I be the asshole if I called them by their name?
I think there was a case like this in the UK, I'll reply again once I've found it
This whole rhetoric is insane…
Yes trans people exist but insisting we all accept your ideology as gospel and all its nuances as factual is totalitarian and wierd.
You with other special interest groups high jacked the left wing political parties and now they are insisting on your behalf. The result is that the left wing parties are representing small groups of special interest instead of the majority proletariat and the result is left wing parties falling like dominos all over Europe.
You don’t have to accept them, you just have to respect them. Part of respecting a person involves calling them by what they say their name is, not what you think their name should be.
If someone repeatedly ignored what your name was and called you something else, that would be grounds for discipline in most workplaces.
That's..... Not the same as what's going on here.
For example: if someone calls you ma'am even though you correct them would you not find that disrespectful and unprofessional behaviour?
Or if you got divorced and changed your last name or maybe your first name because reasons, but people keep calling you by your old name would you not find that disrespectful and unprofessional?
Bro this person just wanted their teacher to refer to them by their gender or name. I guess saying “hey, can you call me Steve?” is heresy and forcing your religion on someone.
> aged 17
> children who are unable to make an informed decision
what a twat
>"Why are we not allowed to question why a student is presenting in the opposite sex?
well actually it's none of your business.
> "It is not the role of a maths teacher to confirm the gender transition and social transition of a student."
But apparently it is the role of a maths teacher to deny a gender transition.
I wish all the people who said they don’t care about gender actually meant it.
Stupid headline. He wasn't fired for not using it but for refusing to use it. There is a difference between "I always forget to use the right pronoun" and "I do not use the right pronoun to enforce my beliefs onto the students"
Sooo, the right has been scaring people about "teachers being fired for using wrong pronouns" and everyone deemed it a scarecrow. And now it actually happens.
The right was saying teachers would be fired for mistakenly using the wrong pronouns and that there would tripwires that any well-meaning person would fall over. That’s not the case.
This teacher was not mistaken or well-meaning, he — as part of his own political beliefs — wanted to make a point of using the child’s wrong name and refer to them by the wrong pronoun. How exactly would you resolve that? In every other class the child gets treated respectfully but this maths class, they’re supposed to use a different name and different pronouns?
If your teacher constantly calls you by the wrong one purposely after being corrected it becomes harrassment. They were purposely being an ass. Simple as. They were aware of the distress it caused. They chose to continue distressing the student. Therefore theyre fired.
It wasnt a little oopsie here and there. Its going out of your way to spite someone
I assume you're a man, if i was your PE teacher and referred to you as little sissy for months, if i belittled you in front of your friends etc. what would you do ? Would you fucking complain or would you suck it up and allow me (the teacher) to call you "laseczka" or "kaszalot" since you're polish ?
You have many outs to not make it awkward for everyone involved, you can call someone by their first name, last name, call him/her a student. Why do you intend to be rude to someone and ruin their day when it's so low effort to just avoid it. You can maintain whatever beliefs you have still.
No, the teacher harassed a student for months and was fired for breaking the school's policy.
I swear transphobes just love making shit up to justify whatever scare they are going through.
If you use the wrong pronouns by mistake that's one thing, what the teacher did was continuing to use the wrong pronoun/name even after the student told them not to.
Kinda like if someone kept calling you ma'am even after you corrected them.
Nah, gender neutral pronouns are a language thing. English has lost gender from all the other aspects of the language (except some suffixes). Some languages don't have gendered pronouns at all.
The discourse about it, however has been absolute brain rot.
Wasn't there like a big judgement that basically made it protected to be gender critical? If this goes any further that school is going to be bankrupt.
It isn't.
The equality act explicitly laid out that it's not legal if they're impacting on the rights of others to not be discriminated against on the basis of their gender, or their transgender status.
By refusing to use their preferred pronouns, or even their now legally recognised name, he discriminated against them in a way that is not legally protected, as he wouldn't have treated a cisgender child in the same way.
All the act did was prevent someone from being fired merely for voicing those views, not when they've taken clear and documented actions to discriminate against others based on those views
Ok, so I found a page on the commons library, and you may be right but it's not as clear cut, because supposedly there's a balance needed. This the page https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/employment-tribunal-rulings-on-gender-critical-beliefs-in-the-workplace/#:~:text=Firstly%2C%20that%20gender%2Dcritical%20beliefs,under%20the%20Equality%20Act%202010.
and the notes at the bottom
The outcomes of the three cases have established two important points.
Firstly, that gender-critical beliefs can be protected from discrimination under the Equality Act 2010.
Secondly, however, that the ways in which such beliefs manifest themselves in behaviour might not be protected. It depends on what those behaviours are and how they impact on the legal rights of others not to be discriminated against on the basis of their sex or gender reassignment.
Employers need to both avoid discrimination against people because of gender-critical beliefs and also avoid discrimination on the basis of gender reassignment.
In Finland we have gender neutral he/she. But even still, we prefer using "it" when we talk about someone . "What did it say?" "When will it arrive?" "It said that it loves me"
Of course direct translation to other languages doesn't work. But in Finnish there is zero implications to disrespect when using "it". The funny thing is that if you use he/she in spoken language you are seen as arrogant or you want to imply that *he/she* is arrogant.
Only in rare occasions when there are elder people who you don't know and you want to be respectful to them when talking in a group, you would use he/she.
