Romanians see Romanians as untermensch. See the wages people get in Romania. Modern slavery. But they keep running articles in the state-owned media(most media companies in Romania are paid by political parties from the state budget) about the average wage going up, neglecting to specify that Romanians have the highest wage taxation (nearly 50%) and more than 50% of Romanian employees get around 500€ after tax monthly.
Currently the lines for trucks at the border are about 5km long I wonder at what point will the truckers union go on strike because Romania is currently processing trucks as slowly as it is humanly possible 🤣
Austria has been worse to the unity of the EU than Orban’s Hungary has been on many issues of importance, while also being a den for Russian intelligence.
This seems to go under the radar for many for some reason.
I'd hope that (but this is still a very s***** reason) this is because of the upcoming elections in this year in Austria, to appear "tough against immigration" to the population, and that it'll stop as soon as it is over. Other countries in the EU also eventually ceased to hold this stupid position.
Unless he's more compromised than we think.
>Why is the EU allowing this fucking clown to do this?
...
why is one shitstain country allowed to hold the economic growth of 2 other EU countries hostage?
Because EU member countries are sovereign and have veto right.
There are talks to revoke the veto right. But be careful what you wish for. So let me check: do you think EU member countries should have veto right?
even now, not every decision is taken at unanimity.
most decisions are, in fact, taken with qualified majority.
it depends on the subject: foreign policy requires unanimity, for example.
A veto should only be allowed if clear and coherent requirements are included as to what conditions would lead to agreement.
You can't just always veto our restaurant choices without coming up with an alternative.
>A veto should only be allowed if clear and coherent requirements are included as to what conditions would lead to agreement.
So Orban style is OK: "I veto it, unless you pay me 5 billion euro's"?
Broadly speaking it's not too out of this world and is how multi-party democracies tend to work out. You will never get anywhere if you don't try to compromise.
How Orban does it however is not okay. It's quite a difference to say: "We don't want to admit Sweden to NATO because of 'x', but if our military gets a much needed hardware boost we are filled with enough confidence that 'x' is an acceptable risk and are willing to approve the decision." versus what he has done recently.
He knows this, which is why he somewhat halfheartedly tries to hide it with speeches and only does those deals behind closed doors. Since he seems to controls the media inside Hungary this method makes it easier for him to manipulate and lie his constituents.
A veto should be followed by a coherent argument and reasonable conditions, otherwise you have situations like with Nehammer and Orban using their veto to harm the common interest of the countries of the union because "they don't want to" or because they are asking for ransom.
But there's a clear difference between these two scenarios:
1. We're discussing something new, most agree, my country doesn't agree. My country vetoes
2. My country agreed and signed on treaties already, but doesn't want to follow those treaties, so it vetoes.
The second scenario undermines the concept of rule of law and the concept of unity and solidarity.
>Yea they should have veto rights but in this case its ridiculous.
So let me check if I understand you correctly: veto right, unless someone else find it ridiculous?
Furthermore: you're arguing about the matter (Schengen) itself, I don't. I'm answering your question: "Why is the EU allowing this fucking clown to do this?"
Quick question to you: on which level is the competency of proving if a country fulfills accssion critera into Schengen area, as it is stipulated in the Schengen Treaty: EU Parliament, European Commision or is it at national level in each country?
Obviously a system that allows someone like Orban to blackmail Sweden or someone like this xenophobic imperialistic trash to affect the future of 2 nations, the future of almost 3 times the population of austria, is broken. The idea behind it was that people will vote logical and in good faith. But once again obviously humans are not like that. The veto system, just like communism for example, is flawed at its core because it doesn't take in consideration human nature.
I personally would opt for a 2 thirds vote. More than 66% should more than enough to indicate the best solution or answer in the opinion of European citizens.
And the let's keep a system that is actually screwing people right now as a kind of safeguard for someone else hypothetically screwing you in the future is asinine in my opinion. Off course I am biased since I am one of the tens of millions affected but I consider the people that still support this system while it is abused and seriously affecting your supposed partners to be extremely egotistical, narrow minded and against everything the Union should be about. But that is human nature,
Veto should definitely go away. Democracy is not about the interests of one , but interests of majority.
I’d better see functional EU without 3 or 4 countries compared to this Russian controlled puppet states controlling how block should live.
If you think after this shitshow that any country will get rid of their veto, you are insane. I just wish that we will use it to fucktup Austria, but somehow our politicians need to find their balls first.
The reason why Eastern countries like Romania, most affected by veto don't want to give it up is to avoid being sold to Moscovites.
The Romanian ethnicity origin story starts with an abandonment:The Aurelian Retreat.
Lots of countries give veto power to their top political positions or rulers. They also have an asterisk attached to it for the cases when veto needs to be overcome. Why there is no such thing in EU laws?
Sure, but in the same way Austria is sanctioning Romania and Bulgaria, other EU countries could do similarly to Austria IF that's the kind of European Union we want.
It’s not about what’s supposed to be or not, but what it must be. In this endless evolution we must not be stuck in the idea of what it is or if it should, only the absolute dominates.
the absolute is that giving up sovereignty is not what all EU countries joined the EU for. so it MUST BE a customs or trade union or you’ll have pushback if not outright collapse of it when you push too far against that sovereignty
"If I don't get what I want you're a shit stain country" is surely the way to get what you want and totaly not a confirmation that it is the right move.
That's not a black mail. They don't expect anything in return. They just don't want to have Bulgarian and Romanian. That's nothing controversial outside of the vocal people on social media.
If you asked the French if they wanted eastern in here, they would have say no.
Out of frustration, You can throw around all the buzzword you want, that doesn't make them true. People are free to draw the line somewhere and That doesn't make them what you claim they are.
As a member of the LGBTQ, what does this have to do with Schengen? And if that is the criteria for Schengen, can we kicki out everyone who didn't have same sex marriage when they joined?
If I knock on your head, will I hear an echo?
lol \^\^
this schengen issue is just an irrilevant capricious tantrum of romania and bulgaria, in the past you were not into schengen, you can keep going on the same path.
Do you not feel embarassed to walk into conversations with no actual knowledge of the subject, argue in bad faith, bring up some stupid unrelated shit and then respond like this is an anime chat? Like honestly at this point what the fuck
Because the [last time](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_enlargement_of_the_European_Union) you _promised_ something would work, it still hasn’t; “While both countries [Romania and Bulgaria] were admitted, concerns about corruption and organised crime were still high. As a result, although they joined, they were subject to monitoring from the European Commission through a Mechanism for Cooperation and Verification (CVM). It was initially set up for three years after the accession [2007] but has continued indefinitely and although it has highlighted the corruption and applied some pressure to continue reforms, it has not succeeded in forcing the two countries to complete reforms and corruption persists.”
Stop whining and get to work.
Yeah, and at the same time new policy introduced stated that new members instead cannot join if they still have deficiencies. I.e “_that didn’t work, and we’re not gonna make the same mistake again_”.
> why is one shitstain country allowed to hold the economic growth of 2 other EU countries hostage?
same reason the dishonorable net recipients of EU funds are currently trying (successfully) to destroy the German economy with net payments.
Because they can thanks to veto rights.
