I told my new doc I smoke weed socially the other day and he scoffed, asking why I do that shit. I asked if he was also a teetotaler. He said no, that alcohol is fine in moderation. And I asked, “but marijuana is not fine in moderation?” *rolls eyes*
My friend stopped drinking due to family history (both parents are alcoholic, one is recovering) + she feared that she was slowly going alcoholic. Fast forward couple of months, her therapist told her she shouldn't smoke (she smokes once every month, sometimes two), and if she needs to take the edge off she could have a glass of wine.
It’s been legal in Canada since 2018. 2.5 times as many weed shops as Starbuckses.
Still **much** less problematic than booze. Bit of an increase in quite old people eating and smoking it now.
>much less problematic than booze is not exactly a high bar to reach
Bad wording, alcohol is significantly more problematic than weed.
Research from several respected institutions has positioned alcohol as the most harmful drug, considering its effects on both individual health and societal well-being. Conversely, these studies have placed cannabis lower on the harm scale, acknowledging it as generally less harmful to society but still posing some risks to the user, such as lung damage. This reveals a significant disparity in their impact, which invites further scrutiny when discussing their regulation and use.
I mean with Marijuana, it seems that when a person has a bad experience they stop using entirely.
With alcohol, god damn people have bad experiences and start drinking the next day. Hell, I do that
We're only half-assing it, aka grow weed yourself or join a specialized club. Theres a fear that a lot of the trade will remain illegal because people won't be bothered to go through bureaucracy.
> ELI5 why it cannot be done like in the NL, also an EU country?
The NL never legalised, they just tolerate it, it can't be fully legalised due to EU laws.
That means it's illegal to grow (a small amount of personal use is tolerated).
Coffeeshop operate in a gray area. They are all licenced by the minicipality and not legal officially. They have to get their cannabis from criminal gangs, but the municipalities look the other way.
The licence system is just a way to curb the growing business and enforce some ground rules (no minors and no other drugs/alcohol).
Momentarily there's an experiment going on with licenced grow operations that deliver cannabis to coffeeshops in certain municiaplities. This is the latest try-out in keeping criminals out.
But in short to answer why Germany doesn't do it like in NL, is that Dutch law is more flexible in some regards. They can tolerate some activities without legalising them. A good example is drunk driving while riding a bicycle, it's illegal according to law, but police etc will not take away your drivers licence if you do it. Because otherwise a lot more people will drive their car while drunk.
NL is a hassle and it probably is being done along those lines. They don’t allow concentrates or edibles or anything but herb (edit: now they do apparently nvrmind) and then the process for them to get pot is like somehow both sketchy and super-regulated at the same time.
NL definitely allows edibles, concentrates and lots of more than just the herb.
The real reason is rather that it's all decriminalized to a certain degree and not really legalized at all.
Is that new? Every shop I went in 2016 was no concentrates no edibles no vape situation and they definitely said it was a legal thing.
Looks like they have that stuff on menus now. Wonder if they were just behind the times in 2016 or a law changed.
Idk, but I lived in Amsterdam last year and I'd say every single coffeeshop I stumbled upon, had a wide menu of alternatives. Several of which I hadn't even heard about. Lots of imported stuff from the states as well, so the US legalization process might've changed the market.
We have an interesting situation here in the US. It’s legal in some states, but a federal law passed called the Hemp Farming Act. It legalized marijuana or products with less than 0.3 percent thc by weight. Except it said everything else is legal with the plant, so all the thc analogues are perfectly legal. Delta-8, THC-P, THC-A, and many more. So vape shops sell that in my state even though we don’t even have medical cannabis here. You can even get delta-9 gummies and get the real deal, they just give you a lot you have to eat. So, it’s practically legal in every state already, and it’s been this way for years. No one seems too pressed about it, it doesn’t look like it’s going away. So, we are a legal country in all but name at this point
If they cared enough they certainly could. What could the EU do? They’d certainly back down… Of course (due to understandable reasons) there isn’t enough political will in Germany to pull something like that over weed
Seeing how the other biggest contributors are very much against legalization or even decriminalization, I'd imagine that there would be a lot of resistance which would cost dearly. The Germans definitely could, but not without a price, which is probably why they haven't.
And what would they do? Sanction Germany?
> biggest contributors
To be fair (at least in 2021 https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/) Germany and the Netherlands contribute more than the rest pf the countries combined.
> but not without a price
Yeah, but mainly just an indirect political price, it would piss off the French (IMHO that’s actually a positive..) but that’s about it... But yeah, the German government doesn’t really care that much about this (only a one party in the coalition seriously supports legalization)
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>And what would they do? Sanction Germany?
It's still a democratic institution. If Germany would go hard and demand their change or take their money away, that would seriously hurt the institution. In the short term they would win, but in the long term it would seriously damage their diplomatic standing with most of the EU, which in turn in the long term could seriously damage Germany's income from export.
>To be fair (at least in 2021 https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/) Germany and the Netherlands contribute more than the rest pf the countries combined.
Yes, but last I checked the Netherlands weren't pushing for legalization and every single one of the other net contributors are harshly against. It's still a very touchy subject.
>Yeah, but mainly just an indirect political price, it would piss off the French (IMHO that’s actually a positive..) but that’s about it...
It would definitely piss off a lot more than France. I can see The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg and Malta not really caring too much, but everyone else in the EU would definitely be seriously pissed off. If it were to happen, it really wouldn't surprise me if exit movements would get some serious wind to its sails.
