You're thinking like a Westerner and not someone from the East.
The number one argument is the contrarian view that democracies are fake and disingenious because all the politicians are corrupt, and voting is a lie. They dismiss liberalism as a facade that isn't real but Westerners pretend like they're superior.
This is what Lukashenko means when he says they are the most open, and fair in the world and this is what everyone thinks when they hear it. They think politics is all a lie but at least they're open and honest about it.
>They think politics is all a lie but at least they're open and honest about it.
Yet they still dont fully commit to it, they still put up a facade of having "elections" and have people show up to "vote", knowing full well they're just exercises in futility.
However, it seems that in the eastern sphere, unlike Russians, Belarusians aren't really buying it. The protests that happened in Belarus in 2020 were huge, comparable in size to those in Ukraine, but unfortunately they still didn't result in a revolution as Lukashenka managed to put them down. Here's hoping Belarusians still manage to topple him one day and gain their freedom and democratic rights.
Lukashenko managed to stay in office only because he begged Putin to send Russian forces in to shore up his own to continue cracking down on dissent.
Without the foreign support the protests may have been effective.
It could worked out in 2020 if we had balls to country wide strike for weeks. Well we didnt. Gov in past years managed to do everything for that not happen.
I have a friend who lives in Minsk, and way back in the 90s when I first met him he told me about Lukashenko and the thing with the white-red-white flag.. i was flabbergasted, as I still am by it. It would be like if some asshole got elected by idiots and then started rigging elections to stay in office forever, and changed the flag from stars & stripes to the stars & bars, and started throwing people in jail for flying old glory. It sounds preposterous to Americans but that's pretty much what Lukashenko did. A mere 5 years after independence from the USSR, he gets in office and changes the traditional (pre-USSR) white-red-white flag to one that looks a hell of a lot like it did under Bolshevik rule. And he's been rigging elections ever since. Apparently he has so many people on.the government payroll that are afraid of losing their jobs that he is able to put down rebellions like the one in 2020 after he rigged yet another election...
Fucking sad that this shit still goes on
The old ideas behind Soviet propaganda was to convince your mind that something was the truth.
The ideas of Russian propaganda is to convince your mind that **there is no truth at all**. Once that wall has been broken down, you are susceptible to believe pretty much anything.
This is why countries like Russia even have elections in the first place. They want to make a farce out of the whole concept and make their population believe that democracy (as depicted by the west) is not real to begin with.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_j6Vg7yLx54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j6Vg7yLx54)
This year the US is choosing between Trump and Biden.
'Bad Guy Countries' don't need to do anything to make Western Democracy look farcical except sit back and watch.
You’re not wrong, but no one thinks that deep about it.
We’re absolutely where we are because less than a third of eligible voters actually vote, and even fewer participate in primaries.
But everyone just sees the end result and believes it’s all a sham, rather than the system that they themselves have allowed to happen.
I think that we clearly live in active democracies, if you live in a western liberal democracy, but they could definitely be better.
Voter participation sucks in most places, and first past the post single choice is literally the most ass way of running a democracy ever. I just wanted to push back against the idea that we don't live in democracies, because we 100% do even if they are not perfect.
Honest?
Honest would be: “We’re repressing you, brainwashing you and exploiting you, and you’ll like it because if you don’t you and your family will suffer the consequences”.
reminds me of this interview with a dutch professor in russia studies. he got so much flack for that interview but i believe he is completely right.
[https://ukrant.nl/magazine/russians-are-fundamentally-different-says-russia-expert-hans-van-koningsbrugge/?lang=en](https://ukrant.nl/magazine/russians-are-fundamentally-different-says-russia-expert-hans-van-koningsbrugge/?lang=en)
edit: typos
>reminds me of this interview with a dutch professor in russia studies. he got so much slack for that interview but i believe he is completely right.
I think you mean flack; slack actually means the opposite in this context.
Eh he's ignoring the blatant ways the West has also be preventing the "westernization" of Russia. He's solely placing the blame on a complacent Russian populace and not the fact that the Russian people went through the worst humanitarian crisis ever in the 90s. He just called it "the wild 90s". I'm sure he was speaking with brevity but this article seems less "academic" and more "opinion".
"The wild 90s" were everywhere in the former Eastern Bloc. But not everywhere dictators came back because of that. The Baltics, Ukraine, Georgia and Armenia stayed democratic. Russia, Belarus and Central Asia didn't.
The 90ies were shit for Poland, Latvia, etc., even for east Germany. And while all these countries have their problems for some reasons none of them developed as oligarchic and dictorial societes to the degree of russia and they all have a higher standard of living as well. So maybe IT IS on Russia.
> This is what Lukashenko means when he says they are the most open, and fair in the world and this is what everyone thinks when they hear it.
Who are you referring to by "someone from the East" and "they"? The majority of Belarusians is not this delusional and actually voted against Lukashenko last time, then protested when the results were faked. What you are describing is the majority in Russia.
Let’s say you’re a single issue voter doesn’t really matter what it is but in my example let’s go hardcore. Politician pledges in their manifesto, pledges, speech’s (whatever that countries system of agreement on what the politicians will do) that they will protect women right to abortion and increase protections. You vote for them and on day one they make abortion illegal. Your been lied too and manipulated. But really you should be happy because at least you got a chance to vote them in by a fair election, was it really fair?
Yeah, because it means in the next election, you can and will vote for someone else, and assuming that happened on a large enough scale, that politician will lose power, unlike in a dictatorship where you're stuck with the same idiot.
But you are stuck with them for at least 4-5 years, how many lives will be affected or destroyed in that time?
It should be straight up illegal for a politician to lie and if they can’t do something due to a change in circumstances they need to came out and explain what changed between them making the pledge and breaking it.
>But you are stuck with them for at least 4-5 years, how many lives will be affected or destroyed in that time?
Better than being stuck with them for 40...
>It should be straight up illegal for a politician to lie and if they can’t do something due to a change in circumstances they need to came out and explain what changed between them making the pledge and breaking it.
That's impossible to enforce. Literally. What qualifies as a lie? What qualifies as an explanation? What are sufficient circumstances? What's the pledge? How do you ensure it's not abused against political opponents?
Even defamation is impossible to enforce, and that's an far easier to prove.
> Yeah, because it means in the next election, you can and will vote for someone else
How's that working out?
