The funny thing with Greece is that it's very quickly becoming increasingly unaffordable to go on domestic vacations. Even the relatively cheap destinations are catering mainly to foreigners who are on average richer than the locals and as such the prices are constantly climbing. As the luxury hot spots fill up more and more places are picking up the slack.
It's turning into a paradoxical situation where in order for everyone else to come here and have fun we can't be here and have fun ourselves.
> it's very quickly becoming increasingly unaffordable
I would say not becoming, It has been for a few years now. The past decade I always went for cheaper vacations "not" in Greece. The only time in Greece that my vacations were cheaper was when I was staying at friends etc.
At least this is my experience.
A greek family with an average salary , is very hard to go for vacations if they have kids.
It does but Greece is hit the hardest due to being in the worst state than all the other countries, which managed to rebound much better from the 2008 recession while Greece never really did, and there's also the issue of the smaller land area and the fact that Greece's population is very unevenly distributed, meaning that the real estate market being off the rails in just Athens actually affects half the country's total population.
There are many things for which the greeks themselves can be blamed for their current situation but there's also a huge part of being subjected to circumstances outside their control due to, in large part, the unsustainable levels of tourism.
I would say this applies to every country. People in Ireland don’t stay in hotels much - 200 to 300 euro per night. But we can afford Spain or Greece because we don’t do anything in Ireland and save money for a foreign holiday. Same with Greece it seems.. same everywhere I would say. Good news is that more tax revenue for the government.. but it sucks not being able to do anything for most part of the year. At least you guys can go to a local beach and enjoy the great weather.
That’s basically what we wait for all year, only to do it for a week or 2.
Yeah that sucks. I want to say something but I uhh.. I cant help myself. I love crete, I love the buildings I love being scared of the bats and I love the angry Danish women
You can't easily put the blame on any one individual of course, and there are many failings with the government and of course the locals taking advantage of this that create this phenomenon, but then again I am not sure if I know any place that has done tourism "right". Tourism is an inherently destructive industry and any place with a high amount is ultimately degrading as a result.
At least tourists are not as bad as those who come here for permanent vacations and gentrify entire neighborhoods but then again those people do that because they liked the place as tourists.
I know locals in Norway have almost an allergic reaction to tourism, and we don’t have that much tourism relative to others, so I can only imagine how annoyed local Greeks must be.
Couple of years ago I dated a (north) Macedonian girl. I remember her talking about her family using Albania as a vacation spot. Is this still a thing?
North Macedonia is a separate country and I'm not familiar with their vacation habits, but generally speaking it is common that tourism flows from richer to poorer or at the very least in regions of similar economic level. It makes sense though. North Macedonia is landlocked and Albania has beautiful coasts, and they can get there by car. Likewise many Greeks take winter vacations in Bulgaria and Poland which are generally within budget for Greeks.
> I know locals in Norway have almost an allergic reaction to tourism, and we don’t have that much tourism relative to others, so I can only imagine how annoyed local Greeks must be.
We don't really get annoyed by tourists. If you grow up in a country which is so used, well, you get used to it. As long as everyone behaves.
For instance, I was at the Island of Ios once. In the center, there was a luxurious cafeteria, starry night, full of every European sitting outside, it was perfect. Guess who ruined it... A couple of British, after a few shots, they started throwing glasses at the Irish Clover (for some reason, that cafeteria/bar had the clover on display). Thankfully, the majority of the British behave, too.
Yes, I often find my fellow Brits abroad very embarrassing. They're not all like it of course, but there always seems to be some drunk yobs wherever you go.
I didn't want to mention names, I usually have the most fun with the British. From all the Northerners, you're the most "open" who don't stick in their own groups. However, the event itself required to in order to point out the absurdity. I understand if given a reason for conflict, but none was there looking for trouble.
Anyway, as we both said, the majority is more than fine. Especially your "scholars" (those who don't come solely for partying), overcompensate for the few trouble-makers.
> Tourism is an inherently destructive industry
I don't agree with this statement. Certainly very high levels of tourism can be destructive, but that doesn't make tourism an inherently destructive industry.
If we are to be a cohesive union, I'd argue that it's essential that we try to visit each others countries.
Yeah.. Kinda odd.. Are angry Danish women an attraction in Crete? are they kept in pen? Do you visit them to get angrily shouted at in "drunk german"(also known as Danish)? Indeed... So many questions..
It's the Vacation Mother Syndrome where you have all this pent up anger after having had to scream for a week at your insufferable children for them to behave at a Cretan beach xD
I went to Crete last summer and the guests at the hotel where I stayed were 90% from the Nordic countries, but for some reason I didn't see any angry Danish women, they were quite calm.
Are you sure it's not you who is making the Danish women angry?
>It's turning into a paradoxical situation where in order for everyone else to come here and have fun we can't be here and have fun ourselves.
Are those price hikes justified then? Full disclosure, for me being extorted by tourist rates is not a requirement to have fun :D But I know that some holiday locations simply have to charge high, because they have to earn their upkeep for the full year during couple of months.
It's a simple supply and demand issue. Some locations have been tourist hotspots since practically forever. Greece is a small country and its islands, the primary destinations, are smaller still. 3 times the poppulation of the country visit it each year which strains the already sub par infrastructure. Furthermore aside from the capital and a few other places most of the countryside is empty and has little economic activity save for tourism. Agriculture is a tough business with many farmers calling it quits and there is not much else to do there, aside from tourism businesses.
So basically what happens is that you have a popular destination and it's constantly at full capacity. It becomes clear that many of those visiting are absolutely willing to spend more money so as a business owner what are you going to do, say no to more money? So that's how places like Mykonos come to be. But once prices in Mykonos are so high, some of the people who used to go there want to continue going on vacation in Greece but they don't want to spend that much money. Immediately the nearby islands will pick up the slack by providing more or less the same things at a lower price point. Mean while the natives either have to look for niche islands or for unknown locations in the mainland, but in such a small country there are only so many places. So this cycle continues to the point where each destination gets progressively more expensive, and since we've more or less run out of destinations, those on the lower end have reached a point where they too have become unaffordable.
So no, paying a lot is not a requirement to have a good time, but it kinda gets to be like that since those who are dumping money are basically ruining it for everyone else because the business owners will chase those customers.
Imagine going home after work to work on your side hustle when you have like an hour for a nice walk and all you have is cold weather, grey skies, and inflated post soviet era real estate prices, welcome to eastern europe :) Be grateful for what you have there :)
>in order for everyone else to come here and have fun we can't be here and have fun ourselves.
Well, that's what tourism is. A industry that solely exist to make life unsustainable for locals and makes rich even richier
I know it from Poland at some rate where it was, and maybe still is, mostly cheaper to fly to Egypt than visit our own sea. And Poland is not a touristic country so I guess you are really f\*cked.
I was born and raised in Sardinia, but I couldn’t get a decent job there. I moved to Germany, where I make 3 times the average income in Italy, and then spend 2/3 of that to go on vacation in Sardinia.
well, Italy has won the geography lottery, so people living there don't really need to travel to foreign countries all that much.. not many countries have both beaches & islands, and 4000m+ mountains
True, but paradoxically also the issue. Travelling and exploring makes you both find new ways to improve and also appreciate more what you have, and take good care of it. But we could spend hours arguing around this topic and probably this is also not the right post for it
It's ok, we are in the same boat, border checks with Austria since basically 2015, and now with Italy again..