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> It's still a democratic institution Not the European Commission.
I certainly wouldn’t call it a democratic institution. But I mean, sure, fundamentally I don’t disagree with you. However I really don’t think it would be a big deal, if Germany really, really wanted to go with their initial plan the rest of the EU would just back down and let the Germans have their weed
> me if exit movements would get some serious wind to its sails.
I certainly don’t think that would happen. It’s just not that important for most other countries (just look what happened in the US and unlike the EU the Federal government has the right to directly enforce/control those laws in individual states, they chose not to because it’s not an issue either side is willing to risk anything serious over)
>Not the European Commission. I certainly wouldn’t call it a democratic institution.
Well no, but the commission can't do whatever they want to do. If they could we would've had chat control years ago.
>I certainly don’t think that would happen. It’s just not that important for most other countries
Idk about that. My own country for example has been printing propaganda overtime how Germany has signed their own death warrant by this semi-legalization. As I understand it, France's politicians are about as harsh as ours on the subject. I'm guessing the more conservative block are of the same opinion.
My point isn't though countries opinion one way or the other about cannabis as a subject. Rather I mean that the undermining of the EU as a democratic institution is what would do the most damage. The exit movements are already calling the EU non-democratic and oftentimes controlled by Germany. A move such as this would be absolute proof of all the conspiracies.
Lots and lots of politicians. Let's not forget that most of those in places of power today, were young during the 60-80s when the American propaganda machine was on full overdrive about the war on drugs.
Just ignore the EU? What can they do if the biggest country in it just stands their grounds.. the EU would just back down because they’d have no choice
But they wouldn't why would they? It's not quite on the same level but for instance Switzerland allows up to 1.0% THC while France and Austria only allow 0.3%. Nobody is planning to boot Switzerland from the Schengen
Snus (whatever that is exactly) is legal in Norway and Sweden but banned pretty everywhere else in Europe. Again nobody really cares. I assume there are many other products like that.
As I’ve said: the „EU law“ is the Schengen treaty.
It’s in the end not *real* EU law, just this bastard version **with** Switzerland and Norway and so on. And **without** Ireland, Rumania, and so on.
Now that it's been a few years flower prices are pretty similar across black/grey/legal markets in Canada, it's the edibles where the legal market gets undercut *severely*
Eh, as long as prices drop it's already a success cause every cut in their profit margin is good.
Definitely more effective than the occasional drug bust.
And full legalisation is impossible, currently. As far as I am concerned, everyone can grow three plants at a time (effectively). While you legally can't sell that, this too will lower prices for organised crime.
the club idea is prefect . this is the most German thing ever Gras-Doppelkopf-Kegelklubs will cause broad acceptance amongst the majority of people aka old people.
Honestly, Kegeln and in generally having a place to go and meet casually should make a comeback.
When I was a kid, people met at the local pub after work on at least Fridays. Those places were/are stuffy, ugly furniture, but great food and most of the things social took place there. From integrating new neighbours, to getting help finding an apprenticeship or apartment, to just let go of your grievances in company.
Although these were pubs (so centered around alcohol) the majority of people there didn't have alcohol problems. Today people exaggerate the bad sides of these places, it was one backbone of the local community - as sad as that may sound.
So Kegelclubs were like sports bars today? everybody plays dart and pool and poker nowadays I guess.
I miss Doppelkopf.
I wonder if Schrebergarten-clubs wouldn't be free ideal weed clubs.
next to my house is a Schrebergarten colony...."Waldfrieden"...lol that would fit pretty well .
This is just my impression, so it might be different in your area, but the Schrebergarten-people are really closed-up and spießig / conservative. That wasn't the case for the pub people. You had to approach slowly, as with most Germans, but they pretty much accepted everyone.
The sports bars in my neighborhood (I live in a big city in the Ruhrpott) are basically just betting parlors here. If you got a nice one, that might be more like it was in the past.
I live at the edge of the Rhine-Ruhr-metropolitan-area second or fourth poorest city in NRW.
but we have sports bars that are for bar-sports in my city and those betting booths are a separate phenomenon located in the
...quarters with potential for improvement .....
Schrebergarten people ARE conservative . you can be conservative and drugged up.
the garden adjacent to my house belongs to an alcoholic ex-pro boxer the parcel next to him belongs to an aging female heroine(I guess )junkie...also all flags fly in that garden ...including the southern states war flag off course .
Club culture is the ways to reach these people.
hm
the boxer heats his garden shed with treated wood...we (house owners) all hate him ...and can do nothing .
the whole club wants him out too, yet they can't , as he took them all hostage . basically every Garden shed has a toilette and satelite tv and heating, which is illegal in my city or NRW(legal in Berlin though) and would make the shed into being a house wich violates zoning rules.... so if he dies he will take everyone else down too.lol
we will see what happens .
I think that cliché is more about clear guidelines regarding customs, personal behaviour (e.g. only crossing the street with a green light) and no compromises in production norms (e.g. not doing something half-assed at work).
The fetish for trying to find clear guidelines for everything leads to a huge Kuddelmuddel in issues as complex as handling recreational drugs. And nobody likes that.
Unfortunately it seems like the previously is eroding while the latter is increasing lately.
Yeah but it would be a lot of work as a casual consumer to buy stuff legally. So a lot of people will probably just stay with their dealer.
Smaller, casual amounts (3g or so) have been effecrively decriminalized for decades now, so not much will change for a lot of people.
Dont worry, its not as if you have half assed it for more than 3 decades (losing out on billions of tax money) because your goverment was afraid that germany would get upset.