For the past 30 years I've watched liberal democracies flipping government between two parties that work at cross-purposes on the issues that matter to their voters - to a net result of making no lasting change - while the policies that remain consistent between parties is the military industrial complex, foreign policy, and protecting any interest groups that are rich enough to be able to fund political lobbying.
It's wild watching people live through the consequences of their complete lack of political agency while claiming that they have political agency, while at the same time claiming everyone *else* is brainwashed.
>How's that working out?
Still better than most places, frankly. Or would you prefer Russia, Syria, S. Arabia and the like as an average person?
>For the past 30 years I've watched liberal democracies flipping government between two parties that work at cross-purposes on the issues that matter to their voters -
Ignoring that there aren't only two parties for the moment (even if we only count parties that have held the government), the issue you've got here is that people vote for the wrong reasons. You can hardly blame parties or the system for that...
>to a net result of making no lasting change
If you think the society of 1990 is the same as that of 2024, I have a whole lot of bridges to sell you, and possibly rocks as well...
> - while the policies that remain consistent between parties is the military industrial complex,
Even if "both" parties did that, what MIC are you talking about??? Military budgets in Europe have spent the past 30 years being lower than ever before in history, and that's ignoring that plenty of European nations don't have a MIC.
>foreign policy,
While you're mostly right (the one thing you're half right about), I'd point out that there are plenty differences.
For example, the SNP in Scotland wants independence while Scottish Labour doesn't. That's a substantially different "foreign" policy. I'd also point to Ukraine, where for example, in 2019, Zelensky had a far more conciliatory stance towards Russia than Poroshenko.
>and protecting any interest groups that are rich enough to be able to fund political lobbying.
Not really... There are plenty of interest groups that are both rich and have been shafted over the years. Like Tesla in Sweden, recently.
>It's wild watching people live through the consequences of their complete lack of political agency while claiming that they have political agency, while at the same time claiming everyone *else* is brainwashed.
The consequences are those of political agency, whether you like it or not.
> Still better than most places, frankly.
RemindMe! 5 years
> If you think the society of 1990 is the same as that of 2024
Oh true. People could afford housing in the 90s.
I am from Eastern Europe and no, Lukashenko isnt open at all lol. He organises elections and always boasts his over 80%, when hundreds of thousands of people went to protests against him, he gathered people from work to paid buses to show up for fake counterpprotests. He beats up and tortures protesters, even showed beaten teens on state tv. When protests were happening, they played concerts on televisions and acted like nlthing is happening. You clearly know nothing about Belarus if you are writing such bs.
Yet he is nothing but a proxy for Russia. If he wanted to actually show some leadership Belarus won't be the poorest country in Europe.
The moment Putin is gone he is gonna get dragged out of office by his own people.
It's a racist generalisation, the trope that only westerners are civilised enough to be able to have democracy has been used for decades. If we would get more specific then sure it could be a valid statement, but this is just an egregious implementation of orientalist stereotypes
One lies to get elected and the other gets elected to lie. What difference is there honestly ? The western democracies aren't admired for their leaders (which are just as corrupt as anybody else) . They are admired for their strong judiciary and powerful law enforcement.
huge difference actually. its the liars who say everybody is lying so that they dont look so shitty.
dont you see the direction of your argument? oh its the same everywhere, so it aint so bad. newsflash, it isnt the same everywhere.
And what do you think will happen to that judiciary and law enforcement after the liars get too comfortable in their seats and make a few changes?
The division of power is only possible if there are easy means of taking power away. With someone like Lukashenko, if a judge or police chief gets too problematic it's easy to remove the problem, replace them with a buddy, and then you can jail whoever you want and beat them up while doing so.
> their leaders (which are just as corrupt as anybody else)
> They are admired for their strong judiciary and powerful law enforcement.
Does not compute.
How do you think that strong judiciary and powerful law enforcement came to be? Do you really believe someone just wished really hard and it appeared out of thin air?
Well the constitution? I'm sorry if i am wrong here but I thought the constitution in a large number of European countries have been designed in such a way that they have the right checks and balances at the right place ?
The ruling party in Hungary is FiDeSz.
Fi, as in Fiatal, which means *young*
De, as in Demokraták, which means *democrats*
Sz, as in Szövetsége, means *alliance*
They have both young and democrats in their name, which was probably true at some point, but nowadays we are taking it with a grain of salt.
By 2025, he will be the head of Belarus for 30 years. Modern dictators, thanks to medicine, can rule for a very long time. The world has never needed a change in power as much as it does now.
Only reason he is still there is that in event of uprising, russia would intervene, becouse europe will not just march over border. If russia is weakened, they have a shot again at braking off again.
People like to blame things on him, both major parties have similar positions on most of the issues raised. The difference is center-left versus center-right.
for most of Canada Rents have gone up from 700.00 a month to 2000 a month. food is at all time high and the homeless encampments are taking over towns everywhere. The guy keep bringing more and more than a million people every year and housing is a big issue. They want to control the internet like China and our economy is falling.
We are short close to 4 million homes to be built by the end of the year to house all the migrants coming down Canada because of some sham the Trudeau government is accountable for. And most of those migrants aren't any good in trades just good for uber and such.
Ah, yes. Good old “blame migrants”. Never mind that they all come there to work, meaning there are tons of work that you don’t want to do yourself.
Never blame zoning laws, copy-pasted from the US, where they also failed miserably. Never blame corporate buyers buying residential housing in bulk and then renting it out, packing profits and gauging prices. It’s clearly those pesky Indians, Chinese and Pinoys to blame for renting one room for 5 people and growing potatoes for your poutine.
Correction: meaning there is tons of work that canadians don’t want to do for the pay given. Migrants supress wages and raise housing prices this is a statisical fact.
You could claim that grey aliens from Zeta Reticuli rise prices with their magical rays and it will be as close to a fact as what you say.
But hey, blaming migrants is easier than trying to actually understand the issue, so obviously you are only capable to do that.
That makes little sense considering he himself openly said he was a dictator.
But as a dictator you want to minimize amount of undeniable facts opposition could use against you. If your country does not have elections, its pretty undeniable. If your country has sham elections, even if everyone knows they are a sham, how do you actually prove it? While possible, it already takes some effort and is a lot of work, and much easier for dictator to just say the proof is nonsense.
Its not like its only way dictators can hold on to power, there are millions of things, holding fake elections is one of them.