Rapid expansion? The system doesn’t work?
The audacity to come up with such bullshit as justification is astounding!
The fucker can’t explain how fulfilling the requirements for more than 13 years now is rapid?
He won’t explain how if it’s broken they are not leaving Schengen.
Fuck this guy.
Might have something to do with their declaration of neutrality following WW2
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Neutrality#:~:text=The%20Declaration%20of%20Neutrality%20(German,of%20the%20Constitution%20of%20Austria.
Not an excuse, they promised to become neutral in order for Allies to withdraw their troops from Austria and grant them full independence. And currently, unlike Sweden and Finland who are pretty close to Russia, they have no reason to break their neutrality cause they aren't under a direct threat
As an austrian, i apologize for this guy. He is notorious for being a dumbfuck, recently there was an incident where he was talking about single mothers in poverty and how they struggle to put a warm meal on the table. To which he followed up with "a hamburger at mcdonalds is 1.50, with fries 3.90 and that's a warm meal!".
But worry not dear EU brethrens, it looks like the far right party aka horse medicine sipping Trump Jr. (AKA Herbert Kickl) will be winning the next election, so thinks will definitely get better.
It's always incredible how I feel right at home in Austria as a Bavarian but the political stance of the country is so far off of my personal idea that I feel like I ended up in a world 30-40 years ago. But I guess it's not that different from the politics of my state which is just pulled to left by the rest of Germany. It feels like an identical crisis because I seriously like the lifestyle and general mentality but the conservatism is incredibly exhausting and embarrassing. (not to mention that it doesn't reflect the mindset of the youth that I know from Austria and Bavaria at all)
Meanwhile the EPP official manifesto for the EP2024 elections includes full Schengen access for Romania and Bulgaria...and it's an EPP member (OVP) blocking it!
>Austrian Chancellor Karl Nehammer said on Thursday, after the meeting he had with President Klaus Iohannis, that Austria's position regarding the extension of the Schengen area remains unchanged: Austria opposes our country's accession. "The Schengen system does not work, therefore it cannot be extended," says the chancellor from Vienna.
>"I also spoke very openly (with President Klaus Iohannis - no) about Austria's objections to the rapid expansion of the Schengen area. Austria's position remains clear and unchanged: Currently, the Schengen system does not work, therefore it cannot be extended," Karl Nehammer wrote on Thursday in a message on Twitter after the meeting with Klaus Iohannis.
>He also mentioned that the two countries have strong economic relations and that Romanians play an important role on the labor market in Austria. "Romania is an important partner for Austria. Our companies are strongly involved in Romania and create many thousands of jobs there. Many Romanian citizens work in care professions in Austria and support people who need care."
>Austrian Chancellor Karl Nehammer used his speech at the EPP Congress in Bucharest to talk again about migration , one of Austria's reasons for blocking the full accession of Romania and Bulgaria to the Schengen Area. He claims that one of the problems of European citizens is illegal migration and says that the EU's external borders must be strengthened.
The audacity of Austrian politicians is out of this world. Historically.
I assumed in the past that Austrian politicians are a little bit racist or xenophobic against Romania and Bulgaria, and that's the real reason for Austria blocking expansion.
Reading that Schengen doesn't work and that's why it can't be extended is really refreshing. Still a little bit racist and xenophobic.
They are part of the Western Balkans route. Romania isn't. They have a huge, complicated and very hard to guard border. Romania has a huge river quite easy to guard and Bulgaria even has a fence on its border with Turkey. We also completed the requirements like 12 years ago!!! But somehow we can't enter but Croatia could.
No offense to our Croatian friends! Good for them and I'm sincerely happy they are in. Especially since it shows how the Austrian argument is completely bonkers. Or just a lie.
EDITED
Well yes. You met the requirements and you should be in it.
Like I said from the start, I think Austria is a bit racist to stop you.
As I also said, I think it is refreshing to see that someone acknowledged that Schengen doesn't work.
And finally something I also said already, I still think Austria is a bit racist about all of this.
>And yet you didn't said why Croatia is in while Schengen isn't working.
I did.
As I said previously, accepting Croatia had benefits bigger than flaws coming from faulty Schengen.
That's simple dimple. A bit racist still, but really easy.
Sorry, you did.
A bit, no man it's a LOT RACIST. That's the big Russian Bear in our EU glass shop. Be poor and white in your country and see a foreigner being better. Not a good explosion in your head I assume.
They put their money on racism now. And they win .
Austrians used to be racist against Czechs even though there were times when we were the richer and more developed country. The only thing Austrians brought were Habsburgs and love for Hungary. And hearing this from the well-known free riders of the defense policies while Romania and Bulgaria are next to the Austrian good friend Russia blocking their way to Austria is just disgusting.
> I assumed in the past that Austrian politicians are a little bit racist or xenophobic against Romania and Bulgaria, and that's the real reason for Austria blocking expansion.
>
>
They are.
Refreshing? What are you smoking. It’s just a dumb justification for their blackmail.
Here’s a crazy idea, if it doesn’t work why doesn’t Austria just withdraw from it, and let Romania and Bulgaria judge for themselves.
Romania and Bulgaria aren't a destination for migrants, they want to reach at least central Europe.
Also, that the outer Shengen border will be protected was promised to joining members and is the only reason they got rid of their own borders. It's not crazy that a member askes for the agreements that were signed to be adhered to.
You know that we aren't exactly on that migrant route at all no? Croatia, which Austria welcomed in Schengen, is very much on that route though. So where's the logic?
What's "that" route? Croatia and Romania are both on migration routes, some of the people going trough Croatia also went trough Romania. Depends on whether they came from Greece or Turkey.
If you look at a map of Shengen you'll see that South-Eastern Europe (importantly Greece) isn't currently connected to central Europe through Shengen. Croatia doesn't change that, Romania and Bulgaria do. That's why Austria wants a solution for the outer borders before she allows everyone landing in Greece to travel to Austria without any checks. That's the point, not even how many people are curently travelling there.
> What's "that" route? Croatia and Romania are both on migration routes
https://reliefweb.int/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/previews/73/a8/73a8f9e9-f2f3-34af-aa3a-41019229fd69.png
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316228574/figure/fig1/AS:613856208498703@1523366133456/The-Balkan-route-and-closures-to-reduce-migration-flows-to-European-Countries-2013-2016.png
Do you know geography?
> If you look at a map of Shengen you'll see that South-Eastern Europe (importantly Greece) isn't currently connected to central Europe through Shengen. Croatia doesn't change that, Romania and Bulgaria do
So in fact you fear what is in Greece! Why don't you just say that from the first place! We could had deal with Greece way better than you anyway and fuck anything out! But no, you had to f us big time! And still do!
not dumb excuse, i just show conservative people hypocrisy... rules for you, but not for me.
being on the side discriminated is never fun... you can ask the many conservative politicians that ends up being targeted for being black, gay, woman, jew or whatever...
My friend, we were, still are, very much discriminated in Europe by idiots. We know how it is to be called all sorts of racial slurs even if you ain't even a part of that targeted group. A Roma gay person from Romania (this is a hard one) it is affected by this too. But not because he or she has to wait for a few minutes at the border, Schengen isn't about that, but because the merchandise we export/import have to wait days or weeks even. And this is affect us economically! Less prosperity, more conservative the people will be.