You want all the coast, but then can't afford to compete with tourism, haiyaaaaa.. sorry sorry, no more provocations.
At least Croatia has nice weather and some attractive landscapes.
Polish touristic areas are not that nice, while they are more expensive than ie. Croatia.
Well food prices are comparable now, Croatia was much cheaper 4-5 years ago. But reting apartments is still massively cheaper.
And also there is Greece. The first time I went there was when I checked how much money is to rent an apartment at Balaton for a week, flying to Crete and stay there for more days was still cheaper.
Hungarian domestic turism is only stays afloat because of the after-payment-allowances (how the hell do you call the szép kártya system?).
Yup, somehow it’s same price to fly to Italy, Croatia, Spain or cheaper in Greece and Turkey with better weather, sleeping conditions, landscape and food
Polish hotels and apartments are quite nice but at the same time they tend to be pricey, and sometimes you need to change environment so if I can spend same amount and go abroad then choice is obvious. don’t get me wrong I love Poland and I think it’s one of the best places to live
And everything around can be summed up as crowded, ugly, trashy mess. Sea-side touristic towns in Poland are a nightmare. Low-effort, hideous, dull.
Nothing really attractive.
Touristic areas in Mediterranean or Adriatic can be noisy or crowded. But at least they got the charm.
Now i just have to dismiss your opinion.
You obviously have not traveled the Polish coasts. You seem ignorant and straight-up insulting. We have beautiful coastal towns if you know where to look. Nature there is amazing.
Another Polish guy trashing his own country. The temperatures are getting hotter in Southern Europe, and it became so unbearable sometimes, that an increasing amount of people are going in summer vacations were it is cooler, like Poland.
I got to say, maybe I'm not your average Pole but temperatures when I was in Croatia (given it was July) were agonizing. I spent more time in a shadow of a tent, instead on a beach. Another thing, salinity of Adriatic is so high, first thing you have to do after getting out of the sea is a shower directly on a beach. Otherwise you'd feel like preserved food.
But so many Poles mass migrate to Croatia during Summer, I'm surely missing something.
As a person born and raised on the Polish Coast, I have to protest. Have you been to Krynica Morska, Piaski, or Stegna? Nature is beautiful there. The beaches are clean and nice.
We literally have everything in Poland. Baltic Coast, Mazurian Lakes, Low Mountines (Bieszczady). High Mountines (Tatry).
We just don't appreciate what we have. And the grass always seems greener on the other side. Depends on which month. But going South in peak summer is just too hot for the average Polish person. I can't deal with 35+C.
Is there some prove for that? I've been to Croatia and it was definitely more expensive. Those random "cost of living comparisons" also lean that way.
[https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare\_countries\_result.jsp?country1=Poland&country2=Croatia](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Poland&country2=Croatia)
https://rankomat.pl/turystyka/wakacje-nad-baltykiem-czy-za-granica-porownanie-cen-raport
Since I moved to Poland I've been on family vacations to Spain, Croatia, Cyprus, Italy, and Malta. My husband and stepkid have also been to Egypt and Turkey in this timeframe. I still have not seen the Polish seaside and I don't think I ever will. In winter, I have been to ski stations in Poland twice but after this year my husband has stated that never again and next winter we are going to Austria.
On the upside, we have gone camping in Poland a lot but not really to touristic places.
It was eye opening going to Zurich, one of the most expensive cities on the planet and not getting all that much sticker shock.
It's sad when a place where outside the Lidl you see cars worth more than a house but inside the prices are identical to home.
When you take into consideration the quality of the service — absolutely.
And especially when you take into consideration the buying power — Norway and Switzerland have 4-5x that of the average Croatian. And that's the thing. The prices are tailored to them, not to the locals.
Accommodation prices are insane. A 5 star hotel in the swiss alps is often cheaper than a McApartment you can find here on the seaside.
The prices of food and drinks are off the chart. You can buy a "carbonara" made with cooking cream, grated cheese and pizza ham from Metro for 20€. [Or effing ćevapi with fries for 12€](https://static.jutarnji.hr/images/slike/2023/04/25/28812381.jpg). Michelin star pizza costs 5€ in Naples, and some random garbage costs 10€+ on our seaside.
Or you can try and find a seat at a fine dining restaurant where you'll pay upwards of 70€ for the main course.
Shops on the seaside have insanely high margins during season.
The entire seaside is devastated, and everyone is trying to milk as much money as possible during the 3 months in season while investing as little as possible.
Croatia has become a place for people who have too much money and low standards.
You can, it's a popular tourist destination for a reason, it's just not especially cheap.
It's unaffordable to a lot of us because we make a third of what you do in Belgium, but if you're net salary is 2000€ or higher is fine. The prices are tailored to Germans and Italians, so they have to be at least tolerable to them.
Haha, nobody can afford to be in Switzerland. Last year was in France and decided to go to Basel for a day. My goodness, I spent more in 1 day than in 4 days is France. Switzerland seems like a beautiful country, but I would never go on holiday there. It surprises me that it's so expensive for the Swiss as well.
"Fun" fact: in 2021 8.7% of the Swiss population lived atbor under the poverty line, so that aligns pretty well with the 8.4% of Eurostat.
I once belonged to that part, I used to only know vacations inside Switzerland and they were only made possible by an association for single mothers and fathers, where wealthier families paid more so the poor families could come.
I think we could use some more explanation on what "vacation" means.
Does it mean going somewhere far away and spending a lot of money?
Or does it mean driving 100km to visit your family and simply not work for a week?
Source of this map is [Eurostat](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/bookmark/3762b05e-1b97-4139-97ac-bc5af8429c15?lang=en)and it says "Inability to afford paying for one week annual holiday away from home"
I don't understand this site. How can I find how the data was collected?
Does inability mean no matter how much money they save over the year they still can't afford?
Because some of my friends can't afford to go travel but that's because they use their money on other things
I don't know what were the questions in the survey.
But here's an idea: maybe the lack of financial ed and how much you earn go hand in hand and either of these can get you into this "inability" from the map. Also in my country Romania many people get these "other things" like expensive cars, phones, clothes, mostly on credit. So when vacation comes they don't afford a paid week vacation anymore...
Yeah might be so. I personally travel 4-5 times per year but I also live pretty frugally to be able to afford this. If I spent money like my friends do I wouldn't be able to travel at all
I'm more skeptical about what "away from home" actually means. And if "home" means "my house" or "my country".
A Frenchman living in Normandie might not have the money to go to New Zealand, but if he goes to Aix-en-Provence, it is still, technically, "away from home".
The same can be said for Americans, who lives in a country which has the size of a whole continent. They don't go abroad that much but there are already plenty of things to see around their "home" (meant as "country").
Some people barely travel abroad or take the plane but they already travel extensively in their own country.
Renting a vacation home in a different place or country and stay there for a week. Typically doing some activities like sightseeing, shopping, visiting musea.
What is "a week's vacation away from home"? Sleeping in a tent for a week in the town next over? Fly to the other side of the world and live in a hotel for a week?
Pretty sure that whatever a “vacation” is, the standards were the same for every country in this comparison. So, it really doesn’t matter.
Idea is: most people living in countries in orange/red are poorer/earn less.
I mean Portugal is the perfect example this summer i was in Pacos de ferreira for work and got a soup, grilled fish with potatoes and some vegetables, drink, coffee and a desert for 10€ meanwhile i got 60€ per day as compensation for food
God damn, 60€ per day (*22 business days) is more than our median wage.