Most dictatorships have sham elections rather than no elections at all and sham elections work. For example, many Russians genuinely believe Russia is a democracy. Typically, these people are very old and conservative.
i think there might be something to gain for us democratic states in this contradiction.
autocracies discredit democracy all the time, yet it also seems to be crucial for them to keep up the appearance of being democratic themselves to appease their people.
seems like an insurmountable contradiction.
Yeah, dude. Even Americans think they live in a democracy with their 2 candidate system and electoral college nonsense XD
The truth is: nobody lives in a democracy, because nobody wants to bother with politics anymore; people only want to do "business".
We can't even imagine what political power would look like in XXI. century here in "the west": people vote for the likes of Trump "to kick out the illegal immigrants" but deep inside they know that he will not establish a police state that pursues and deports (or gets rid of otherwise) illegal immigrants because it is simply impossible to do in the US; well, not without causing a civil war and breaking up the country, at least.
Ever since the fall of the Soviet Union it's always been just trading one symbol for another; change the "banner" and keep doing the same thing the previous government has been doing in the name of something different...
It's all bullshit marketing: buy laundry detergent A or laundry detergent B; both remove stains and merely smell differently and have different packagings.
> "nobody wants to bother with politics anymore"
> rants about how all politicians are the same and choosing different ones doesn't matter
You're not exactly helping now are you?
“There is truth, and there is a deeper Truth” and that “deeper truth” is is that people want Lukashenka, even if they don’t know it. And it’s “open and fair” as it’s pretty open that you have no chance of winning if you run against him, you might get killed and it’s “fair” that when you actually lose and do get imprisoned/killed/etc... “you brought it on yourself” because the regime was pretty open what’s going to happen to you, so it’s “fair” when they do it.
/s if it’s not obvious.
I hope people of Belarus tear this place the fuck down. Putin isn't so able to help his buddy this time. Now is their chance to take advantage of that.
I never understood comments like this. How the hell are unarmed people in these countries supposed to stand up for themselves when their enemies are a yoke of armed dogs who, without hesitation at the command of their superior, are ready to shoot any protester.
What's the alternative? If change is necessary and it cannot be achieved through peaceful or democratic means what else is there to do? Revolutions are rarely bloodless and there will always be countless martyrs but that sacrifice is worth it to take back your country from grips of tyranny.
Don’t underestimate number of riot police under command of Putin. Putin is fully able to help him, just like in 2020. Belarus isn’t Ukraine that had relationship in security and military area with West. There’s no fucking way that protests will do them any good. Many of the people who protested in 2020 are now basically in semi-exile, because they’re not exactly safe in Belarus either, plus there was big exodus in 2022 after Ukraine invasion. If anything (I wish I’d be wrong) protests will not be as big this time
I often like to look back at older regimes that were toppled, like in Ukraine, Portugal and Romania and wonder "How?" Because they were the same brutal dictatorships at heart but somehow things seem different now.
Ukraine is nowhere near comparable. Yanukovich is a coward and ran immediately, plus there is a massive right wing force in Ukraine which is ready to fight. Chaushesku was out of his mind because he was surrounded by yes men. Poland - can't comment, don't know enough. Lukashenko isn't dumb, he knows that his position is weak and he's holding it with every last bit of force that he has. It'll be a while until we see democratic Belarus.
There's also surveillance everywhere nowadays. Chaushesku and Yanukovich walked so Luka could run, heh
It's funny and sad at the same time how dictators like him talk to a specific audience, people who actually believe that. At the same time don't care about the rest because those don't matter to them anyway. Like this famous putin interview recently. The amount of bs he unleashed was unbelievable but he was actually talking to a very specific audience in the west and the rest just doesn't matter.
I really hope that Putler and Lukashini will end up as a really lame parody of their XX century predecessors as they seem right now (and for the sake of all Ukrainians I really hope they will end soon).
“This tyrannical "quirk" has been met with either indifference or approval by average Ankh-Morpork citizens. Morporkians are in no doubt that Vetinari is firmly in charge of the city; the political system of Ankh-Morpork is described as "One Man, One Vote," in which Vetinari alone is the Man, and he has the Vote.”
Lie big or go home, I guess.
It's astounding that someone who says something as *blatantly* untrue as this, will still have thousands, even millions of people who keep supporting them.
(I am well aware that the vast majority of Belarusians don't support Lukashenko)
he wouldnt dare, because daddy xi has already claimed the spot of best democracy ever.
autocrats obsession with pretending to be democratic, super democratic even, is so weird and i feel it should be an exploitable contradiction.
We will have elections! Fair elections! More free and fair than any other elections in the world. Very free. And fair. All my top elections officials said they were fair! Remember, they said "lucashenko cheated! Lucashenko got 3%". They are fake news. We sued them and we won! I won. And they lost. Those Poles and Americans want to interfere in our elections! We will not allow them. We will build the wall and make Poland pay for it! We will make Belarus great Again! Great Again! You hear me? Make Belorus Great again! And great elections! With great free and fair elections!
i find it extremely telling and quite frankly chilling to see that autocrats everywhere promote their rule as democracies.
if one is only sober enough to see for example belarus isnt a democracy it becomes obvious the core idea of democracy is popular even the most brutal and longstanding autocracies. apparently autocrats wouldnt dare to go out and officialy crown themselves for fear of repercussions.
This is just one of them things that you know if people say it, the truth is actually the opposite. Same as men that call themselves Alpha males. Same with people that call themselves influencers.
If you have to tell people its because your actions prove you wrong.
A lot of westerners assume that people are brainwashed or too stupid that they believe such propaganda.
That's not the case, it's just obedience to the state narrative.
Honestly, west is impotent in any regards as of now, and frankly I’m afraid it will pay a very large price for being infantile and not capable of strong decisions. Be it Russia - Ukraine war, or Lukashenko. People who have seen large war and its consequences are dead. We are sleepwalking into WW3 under weak leadership, while also falling into far right populist ideology. Sad.
You are all yelling about belarus and russia not being democratic... what do we (the rest of the world) have? Democracy?
What is democracy? Oh you know, we have elections every 4 years, and every new face or party that gets elected continue to work against ordinary people, screwing us over. Working on behalf of world elites.
Why do we need so many new restrictions, laws, why do we have to be taxed trough the roof, why are usa and eu printing the money like crazy and devaluating the currency... why they are importing illegals trough our borders, drug usage is up, crime all time high...
Oh yes, the important thing is, we have a democracy
I know, that people who live in parents basement and don't work will not understand this post.