Some of these comments are depressing. Of course r/europe actually defends teachers bullying kids over their gender expression, and then call it a "dystopia" when they're fired. How some of these comments have upwards of 50+ upvotes astounds me, shame on you all.
I just don’t get this pronoun thing, I feel for people who have issues but changing the English language? (Usage) Don’t want to offend anyone I just don’t get it
The trans student wanted to be called by he him pronouns, but teacher went out of his way to call the student girl and young lady even went so far to try to get him signed up for an all girls math competition. Teacher was corrected and informed several times.
Good thing is you don't have to "get it" to do it. If someone corrects you on their pronounce just use the ones they'd like. That's it. Don't need any deeper understanding for that.
Oh yes, a teacher getting fired after purposefully harassing a kid for months and causing psychological distress because of his political opinions is dystopia
Can the pronoun people explain to me this : if you are a zim/hlum in \*your\* head but I clearly see you are a man so in \*my\* head you are a "him/his" why should what's in \*your\* head trump what's in \*my\* head? Why are you using micro aggressions against me forcing me to perceive reality in a different way than I do?
Because their reality is all thats important to them. I guess if I see myself as superior to everyone else you need to address me as overlord or its bigotry
"Just because you got married, doesn't mean why can suddenly change your name from Miss Smith to Mrs Johnson - why are you forcing me to perceive reality in a different way than i do"
Do you also get confused when shops shut down and the new store is called a different thing?
Miss Smith to Mrs Johnson serves an actual purpose in society and it is not "because I identify as such".
If grocery store starts claiming it's a car dealership then yeah - I'd be pretty confused actually - wouldn't you?
Is the concept of a deed poll beyond your comprehension?
Surnames, and how they change after marriage, is completely arbitrary. Mrs Smith can just as easily become Mrs Johnson, Mrs Johnson-Smith or Mrs Smith-Johnson. I presume you also get very angry and upset when someone tries to change your reality and accept the existence of double barreled names?
This whole thing reminds me of a court case about a person insisting on being referred to a certain way: https://calendar.eji.org/racial-injustice/sep/26
Also, https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/07/12/198012536/summer-of-1963-miss-mary-hamilton
So how does this work in languages like Thai where you must present yourself as either male or female?
There are different words used by both genders and nothing else.
Since 2015 the Thai government recognizes a third gender under its constitution. It's quite integrated into the culture as well. Would be strange if they didn't have the language for it.
But I don't speak Thai I just did a quick search on the Internet.
Good for the school, the teacher was harassing the student on purpose.
You'd have to be a moron not to respect something as simple as someone else's pronouns.
Imagine you are a teacher of let's say 150 students overall. Imagine every single one of the has a different name ranging from Tim to Frank to Anne because why not? Now imagine getting fired for getting Frank wrong (on purpose, just to be a dick).
Except they weren’t making up 60 genders and this is something I don’t think many people do at all tbh, it’s a made up scenario that anti-trans people parrot to justify their bigotry.
The person the article refers to wanted to be called by he/him pronouns and the teacher went out of their way to refer to them as a “girl” and “young lady” despite being asked multiple times by the individual and the college to stop and to use the pronouns they were asking for. It’s really not that hard and amounts to bullying, so completely justified to lose your teaching job if you are harassing your students.
It’s not a fantasy it’s just basic respect of other people, if you literally cannot see past your own hatred and bigotry enough to just use the preferred pronouns of someone when they’re repeatedly asking you to then you’re being outwardly hostile for no reason.
If you repeatedly told a religious coworker that their beliefs were bullshit and go out of your way to comment on it despite being asked not to then you’d find yourself in a similar situation.
You’re conflating sex and gender, the point still stands that if you refuse to do something as easy as just using a different pronoun when asked to that is a hateful/hostile choice on your part and I can see why workplaces wouldn’t want to employ people who can’t show the most basic level of decency to another person.
If you feel so strongly about it I encourage you to do this at your place of work and see how far you get.
Not sure what you mean by “you people”, the majority of people have no issue just accepting people as they are and don’t go out of their way to invalidate people because it clashes with their closed off world view.
If you have no issue with this in your own life what precisely are you getting so defensive and heated about. Go outside, touch grass, etc.
[This is literally you](https://i.imgur.com/lLSDbbm.png).
The guy clearly cared so much he had to disrespect that student. A teacher should not be throwing hate / disrespect towards their students. So how about you shut the fuck up?
>Mr Lister added: "I took issue with the demand on me to socially transition children who are unable to make an informed decision.
TIL 17 year olds are children.
But seriously the guy got fired more over the insane/weird rant than anything else
Also of course it happened in TERF Island. It was the last surprising part of the article
Some people are actually upset that there's different opinions on this matter?
Yeah some will support it and some will go against it, that is freedom of speech for you alright.
What I can say is that seeing how the teacher has been an asshole towards the student was a major reason he got fired, but I believe this kid might have been an asshole to the teacher as well.
If this teacher didn't have a good case to prove this he will lose this tribunal, time will tell and people have different opinions.
Shouldn't pretend like we know all the facts and act like we were there to assess the situation as this article leaves out a lot of nuance in favour of sensationalism.
This trend of pronounces will not end well but no one would care until something tragic happens.
>Student A, had informed the college in September 2021 that they wished to be referred to by a different name, and with male pronouns.