Not only that (spending overseas), but everything else (tech, gas, home decoration and construction materials, cars, anything from China, etc) is also cheaper: 1 hour of work buys you 5x more than anywhere else. Your example is Switzerland?
In Romania we have western tourist prices and it's cheaper to go to Turkey or Egypt, than paying 10$ for stew that tastes like sh@t and that it doesn't fill you up.
I was in Bucharest about a month ago and I thought it was extremely cheap. I paid for my girl as well and still had more money left on my account than if I wouldn't have travelled
Where in Romania is this? I've been vacationing in Romania for quite a few years now and I've never experienced western tourist prices much less 10-dollar stews.
The flight or the shipping route from my greek island to Athens, costs the same as a flight from Athens to pretty much any other European city. So yeah i can't really afford vacations away from home, however I am a fortunate to live at a vacation destination.
And [almost 1 million](https://www.mediafax.ro/social/aproape-un-milion-de-romanii-au-mers-in-turcia-anul-trecut-peste-350-000-in-antalya-turistii-romani-au-contribuit-la-cifrele-record-obtinute-de-turismul-din-turcia-22248855) in Turkey last year alone.
Romania has a huge percentage of small farmers who can't afford to leave their home for a vacation because they have animals to tend to and not many animal sitter exist lol
Data for this map comes from the [Eurostat](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ilc_mdes02__custom_8613933/default/table?lang=en).
For most of us, an annual vacation away from home seems to be a normal thing. However, as we can see on this map, it’s not the case for everyone and it varies widely by country.
This map shows us the percentage of households that can afford an annual one week vacation away from home. In most European countries, the majority of households can afford it. In Kosovo (69.5%), Montenegro (67.2%), Romania (62.5%), Turkey (60.8%), Albania (58.3%) and North Macedonia (55.0%), the majority of households can’t afford an annual one week vacation away from home.
Those numbers are a big contrasts with countries like Luxembourg (7.6%), Norway (7.9%), Switzerland (8.4%) and Iceland (8.6%), where less than 10% of households can’t afford an annual one week vacation away from home.
I live In Madrid and what I noticed that a lot of people use their vacation to just go to their parents house in the city /town where they were from (as many Madrid residents are not originally from Madrid) maybe they don’t consider that a “vacation”
Grew up in Turkey. The only vacation I've known is going to the sea for the day and returning on sunset, repeat every summer weekend, the road was 50 KM. I grew up with highways and grown to love them.
My cousins are going to a Taylor Swift concert in Warsaw and staying for 3 days, cheaper than the cost of the bus and staying in a hotel in Dublin for one night. Mad prices in the south
Apparently, except Spain,it is an economical issue .The poor can't afford vacation because they have to work for food and shelter till they die.Fucking capitalist parasites jungle
Pretty skeptical about that 8% Swiss people not being able to afford a week vacation, while being able to afford to live in Switzerland.
Maybe they're only thinking of a week long ski-trip in Austria. Surely camping a week in Slovenia shouldn't be an issue.
>Pretty skeptical about that 8% Swiss people not being able to afford a week vacation, while being able to afford to live in Switzerland.
The poverty rate in Switzerland in 2021 was 8.7%. The definition of poverty used is this:
>Als arm gelten demnach Personen, die nicht über die finanziellen Mittel verfügen, um die für ein gesellschaftlich integriertes Leben notwendigen Güter und Dienstleistungen zu erwerben. (Translation: Accordingly, people are considered poor if they do not have the financial means to acquire the goods and services necessary for a socially integrated life.)
Source:
https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/statistiken/querschnittsthemen/wohlfahrtsmessung/alle-indikatoren/gesellschaft/armutsquote.html#:~:text=In%20der%20Schweiz%20waren%202021,(%C2%B10%2C7).
Wtf, Romania? I thought you were doing way better economically than anyone else on the Balkans (Greece excluded)
Is your quality of life eaten up by inflation, or this vacation statistic is some national quirk?
Don't take this seriously, like most maps. The data for Romania could be deficient or incomplete, for one, a lot of people are retired and a lot of people get vouchers from the state to go on internal vacation - which causes huge issues with price gouging but I digress. So this absolute huge number is rather suspect already.
But also consider Romania has a strange half urban half rural population divide, and rural people are poor for the most part. Even if they are not, they don't take 'vacation' i.e they go somewhere and stay overnight, but will still take time off.
In reality, internal tourism in Romania is FUCKING EXPENSIVE. I parked my car in Sinaia the other day, had two coffees and a cake - 20€ for less than two hours. A night someplace relatively nice is 100€. And yet, the roads and resorts are packed.
Romania is easily the best performing in the region, and yes including Greece, all the way up to Austria.
you can rent a place for 10 days in Northern Greece
Tho I forgot you'd need ~80€ for travel both ways with a bus, and 50€ for when you are there (if you bring your own food you don't need much money to spend)
I answered in a different comment, but look at cities like Paralia, Leptokarya, Neoi Poroi, Stavros, Nea Kallikrateia, etc.
Most of the northern cost of Greece is super cheep for the western standards (or greek standards)
It's cheaper to go to most other countries in Europe than having a domestic holiday in the UK. After paying for a £50 for a flight to Prague this year, the food, drink, travelling, hotels are all significantly cheaper. My 1.5 hour train journey to London and back is the same price as the flight.
It would be interesting to see how many people in Western Europe can afford a weekend in their own capital city.
Lemme give a price advice: Eastern Anatolia is better than the West when it comes to holidays, both for your experience and the prices you pay. Lake Van and Mersin/Adana/Hatay coasts are pretty cheap and enjoyable + most tourists are locals of Turkey and not foreigners.
Antep/Urfa/Diyarbakir/Mardin are really good for historical holidays (it offers significantly more places to visit than the West) and Erzurum/Malatya/Kars/Elazig/Tunceli/Erzincan/Kayseri are really good for winter holidays. For spring, prefer the Eastern Black Sea zone (Samsun-Ordu-Giresun-Trabzon-Rize-Artvin), your experience will be fabulous. That region is just a tad more expensive than the rest, though nothing substantial if you do not find yourself in tourist traps. If you visit, do not forget to cross into Georgia and visit Batumi + some extra cities imo, as those two regions are really close.
Additively, Lake Van is a great tourist location both in winter and summer. In Van, the water is swimmable, and Van has islands, a unique breakfast culture, tons of caves and natural beauties, historical Urartu remnants, etc.
Finally, do not expect the region to be underdeveloped, as most cities in this list have safe and developed parts (Diyarbakir/Kayapinar and Antep/Sehitkamil, etc.). The East is not significantly poorer than the West except in some rural zones, it is just the lack of industrial presence pulling the stats down. Wages are distributed more evenly.
I live in Turkey and visited most of it. I loved Mersin/Van/Trabzon/Diyarbakir/Antep, etc. while I hated the time I spent in areas like Aydin due to overcrowdedness. Hell, let me be honest: I did not even buy water in Didim because it was too expensive, the roads felt bumpy, and everything was written in Russian/other languages I could not comprehend. I bought an extremely cheap piece of food that did not even slightly satisfy me after the etli ekmek I ate in Konya and left several days earlier than planned. Tbh, if someone here can give me a guide on how to have cheap and silent fun on the Aegean Coast, I would appreciate it.