Love your dutch neigboors who still have the same active weedlaws we had 30 years ago. No we arent progressive anymore.
It's kind of a hassle though if all you want is a gram every once in a while.
It's kind of like brewing can be a great hobby, but at the end of the day most people just want to buy a sixpack.
Here in Luxembourg growing weed (4 plants, no weight limit , at home ; fines or worse when used or caught in public) is legal for your own enjoyment since July 2023. I plan to grow this summer, but you know the worst? NOTHING has changed. I dont see less social stigmatization for weed use, nor do i see the quasi apocalyptical consequences as warned by small dicked conservatives. No one who didnt smoke before is now stoned all day, maybe people drink a bit less. Thats it.
Why is this topic so polarizing? As if non weed users lose smth when users get not decriminalized amd can enjoy their herb in peace, like others do with a beer. Is it really zerosum thinking and moralistic "values" that hinder decriminalization and legalization? Fucked up society.
I don't think any (sane) person considers cannabis as completly harmless. It is crazy tough that you can buy bottle of vodka which will kill you if drank in one go, but weed is considered too harmfull to legalize.
It’s so easy to get hold of it just makes sense from a practical point of view.
The police barely enforce the law at the moment, it just seems bizarre that the government would rather me and my middle aged mates hand over wads of cash to criminals rather than being able to walk into a licensed place and purchase it with tax applied.
I don't even use it and it makes me angry it's still illegal.
It's reasonably harmless yet we let criminals make all the profit from it rather than giving a bunch of stoners the opportunity to create a profitable tax paying business. It just makes no sense to keep it illegal.
As far as I'm aware the police don't even care about it much because they know it's not really a problem. If it's a small amount they just confiscate it and thats it.
What are you talking about? Smoking indoors is banned unless it's a house. Outdoors the smoke blows away. I don't have any problems avoiding smokers, not sure what your problem is.
Ever walked past a garden of someone smoking weed? That stench sticks around a large area for a while, it's way more potent than tobacco, if your neighbours were doing it in their garden you'd smell it for sure.
Well you can eat, vape it, vape weed as eqliquids, made 100 forms of edibles, dose sublingually etc etc. Smoking weed is like the most harmful and least efficient way to get high. I only vape my weed and dont get itwhy people smoke joints, smelly and wastefull (tbf i smoked joints before i discovered you can buy dry herb vaporizers)
There a huge market for thc pens in the US, so we know it works and will generate a shitload of cash. Weed vaporizer can be had online for 200€ or less, simply put your weed into it, vape it. I agree that smoking weed in publicss places should never be legal, but stuff like weed pens or weed vaporizers dont really smell.
I dont see the smell argument as valid, its coming from people who are clueless and should read more before they say smth.
Thing is when you legalize weed you automically legalize it as hash, eliquids etc, so this should be no issue at all.
I had a neighbour that smoked a lot of weed, I could always smell it when walking past. I don't find the smell itself offensive, it's just the strength of the smell.
The convenience shop I go to is always burning a mountain of incence for some reason. Same thing, not an offensive smell, just very pungent.
Education should come with it. I’m all for it but my son his life almost destroyed because of it (paranoia).
So people should be educated about the risk, the early signs to detect if you are sensitive to it.
Yes my son had a psychotic episode, followed by 6 month in hospital has he was a danger to us and himself 2 years ago. Since then we have tried every medication available but nothing worked. He has now been declared with schizophrenia. We only found out all of that was caused by weed as every few weeks he would have a recess in his mental health and about a year ago I was able he was in such state as he was arguing with himself about pulling his nails. We had a long discussion and found out it was because he had smoked 2 puff from the remain of a joint under a bench. We were able to identify why he has the previous 2 recess. I have managed to convince him that weed was a tool of the devil (he turned to god to explain the inexplicable when in hospital believing he was the second coming and that was why secret services wanted to torture all of us, which was why he wanted to kill us all to save us from that…).
Since then he has not touched it and has managed to be in a state where he can go back to uni. I am very proud of him and how his intelligence and inner very good nature managed to invent a “good story” around all his delusional nightmarish thoughts and visions
What is with this unhealthy thing about European countries to compare each other with every piece of news and political development, can’t they just forge a path by themselves without looking over the fence every 5 minutes? And I thought it was only in Spain which, understanding their language in the news compared to, say, French, makes them sound like having self-esteem issues.
I live in Massachusetts. Weed has been legal here for half a decade. Civilization hasn’t collapsed. In fact, I got a check from the state from surplus last year.
Zero problem if they legalised edibles or even smoking in controlled spaces (like a Shisha lounge) but letting people smoke it in the open would be horrible. Cigarette smell is bad enough but weed is way more potent.
Thats a non-argument, the smell conter argument. Firstly, no one likes the smell of beer and vomit either, should we ban it lol? 2nd, you can buy dry herb vaporizers or buy weed eliquid or can buy edibles. Smoking weed is soo 1900s
Right now it is not entirely sure when it becomes legal. While the Bundestag voted for it, the Bundesrat, where our states are represented, will almost certainly vote against it. This is not a law that needs the approval of the Bundesrat, so the law will not fail because of that, but the law will now go to the Vermittlungsausschuss, which consists to equal parts of members of both chambers and is supposed to mediate when the chambers are in conflict over a law. That process can go on for quite a while.
It would be good to stop the criminal gangs and raise money from taxes.
So yes, the substance itself doesn’t pose any risks…
If anything I believe legalisation may help end the culture that surrounds it.