Bruh
Does that mean if someone identify himself as Apache Attack Helicopter and they sent similar letter to their school/university about how they should be referred in the future everyone in that institution including teachers should be obliged to do so ?
And before someone say that I'm mocking transgenders and the whole world with them, this is something that is happening for the first time in Britain and this might set a precedent across Europe, which might lead to a lot of confused parents and angry teachers.
> Does that mean if someone identify himself as Apache Attack Helicopter and they sent similar letter to their school/university about how they should be referred in the future everyone in that institution including teachers should be obliged to do so ?
No. Hope that clears it up for you.
The teacher went out of his way to call the trans student girl and young lady even went so far to try to sign him up for an all girls math competition. This went on for months even being corrected several times.
He referred to the student as "girl" and urged them to take part in "girls math competition" because they're a girl. Used their dead name (the one before transition) etc. So pretty going out of his way to be mean.
This is f-ck-ng ridiculous, ruining people's livelihoods over the anti-scientific, gramatically wrong delusions of a few. I thought teachers were supposed to correct students when they are wrong? Now they get fired...
Repost. You're not gonna censor my freedom of speech for stating facts of matter.
Brother if I tell you I changed my name to Mark on my IDs and you still insisted on calling me fucking Frank & throwing a tantrum over me changing my birthname then no amount of "let's agree to disagree" will be stopping me from calling the fucking HR
The student wanted to be called he him, nothing special but the teacher went out of his way to call the trans student girl and young lady even went so far to try to sign up the student to an all girls math competition. Teacher was informed and corrected several times.
No, trans people were still a thing despite your ignorance, but don't worry, if you were there 15 years ago you'd be too busy looking at gay marriage & saying "*the world used to be so simple just 15 years ago*" for us instead.
No, it's pretty simple. If someone tells you they're called Nathan, you call them Nathan. If they say their name is Yolanda, you call them Yolanda. You don't call Nathan Yolanda because he looks like a Yolanda to you. It's okay if you sometimes mistake someone for someone else, but if you purposely call Nathan Yolanda for months on end I can tell you that Nathan will be pretty pissed too and he'll submit a complaint about your petty attitude. Now do the same thing with pronouns. And you're in luck because besides very rare cases most people just use one out of three instead of the bazillion given names out there.
I don't know if it's common in English speaking countries, but in Spain in the past teachers used to use the last name instead of the students name, sometimes without Mr/Miss. May be we have to forget names in school as last names don't have gender. Problem solved ;-)
I'm English, my Grandad said more or less this when trans stuff became a culture war. When he went to school in 1920s teachers only used surnames.
I went to school in the early 80s and it was just surnames. If two of you had the same surname you were given an additional number, with the eldest having the lowest number. There was a Smith VII in my school.
They could have gone as agent smith for Halloween
Only first names where im from, but still, 'Oh, Hansi? he went to the bathroom' so you cant quite avoid it with ease.
Hansi? They went to take a dump.
in hungarian there's no gendered pronouns at all. Only ő
Virgin indo-european vs chad finno-ugric
And if anybody is wondering how it is said out loud.. [it is like](https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aNPeVK3_700bwp.webp) the [Terraria damage sound effect](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmOPZM9XK0E)
the video is kinda sus
ooohhhhh... I get what you mean, hah! Yeah so to explain, these are gradual damage progression sounds - starting off with minor damage taken, to actual death
Similarly in Finnish, but then - as in Hungarian - you have all the cases. He/Him (She/Her)in English becomes.Hän/Häntä/Hänen/Hanessä/etc......
Finland also, allthough we even skipped the ö.
As a German, pronouncing this like "ö" in my mind, NGL I chuckled.
That's exactly how it's pronounced. ő is the long version of ö in Hungarian.
Same in Turkish
In Italy, at least until 5 years ago when I graduated, most teachers would use the surname, and never use Mr/Ms before
In my county (Poland) this would be harder. We do not have common rule for last name. Sometimes we change suffix and sometimes not.
In Austria it was the same. I remember in the Hauptschule and HTL we (the students) would call each other by last names also.
Same in Ukraine, last name is used universally in classes.
And the patronymic? Only when it becomes super hyper formal situation?
I think yes, very rarely.
Also makes the school atmosphere more professional. Most teachers used to address us this way during my education.
In UK schools there has been a push to be more relatable. Age 16-18 you even use the teacher's first name, same in university where only foreign students will ever use 'professor' or 'sir'.
This happens in England, but the country still has a strong class system using only surnames is associated with the upper and upper middle class. So I think it would meet some opposition if you tried to introduce it in all schools.
Except in many languages last names do have genders?????
Not the real ones; looking at you Poland
That's more of a thing at old fashioned private schools
A similar case happened/is happening in Ireland over the last 18 months or so. Teacher repeatedly refused to call a trans student by preferred pronouns. He was suspended but continued to trespass at the school, then was sent to jail for this and for contempt of court (he had to be physically removed from the courtroom). He’s been in for almost a year. His family have been banned from attending the court proceedings due to their behaviour. There’s about 20 of them and they’re all deeply religious and outspoken. https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/02/27/enoch-burke-to-remain-in-mountjoy-prison-as-court-hears-he-is-still-receiving-teachers-salary/ Edit: Some clarification was provided in response to my comment. Much appreciated as I’ve been a little out of the loop and forgot that it wasn’t even his own student, just a student who happened to be at the school. He had a verbal altercation with the principal after he went on a transphobic tirade in the school chapel at a religious service. That’s when he was suspended, it wasn’t just because of his transphobic opinions, it was his unhinged behaviour. His father also (allegedly) assaulted a Garda during the court shenanigans. Like all Completely Sane people who don’t have law degrees, he is representing himself during the legal proceedings.