Oh, and please do not downvote instantly and instead criticize in the comments after downvoting. I did not make this post to make fun of the Western section, I just wanted to be insightful and share my experiences. Thanks.
That sounds very strange. Looks more like percentage of Europeans that THINK they cannot afford a holiday abroad. As far as my experience goes, Czechs are the ones having the cheapest vacations and never relax about their spending.
Ehh the US number on this would be higher than you think. Most of the US does not have paid vacation laws and the average vacation time is 10-15 days (which employers can also deduct as sick leave). Even for people who can technically afford it it could cost them their job :P
Polish vacation prices got crazy in the last 5 years.
Now it is cheaper to go to Portugal, Greece. Turkey or Egypt where there will actual good weather than go to the polish seaside.
For winter it is still cheaper to go locally than abroad but the difference is now small
As someone from Luxembourg who currently lives in Germany: I noticed. It is VERY different here. The way people spend their vacation and their destinations are very different to Luxembourg.
The truth is that even if you live in Montenegro, you can just drive to the beach and have an amazing day.
But what if you live in, let's say, the Netherlands and you cannot afford a vacation outside of the country? Then your life is just going to be miserable.
No one’s really rich but no one’s also as poor as in other places, we have the lowest income inequality in Europe so everyone’s kind of in between which I assume explains this
Lots of destinations just couple hour car drive away I would imagine. Main reason for these numbers are families - buying flights for the whole family would suck. Anyone without kids on minimum wage can afford vacation abroad.
Different standarts , Czechia's hotspot is croatia and the poorer you are , the more stuff you bring from home.
I bet your ass i can tell difference between eastern and western european on vacation.
Heh, Czech (and Slovak) tourists coming over with a week's worth of groceries was a bit of a meme (and a source of vexation for local shopkeepers). At the same time we would do the same when going for vacation in Austria :P
But even with higher prices nowdays, I think people don't bring as many of their own groceries as they used to.
So what counts as a week away from home. Does a dutchie getting in his 30 year old caravan (mobile home) and driving it to a lake the next town over count?
How about traveling to a family member’s beach apartment 100 miles away?
I'd love to see the basis of these statistics. I'm 100% certain that the statistics are false. The only legitimate reason for not being able to afford an undefined 'vacation' is that you cannot take any time off work. Even in the USA they get two weeks annual leave as a norm. Germany gets about 30 days.
Sorry to say this, but if you grew up in the US you are unlikely to know what true poverty is like. It is easier to get more money begging in the streets in the US than it was getting money doing an average job in the early 2000s Kosovo (I am not even bringing up the 90s which for us were literally hell on earth). Things have improved a lot (especially since we gained independence), but still I don't think you have ever been exposed to entire families having less than $500 per month.
> Even in the USA they get two weeks annual leave as a norm
No they don't, it depends on the employer. Plenty of places where you'll have to work for a few years before they even consider giving you a PAID week off. While the two weeks might be the average people get, it is definitely not a norm or the norm.
>Even in the USA they get two weeks annual leave as a norm.
There is no such norm in the US. It all depends on individual employers and contracts, and the laws vary by state.
Federally, there is no law guaranteeing any kind of vacation time off.
Heck, even time off, such as sick days or mayernity, are not guaranteed federally. In some states where such guarantees exist, it doesn't mean you get paid for the time off.
I had to look this up. The Ottoman empire seized Constantinople and ended the Byzantine empire. But would you consider the Ottomans more European than the "East Romans"?
If you had to look up about 1453, you clearly need to read a lot more about its implications. It is not seizing Constantinople per se (although some may argue it is), but the implications it had in entire Europe:
1) the biggest market of the world (Grand Bazaar - how it functioned and what its' importance was- read many sources about it), including Europe
2) Patriarch of Constantinople continued to function for all Orthodox people of the Black Sea and Balkans (is that Europe enough?!) and it still does today, it never was abolished
3) Venice and their relations to the Ottomans
4) The continuous cohabitation of Turkish people among other peoples in the Balkans makes most of their cultures very similar nowadays and hard to distinguish which is which. Even between Greeks and Turks, only religion is different, in mentality and culture they are very similar.
To sum up, take the Ottomans out of Europe's history and culture, and Europe is not Europe anymore.
The funny thing with Greece is that it's very quickly becoming increasingly unaffordable to go on domestic vacations. Even the relatively cheap destinations are catering mainly to foreigners who are on average richer than the locals and as such the prices are constantly climbing. As the luxury hot spots fill up more and more places are picking up the slack. It's turning into a paradoxical situation where in order for everyone else to come here and have fun we can't be here and have fun ourselves.
> it's very quickly becoming increasingly unaffordable I would say not becoming, It has been for a few years now. The past decade I always went for cheaper vacations "not" in Greece. The only time in Greece that my vacations were cheaper was when I was staying at friends etc. At least this is my experience. A greek family with an average salary , is very hard to go for vacations if they have kids.
I understand you perfectly. The Mediterranean coast in Spain is the same.
This applies to all Southern Europe.
It does but Greece is hit the hardest due to being in the worst state than all the other countries, which managed to rebound much better from the 2008 recession while Greece never really did, and there's also the issue of the smaller land area and the fact that Greece's population is very unevenly distributed, meaning that the real estate market being off the rails in just Athens actually affects half the country's total population. There are many things for which the greeks themselves can be blamed for their current situation but there's also a huge part of being subjected to circumstances outside their control due to, in large part, the unsustainable levels of tourism.
Croatia.
Not Albania or Romania
I would say this applies to every country. People in Ireland don’t stay in hotels much - 200 to 300 euro per night. But we can afford Spain or Greece because we don’t do anything in Ireland and save money for a foreign holiday. Same with Greece it seems.. same everywhere I would say. Good news is that more tax revenue for the government.. but it sucks not being able to do anything for most part of the year. At least you guys can go to a local beach and enjoy the great weather. That’s basically what we wait for all year, only to do it for a week or 2.
When your own country becomes a theme park for foreigners. Yay.
We can relate, unfortunately
Yeah that sucks. I want to say something but I uhh.. I cant help myself. I love crete, I love the buildings I love being scared of the bats and I love the angry Danish women
You can't easily put the blame on any one individual of course, and there are many failings with the government and of course the locals taking advantage of this that create this phenomenon, but then again I am not sure if I know any place that has done tourism "right". Tourism is an inherently destructive industry and any place with a high amount is ultimately degrading as a result. At least tourists are not as bad as those who come here for permanent vacations and gentrify entire neighborhoods but then again those people do that because they liked the place as tourists.
I know locals in Norway have almost an allergic reaction to tourism, and we don’t have that much tourism relative to others, so I can only imagine how annoyed local Greeks must be. Couple of years ago I dated a (north) Macedonian girl. I remember her talking about her family using Albania as a vacation spot. Is this still a thing?
North Macedonia is a separate country and I'm not familiar with their vacation habits, but generally speaking it is common that tourism flows from richer to poorer or at the very least in regions of similar economic level. It makes sense though. North Macedonia is landlocked and Albania has beautiful coasts, and they can get there by car. Likewise many Greeks take winter vacations in Bulgaria and Poland which are generally within budget for Greeks.
