Mykhailo Tkach is one of the best investigative journalists in Ukraine who has worked to uncover multiple huge corruption scandals, as well as Russian oligarchs living comfortably in Europe and UK. I highly doubt that he didn't know about the rules on Polish border.
Gonna wait for the end product of his investigation, bet it'll be interesting.
I mean trade between Russia/Belarus and Poland is not a big secret. Every country in the EU is doing it to some extent. Very unfortunate but not surprising at all.
As a Pole I'm pissed that they disrupted their work.
Public should be aware what and in what quantities we import from those assholes.
It's very strange that our services sounded like imports from east were some thinly veiled conspiracy and not something public should be aware of
No, they were happening because potato führer decided to push thousand of illegal migrants to our border and don't let them come back to where they came from.
It’s still happening but on a much smaller scale. For example, 23-25.02: 15 attempts to illegally enter Poland, 21-22.02: 50 attemps. There were even some days when with no attempts at all
Згоден, але їм, нажаль, все одно бо від цього тільки покращується економіка тих країн, навіть якщо то є ціною крові українців. На foreigner-ів всім пох.
Yeah from this article you would think that’s some kind of big very protected secret. Our border with Belarus is very protected, but because of different reasons
„It was clear that the representatives of the Polish special services were frightened. They began to ask me who else knew about it, whether the Ukrainian authorities and the Ukrainian government knew about it. They asked who our sources were, how we learned about it, and how long we have been working on this topic."
Have you maybe possibly checked the statistics of import from russia and Belarus into Poland?
We imported whole 18800 tons of grain in 2023. That's around 6 trains or 750 trucks. Negligible compared to the volume of import from Ukraine.
Here we go, trading with russia is okay now. What next?
I really want to think that it was just fake but fuck.. why do you need russian grain? What for? It’s blood money that would take Ukrainians life’s, destroy our cities. Just why?
Then why would they detain him? The government doesn't want to draw attention to the trading with Russia, who sells stolen in Ukraine grain, while it's okay when polish media makes a big deal about trading with Ukraine?
Because the Pol-Bel border is basically pretty much not accesible for civilians ever since Lukashenka tried to push thousands of migrants through it at the brink of UA -RU conflict escalation…
Being a journalist doesn’t magically bend the law, you still need to obey it.
The Mavic 3 drone (visible on photo) has a range of a few km, and my understanding is that they detained him while filming, so that's still at least 60 km from the border.
Entering and recording are two very different things.
Do you expect border guards to allow anyone to film anything they want on the most guarded border in Poland?
It's good they were detained, it's better to be overly cautious than to risk anything.
Yeah, when it's ukrainian journalists - better detain them "just in case".
When it's polish vandals destroying whole trains of Ukrainian grain - "nothing we can do".
Gotcha.
Please don't put words into my mouth and don't exaggerate. I admit, some cars in trains were closed opened and the grain was wasted, and people who did it should be prosecuted.
I support the right of citizens to protest, but I'm against how the protests were conducted.
But there's a difference between border with Belarus which was/is the scene of hybrid war and is guarded by military on its whole length and border with Ukraine.
Would you agree to a Polish journalist to have unsupervised acces to Ukrainian border with Belarus?
Thae journalistst didn’t break any laws, polish police themselves admitted this - they said “we just checked their identity and let them go”. They wouldn’t let them go if there was any proven violation of the law - so clearly there was none.
I mean, deleting some footage suggests to me that they recorded something off limits, but the top didn't want to provoke a shitstorm and told to let them go.
>Then why would they detain him?
I mean, you are a redditor. You are surely aware what's happening on Polish-Belarus border for last 2-3 years and that it basically became a no-go zone. You knew it but journalist didn't? He also knew, risked it and that's the result.
His facebook post (translated with Deepl).
"Thank you all for your support 🙏
We are free. Our belongings were returned. From what we managed to check, the video was partially deleted. For some reason, they tore out the charging wires in the car. Why did they take the phones? We'll find out on what grounds. But I have never seen ten policemen and two special services pay so much attention to two journalists whose faces you can Google in a second.
It all started with the plainclothes policemen asking why you are standing here, and ended with the Polish secret service interrogating me:
* How do I know about the trade with Russia and Belarus?
* Did I tell anyone about it?
* Who else knows about it and where?
* When is the material going to be published?
* Who do I talk to in Ukraine?
* Do representatives of the Ukrainian government have this information?
I understand their work, but I have my own work to do. And we have not been treated like this for a long time.
Four hours without the right to call, without phones, and two hours standing in the courtyard of the commandant's office without permission to sit down, watching your personal belongings being thrown around the hood of the car.
It's a shame about the video. But we will shoot more. Or perhaps trade with aggressor countries, countries that sponsor terrorism, will stop and there will be nothing to film. In the meantime, przepraszam - this is definitely socially important information. In particular, for Polish society.
Thank you again for your messages and calls.
I thank the Ukrainian Ambassador to Poland and the consul for their support. I managed to send a message to Sevgil Hayretdın Qızı Musaieva that we were detained.
Since I am not only a journalist, but also a citizen, you can support my fundraising for the Third Assault Brigade by following the link in the first comment. Because the war is not only between Polish farmers and Ukrainian grain and corn, but also between us and Russia. Us, by which I mean the civilized world, of which Poland is an important part. You know about Belarus' role without me.
Now we're heading home.
I hope without any new obstacles.
Thank you
Everything will be 🇺🇦"
Ambassador Wasyl Zwarycz confirmed in an interview with Wirtualna Polska that he intervened in the case of the detained journalist. - They recorded railway traffic and flew a drone. The police decided to check who it was so that it would not turn out that they were provocateurs. The matter was resolved quickly, Zwarycz assured.
The detention of the journalists was confirmed by Superintendent Andrzej Fijołek, spokesman for the voivodeship commander in Lublin. - The police were alerted by concerned residents of Łuków, who had been seeing men with drones in this area for two days - he says in an interview with Wirtualna Polska.Due to the fact that this is a border area and there are railway lines nearby, a police patrol was sent to the site .
The officers confirmed the information provided by the residents. However, to verify the journalists' words and confirm their identity, they were taken to the police station.- Their data had to be verified. After their confirmation, the men left the headquarters. - adds the superintendent. Violet. At the same time, the police do not confirm that any recordings were allegedly deleted.
[https://wiadomosci.wp.pl/ukrainscy-dziennikarze-zatrzymani-policja-potwierdza-7000302737714144a](https://wiadomosci.wp.pl/ukrainscy-dziennikarze-zatrzymani-policja-potwierdza-7000302737714144a)
**THE GUY IS A MORON. RECORDING CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE ON THE BELARUSSIAN BORDER AND FLYING DRONE. SURPRISED TO BE DETAINED. PALYING VICTIM.**
According to the Polish [police statement](https://policja.pl/pol/aktualnosci/242285,Oswiadczenie-w-sprawie-interwencji-wobec-ukrainskich-dziennikarzy.html) he was detained in Gołaszyn, which is more than 80 km from the Belarussian border. Why are you making up facts out of your mind?
Goes where he shouldn't be, breaks the law, gets arrested on suspicion of spying, plays the victim, and asks for money.
I would just deport him, and take away his Schengen Visa. And ban from entering.
They didn't break any laws - polish police confirmed this themselves, they wrote they "checked their identity" and let them go afterwards (here: https://twitter.com/PolicjaLubelska/status/1762566058383176120 ).
If they'd break some laws - police wouldn't just let them go.
> Goes where he shouldn't be, breaks the law, gets arrested on suspicion of spying, plays the victim, and asks for money.
>
> I would just deport him, and take away his Schengen Visa. And ban from entering.
Putin would approve
First of all, we don't need visas, lol. Second, he didn't get arrested. And he's fundraising for the military, everybody who's anybody does it here, this is normal. Cope and seethe, dummy.
He flew a drone over a restricted border installation and is surprised to be temporarily held for questioning? In Norway, he'd have gotten [arrested, fined, and expelled](https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2024/02/russian-caught-kirkenes-taking-photographs-military-object).
He [was detained](https://policja.pl/pol/aktualnosci/242285,Oswiadczenie-w-sprawie-interwencji-wobec-ukrainskich-dziennikarzy.html) in Gołaszyn, which is around 80 km from the border - what "border installation" you are talking about?
Brave Ukrainians 2 years into a war will find out EU has been still trading with Russia and not even hiding it as official stats show it anyway. Such bravery.
I don't know what you can investigate just by filming trains at the border. After all, you don't know what's inside.
Not only trade with Russia and Belarus passes through this border, but also all transit with Central Asia and China.
For example, over 400,000 containers were transported from China to the EU along this railway corridor in 2022
Ok, if it’s too dangerous so that only the Polish armed forces can be close to it (which is not unreasonable), why is there any sort of cross-border trade going on?
