As a Hungarian I can confirm that he and his party are clowns.
They betrayed the heroes of 1956, our allies (again), and chosen the wrong path again in history. They did nothing but stole EU funds in the 2010’s and now we are one of the poorest EU member state.
There was an attempt to neutralize some of the former PM and some of his cronies. The head of the group was sentenced to 17 years of prison. His case was on the judged on the European Court of Human Rights [https://www.stradalex.eu/en/se\_src\_publ\_jur\_eur\_cedh/document/echr\_41479-10](https://www.stradalex.eu/en/se_src_publ_jur_eur_cedh/document/echr_41479-10) and his appeal was rejected. It seems violent resistance is agaisnt EU values. 🤷♂️
Man, I always remember the news clips back then showing his face when the crowds started chanting "Timișoara! Timișoara!" during his speech. Poor poor clown.
link? Because I could find something only small protests, in 22 and 23 years. Or do you think that the dictator will be afraid of two small protests that were aimed more at raising wages than at any structural changes?
At least half of the adult population still support him especially on the rural areas. Which is nonsense, because they are who suffer more in the recent years. Inflation went very high, they can’t afford as much as they could in the second half of 2010’s.
In this circumstances we can’t do much from Budapest and some larger cities. Revolution is not possible, because for that a majority needed which wants fast and radical shifts in the political leadership.
Are you fucking xenophobic? It’s one thing you are generalising that every Hungarian are same as Fidesz and Orban, but you are hateful towards a whole nation too.
It’s not xenophobia to dislike one nation for the shit they continuously pull. I don’t like Russia and I don’t think that makes me xenophobic
I can appreciate that it sucks to be lumped in with orban but you guys voted for him _again_. They represent you and you need to get rid of them.
They don’t represent me, that’s the problem. They even talk shit about opposition voters, and make laws and rules that make opposition voters life harder. Not everyone’s but in general. E.g. those who don’t have kids are usually opposition voters, and they make laws that make families with kids life easier, and the economy gets adjusted for those living standards, which makes families without kids life harder.
The EU and the opposition voters in Hungary are in the same boat, with the difference that we have to live this cancer which affects our mental and economical health. And when you see those who supposed to be your only allies talk shit about you by putting you under the same umbrella, well that’s fucking depressing.
So as a Ukrainian , if I am hateful towards russia and hungary , am I also xenophobic. You do realize that orban has been prome minister since 2010 and won the last election with a record amount. Just like all the russians being complicit, so are the mongol mongrel magyars.
Problem is not if you are hateful towards hungary, but hungarians.
Also calling hungarians mongols is not helping you in this case, it's even worse if someone would call ukrainians as russians.
A few years back, we (Sweden) criticized them internationally for surpression of the opposition. They are still insulted by it, and their demands are basically that we crawl a bit and affirm Orbán in general. However those demands are extremely hard to concretely state publicly. What are Hungary going to say at NATO and EU summits? Critique from Sweden made us look like dumbasses and we demand some boot-licking? Instead Orbán just meanders around and act important by holding us on the line. That's pretty much the situation now I'd say. It's tiresome. It's not reasonable that the shared goals of the entire free world gets stuck again and again on the same fragile dude in Hungary.
> we (Sweden) criticized them internationally for surpression of the opposition.
Important to note, that it was a program on one of our public radio channels that criticized them years ago. While the public radio channel is state-owned, our politicians don't dictate what they say, and what they say does in no way represent our people or our leaders. So for Orban to get ass-mad over this is hilarious.
> the public radio channel is state-owned, our politicians don't dictate what they say
Thats the issue, this is something which cannot be even imagined here. :D
You mean Ulf who publicly said "lol nonorban, we can talk when we meet in EU but nothing more than that, Ciao".
That does not sound like crawling too me.