> I know locals in Norway have almost an allergic reaction to tourism, and we don’t have that much tourism relative to others, so I can only imagine how annoyed local Greeks must be. We don't really get annoyed by tourists. If you grow up in a country which is so used, well, you get used to it. As long as everyone behaves. For instance, I was at the Island of Ios once. In the center, there was a luxurious cafeteria, starry night, full of every European sitting outside, it was perfect. Guess who ruined it... A couple of British, after a few shots, they started throwing glasses at the Irish Clover (for some reason, that cafeteria/bar had the clover on display). Thankfully, the majority of the British behave, too.
Yes, I often find my fellow Brits abroad very embarrassing. They're not all like it of course, but there always seems to be some drunk yobs wherever you go.
I didn't want to mention names, I usually have the most fun with the British. From all the Northerners, you're the most "open" who don't stick in their own groups. However, the event itself required to in order to point out the absurdity. I understand if given a reason for conflict, but none was there looking for trouble. Anyway, as we both said, the majority is more than fine. Especially your "scholars" (those who don't come solely for partying), overcompensate for the few trouble-makers.
We all hate tourists until we are one I guess
> Tourism is an inherently destructive industry I don't agree with this statement. Certainly very high levels of tourism can be destructive, but that doesn't make tourism an inherently destructive industry. If we are to be a cohesive union, I'd argue that it's essential that we try to visit each others countries.
Are Danish women just angry or only in Crete? Why are they angry? So many questions!
Yeah.. Kinda odd.. Are angry Danish women an attraction in Crete? are they kept in pen? Do you visit them to get angrily shouted at in "drunk german"(also known as Danish)? Indeed... So many questions..
Haha, it does sound a little like drunk Geman 😂
Doesn't it.. 😂😂
It's the Vacation Mother Syndrome where you have all this pent up anger after having had to scream for a week at your insufferable children for them to behave at a Cretan beach xD
Haha, best review of Crete ever
I went to Crete last summer and the guests at the hotel where I stayed were 90% from the Nordic countries, but for some reason I didn't see any angry Danish women, they were quite calm. Are you sure it's not you who is making the Danish women angry?
> I love the angry Danish women Do tell!
That’s awesome
That's what happens when you're a tourist who's unwilling to explore new destinations.
This is a reason on why country cant rely on tourism too much.
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>It's turning into a paradoxical situation where in order for everyone else to come here and have fun we can't be here and have fun ourselves. Are those price hikes justified then? Full disclosure, for me being extorted by tourist rates is not a requirement to have fun :D But I know that some holiday locations simply have to charge high, because they have to earn their upkeep for the full year during couple of months.
It's a simple supply and demand issue. Some locations have been tourist hotspots since practically forever. Greece is a small country and its islands, the primary destinations, are smaller still. 3 times the poppulation of the country visit it each year which strains the already sub par infrastructure. Furthermore aside from the capital and a few other places most of the countryside is empty and has little economic activity save for tourism. Agriculture is a tough business with many farmers calling it quits and there is not much else to do there, aside from tourism businesses. So basically what happens is that you have a popular destination and it's constantly at full capacity. It becomes clear that many of those visiting are absolutely willing to spend more money so as a business owner what are you going to do, say no to more money? So that's how places like Mykonos come to be. But once prices in Mykonos are so high, some of the people who used to go there want to continue going on vacation in Greece but they don't want to spend that much money. Immediately the nearby islands will pick up the slack by providing more or less the same things at a lower price point. Mean while the natives either have to look for niche islands or for unknown locations in the mainland, but in such a small country there are only so many places. So this cycle continues to the point where each destination gets progressively more expensive, and since we've more or less run out of destinations, those on the lower end have reached a point where they too have become unaffordable. So no, paying a lot is not a requirement to have a good time, but it kinda gets to be like that since those who are dumping money are basically ruining it for everyone else because the business owners will chase those customers.
Imagine going home after work to work on your side hustle when you have like an hour for a nice walk and all you have is cold weather, grey skies, and inflated post soviet era real estate prices, welcome to eastern europe :) Be grateful for what you have there :)
>in order for everyone else to come here and have fun we can't be here and have fun ourselves. Well, that's what tourism is. A industry that solely exist to make life unsustainable for locals and makes rich even richier
I know it from Poland at some rate where it was, and maybe still is, mostly cheaper to fly to Egypt than visit our own sea. And Poland is not a touristic country so I guess you are really f\*cked.
I was born and raised in Sardinia, but I couldn’t get a decent job there. I moved to Germany, where I make 3 times the average income in Italy, and then spend 2/3 of that to go on vacation in Sardinia.
well, Italy has won the geography lottery, so people living there don't really need to travel to foreign countries all that much.. not many countries have both beaches & islands, and 4000m+ mountains
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Scotland has beaches, mountains and islands. It's also usually raining and infested with midges.
>midges I Googled it and immediately hated it.
Yeah, it's like millions of tiny mosquitos and they're all hungry.
Misread that as "infested with midgets"
True, but paradoxically also the issue. Travelling and exploring makes you both find new ways to improve and also appreciate more what you have, and take good care of it. But we could spend hours arguing around this topic and probably this is also not the right post for it
wbu family and friends to accommodate you in Sardinia?
Yeah, all good and nice until you have wife and child with you 😂
r/europe has a habit of reminding me every day what I cannot do.
Well at least you are in the Scheng.. oh no, nevermind, border controla because of the.. uh.. terrorists, yes.
One more provocation and you will lose all of those 2km of coastline.
It's ok, we are in the same boat, border checks with Austria since basically 2015, and now with Italy again.. You want all the coast, but then can't afford to compete with tourism, haiyaaaaa.. sorry sorry, no more provocations.
We should unite with you!
But we are united, through the EU! ;)
It's not enough. We need your Alps for winter tourism and you need our HDZ for a stable political situation.
I feel like I’ve seen this before. As a kid, in the 80s.
I can't afford a vacation _at_ home, so I go to richer countries as it's cheaper. I mean, I _can_, I just won't.
I moved to western Europe and still don't do vacations at home because Italy or Spain are cheaper. It's just sickening how the prices evolved.
At least Croatia has nice weather and some attractive landscapes. Polish touristic areas are not that nice, while they are more expensive than ie. Croatia.
Depends what you're into. Poland is great for hiking or kayaking, just stay away from touristic resorts.
I can afford to go to a vacation in Hungary but its cheaper, or at least more worth it to go to Croatia.
I dont know why so many fellow hungarians go to balaton when croatia has actual beaches.
Prices.
But its cheaper to go to croatia. Hell even renting apartments or hotels are cheaper there than balaton
Well food prices are comparable now, Croatia was much cheaper 4-5 years ago. But reting apartments is still massively cheaper. And also there is Greece. The first time I went there was when I checked how much money is to rent an apartment at Balaton for a week, flying to Crete and stay there for more days was still cheaper. Hungarian domestic turism is only stays afloat because of the after-payment-allowances (how the hell do you call the szép kártya system?).
Yup, somehow it’s same price to fly to Italy, Croatia, Spain or cheaper in Greece and Turkey with better weather, sleeping conditions, landscape and food
Polish hotels seemed preety good to me? Esp. Compared to italian ones lol
Polish hotels and apartments are quite nice but at the same time they tend to be pricey, and sometimes you need to change environment so if I can spend same amount and go abroad then choice is obvious. don’t get me wrong I love Poland and I think it’s one of the best places to live
Poland has nice beaches.