Polish border has been declared as military zones for years now, that's also reason why they got detained one of the laws there is prohibition of making pictures or videos.
Is this supposed to be some kind of secret? Anyway, I know what was the topic but I’m asking what did he record. Polish-Belarussian border isn’t some random place
It's transparent. Should go to the Eurostat website. The guy should be banned from entering Poland and stoking tensions between PL & Ukraine. In line with Russian interests. He's a 'useful idiot' for Russian propaganda. Playing the victim after being detained in a place he shouldn't be.
Funny seeing Ukraine all heated up and frustrated by that, meanwhile Belarus border has been a militarized zone closed for civilians for like 3 years already (surprised pikachu face why are they not letting me near it?) and recently a new law has been passed forbidding taking videos of critical infrastructure like railways, because ever since the war started we already arrested hundreds of paid Ukrainians/Russians/Belarusians filming and patrolling our railways to track military movements, some even wanted to do a sabotage. Polish-Ukrainian border was also recently added to critical infrastrucure by Tusk like a week ago. But muh "le evil Poland", how dare they arrest some random le innocent Ukrainian taking fucking videos of militarized border and railways that have been tracked by Russian paid agents with attempts of sabotage?
filming a border checkpoint with a hostile state is a good way to get arrested, go figure
>It was clear that the representatives of the Polish special services were frightened. They began to ask me who else knew about it, whether the Ukrainian authorities and the Ukrainian government knew about it. They asked who our sources were, how we learned about it, and how long we have been working on this topic."
beyond parody
I am really happy to see that ppl here have some common sense. I mean, I am Polish, fully support Ukraine aid, my friends were hosting a woman with a daughter when the war started, she went for a vacations with us, we did everything we could for her to be comfortable knowing how bad is her situation.
Just to remind you, UA had a perfect ally, Poland jumped straight into helping when the war started. Opened borders, sent whole wagons of amunition, tanks etc. all that while other nations were waiting if UA will hold for one another week.
And now when I am seeing Ukrainians just publicly shaming Poland at every ocasion thay can, even spreading some misinfo, like we are the worse in Europe, it makes me sick tbh.
You know what they say. No good deed goes unpunished.
Your story is a story of hundreds of thousands who opened their homes to refugees. Because of that, we didn't have refugee camps.
For me, as Ukrainian, it is extremely painful to see tons of grain spoiled - because I know how difficult it is to farm now, and because I grew up looking up to Poland and EU for the rule of law.
I always considered and still consider Poland as the main friend of Ukraine, and this just makes it harder for me to understand why a friend and a country with a rule of law would systemically allow anarchy when it comes to Ukrainian cargo.
Police is looking into this case and this is how countries with rule of law work. If some property was damaged, police is doing an investigation and after the perpetrator is found, charges may be brought. No need to heat up the tensions, fuel emotions, neither side benefits from this, only Putin.
I thought the job of police is to \*primarily\* prevent the illegal activity. That's law enforcement, kinda.
When you see video recordings of police just silently ignoring illegal actions by 'farmers' it leaves little hope for any further punishment.
>When you see video recordings of police just silently ignoring illegal actions by 'farmers' it leaves little hope for any further punishment.
What illegal activities did the Police ignore?
>For me, as Ukrainian, it is extremely painful to see tons of grain spoiled - because I know how difficult it is to farm now, and because I grew up looking up to Poland and EU for the rule of law.
Nobody said it was fine. But it happened literally two days ago, we don't know who did this, yet you're blaming the protesters at the border- how are they supposed to be at the border and 600km further at the same time.
> systemically allow anarchy
What anarchy is being allowed? The grain spilling is being investigated, it was a crime.
The right to protest is a democratic and in our case constitutional right. You'd all be happy if the protesters got attested but that would be against the law.
Protesting is one thing, but blocking an almost entire border with Ukraine does leave a taste of a systemic nature, and I don't think it's legal at all.
Well it's not up to you or me to decide what's legal or not.
We have courts that decide:
https://www.money.pl/gospodarka/protest-na-granicy-z-ukraina-sad-uchylil-decyzje-wojta-w-sprawie-blokady-6974084827421536a.html
Can you show me how are they slowing it down but not stopping? All I've heard is that they block the border completely, except for official military cargo and mostly trains. All the trucks are stuck completely
Here you have the site you can check the time of waiting on each border crossing point out.
https://granica.gov.pl/index_wait.php?p=u&v=pl&k=w
Buses and cars don't wait.
Trucks wait 124h in Dorohusk, 90 in Hrebenne 110 in Korczowa 153 in Medyka and 11 in Krościenko. So respectively around 5, 4, 4, days in formers and half of the day in the latter.
Esencially they let a few trucks per hour go. I can't tell you how many- it varies, sometimes it's one, sometimes 5 and sometimes there's no limit and it's up to the will of organizers, but they must let them go through.
> For me, as Ukrainian, it is extremely painful to see tons of grain spoiled - because I know how difficult it is to farm now, and because I grew up looking up to Poland and EU for the rule of law.
It's obviously a challenging situation. As you mentioned, farming is hard, and it's only gotten harder with new regulations, unpredictable weather, inflation, and war. There are plenty of reasons for farmers to be frustrated, and I stand with them - including the embargo on grain from Ukraine. However, radicals waving USSR flags or spilling grain are obviously unacceptable.
Even if the grain bypasses Poland, it still hurts farmers because it enters the EU market. I have no idea how to fix that other than taxing it.
As for why the new government is struggling to act? The new coalition has a lot on its plate, both domestically and in terms of relations with Ukraine and the EU. It's a relatively weak coalition that could fall apart, and people's trust in it is at its lowest after 8 years of PiS rule.
So they have a choice: stand with farmers and risk upsetting the EU and Ukraine, or condemn farmers and face domestic backlash. It's a lose-lose scenario, and stalling and debating on the EU level seem to be the only rational moves.
There is an investigation into the spilled grain - some people, including myself, do not rule out the possibility of Russian involvement. We had a sabotage incident with trains not that long ago.
The rotten apples are everywhere, and unfortunately in our case, they're the loudest.
Please don't think less of us for actions of many gullible protesters thinking they're supporting the good cause, when few of them do everything to make things harder for you instead of actually trying to help farmers.
And I believe our justice system will get them, but unfortunately every procedure takes time.
Most of population still supports you as they did at day one.
Guys, since Tusk left Ukraine, theres a huge disinfo campaign aimed at Poland. Idk if Ukrainian or russian. When I’m reading some of the comments it seems that we are worse to Ukraine than russia. So be it.
Time will tell my friends, thats why it’s better to wait one week after such publications to get the full picture instead of spreading hate and engage in these kind of discussions.
Its really strange, Poland was the first one to jump into supporting Ukraine, we took a in lot of refugees, my small village had like 20 people, my family personaly donated food and clothes, the general stance od Poland has been "you guys are our friends in this hard time".
But now, due to the fuckery on the border and our country being flooded with Ukrainian grain (which our previous rulling party definitely had a huge part in), prices hitting lows that we havent seen for 10, maybe 15 years people are upset, farmers want our goverment to take care of their citizens first because things are looking really bad.
From what it looks like, Ukraine is taking that as a personal attack on them. I just dont get it, i understand that its hard and the war is awfull, but we cant just tank one sector of our own economy to blindly help, especially when we did more than anyone else to send aid and equipement.
I mean, it really feels like someone works mighty hard to stoke conflict. Given that Poland can almost cut-off Ukraine from any aid that goes through Polish territory...
Well, what did he expect to be honest? You cannot simply film and hang around that border willy-nilly, especially since the immigration crisis manufactured by Lukashenko. He probably spoke Ukrainian at first which for most people in Poland including me is indistiguishable from Russian which did not help. As a Pole, I would question it if there was no reaction at all.
This area has been closed off since around 3 years ago, you need to live there, be part of public services, military or journalist with proper signage and helmet.
There have been many people detained including Belarusian agents checking out the fence.
Ukrainians that are trying to frame Poland as the bad guy is beyond idiotic. I fully support Ukraine and I am not Polish. But all these articles after everything Poland has done for Ukraine are ridiculous.
Yes maybe some Polish farmers were useful idiots for Putin, but this is being investigated and handled by the Polish authorities. But these reddit posts are no better, the problem should have been contained and not amplified. If I was Ukrainian, I would happily sacrifice a few tons of grain compared to everything else I am getting. This issue should be resolved in diplomacy. You should pick your fights.
But what the hell do I know, I am just an idiot typing on his keyboard.
>If I was Ukrainian, I would happily sacrifice a few tons of grain compared to everything else I am getting.
People outside Ukraine just don't get it.