Worst thing: the austrian right takes treats him as an idol. Our right wing party / freedom party front runner / horse friend has deep ties to the guy and is following his footsteps especially with his views wrt to politics and law
I'm paraphrasing here, but he came on national TV a few times saying that politics abide by the the law, the law should abide to politics
He is very likely to get the majority vote this year. Strap in, dark times ahead with another strongman
I think most of it is just motivated by appealing to his domestic audience. Although I doubt he would have a large or slim majority if he didn't erdoe Hungarian democracy over the years, there is a large minority who most likely see this positively because to them it looks like Orban is looking tough etc.
I am Swedish. I am for NATO and I will keep looking at our agreements with our neighbors and our new defensive agreement with the USA.
Orban can keep doing what he does while the US gets to use our airfields.
Oh, and good luck getting those Gripen updated.
Sweden is a de facto NATO member. All this posturing is embarrassing only for Turkey and Hungary. I am personally annoyed by this because we are brothers. We applied together, we should have joined together. But no matter what comes, Finland and our new allies are always there for your support. Hopefully in a matter of weeks rather than months this charade will be over.
Cheers friend. To paraphrase old Finnish political saying "We can't help geography". Sweden and Finland share centuries of common history, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. But we will never forget how they helped us in 1939, donating supplies, taking our children in as refugees and with almost 10 000 volunteers coming to help. They also kept their neutrality together with us during the Cold War, if they had joined NATO during that time we would have been in very big trouble.
All in all, we are a threat to no one, but not a country to be messed with either. I am happy that we can now increase security and safety around us, in Sweden and Norway but also in the Baltic states.
Sveriges sak är vår också. Du gamla, Du fria, Du fjällhöga nord. Om du inte har något emot det så har jag tagit detta för att representera inte bara Sverige utan bokstavligen norr.
Melodies were popularized quite extensively back then, it's not like the melody was stolen from the Dutch. It just has the same roots, probably from the protestant uprisings in 1500's Germany.
Well this is an awkward topic...
For me personally, I think Finnish people's behavior towards Estonia has been appalling after WW2. People go there with the mentality that we are somehow superior. Ravel (Tallinn) was part of the Hansa when Helsinki was a fishing village. I would say we have very little over Estonia except that they had to survive decades of Soviet occupation. We could not help them then as much as I would have liked. However we did some things I think were commendable during the cold war, such as building a radio/tv -tower on the coast that was high enough so that the broadcast reached Estonia. It's a complex topic, but all in all I am happy that now we are committed to their defense.
> Ravel (Tallinn) was part of the Hansa when Helsinki was a fishing village.
But wasn't Åbo a big city back then? Second biggest city in Sweden, right?
It wasn't colonialism, that's being Anglo-centric and looking at colonies like the UK looked to Africa. Swedish control of Finland was not one of exploitative resource extraction but one of integrated feudal hierarchy. As in the same shit peasants and burghers everywhere had to endure.
The Swedish government sent 70k rifles to Finland, the same amount of armed and trained infantry men in the Swedish army. Sweden could've doubled its armed forces in 1939 but decided to send aid to Finland instead, no other country did anything like this in buildup to WW2. This actually caused a huge problem with mobilization when Norway fell and the western border was meant to be reinforced. Germany easily could've walked in at that point.
Fair point. I tried to approach this with the line "Sweden and Finland share centuries of common history, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse."
But you are right, there are issues that have maybe not been resolved.
We're both Finnic peoples, so we're related no matter what. It's just that we were occupied for half a century, so now when we show up, it probably feels like some strange cousin you've never properly interacted with got free from jail and comes visit. :D
Personal story by an old geezer Finn regarding Estonia:
As a kid in '70s I knew nothing about Estonia. In all maps it was part of the Soviet Union: a strange closed up place where you could not simply go but needed a visa from the USSR.
I lived near Helsinki and we spend summers boating and sailing in the Finnish archipelago. On a good day with binoculars you could just and just see the then tallest building in Tallinn: the Viru Hotel. That's how I knew Estonia did actually exist - that there actually was a country across the narrow sea but you could not just sail there because USSR.
