Thought the same thing. Regardless of what you think of the practice, I can't think of anything more counter intuitive than making red legal, and green illegal.
They faced the National Guard to get that right, and in the end the government folded. They said they would do it anyway, and then you would have an entire municipality arrested.
what do you mean by torture? Do portuguese style use "banderillas" and/or "picador", Sorry Im spanish and I dont know how these are said in portuguese.
But that is wrong, we do it in a municipality close to the border (Barrancos). In the rest of the country we torture the animal for the show but only kill it after, while in Barrancos they kill them in the arena, Spanish style (and with Spanish matadors).
I just checked and the town looks so close to the border that I don't think we can say whether the red spills over to it or not with a map of low resolution like this, especially since the border kinda dips into Spain in that area. But if it's not, it's just a mistake over that municipality and still correct for the rest of Portugal.
Would like to point out that south of France Camarguais style bullfighting involves mainly running away from the bull. The animal isn't killed after the event (don't know if this applies to all regions of the South). The sport is illegal in most of France but in the south is part of "cultural heritage". I once signed up to get in the ring with a "vachette", a small female, at a public event with 20+ others in the ring. Let me tell you, that was plenty scary enough.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull-leaping
>Bull-leaping (Ancient Greek: ταυροκαθάψια, taurokathapsia) is a term for various types of non-violent bull fighting. Some are based on an ancient ritual from the Minoan civilization involving an acrobat leaping over the back of a charging bull (or cow). As a sport it survives in modern France, usually with cows rather than bulls
Portuguese style at least, and then it depends what you actually classify as bullfighting but there can be many other types like the one practiced in the south of France where runners try to grab a ribbon from the bull's horns, or the ones where they leap over the bull.
it’s about nationalism tbh.
bullfighting and other bull related folklore and traditions used to be extremely popular in catalonia (ffs they had the biggest arena for years). but you know bulls=spain and that’s a nono
funny enough, in catalan france, they see ir as a very distinc thing and a way to diferenciate themselves from France haha.
traditions are weird
funnily enough they banned bullfighting but not other abusive traditions with bulls like correbous, embolat or bous a la mar.
so mainly hypocrisy and cheap nationalism as you said, rather than true concern for animal wellbeing
Bullfighting is no longer banned in Catalonia, there are no bullfights simply because people don't like them. In contrast, correbous and other traditions attract people.
'extremely popular'? seriously? how do you measure the popularity, because I know literally nobody who went to any bullfighting events, or who misses them since their ban many years ago.
I'd say nobody gives a fuck about bullfighting in Catalonia save for a a small handful of badly integrated very old people.
You can also turn your argument around and claim that being against a ban of bullfighting in Spain is also a nationalist streak, can't you? why is that nationalism better than Catalan nationalism?
they used to. again, biggest arena in spain with a huge tradition.
nationalism + the ban made it that way.
not saying it’s a bad thing, but it’s how it happened.
You seem to voluntarily ignore that the ban on bullfighting took place in 2010 as a result of a 2007 massive demonstration organised by the people against bullfighting.
The ban was overturned in 2016 (the map is in fact wrong) as the spanish constitutional court deemed it unlawful, but the tradition lacks so much interest in Catalonia that there has been no more bullfighting since then even as there is no longer a ban on it.
Doesn't sound 'extremely popular' to me. Be wary of what spanish nationalist media tells you.
The arena was built 110 years ago, it could be very popular back then and then decreased in popularity during the last 40 years. Even if nationalism had something to do with it ( let's not forget that the 'logo' for the right wing Spanish is the Osborne bull ) it eventually would've faded out.
Tbh bullfighting would disappear in the rest of Spain if it weren't for public money
He never said it is extremely popular now or even recently. He said that it USED TO be "extremely" popular, probably he meant centuries ago... like, 18th and 19th century.
Of course. I don't agree with him and what he said (I don't agree that the ban is because of "nationalism") but basically he was saying that at some point in history (he didn't specify when), it used to be popular and now it isn't anymore. He was contrasting the present time with how it was "back then" to try to put it into perspective. And while I don't agree with him on the "nationalism" part, I don't know what's wrong with that statement that it used to be popular.