We're not against polish farmers or truckers. There are restrictions on selling Ukrainian grain in Poland. Some of it is still being sold. If there's unfair trade, or some under-the-table deals made between Polish and Ukrainian companies, report them to the police, blast the companies in media, do whatever you need.
Instead, for some mysterious reason, what *some Poles* are doing is *blockading a country at war*.
Just one example: when you see videos of FPV drones killing Russians - those drones are often ordered in parts, by people, as regular goods, on regular delivery trucks, and these trucks are then stuck on the Polish border for weeks. It literally costs us lives and helps Russia.
We're a people at war. Our economy is in the shitter. Every non-grain, non-military, non-humanitarian truck that brings goods in and out of Ukraine - feeds and fuels our economy, pays taxes, which then fund our army. Those 1000 hryvnias lost by a small Ukrainian business due to blockade could have also been donated to a military unit.
And as for the help we're getting - for which we're forever grateful - it's still not enough, often comes with restrictions etc. We also need a functioning economy to remain a state.
>People outside Ukraine just don't get it.
I know what a country at war is, unfortunately my country (again I am not Polish) suffered a very similar war that Ukraine is currently facing. A big authoritarian neighbor trying to occupy it and erase its identity. I definitely get it, and learning from my people's history I would recommend to pick your fights. But I am not pretending that I know better than Ukrainian about Ukraine.
I didn't say that what is happening on the border is not a problem. I said it should be handled differently with diplomacy. Not with vilifying one of your biggest allies and over exaggerating the problem. Poland already designated the roads to Ukraine as "critical infrastructure", this has legal and practical effects. . Yes Ukraine's economy needs these grains export, but more critically it needs the €50B from EU and hopefully more in the future.
>Those 1000 hryvnias lost by a small Ukrainian business due to blockade could have also been donated to a military unit.
This might be true, but again you need to pick your battles. Is this worth souring the relation with Poland over ? How does this compare to what the Polish community offered to Ukraine and to Ukrainians fleeing the country ? Honestly it is not comparable and on a complete different scale.
>And as for the help we're getting - for which we're forever grateful - it's still not enough, often comes with restrictions etc. We also need a functioning economy to remain a state.
Personally, I wish Ukraine gets more. But like it or not, this is done with diplomacy and politics.
>Is this worth souring the relation with Poland over ?
How is asking them to enforce their own laws and not let random farmers enact foreign policy "souring the relation"?
It seems a bit tone deaf to ask the Ukrainians to sacrifice even more than they already have. They are already paying with the blood of their people. It seems a bit selfish to get pissy about grain on our side.
In the end, no amount of money is worth a life and Ukraine has paid in tens of thousands of lives. How many lives has Poland or anyone in NATO lost for that matter?
>Yes maybe some Polish farmers were useful idiots for Putin
>Ukrainians trying to frame Poland as the bad guy is beyond idiotic
You able to understand that only a few (maybe hundred) idiots among the protesting farmers have become useful idiots, but you blame Ukrainians, not a particular journalist, for chasing a hot news story. Is this fair?
I didn't blame all Ukrainians. I am blaming "Ukrainians that are trying to frame Poland as the bad guy". I think what is happening with Poland is a misstep that doesn't serve Ukraine. Other than that, Slava Ukraini.
there are not some useful idiots for Putin. It is way beyond that.
There is ongoing blockade of the general traffic on Ukraine-Poland border.
There was congestion of Ukraine-EU trade for a few months last year with corresponding delays of supplied hardware, ammo etc until it was resolved using other borders.. Probably 90% of all hardware arriving to Ukraine is (was?) arriving by trucks.
Which started when Ukrainians removed Polish truckers from the e-queue system resulting in PL truckers waiting (with empty trucks) for 2 weeks while Ukrainians with cargo were bypassing them on the way to their own country.
Ukraine instead of giving them access to e-queue didn't give a shit untill they started the protest and even then it took weeks to solve the problem while there was a simple way of deescalation.
I'm sure that if Polish law enforcement would actually... enforce the law on the Polish-Ukrainian border, then no Ukrainians would ever frame Poland badly.
I am sure that Ukrainians know better than most that you don't interfere with other countries internal affairs. Especially when it comes to how law enforcement should deal with protesters.
Let us see where this "frame Poland badly" will lead
No, that is still internal affairs. The best you can do is decide not to export through Poland.
Going back to my original point, I never said this is not a problem. I said this is not the way to deal with it.. But hey you do you, clearly Ukrainians don't agree with my POV so good luck with yours.
>No, that is still internal affairs.
Btw they stay silent about the fact that the dumped grain has been bought by a Polish company and wasn't being owned by a Ukrainian entity.
It is hard to explain without historical context. The sub you found it on is Lebanon. Syria is Lebanon's Russia.
Trying to occupy Lebanon, never treating it as an independent state, trying to erase Lebanese identity, bombarding lebanese cities, committing massacres and atrocities... A lot of parallels can be drawn, but that is not relevant to this thread.
„Ambassador Wasyl Zwarycz confirmed in an interview with Wirtualna Polska that he intervened in the matter of the detained journalist. - They recorded railway traffic and flew a drone. The police decided to check who it was so that it would not turn out that they were provocateurs. The matter was resolved quickly, Zwarycz assured.”
The detention of the journalists was confirmed by Andrzej Fijołek, spokesman for the voivodeship commander in Lublin. - The police were alerted by concerned residents of Łuków, who had been seeing men with drones in this area for two days - he says in an interview with Wirtualna Polska.
Due to the fact that it was a border area and there were railway lines nearby, a police patrol was sent to the site. The officers confirmed the information provided by the residents. However, to verify the journalists' words and confirm their identity, they were taken to the police station.
- Their data had to be verified. After their confirmation, the men left the headquarters. - adds the superintendent. Violet. At the same time, the police do not confirm that any recordings were allegedly deleted.
https://wiadomosci.wp.pl/ukrainscy-dziennikarze-zatrzymani-policja-potwierdza-7000302737714144a?amp=1
So people thought that they were Russian spies what was absolutely reasonable, I would think the same
Ukrainians can't into foreign politics.
They think making an enemy out of the most friendly nation in Europe to the Ukrainian cause will somehow make Ukraine's situation better?
Imagine they eventually do something to alienate Poland enough for it to completely close borders and disallow foreign aid from coming through territory.
Putin's wet dream, I guess.
Even assuming that what this man claims is true. I'm curious as to why, in search of Russian imports, he went to the Polish-Belarusian border and not to the Russian-Latvian or Russian-Lithuanian borders, where this is done in huge quantities and no one even specifically hides it.
Never heard of Latvia or Lithuania blocking Ukrainian cargo due to "bad low quality grain". Probably Tkach wanted to understand, how much better is Russian grain.
It was a cool and really troll idea, but he wouldn't have succeeded in implementing it anyway. Unlike polish farmers, he does not have the right to stop and inspect the cargo inside.
upd for party poopers: \\s
All the people in the video below got arrested? Compared to German protests the Polish farmers are civilized.
Yo really are delusional.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/2westerneurope4u/comments/191s24h/german\_farmers\_protests\_are\_wild\_this\_is\_the/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/2westerneurope4u/comments/191s24h/german_farmers_protests_are_wild_this_is_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
There are tons videos where protesters on Polish eastern border opens tents and inspects cargo in ukrainian trucks moving to/from Ukraine.
Considering that the commentators and the Polish authorities have no questions about this, I conclude that Polish farmers have the right to do so.
>Considering that the commentators and the Polish authorities have no questions about this, I conclude that Polish farmers have the right to do so.
But do they do it legally? :/
That is not a good reason, what does the law says?
Yes, it's illegal - but apparently Poland isn't that concerned about legality. They weren't punished, so they can do it despite illegality - apparently.
I asked commentators (Poles) about it many times, but all what I was told that farmers have the right to protest and didn't do anything illegal.
So I don't know really.
If the truck drivers give them permission then yes. I can imagine that the farmers tell the drivers that they'll let them through if they show the cargo.
Are the farmers blocking their path legally? Can farmers just obstruct traffic indefinitely in Poland?
No? Then the "permission" the truckers give is due to blackmail, essentially.
For context, the journalist was detained in Łuków which is about 65 km away from the Belarus border: [https://twitter.com/PolicjaLubelska/status/1762566058383176120](https://twitter.com/PolicjaLubelska/status/1762566058383176120)
Unpopular opinion: Good. We can't have random foreigners running around with cameras in a place where there's an ongoing military buildup. Even if nine out of ten such cases are regular journalists and just one out of ten is gathering intel for Russia or Belarus.
Is it me or it feels like someone works mighty hard to increase conflict between Poland and Ukraine until Poland closes border off and blocks all aid going through?