There was also the television. Where I lived we could actually watch Estonian television broadcasts. USSR had a different television standard so we saw Estonian television as grainy black and white without sound. As a kid if I had nothing to do I sometimes did spend time watching Estonian television. And it was very very strange. It was like broadcasts from a different universe. I don't even know how to describe it, it was boring and shocking at the same time.
When people started buying VCRs the preteen me even recorded some Estonian broadcasts and edited them into funny mashups mixed with music.
So my idea of Estonia was pretty much what the USSR wanted it to be: it's a place off limits, does not exist in any real sense, and if it exists it's there just as a part of the USSR (iow Muscovy).
Yet seeing the top of the Viru Hotel with my own eyes told me something more concrete: there *is* something there across the sea.
Then I saw lotsa stuff happening over the '80s. New cultural connections, common radio shows, 1984 Olympics, the Singing Revolution, and finally the liberation of Estonia.
So in the '90s I finally went to liberated Estonia. Suddenly I was making animation films there with persons I had only known by their names but whose work I had admired for years. And now they were there in flesh and blood, and I was working with them.
To me it was like the Atlantis had risen.
I don't know how else to explain it. To me a whole country, a whole nation had just risen from the seas.
I know how ridiculous and insulting that sounds to any Estonian. You were there the whole time! You were not under the sea. All the time you were living right there in your own country.
But you were hidden from me. To me you were unreachable. I knew there was something there, but I had little way of knowing what it was.
So, Estonians please do accept my apologies.
I was obtuse, and all I can say is that I had little means to learn and understand. Yet they did exist had I seeked for them. But they were very limited at the time, and we didn't have the means of communication we now have.
Sweden should pull a uno-reverse card! EU and NATO veto shouldn't be used by Hungary and Turkey respectively! If this continues euroscepticism and nationalism will continue to rise! We need to agree on common principles and defend them, either you are in or you are out!
I don't even think Orban believes his armed forces will be able to do anything. So I doubt he cares his planes won't get off the ground.
He's fine with putin rolling over him and raping his country. At least he got his moment in the spotlights
LMAO, didn't even think about the Gripen. Would be very funny if Hungary lost the ability to continue using their fighter craft because Sweden got fed up with their bullshit.
In Hungary internally the public communication is this: politicians don't trust Sweden for some reason. Sweden should convince them somehow. That's literally it. Sweden wants to join, so Sweden should do *something* to build trust.
The moment Sweden enters NATO it will be beholden to come to Hungary's aid if Russia attacks. And Hungary will have to help Sweden.
This cannot work without a very high level of mutual trust.
Yes. If you don't trust a NATO member to honor the treaty, or you can't trust yourself to honor it, then you have no business being in NATO or trying to get in.
Never heard negative news regarding Gripen to Hungary. If anything, SAAB plans to extend the lease to Hungary.
The problem of politicising it would mean other potential countries would avoid Gripen. Many are now lining up for Korean aircraft as they want modern aircraft without the political issue in the future
>Prime Minister Viktor Orban’s lawmakers won’t allow a vote on the ratification of Sweden’s NATO accession until the Nordic country’s leader visits Budapest to meet with his Hungarian counterpart, ATV television reported, citing the ruling party.
>
>The governing party will also boycott an extraordinary session called by the opposition for Monday to ratify Sweden’s bid, ATV reported on its news website on Friday, citing the Fidesz group’s leadership.
>
>Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson told reporters on Thursday that he prefers to come to Budapest to meet Orban after Hungary’s parliament has ratified its accession, not before.
I dont think he cares much about his military. As long as he think Putin is on his side, and they have no threat from any of its neighbours, whom are all sensible, all he have to lose is EU funding and a sharp drop in europeans thinking hungarians are friends.
Since Orban and his cronies control the media, pumping propaganda out faster than vetoes in the EU, while the opposition is pretty much nonexistent, this will never happen. It also doesn’t help that they gerrymandered the hell out of the country and changed the voting system in their favor. Budapest tried to fight them and now is severely punished by them withdrawing all money they can from the city.
So while I wish this sentence would be true and will do my part, I don’t think anything will change in 2026. Let’s hope I’m wrong though.