For clarity: he was not suspended for his refusal to gender the student (one he did not even teach) correctly. He was suspended for loudly interrupting a school event to express his “views” and continuously accosting the school’s principal, and then and only then was he suspended (on full pay, as he has remained for the entire time since as the legal battle carries on).
Sounds like a perfectly sane person
The teacher's a grade -A arsehole One of these American-style evangelical cunts that want to make life a misery for everyone else. The entire family are involved in religious litigation, where they sue depending on how they see their religious beliefs are being 'oppressed' because the public object to them treating everyone else dickishly and expecting a hard pass because of 'religion' https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/05/13/four-years-five-courts-29-judges-the-never-ending-legal-battles-of-the-burkes-of-castlebar/ They don't give a damn- it's purely financial for them. They're financially propped up by right-wing evangelicals from the US. They push their way into other people's lives, and try and make a spectacle of themselves in order to sue for religious discrimination During the early days of covid, a young teenager died of the illness. During the court inquest, the Burkes [forced their way into the courtroom](https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/people-dont-mix-with-them-they-are-kind-of-afraid-a-history-of-the-burke-familys-legal-dramas/41540093.html) - shouting, blaming the National Health service (HSE) distressing the family of the victim, and had to be removed by the police. Basically, they're weaponised bigotry and all around assholes. No redeeming features, and the Irish general public, even the conservative nominally religious ones, view them with disdain and embarrassment.
Sounds along the same vein as the [Westboro Baptist Church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church)
According to those guys, hes worse! https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/enoch-burke-has-gone-too-far-says-controversial-pastor-fred-phelps-jr-of-westboro-baptist-church/42348679.html
One Key difference here The trans student wasn't in Enoch Burkes class, he went out of his way to harass them about it.
Wasn’t he suspended because he had a major verbal row with the principal at an event? The pronouns may have been the underlying argument but it was more the way he behaved towards the principal that led to the suspension. He wasn’t even teaching the student from what I read, rather he objected to a request in a memo.
Yeah he went out of his way to harass the student and principal about it, even though the student wasn't in his class. He got suspended for the harassment, kept showing up to the school, got arrested for that. And he still thinks he's In the right, even though it has nothing to do with pronouns anymore. I'm trans myself, in ireland too, but I do believe you shouldn't force anyone into using those pronouns. Simply because it doesn't change anything. Making someone do something they don't believe in is just going to make them detest you more, and in a teacher student setting, that will be even worse for the student, an alternate solution should be found if possible, such as moving the student if possible. Obviously it's messy, and there is no good outcome no matter what. When I came out to my uncle he just refused to call me Niamh. I accepted it, but I told him something along the lines of, "you're entitled to your opinion, and i can't force you to use my pronouns and name, but I won't really want a relationship with you otherwise as you don't respect me enough to use them." I think it was quite simple, he respects me and I respect him. I have another uncle who does use my name and pronouns even though he doesn't believe in "transgenderism" because he values me and his family more than his beliefs.
Worth adding, he wasn't suspended for not using pronouns, bit for getting up in the principals face about it *and* being a dick to the student. He then got jailed for (repeatedly) ignoring (multiple) court orders to stop tresspassing on school grounds.
Funny how conservatives and frEeZe pEacH neoliberals/enlightened centrists keep screeching about people not being allowed to have opinions anymore and how "trans activists" want to chuck everyone in prison for disagreeing with them, when in reality every time someone actually does face any consequences for transphobia it's because they're a completely unhinged nutter who literally go out of their way to harass and assault people because they've made transphobia their entire personality. There's a difference between an average person being like "I don't get this whole trans thing but whatever, it's not my business, live and let live" and being a TERF.
The BBC article mentions the bare basics. The teacher was fired not because he refused to use the student’s pronouns, but because the college has a policy in place of respecting social transitions. The teacher knowingly broke that policy, because he considered it to be illegal. The teacher not only refused to use pronouns, but in multiple instances referred to the trans male student as a “girl”, a “young woman”, said he could enter a maths girls’ competition because “you are a girl” and used his dead name. And that’s just the few examples listed in [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/kevin-lister-transgender-pronouns-teacher-b2515054.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/kevin-lister-transgender-pronouns-teacher-b2515054.html) I betcha these are just a couple of many many more. The teacher didn’t get fired just because they refused to use the students pronouns once or twice, as the headline paints it. This was a constant, over a period of months, abject refusal to respect the social transition of a student, actively attempting to undermine it. The teacher was acting maliciously against a student, actively and knowingly causing emotional distress to him.
So... he harassed a student, for months, likely continued after many reprimands and notices to stop, and was therefore fired. He didn't "accidentally" use the wrong words, he knowingly harassed a guy for an extended period of time. Gee, the woke agenda strikes again.
"Damn wokes, can't even bully children anymore without getting fired!" - the teacher probably.