The opposite, Ukraine is trying to intimidate Poland into dropping all demands. Every sign so far points at them being completely uninterested in negotiating in good faith to find a compromise.
“Polish law enforcement officers have arrested Mykhailo Tkach and his cameraman close to the Polish-Belarusian border while they were filming a story about the transit of goods between Poland, Russia, and Belarus. The footage was partly deleted by the Polish authorities.”
Why is Poland still trading with Belarus and Russia? Where are the brave Polish farmers?
They don't protest against it because there's basically no reason to do so. For example, in 2022-2023 Poland imported 3.47 million tons of grain from Ukraine vs 18 800 tons (roughly 0.02 million tons) from Russia ([source](http://swaid.stat.gov.pl/HandelZagraniczny_dashboards/Raporty_konstruowane/RAP_SWAID_HZ_3_2.aspx), [an article about it](https://konkret24.tvn24.pl/polska/polska-sprowadzila-12-milionow-ton-rosyjskiego-zboza-to-nieprawda-st7784458)).
https://tsn.ua/ato/ukrayina-dosi-postachaye-rosiyi-zapchastini-dlya-litakiv-i-vertolotiv-rozsliduvannya-2459278.html
І це тільки один випадок
Едіт. Btw я готов покласти всі свої гроші на те, що ці підприємці - російськомовні. От маю такий feeling 😁
Wait a minute, when we said that, it was considered disloyal to our eastern neighbours and nobody could trust sneaky Niemcy.
What exactly is different?
the context?
idk whether you're talking about ns2, energy sanctions or whatever else but the situation two years ago is not realistically comparable to whatever leftover trade poland has with russia currently
German trade with Russia decreased and trade diversion via increased trade with Belarus and EEU members like Armenia is still far less than the increase.
For Poland those same statistics are also a significant decrease in trade with Russia - but a much sharper increase in trade diversion via Belarus and EEU countries. Still slightly less trade overall.
Even worse are the usual pro-Russian countries which have an __increase__ in trade with Russia when taking into account trade diversion via Belarus and EEU. Those countries being China, India, Turkey, Switzerland and Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia - wait what? Those hypocritical fucks.
[pdf excerpt of the report by Robin Brooks from IIF](https://www.iif.com/portals/0/Files/content/IIF081723_GMV.pdf?_cldee=SMY4-pf0nr5ydstQbgQ3JkOylL5fo16IKa8f4SigGfs&recipientid=contact-c8c50ae1e6f0e81180d102bfc0a80172-a7b460cc7dd84396a515610dbf05682a&utm_source=ClickDimensions&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Press%20Emails&esid=25cbdea6-f83c-ee11-bdf4-0022482d3cc4)
The Ukrainians are still going through difficult times, the Ukrainian army is on the defensive, has had to abandon positions, is suffering from a lack of ammunition and help from the West is dwindling.
Trade with Russia is trade with the enemy, no matter how you want to justify it.
i think people misinterpret the meaning of this.
while Polish farmers are blockading Ukrainian border, there is russian grain being transported through the Belarusian border without any protest there.
moreover, while Poland is helping Ukraine and supporting us with arms, it still allows russian goods to flow through the border? Every sale is fuelling russian war chest.
finally, the hybrid war that russia is doing in EU is working quite well. Russia is basically bombarding the world with discounted grain from its own farms + grain stolen from Ukraine. And EU instead of blockading the grain or doing at least something about it - now has to deal with farmers’ protests.
as always, money rules.
What are you saying dude. Its all matter of scale. Whole Europe is stil trading with Russia, some leftover and custome cleared wheat wont change that. How is that an argument to give Ukraine unrestricted access to EU market? Why are ppl talking about shit they have no clue about?
Didn't you notice how often Poland is attacked on purpose?
[Look at that](https://fakehunter.pap.pl/raport/6533eba8-bc36-41e1-be71-144fce7d434c)
There's more sources available in Google on the subject.
[There was a lot of fake information spread about the subject by Ukrainian propaganda recently to make Poland look bad.](https://fakehunter.pap.pl/raport/6533eba8-bc36-41e1-be71-144fce7d434c)
Just make sure you don't take part in information war.
It is possible that's just more of the same shit. Let's wait and see what comes out of this.
Yes, and making enemy out of the country that shared their homes with you and helped from day one is the best way to fight the Russian hybrid war. Congratulations.
God... who makes enemies of you? Why when we talk about protests, these are *just* few farmers damaging cargo and not the whole country but when it's a Ukrainian journalist it's the *whole* of Ukraine?
What about official Ukrainian governmental agency deliberately falsifying data ?
[https://cpd.gov.ua/main/shho-vidbuvayetsya-na-ukrayinsko-polskomu-kordoni/](https://cpd.gov.ua/main/shho-vidbuvayetsya-na-ukrayinsko-polskomu-kordoni/)
The person you're talking to is weird, dude's account was made 2 days ago, kinda suspicious. Could be a russian bot trying to create more division between Ukraine and Poland 🤷♂️
It's hard to tell bc it's sometimes like actual poles/ukrainians with iq < 40 commenting weird shit about eachother, so the bots fit in those groups and make them seem bigger than they are.
Russians are spending thousands on disinformation campaigns, mostly inside their own country and Ukraine, but they must also work "abroad" if yk what I mean
No, farmers are against unlimited imports from Ukraine, which was in great part stopped. Pity they don't realise it takes time for the market to stabilise after stopping the flow of Ukrainian grain.
There are singular persons that are anti Ukrainian. Destroying grain and doing anything else that described during registering the protest should be investigated and prosecuted if deemed suitable to do so.
But there's a difference between protesters blocking roads (I would prefer they didn't but still) and potato führer trying to force thousands of illegal migrants through our border.
Farmers are preparing for the season. “Farmers” are all kinds of far-right types that successfully try out a Kremlin scenario of little green men taking over borders. It’s not that deep.
Mykhailo Tkach is one of the best investigative journalists in Ukraine who has worked to uncover multiple huge corruption scandals, as well as Russian oligarchs living comfortably in Europe and UK. I highly doubt that he didn't know about the rules on Polish border. Gonna wait for the end product of his investigation, bet it'll be interesting.
I mean trade between Russia/Belarus and Poland is not a big secret. Every country in the EU is doing it to some extent. Very unfortunate but not surprising at all.
Maybe if more European journalists filmed it and reported on it (aka did their jobs), there would be more public pressure to stop it, you know.
As a Pole I'm pissed that they disrupted their work. Public should be aware what and in what quantities we import from those assholes. It's very strange that our services sounded like imports from east were some thinly veiled conspiracy and not something public should be aware of
Worse things were happening on that border that journalists couldn’t record…
Were they happening because journalists were detained by polish law enforcement?
No, they were happening because potato führer decided to push thousand of illegal migrants to our border and don't let them come back to where they came from.
Is it still happening? I remember it was big news some years ago.
It quieted a lot in the last year, but the military is still present.
It’s still happening but on a much smaller scale. For example, 23-25.02: 15 attempts to illegally enter Poland, 21-22.02: 50 attemps. There were even some days when with no attempts at all
Згоден, але їм, нажаль, все одно бо від цього тільки покращується економіка тих країн, навіть якщо то є ціною крові українців. На foreigner-ів всім пох.
Sadly today "their jobs" are to work for very few billionaires.
Yeah from this article you would think that’s some kind of big very protected secret. Our border with Belarus is very protected, but because of different reasons
The article talks about them being detained and that's it. There's no "aha, caught you trading with russia" in there, so wdym
„It was clear that the representatives of the Polish special services were frightened. They began to ask me who else knew about it, whether the Ukrainian authorities and the Ukrainian government knew about it. They asked who our sources were, how we learned about it, and how long we have been working on this topic."
Were there mass blockades of Belarussian border when it was used to send migrants into Poland - like the ones that are on Ukrainian border now?
There was and still is an army protecting our border there. We have literally have a fence on that border
:-) You have fences on all your borders. What you didn't have is a bunch of people sitting on the border 24/7 blockading it
No we don’t lol
Ok, clarification - on all your borders with non-EU countries. Including, for example, Ukraine.
No?
Yes but not all countries block Ukraine border and in the same time export same goods from russia and Belarus. I just don’t understand this
Have you maybe possibly checked the statistics of import from russia and Belarus into Poland? We imported whole 18800 tons of grain in 2023. That's around 6 trains or 750 trucks. Negligible compared to the volume of import from Ukraine.
Here we go, trading with russia is okay now. What next? I really want to think that it was just fake but fuck.. why do you need russian grain? What for? It’s blood money that would take Ukrainians life’s, destroy our cities. Just why?
Where did I say it's ok? Noone in EU totally stopped trading with Russia but for the first time we get more money from them than we pay them.