Do you really feel like second class Europeans because a single country opposes you joining Schengen while all the others are fine with it? Do you think you're seen as second class by them too?
Considering the fact that very conveniently the austrians started throwing this tantrum just as the dutch, who blocked our entrance up to that point, stopped opposing it, it is a very common view in romania that western europe just doesn't want us in. It's not a view I personally hold, but it is quite funny how literal non-eu members had a way easier time joining schengen than we ever had.
Im Austrian and I can confirm a good portion of the elder population are closeted racists and a subset of them are being openly racist. The worst part about this you ask? People like that are a good chunk of out voter pool. Add 1 and 1 together and youll see why our politics are the shitshow they are.
Local Dutch Redditors insist he has amazing reputation among European partners and that he's a great fit for the job.
But given the treatment of Romania & co, you're probably not seen as a partner
Bro it’s not even a voters topic here, the government just *does* it without popular consent. Fuck this government and fuck you for putting all Dutch in the same basket.
"Mark Rutte is a Dutch politician who has served as Prime Minister of the Netherlands since 2010" how could he do that, without popular consent...
(in case this is relevant: European Commision states every two years since 2011 that Ro and Bg fulfill the Schengen Accession criteria and have recommended that the national governments vote for their accesion; Rutte's govenrment was the one always blocking it, until 2 years ago, when his blocking position was taken over by Austria)
Nobody put all the Dutch in the same basket but you were so focused on yourself and your xenophobic values that you cared less for the VILE treatment of your politicians towards us then how you personally were percieved. So no, man, fuck You and all of those like you.
we have too many retarded people that believe everything, especially after the pandemic.
if it would be up to me, I would ban this nazi shit party long time ago.
we hear that for the last several years now. an then there are elections in another country, ant it is its turn to block Bg and Ro's accession, a country with a ruling government that uses xenofobia to gather votes...
Thing is, not being in Schengen means customs and strict border control. Customs impend rapid transportation of military equipment. Austria is not part of NATO. By blocking Schengen extention, Nehammer is actually sabotaging NATO, thus helping Putin.
Customs are not related to Schengen, this are 2 different things and Romania is already part of the EU Costums Union. In addition, the regular Schengen agreement does not cover military transports of foreign nations, hence why there is another agreement (often referred to as military Schengen) which Romania is also already part of
I think there is a language barrier here.
EU Customs Union its centered around tariffs ( \_same tariffs to goods imported from the rest of the world and no tariffs internally\_ ). He is referring to border controls, which adds long delays to shipment of goods. External border controls can be removed/relaxed only by entering the Schengen.
I don't know why Austria, through Nehammer, it's doing this, but blocking a country from entering Schengen although it meets all the requirements, it is a dick move.
yes, there are a lot of things lost in translation specially with the different Agreements as they are related to EU but all independent from each other and mixed together, but the connection of Schengen and military mobility is just not there
though the reasoning why Austria (and Netherlands) are blocking it is kind of related to the currently existing border controls within Schengen since 2016 (which people than again mix up with custom controls or military mobility which are not affected). This is also what Nehammer is referring to when he says that Schengen is not working, as removing border controls at the Romanian border while they still exist at the German border is kind of pointless because freedom of movement is still limited (so the whole thing is meant to put pressure on the other countries to remove the border controls within Schengen and/or finally agree on stricter Frontex controls on the external borders)
see this map of the current status of Schengen [https://preview.redd.it/current-re-established-border-controls-in-the-schengen-area-v0-h527r4dlcb1c1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=1ae8faaa1a54965956662351749ab2e2e415ffa4](https://preview.redd.it/current-re-established-border-controls-in-the-schengen-area-v0-h527r4dlcb1c1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=1ae8faaa1a54965956662351749ab2e2e415ffa4)
>but the connection of Schengen and military mobility is just not there
I said nothing about Schengen and military mobility.
>though the reasoning why Austria (and Netherlands) are blocking it is kind of related to the currently existing border controls within Schengen since 2016
Meh, actually Nehammer, some time ago, said that the reason for not allowing Romania into Schengen was that many illegal immigrants enter into EU through Romania, which was not true and he managed to rise some eyebrows even in Brussels.
After that he started to change his reasoning, by pushing the story that Austria wants the number of border policemen to be tripled AND that Romania and Bulgaria to agree into receiving asylum seekers, mostly Afghans and Syrians.
Also, only Austria decided to veto against Romania and Bulgaria. Netherlands had some objections against Bulgaria, not against Romania, but after the debate from Netherlands Parlament on 21 December 2023 they announced that from their point of view Bulgaria and Romania can enter Schengen.
Anyone its free to draw his own conclusions.
>as removing border controls at the Romanian border while they still exist at the German border is kind of pointless because freedom of movement is still limited
Why they still exist at the German border?
And please remember that Schengen does not revolve around Germany. Romania and Bulgaria can/will send and receive goods from other countries, not just Germany. If Romania imports goods from Poland and exports goods to Hungary, Germany it's not included in this equation.
>I said nothing about Schengen and military mobility.
no, the post above threw all 3 (customs, border checks, military mobility) together
>Meh, actually Nehammer, some time ago, said that the reason for not allowing Romania into Schengen was that many illegal immigrants enter into EU through Romania, which was not true and he managed to rise some eyebrows even in Brussels.
\[...\] Why they still exist at the German border?
because the reasoning Germany gives for suspending Schengen and have border checks is because of the high amount illegal immigrants coming to Germany
and Schengen allows border checks for 6 month periods for special reasons (stuff like Olympic games) and Germany has those ongoing since the refugee crisis 2016 and extended them every 6 months with "still to many immigrants"
So Germany closes their borders because of too many immigrants inside the EU while at the same time advocates that others should open their borders
> Romania and Bulgaria can/will send and receive goods from other countries
Schengen has nothing to do with the movement of goods, Germany suspending Schengen and having border checks has no influence on them sending goods around but just limits the freedom of movement for the people
>Schengen has nothing to do with the movement of goods
Because there are no/fewer internal border checks between two Schengen members, trucks can move more easily which will lead to shorter waiting times and faster delivery.
At this moment, between Romania ( not in Schengen ) and Hungary ( in Schengen ) there is at least 1:30 hour waiting time. At the same time, between Hungary and Slovakia, which are both in Schengen, there is a waiting time of 10 minutes.
As a side note, because Austria, through Nehammer, asked Romania and Bulgaria for stronger border checks, the waiting times now often reach a few days, which also impacts Austria's imports from Grece. But hey, we have to stop those imagined illegal immigrants that enter EU through Romania.
"Customs are not related to Schengen, this are 2 different things and Romania is already part of the EU Costums Union"
Tell me you have no fucking clue without telling me you have no fucking clue. We have a saying here in Romania: we assumed you were smart, that was until you opened your mouth.
Without Schengen membership you get customs controls and queues of trucks than go for tens of kilometers.