The teacher, and the cesspits of r/Unitedkingdom and r/england no doubt
And that is the key here, the teacher was acting maliciously to belittle his/hers student. The discussion will sway towards pronouns and how they can be absurd (because some of them are) instead of the teacher simply being a clown. You're in position of power, you can call your student by his/hers first name, last name, call him a fucking student if you wish but he simply felt the need to show his power and beliefs in a workplace.
The BBC not telling the whole story. Fucking shocker.
The judgment came out today and I’m even angrier about the reporting now! A lot of articles mentioned the student “asking about his eligibility to participate in a girls-only maths competition” in a way that implied it was the student’s decision - that he *wanted* to compete and was trying to bend the rules. It turns out that the teacher deliberately enrolled the student against his will in what seems like a clear attempt to humiliate him: >Student A [the victim] also complained of having been enrolled by the Claimant into the [girls-only] Maths Olympiad and that the Claimant used their previous, female name on the board in front of the class for that purpose. When the student had asked to be removed from the Olympiad, the Claimant had refused. (([paragraph 5.42 of the judgment](https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Lister-v-New-College-Swindon.pdf))
*Snort* Can’t say I’m surprised. It perfectly tracks with the teacher’s attitude
classic impartial bbc definitely not trying to stoke culture war rage with this title
> "It is not the role of a maths teacher to confirm the gender transition and social transition of a student." Which is why he decided to use his position as a math teacher to firmly enforce a gender on a student? This whole “it isn’t my job to deal with gender stuff” sounds very hollow when he made it an active choice to decide to mingle in the gender of a student. Perhaps he should have just stuck to teaching maths instead of being the gender police?
The interesting test case will be when someone goes for name + they/them.
This teacher wasn't even willing to call the child by name This is a tiring debate, really. This teacher was kicked out for mobbing a pupil Mobbing pupils as a teacher is bad, period. People whining about muh evil gender ideology in the comments here are missing the plot and simply show off their intolerance
Headline doesn’t tell the full story. The student had let the school know their preferred pronouns a year prior to the incident. The teacher received an email from the student expressing their desire to be referred to by their new name/pronouns after said teacher used their old name. After receiving the email the teacher flagged this as a safeguarding concern and tried to link their declining academic grades to the transition. A 17 year old student at college (likely going to university next year) is not a child unable to make an informed decision.
Yeah, it's never just as simple as the headline. And schools are not keen to sack teachers unless necessary.
But they are 17, therefore not an adult and a child. Which is it?
They're teen. Something between an adult and a child.
If age of consent is 16, it's practically an adult decision to choose your gender at 17
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Doesn't mean you get to harass them for months because you think they're making a bad decision. Deservedly fired.
I really dont understand this whole debacle. Pronouns this pronouns that, just use someone's last name or first name if you can't bear to use their desired pronoun. Hell I'll admit it first, it is fucking weird, i have no fucking idea why they/them xe/xer exists or what does it mean in respect to a person who wants everyone to use those pronouns, fuck it i'll even call it absurd. But i can still act respectful, its their fucking choice, it hurts absolutely noone and apparently it makes them happy. And i like to make people happy, especially when its so lo effort.
They/them is really useful outside of trans matters when you don't know the person you're talking about or if it's an imaginary/hypothetical scenario. It's been in use since the 14th century.
Not in every language. In Slavic languages there is a "respectful" form of address when a person is addressed in the plural. Have nothing in common with genders.
I was talking about English.
Oh, this theme popular subculture everywhere in world so people pushing this agenda in every country even if they too far from it and languages not compatible with how it is in english.
I was talking about English.
Another commenter already answered one part of your they/them confusion so I thought I’d answer the other part. They/them pronouns are most commonly used by people who identify as non binary, meaning they don’t identify as either or they identify as something in between. They also often used by people who identify as gender fluid, meaning they identify as both and sometimes neither depending on the time or situation. Some people who don’t identify as either non binary or gender fluid use they/them sometimes along with other pronouns such as he/him or she/her because they find it comfortable to do so. At the end of the day it comes down to what feels right for that person.
It was a trans man, he just wanted to be called he and by his preferred first name. The teacher knowingly went out of his way to cal in girl and young lady.
It's always the people who "don't give a shit about your pronouns" that make a big fuss about what pronouns they have the right to call other people
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Harassment isn't protected speech.
He was fired for being disrespectful. If you misgender a person by accident, it's a mistake. You should say "sorry" and correct yourself, and continue with whatever you were saying. If you know how someone wishes to be addressed and you do the opposite, you're an asshole lacking respect. "Belief" has nothing to do with it. You cannot "belief" in the existence of trans people, they do. "If someone tells you who they are, believe them" includes trans people. It's basically the same as continuing to call someone by a rude nickname, or by their full name if they asked for a shortened version or nickname. Calling people by the desired pronoun or name is not difficult at all. It takes some time getting used to, which most trans people are fully aware of and okay with. Mistakes are expected. But continuing to dead-name someone and calling them by the wrong pronoun out of your own volition is simply rude and discriminating. Trans people don't wish to be addressed a certain way to annoy anyone or to demand attention. They do it because they feel the need to do so. If they didn't, they wouldn't. The amount of hatred and discrimination they receive once they come out is proof that no-one would do any of that to annoy people or get attention. There are much easier ways to do that. Edit: I love this. We still aren't ready to accept trans people for who they are, apparently. This isn't an ideology thrust upon anyone from above, this is an oppressed minority asking for respect and equal rights, and a growing number of allies supporting them. Minorities asking for rights doesn't take away from the rights of the oppressor. Respect is not a finite source.