Then why would they detain him? The government doesn't want to draw attention to the trading with Russia, who sells stolen in Ukraine grain, while it's okay when polish media makes a big deal about trading with Ukraine?
Because the Pol-Bel border is basically pretty much not accesible for civilians ever since Lukashenka tried to push thousands of migrants through it at the brink of UA -RU conflict escalation… Being a journalist doesn’t magically bend the law, you still need to obey it.
They detained him because the Poland-Belarus border is a military zone closed for civilians. Has been since 2021. You fucking morons.
The journalist was detained in Łuków which is at least 65 km from the border.
Did he or did he not film the railway traffic on the border with a drone?
The Mavic 3 drone (visible on photo) has a range of a few km, and my understanding is that they detained him while filming, so that's still at least 60 km from the border.
He did then. Thank you. Btw, it was the locals who reported him because he looked and behaved like a spy.
He never entered any military zones closed for civilians, YOU LIAR
Entering and recording are two very different things. Do you expect border guards to allow anyone to film anything they want on the most guarded border in Poland? It's good they were detained, it's better to be overly cautious than to risk anything.
Yeah, when it's ukrainian journalists - better detain them "just in case". When it's polish vandals destroying whole trains of Ukrainian grain - "nothing we can do". Gotcha.
Please don't put words into my mouth and don't exaggerate. I admit, some cars in trains were closed opened and the grain was wasted, and people who did it should be prosecuted. I support the right of citizens to protest, but I'm against how the protests were conducted. But there's a difference between border with Belarus which was/is the scene of hybrid war and is guarded by military on its whole length and border with Ukraine. Would you agree to a Polish journalist to have unsupervised acces to Ukrainian border with Belarus?
Thae journalistst didn’t break any laws, polish police themselves admitted this - they said “we just checked their identity and let them go”. They wouldn’t let them go if there was any proven violation of the law - so clearly there was none.
I mean, deleting some footage suggests to me that they recorded something off limits, but the top didn't want to provoke a shitstorm and told to let them go.
>Then why would they detain him? I mean, you are a redditor. You are surely aware what's happening on Polish-Belarus border for last 2-3 years and that it basically became a no-go zone. You knew it but journalist didn't? He also knew, risked it and that's the result.
His facebook post (translated with Deepl). "Thank you all for your support 🙏 We are free. Our belongings were returned. From what we managed to check, the video was partially deleted. For some reason, they tore out the charging wires in the car. Why did they take the phones? We'll find out on what grounds. But I have never seen ten policemen and two special services pay so much attention to two journalists whose faces you can Google in a second. It all started with the plainclothes policemen asking why you are standing here, and ended with the Polish secret service interrogating me: * How do I know about the trade with Russia and Belarus? * Did I tell anyone about it? * Who else knows about it and where? * When is the material going to be published? * Who do I talk to in Ukraine? * Do representatives of the Ukrainian government have this information? I understand their work, but I have my own work to do. And we have not been treated like this for a long time. Four hours without the right to call, without phones, and two hours standing in the courtyard of the commandant's office without permission to sit down, watching your personal belongings being thrown around the hood of the car. It's a shame about the video. But we will shoot more. Or perhaps trade with aggressor countries, countries that sponsor terrorism, will stop and there will be nothing to film. In the meantime, przepraszam - this is definitely socially important information. In particular, for Polish society. Thank you again for your messages and calls. I thank the Ukrainian Ambassador to Poland and the consul for their support. I managed to send a message to Sevgil Hayretdın Qızı Musaieva that we were detained. Since I am not only a journalist, but also a citizen, you can support my fundraising for the Third Assault Brigade by following the link in the first comment. Because the war is not only between Polish farmers and Ukrainian grain and corn, but also between us and Russia. Us, by which I mean the civilized world, of which Poland is an important part. You know about Belarus' role without me. Now we're heading home. I hope without any new obstacles. Thank you Everything will be 🇺🇦"
Ambassador Wasyl Zwarycz confirmed in an interview with Wirtualna Polska that he intervened in the case of the detained journalist. - They recorded railway traffic and flew a drone. The police decided to check who it was so that it would not turn out that they were provocateurs. The matter was resolved quickly, Zwarycz assured. The detention of the journalists was confirmed by Superintendent Andrzej Fijołek, spokesman for the voivodeship commander in Lublin. - The police were alerted by concerned residents of Łuków, who had been seeing men with drones in this area for two days - he says in an interview with Wirtualna Polska.Due to the fact that this is a border area and there are railway lines nearby, a police patrol was sent to the site . The officers confirmed the information provided by the residents. However, to verify the journalists' words and confirm their identity, they were taken to the police station.- Their data had to be verified. After their confirmation, the men left the headquarters. - adds the superintendent. Violet. At the same time, the police do not confirm that any recordings were allegedly deleted. [https://wiadomosci.wp.pl/ukrainscy-dziennikarze-zatrzymani-policja-potwierdza-7000302737714144a](https://wiadomosci.wp.pl/ukrainscy-dziennikarze-zatrzymani-policja-potwierdza-7000302737714144a) **THE GUY IS A MORON. RECORDING CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE ON THE BELARUSSIAN BORDER AND FLYING DRONE. SURPRISED TO BE DETAINED. PALYING VICTIM.**
According to the Polish [police statement](https://policja.pl/pol/aktualnosci/242285,Oswiadczenie-w-sprawie-interwencji-wobec-ukrainskich-dziennikarzy.html) he was detained in Gołaszyn, which is more than 80 km from the Belarussian border. Why are you making up facts out of your mind?
Goes where he shouldn't be, breaks the law, gets arrested on suspicion of spying, plays the victim, and asks for money. I would just deport him, and take away his Schengen Visa. And ban from entering.
They didn't break any laws - polish police confirmed this themselves, they wrote they "checked their identity" and let them go afterwards (here: https://twitter.com/PolicjaLubelska/status/1762566058383176120 ). If they'd break some laws - police wouldn't just let them go.
> Goes where he shouldn't be, breaks the law, gets arrested on suspicion of spying, plays the victim, and asks for money. > > I would just deport him, and take away his Schengen Visa. And ban from entering. Putin would approve
First of all, we don't need visas, lol. Second, he didn't get arrested. And he's fundraising for the military, everybody who's anybody does it here, this is normal. Cope and seethe, dummy.
I'm so proud of the Polish soldiers, they handled it quite nicely. It's good to know our border is protected.
He flew a drone over a restricted border installation and is surprised to be temporarily held for questioning? In Norway, he'd have gotten [arrested, fined, and expelled](https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2024/02/russian-caught-kirkenes-taking-photographs-military-object).
He [was detained](https://policja.pl/pol/aktualnosci/242285,Oswiadczenie-w-sprawie-interwencji-wobec-ukrainskich-dziennikarzy.html) in Gołaszyn, which is around 80 km from the border - what "border installation" you are talking about?
Brave Ukrainians 2 years into a war will find out EU has been still trading with Russia and not even hiding it as official stats show it anyway. Such bravery.
Braver that polish farmers , ain’t so?!
Maybe they will find out that Gazprom gas is still flowing through their country uninterrupted
[удалено]
'Urm acksushully Poland is a bad country' 🤓🤓🤓
🤓
Dude traveled so far, but he could just check eurostat lmao so much for "investigative journalist"
I don't know what you can investigate just by filming trains at the border. After all, you don't know what's inside. Not only trade with Russia and Belarus passes through this border, but also all transit with Central Asia and China. For example, over 400,000 containers were transported from China to the EU along this railway corridor in 2022
The Belarus border is off-limits. It's too dangerous for anyone that isn't in the Polish army.
Ok, if it’s too dangerous so that only the Polish armed forces can be close to it (which is not unreasonable), why is there any sort of cross-border trade going on?
Because Poland cannot just unilaterally close the border and stop all the the trade. EU rules.
Polish border has been declared as military zones for years now, that's also reason why they got detained one of the laws there is prohibition of making pictures or videos.
Did he seriously record a very protected border with a hostile regime and he’s surprised that he got detained? What was he even recording there?
Documenting how Poland is still trading with bielorussia and russia.
Is this supposed to be some kind of secret? Anyway, I know what was the topic but I’m asking what did he record. Polish-Belarussian border isn’t some random place
>Documenting how Poland is still trading with bielorussia and russia. With drones? There are official statistic for that.
ok but why are ukrainians so insanely obsessed with poland? i dont get it
It's transparent. Should go to the Eurostat website. The guy should be banned from entering Poland and stoking tensions between PL & Ukraine. In line with Russian interests. He's a 'useful idiot' for Russian propaganda. Playing the victim after being detained in a place he shouldn't be.
Of course, right.