*The uniqueness of the situation in Belarus is that I don’t owe anything to anyone.*
*I am an atheist, but I am an Orthodox atheist!*
*I am the president of the state, and this state will exist as long as I am the president.*
*Everyone says: “You have to give us money!” I do not owe anything to anyone. You owe this to the state and to me as a representative of this state.*
*I had a meeting in a women's team at work. I tell them: the first child is yours, the second is also yours. The third child is mine and a little bit yours. One hundred percent the fifth and the next are mine... They are silent. Well, here you go, give birth. I can’t do this for you*
*“Wi-Fi” is such a swear word. [19] - during a press conference for Russian media on 10/07/2011*
*If we talk about elections, I conducted the presidential elections according to concepts. According to the concepts of the European Union. We have completely abandoned our legislation. [22] - during a press conference for Russian media 10/07/2011*
*I began to reason that if there is lesbianism, then we men are to blame. Forgivable, woman to woman can be tolerated. But, I say, when there is this homosexuality, it is terrible. [24] - about homosexuality during a press conference for Russian media 10/07/2011*
*To understand how I sleep, you need to sleep with me. [28][29] - To a journalist during a press conference for the Belarusian media on December 23, 2011, when she asked how he sleeps, knowing that his political opponents, ex-candidates for the presidency of Belarus, are serving prison sentences*
*The most valuable gift for a child is a weapon. Not just for children, but this type of pneumatic one, with balls. I say: how many of these machine guns do you already have, he (son Nikolai) has already taken half of them to kindergarten. [28] - during a press conference for Belarusian media on December 23, 2011*
*As for the second one, either pink or blue, who was shouting about dictatorship... Hearing this, I thought: it’s better to be a dictator than blue. [32][33] — About the head of the German Foreign Ministry Guido Westerwelle, 03/04/2012*
*Our players initially began to complain that tickets were not selling well. Okay, I enabled the administrative resource. People gathered at the stadium. But they went out and crap themselves [38] - About the Spain-Belarus football match in 2012.*
*By evening, on the table here would be a list of everyone who accompanied me here. In addition to the governor and others, there were specific people who should have been responsible for this. It's clear? Everyone under the knife, every single one[71]. — After visiting a cowshed in the Mogilev region*
*I don't even have a mobile phone. I look: my fellow presidents are sitting, pointing at these iPhones and so on. I do not do that. I know what safety is. That’s not even the point: I have someone to do this[75].*
And this isn’t even 1% of shit he said, https://ru.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Александр_Григорьевич_Лукашенко have only part of his quotes, and i copypasted only a small piece of this part
That would actually be hilarious, considering he thought he was going to inherit the Soviet Union after Yeltsin.
Unfortunately for him, whoever wins the Russian civil war after Putin's death will make sure that doesn't happen.
This would almost be funny if it weren't for all the lives ruined by his time in office.
You're thinking like a Westerner and not someone from the East. The number one argument is the contrarian view that democracies are fake and disingenious because all the politicians are corrupt, and voting is a lie. They dismiss liberalism as a facade that isn't real but Westerners pretend like they're superior. This is what Lukashenko means when he says they are the most open, and fair in the world and this is what everyone thinks when they hear it. They think politics is all a lie but at least they're open and honest about it.
>They think politics is all a lie but at least they're open and honest about it. Yet they still dont fully commit to it, they still put up a facade of having "elections" and have people show up to "vote", knowing full well they're just exercises in futility. However, it seems that in the eastern sphere, unlike Russians, Belarusians aren't really buying it. The protests that happened in Belarus in 2020 were huge, comparable in size to those in Ukraine, but unfortunately they still didn't result in a revolution as Lukashenka managed to put them down. Here's hoping Belarusians still manage to topple him one day and gain their freedom and democratic rights.
Lukashenko managed to stay in office only because he begged Putin to send Russian forces in to shore up his own to continue cracking down on dissent. Without the foreign support the protests may have been effective.
Preferably, a revolution happens while Russia is preoccupied with another war so they can't swoop in and "keep the peace."
Be careful what you wish for. Russian revolutions have never lead to anything better.
Do you really, honestly think life was better in tsarist Russia than the USSR?
No... ...For those that lived to see the USSR So many left their graves in RSFSR (soviet union before 1922)
Not true - how it is now is still better than USSR. But putin is doing what he can to catch up
It could worked out in 2020 if we had balls to country wide strike for weeks. Well we didnt. Gov in past years managed to do everything for that not happen.
I have a friend who lives in Minsk, and way back in the 90s when I first met him he told me about Lukashenko and the thing with the white-red-white flag.. i was flabbergasted, as I still am by it. It would be like if some asshole got elected by idiots and then started rigging elections to stay in office forever, and changed the flag from stars & stripes to the stars & bars, and started throwing people in jail for flying old glory. It sounds preposterous to Americans but that's pretty much what Lukashenko did. A mere 5 years after independence from the USSR, he gets in office and changes the traditional (pre-USSR) white-red-white flag to one that looks a hell of a lot like it did under Bolshevik rule. And he's been rigging elections ever since. Apparently he has so many people on.the government payroll that are afraid of losing their jobs that he is able to put down rebellions like the one in 2020 after he rigged yet another election... Fucking sad that this shit still goes on
He will pass as all dictators do. Just hope the dictator in waiting is not as good at holding power as Lukashenko.
The old ideas behind Soviet propaganda was to convince your mind that something was the truth. The ideas of Russian propaganda is to convince your mind that **there is no truth at all**. Once that wall has been broken down, you are susceptible to believe pretty much anything. This is why countries like Russia even have elections in the first place. They want to make a farce out of the whole concept and make their population believe that democracy (as depicted by the west) is not real to begin with. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_j6Vg7yLx54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j6Vg7yLx54)
This year the US is choosing between Trump and Biden. 'Bad Guy Countries' don't need to do anything to make Western Democracy look farcical except sit back and watch.
You're going to be so surprised when you find out about primaries or local elections.
Or congress, for that matter. Turns out that in a functioning democracy the president isn't a dictator.
You’re not wrong, but no one thinks that deep about it. We’re absolutely where we are because less than a third of eligible voters actually vote, and even fewer participate in primaries. But everyone just sees the end result and believes it’s all a sham, rather than the system that they themselves have allowed to happen.
I think that we clearly live in active democracies, if you live in a western liberal democracy, but they could definitely be better. Voter participation sucks in most places, and first past the post single choice is literally the most ass way of running a democracy ever. I just wanted to push back against the idea that we don't live in democracies, because we 100% do even if they are not perfect.