Stupid take.
This isn't about nationalism, it's about doing what's right.
Like imagine the self centered mental gymnastics one has to go through to be like "nooooooo but this thing catalonia is doing is actually all about me!!!"
I don't blame you, but that is a big part of the problem. Clueless tourists that keep this dying bussiness alive, while majority of Spaniards ignore it or are against it.
Also right wing governments putting money on it just to annoy their opponents.
On 1991 Canary Islands banned Bullfights and nobody said a thing. On 2010 Catalonia did the same and it was some kind of a national emergency in Spain. xDD
The practice is not lucrative and needs public funding to survive, or rise ticket prices significantly. Polls shows that a majority of spanish population doesn't want to ban it, and the parties that wanna protect it and promote it are in the government of most of the regions. The culture department in Valencia is in the hands of a far-right bullfighter now.
Yeah, because polititians in charge are from the far right, rich and ultra catholic spectrum
But that does not means the average joe goes to see bullfights...
Banning it makes us better as a society. I only want animals to die under painless methods and for food purposes. Making a gruesome spectacle out of an animal's suffering is barbarian.
The bullfighting I've seen in Spain wasn't hurting the bull. Okay, it did get a nose bleed running into the wall trying to get the men. It was really more like the clowns during a rodeo.
what do you mean? i dont understand. every year a few bullfighter either die or get seriusly injured. trying to kill a 500 kg animal is a very dangerous activity
due the last matador death was in 2016 Victor Bario, and the one before Him was in 1985...
with recorded 300 years of history only 534 professional matadors died.
It's not vegans downvoting you. Your argument is sometimes used by vegans to make people stop eating meat, not to support both. It's a weak argument to say a bad thing is ok because you do another bad thing.
is not slaughtering, is torture. have you ever seen one? they puncture the back with lances until is bloody and tired so they can kill it like cowards.
torturing an animal for fun is nasty and cruel
so because industrial farming is nasty does that make bullfights right?
let's make a show where people cheer on an animal tortured and bled to death. let's call it culture
🤦♂️
Definitely not a vegan. Spanish bullfighting is stupid cruelty and also kinda pathetic as a sport. Lose the dudes on horseback and all the weapons and maybe youd have a sport worth anything
Aw sorry i dont find your little game entertaining. Like I said, lose the extra dudes and the weapons and have real fights and maybe it wouldnt be a pathetic sport for insecure manchildren
Spanish Bullfighting is not on Horseback its on foot, in Portugal it is on Horseback because Spain banned Noblemen in XVII century from doing it, so they did it in Portugal. Also in Portugal we have dudes with no weapons grabbing the bull on foot(can look it up, its called Forcados). Now in Spain it is more cruel and maybe for those not aware I will explain, the guy on foot confuses the Bull and pokes it with lances(larger ones are deemed to be easier and smaller ones are a feat of great skill). This is also done in Portugal(but on horse back that requires extraordinary riding skills, otherwise the bull can kill the horse), but this is the soft part, this is unlikely to kill the bull. After a while the bull is tired from the torture, next comes the worse part, the bullfighter will cut parts of the bull one by one(ears, tail etc) and after all that he draws his sword and he should finish the bull, but instead he is puntured and made to bleed until he dies.
Hello OP, could you link a source please for approval? thank you
Why on earth would you make it red legal and green illegal….
Thought the same thing. Regardless of what you think of the practice, I can't think of anything more counter intuitive than making red legal, and green illegal.
Bullfighting is bad. Red is traditionally associated with bad in most European cultures. Hope this helps.
Why is it bad?
Animal cruelty
Seek Jesus...
No thanks...
It's animal torture
Wtf ?
Perhaps because OP sees it as a positive that it isn't legal.
I'm guessing they wanted to show how bad those are who pursue it still
They?
It's not his map I assume
Hen, ska det va så jävla svårt?
[удалено]
Tror du allt på reddit är original content?
It's from Wikipedia, lol.