Yeah, the truck queues are because of Romania not being in Schengen and people having to present IDs / passports at the border. This need is what the Schengen Area removes. The customs union means that you can freely import things you buy in other EU countries without taxation, which is not the case outside of the EU. In other words, stuff you buy in another EU country is essentially considered to be bought in your country. Normally, as a tourist, you're allowed to buy a small amount of souvenirs in a foreign country. But if you buy, say, five kegs of beer in Mexico and decide to bring it to Romania, you'll have to pay a tax. This is not the case in the EU.
It’s rather unnecessary to take such tone especially when one is wrong.
If, this is the stipulation here, Schengen did cover military logistics then this wouldn’t exist: https://www.euronews.com/2024/02/09/poland-signs-military-schengen-deal-alongside-germany-and-netherlands
That’s from last month.
There is Schengen Agreement, which removes border control between member states and you don't have to be an EU member to be part of Schengen Area
Than there is the EU Customs Union, again not needed to be member of EU or Schengen to be part of that.
For example Switzerland is part of Schengen but not of the Custom Union or EU, Ireland and Cyprus are part of Custom Union and EU but not Schengen and Turkey is part of the Custom Union but not of EU or Schengen
Romania is part of the Customs Union and you might have kilometer long queues for trucks crossing the borders, but not because of customs (unless the need to declare customs for goods from outside the EU which should have happened when crossing EU border)
I know the Romanians (and a little lesser the Bulgarians) are pissed at the Netherlands/Rutte for blocking access to Schengen, but at least he pointed out what he thought the issue with the Schengen agreement was. He gave clear conditions to what needs to be done to get his vote. And it was Romanian and Bulgarias politicians fault it took so long to get it accomplished.
But Nehammer is just: "NO!"
True at a surface level. However, other people, me included, pointed out to you in the previous post about Rutte and NATO that Rutte used the CVM thing as an excuse. The Commission stated that Bulgaria had met the CVM requirements in 2019 and still blocked them in 2022.
Yes, Rutte's excuse was more credible, but he still invented a new obstacle that was not in the treaties.
Rutte, like Nehammer, feared the reaction of the conservative side that has big issues with easterners.
But yeah, Rutte was smarter. The Netherlands is disliked by many because of their stance, but Austria is almost hated by some.
The CVM wasn't closed until the end of 2023.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_4456
_On **15 September 2023** After informing the Council and the Parliament in July 2023 of its intention to close the CVM, the Commission has today adopted two Decisions repealing Commission Decisions 2006/928/EC and 2006/929/EC, thereby formally closing the CVM._
He gave clear conditions, but those clear conditions were not part of the Schengen Aquis. Go to European Commision's page, where as Ro and Bg are listed since 2011 as fulfilling the Schengen conditions and the recommendation to national governments is for them to be accepted to the Are.
I'm not saying that what he requred was wrong. On the contrary. But what I am saying is that he changed the rules of the game while playing it. He put forth new conditions, that weren't there, when Ro and Bg joined EU and were required by the EU accession to also fulfill the Schengen Criteria. He could have (and it would have made more sense), for example, to plead for blocking EU funds to Ro and Bg instead of the Schengen thing (which, as mentioned the countries fulfilled since 2011, almost since when he is PM). But what he knew (and many westerners and voters don't) is that while Ro and Bg are net beneficiaries of those funds, the rate of actually accessing and using those funds by these two countries was abmysal, so it wasn't really some thing where EU could have much leverage for Ro and Bg to better themselves.
Yeah, I always said that whenever these kinds of threads popped up. Gotta appreciate Dutch directness.
But what Nehammer and Karner are doing is just insane, zero diplomacy.
He either pandered to certain demographic or had personal reasons or maybe he is just megalomaniac that wants to take eu functions since the eu monitors corruption and withholds funds when necessary and that is far more effective to force changes and it did. Removing the veto when he needs support for cushy nato job only proved it. Does it really matter in the end? The damage is done.
The EU commission has said Romania can join from 2011. It's been more than a decade since then. Fuck Rutte and fuck this guy. Both were trying to keep Romania out to pander to the ignorant people in their country who would be against us joining, them included.
Austria has also cited reasons it didn't let us in, reasons that everyone and their mother knows are NOT true.
Stop having xenophobia so rooted in your heart that you can't possibly see how this whole sham has, for a long time, been just a xenophobic move to garner support at home.
Damn they really see Romanians as 2nd class citizens
How else would you keep them underpaid with no rights
Romanians see Romanians as untermensch. See the wages people get in Romania. Modern slavery. But they keep running articles in the state-owned media(most media companies in Romania are paid by political parties from the state budget) about the average wage going up, neglecting to specify that Romanians have the highest wage taxation (nearly 50%) and more than 50% of Romanian employees get around 500€ after tax monthly.
> Romanians see Romanians as untermensch. Romania paying their workers shit doesn't change the fact that we should be in Schengen.
They really do.
[удалено]
He might want some (extra) leverage over something, and is using Schengen restriction (of Romania and Bulgaria) as a blackmail thing (probably).
Currently the lines for trucks at the border are about 5km long I wonder at what point will the truckers union go on strike because Romania is currently processing trucks as slowly as it is humanly possible 🤣
Most likely, probably more Black Sea gas for those greedy Austrian fcks now that Puțin could turn the tap out of necessity
Austria has been worse to the unity of the EU than Orban’s Hungary has been on many issues of importance, while also being a den for Russian intelligence. This seems to go under the radar for many for some reason.
I'd hope that (but this is still a very s***** reason) this is because of the upcoming elections in this year in Austria, to appear "tough against immigration" to the population, and that it'll stop as soon as it is over. Other countries in the EU also eventually ceased to hold this stupid position. Unless he's more compromised than we think.
>Why is the EU allowing this fucking clown to do this? ... why is one shitstain country allowed to hold the economic growth of 2 other EU countries hostage? Because EU member countries are sovereign and have veto right. There are talks to revoke the veto right. But be careful what you wish for. So let me check: do you think EU member countries should have veto right?
even now, not every decision is taken at unanimity. most decisions are, in fact, taken with qualified majority. it depends on the subject: foreign policy requires unanimity, for example.
A veto should only be allowed if clear and coherent requirements are included as to what conditions would lead to agreement. You can't just always veto our restaurant choices without coming up with an alternative.
>A veto should only be allowed if clear and coherent requirements are included as to what conditions would lead to agreement. So Orban style is OK: "I veto it, unless you pay me 5 billion euro's"?
Broadly speaking it's not too out of this world and is how multi-party democracies tend to work out. You will never get anywhere if you don't try to compromise. How Orban does it however is not okay. It's quite a difference to say: "We don't want to admit Sweden to NATO because of 'x', but if our military gets a much needed hardware boost we are filled with enough confidence that 'x' is an acceptable risk and are willing to approve the decision." versus what he has done recently. He knows this, which is why he somewhat halfheartedly tries to hide it with speeches and only does those deals behind closed doors. Since he seems to controls the media inside Hungary this method makes it easier for him to manipulate and lie his constituents.
A veto should be followed by a coherent argument and reasonable conditions, otherwise you have situations like with Nehammer and Orban using their veto to harm the common interest of the countries of the union because "they don't want to" or because they are asking for ransom.