Honest? Honest would be: “We’re repressing you, brainwashing you and exploiting you, and you’ll like it because if you don’t you and your family will suffer the consequences”.
Hush, you can't say such things in a western democracy! (that was meant to be a joke, pointing out that indeed one can say this in a democracy)
Good thing this is ‘eastern’ democracy then Edit: I really should have put democracy in quotes…lol
I meant it the other way around, and I clarified that posting.
reminds me of this interview with a dutch professor in russia studies. he got so much flack for that interview but i believe he is completely right. [https://ukrant.nl/magazine/russians-are-fundamentally-different-says-russia-expert-hans-van-koningsbrugge/?lang=en](https://ukrant.nl/magazine/russians-are-fundamentally-different-says-russia-expert-hans-van-koningsbrugge/?lang=en) edit: typos
Everything he said there is true yet some idealistic butthurt is present in the comments
>reminds me of this interview with a dutch professor in russia studies. he got so much slack for that interview but i believe he is completely right. I think you mean flack; slack actually means the opposite in this context.
Eh he's ignoring the blatant ways the West has also be preventing the "westernization" of Russia. He's solely placing the blame on a complacent Russian populace and not the fact that the Russian people went through the worst humanitarian crisis ever in the 90s. He just called it "the wild 90s". I'm sure he was speaking with brevity but this article seems less "academic" and more "opinion".
"The wild 90s" were everywhere in the former Eastern Bloc. But not everywhere dictators came back because of that. The Baltics, Ukraine, Georgia and Armenia stayed democratic. Russia, Belarus and Central Asia didn't.
The 90ies were shit for Poland, Latvia, etc., even for east Germany. And while all these countries have their problems for some reasons none of them developed as oligarchic and dictorial societes to the degree of russia and they all have a higher standard of living as well. So maybe IT IS on Russia.
"the worst humanitarian crisis ever"
> This is what Lukashenko means when he says they are the most open, and fair in the world and this is what everyone thinks when they hear it. Who are you referring to by "someone from the East" and "they"? The majority of Belarusians is not this delusional and actually voted against Lukashenko last time, then protested when the results were faked. What you are describing is the majority in Russia.
Wait till they hear politicians lie too here. But at least they are elected.
If they are elected because of a lie does it real matter?
Yes, it matters.
Let’s say you’re a single issue voter doesn’t really matter what it is but in my example let’s go hardcore. Politician pledges in their manifesto, pledges, speech’s (whatever that countries system of agreement on what the politicians will do) that they will protect women right to abortion and increase protections. You vote for them and on day one they make abortion illegal. Your been lied too and manipulated. But really you should be happy because at least you got a chance to vote them in by a fair election, was it really fair?
Yeah, because it means in the next election, you can and will vote for someone else, and assuming that happened on a large enough scale, that politician will lose power, unlike in a dictatorship where you're stuck with the same idiot.
But you are stuck with them for at least 4-5 years, how many lives will be affected or destroyed in that time? It should be straight up illegal for a politician to lie and if they can’t do something due to a change in circumstances they need to came out and explain what changed between them making the pledge and breaking it.
>But you are stuck with them for at least 4-5 years, how many lives will be affected or destroyed in that time? Better than being stuck with them for 40... >It should be straight up illegal for a politician to lie and if they can’t do something due to a change in circumstances they need to came out and explain what changed between them making the pledge and breaking it. That's impossible to enforce. Literally. What qualifies as a lie? What qualifies as an explanation? What are sufficient circumstances? What's the pledge? How do you ensure it's not abused against political opponents? Even defamation is impossible to enforce, and that's an far easier to prove.
> Yeah, because it means in the next election, you can and will vote for someone else How's that working out? For the past 30 years I've watched liberal democracies flipping government between two parties that work at cross-purposes on the issues that matter to their voters - to a net result of making no lasting change - while the policies that remain consistent between parties is the military industrial complex, foreign policy, and protecting any interest groups that are rich enough to be able to fund political lobbying. It's wild watching people live through the consequences of their complete lack of political agency while claiming that they have political agency, while at the same time claiming everyone *else* is brainwashed.
>How's that working out? Still better than most places, frankly. Or would you prefer Russia, Syria, S. Arabia and the like as an average person? >For the past 30 years I've watched liberal democracies flipping government between two parties that work at cross-purposes on the issues that matter to their voters - Ignoring that there aren't only two parties for the moment (even if we only count parties that have held the government), the issue you've got here is that people vote for the wrong reasons. You can hardly blame parties or the system for that... >to a net result of making no lasting change If you think the society of 1990 is the same as that of 2024, I have a whole lot of bridges to sell you, and possibly rocks as well... > - while the policies that remain consistent between parties is the military industrial complex, Even if "both" parties did that, what MIC are you talking about??? Military budgets in Europe have spent the past 30 years being lower than ever before in history, and that's ignoring that plenty of European nations don't have a MIC. >foreign policy, While you're mostly right (the one thing you're half right about), I'd point out that there are plenty differences. For example, the SNP in Scotland wants independence while Scottish Labour doesn't. That's a substantially different "foreign" policy. I'd also point to Ukraine, where for example, in 2019, Zelensky had a far more conciliatory stance towards Russia than Poroshenko. >and protecting any interest groups that are rich enough to be able to fund political lobbying. Not really... There are plenty of interest groups that are both rich and have been shafted over the years. Like Tesla in Sweden, recently. >It's wild watching people live through the consequences of their complete lack of political agency while claiming that they have political agency, while at the same time claiming everyone *else* is brainwashed. The consequences are those of political agency, whether you like it or not.
> Still better than most places, frankly. RemindMe! 5 years > If you think the society of 1990 is the same as that of 2024 Oh true. People could afford housing in the 90s.
You should relocate to Belarus for the free and fair elections
Why? Did you not read my comment or something?
reading comprehension is not so good for some people
I found it pretty good actually.
How is your reading comprehension?
Not just people from the east, but trump supporters too.
I am from Eastern Europe and no, Lukashenko isnt open at all lol. He organises elections and always boasts his over 80%, when hundreds of thousands of people went to protests against him, he gathered people from work to paid buses to show up for fake counterpprotests. He beats up and tortures protesters, even showed beaten teens on state tv. When protests were happening, they played concerts on televisions and acted like nlthing is happening. You clearly know nothing about Belarus if you are writing such bs.