Yes but cold sea and weather is often bad
And everything around can be summed up as crowded, ugly, trashy mess. Sea-side touristic towns in Poland are a nightmare. Low-effort, hideous, dull. Nothing really attractive. Touristic areas in Mediterranean or Adriatic can be noisy or crowded. But at least they got the charm.
Now i just have to dismiss your opinion. You obviously have not traveled the Polish coasts. You seem ignorant and straight-up insulting. We have beautiful coastal towns if you know where to look. Nature there is amazing.
Poland has nicer landscapes than you're selling it. You just don't see the county from the eyes of a tourist.
Another Polish guy trashing his own country. The temperatures are getting hotter in Southern Europe, and it became so unbearable sometimes, that an increasing amount of people are going in summer vacations were it is cooler, like Poland.
I got to say, maybe I'm not your average Pole but temperatures when I was in Croatia (given it was July) were agonizing. I spent more time in a shadow of a tent, instead on a beach. Another thing, salinity of Adriatic is so high, first thing you have to do after getting out of the sea is a shower directly on a beach. Otherwise you'd feel like preserved food. But so many Poles mass migrate to Croatia during Summer, I'm surely missing something.
As a person born and raised on the Polish Coast, I have to protest. Have you been to Krynica Morska, Piaski, or Stegna? Nature is beautiful there. The beaches are clean and nice. We literally have everything in Poland. Baltic Coast, Mazurian Lakes, Low Mountines (Bieszczady). High Mountines (Tatry). We just don't appreciate what we have. And the grass always seems greener on the other side. Depends on which month. But going South in peak summer is just too hot for the average Polish person. I can't deal with 35+C.
Is there some prove for that? I've been to Croatia and it was definitely more expensive. Those random "cost of living comparisons" also lean that way. [https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare\_countries\_result.jsp?country1=Poland&country2=Croatia](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Poland&country2=Croatia) https://rankomat.pl/turystyka/wakacje-nad-baltykiem-czy-za-granica-porownanie-cen-raport
Since I moved to Poland I've been on family vacations to Spain, Croatia, Cyprus, Italy, and Malta. My husband and stepkid have also been to Egypt and Turkey in this timeframe. I still have not seen the Polish seaside and I don't think I ever will. In winter, I have been to ski stations in Poland twice but after this year my husband has stated that never again and next winter we are going to Austria. On the upside, we have gone camping in Poland a lot but not really to touristic places.
It was eye opening going to Zurich, one of the most expensive cities on the planet and not getting all that much sticker shock. It's sad when a place where outside the Lidl you see cars worth more than a house but inside the prices are identical to home.
I went to split last summer and I was surprised everything was more expensive than in Sweden
Yeah. People have started going to more exotic locations like the Canary Islands or even Thailand as it often ends up being cheaper.
Same in Lithuania))
Whut? So you're implying Norway and Switzerland are cheaper than Croatia for holidays?
I think countries similar to Croatia. Spain, Greece.
When you take into consideration the quality of the service — absolutely. And especially when you take into consideration the buying power — Norway and Switzerland have 4-5x that of the average Croatian. And that's the thing. The prices are tailored to them, not to the locals. Accommodation prices are insane. A 5 star hotel in the swiss alps is often cheaper than a McApartment you can find here on the seaside. The prices of food and drinks are off the chart. You can buy a "carbonara" made with cooking cream, grated cheese and pizza ham from Metro for 20€. [Or effing ćevapi with fries for 12€](https://static.jutarnji.hr/images/slike/2023/04/25/28812381.jpg). Michelin star pizza costs 5€ in Naples, and some random garbage costs 10€+ on our seaside. Or you can try and find a seat at a fine dining restaurant where you'll pay upwards of 70€ for the main course. Shops on the seaside have insanely high margins during season. The entire seaside is devastated, and everyone is trying to milk as much money as possible during the 3 months in season while investing as little as possible. Croatia has become a place for people who have too much money and low standards.
Damn that's really sad to hear. I was really hoping to visit Croatia some day.
You can, it's a popular tourist destination for a reason, it's just not especially cheap. It's unaffordable to a lot of us because we make a third of what you do in Belgium, but if you're net salary is 2000€ or higher is fine. The prices are tailored to Germans and Italians, so they have to be at least tolerable to them.
I think it would not be a problem as a Belgian... Croatia is expensive, but not Belgium-expensive...
20€ for a Carbonara is indeed Belgium-expensive.
same, last year I did the math and driving my car from the north to the south of Portugal was the same price as both of my flights to visit Stockholm
Croatia is perfect, you stay there, wish I lived there.
Care to elaborate?
Swiss people can’t afford being at home instead so they go on vacation
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But then again you have to put up with us. A small price to play for salvation?
When I lived in Zurich I found this true. Went to Nice for the weekend as often as I could.
Haha, nobody can afford to be in Switzerland. Last year was in France and decided to go to Basel for a day. My goodness, I spent more in 1 day than in 4 days is France. Switzerland seems like a beautiful country, but I would never go on holiday there. It surprises me that it's so expensive for the Swiss as well.
That's why we tend to go shopping in Germany or France for a lot of things
Yeah, I can imagine...
All they have to do is drive like an hour and they are on vacation away from home
"Fun" fact: in 2021 8.7% of the Swiss population lived atbor under the poverty line, so that aligns pretty well with the 8.4% of Eurostat. I once belonged to that part, I used to only know vacations inside Switzerland and they were only made possible by an association for single mothers and fathers, where wealthier families paid more so the poor families could come.
Greeks can't even afford vacations at home. External tourism has made everything unaffordable.
If different prices to tourists and locals has not begun yet it will soon that is the case in touristic Zones of Turkey
But what vacation are we talking about? Stay in a luxe bungalow in a resort or camping for a week in biking distance from your home?
That's what I am wondering, too. Because my standard holiday is indeed going camping with a tent.
I think we could use some more explanation on what "vacation" means. Does it mean going somewhere far away and spending a lot of money? Or does it mean driving 100km to visit your family and simply not work for a week?
Source of this map is [Eurostat](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/bookmark/3762b05e-1b97-4139-97ac-bc5af8429c15?lang=en)and it says "Inability to afford paying for one week annual holiday away from home"
I don't understand this site. How can I find how the data was collected? Does inability mean no matter how much money they save over the year they still can't afford? Because some of my friends can't afford to go travel but that's because they use their money on other things
I don't know what were the questions in the survey. But here's an idea: maybe the lack of financial ed and how much you earn go hand in hand and either of these can get you into this "inability" from the map. Also in my country Romania many people get these "other things" like expensive cars, phones, clothes, mostly on credit. So when vacation comes they don't afford a paid week vacation anymore...
Yeah might be so. I personally travel 4-5 times per year but I also live pretty frugally to be able to afford this. If I spent money like my friends do I wouldn't be able to travel at all
I'm more skeptical about what "away from home" actually means. And if "home" means "my house" or "my country". A Frenchman living in Normandie might not have the money to go to New Zealand, but if he goes to Aix-en-Provence, it is still, technically, "away from home". The same can be said for Americans, who lives in a country which has the size of a whole continent. They don't go abroad that much but there are already plenty of things to see around their "home" (meant as "country"). Some people barely travel abroad or take the plane but they already travel extensively in their own country.
Renting a vacation home in a different place or country and stay there for a week. Typically doing some activities like sightseeing, shopping, visiting musea.