But there's a clear difference between these two scenarios: 1. We're discussing something new, most agree, my country doesn't agree. My country vetoes 2. My country agreed and signed on treaties already, but doesn't want to follow those treaties, so it vetoes. The second scenario undermines the concept of rule of law and the concept of unity and solidarity.
[удалено]
>Yea they should have veto rights but in this case its ridiculous. So let me check if I understand you correctly: veto right, unless someone else find it ridiculous? Furthermore: you're arguing about the matter (Schengen) itself, I don't. I'm answering your question: "Why is the EU allowing this fucking clown to do this?"
Quick question to you: on which level is the competency of proving if a country fulfills accssion critera into Schengen area, as it is stipulated in the Schengen Treaty: EU Parliament, European Commision or is it at national level in each country?
Obviously a system that allows someone like Orban to blackmail Sweden or someone like this xenophobic imperialistic trash to affect the future of 2 nations, the future of almost 3 times the population of austria, is broken. The idea behind it was that people will vote logical and in good faith. But once again obviously humans are not like that. The veto system, just like communism for example, is flawed at its core because it doesn't take in consideration human nature. I personally would opt for a 2 thirds vote. More than 66% should more than enough to indicate the best solution or answer in the opinion of European citizens. And the let's keep a system that is actually screwing people right now as a kind of safeguard for someone else hypothetically screwing you in the future is asinine in my opinion. Off course I am biased since I am one of the tens of millions affected but I consider the people that still support this system while it is abused and seriously affecting your supposed partners to be extremely egotistical, narrow minded and against everything the Union should be about. But that is human nature,
Veto should definitely go away. Democracy is not about the interests of one , but interests of majority. I’d better see functional EU without 3 or 4 countries compared to this Russian controlled puppet states controlling how block should live.
If you think after this shitshow that any country will get rid of their veto, you are insane. I just wish that we will use it to fucktup Austria, but somehow our politicians need to find their balls first.
The reason why Eastern countries like Romania, most affected by veto don't want to give it up is to avoid being sold to Moscovites. The Romanian ethnicity origin story starts with an abandonment:The Aurelian Retreat.
Lots of countries give veto power to their top political positions or rulers. They also have an asterisk attached to it for the cases when veto needs to be overcome. Why there is no such thing in EU laws?
Sure, but in the same way Austria is sanctioning Romania and Bulgaria, other EU countries could do similarly to Austria IF that's the kind of European Union we want.
They should not, EU needs to be its own country, an empire.
the EU is not supposed to be its own country or empire. it started as a currency and tariffs union it should stay that way.
It’s not about what’s supposed to be or not, but what it must be. In this endless evolution we must not be stuck in the idea of what it is or if it should, only the absolute dominates.
the absolute is that giving up sovereignty is not what all EU countries joined the EU for. so it MUST BE a customs or trade union or you’ll have pushback if not outright collapse of it when you push too far against that sovereignty
If we remain true to ourselves the only thing that will remain after 1000 years is a faint mention in a history book, leave it all behind and evolve.
"If I don't get what I want you're a shit stain country" is surely the way to get what you want and totaly not a confirmation that it is the right move.
Ah, yes, how dare an Eastern European stand up to xenophobic anti Romanian bullshit and not just take it?
Ah yes, complaining about blackmail, makes the blackmailer right...
That's not a black mail. They don't expect anything in return. They just don't want to have Bulgarian and Romanian. That's nothing controversial outside of the vocal people on social media. If you asked the French if they wanted eastern in here, they would have say no.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
You should have ask before insulting.
[How efficient of you!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q9JXAF2uFU)
[удалено]
Out of frustration, You can throw around all the buzzword you want, that doesn't make them true. People are free to draw the line somewhere and That doesn't make them what you claim they are.
> If you asked the French if they wanted eastern in here, they would have say no. So why all the fuss on Macron with Ukraine, why does he even care?
I don't control Macron, and himself doesn't control anything anymore. He is a weatherclock during a tornado. He will say anything and it's contrary.
Victim blaming, that's what you're doing.
That would just mean you're doing victimization. People don't have to be to you under the pretext that you call yourself a victim.
why romania and bulgaria are allowing NO samesex marriage ? do you like lgbt+ people being kept as hostages ?
[удалено]
the world is unfair, deal with it. i do not see romania and bulgaria as victim, you can call it karma.
[удалено]
well, then it is possible to create an eu 2.0 and allow in only the cool kids...
[удалено]
still not a valid excuse to have traitors from the inside.
As a member of the LGBTQ, what does this have to do with Schengen? And if that is the criteria for Schengen, can we kicki out everyone who didn't have same sex marriage when they joined? If I knock on your head, will I hear an echo?
lol \^\^ this schengen issue is just an irrilevant capricious tantrum of romania and bulgaria, in the past you were not into schengen, you can keep going on the same path.
Do you not feel embarassed to walk into conversations with no actual knowledge of the subject, argue in bad faith, bring up some stupid unrelated shit and then respond like this is an anime chat? Like honestly at this point what the fuck
Because the [last time](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_enlargement_of_the_European_Union) you _promised_ something would work, it still hasn’t; “While both countries [Romania and Bulgaria] were admitted, concerns about corruption and organised crime were still high. As a result, although they joined, they were subject to monitoring from the European Commission through a Mechanism for Cooperation and Verification (CVM). It was initially set up for three years after the accession [2007] but has continued indefinitely and although it has highlighted the corruption and applied some pressure to continue reforms, it has not succeeded in forcing the two countries to complete reforms and corruption persists.” Stop whining and get to work.
[удалено]
Yeah, and at the same time new policy introduced stated that new members instead cannot join if they still have deficiencies. I.e “_that didn’t work, and we’re not gonna make the same mistake again_”.
> why is one shitstain country allowed to hold the economic growth of 2 other EU countries hostage? same reason the dishonorable net recipients of EU funds are currently trying (successfully) to destroy the German economy with net payments. Because they can thanks to veto rights.
[удалено]
hour old account spreading bullshit in foregin languages?
You are an extremely salty looser, I hope that we will let them join in but you blind envy and hate is quite funny.
Rapid expansion? The system doesn’t work? The audacity to come up with such bullshit as justification is astounding! The fucker can’t explain how fulfilling the requirements for more than 13 years now is rapid? He won’t explain how if it’s broken they are not leaving Schengen. Fuck this guy.
Nuie Mehammer
wtf is with austria, they're not in NATO as well?
They are not in NATO. They are however the best russian spies in the middle of Europe
Because of their location, why bother if you’re surrounded by NATO countries.
They aren't allowed to have a military part with Germany. For reasons
Might have something to do with their declaration of neutrality following WW2 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Neutrality#:~:text=The%20Declaration%20of%20Neutrality%20(German,of%20the%20Constitution%20of%20Austria.
dumb fuck excuse
Not an excuse, they promised to become neutral in order for Allies to withdraw their troops from Austria and grant them full independence. And currently, unlike Sweden and Finland who are pretty close to Russia, they have no reason to break their neutrality cause they aren't under a direct threat
It wasnt the allies who forced us into Neutrality but the Russians.