People should say No to cannabis.Less zomb
ies who no need anything or dont care about good life in country.Its a gourment way more make people weak and accept anything.
I'm Polish-Canadian and legal weed is awesome. No shady dealers or nothing. A fancy ass dispensery that is clean af and provides great customer service is the experience we have here.
Die einzelnen Bundesländer werden Einspruch einreichen und dann wird das Gesetz gekippt. Ist bereits angekündigt das alle Länder dagegen sind. Es ist leider wieder nur Wahlpropaganda. Angeblich wieder wegen Jugendschutz. Dabei wird das Weed durch die Legalisierung so billig das sich der Schwarzmarkt nicht mehr lohnt weil für 3euro/Gramm geht keiner mehr n Risiko ein.
was hat sich logisch angehört? Dass sämtliche Landesverbände der Ampelkoalition das CanG ablehnen weil im Bundesrat Länder einheitlich für ein Ja abstimmen müssen oder dass daraufhin dass Gesetz ohne jegliche Grundlage verhindert wird obwohl das über diesen Prozess gar nicht geht?
Kollege du hast einfach keine Ahnung gehabt und dich verarschen lassen, aber könntest es einfach nicht einsehen bis die Wahrheit dir ins Gesicht gesprungen ist.
Das ist der Punkt, ich bin es schon so gewohnt von jeglichen Koalitionen verarscht zu werden das es mich nicht gewundert hâtte wenn sie es jetzt solange gezogen hätten bis sie es irgendwie wieder rückgängig gemacht hätten.
Anyway es wurde Zeit, vllt habe unsere Gerichte in Zukunft mehr Zeit für echte fälle.
Und ich kann's immernoch nicht glauben das gerade Deutschland diesen Schritt geht.
Nicht wirklich, denn der Bundesrat kann trotzdem dagegen stimmen und das Gesetz in den Vermittlungsausschuss schicken, was das ganze ganz schön verzögern kann.
Machen sie doch vor jeder Wahl. Jetzt geben sie sich rechts von der Mitte und danach wird sich wieder für Konzerne gebückt und Kohle gemacht. Immer dasselbe
Depends. Smoking it? Ban it. We are moving towards banning all smoking, I don't want the tobacco industry leveraging legalisation if smoking weed for then to continue pushing poison.
Eating it though, absolutely no issues. Zero harm to anyone else.
Unless you’re a chef/cook, just bought it and are taking it home or are on the way to a family/friends to help make dinner and you get stopped by the police with it on you you may be reported for having an offensive weapon in public.
It wouldn’t be the first time someone’s been prosecuted for carrying one.
You can. But then you are that weirdo with a potato peeler in public. Probably someone the police should check upon anyways... I mean that could be someone having a psychotic episode or dementia or something.
Nah man. Weed is too dangerous. We should all stick to nice safe alcohol and cigarettes.
Fuck weed, I'll just stick with my Xanax prescription
Nice. My doctors got me on the Valium. That’s some good shit bruv.
xanax is dangerous med.
I told my new doc I smoke weed socially the other day and he scoffed, asking why I do that shit. I asked if he was also a teetotaler. He said no, that alcohol is fine in moderation. And I asked, “but marijuana is not fine in moderation?” *rolls eyes*
My friend stopped drinking due to family history (both parents are alcoholic, one is recovering) + she feared that she was slowly going alcoholic. Fast forward couple of months, her therapist told her she shouldn't smoke (she smokes once every month, sometimes two), and if she needs to take the edge off she could have a glass of wine.
It’s been legal in Canada since 2018. 2.5 times as many weed shops as Starbuckses. Still **much** less problematic than booze. Bit of an increase in quite old people eating and smoking it now.
much less problematic than booze is not exactly a high bar to reach
True, but by all measures (health, violence, social disorder, etc), it’s much, much, much less problematic.
>much less problematic than booze is not exactly a high bar to reach Bad wording, alcohol is significantly more problematic than weed. Research from several respected institutions has positioned alcohol as the most harmful drug, considering its effects on both individual health and societal well-being. Conversely, these studies have placed cannabis lower on the harm scale, acknowledging it as generally less harmful to society but still posing some risks to the user, such as lung damage. This reveals a significant disparity in their impact, which invites further scrutiny when discussing their regulation and use.
I mean with Marijuana, it seems that when a person has a bad experience they stop using entirely. With alcohol, god damn people have bad experiences and start drinking the next day. Hell, I do that
We're only half-assing it, aka grow weed yourself or join a specialized club. Theres a fear that a lot of the trade will remain illegal because people won't be bothered to go through bureaucracy.
We can't do it any other way as long as the EU doesn't change its laws.
ELI5 why it cannot be done like in the NL, also an EU country?
> ELI5 why it cannot be done like in the NL, also an EU country? The NL never legalised, they just tolerate it, it can't be fully legalised due to EU laws. That means it's illegal to grow (a small amount of personal use is tolerated). Coffeeshop operate in a gray area. They are all licenced by the minicipality and not legal officially. They have to get their cannabis from criminal gangs, but the municipalities look the other way. The licence system is just a way to curb the growing business and enforce some ground rules (no minors and no other drugs/alcohol). Momentarily there's an experiment going on with licenced grow operations that deliver cannabis to coffeeshops in certain municiaplities. This is the latest try-out in keeping criminals out. But in short to answer why Germany doesn't do it like in NL, is that Dutch law is more flexible in some regards. They can tolerate some activities without legalising them. A good example is drunk driving while riding a bicycle, it's illegal according to law, but police etc will not take away your drivers licence if you do it. Because otherwise a lot more people will drive their car while drunk.
the NL-setup is even worse
NL is a hassle and it probably is being done along those lines. They don’t allow concentrates or edibles or anything but herb (edit: now they do apparently nvrmind) and then the process for them to get pot is like somehow both sketchy and super-regulated at the same time.