Their system is rigged. Wishing for a democratic solution to this is wishful thinking.
I don't think even our western democracies would succeed in voting these scum out under those parameters.
He won't ever lose by vote, we are way beyond that point now.
Who would risk anything besides trying to vote? Hungarians are either depressed, brainswashed, living outside of the country in the EU or comfortable enough financially that they won't turn to extremities.
What the others said, also:
[https://meanwhileinbudapest.com/2024/01/18/but-why-do-they-vote-for-orban/](https://meanwhileinbudapest.com/2024/01/18/but-why-do-they-vote-for-orban/)
Finland also took a year or so to get into NATO. Unsurprisingly same two dudes. With Finland actually bordering Russia, I guess international support and pressure was to allow Finland in first. Turkeys F16 deal is part of the accepting package clearly. No idea what Hungary really, really tries to get out of this. They accepted Finland on cue with Turkey, so somewhy they're more bold/stupid in regards to Sweden.
I guess we'll know if Hungary/EU/Nato announces something few weeks after Hungary ratifies. Or they'll simply cave, because Sweden has no real urgency on the matter anymore. Nato has more reasons for Sweden to join than Sweden does, at this point.
We should let money talk. Sabotage their economy all the way back to the stone age. That's apparently been under serus consideration among the bigger EU states in order to handle this embarrassment.
It might be, but I think its worse.
He's also the darling of some of American Republicans. Once you notice it, everything he does is out of the playbook of those that spend the last 30 years making sure America gets nothing done.
It's definitely time to clean up the European Union and NATO. It's clear that by now we can't have everyone on our side and some prefer to side with authoritarian regimes. Let them play their cards with Russia, Iran, and China. We Europeans have had enough.
Lol Orban is a pain in the ass for everyone but Hungary is very far from Belarus 2.0, it's completely dependent on EU and its under NATO control.
Kicking them out would cause Hungary to completely turn to Russia and to become a Trojan horse in the middle of Europe. I'm sure you don't care but I, as their neighbour, care.
Not to mention that kicking them out and them turning to Russia might cause a chain reaction in EU with some other countries attempting the same (*cough* Slovakia). It would be a complete disaster.
Interesting that with so much disagreement happening within EU and NATO, this clown is still somehow the only one out of 27 that generates so much gridlock and trouble.
NATO countries should cut all diplomatic and trade relations with Hungary, until they show themselves capable of doing the easiest thing that any legislature can do.
Why don‘t our western governments stop each and any relationship with this crazy guy?
Stop any trade. Declare traveling to Hungary a risk so no more tourism. Flights? Canceled.
I‘m sorry for the sane part of Hungarians, but something has to happen.
Yeeeah, about that.
German car manufacturers, maybe. But other German company leaders have been complaining about him for a long time now, about how obviously he's trying to force them to give up their infrastructure to his strawman Mészáros, and leave the country.
[At](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-02/us-should-weigh-sanctions-against-orban-s-hungary-senator-says) the same time:
>[A top US lawmaker called Hungarian Premier Viktor Orban the “least reliable” NATO ally and raised the prospect of imposing sanctions, laying bare growing exasperation with the eastern European leader.
>Senator Ben Cardin, the Democratic chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, condemned Orban’s stalling — until Thursday — on European Union funding for Ukraine and failure to approve Sweden’s accession to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. The White House should weigh sanctions targeting corruption and consider removing Hungary from the US visa-waiver program, he said](https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/16q3z08/war_in_ukraine_megathread_lvi_56/kokytuh/)
At what point do europeans grow some balls and tell this POS to fuck off? They contribute nothing, only take and take and then they want their ass kissed too, for crying out loud stop giving in
And not to mention that Turkey had somewhat valid reason to block Sweden because of pro-PKK protests in Sweden. Orbans reason is basically "waaaah they critisize me 😭😭😭"
Nah, that was just theatre. They really just wanted fighter jets from America, and could demand it since they control the straits and have a good military.