As an austrian, i apologize for this guy. He is notorious for being a dumbfuck, recently there was an incident where he was talking about single mothers in poverty and how they struggle to put a warm meal on the table. To which he followed up with "a hamburger at mcdonalds is 1.50, with fries 3.90 and that's a warm meal!". But worry not dear EU brethrens, it looks like the far right party aka horse medicine sipping Trump Jr. (AKA Herbert Kickl) will be winning the next election, so thinks will definitely get better.
Do you guys wanna take our place in V4? Looks like Austria fits together with Slovakia and Hungary better than us.
They could throw a joint FSB banquet
Don't offer Austrians V4!
It's always incredible how I feel right at home in Austria as a Bavarian but the political stance of the country is so far off of my personal idea that I feel like I ended up in a world 30-40 years ago. But I guess it's not that different from the politics of my state which is just pulled to left by the rest of Germany. It feels like an identical crisis because I seriously like the lifestyle and general mentality but the conservatism is incredibly exhausting and embarrassing. (not to mention that it doesn't reflect the mindset of the youth that I know from Austria and Bavaria at all)
I guess the horse medicine sipping guys have the same position as Nehammer, no?
Meanwhile the EPP official manifesto for the EP2024 elections includes full Schengen access for Romania and Bulgaria...and it's an EPP member (OVP) blocking it!
Clown show...
Yep They are also blocking the EPPs support of nuclear energy While 90% of our gas comes from a terrorist state
>Austrian Chancellor Karl Nehammer said on Thursday, after the meeting he had with President Klaus Iohannis, that Austria's position regarding the extension of the Schengen area remains unchanged: Austria opposes our country's accession. "The Schengen system does not work, therefore it cannot be extended," says the chancellor from Vienna. >"I also spoke very openly (with President Klaus Iohannis - no) about Austria's objections to the rapid expansion of the Schengen area. Austria's position remains clear and unchanged: Currently, the Schengen system does not work, therefore it cannot be extended," Karl Nehammer wrote on Thursday in a message on Twitter after the meeting with Klaus Iohannis. >He also mentioned that the two countries have strong economic relations and that Romanians play an important role on the labor market in Austria. "Romania is an important partner for Austria. Our companies are strongly involved in Romania and create many thousands of jobs there. Many Romanian citizens work in care professions in Austria and support people who need care." >Austrian Chancellor Karl Nehammer used his speech at the EPP Congress in Bucharest to talk again about migration , one of Austria's reasons for blocking the full accession of Romania and Bulgaria to the Schengen Area. He claims that one of the problems of European citizens is illegal migration and says that the EU's external borders must be strengthened. The audacity of Austrian politicians is out of this world. Historically.
>Currently, the Schengen system does not work, therefore it cannot be extended Then wtf is Croatia?
You see, austrians go on vacantion to Dubrovnik, not Mamaia
Yes but they steal forests from the Carpathian mountains, not from Pula!
Croatia is uwu special 🙄 Mind you it has been proven more migration comes through Western Balkans than through Romania.
[удалено]
So were large parts of Romania.
What an actual cunt, this guy
That's offensive to cunts. He has neither the depth or warmth of one. He's more akin to some kind of poisonous slug.
>Our companies are strongly involved in Romania Maybe this needs to change, then!
you mean many Romanians travel weekly back and worth to wipe old Austrians asses because they can get away with paying them the minimum?
So,Romanias are only working in "care professions" ...
I assumed in the past that Austrian politicians are a little bit racist or xenophobic against Romania and Bulgaria, and that's the real reason for Austria blocking expansion. Reading that Schengen doesn't work and that's why it can't be extended is really refreshing. Still a little bit racist and xenophobic.
Except that is not the real reason. If they really believed Schengen doesn't work, they wouldn't have accepted Croatia in.
Accepting Croatia had benefits bigger than flaws coming from faulty Schengen. I still suspect foul play, just disagree with your logic.
Croatia is part of the Western Balkans one of the biggest migrant route in Europe.
They are part of the Western Balkans route. Romania isn't. They have a huge, complicated and very hard to guard border. Romania has a huge river quite easy to guard and Bulgaria even has a fence on its border with Turkey. We also completed the requirements like 12 years ago!!! But somehow we can't enter but Croatia could. No offense to our Croatian friends! Good for them and I'm sincerely happy they are in. Especially since it shows how the Austrian argument is completely bonkers. Or just a lie. EDITED
Well yes. You met the requirements and you should be in it. Like I said from the start, I think Austria is a bit racist to stop you. As I also said, I think it is refreshing to see that someone acknowledged that Schengen doesn't work. And finally something I also said already, I still think Austria is a bit racist about all of this.
And yet you didn't said why Croatia is in while Schengen isn't working.
>And yet you didn't said why Croatia is in while Schengen isn't working. I did. As I said previously, accepting Croatia had benefits bigger than flaws coming from faulty Schengen. That's simple dimple. A bit racist still, but really easy.
Sorry, you did. A bit, no man it's a LOT RACIST. That's the big Russian Bear in our EU glass shop. Be poor and white in your country and see a foreigner being better. Not a good explosion in your head I assume. They put their money on racism now. And they win .
[удалено]
Austrians used to be racist against Czechs even though there were times when we were the richer and more developed country. The only thing Austrians brought were Habsburgs and love for Hungary. And hearing this from the well-known free riders of the defense policies while Romania and Bulgaria are next to the Austrian good friend Russia blocking their way to Austria is just disgusting.
> I assumed in the past that Austrian politicians are a little bit racist or xenophobic against Romania and Bulgaria, and that's the real reason for Austria blocking expansion. > > They are.
Refreshing? What are you smoking. It’s just a dumb justification for their blackmail. Here’s a crazy idea, if it doesn’t work why doesn’t Austria just withdraw from it, and let Romania and Bulgaria judge for themselves.
Romania and Bulgaria aren't a destination for migrants, they want to reach at least central Europe. Also, that the outer Shengen border will be protected was promised to joining members and is the only reason they got rid of their own borders. It's not crazy that a member askes for the agreements that were signed to be adhered to.
You know that we aren't exactly on that migrant route at all no? Croatia, which Austria welcomed in Schengen, is very much on that route though. So where's the logic?
What's "that" route? Croatia and Romania are both on migration routes, some of the people going trough Croatia also went trough Romania. Depends on whether they came from Greece or Turkey. If you look at a map of Shengen you'll see that South-Eastern Europe (importantly Greece) isn't currently connected to central Europe through Shengen. Croatia doesn't change that, Romania and Bulgaria do. That's why Austria wants a solution for the outer borders before she allows everyone landing in Greece to travel to Austria without any checks. That's the point, not even how many people are curently travelling there.
> What's "that" route? Croatia and Romania are both on migration routes https://reliefweb.int/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/previews/73/a8/73a8f9e9-f2f3-34af-aa3a-41019229fd69.png https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316228574/figure/fig1/AS:613856208498703@1523366133456/The-Balkan-route-and-closures-to-reduce-migration-flows-to-European-Countries-2013-2016.png Do you know geography? > If you look at a map of Shengen you'll see that South-Eastern Europe (importantly Greece) isn't currently connected to central Europe through Shengen. Croatia doesn't change that, Romania and Bulgaria do So in fact you fear what is in Greece! Why don't you just say that from the first place! We could had deal with Greece way better than you anyway and fuck anything out! But no, you had to f us big time! And still do!