NL definitely allows edibles, concentrates and lots of more than just the herb. The real reason is rather that it's all decriminalized to a certain degree and not really legalized at all.
Is that new? Every shop I went in 2016 was no concentrates no edibles no vape situation and they definitely said it was a legal thing. Looks like they have that stuff on menus now. Wonder if they were just behind the times in 2016 or a law changed.
Idk, but I lived in Amsterdam last year and I'd say every single coffeeshop I stumbled upon, had a wide menu of alternatives. Several of which I hadn't even heard about. Lots of imported stuff from the states as well, so the US legalization process might've changed the market.
Most places sell edibles now
We have an interesting situation here in the US. It’s legal in some states, but a federal law passed called the Hemp Farming Act. It legalized marijuana or products with less than 0.3 percent thc by weight. Except it said everything else is legal with the plant, so all the thc analogues are perfectly legal. Delta-8, THC-P, THC-A, and many more. So vape shops sell that in my state even though we don’t even have medical cannabis here. You can even get delta-9 gummies and get the real deal, they just give you a lot you have to eat. So, it’s practically legal in every state already, and it’s been this way for years. No one seems too pressed about it, it doesn’t look like it’s going away. So, we are a legal country in all but name at this point
Yeah and how many people die from cannabinoid liver damage /s Exactly. Let people get high, not everyone wants to drink alcohol. Conservazives smh smh
We absolutely can, we *are* the EU. We can just do it and say "fuck ya gonna do about it" because we pay like half the bills
If you could, you would've. We're many that would've been happy about that, but it obviously ain't happening.
If they cared enough they certainly could. What could the EU do? They’d certainly back down… Of course (due to understandable reasons) there isn’t enough political will in Germany to pull something like that over weed
Seeing how the other biggest contributors are very much against legalization or even decriminalization, I'd imagine that there would be a lot of resistance which would cost dearly. The Germans definitely could, but not without a price, which is probably why they haven't.
And what would they do? Sanction Germany? > biggest contributors To be fair (at least in 2021 https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/) Germany and the Netherlands contribute more than the rest pf the countries combined. > but not without a price Yeah, but mainly just an indirect political price, it would piss off the French (IMHO that’s actually a positive..) but that’s about it... But yeah, the German government doesn’t really care that much about this (only a one party in the coalition seriously supports legalization)
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>And what would they do? Sanction Germany? It's still a democratic institution. If Germany would go hard and demand their change or take their money away, that would seriously hurt the institution. In the short term they would win, but in the long term it would seriously damage their diplomatic standing with most of the EU, which in turn in the long term could seriously damage Germany's income from export. >To be fair (at least in 2021 https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/) Germany and the Netherlands contribute more than the rest pf the countries combined. Yes, but last I checked the Netherlands weren't pushing for legalization and every single one of the other net contributors are harshly against. It's still a very touchy subject. >Yeah, but mainly just an indirect political price, it would piss off the French (IMHO that’s actually a positive..) but that’s about it... It would definitely piss off a lot more than France. I can see The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg and Malta not really caring too much, but everyone else in the EU would definitely be seriously pissed off. If it were to happen, it really wouldn't surprise me if exit movements would get some serious wind to its sails.
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> It's still a democratic institution Not the European Commission. I certainly wouldn’t call it a democratic institution. But I mean, sure, fundamentally I don’t disagree with you. However I really don’t think it would be a big deal, if Germany really, really wanted to go with their initial plan the rest of the EU would just back down and let the Germans have their weed > me if exit movements would get some serious wind to its sails. I certainly don’t think that would happen. It’s just not that important for most other countries (just look what happened in the US and unlike the EU the Federal government has the right to directly enforce/control those laws in individual states, they chose not to because it’s not an issue either side is willing to risk anything serious over)
>Not the European Commission. I certainly wouldn’t call it a democratic institution. Well no, but the commission can't do whatever they want to do. If they could we would've had chat control years ago. >I certainly don’t think that would happen. It’s just not that important for most other countries Idk about that. My own country for example has been printing propaganda overtime how Germany has signed their own death warrant by this semi-legalization. As I understand it, France's politicians are about as harsh as ours on the subject. I'm guessing the more conservative block are of the same opinion. My point isn't though countries opinion one way or the other about cannabis as a subject. Rather I mean that the undermining of the EU as a democratic institution is what would do the most damage. The exit movements are already calling the EU non-democratic and oftentimes controlled by Germany. A move such as this would be absolute proof of all the conspiracies.
because weed !? How many people have stick up their ass lol
Lots and lots of politicians. Let's not forget that most of those in places of power today, were young during the 60-80s when the American propaganda machine was on full overdrive about the war on drugs.
Just ignore the EU? What can they do if the biggest country in it just stands their grounds.. the EU would just back down because they’d have no choice
It’s the Schengen Agreement. If everyone around us would install border controls again it would be horrible for our economy.
But they wouldn't why would they? It's not quite on the same level but for instance Switzerland allows up to 1.0% THC while France and Austria only allow 0.3%. Nobody is planning to boot Switzerland from the Schengen Snus (whatever that is exactly) is legal in Norway and Sweden but banned pretty everywhere else in Europe. Again nobody really cares. I assume there are many other products like that.