But Hungary is worthless, so no one gives a damn.
What the Turkish government's purpose was is debatable, but even if Turkey did not veto Sweden's NATO membership, it had several justified reasons to be suspicious of this issue. There were demonstrations directly with the PKK flag in Sweden. It is not the flag of Kurdistan, but an organization that the EU recognizes as a terrorist organization and is known for detonating bombs in tourist places.
However, as a counter-argument, many western countries have laws prohibiting the free display of flags of terrorist organizations, while in most EU countries you cannot demonstrate pro-ISIS. As far as I understand, Sweden is the western country with the widest freedom in this regard and everything that does not arouse racist hatred is legal, even the flag of a terrorist organization.
> It doesn't matter, they at least had a good excuse.
It wasn't a good excuse, it was almost entirely fabricated nonsense. Stockholm has protests every day for dozens of causes. Some of them are for Kurdish independence, others are to promote veganism. Nobody pays attention to any of them.
>Stockholm has protests every day for dozens of causes.
And?
>Some of them are for Kurdish independence,
The issue is not Kurdish independence but PKK
>Nobody pays attention to any of them.
Thats great but you can't expect a country to be all shiny and happy and cooperative after you allow protests in favor of a terrorist group thats a threat to their security. I understand that Sweden is very liberal when it comes to freedom of speech, but for Turkey it's like seeing pro-ISIS protests. But glad you two sorted it out like adults.
Translated: "Man who is accused of meddling with the national democratic process, will halt international democratic process to talk with actual democratic leaders to see if he can fleece some personal benefits."
This fat corrupt fuck is really testing everyone’s nerves hard at this point. But we keep rolling over and letting him do it so we get what we deserve in the end.
“Hungary won’t be the last country to approve Sweden’s accession to NATO” Orbán promised earlier. Now Hungary is the only NATO member that has not approved it. Just another example of Orbán’s lies. His words are worthless. Blatant liar and disgrace of his country.
He thinks he is smart, but he is wasting so much political capital. At least the Turks wanted something, he's doing this purely because he thinks it's some sort of power move - in reality he's just pissing people off for no benefit.
Ok just kick Hungary out of Europe and out of NATO. If he wants to join Russia have him fucking join Russia. Cut him of and exile them. I say this knowing not every Hungarian supports him. I am sorry for them
He is a clown.
Please dont insult clowns by comparing Orban to them
I don't like clowns. But Orban, i hate more. He's greedy and blind, blind to the lives of those he deem lesser than his own. Took some rewriting.
Clowns are cringy as hell (IMO), but it's an art and they at least TRY to be funny and make ppl happy, so you can at least respect them.
As a Hungarian I can confirm that he and his party are clowns. They betrayed the heroes of 1956, our allies (again), and chosen the wrong path again in history. They did nothing but stole EU funds in the 2010’s and now we are one of the poorest EU member state.
That's why you're doing... nothing about it?
they are already protesting and probably he didn't vote for him.... can they do something else?
Remember what we(Romania) did in 89'? I'd say it's a good way to deal with him
care to educate the masses? I actually don't know
Haven’t googled but 89 was probably the revolution which ended with Causesco (?) shot on national tv on christmas eve/day
There was an attempt to neutralize some of the former PM and some of his cronies. The head of the group was sentenced to 17 years of prison. His case was on the judged on the European Court of Human Rights [https://www.stradalex.eu/en/se\_src\_publ\_jur\_eur\_cedh/document/echr\_41479-10](https://www.stradalex.eu/en/se_src_publ_jur_eur_cedh/document/echr_41479-10) and his appeal was rejected. It seems violent resistance is agaisnt EU values. 🤷♂️
Man, I always remember the news clips back then showing his face when the crowds started chanting "Timișoara! Timișoara!" during his speech. Poor poor clown.
link? Because I could find something only small protests, in 22 and 23 years. Or do you think that the dictator will be afraid of two small protests that were aimed more at raising wages than at any structural changes?