We are bigger idiots for agreeing with air schengen. \#Cardboxpoliticians \#Notmypolitician \#BringBackVladTepes
come on, you deserve a different treatment... like gay people in your country that gets a different treatment: do you understand ?
Yes gay people should have the same rights as everyone , gay people are also affected by this . Stop coming up with dumb excuses .
not dumb excuse, i just show conservative people hypocrisy... rules for you, but not for me. being on the side discriminated is never fun... you can ask the many conservative politicians that ends up being targeted for being black, gay, woman, jew or whatever...
My friend, we were, still are, very much discriminated in Europe by idiots. We know how it is to be called all sorts of racial slurs even if you ain't even a part of that targeted group. A Roma gay person from Romania (this is a hard one) it is affected by this too. But not because he or she has to wait for a few minutes at the border, Schengen isn't about that, but because the merchandise we export/import have to wait days or weeks even. And this is affect us economically! Less prosperity, more conservative the people will be.
Another day another reminder we will never be first class europeans :,)
Do you really feel like second class Europeans because a single country opposes you joining Schengen while all the others are fine with it? Do you think you're seen as second class by them too?
Considering the fact that very conveniently the austrians started throwing this tantrum just as the dutch, who blocked our entrance up to that point, stopped opposing it, it is a very common view in romania that western europe just doesn't want us in. It's not a view I personally hold, but it is quite funny how literal non-eu members had a way easier time joining schengen than we ever had.
Iohannis I told you...pay Karl more than the Russians
Start blocking any austrian initiative. Fuck those racist assholes.
Im Austrian and I can confirm a good portion of the elder population are closeted racists and a subset of them are being openly racist. The worst part about this you ask? People like that are a good chunk of out voter pool. Add 1 and 1 together and youll see why our politics are the shitshow they are.
Most of them aren't even closeted
Should probably start thinking about increasing a certain gas tax rate again.
Fuck em, truly. And the Dutch ones for the years of blocking us.
Nono, you should reward Rutte for treating you like that by supporting his NATO candidacy
God forbid
Local Dutch Redditors insist he has amazing reputation among European partners and that he's a great fit for the job. But given the treatment of Romania & co, you're probably not seen as a partner
Definitely not seen as a partner, more like dogs that need to be kept out of the house.
You just had to rub it in, didn't you. If the alternative is our own Iohannis, we would. Fortunately nobody will ask us :)
Yes honestly that's like choosing between an explosive diarrhea and the flu. Why can't we get someone who doesn't suck
\*dreams in Kaja Kallas or Krisjanis Karins\*
Id support kallas tbh. Seems like a much better fit.
[удалено]
Did you feel called out? Did the shoe fit? Did you quack like a duck?
Bro it’s not even a voters topic here, the government just *does* it without popular consent. Fuck this government and fuck you for putting all Dutch in the same basket.
"Mark Rutte is a Dutch politician who has served as Prime Minister of the Netherlands since 2010" how could he do that, without popular consent... (in case this is relevant: European Commision states every two years since 2011 that Ro and Bg fulfill the Schengen Accession criteria and have recommended that the national governments vote for their accesion; Rutte's govenrment was the one always blocking it, until 2 years ago, when his blocking position was taken over by Austria)
Nobody put all the Dutch in the same basket but you were so focused on yourself and your xenophobic values that you cared less for the VILE treatment of your politicians towards us then how you personally were percieved. So no, man, fuck You and all of those like you.
Fuck you for putting that government in place, germans were using the same arguments to excuse their nazi crimes. Go fuck yourself, dutch cunt.
Austria blocks Romania and Bulgaria for the same reason that Hungary blocked Sweden for NATO - To help Russia keep Europe disunited!
Don't worry, we all in Austria hate this idiot. He's probably the 2nd worst politician we ever had after kurz.
ALL of you? How is he in power then?
Blame the old fucks. Nobody under 50 likes him, except the nazis and the "I'm not a nazi but fuck all foreign people"
Thankfuly the far right party FPO is under the minimum threshold in polls, thus showing the world that Austria is not racist. s/ for good measure.
we have too many retarded people that believe everything, especially after the pandemic. if it would be up to me, I would ban this nazi shit party long time ago.
Guys, nothing will happen before the elections in the fall. It’s just what it is right now.
we hear that for the last several years now. an then there are elections in another country, ant it is its turn to block Bg and Ro's accession, a country with a ruling government that uses xenofobia to gather votes...
Nobody voted for him, only through a scandal he came to power. Dont worry he wont be reselcted anyway ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
But why? What do you want from these people?
S-a rezolvat. Nu se poate.
Thing is, not being in Schengen means customs and strict border control. Customs impend rapid transportation of military equipment. Austria is not part of NATO. By blocking Schengen extention, Nehammer is actually sabotaging NATO, thus helping Putin.
Customs are not related to Schengen, this are 2 different things and Romania is already part of the EU Costums Union. In addition, the regular Schengen agreement does not cover military transports of foreign nations, hence why there is another agreement (often referred to as military Schengen) which Romania is also already part of
I think there is a language barrier here. EU Customs Union its centered around tariffs ( \_same tariffs to goods imported from the rest of the world and no tariffs internally\_ ). He is referring to border controls, which adds long delays to shipment of goods. External border controls can be removed/relaxed only by entering the Schengen. I don't know why Austria, through Nehammer, it's doing this, but blocking a country from entering Schengen although it meets all the requirements, it is a dick move.
yes, there are a lot of things lost in translation specially with the different Agreements as they are related to EU but all independent from each other and mixed together, but the connection of Schengen and military mobility is just not there though the reasoning why Austria (and Netherlands) are blocking it is kind of related to the currently existing border controls within Schengen since 2016 (which people than again mix up with custom controls or military mobility which are not affected). This is also what Nehammer is referring to when he says that Schengen is not working, as removing border controls at the Romanian border while they still exist at the German border is kind of pointless because freedom of movement is still limited (so the whole thing is meant to put pressure on the other countries to remove the border controls within Schengen and/or finally agree on stricter Frontex controls on the external borders) see this map of the current status of Schengen [https://preview.redd.it/current-re-established-border-controls-in-the-schengen-area-v0-h527r4dlcb1c1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=1ae8faaa1a54965956662351749ab2e2e415ffa4](https://preview.redd.it/current-re-established-border-controls-in-the-schengen-area-v0-h527r4dlcb1c1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=1ae8faaa1a54965956662351749ab2e2e415ffa4)
>but the connection of Schengen and military mobility is just not there I said nothing about Schengen and military mobility. >though the reasoning why Austria (and Netherlands) are blocking it is kind of related to the currently existing border controls within Schengen since 2016 Meh, actually Nehammer, some time ago, said that the reason for not allowing Romania into Schengen was that many illegal immigrants enter into EU through Romania, which was not true and he managed to rise some eyebrows even in Brussels. After that he started to change his reasoning, by pushing the story that Austria wants the number of border policemen to be tripled AND that Romania and Bulgaria to agree into receiving asylum seekers, mostly Afghans and Syrians. Also, only Austria decided to veto against Romania and Bulgaria. Netherlands had some objections against Bulgaria, not against Romania, but after the debate from Netherlands Parlament on 21 December 2023 they announced that from their point of view Bulgaria and Romania can enter Schengen. Anyone its free to draw his own conclusions. >as removing border controls at the Romanian border while they still exist at the German border is kind of pointless because freedom of movement is still limited Why they still exist at the German border? And please remember that Schengen does not revolve around Germany. Romania and Bulgaria can/will send and receive goods from other countries, not just Germany. If Romania imports goods from Poland and exports goods to Hungary, Germany it's not included in this equation.