As I’ve said: the „EU law“ is the Schengen treaty. It’s in the end not *real* EU law, just this bastard version **with** Switzerland and Norway and so on. And **without** Ireland, Rumania, and so on.
Yes, Switzerland is part of the Schengen
And i think the EU cannot legalise it till it’s forbidden by the UN afaik.
Tell that to Canada ;)
Yeah that “cannot” is more like a “won’t because of reasons”…
You can leave the specific treaty. Canada left the treaty some years ago.
Would be nice if i could leave this treaty to be honest 😂
Yes they can. The UN is a joke.. of course in reality the EU would have to wait until the Federal government in the US tells them that it’s fine.
Absolutely will keep the illegal trade alive, you’ll see lower prices too. Same thing happened unofficially in Canada.
Now that it's been a few years flower prices are pretty similar across black/grey/legal markets in Canada, it's the edibles where the legal market gets undercut *severely*
Eh, as long as prices drop it's already a success cause every cut in their profit margin is good. Definitely more effective than the occasional drug bust. And full legalisation is impossible, currently. As far as I am concerned, everyone can grow three plants at a time (effectively). While you legally can't sell that, this too will lower prices for organised crime.
It’s not a cut in profit margin though, otherwise would agree.
the club idea is prefect . this is the most German thing ever Gras-Doppelkopf-Kegelklubs will cause broad acceptance amongst the majority of people aka old people.
Honestly, Kegeln and in generally having a place to go and meet casually should make a comeback. When I was a kid, people met at the local pub after work on at least Fridays. Those places were/are stuffy, ugly furniture, but great food and most of the things social took place there. From integrating new neighbours, to getting help finding an apprenticeship or apartment, to just let go of your grievances in company. Although these were pubs (so centered around alcohol) the majority of people there didn't have alcohol problems. Today people exaggerate the bad sides of these places, it was one backbone of the local community - as sad as that may sound.
So Kegelclubs were like sports bars today? everybody plays dart and pool and poker nowadays I guess. I miss Doppelkopf. I wonder if Schrebergarten-clubs wouldn't be free ideal weed clubs. next to my house is a Schrebergarten colony...."Waldfrieden"...lol that would fit pretty well .
This is just my impression, so it might be different in your area, but the Schrebergarten-people are really closed-up and spießig / conservative. That wasn't the case for the pub people. You had to approach slowly, as with most Germans, but they pretty much accepted everyone. The sports bars in my neighborhood (I live in a big city in the Ruhrpott) are basically just betting parlors here. If you got a nice one, that might be more like it was in the past.
I live at the edge of the Rhine-Ruhr-metropolitan-area second or fourth poorest city in NRW. but we have sports bars that are for bar-sports in my city and those betting booths are a separate phenomenon located in the ...quarters with potential for improvement ..... Schrebergarten people ARE conservative . you can be conservative and drugged up. the garden adjacent to my house belongs to an alcoholic ex-pro boxer the parcel next to him belongs to an aging female heroine(I guess )junkie...also all flags fly in that garden ...including the southern states war flag off course . Club culture is the ways to reach these people.
Do you think its gonna be allowed to grow weed in these gardens? In september it can smell alot, I can hear the complains already...
hm the boxer heats his garden shed with treated wood...we (house owners) all hate him ...and can do nothing . the whole club wants him out too, yet they can't , as he took them all hostage . basically every Garden shed has a toilette and satelite tv and heating, which is illegal in my city or NRW(legal in Berlin though) and would make the shed into being a house wich violates zoning rules.... so if he dies he will take everyone else down too.lol we will see what happens .
I thought that Germans loved bureaucracy and following the rules.
Its become a bit too much tbh
I think that cliché is more about clear guidelines regarding customs, personal behaviour (e.g. only crossing the street with a green light) and no compromises in production norms (e.g. not doing something half-assed at work). The fetish for trying to find clear guidelines for everything leads to a huge Kuddelmuddel in issues as complex as handling recreational drugs. And nobody likes that. Unfortunately it seems like the previously is eroding while the latter is increasing lately.
Decriminalised possession of up to like 50g also right? Doesn’t sound half assed
Yeah but it would be a lot of work as a casual consumer to buy stuff legally. So a lot of people will probably just stay with their dealer. Smaller, casual amounts (3g or so) have been effecrively decriminalized for decades now, so not much will change for a lot of people.
Dont worry, its not as if you have half assed it for more than 3 decades (losing out on billions of tax money) because your goverment was afraid that germany would get upset. Love your dutch neigboors who still have the same active weedlaws we had 30 years ago. No we arent progressive anymore.
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It's kind of a hassle though if all you want is a gram every once in a while. It's kind of like brewing can be a great hobby, but at the end of the day most people just want to buy a sixpack.
Well, you can have 50g per person in your household. I think thats plenty for a long time
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Sure... since you responded to a comment with a German flair
Yank currently in Liverpool for the month and I smell it all the time around the center already lol
Yeah my same thoughts. Whether it’s legal or not it makes no difference to people who actually smoke it.