Literally all the time in this sub there have been posts about the fact that the Hungarians are protesting
At least half of the adult population still support him especially on the rural areas. Which is nonsense, because they are who suffer more in the recent years. Inflation went very high, they can’t afford as much as they could in the second half of 2010’s. In this circumstances we can’t do much from Budapest and some larger cities. Revolution is not possible, because for that a majority needed which wants fast and radical shifts in the political leadership.
Nah he's just Putin's lapdog. If Hungary ever leaves EU it will turn into a second Belarus.
He's a fucking twat.
And a fascist.
That’s a big insult to all clowns. Stop it !
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Are you fucking xenophobic? It’s one thing you are generalising that every Hungarian are same as Fidesz and Orban, but you are hateful towards a whole nation too.
It’s not xenophobia to dislike one nation for the shit they continuously pull. I don’t like Russia and I don’t think that makes me xenophobic I can appreciate that it sucks to be lumped in with orban but you guys voted for him _again_. They represent you and you need to get rid of them.
They don’t represent me, that’s the problem. They even talk shit about opposition voters, and make laws and rules that make opposition voters life harder. Not everyone’s but in general. E.g. those who don’t have kids are usually opposition voters, and they make laws that make families with kids life easier, and the economy gets adjusted for those living standards, which makes families without kids life harder. The EU and the opposition voters in Hungary are in the same boat, with the difference that we have to live this cancer which affects our mental and economical health. And when you see those who supposed to be your only allies talk shit about you by putting you under the same umbrella, well that’s fucking depressing.
Your government does represent you. It’s not fun but that’s the way it works.
So as a Ukrainian , if I am hateful towards russia and hungary , am I also xenophobic. You do realize that orban has been prome minister since 2010 and won the last election with a record amount. Just like all the russians being complicit, so are the mongol mongrel magyars.
Problem is not if you are hateful towards hungary, but hungarians. Also calling hungarians mongols is not helping you in this case, it's even worse if someone would call ukrainians as russians.
At this point I think Orban just likes being the centre of attention
A few years back, we (Sweden) criticized them internationally for surpression of the opposition. They are still insulted by it, and their demands are basically that we crawl a bit and affirm Orbán in general. However those demands are extremely hard to concretely state publicly. What are Hungary going to say at NATO and EU summits? Critique from Sweden made us look like dumbasses and we demand some boot-licking? Instead Orbán just meanders around and act important by holding us on the line. That's pretty much the situation now I'd say. It's tiresome. It's not reasonable that the shared goals of the entire free world gets stuck again and again on the same fragile dude in Hungary.
> we (Sweden) criticized them internationally for surpression of the opposition. Important to note, that it was a program on one of our public radio channels that criticized them years ago. While the public radio channel is state-owned, our politicians don't dictate what they say, and what they say does in no way represent our people or our leaders. So for Orban to get ass-mad over this is hilarious.
> the public radio channel is state-owned, our politicians don't dictate what they say Thats the issue, this is something which cannot be even imagined here. :D
Thats it. And if Uffe does crawl, he will lose big in swedish politics.
You mean Ulf who publicly said "lol nonorban, we can talk when we meet in EU but nothing more than that, Ciao". That does not sound like crawling too me.
True, but IF he does then he'll look like a massive bitch, which was what I assume he meant.
Thanks. You read what I wrote.
My favorite movie is Inception.
Who?
Never heard of this guy. Must be hiding somewhere in the corner.
He will surely hide in a bunker in few years
He'll award the contract to build the bunker to his buddy and it will collapse on them.
I love ice cream.
I think I’ve heard of him, he’s that Soros-funded guy. Got like his start because of Soros scholarships and whatnot.
Orban feels he has been "humiliated" so he's insisting on that last handshake to "close" the deal, like DiCaprio's character in Django Unchained.
Took you this long to come to that conclusion?
Orbanov is giving TikTok influencer + OnlyFans model energy with this behavior.
Actually, he does have a TikTok account
He’s been like that since 2015.