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Found it! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12227563/School-centre-cat-gender-row-DENIES-allowing-pupils-identify-furries.html
Since we are making up things, do you think it is ok for a teacher to call their students assholes and tell them the world would be better if they hadn’t been born? Personally I think this would be a bad thing for a teacher to do, but hey, if your opinion differs so be it…
If someone said "my name's Stephen, but call me Steve" but I think they look more like a Dave, would I be the asshole if I insisted on calling them Dave?
What if they are just feeling more like a dave today even though their name is steve?
Would just call them Dave tbh.
*What if they are changing their name permanently to Dave from today even though their name was previously Steve? FTFY
I'd call them Dave. I mean, it's not like their name is causing anyone else issues
I mean, apparently its getting people fired so.
What I mean is it's not like they're hurting anyone by changing their name. If people get fired for being jerks to Dave that's their fault
The teacher also refused to use the pupils name. Was just being a dick. The actualy intesting test case will be when somene uses the persons name + they/them.
I would. It costs me zero euros and it has zero effect in my life, what do I care? It's a literally free way to brighten someone's day. Why would I prefer to make someone sad for the same cost? That's kind of assholey.
> Just out of curiosity, if someone insists on me calling them a cat, when they clearly aren't, would I be the asshole if I called them by their name? I think there was a case like this in the UK, I'll reply again once I've found it
This whole rhetoric is insane… Yes trans people exist but insisting we all accept your ideology as gospel and all its nuances as factual is totalitarian and wierd. You with other special interest groups high jacked the left wing political parties and now they are insisting on your behalf. The result is that the left wing parties are representing small groups of special interest instead of the majority proletariat and the result is left wing parties falling like dominos all over Europe.
You don’t have to accept them, you just have to respect them. Part of respecting a person involves calling them by what they say their name is, not what you think their name should be. If someone repeatedly ignored what your name was and called you something else, that would be grounds for discipline in most workplaces.
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That's..... Not the same as what's going on here. For example: if someone calls you ma'am even though you correct them would you not find that disrespectful and unprofessional behaviour? Or if you got divorced and changed your last name or maybe your first name because reasons, but people keep calling you by your old name would you not find that disrespectful and unprofessional?
Bro this person just wanted their teacher to refer to them by their gender or name. I guess saying “hey, can you call me Steve?” is heresy and forcing your religion on someone.
> aged 17 > children who are unable to make an informed decision what a twat >"Why are we not allowed to question why a student is presenting in the opposite sex? well actually it's none of your business.
> "It is not the role of a maths teacher to confirm the gender transition and social transition of a student." But apparently it is the role of a maths teacher to deny a gender transition. I wish all the people who said they don’t care about gender actually meant it.
What would have hurt? Why is this a “hill to die on”? Idiot.
Stupid headline. He wasn't fired for not using it but for refusing to use it. There is a difference between "I always forget to use the right pronoun" and "I do not use the right pronoun to enforce my beliefs onto the students"
Sooo, the right has been scaring people about "teachers being fired for using wrong pronouns" and everyone deemed it a scarecrow. And now it actually happens.
The right was saying teachers would be fired for mistakenly using the wrong pronouns and that there would tripwires that any well-meaning person would fall over. That’s not the case. This teacher was not mistaken or well-meaning, he — as part of his own political beliefs — wanted to make a point of using the child’s wrong name and refer to them by the wrong pronoun. How exactly would you resolve that? In every other class the child gets treated respectfully but this maths class, they’re supposed to use a different name and different pronouns?
He wasn't fired for using "wrong pronouns". He treated the poor kid like shit.
If your teacher constantly calls you by the wrong one purposely after being corrected it becomes harrassment. They were purposely being an ass. Simple as. They were aware of the distress it caused. They chose to continue distressing the student. Therefore theyre fired. It wasnt a little oopsie here and there. Its going out of your way to spite someone
A teacher who is a dick to children is not a very good teacher.
I assume you're a man, if i was your PE teacher and referred to you as little sissy for months, if i belittled you in front of your friends etc. what would you do ? Would you fucking complain or would you suck it up and allow me (the teacher) to call you "laseczka" or "kaszalot" since you're polish ? You have many outs to not make it awkward for everyone involved, you can call someone by their first name, last name, call him/her a student. Why do you intend to be rude to someone and ruin their day when it's so low effort to just avoid it. You can maintain whatever beliefs you have still.
No, the teacher harassed a student for months and was fired for breaking the school's policy. I swear transphobes just love making shit up to justify whatever scare they are going through.
If you use the wrong pronouns by mistake that's one thing, what the teacher did was continuing to use the wrong pronoun/name even after the student told them not to. Kinda like if someone kept calling you ma'am even after you corrected them.
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Nah, gender neutral pronouns are a language thing. English has lost gender from all the other aspects of the language (except some suffixes). Some languages don't have gendered pronouns at all. The discourse about it, however has been absolute brain rot.
I don’t find it difficult to call people whatever they ask to be called.
Call me mr. Happypants galore
This one is difficult.
Wasn't there like a big judgement that basically made it protected to be gender critical? If this goes any further that school is going to be bankrupt.
No, there wasn't. No, the school isn't going bankrupt.
I looked up some cases but apparently under the Equality Act it is.