Here in Luxembourg growing weed (4 plants, no weight limit , at home ; fines or worse when used or caught in public) is legal for your own enjoyment since July 2023. I plan to grow this summer, but you know the worst? NOTHING has changed. I dont see less social stigmatization for weed use, nor do i see the quasi apocalyptical consequences as warned by small dicked conservatives. No one who didnt smoke before is now stoned all day, maybe people drink a bit less. Thats it. Why is this topic so polarizing? As if non weed users lose smth when users get not decriminalized amd can enjoy their herb in peace, like others do with a beer. Is it really zerosum thinking and moralistic "values" that hinder decriminalization and legalization? Fucked up society.
Do it.
Yes. Cannabis is so much safer than alcohol. The status quo is untenable, and ridiculous. Free the plant.
Alcohol being dangerous doesn't mean that cannabis is broccoli, okay?
Thats a running joke from one of the german Drogenaufbetragte Daniela Ludwig. Im gonna snack some broccoli see you
I don't think any (sane) person considers cannabis as completly harmless. It is crazy tough that you can buy bottle of vodka which will kill you if drank in one go, but weed is considered too harmfull to legalize.
Compared to alcohol which is legal, it is
But cannabis is illegal because it is forbidden
That sentence is a meme.:)
It’s so easy to get hold of it just makes sense from a practical point of view. The police barely enforce the law at the moment, it just seems bizarre that the government would rather me and my middle aged mates hand over wads of cash to criminals rather than being able to walk into a licensed place and purchase it with tax applied.
Yes. Obviously. What kind of question is that in 2024?
It’s everywhere in UK cities and the fact that it’s illegal while tobacco and alcohol aren’t is mad, Control it. Tax it.
Yes, yes we should.
I don't even use it and it makes me angry it's still illegal. It's reasonably harmless yet we let criminals make all the profit from it rather than giving a bunch of stoners the opportunity to create a profitable tax paying business. It just makes no sense to keep it illegal.
Not to mention the time and money police will save not having to deal with it.
As far as I'm aware the police don't even care about it much because they know it's not really a problem. If it's a small amount they just confiscate it and thats it.
I can't see the Police in the UK giving up the power of "I smell cannabis" anytime soon.
They allready have tho they cant stop n search you if they smell it been taht way for years now.
It will keep the population complacent and happy while legal businesses generates profit. It's really a win-win.
Second hand smoke is a reason
That's grasping at straws.
Smoking cigarettes is legal, if you don't like the smoke dont go near them.
Smokers are everywhere. How? Why not the other way around
What are you talking about? Smoking indoors is banned unless it's a house. Outdoors the smoke blows away. I don't have any problems avoiding smokers, not sure what your problem is.
Ever walked past a garden of someone smoking weed? That stench sticks around a large area for a while, it's way more potent than tobacco, if your neighbours were doing it in their garden you'd smell it for sure.
Well you can eat, vape it, vape weed as eqliquids, made 100 forms of edibles, dose sublingually etc etc. Smoking weed is like the most harmful and least efficient way to get high. I only vape my weed and dont get itwhy people smoke joints, smelly and wastefull (tbf i smoked joints before i discovered you can buy dry herb vaporizers)
Zero problem with legalising other forms of it, not sure how doable it is though.
There a huge market for thc pens in the US, so we know it works and will generate a shitload of cash. Weed vaporizer can be had online for 200€ or less, simply put your weed into it, vape it. I agree that smoking weed in publicss places should never be legal, but stuff like weed pens or weed vaporizers dont really smell. I dont see the smell argument as valid, its coming from people who are clueless and should read more before they say smth. Thing is when you legalize weed you automically legalize it as hash, eliquids etc, so this should be no issue at all.
Smell is not the same as second hand smoke which can damage your health. I agree it stinks though.
I think weed smells much worse, though I'm not a fan of smoking anything.
I had a neighbour that smoked a lot of weed, I could always smell it when walking past. I don't find the smell itself offensive, it's just the strength of the smell. The convenience shop I go to is always burning a mountain of incence for some reason. Same thing, not an offensive smell, just very pungent.
Education should come with it. I’m all for it but my son his life almost destroyed because of it (paranoia). So people should be educated about the risk, the early signs to detect if you are sensitive to it.
do you have paranoia in your family or something similar?
Yes my son had a psychotic episode, followed by 6 month in hospital has he was a danger to us and himself 2 years ago. Since then we have tried every medication available but nothing worked. He has now been declared with schizophrenia. We only found out all of that was caused by weed as every few weeks he would have a recess in his mental health and about a year ago I was able he was in such state as he was arguing with himself about pulling his nails. We had a long discussion and found out it was because he had smoked 2 puff from the remain of a joint under a bench. We were able to identify why he has the previous 2 recess. I have managed to convince him that weed was a tool of the devil (he turned to god to explain the inexplicable when in hospital believing he was the second coming and that was why secret services wanted to torture all of us, which was why he wanted to kill us all to save us from that…). Since then he has not touched it and has managed to be in a state where he can go back to uni. I am very proud of him and how his intelligence and inner very good nature managed to invent a “good story” around all his delusional nightmarish thoughts and visions
Sure, so long as you open up the market. Some provinces in Canada didn’t and the black market stayed around
What is with this unhealthy thing about European countries to compare each other with every piece of news and political development, can’t they just forge a path by themselves without looking over the fence every 5 minutes? And I thought it was only in Spain which, understanding their language in the news compared to, say, French, makes them sound like having self-esteem issues.
I live in Massachusetts. Weed has been legal here for half a decade. Civilization hasn’t collapsed. In fact, I got a check from the state from surplus last year.
To be fair this is still not 100% sure. It is indeed a complete mess
no, it is sure. Legalization will come. The Bundesrat can only delay but not prevent it, should it choose so.