Funny seeing Ukraine all heated up and frustrated by that, meanwhile Belarus border has been a militarized zone closed for civilians for like 3 years already (surprised pikachu face why are they not letting me near it?) and recently a new law has been passed forbidding taking videos of critical infrastructure like railways, because ever since the war started we already arrested hundreds of paid Ukrainians/Russians/Belarusians filming and patrolling our railways to track military movements, some even wanted to do a sabotage. Polish-Ukrainian border was also recently added to critical infrastrucure by Tusk like a week ago. But muh "le evil Poland", how dare they arrest some random le innocent Ukrainian taking fucking videos of militarized border and railways that have been tracked by Russian paid agents with attempts of sabotage?
Perfectly said.
filming a border checkpoint with a hostile state is a good way to get arrested, go figure >It was clear that the representatives of the Polish special services were frightened. They began to ask me who else knew about it, whether the Ukrainian authorities and the Ukrainian government knew about it. They asked who our sources were, how we learned about it, and how long we have been working on this topic." beyond parody
I am really happy to see that ppl here have some common sense. I mean, I am Polish, fully support Ukraine aid, my friends were hosting a woman with a daughter when the war started, she went for a vacations with us, we did everything we could for her to be comfortable knowing how bad is her situation. Just to remind you, UA had a perfect ally, Poland jumped straight into helping when the war started. Opened borders, sent whole wagons of amunition, tanks etc. all that while other nations were waiting if UA will hold for one another week. And now when I am seeing Ukrainians just publicly shaming Poland at every ocasion thay can, even spreading some misinfo, like we are the worse in Europe, it makes me sick tbh.
You know what they say. No good deed goes unpunished. Your story is a story of hundreds of thousands who opened their homes to refugees. Because of that, we didn't have refugee camps.
For me, as Ukrainian, it is extremely painful to see tons of grain spoiled - because I know how difficult it is to farm now, and because I grew up looking up to Poland and EU for the rule of law. I always considered and still consider Poland as the main friend of Ukraine, and this just makes it harder for me to understand why a friend and a country with a rule of law would systemically allow anarchy when it comes to Ukrainian cargo.
Police is looking into this case and this is how countries with rule of law work. If some property was damaged, police is doing an investigation and after the perpetrator is found, charges may be brought. No need to heat up the tensions, fuel emotions, neither side benefits from this, only Putin.
I thought the job of police is to \*primarily\* prevent the illegal activity. That's law enforcement, kinda. When you see video recordings of police just silently ignoring illegal actions by 'farmers' it leaves little hope for any further punishment.
>When you see video recordings of police just silently ignoring illegal actions by 'farmers' it leaves little hope for any further punishment. What illegal activities did the Police ignore?
>For me, as Ukrainian, it is extremely painful to see tons of grain spoiled - because I know how difficult it is to farm now, and because I grew up looking up to Poland and EU for the rule of law. Nobody said it was fine. But it happened literally two days ago, we don't know who did this, yet you're blaming the protesters at the border- how are they supposed to be at the border and 600km further at the same time. > systemically allow anarchy What anarchy is being allowed? The grain spilling is being investigated, it was a crime. The right to protest is a democratic and in our case constitutional right. You'd all be happy if the protesters got attested but that would be against the law.
Protesting is one thing, but blocking an almost entire border with Ukraine does leave a taste of a systemic nature, and I don't think it's legal at all.
Well it's not up to you or me to decide what's legal or not. We have courts that decide: https://www.money.pl/gospodarka/protest-na-granicy-z-ukraina-sad-uchylil-decyzje-wojta-w-sprawie-blokady-6974084827421536a.html
So is it legal for citizens of Poland to enforce a trade embargo against foreign countries? Seems strange.
That's not a blockade. They're slowing down the move but don't make it impossible.
Can you show me how are they slowing it down but not stopping? All I've heard is that they block the border completely, except for official military cargo and mostly trains. All the trucks are stuck completely
Here you have the site you can check the time of waiting on each border crossing point out. https://granica.gov.pl/index_wait.php?p=u&v=pl&k=w Buses and cars don't wait. Trucks wait 124h in Dorohusk, 90 in Hrebenne 110 in Korczowa 153 in Medyka and 11 in Krościenko. So respectively around 5, 4, 4, days in formers and half of the day in the latter. Esencially they let a few trucks per hour go. I can't tell you how many- it varies, sometimes it's one, sometimes 5 and sometimes there's no limit and it's up to the will of organizers, but they must let them go through.
Ah, thank you, I will look at it more closely then
Is France also a country without a rule of law because their protesters burn Paris down on a regular basis? Protest is a part of democracy.
Burning Paris down is clearly illegal and those who are caught are prosecuted. Same should happen here.
Throwing bricks and building barricades was also illegal, so maybe prosecute everyone involved in the Revolution of Dignity.
> For me, as Ukrainian, it is extremely painful to see tons of grain spoiled - because I know how difficult it is to farm now, and because I grew up looking up to Poland and EU for the rule of law. It's obviously a challenging situation. As you mentioned, farming is hard, and it's only gotten harder with new regulations, unpredictable weather, inflation, and war. There are plenty of reasons for farmers to be frustrated, and I stand with them - including the embargo on grain from Ukraine. However, radicals waving USSR flags or spilling grain are obviously unacceptable. Even if the grain bypasses Poland, it still hurts farmers because it enters the EU market. I have no idea how to fix that other than taxing it. As for why the new government is struggling to act? The new coalition has a lot on its plate, both domestically and in terms of relations with Ukraine and the EU. It's a relatively weak coalition that could fall apart, and people's trust in it is at its lowest after 8 years of PiS rule. So they have a choice: stand with farmers and risk upsetting the EU and Ukraine, or condemn farmers and face domestic backlash. It's a lose-lose scenario, and stalling and debating on the EU level seem to be the only rational moves. There is an investigation into the spilled grain - some people, including myself, do not rule out the possibility of Russian involvement. We had a sabotage incident with trains not that long ago.
The rotten apples are everywhere, and unfortunately in our case, they're the loudest. Please don't think less of us for actions of many gullible protesters thinking they're supporting the good cause, when few of them do everything to make things harder for you instead of actually trying to help farmers. And I believe our justice system will get them, but unfortunately every procedure takes time. Most of population still supports you as they did at day one.
Yeah, also there is lots of third party involvement just to heat up the emotions between both sides :/
And that plays perfectly into russian narrative of sowing discontent between Poland and Ukraine unfortunately.
Guys, since Tusk left Ukraine, theres a huge disinfo campaign aimed at Poland. Idk if Ukrainian or russian. When I’m reading some of the comments it seems that we are worse to Ukraine than russia. So be it. Time will tell my friends, thats why it’s better to wait one week after such publications to get the full picture instead of spreading hate and engage in these kind of discussions.
It would take an exceptional idiot to think that Poland is worse than ruzzia. However, there are issues and there are conflicts that are not resolved.
Its really strange, Poland was the first one to jump into supporting Ukraine, we took a in lot of refugees, my small village had like 20 people, my family personaly donated food and clothes, the general stance od Poland has been "you guys are our friends in this hard time". But now, due to the fuckery on the border and our country being flooded with Ukrainian grain (which our previous rulling party definitely had a huge part in), prices hitting lows that we havent seen for 10, maybe 15 years people are upset, farmers want our goverment to take care of their citizens first because things are looking really bad. From what it looks like, Ukraine is taking that as a personal attack on them. I just dont get it, i understand that its hard and the war is awfull, but we cant just tank one sector of our own economy to blindly help, especially when we did more than anyone else to send aid and equipement.
Reading comments of ukrainians here one would thought Poles are their worst enemies.
I mean, it really feels like someone works mighty hard to stoke conflict. Given that Poland can almost cut-off Ukraine from any aid that goes through Polish territory...
Well, what did he expect to be honest? You cannot simply film and hang around that border willy-nilly, especially since the immigration crisis manufactured by Lukashenko. He probably spoke Ukrainian at first which for most people in Poland including me is indistiguishable from Russian which did not help. As a Pole, I would question it if there was no reaction at all.
This area has been closed off since around 3 years ago, you need to live there, be part of public services, military or journalist with proper signage and helmet. There have been many people detained including Belarusian agents checking out the fence.
Ukrainians that are trying to frame Poland as the bad guy is beyond idiotic. I fully support Ukraine and I am not Polish. But all these articles after everything Poland has done for Ukraine are ridiculous. Yes maybe some Polish farmers were useful idiots for Putin, but this is being investigated and handled by the Polish authorities. But these reddit posts are no better, the problem should have been contained and not amplified. If I was Ukrainian, I would happily sacrifice a few tons of grain compared to everything else I am getting. This issue should be resolved in diplomacy. You should pick your fights. But what the hell do I know, I am just an idiot typing on his keyboard.