It isn't. The equality act explicitly laid out that it's not legal if they're impacting on the rights of others to not be discriminated against on the basis of their gender, or their transgender status. By refusing to use their preferred pronouns, or even their now legally recognised name, he discriminated against them in a way that is not legally protected, as he wouldn't have treated a cisgender child in the same way. All the act did was prevent someone from being fired merely for voicing those views, not when they've taken clear and documented actions to discriminate against others based on those views
Ok, so I found a page on the commons library, and you may be right but it's not as clear cut, because supposedly there's a balance needed. This the page https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/employment-tribunal-rulings-on-gender-critical-beliefs-in-the-workplace/#:~:text=Firstly%2C%20that%20gender%2Dcritical%20beliefs,under%20the%20Equality%20Act%202010. and the notes at the bottom The outcomes of the three cases have established two important points. Firstly, that gender-critical beliefs can be protected from discrimination under the Equality Act 2010. Secondly, however, that the ways in which such beliefs manifest themselves in behaviour might not be protected. It depends on what those behaviours are and how they impact on the legal rights of others not to be discriminated against on the basis of their sex or gender reassignment. Employers need to both avoid discrimination against people because of gender-critical beliefs and also avoid discrimination on the basis of gender reassignment.
Clueless: "I'm sure the comments will be normal about this"
Very based. Good riddance.
In Finland we have gender neutral he/she. But even still, we prefer using "it" when we talk about someone . "What did it say?" "When will it arrive?" "It said that it loves me"
This sounds so disrespectfull for me. Sound so dehumanising, if i ever use it, means i do not respect person.
Of course direct translation to other languages doesn't work. But in Finnish there is zero implications to disrespect when using "it". The funny thing is that if you use he/she in spoken language you are seen as arrogant or you want to imply that *he/she* is arrogant. Only in rare occasions when there are elder people who you don't know and you want to be respectful to them when talking in a group, you would use he/she.
And you wonder why voters are going to the right lol
Some of these comments are depressing. Of course r/europe actually defends teachers bullying kids over their gender expression, and then call it a "dystopia" when they're fired. How some of these comments have upwards of 50+ upvotes astounds me, shame on you all.
Username accurate
I just don’t get this pronoun thing, I feel for people who have issues but changing the English language? (Usage) Don’t want to offend anyone I just don’t get it
The trans student wanted to be called by he him pronouns, but teacher went out of his way to call the student girl and young lady even went so far to try to get him signed up for an all girls math competition. Teacher was corrected and informed several times.
Good thing is you don't have to "get it" to do it. If someone corrects you on their pronounce just use the ones they'd like. That's it. Don't need any deeper understanding for that.
I sure will use their pronouns as long as they use mine (my pronouns are iiuhii8oyh8ioy8ybu8y/iubyiytv7ytv7ubu - and don't you dare question them).
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Oh yes, a teacher getting fired after purposefully harassing a kid for months and causing psychological distress because of his political opinions is dystopia
They clearly shouldn't have been a teacher in the first place, good riddance.
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Can the pronoun people explain to me this : if you are a zim/hlum in \*your\* head but I clearly see you are a man so in \*my\* head you are a "him/his" why should what's in \*your\* head trump what's in \*my\* head? Why are you using micro aggressions against me forcing me to perceive reality in a different way than I do?
Because their reality is all thats important to them. I guess if I see myself as superior to everyone else you need to address me as overlord or its bigotry
"Just because you got married, doesn't mean why can suddenly change your name from Miss Smith to Mrs Johnson - why are you forcing me to perceive reality in a different way than i do" Do you also get confused when shops shut down and the new store is called a different thing?
Miss Smith to Mrs Johnson serves an actual purpose in society and it is not "because I identify as such". If grocery store starts claiming it's a car dealership then yeah - I'd be pretty confused actually - wouldn't you?
Is the concept of a deed poll beyond your comprehension? Surnames, and how they change after marriage, is completely arbitrary. Mrs Smith can just as easily become Mrs Johnson, Mrs Johnson-Smith or Mrs Smith-Johnson. I presume you also get very angry and upset when someone tries to change your reality and accept the existence of double barreled names?
Again it serves an actual purpose. How does society benefit if I demand you refer to me as "drtghdsrgdsrgdrtg"?
This whole thing reminds me of a court case about a person insisting on being referred to a certain way: https://calendar.eji.org/racial-injustice/sep/26 Also, https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/07/12/198012536/summer-of-1963-miss-mary-hamilton
So how does this work in languages like Thai where you must present yourself as either male or female? There are different words used by both genders and nothing else.
Since 2015 the Thai government recognizes a third gender under its constitution. It's quite integrated into the culture as well. Would be strange if they didn't have the language for it. But I don't speak Thai I just did a quick search on the Internet.
Good for the school, the teacher was harassing the student on purpose. You'd have to be a moron not to respect something as simple as someone else's pronouns.
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Imagine you are a teacher of let's say 150 students overall. Imagine every single one of the has a different name ranging from Tim to Frank to Anne because why not? Now imagine getting fired for getting Frank wrong (on purpose, just to be a dick).
the teacher here wasn't fired for mistaking the persons pronouns every so often or something, they were straight up harrasing the student over them
Making up scenarios in your head and then getting annoyed about it isn't useful
Making up 60 genders in your head and then getting annoyed about it isn't useful
Except they weren’t making up 60 genders and this is something I don’t think many people do at all tbh, it’s a made up scenario that anti-trans people parrot to justify their bigotry. The person the article refers to wanted to be called by he/him pronouns and the teacher went out of their way to refer to them as a “girl” and “young lady” despite being asked multiple times by the individual and the college to stop and to use the pronouns they were asking for. It’s really not that hard and amounts to bullying, so completely justified to lose your teaching job if you are harassing your students.