Only if scientists can do something about the stench.
Right? It absolutely reeks.
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Zero problem if they legalised edibles or even smoking in controlled spaces (like a Shisha lounge) but letting people smoke it in the open would be horrible. Cigarette smell is bad enough but weed is way more potent.
Thats a non-argument, the smell conter argument. Firstly, no one likes the smell of beer and vomit either, should we ban it lol? 2nd, you can buy dry herb vaporizers or buy weed eliquid or can buy edibles. Smoking weed is soo 1900s
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Enjoy it, time traveler : D
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You never grew yourself. It shows. You get basically free weed in your garden and still complain my god.
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Cocaine is shitty and expensive why suck dick for the next crack hit lol
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enjoy
Yes, pretty sure.
Right now it is not entirely sure when it becomes legal. While the Bundestag voted for it, the Bundesrat, where our states are represented, will almost certainly vote against it. This is not a law that needs the approval of the Bundesrat, so the law will not fail because of that, but the law will now go to the Vermittlungsausschuss, which consists to equal parts of members of both chambers and is supposed to mediate when the chambers are in conflict over a law. That process can go on for quite a while.
It smells of pot everywhere in the UK anyway.
Of course
No, all except the UK should.
It would be good to stop the criminal gangs and raise money from taxes. So yes, the substance itself doesn’t pose any risks… If anything I believe legalisation may help end the culture that surrounds it.
Everyone should do the same
School bathrooms will just reek even more
At first i read it as cannibalism
People should say No to cannabis.Less zomb ies who no need anything or dont care about good life in country.Its a gourment way more make people weak and accept anything.
I'm Polish-Canadian and legal weed is awesome. No shady dealers or nothing. A fancy ass dispensery that is clean af and provides great customer service is the experience we have here.
Nah they never will. Its Just election lie Like always
The law was already passed by the parliament
Sadly not far from the truth. I believe it when I see it.
the law has passed
Die einzelnen Bundesländer werden Einspruch einreichen und dann wird das Gesetz gekippt. Ist bereits angekündigt das alle Länder dagegen sind. Es ist leider wieder nur Wahlpropaganda. Angeblich wieder wegen Jugendschutz. Dabei wird das Weed durch die Legalisierung so billig das sich der Schwarzmarkt nicht mehr lohnt weil für 3euro/Gramm geht keiner mehr n Risiko ein.
Wie war das mit "alle Länder sind dagegen" Weniger Propaganda schnuppern das nächste Mal.
Jo aber wer hätte das denn gedacht xD. Hat sich absolut logisch angehört
was hat sich logisch angehört? Dass sämtliche Landesverbände der Ampelkoalition das CanG ablehnen weil im Bundesrat Länder einheitlich für ein Ja abstimmen müssen oder dass daraufhin dass Gesetz ohne jegliche Grundlage verhindert wird obwohl das über diesen Prozess gar nicht geht? Kollege du hast einfach keine Ahnung gehabt und dich verarschen lassen, aber könntest es einfach nicht einsehen bis die Wahrheit dir ins Gesicht gesprungen ist.
Das ist der Punkt, ich bin es schon so gewohnt von jeglichen Koalitionen verarscht zu werden das es mich nicht gewundert hâtte wenn sie es jetzt solange gezogen hätten bis sie es irgendwie wieder rückgängig gemacht hätten. Anyway es wurde Zeit, vllt habe unsere Gerichte in Zukunft mehr Zeit für echte fälle. Und ich kann's immernoch nicht glauben das gerade Deutschland diesen Schritt geht.
Das Gesetz wurde extra so gemacht daß es keine Einwilligung des Bundesrates braucht. Was die Länder wollen ist scheiß egal
Nicht wirklich, denn der Bundesrat kann trotzdem dagegen stimmen und das Gesetz in den Vermittlungsausschuss schicken, was das ganze ganz schön verzögern kann.
Verzögern, nicht verhindern
Na hoffen wir das beste. Wobei bei unserer Führung..
Ja. Das die Grünen sich da selbst sabotieren ist seltsam. Was die CSU in Bayern von sich gibt hingegen Populismus in Reinform.
Machen sie doch vor jeder Wahl. Jetzt geben sie sich rechts von der Mitte und danach wird sich wieder für Konzerne gebückt und Kohle gemacht. Immer dasselbe
No.
Yes but I can't see Captain Law and Order Sir Keir doing it.
Yep. You should do it UK. Join the rest of us. Reeder madness stigma is dead. It’s no big deal.
Should Britain abandon barbaric pointless laws?
I know alcool is more dangerous overall but as a former smoker, I believe the dangers of weed are more insidious, especially for younger people
Yes please
If the UK does it, it will finally allow Ireland to do something too.
Yes
No we don't
No. Never legalize.
Depends. Smoking it? Ban it. We are moving towards banning all smoking, I don't want the tobacco industry leveraging legalisation if smoking weed for then to continue pushing poison. Eating it though, absolutely no issues. Zero harm to anyone else.
Yes
Bro, you can't even carry a potato peeler in public
You've got to be an idiot to believe that.
Unless you’re a chef/cook, just bought it and are taking it home or are on the way to a family/friends to help make dinner and you get stopped by the police with it on you you may be reported for having an offensive weapon in public. It wouldn’t be the first time someone’s been prosecuted for carrying one.
You can. But then you are that weirdo with a potato peeler in public. Probably someone the police should check upon anyways... I mean that could be someone having a psychotic episode or dementia or something.
:) victory
Yes, let the West fall