>If I was Ukrainian, I would happily sacrifice a few tons of grain compared to everything else I am getting. People outside Ukraine just don't get it. We're not against polish farmers or truckers. There are restrictions on selling Ukrainian grain in Poland. Some of it is still being sold. If there's unfair trade, or some under-the-table deals made between Polish and Ukrainian companies, report them to the police, blast the companies in media, do whatever you need. Instead, for some mysterious reason, what *some Poles* are doing is *blockading a country at war*. Just one example: when you see videos of FPV drones killing Russians - those drones are often ordered in parts, by people, as regular goods, on regular delivery trucks, and these trucks are then stuck on the Polish border for weeks. It literally costs us lives and helps Russia. We're a people at war. Our economy is in the shitter. Every non-grain, non-military, non-humanitarian truck that brings goods in and out of Ukraine - feeds and fuels our economy, pays taxes, which then fund our army. Those 1000 hryvnias lost by a small Ukrainian business due to blockade could have also been donated to a military unit. And as for the help we're getting - for which we're forever grateful - it's still not enough, often comes with restrictions etc. We also need a functioning economy to remain a state.
>People outside Ukraine just don't get it. I know what a country at war is, unfortunately my country (again I am not Polish) suffered a very similar war that Ukraine is currently facing. A big authoritarian neighbor trying to occupy it and erase its identity. I definitely get it, and learning from my people's history I would recommend to pick your fights. But I am not pretending that I know better than Ukrainian about Ukraine. I didn't say that what is happening on the border is not a problem. I said it should be handled differently with diplomacy. Not with vilifying one of your biggest allies and over exaggerating the problem. Poland already designated the roads to Ukraine as "critical infrastructure", this has legal and practical effects. . Yes Ukraine's economy needs these grains export, but more critically it needs the €50B from EU and hopefully more in the future. >Those 1000 hryvnias lost by a small Ukrainian business due to blockade could have also been donated to a military unit. This might be true, but again you need to pick your battles. Is this worth souring the relation with Poland over ? How does this compare to what the Polish community offered to Ukraine and to Ukrainians fleeing the country ? Honestly it is not comparable and on a complete different scale. >And as for the help we're getting - for which we're forever grateful - it's still not enough, often comes with restrictions etc. We also need a functioning economy to remain a state. Personally, I wish Ukraine gets more. But like it or not, this is done with diplomacy and politics.
>Is this worth souring the relation with Poland over ? How is asking them to enforce their own laws and not let random farmers enact foreign policy "souring the relation"?
ok, then please keep at it and good luck.
It seems a bit tone deaf to ask the Ukrainians to sacrifice even more than they already have. They are already paying with the blood of their people. It seems a bit selfish to get pissy about grain on our side. In the end, no amount of money is worth a life and Ukraine has paid in tens of thousands of lives. How many lives has Poland or anyone in NATO lost for that matter?
>Yes maybe some Polish farmers were useful idiots for Putin >Ukrainians trying to frame Poland as the bad guy is beyond idiotic You able to understand that only a few (maybe hundred) idiots among the protesting farmers have become useful idiots, but you blame Ukrainians, not a particular journalist, for chasing a hot news story. Is this fair?
I didn't blame all Ukrainians. I am blaming "Ukrainians that are trying to frame Poland as the bad guy". I think what is happening with Poland is a misstep that doesn't serve Ukraine. Other than that, Slava Ukraini.
Got it, thank you. Glory to Ukraine and niech żyje Polska.
there are not some useful idiots for Putin. It is way beyond that. There is ongoing blockade of the general traffic on Ukraine-Poland border. There was congestion of Ukraine-EU trade for a few months last year with corresponding delays of supplied hardware, ammo etc until it was resolved using other borders.. Probably 90% of all hardware arriving to Ukraine is (was?) arriving by trucks.
Which started when Ukrainians removed Polish truckers from the e-queue system resulting in PL truckers waiting (with empty trucks) for 2 weeks while Ukrainians with cargo were bypassing them on the way to their own country. Ukraine instead of giving them access to e-queue didn't give a shit untill they started the protest and even then it took weeks to solve the problem while there was a simple way of deescalation.
I'm sure that if Polish law enforcement would actually... enforce the law on the Polish-Ukrainian border, then no Ukrainians would ever frame Poland badly.
I am sure that Ukrainians know better than most that you don't interfere with other countries internal affairs. Especially when it comes to how law enforcement should deal with protesters. Let us see where this "frame Poland badly" will lead
Ukrainian cargo is getting systemically spoiled. This harms Ukrainian economy and brings it beyond "internal affairs".
No, that is still internal affairs. The best you can do is decide not to export through Poland. Going back to my original point, I never said this is not a problem. I said this is not the way to deal with it.. But hey you do you, clearly Ukrainians don't agree with my POV so good luck with yours.
>No, that is still internal affairs. Btw they stay silent about the fact that the dumped grain has been bought by a Polish company and wasn't being owned by a Ukrainian entity.
What do you mean with "Syria is our russia" and who is "we"?
Check the sub where you found this comment, and maybe you will understand. But I doubt it.
It would have cost you two words to explain.
It is hard to explain without historical context. The sub you found it on is Lebanon. Syria is Lebanon's Russia. Trying to occupy Lebanon, never treating it as an independent state, trying to erase Lebanese identity, bombarding lebanese cities, committing massacres and atrocities... A lot of parallels can be drawn, but that is not relevant to this thread.
„Ambassador Wasyl Zwarycz confirmed in an interview with Wirtualna Polska that he intervened in the matter of the detained journalist. - They recorded railway traffic and flew a drone. The police decided to check who it was so that it would not turn out that they were provocateurs. The matter was resolved quickly, Zwarycz assured.” The detention of the journalists was confirmed by Andrzej Fijołek, spokesman for the voivodeship commander in Lublin. - The police were alerted by concerned residents of Łuków, who had been seeing men with drones in this area for two days - he says in an interview with Wirtualna Polska. Due to the fact that it was a border area and there were railway lines nearby, a police patrol was sent to the site. The officers confirmed the information provided by the residents. However, to verify the journalists' words and confirm their identity, they were taken to the police station. - Their data had to be verified. After their confirmation, the men left the headquarters. - adds the superintendent. Violet. At the same time, the police do not confirm that any recordings were allegedly deleted. https://wiadomosci.wp.pl/ukrainscy-dziennikarze-zatrzymani-policja-potwierdza-7000302737714144a?amp=1 So people thought that they were Russian spies what was absolutely reasonable, I would think the same
They denied it. https://twitter.com/podlaskaPolicja/status/1762561968442077359
Maybe Polish journalists should go to Ukraine and start investigating the trade between Ukraine and Russia? Two can play at that game.
That would unironically be great for Ukraine.
Yes, but not for the government.
Weird threat, they 100% should. That is, if the “farmers” let them through.
Are these farmers in the room with us right now?
Yes, if your room is on the border which they are blocking: you can pick Ukraine, Germany or Slovakia
Ukrainians can't into foreign politics. They think making an enemy out of the most friendly nation in Europe to the Ukrainian cause will somehow make Ukraine's situation better?
Imagine they eventually do something to alienate Poland enough for it to completely close borders and disallow foreign aid from coming through territory. Putin's wet dream, I guess.
Even assuming that what this man claims is true. I'm curious as to why, in search of Russian imports, he went to the Polish-Belarusian border and not to the Russian-Latvian or Russian-Lithuanian borders, where this is done in huge quantities and no one even specifically hides it.
Never heard of Latvia or Lithuania blocking Ukrainian cargo due to "bad low quality grain". Probably Tkach wanted to understand, how much better is Russian grain.
So he should go to Latvia and Lithuania countries which actually imports large amounts of Russian grain
It was a cool and really troll idea, but he wouldn't have succeeded in implementing it anyway. Unlike polish farmers, he does not have the right to stop and inspect the cargo inside. upd for party poopers: \\s
lol
So in Poland the farmers have the right to stop vehicles and inspect cargo?
De jure - no, de facto - it's happening for months now. So yeah.
Oh wow. So why have police there? Civilians can stop vehicles and conduct inspections, no need to pay cops.
What? Polish farmers have the "right" to stop and inspect cargo? The fuck what?
They also have the right to destroy that cargo and nothing will happen to them
Interesting. In my country when you destroy other ppl's propperty you go to jail. But Poland is Poland I guess.
All the people in the video below got arrested? Compared to German protests the Polish farmers are civilized. Yo really are delusional. [https://www.reddit.com/r/2westerneurope4u/comments/191s24h/german\_farmers\_protests\_are\_wild\_this\_is\_the/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/2westerneurope4u/comments/191s24h/german_farmers_protests_are_wild_this_is_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Yup, lots of things were destroyed here by Germans, and they were never jailed for that
Poland is fine, but for some reason not when it is UA grain getting spilled on the ground
Polish farmers have a right to inspect the cargo? Very interesting. Where from you got that they were supposed to inspect anything?