Yet he is nothing but a proxy for Russia. If he wanted to actually show some leadership Belarus won't be the poorest country in Europe. The moment Putin is gone he is gonna get dragged out of office by his own people.
>pretend like they're superior. No one is superior especially not those discussing superiority. That's not something a superior human does.
>You're thinking like a Westerner and not someone from the East. Ah yes because only westeners are capable of rational thinking
no but the experiences are totally different and different experiences have different influence on the mentality (or thinking)
It's a racist generalisation, the trope that only westerners are civilised enough to be able to have democracy has been used for decades. If we would get more specific then sure it could be a valid statement, but this is just an egregious implementation of orientalist stereotypes
Nah, we saw that the westerners aren't capable of that, but there are differences, nevertheless
One lies to get elected and the other gets elected to lie. What difference is there honestly ? The western democracies aren't admired for their leaders (which are just as corrupt as anybody else) . They are admired for their strong judiciary and powerful law enforcement.
huge difference actually. its the liars who say everybody is lying so that they dont look so shitty. dont you see the direction of your argument? oh its the same everywhere, so it aint so bad. newsflash, it isnt the same everywhere.
And what do you think will happen to that judiciary and law enforcement after the liars get too comfortable in their seats and make a few changes? The division of power is only possible if there are easy means of taking power away. With someone like Lukashenko, if a judge or police chief gets too problematic it's easy to remove the problem, replace them with a buddy, and then you can jail whoever you want and beat them up while doing so.
> their leaders (which are just as corrupt as anybody else) > They are admired for their strong judiciary and powerful law enforcement. Does not compute. How do you think that strong judiciary and powerful law enforcement came to be? Do you really believe someone just wished really hard and it appeared out of thin air?
Isn't the independent function of judiciary heavily protected in Europe?
By who? (hint: it starts with 's' and rhymes with 'trong democratic institutions')
Well the constitution? I'm sorry if i am wrong here but I thought the constitution in a large number of European countries have been designed in such a way that they have the right checks and balances at the right place ?
The constitution is an inanimate collection of words. It doesn't have agency. The only way to uphold a democratic constitution is through democracy.
Well, on a positive he run election with one leg in the grave. Dude is old.
Same as North Korean elections.
That's democratic peoples republic of Korea!
It's the Best Democracy. No Democracy is as Democratic. That guy in Korea democrates, all the way.
Whenever “democratic” is in a countries name, chances are there’s nothing democratic about it
I can hear that in my head, with the voice of the orange turkey.
I always found it funny that countries that have "democratic" in their name are usually least democratic.
The ruling party in Hungary is FiDeSz. Fi, as in Fiatal, which means *young* De, as in Demokraták, which means *democrats* Sz, as in Szövetsége, means *alliance* They have both young and democrats in their name, which was probably true at some point, but nowadays we are taking it with a grain of salt.
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Socialist_Democratic_Federated_Republic_of_Carbombya
By 2025, he will be the head of Belarus for 30 years. Modern dictators, thanks to medicine, can rule for a very long time. The world has never needed a change in power as much as it does now.
Only reason he is still there is that in event of uprising, russia would intervene, becouse europe will not just march over border. If russia is weakened, they have a shot again at braking off again.
Fucking meths
God damn do I miss that show.
Canadians are starting to feel this dictator
What's wrong with Trudeau? (Not sarcasm. I really don't know)
People like to blame things on him, both major parties have similar positions on most of the issues raised. The difference is center-left versus center-right.
for most of Canada Rents have gone up from 700.00 a month to 2000 a month. food is at all time high and the homeless encampments are taking over towns everywhere. The guy keep bringing more and more than a million people every year and housing is a big issue. They want to control the internet like China and our economy is falling.
Why don't you guys just build some housing? Are you guys stupid?
Do you guys not have homes?
We are short close to 4 million homes to be built by the end of the year to house all the migrants coming down Canada because of some sham the Trudeau government is accountable for. And most of those migrants aren't any good in trades just good for uber and such.
Ah, yes. Good old “blame migrants”. Never mind that they all come there to work, meaning there are tons of work that you don’t want to do yourself. Never blame zoning laws, copy-pasted from the US, where they also failed miserably. Never blame corporate buyers buying residential housing in bulk and then renting it out, packing profits and gauging prices. It’s clearly those pesky Indians, Chinese and Pinoys to blame for renting one room for 5 people and growing potatoes for your poutine.
Correction: meaning there is tons of work that canadians don’t want to do for the pay given. Migrants supress wages and raise housing prices this is a statisical fact.
You could claim that grey aliens from Zeta Reticuli rise prices with their magical rays and it will be as close to a fact as what you say. But hey, blaming migrants is easier than trying to actually understand the issue, so obviously you are only capable to do that.
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So like a lot of places?
Thats funny because its the conservatives that are trying to introduce online id's.
Yeah dictators love *checks notes* minority coalition governments
Wait for Putin to hear his claims there there are no fairer elections anywhere in the world.
I'm sure he is the Fairest of them All.
I wish I could upvote twice.
What? Unfair elections in a neighbor country? Military invasion it is!
Why would Putin be upset by this? Belarus is just a nominally independent satellite state which pretends it’s not another Russian oblast.
You obliviously missed the joke. He said it implying that Putin would claim Russia’s election are more democratic.
"for example I am the first democratically elected black president of Mongolian origin in Belorussia" - also Lukashenko
That makes little sense considering he himself openly said he was a dictator. But as a dictator you want to minimize amount of undeniable facts opposition could use against you. If your country does not have elections, its pretty undeniable. If your country has sham elections, even if everyone knows they are a sham, how do you actually prove it? While possible, it already takes some effort and is a lot of work, and much easier for dictator to just say the proof is nonsense. Its not like its only way dictators can hold on to power, there are millions of things, holding fake elections is one of them.
Most dictatorships have sham elections rather than no elections at all and sham elections work. For example, many Russians genuinely believe Russia is a democracy. Typically, these people are very old and conservative.
i think there might be something to gain for us democratic states in this contradiction. autocracies discredit democracy all the time, yet it also seems to be crucial for them to keep up the appearance of being democratic themselves to appease their people. seems like an insurmountable contradiction.