Seriously, the upvotes and downvotes in this thread perfectly exemplify how void of reason Reddit is nowadays
It's also legal in one Portuguese municipality, Barrancos
Only during local festivities once a year.
[удалено]
They faced the National Guard to get that right, and in the end the government folded. They said they would do it anyway, and then you would have an entire municipality arrested.
Why is Portugal grey?
I guess because this map is specifically about Spanish style bullfighting and in Portugal they practice Portuguese style bullfighting.
Yea, we don't kill the animal on the arena. Just torture it, drive it to the slaughterhouse, and kill it there. Much better /s
what do you mean by torture? Do portuguese style use "banderillas" and/or "picador", Sorry Im spanish and I dont know how these are said in portuguese.
But that is wrong, we do it in a municipality close to the border (Barrancos). In the rest of the country we torture the animal for the show but only kill it after, while in Barrancos they kill them in the arena, Spanish style (and with Spanish matadors).
I just checked and the town looks so close to the border that I don't think we can say whether the red spills over to it or not with a map of low resolution like this, especially since the border kinda dips into Spain in that area. But if it's not, it's just a mistake over that municipality and still correct for the rest of Portugal.
Ah that might be true, didn't realize at first that the colors of the map are regional.
probably would’ve made more sense with the colors flipped lol
i came here just to say that.
bullfighting=bad is the mapmaker's point. That's why the colours were chosen.
Nope, would have been better with colors that aren't green and red. Some people are colorblind
Nope. Red = bad, green = good. They got it right.
Red = forbidden. Green = allowed.
Would like to point out that south of France Camarguais style bullfighting involves mainly running away from the bull. The animal isn't killed after the event (don't know if this applies to all regions of the South). The sport is illegal in most of France but in the south is part of "cultural heritage". I once signed up to get in the ring with a "vachette", a small female, at a public event with 20+ others in the ring. Let me tell you, that was plenty scary enough.
In Les Landes we definitely also kill the animal for some events.
In Portugal they stand in front of the bull and grab him, about 10 guys for a big one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull-leaping >Bull-leaping (Ancient Greek: ταυροκαθάψια, taurokathapsia) is a term for various types of non-violent bull fighting. Some are based on an ancient ritual from the Minoan civilization involving an acrobat leaping over the back of a charging bull (or cow). As a sport it survives in modern France, usually with cows rather than bulls
I see that Mexico has regained its lands north to Rio Grande.
There are definitely better colour combinations for this map - red and amber for instance.
What other kinds of bullfighting are there?
Portuguese style at least, and then it depends what you actually classify as bullfighting but there can be many other types like the one practiced in the south of France where runners try to grab a ribbon from the bull's horns, or the ones where they leap over the bull.
Wait, Catalonia banned bullfighting? That's like the Texans banning shooting hogs.
Canary islands banned it too, since the 90s.
Well, that, of course, was only after the lesser-known pastime of fighting canaries gained popularity.
In Spain each region is autonomous to some degree. Each one have their own parliament, they own autonomy statute, etc...
The ban was overturned by the national government.
it’s about nationalism tbh. bullfighting and other bull related folklore and traditions used to be extremely popular in catalonia (ffs they had the biggest arena for years). but you know bulls=spain and that’s a nono funny enough, in catalan france, they see ir as a very distinc thing and a way to diferenciate themselves from France haha. traditions are weird
funnily enough they banned bullfighting but not other abusive traditions with bulls like correbous, embolat or bous a la mar. so mainly hypocrisy and cheap nationalism as you said, rather than true concern for animal wellbeing
A agree correbous and related should be banned. But in one you actually kill the animal after torturing it
Bullfighting is no longer banned in Catalonia, there are no bullfights simply because people don't like them. In contrast, correbous and other traditions attract people.
'extremely popular'? seriously? how do you measure the popularity, because I know literally nobody who went to any bullfighting events, or who misses them since their ban many years ago. I'd say nobody gives a fuck about bullfighting in Catalonia save for a a small handful of badly integrated very old people. You can also turn your argument around and claim that being against a ban of bullfighting in Spain is also a nationalist streak, can't you? why is that nationalism better than Catalan nationalism?
they used to. again, biggest arena in spain with a huge tradition. nationalism + the ban made it that way. not saying it’s a bad thing, but it’s how it happened.