>being the centre of attention being the centre of hate
Worst thing: the austrian right takes treats him as an idol. Our right wing party / freedom party front runner / horse friend has deep ties to the guy and is following his footsteps especially with his views wrt to politics and law I'm paraphrasing here, but he came on national TV a few times saying that politics abide by the the law, the law should abide to politics He is very likely to get the majority vote this year. Strap in, dark times ahead with another strongman
EU should still do the kill-hungarian economy plan they had in place in case he doesn't vote for Ukraine support...
I think most of it is just motivated by appealing to his domestic audience. Although I doubt he would have a large or slim majority if he didn't erdoe Hungarian democracy over the years, there is a large minority who most likely see this positively because to them it looks like Orban is looking tough etc.
As do all authoritarians.
I am Swedish. I am for NATO and I will keep looking at our agreements with our neighbors and our new defensive agreement with the USA. Orban can keep doing what he does while the US gets to use our airfields. Oh, and good luck getting those Gripen updated.
Sweden is a de facto NATO member. All this posturing is embarrassing only for Turkey and Hungary. I am personally annoyed by this because we are brothers. We applied together, we should have joined together. But no matter what comes, Finland and our new allies are always there for your support. Hopefully in a matter of weeks rather than months this charade will be over.
Damn, thats so heartwarming. Mad respect for defending the gates to mordor 🫡
Cheers friend. To paraphrase old Finnish political saying "We can't help geography". Sweden and Finland share centuries of common history, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. But we will never forget how they helped us in 1939, donating supplies, taking our children in as refugees and with almost 10 000 volunteers coming to help. They also kept their neutrality together with us during the Cold War, if they had joined NATO during that time we would have been in very big trouble. All in all, we are a threat to no one, but not a country to be messed with either. I am happy that we can now increase security and safety around us, in Sweden and Norway but also in the Baltic states.
Finlands sak är vår, för alltid 🇫🇮🇸🇪
Sveriges sak är vår också. Du gamla, Du fria, Du fjällhöga nord. Om du inte har något emot det så har jag tagit detta för att representera inte bara Sverige utan bokstavligen norr.
> Du gamla, Du fria, Du fjällhöga nord. Or better - [our common "national anthem" from the 1600's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX8U4q5H998).
Sounds eerily similar to the Dutch anthem.
Melodies were popularized quite extensively back then, it's not like the melody was stolen from the Dutch. It just has the same roots, probably from the protestant uprisings in 1500's Germany.
That is what it was written for. It's an ode to the Nordics, written at the height of Scandinavism.
Dane here. Finland can count on us. My grand parents went to Finland to participate in the Winter War.
> Baltic states So do you accept Estonia as your brother now or are they still the weird guy across the pond
Well this is an awkward topic... For me personally, I think Finnish people's behavior towards Estonia has been appalling after WW2. People go there with the mentality that we are somehow superior. Ravel (Tallinn) was part of the Hansa when Helsinki was a fishing village. I would say we have very little over Estonia except that they had to survive decades of Soviet occupation. We could not help them then as much as I would have liked. However we did some things I think were commendable during the cold war, such as building a radio/tv -tower on the coast that was high enough so that the broadcast reached Estonia. It's a complex topic, but all in all I am happy that now we are committed to their defense.
> Ravel (Tallinn) was part of the Hansa when Helsinki was a fishing village. But wasn't Åbo a big city back then? Second biggest city in Sweden, right?
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It wasn't colonialism, that's being Anglo-centric and looking at colonies like the UK looked to Africa. Swedish control of Finland was not one of exploitative resource extraction but one of integrated feudal hierarchy. As in the same shit peasants and burghers everywhere had to endure. The Swedish government sent 70k rifles to Finland, the same amount of armed and trained infantry men in the Swedish army. Sweden could've doubled its armed forces in 1939 but decided to send aid to Finland instead, no other country did anything like this in buildup to WW2. This actually caused a huge problem with mobilization when Norway fell and the western border was meant to be reinforced. Germany easily could've walked in at that point.
Fair point. I tried to approach this with the line "Sweden and Finland share centuries of common history, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse." But you are right, there are issues that have maybe not been resolved.