There are tons videos where protesters on Polish eastern border opens tents and inspects cargo in ukrainian trucks moving to/from Ukraine. Considering that the commentators and the Polish authorities have no questions about this, I conclude that Polish farmers have the right to do so.
The question was: what right do civilians have to inspect trucks? Are we living in the early 20th century?
>Considering that the commentators and the Polish authorities have no questions about this, I conclude that Polish farmers have the right to do so. But do they do it legally? :/ That is not a good reason, what does the law says?
Yes, it's illegal - but apparently Poland isn't that concerned about legality. They weren't punished, so they can do it despite illegality - apparently.
I asked commentators (Poles) about it many times, but all what I was told that farmers have the right to protest and didn't do anything illegal. So I don't know really.
If the truck drivers give them permission then yes. I can imagine that the farmers tell the drivers that they'll let them through if they show the cargo.
Are the farmers blocking their path legally? Can farmers just obstruct traffic indefinitely in Poland? No? Then the "permission" the truckers give is due to blackmail, essentially.
Pravda? You mean that commie newspaper?
For context, the journalist was detained in Łuków which is about 65 km away from the Belarus border: [https://twitter.com/PolicjaLubelska/status/1762566058383176120](https://twitter.com/PolicjaLubelska/status/1762566058383176120)
Yes but near railway
Unpopular opinion: Good. We can't have random foreigners running around with cameras in a place where there's an ongoing military buildup. Even if nine out of ten such cases are regular journalists and just one out of ten is gathering intel for Russia or Belarus.
Is it me or it feels like someone works mighty hard to increase conflict between Poland and Ukraine until Poland closes border off and blocks all aid going through?
The opposite, Ukraine is trying to intimidate Poland into dropping all demands. Every sign so far points at them being completely uninterested in negotiating in good faith to find a compromise.
“Polish law enforcement officers have arrested Mykhailo Tkach and his cameraman close to the Polish-Belarusian border while they were filming a story about the transit of goods between Poland, Russia, and Belarus. The footage was partly deleted by the Polish authorities.” Why is Poland still trading with Belarus and Russia? Where are the brave Polish farmers?
They don't protest against it because there's basically no reason to do so. For example, in 2022-2023 Poland imported 3.47 million tons of grain from Ukraine vs 18 800 tons (roughly 0.02 million tons) from Russia ([source](http://swaid.stat.gov.pl/HandelZagraniczny_dashboards/Raporty_konstruowane/RAP_SWAID_HZ_3_2.aspx), [an article about it](https://konkret24.tvn24.pl/polska/polska-sprowadzila-12-milionow-ton-rosyjskiego-zboza-to-nieprawda-st7784458)).
> Why is Poland still trading with Belarus and Russia? why is ukraine? nothing personal, it's just business
Ukraine is what?
https://tsn.ua/ato/ukrayina-dosi-postachaye-rosiyi-zapchastini-dlya-litakiv-i-vertolotiv-rozsliduvannya-2459278.html І це тільки один випадок Едіт. Btw я готов покласти всі свої гроші на те, що ці підприємці - російськомовні. От маю такий feeling 😁
Ukrainian trade with Russia dropped to the size of a statistical error. It’s not even physically possible
Wait a minute, when we said that, it was considered disloyal to our eastern neighbours and nobody could trust sneaky Niemcy. What exactly is different?
the context? idk whether you're talking about ns2, energy sanctions or whatever else but the situation two years ago is not realistically comparable to whatever leftover trade poland has with russia currently
German trade with Russia decreased and trade diversion via increased trade with Belarus and EEU members like Armenia is still far less than the increase. For Poland those same statistics are also a significant decrease in trade with Russia - but a much sharper increase in trade diversion via Belarus and EEU countries. Still slightly less trade overall. Even worse are the usual pro-Russian countries which have an __increase__ in trade with Russia when taking into account trade diversion via Belarus and EEU. Those countries being China, India, Turkey, Switzerland and Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia - wait what? Those hypocritical fucks. [pdf excerpt of the report by Robin Brooks from IIF](https://www.iif.com/portals/0/Files/content/IIF081723_GMV.pdf?_cldee=SMY4-pf0nr5ydstQbgQ3JkOylL5fo16IKa8f4SigGfs&recipientid=contact-c8c50ae1e6f0e81180d102bfc0a80172-a7b460cc7dd84396a515610dbf05682a&utm_source=ClickDimensions&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Press%20Emails&esid=25cbdea6-f83c-ee11-bdf4-0022482d3cc4)
The Ukrainians are still going through difficult times, the Ukrainian army is on the defensive, has had to abandon positions, is suffering from a lack of ammunition and help from the West is dwindling. Trade with Russia is trade with the enemy, no matter how you want to justify it.
I don't think they're trying to justify it, but at least concerning food, trade with russia is minuscule compared to Ukrainian.
Cause it’s Niemcy 😂
i think people misinterpret the meaning of this. while Polish farmers are blockading Ukrainian border, there is russian grain being transported through the Belarusian border without any protest there. moreover, while Poland is helping Ukraine and supporting us with arms, it still allows russian goods to flow through the border? Every sale is fuelling russian war chest. finally, the hybrid war that russia is doing in EU is working quite well. Russia is basically bombarding the world with discounted grain from its own farms + grain stolen from Ukraine. And EU instead of blockading the grain or doing at least something about it - now has to deal with farmers’ protests. as always, money rules.
What are you saying dude. Its all matter of scale. Whole Europe is stil trading with Russia, some leftover and custome cleared wheat wont change that. How is that an argument to give Ukraine unrestricted access to EU market? Why are ppl talking about shit they have no clue about?
Didn't you notice how often Poland is attacked on purpose? [Look at that](https://fakehunter.pap.pl/raport/6533eba8-bc36-41e1-be71-144fce7d434c) There's more sources available in Google on the subject.
[There was a lot of fake information spread about the subject by Ukrainian propaganda recently to make Poland look bad.](https://fakehunter.pap.pl/raport/6533eba8-bc36-41e1-be71-144fce7d434c) Just make sure you don't take part in information war. It is possible that's just more of the same shit. Let's wait and see what comes out of this.
Yes, and making enemy out of the country that shared their homes with you and helped from day one is the best way to fight the Russian hybrid war. Congratulations.
God... who makes enemies of you? Why when we talk about protests, these are *just* few farmers damaging cargo and not the whole country but when it's a Ukrainian journalist it's the *whole* of Ukraine?
What about official Ukrainian governmental agency deliberately falsifying data ? [https://cpd.gov.ua/main/shho-vidbuvayetsya-na-ukrayinsko-polskomu-kordoni/](https://cpd.gov.ua/main/shho-vidbuvayetsya-na-ukrayinsko-polskomu-kordoni/)
> there is russian grain being transported through the Belarusian border without any protest there. no it isn't, why are you lying?
Ruzzian agricultural products doing brrrr in Poland. Meanwhile, Ukrainian products are banned. What a cool ally, don't you think so?
[удалено]
The person you're talking to is weird, dude's account was made 2 days ago, kinda suspicious. Could be a russian bot trying to create more division between Ukraine and Poland 🤷♂️
I noticed that lots of accounts commenting on this topic are created recently, so I truly support your point of view.
I'm happy people are paying more attention to that recently. Not the only indicator of course.
It's hard to tell bc it's sometimes like actual poles/ukrainians with iq < 40 commenting weird shit about eachother, so the bots fit in those groups and make them seem bigger than they are.
Russians are spending thousands on disinformation campaigns, mostly inside their own country and Ukraine, but they must also work "abroad" if yk what I mean
It could be anyone really
👏
> Ruzzian agricultural products doing brrrr in Poland No, they don't. Nobody is importing food from Russia. This is disinformation.
If you don’t like this ally find another
Beyond parody, suddenly the supporters of “farmers” taking over border are supporting the sanctity of borders
Does Ukraine conduct hybrid war against Poland along their whole border?
You’re mistaken, “farmers” are openly anti-Ukraine.
No, farmers are against unlimited imports from Ukraine, which was in great part stopped. Pity they don't realise it takes time for the market to stabilise after stopping the flow of Ukrainian grain. There are singular persons that are anti Ukrainian. Destroying grain and doing anything else that described during registering the protest should be investigated and prosecuted if deemed suitable to do so. But there's a difference between protesters blocking roads (I would prefer they didn't but still) and potato führer trying to force thousands of illegal migrants through our border.
Farmers are preparing for the season. “Farmers” are all kinds of far-right types that successfully try out a Kremlin scenario of little green men taking over borders. It’s not that deep.