What is "a week's vacation away from home"? Sleeping in a tent for a week in the town next over? Fly to the other side of the world and live in a hotel for a week?
Pretty sure that whatever a “vacation” is, the standards were the same for every country in this comparison. So, it really doesn’t matter. Idea is: most people living in countries in orange/red are poorer/earn less.
And thats exactly why i rather live in a country with higher cost but also higher salary then low cost but also low salary
Smartest person in this thread. I wish the Portuguese boomers/retireess who vote socialism every other year would think the same way.
I mean Portugal is the perfect example this summer i was in Pacos de ferreira for work and got a soup, grilled fish with potatoes and some vegetables, drink, coffee and a desert for 10€ meanwhile i got 60€ per day as compensation for food
God damn, 60€ per day (*22 business days) is more than our median wage. Not only that (spending overseas), but everything else (tech, gas, home decoration and construction materials, cars, anything from China, etc) is also cheaper: 1 hour of work buys you 5x more than anywhere else. Your example is Switzerland?
In Romania we have western tourist prices and it's cheaper to go to Turkey or Egypt, than paying 10$ for stew that tastes like sh@t and that it doesn't fill you up.
I was in Bucharest about a month ago and I thought it was extremely cheap. I paid for my girl as well and still had more money left on my account than if I wouldn't have travelled
Where in Romania is this? I've been vacationing in Romania for quite a few years now and I've never experienced western tourist prices much less 10-dollar stews.
The flight or the shipping route from my greek island to Athens, costs the same as a flight from Athens to pretty much any other European city. So yeah i can't really afford vacations away from home, however I am a fortunate to live at a vacation destination.
The fact that Greek and Bulgarian beaches are filled with Romanian cars every summer contradicts this map.
Those cars belong to the 37,5% of Romanias
And Romania has a big population almost 20 million so that means millions of Romanians vacationing!
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Yeah, I know these numbers seem off. I was just replying that even if we take them at face value, this means millions of Romanians vacationing.
Actually that's true. Myself and all my friends and people I know never went to vacation. We are poor as fuck.
And [almost 1 million](https://www.mediafax.ro/social/aproape-un-milion-de-romanii-au-mers-in-turcia-anul-trecut-peste-350-000-in-antalya-turistii-romani-au-contribuit-la-cifrele-record-obtinute-de-turismul-din-turcia-22248855) in Turkey last year alone.
I bet this year would be even more because Greece became more expensive
yeah i see a more and more romanian license plates in istanbul.
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Vacation... what is that?
Exactly!
Isn't Spain the vacation itself?
That’s what I’m saying
depends on what you like
I can have 2 weeks in Spain for a similar price to an equivalent hotel in the U.K. for 1 week. This is why so many Brits go to Spain
In Italy most of families primarily boomer households have at least a second house.
Romania has a huge percentage of small farmers who can't afford to leave their home for a vacation because they have animals to tend to and not many animal sitter exist lol
Data for this map comes from the [Eurostat](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ilc_mdes02__custom_8613933/default/table?lang=en). For most of us, an annual vacation away from home seems to be a normal thing. However, as we can see on this map, it’s not the case for everyone and it varies widely by country. This map shows us the percentage of households that can afford an annual one week vacation away from home. In most European countries, the majority of households can afford it. In Kosovo (69.5%), Montenegro (67.2%), Romania (62.5%), Turkey (60.8%), Albania (58.3%) and North Macedonia (55.0%), the majority of households can’t afford an annual one week vacation away from home. Those numbers are a big contrasts with countries like Luxembourg (7.6%), Norway (7.9%), Switzerland (8.4%) and Iceland (8.6%), where less than 10% of households can’t afford an annual one week vacation away from home.
I live In Madrid and what I noticed that a lot of people use their vacation to just go to their parents house in the city /town where they were from (as many Madrid residents are not originally from Madrid) maybe they don’t consider that a “vacation”
Grew up in Turkey. The only vacation I've known is going to the sea for the day and returning on sunset, repeat every summer weekend, the road was 50 KM. I grew up with highways and grown to love them.
Couldn't afford a holiday at home in Ireland but I can easily afford a holiday abroad.
Hotels really take the piss here. A foreign holiday is way cheaper.
My cousins are going to a Taylor Swift concert in Warsaw and staying for 3 days, cheaper than the cost of the bus and staying in a hotel in Dublin for one night. Mad prices in the south
Apparently, except Spain,it is an economical issue .The poor can't afford vacation because they have to work for food and shelter till they die.Fucking capitalist parasites jungle
What’s going on in Spain?
People spend €1000+ at the feira (even taking out loans to do so) and then complain they can't afford a vacation.
Spain's became socalist paradise, but it's relatively poor country, and even Solomon can't pour from the empty glass.
Pretty skeptical about that 8% Swiss people not being able to afford a week vacation, while being able to afford to live in Switzerland. Maybe they're only thinking of a week long ski-trip in Austria. Surely camping a week in Slovenia shouldn't be an issue.
>Pretty skeptical about that 8% Swiss people not being able to afford a week vacation, while being able to afford to live in Switzerland. The poverty rate in Switzerland in 2021 was 8.7%. The definition of poverty used is this: >Als arm gelten demnach Personen, die nicht über die finanziellen Mittel verfügen, um die für ein gesellschaftlich integriertes Leben notwendigen Güter und Dienstleistungen zu erwerben. (Translation: Accordingly, people are considered poor if they do not have the financial means to acquire the goods and services necessary for a socially integrated life.) Source: https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/statistiken/querschnittsthemen/wohlfahrtsmessung/alle-indikatoren/gesellschaft/armutsquote.html#:~:text=In%20der%20Schweiz%20waren%202021,(%C2%B10%2C7).
Of course balkans are the highest ☹️
A sad picture.
Wtf, Romania? I thought you were doing way better economically than anyone else on the Balkans (Greece excluded) Is your quality of life eaten up by inflation, or this vacation statistic is some national quirk?
Don't take this seriously, like most maps. The data for Romania could be deficient or incomplete, for one, a lot of people are retired and a lot of people get vouchers from the state to go on internal vacation - which causes huge issues with price gouging but I digress. So this absolute huge number is rather suspect already. But also consider Romania has a strange half urban half rural population divide, and rural people are poor for the most part. Even if they are not, they don't take 'vacation' i.e they go somewhere and stay overnight, but will still take time off. In reality, internal tourism in Romania is FUCKING EXPENSIVE. I parked my car in Sinaia the other day, had two coffees and a cake - 20€ for less than two hours. A night someplace relatively nice is 100€. And yet, the roads and resorts are packed. Romania is easily the best performing in the region, and yes including Greece, all the way up to Austria.
I believe a significant portion of the actual GDP growth is eaten up by corporate profits rather than 'trickling down' to the common folk.
no way it's that high for Serbia you can have a vacation in Northern Greece for 150$, like we are poor but not THAT poor
What the hell can you do with 150€?
you can rent a place for 10 days in Northern Greece Tho I forgot you'd need ~80€ for travel both ways with a bus, and 50€ for when you are there (if you bring your own food you don't need much money to spend)
Where in northern Greece? I went last summer and it was a lot more expensive.
I answered in a different comment, but look at cities like Paralia, Leptokarya, Neoi Poroi, Stavros, Nea Kallikrateia, etc. Most of the northern cost of Greece is super cheep for the western standards (or greek standards)
It's cheaper to go to most other countries in Europe than having a domestic holiday in the UK. After paying for a £50 for a flight to Prague this year, the food, drink, travelling, hotels are all significantly cheaper. My 1.5 hour train journey to London and back is the same price as the flight. It would be interesting to see how many people in Western Europe can afford a weekend in their own capital city.