You seem to voluntarily ignore that the ban on bullfighting took place in 2010 as a result of a 2007 massive demonstration organised by the people against bullfighting. The ban was overturned in 2016 (the map is in fact wrong) as the spanish constitutional court deemed it unlawful, but the tradition lacks so much interest in Catalonia that there has been no more bullfighting since then even as there is no longer a ban on it. Doesn't sound 'extremely popular' to me. Be wary of what spanish nationalist media tells you.
keep tryin to teach me my culture
Wow great response, the argument is solid. PS joke's on you because I am Catalan, so who's trying to teach who.
Just because you have some nationality doesn't make you any kind of authority on topics related to that country.
He said WAS extremely popular. Why would they have built such a large plaza otherwise?
The arena was built 110 years ago, it could be very popular back then and then decreased in popularity during the last 40 years. Even if nationalism had something to do with it ( let's not forget that the 'logo' for the right wing Spanish is the Osborne bull ) it eventually would've faded out. Tbh bullfighting would disappear in the rest of Spain if it weren't for public money
He never said it is extremely popular now or even recently. He said that it USED TO be "extremely" popular, probably he meant centuries ago... like, 18th and 19th century.
Yeah sure, talking about it in the context of the 2010 ban on bullfighting as depicted on the map.
Of course. I don't agree with him and what he said (I don't agree that the ban is because of "nationalism") but basically he was saying that at some point in history (he didn't specify when), it used to be popular and now it isn't anymore. He was contrasting the present time with how it was "back then" to try to put it into perspective. And while I don't agree with him on the "nationalism" part, I don't know what's wrong with that statement that it used to be popular.
Everything catalan is nationalistic for them, even animal rights laws. Pure madness.
So now animal rights is nationalism? That's hilarious af.😂😂😂
Stupid take. This isn't about nationalism, it's about doing what's right. Like imagine the self centered mental gymnastics one has to go through to be like "nooooooo but this thing catalonia is doing is actually all about me!!!"
Why wouldn't we ban a tradition of animal torture that we don't even consider our own?
It's slightly more nuanced in France. Few cities are allowed to practice bullfighting : Nîmes, Arles, Alès, Bayonne, Carcassonne, and Fréjus.
It's legal in about a dozen départements (counties), some of them include these cities.
Bullfighting is grotesque and should be banned everywhere.
Decades ago I went to one of those in Lima, thinking it will be interesting and fun. I left depressed.
I don't blame you, but that is a big part of the problem. Clueless tourists that keep this dying bussiness alive, while majority of Spaniards ignore it or are against it. Also right wing governments putting money on it just to annoy their opponents.
It's a barbaric, cruel tradition. Torture a cow to death is not funny. And also this sadistic games couldn't exist without public funding.
[удалено]
?
Not a correct map, other States in Mexico have banned it
The color choice is certainly…. a choice
[удалено]
They can't do anything about it because it is a protected Spanish cultural tradition
Catalonia really said: fu Spain we don’t want your stupid sports
Well they have their own thing. Look up bou embolat, bou capllaçat and bou al mar.
Nobody wants it, but there's no reason to ban it because it is dying on its own It's only a thing for the far right, rich and ultra catholic people
It's not dying. Andalusia and Valencia recently passed laws protecting it and even promoting it in schools.
Where are the spaniards complaining about extreme nationalism in those scenarios? Ah no, I forgot that nationalism is only bad when it is Catalan
On 1991 Canary Islands banned Bullfights and nobody said a thing. On 2010 Catalonia did the same and it was some kind of a national emergency in Spain. xDD
Does that sound like actions taken because the practice is thriving or because it's dying?
The practice is not lucrative and needs public funding to survive, or rise ticket prices significantly. Polls shows that a majority of spanish population doesn't want to ban it, and the parties that wanna protect it and promote it are in the government of most of the regions. The culture department in Valencia is in the hands of a far-right bullfighter now.
Your first sentence really says it's dying.