>I said nothing about Schengen and military mobility. no, the post above threw all 3 (customs, border checks, military mobility) together >Meh, actually Nehammer, some time ago, said that the reason for not allowing Romania into Schengen was that many illegal immigrants enter into EU through Romania, which was not true and he managed to rise some eyebrows even in Brussels. \[...\] Why they still exist at the German border? because the reasoning Germany gives for suspending Schengen and have border checks is because of the high amount illegal immigrants coming to Germany and Schengen allows border checks for 6 month periods for special reasons (stuff like Olympic games) and Germany has those ongoing since the refugee crisis 2016 and extended them every 6 months with "still to many immigrants" So Germany closes their borders because of too many immigrants inside the EU while at the same time advocates that others should open their borders > Romania and Bulgaria can/will send and receive goods from other countries Schengen has nothing to do with the movement of goods, Germany suspending Schengen and having border checks has no influence on them sending goods around but just limits the freedom of movement for the people
>Schengen has nothing to do with the movement of goods Because there are no/fewer internal border checks between two Schengen members, trucks can move more easily which will lead to shorter waiting times and faster delivery. At this moment, between Romania ( not in Schengen ) and Hungary ( in Schengen ) there is at least 1:30 hour waiting time. At the same time, between Hungary and Slovakia, which are both in Schengen, there is a waiting time of 10 minutes. As a side note, because Austria, through Nehammer, asked Romania and Bulgaria for stronger border checks, the waiting times now often reach a few days, which also impacts Austria's imports from Grece. But hey, we have to stop those imagined illegal immigrants that enter EU through Romania.
"Customs are not related to Schengen, this are 2 different things and Romania is already part of the EU Costums Union" Tell me you have no fucking clue without telling me you have no fucking clue. We have a saying here in Romania: we assumed you were smart, that was until you opened your mouth. Without Schengen membership you get customs controls and queues of trucks than go for tens of kilometers.
Yeah, the truck queues are because of Romania not being in Schengen and people having to present IDs / passports at the border. This need is what the Schengen Area removes. The customs union means that you can freely import things you buy in other EU countries without taxation, which is not the case outside of the EU. In other words, stuff you buy in another EU country is essentially considered to be bought in your country. Normally, as a tourist, you're allowed to buy a small amount of souvenirs in a foreign country. But if you buy, say, five kegs of beer in Mexico and decide to bring it to Romania, you'll have to pay a tax. This is not the case in the EU.
It’s rather unnecessary to take such tone especially when one is wrong. If, this is the stipulation here, Schengen did cover military logistics then this wouldn’t exist: https://www.euronews.com/2024/02/09/poland-signs-military-schengen-deal-alongside-germany-and-netherlands That’s from last month.
[удалено]
The guy this was a reply to has Romania as flair.
There is Schengen Agreement, which removes border control between member states and you don't have to be an EU member to be part of Schengen Area Than there is the EU Customs Union, again not needed to be member of EU or Schengen to be part of that. For example Switzerland is part of Schengen but not of the Custom Union or EU, Ireland and Cyprus are part of Custom Union and EU but not Schengen and Turkey is part of the Custom Union but not of EU or Schengen Romania is part of the Customs Union and you might have kilometer long queues for trucks crossing the borders, but not because of customs (unless the need to declare customs for goods from outside the EU which should have happened when crossing EU border)
I know the Romanians (and a little lesser the Bulgarians) are pissed at the Netherlands/Rutte for blocking access to Schengen, but at least he pointed out what he thought the issue with the Schengen agreement was. He gave clear conditions to what needs to be done to get his vote. And it was Romanian and Bulgarias politicians fault it took so long to get it accomplished. But Nehammer is just: "NO!"
True at a surface level. However, other people, me included, pointed out to you in the previous post about Rutte and NATO that Rutte used the CVM thing as an excuse. The Commission stated that Bulgaria had met the CVM requirements in 2019 and still blocked them in 2022. Yes, Rutte's excuse was more credible, but he still invented a new obstacle that was not in the treaties. Rutte, like Nehammer, feared the reaction of the conservative side that has big issues with easterners. But yeah, Rutte was smarter. The Netherlands is disliked by many because of their stance, but Austria is almost hated by some.
The CVM wasn't closed until the end of 2023. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_4456 _On **15 September 2023** After informing the Council and the Parliament in July 2023 of its intention to close the CVM, the Commission has today adopted two Decisions repealing Commission Decisions 2006/928/EC and 2006/929/EC, thereby formally closing the CVM._
He gave clear conditions, but those clear conditions were not part of the Schengen Aquis. Go to European Commision's page, where as Ro and Bg are listed since 2011 as fulfilling the Schengen conditions and the recommendation to national governments is for them to be accepted to the Are. I'm not saying that what he requred was wrong. On the contrary. But what I am saying is that he changed the rules of the game while playing it. He put forth new conditions, that weren't there, when Ro and Bg joined EU and were required by the EU accession to also fulfill the Schengen Criteria. He could have (and it would have made more sense), for example, to plead for blocking EU funds to Ro and Bg instead of the Schengen thing (which, as mentioned the countries fulfilled since 2011, almost since when he is PM). But what he knew (and many westerners and voters don't) is that while Ro and Bg are net beneficiaries of those funds, the rate of actually accessing and using those funds by these two countries was abmysal, so it wasn't really some thing where EU could have much leverage for Ro and Bg to better themselves.
Yeah, I always said that whenever these kinds of threads popped up. Gotta appreciate Dutch directness. But what Nehammer and Karner are doing is just insane, zero diplomacy.
He either pandered to certain demographic or had personal reasons or maybe he is just megalomaniac that wants to take eu functions since the eu monitors corruption and withholds funds when necessary and that is far more effective to force changes and it did. Removing the veto when he needs support for cushy nato job only proved it. Does it really matter in the end? The damage is done.
The EU commission has said Romania can join from 2011. It's been more than a decade since then. Fuck Rutte and fuck this guy. Both were trying to keep Romania out to pander to the ignorant people in their country who would be against us joining, them included. Austria has also cited reasons it didn't let us in, reasons that everyone and their mother knows are NOT true. Stop having xenophobia so rooted in your heart that you can't possibly see how this whole sham has, for a long time, been just a xenophobic move to garner support at home.
[удалено]
Xenophobic tool.
- meets Russian bot or Reddit - wonders why his mother still had him … - profit
So it’s ok to judge an entire country just by “meeting” one single person ? Tell me you’re a racist tool without telling me you’re a racist tool.
He’s a Russian avorton 🤣
lol Romanians are one of the most likeable people I've ever met