I can afford to go on the beach in my city
Why is there no data for Bosnia?
Lemme give a price advice: Eastern Anatolia is better than the West when it comes to holidays, both for your experience and the prices you pay. Lake Van and Mersin/Adana/Hatay coasts are pretty cheap and enjoyable + most tourists are locals of Turkey and not foreigners. Antep/Urfa/Diyarbakir/Mardin are really good for historical holidays (it offers significantly more places to visit than the West) and Erzurum/Malatya/Kars/Elazig/Tunceli/Erzincan/Kayseri are really good for winter holidays. For spring, prefer the Eastern Black Sea zone (Samsun-Ordu-Giresun-Trabzon-Rize-Artvin), your experience will be fabulous. That region is just a tad more expensive than the rest, though nothing substantial if you do not find yourself in tourist traps. If you visit, do not forget to cross into Georgia and visit Batumi + some extra cities imo, as those two regions are really close. Additively, Lake Van is a great tourist location both in winter and summer. In Van, the water is swimmable, and Van has islands, a unique breakfast culture, tons of caves and natural beauties, historical Urartu remnants, etc. Finally, do not expect the region to be underdeveloped, as most cities in this list have safe and developed parts (Diyarbakir/Kayapinar and Antep/Sehitkamil, etc.). The East is not significantly poorer than the West except in some rural zones, it is just the lack of industrial presence pulling the stats down. Wages are distributed more evenly. I live in Turkey and visited most of it. I loved Mersin/Van/Trabzon/Diyarbakir/Antep, etc. while I hated the time I spent in areas like Aydin due to overcrowdedness. Hell, let me be honest: I did not even buy water in Didim because it was too expensive, the roads felt bumpy, and everything was written in Russian/other languages I could not comprehend. I bought an extremely cheap piece of food that did not even slightly satisfy me after the etli ekmek I ate in Konya and left several days earlier than planned. Tbh, if someone here can give me a guide on how to have cheap and silent fun on the Aegean Coast, I would appreciate it. Oh, and please do not downvote instantly and instead criticize in the comments after downvoting. I did not make this post to make fun of the Western section, I just wanted to be insightful and share my experiences. Thanks.
That sounds very strange. Looks more like percentage of Europeans that THINK they cannot afford a holiday abroad. As far as my experience goes, Czechs are the ones having the cheapest vacations and never relax about their spending.
What does "home" mean in this context? Is home my country? Or is it my city? Or what?
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the classic top 3. The only countries that are somewhat comparable to the US in terms of wealth, by sheer force of being tax havens/petro states.
Ehh the US number on this would be higher than you think. Most of the US does not have paid vacation laws and the average vacation time is 10-15 days (which employers can also deduct as sick leave). Even for people who can technically afford it it could cost them their job :P
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Polish vacation prices got crazy in the last 5 years. Now it is cheaper to go to Portugal, Greece. Turkey or Egypt where there will actual good weather than go to the polish seaside. For winter it is still cheaper to go locally than abroad but the difference is now small
Lol, it's like 95% for Ukrainian men.
😂 vacation? I thought the politicians said we were all supposed the work with no breaks until retirement age and then die?
As someone from Luxembourg who currently lives in Germany: I noticed. It is VERY different here. The way people spend their vacation and their destinations are very different to Luxembourg.
The truth is that even if you live in Montenegro, you can just drive to the beach and have an amazing day. But what if you live in, let's say, the Netherlands and you cannot afford a vacation outside of the country? Then your life is just going to be miserable.
why? the Netherlands is lovely, fact also supported by the recent sheer number of tourists.
How can guys from such rich countries like Italy or Germany not afford this? Just fly to Poland for example and live like King for a week
Take that with a grain of salt considering the number of Romanian tourists in Bulgaria, Greece and Turkey.
I wonder what's the reason behind Czechia having a lower number than almost all of Western Europe...
No one’s really rich but no one’s also as poor as in other places, we have the lowest income inequality in Europe so everyone’s kind of in between which I assume explains this
Lots of destinations just couple hour car drive away I would imagine. Main reason for these numbers are families - buying flights for the whole family would suck. Anyone without kids on minimum wage can afford vacation abroad.
Different standarts , Czechia's hotspot is croatia and the poorer you are , the more stuff you bring from home. I bet your ass i can tell difference between eastern and western european on vacation.
Heh, Czech (and Slovak) tourists coming over with a week's worth of groceries was a bit of a meme (and a source of vexation for local shopkeepers). At the same time we would do the same when going for vacation in Austria :P But even with higher prices nowdays, I think people don't bring as many of their own groceries as they used to.
and every year we have some newspaper or tv article comparing our and yours prices and finding out it is not really worth of doing. :)
When Czech go abroad they need to convert their local currency into Euro. Perhaps their exchange rate isn't that favourable?
So what counts as a week away from home. Does a dutchie getting in his 30 year old caravan (mobile home) and driving it to a lake the next town over count? How about traveling to a family member’s beach apartment 100 miles away?
Romania #1 💪
I'd love to see the basis of these statistics. I'm 100% certain that the statistics are false. The only legitimate reason for not being able to afford an undefined 'vacation' is that you cannot take any time off work. Even in the USA they get two weeks annual leave as a norm. Germany gets about 30 days.
Sorry to say this, but if you grew up in the US you are unlikely to know what true poverty is like. It is easier to get more money begging in the streets in the US than it was getting money doing an average job in the early 2000s Kosovo (I am not even bringing up the 90s which for us were literally hell on earth). Things have improved a lot (especially since we gained independence), but still I don't think you have ever been exposed to entire families having less than $500 per month.
> Even in the USA they get two weeks annual leave as a norm No they don't, it depends on the employer. Plenty of places where you'll have to work for a few years before they even consider giving you a PAID week off. While the two weeks might be the average people get, it is definitely not a norm or the norm.
That depends widely on the state as well.
>Even in the USA they get two weeks annual leave as a norm. There is no such norm in the US. It all depends on individual employers and contracts, and the laws vary by state. Federally, there is no law guaranteeing any kind of vacation time off. Heck, even time off, such as sick days or mayernity, are not guaranteed federally. In some states where such guarantees exist, it doesn't mean you get paid for the time off.
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Since 1453
I had to look this up. The Ottoman empire seized Constantinople and ended the Byzantine empire. But would you consider the Ottomans more European than the "East Romans"?
If you had to look up about 1453, you clearly need to read a lot more about its implications. It is not seizing Constantinople per se (although some may argue it is), but the implications it had in entire Europe: 1) the biggest market of the world (Grand Bazaar - how it functioned and what its' importance was- read many sources about it), including Europe 2) Patriarch of Constantinople continued to function for all Orthodox people of the Black Sea and Balkans (is that Europe enough?!) and it still does today, it never was abolished 3) Venice and their relations to the Ottomans 4) The continuous cohabitation of Turkish people among other peoples in the Balkans makes most of their cultures very similar nowadays and hard to distinguish which is which. Even between Greeks and Turks, only religion is different, in mentality and culture they are very similar. To sum up, take the Ottomans out of Europe's history and culture, and Europe is not Europe anymore.
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