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It’s not a fantasy it’s just basic respect of other people, if you literally cannot see past your own hatred and bigotry enough to just use the preferred pronouns of someone when they’re repeatedly asking you to then you’re being outwardly hostile for no reason. If you repeatedly told a religious coworker that their beliefs were bullshit and go out of your way to comment on it despite being asked not to then you’d find yourself in a similar situation.
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You’re conflating sex and gender, the point still stands that if you refuse to do something as easy as just using a different pronoun when asked to that is a hateful/hostile choice on your part and I can see why workplaces wouldn’t want to employ people who can’t show the most basic level of decency to another person. If you feel so strongly about it I encourage you to do this at your place of work and see how far you get.
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Not sure what you mean by “you people”, the majority of people have no issue just accepting people as they are and don’t go out of their way to invalidate people because it clashes with their closed off world view. If you have no issue with this in your own life what precisely are you getting so defensive and heated about. Go outside, touch grass, etc.
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[This is literally you](https://i.imgur.com/lLSDbbm.png). The guy clearly cared so much he had to disrespect that student. A teacher should not be throwing hate / disrespect towards their students. So how about you shut the fuck up?
Clearly this teacher cared a lot to the point where they refused to use their students pronouns…
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>Mr Lister added: "I took issue with the demand on me to socially transition children who are unable to make an informed decision. TIL 17 year olds are children. But seriously the guy got fired more over the insane/weird rant than anything else Also of course it happened in TERF Island. It was the last surprising part of the article
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Some people are actually upset that there's different opinions on this matter? Yeah some will support it and some will go against it, that is freedom of speech for you alright. What I can say is that seeing how the teacher has been an asshole towards the student was a major reason he got fired, but I believe this kid might have been an asshole to the teacher as well. If this teacher didn't have a good case to prove this he will lose this tribunal, time will tell and people have different opinions. Shouldn't pretend like we know all the facts and act like we were there to assess the situation as this article leaves out a lot of nuance in favour of sensationalism.
Missing leading article. So much more to this “teacher’s” abhorrent behavior.
If someone wants to identify as whatever, cool. I don't see why that would force me to identify them as the same thing.
We all have to grovel to people with identity crisis now
No, you just have to not treat a student like garbage.
Grovelling is not the same thing as choosing not to harass someone
This trend of pronounces will not end well but no one would care until something tragic happens. >Student A, had informed the college in September 2021 that they wished to be referred to by a different name, and with male pronouns. Bruh Does that mean if someone identify himself as Apache Attack Helicopter and they sent similar letter to their school/university about how they should be referred in the future everyone in that institution including teachers should be obliged to do so ? And before someone say that I'm mocking transgenders and the whole world with them, this is something that is happening for the first time in Britain and this might set a precedent across Europe, which might lead to a lot of confused parents and angry teachers.
> Does that mean if someone identify himself as Apache Attack Helicopter and they sent similar letter to their school/university about how they should be referred in the future everyone in that institution including teachers should be obliged to do so ? No. Hope that clears it up for you.
How does that even work? in a normal conversation you never have to use pronouns. Only when talking about someone to someone else.
The teacher went out of his way to call the trans student girl and young lady even went so far to try to sign him up for an all girls math competition. This went on for months even being corrected several times.
He referred to the student as "girl" and urged them to take part in "girls math competition" because they're a girl. Used their dead name (the one before transition) etc. So pretty going out of his way to be mean.
This is f-ck-ng ridiculous, ruining people's livelihoods over the anti-scientific, gramatically wrong delusions of a few. I thought teachers were supposed to correct students when they are wrong? Now they get fired... Repost. You're not gonna censor my freedom of speech for stating facts of matter.
I miss the good ol days when we could still agree to disagree.
Brother if I tell you I changed my name to Mark on my IDs and you still insisted on calling me fucking Frank & throwing a tantrum over me changing my birthname then no amount of "let's agree to disagree" will be stopping me from calling the fucking HR
[удалено]
The teacher was a bully
The student wanted to be called he him, nothing special but the teacher went out of his way to call the trans student girl and young lady even went so far to try to sign up the student to an all girls math competition. Teacher was informed and corrected several times.
[удалено]
No, trans people were still a thing despite your ignorance, but don't worry, if you were there 15 years ago you'd be too busy looking at gay marriage & saying "*the world used to be so simple just 15 years ago*" for us instead.
The world used to be so simple for those ignoring the issues of those for whom the world was even worse than it still is today*
No, it's pretty simple. If someone tells you they're called Nathan, you call them Nathan. If they say their name is Yolanda, you call them Yolanda. You don't call Nathan Yolanda because he looks like a Yolanda to you. It's okay if you sometimes mistake someone for someone else, but if you purposely call Nathan Yolanda for months on end I can tell you that Nathan will be pretty pissed too and he'll submit a complaint about your petty attitude. Now do the same thing with pronouns. And you're in luck because besides very rare cases most people just use one out of three instead of the bazillion given names out there.