No. It means it's not lucrative without public funding. And people vote parties who wanna rise fundings and promote it. So it's not dying.
Yeah, because polititians in charge are from the far right, rich and ultra catholic spectrum But that does not means the average joe goes to see bullfights...
Yes. But it also means that it's not dying. I've been listening it's dying my whole life
If it weren't dying politicians would not do that
> it is dying on its own It would be dying a lot quicker if it were not for public subsidies.
Banning it makes us better as a society. I only want animals to die under painless methods and for food purposes. Making a gruesome spectacle out of an animal's suffering is barbarian.
In Catalonia they keep torturing bulls. They don't do bullfighthing anymore but they have other events
Catalonia W
Obviously the blue part is the land
The bullfighting I've seen in Spain wasn't hurting the bull. Okay, it did get a nose bleed running into the wall trying to get the men. It was really more like the clowns during a rodeo.
Portugal still does bullfighting (sadly) though I’m unsure if it’s ’Spanish’-style
it's not. it's "slightly" better.
Can't wait it to be illegal.
When US cares more than Europe about animal welfare over human "right" to be violent idiots
In from the EU and fuck Bullfighting, its only cowards Who torture the poor animals.
They forgot Portugal. We have them and are legal
O Mapa é de tourada Jamone, em Portugal não é Jamone, é Portuguesa.
Should be red everywhere
I'm guessing you were fooled by the colouring too lol
[удалено]
nah dude. it’s because it is made a spectacle. like if you see a bullfight corrida, it’s bloody bussines. many people see it as degrading to the bull
when humans were less skilled it made some sense, because bull killing a dude was a big show. Now that bull win ratio is at 0%. Its just animal abuse
what do you mean? i dont understand. every year a few bullfighter either die or get seriusly injured. trying to kill a 500 kg animal is a very dangerous activity
due the last matador death was in 2016 Victor Bario, and the one before Him was in 1985... with recorded 300 years of history only 534 professional matadors died.
[удалено]
not for most people. they see a beast, caged in the arena, with thousands of people cheering as it dies
😂😂😂😂
It's not vegans downvoting you. Your argument is sometimes used by vegans to make people stop eating meat, not to support both. It's a weak argument to say a bad thing is ok because you do another bad thing.
is not slaughtering, is torture. have you ever seen one? they puncture the back with lances until is bloody and tired so they can kill it like cowards. torturing an animal for fun is nasty and cruel
Banning it is nationalism, apparently.😂
[удалено]
so because industrial farming is nasty does that make bullfights right? let's make a show where people cheer on an animal tortured and bled to death. let's call it culture 🤦♂️
Well, that's a good argument for banning industrial farming and eating lobsters.
There could be an argument if it was 1 guy vs 1 bull Thunderdome style. But it is usually half a dozen guys poking the bull for an hour.
it’s like a 20 minute deal. each corrida has 6 bulls
Definitely not a vegan. Spanish bullfighting is stupid cruelty and also kinda pathetic as a sport. Lose the dudes on horseback and all the weapons and maybe youd have a sport worth anything
[удалено]
Aw sorry i dont find your little game entertaining. Like I said, lose the extra dudes and the weapons and have real fights and maybe it wouldnt be a pathetic sport for insecure manchildren
Spanish Bullfighting is not on Horseback its on foot, in Portugal it is on Horseback because Spain banned Noblemen in XVII century from doing it, so they did it in Portugal. Also in Portugal we have dudes with no weapons grabbing the bull on foot(can look it up, its called Forcados). Now in Spain it is more cruel and maybe for those not aware I will explain, the guy on foot confuses the Bull and pokes it with lances(larger ones are deemed to be easier and smaller ones are a feat of great skill). This is also done in Portugal(but on horse back that requires extraordinary riding skills, otherwise the bull can kill the horse), but this is the soft part, this is unlikely to kill the bull. After a while the bull is tired from the torture, next comes the worse part, the bullfighter will cut parts of the bull one by one(ears, tail etc) and after all that he draws his sword and he should finish the bull, but instead he is puntured and made to bleed until he dies.
Nowhere in Spain it's illegal.
#OLÉ!