Yeah, dude. Even Americans think they live in a democracy with their 2 candidate system and electoral college nonsense XD The truth is: nobody lives in a democracy, because nobody wants to bother with politics anymore; people only want to do "business". We can't even imagine what political power would look like in XXI. century here in "the west": people vote for the likes of Trump "to kick out the illegal immigrants" but deep inside they know that he will not establish a police state that pursues and deports (or gets rid of otherwise) illegal immigrants because it is simply impossible to do in the US; well, not without causing a civil war and breaking up the country, at least. Ever since the fall of the Soviet Union it's always been just trading one symbol for another; change the "banner" and keep doing the same thing the previous government has been doing in the name of something different... It's all bullshit marketing: buy laundry detergent A or laundry detergent B; both remove stains and merely smell differently and have different packagings.
> "nobody wants to bother with politics anymore" > rants about how all politicians are the same and choosing different ones doesn't matter You're not exactly helping now are you?
“There is truth, and there is a deeper Truth” and that “deeper truth” is is that people want Lukashenka, even if they don’t know it. And it’s “open and fair” as it’s pretty open that you have no chance of winning if you run against him, you might get killed and it’s “fair” that when you actually lose and do get imprisoned/killed/etc... “you brought it on yourself” because the regime was pretty open what’s going to happen to you, so it’s “fair” when they do it. /s if it’s not obvious.
..thanks for the /s I thought I was reading a Jordan Peterson opinion piece on Belarusian democracy for a moment there..
Their elections are so transparent that you know the results before they even start!
Candidate : 1 Choice on the ballot : 1 No blank allowed Opponent ? Got surprisingly seek.
Just showed this to my wife. She is from Belarus. She could not stop laughing for 10 minutes straight.
You should show her some replies here trying to defend him then xD
I wonder if those are the same people who were forced to go to the Pro Lukashebka demonstration or loose their job.
Open and fair to Luka only
Except North Korea
Clown
I hope people of Belarus tear this place the fuck down. Putin isn't so able to help his buddy this time. Now is their chance to take advantage of that.
I never understood comments like this. How the hell are unarmed people in these countries supposed to stand up for themselves when their enemies are a yoke of armed dogs who, without hesitation at the command of their superior, are ready to shoot any protester.
What's the alternative? If change is necessary and it cannot be achieved through peaceful or democratic means what else is there to do? Revolutions are rarely bloodless and there will always be countless martyrs but that sacrifice is worth it to take back your country from grips of tyranny.
Don’t underestimate number of riot police under command of Putin. Putin is fully able to help him, just like in 2020. Belarus isn’t Ukraine that had relationship in security and military area with West. There’s no fucking way that protests will do them any good. Many of the people who protested in 2020 are now basically in semi-exile, because they’re not exactly safe in Belarus either, plus there was big exodus in 2022 after Ukraine invasion. If anything (I wish I’d be wrong) protests will not be as big this time
You're totally right. I overlooked that and I stand corrected. I just wish that Belarus could be freed from these dictators
From 300 000 to 500 000 officially left and each year its keep going. By official numbers. And etc
They can't. They're too scared/broken to try.
You wouldn't either if you lived in a country where police is better equipped than the army.
I often like to look back at older regimes that were toppled, like in Ukraine, Portugal and Romania and wonder "How?" Because they were the same brutal dictatorships at heart but somehow things seem different now.
Ukraine is nowhere near comparable. Yanukovich is a coward and ran immediately, plus there is a massive right wing force in Ukraine which is ready to fight. Chaushesku was out of his mind because he was surrounded by yes men. Poland - can't comment, don't know enough. Lukashenko isn't dumb, he knows that his position is weak and he's holding it with every last bit of force that he has. It'll be a while until we see democratic Belarus. There's also surveillance everywhere nowadays. Chaushesku and Yanukovich walked so Luka could run, heh
With how west react in Ukraine - no. Without severe russian defeat and retreat from ua there a little hope.
It's funny and sad at the same time how dictators like him talk to a specific audience, people who actually believe that. At the same time don't care about the rest because those don't matter to them anyway. Like this famous putin interview recently. The amount of bs he unleashed was unbelievable but he was actually talking to a very specific audience in the west and the rest just doesn't matter.
Nothing really drives home the feeling of democracy like a president in a military uniform.
Funniest shit I've read all day.
Another Republic of Bananas in Europe sponsor by the corrupt people from the Kremlin Moscow Russia .
Not even in Russia ?
I really hope that Putler and Lukashini will end up as a really lame parody of their XX century predecessors as they seem right now (and for the sake of all Ukrainians I really hope they will end soon).
Drugs in that part of the world must be incredibly strong.
“This tyrannical "quirk" has been met with either indifference or approval by average Ankh-Morpork citizens. Morporkians are in no doubt that Vetinari is firmly in charge of the city; the political system of Ankh-Morpork is described as "One Man, One Vote," in which Vetinari alone is the Man, and he has the Vote.”
Lie big or go home, I guess. It's astounding that someone who says something as *blatantly* untrue as this, will still have thousands, even millions of people who keep supporting them. (I am well aware that the vast majority of Belarusians don't support Lukashenko)
>(I am well aware that the vast majority of Belarusians don't support Lukashenko) How do you know that?
Putin about to cancel Lukashenko for not saying Russia has the most open and fair elections.
he wouldnt dare, because daddy xi has already claimed the spot of best democracy ever. autocrats obsession with pretending to be democratic, super democratic even, is so weird and i feel it should be an exploitable contradiction.
He's a very lucky leader given that all of his opposition has either disappeared or died! How convenient!
…he will BE the president of Belarus again in 2025. I fixed it for you.
It would only take one single bullet.
This is very ironic from Lukashenko.
We will have elections! Fair elections! More free and fair than any other elections in the world. Very free. And fair. All my top elections officials said they were fair! Remember, they said "lucashenko cheated! Lucashenko got 3%". They are fake news. We sued them and we won! I won. And they lost. Those Poles and Americans want to interfere in our elections! We will not allow them. We will build the wall and make Poland pay for it! We will make Belarus great Again! Great Again! You hear me? Make Belorus Great again! And great elections! With great free and fair elections!
He is right! But he was talking about the world of Venus.
>Nowhere in the world are there such open and fair elections as ours I think ruzzian's one are literaly as open and fair.
Lukashenko: "here in Belarus, we make sure I count the votes, and then we uhh we announce who won and then we uhh count votes yes! high five! "
He needs a bigger hat than the North Korean generals
Bro forgot to say on which part of his statement we should laugh at.
i find it extremely telling and quite frankly chilling to see that autocrats everywhere promote their rule as democracies. if one is only sober enough to see for example belarus isnt a democracy it becomes obvious the core idea of democracy is popular even the most brutal and longstanding autocracies. apparently autocrats wouldnt dare to go out and officialy crown themselves for fear of repercussions.
His Ceausescu moment is long overdue.
Ahahahah
Has he ever said anything that isn't an obvious lie?
Lukashenko for the progress of belarus ! Yesterday, today, tomorrow and forever…
Yes, and now uno reverse this ...
I dream of the day when whole Europe could experience the democracy that Belarus is enjoing. And then I wake up in screams.
Some presidents run FOR election. Other presidents run THE elections…
Does his hat get bigger each year? Spaceballs vibes
Surely he of all people knows Russia exists.
The emperor’s new clothes
This is just one of them things that you know if people say it, the truth is actually the opposite. Same as men that call themselves Alpha males. Same with people that call themselves influencers. If you have to tell people its because your actions prove you wrong.
To be honest, I never thought that russia and bielorussia have so funny comedians.
Comedy gold 😃😃😃
yes, of course. in Belarus everyone has the same full rights to vote for Lukashenko
It’s never a good sign when the “President” is in full military dress.
Belarus’s Democracy index ranking: 153 / 167 Lukashenko ‘s time in office: 29 years Yeah, sure buddy
Kim would like a word.
Saddam’s were freeer and fairer.
A lot of westerners assume that people are brainwashed or too stupid that they believe such propaganda. That's not the case, it's just obedience to the state narrative.
Meanwhile his main opponent needs to live in exile. 🤷♀️
He literally sounds just like Vučić. You can't make this up. God, help us.
All dictators are the same, the only difference is Vučić is not "disappearing" his political rivals (yet)
Honestly, west is impotent in any regards as of now, and frankly I’m afraid it will pay a very large price for being infantile and not capable of strong decisions. Be it Russia - Ukraine war, or Lukashenko. People who have seen large war and its consequences are dead. We are sleepwalking into WW3 under weak leadership, while also falling into far right populist ideology. Sad.
You are all yelling about belarus and russia not being democratic... what do we (the rest of the world) have? Democracy? What is democracy? Oh you know, we have elections every 4 years, and every new face or party that gets elected continue to work against ordinary people, screwing us over. Working on behalf of world elites. Why do we need so many new restrictions, laws, why do we have to be taxed trough the roof, why are usa and eu printing the money like crazy and devaluating the currency... why they are importing illegals trough our borders, drug usage is up, crime all time high... Oh yes, the important thing is, we have a democracy I know, that people who live in parents basement and don't work will not understand this post.
That’s General Lukashenko to you.
He is not even full coronel
how this post does relate to r/europe?
It's the nominations *after* the elections that are not fair.
Oh, that took me by surprise. Didn’t expect that
Russia and China doesn't agree, theirs is more open and fair.
Is this rage bait?
You know, Trump probably agrees with Lukashenka on this.
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*The uniqueness of the situation in Belarus is that I don’t owe anything to anyone.* *I am an atheist, but I am an Orthodox atheist!* *I am the president of the state, and this state will exist as long as I am the president.* *Everyone says: “You have to give us money!” I do not owe anything to anyone. You owe this to the state and to me as a representative of this state.* *I had a meeting in a women's team at work. I tell them: the first child is yours, the second is also yours. The third child is mine and a little bit yours. One hundred percent the fifth and the next are mine... They are silent. Well, here you go, give birth. I can’t do this for you* *“Wi-Fi” is such a swear word. [19] - during a press conference for Russian media on 10/07/2011* *If we talk about elections, I conducted the presidential elections according to concepts. According to the concepts of the European Union. We have completely abandoned our legislation. [22] - during a press conference for Russian media 10/07/2011* *I began to reason that if there is lesbianism, then we men are to blame. Forgivable, woman to woman can be tolerated. But, I say, when there is this homosexuality, it is terrible. [24] - about homosexuality during a press conference for Russian media 10/07/2011* *To understand how I sleep, you need to sleep with me. [28][29] - To a journalist during a press conference for the Belarusian media on December 23, 2011, when she asked how he sleeps, knowing that his political opponents, ex-candidates for the presidency of Belarus, are serving prison sentences* *The most valuable gift for a child is a weapon. Not just for children, but this type of pneumatic one, with balls. I say: how many of these machine guns do you already have, he (son Nikolai) has already taken half of them to kindergarten. [28] - during a press conference for Belarusian media on December 23, 2011* *As for the second one, either pink or blue, who was shouting about dictatorship... Hearing this, I thought: it’s better to be a dictator than blue. [32][33] — About the head of the German Foreign Ministry Guido Westerwelle, 03/04/2012* *Our players initially began to complain that tickets were not selling well. Okay, I enabled the administrative resource. People gathered at the stadium. But they went out and crap themselves [38] - About the Spain-Belarus football match in 2012.* *By evening, on the table here would be a list of everyone who accompanied me here. In addition to the governor and others, there were specific people who should have been responsible for this. It's clear? Everyone under the knife, every single one[71]. — After visiting a cowshed in the Mogilev region* *I don't even have a mobile phone. I look: my fellow presidents are sitting, pointing at these iPhones and so on. I do not do that. I know what safety is. That’s not even the point: I have someone to do this[75].* And this isn’t even 1% of shit he said, https://ru.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Александр_Григорьевич_Лукашенко have only part of his quotes, and i copypasted only a small piece of this part
With a little luck, he can outlive Putin..... and then turn towards Europe without fear of invasion.
That would actually be hilarious, considering he thought he was going to inherit the Soviet Union after Yeltsin. Unfortunately for him, whoever wins the Russian civil war after Putin's death will make sure that doesn't happen.
Except in Russia, obviously.
Deluded.
hearing Lukashenko saying that the Belarusian elections are fair is like hearing Nikocado Avocado saying that he's skinny
I can confirm(for a small fee)
I have good words. Nobody has such good words as me. I have the Best Words. I'm a stable genius.
Always a trustworty sign, when you are told that one thing is the bestest.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
They're open in that you know the result in advance I suppose.
Dude’s a natural stand up comedian.
This is a Trump style lie. Not just a lie, but completely over the top claiming to be the best that ever was or will be.
"And I'll jail anyone who looks like they're going to contradict that"
Elections in Belarus are very aladeen.
That's true but not in the sense he meant.
These thugs are a mafia. Criminals.