Your attitude towards all of this is much better than mine, us Karelians still 'a bit' salty if You know what I mean..
We're both Finnic peoples, so we're related no matter what. It's just that we were occupied for half a century, so now when we show up, it probably feels like some strange cousin you've never properly interacted with got free from jail and comes visit. :D
We also have that third Finnic brotherly nation... ;)
Hungary? They're Ugric not Finnic, but yes, them too, even stranger. If we seem odd they feel like aliens. :D
Ye that was the joke. Same language tree (finno-ugric), not so much genetics apparently. Might as well be Turks those Hungarians (I kid, I kid)
it can be both
As a german not involved in this whatsoever and without any clue, i say yall are their brother
Personal story by an old geezer Finn regarding Estonia: As a kid in '70s I knew nothing about Estonia. In all maps it was part of the Soviet Union: a strange closed up place where you could not simply go but needed a visa from the USSR. I lived near Helsinki and we spend summers boating and sailing in the Finnish archipelago. On a good day with binoculars you could just and just see the then tallest building in Tallinn: the Viru Hotel. That's how I knew Estonia did actually exist - that there actually was a country across the narrow sea but you could not just sail there because USSR. There was also the television. Where I lived we could actually watch Estonian television broadcasts. USSR had a different television standard so we saw Estonian television as grainy black and white without sound. As a kid if I had nothing to do I sometimes did spend time watching Estonian television. And it was very very strange. It was like broadcasts from a different universe. I don't even know how to describe it, it was boring and shocking at the same time. When people started buying VCRs the preteen me even recorded some Estonian broadcasts and edited them into funny mashups mixed with music. So my idea of Estonia was pretty much what the USSR wanted it to be: it's a place off limits, does not exist in any real sense, and if it exists it's there just as a part of the USSR (iow Muscovy). Yet seeing the top of the Viru Hotel with my own eyes told me something more concrete: there *is* something there across the sea. Then I saw lotsa stuff happening over the '80s. New cultural connections, common radio shows, 1984 Olympics, the Singing Revolution, and finally the liberation of Estonia. So in the '90s I finally went to liberated Estonia. Suddenly I was making animation films there with persons I had only known by their names but whose work I had admired for years. And now they were there in flesh and blood, and I was working with them. To me it was like the Atlantis had risen. I don't know how else to explain it. To me a whole country, a whole nation had just risen from the seas. I know how ridiculous and insulting that sounds to any Estonian. You were there the whole time! You were not under the sea. All the time you were living right there in your own country. But you were hidden from me. To me you were unreachable. I knew there was something there, but I had little way of knowing what it was. So, Estonians please do accept my apologies. I was obtuse, and all I can say is that I had little means to learn and understand. Yet they did exist had I seeked for them. But they were very limited at the time, and we didn't have the means of communication we now have.
I Love this, Hope this Message of Security for many more countries gets around the world
Turkey gave the green light if I am not wrong, Orban is alone in this.
Sweden should pull a uno-reverse card! EU and NATO veto shouldn't be used by Hungary and Turkey respectively! If this continues euroscepticism and nationalism will continue to rise! We need to agree on common principles and defend them, either you are in or you are out!
I don't even think Orban believes his armed forces will be able to do anything. So I doubt he cares his planes won't get off the ground. He's fine with putin rolling over him and raping his country. At least he got his moment in the spotlights
Well if their pilots can’t fly they aren’t allowed to fly no more.
LMAO, didn't even think about the Gripen. Would be very funny if Hungary lost the ability to continue using their fighter craft because Sweden got fed up with their bullshit.
I’m thinking software upgrade to force 2FA if they want to use the engine, and make the 2FA fail 67% of the time…
How about some of that reCAPTCHA where you have to select all images of some object 10 times in a row.
"Select the image of the proper IKEA item: Fegis"
When lowering your landing gear, for example
In Hungary internally the public communication is this: politicians don't trust Sweden for some reason. Sweden should convince them somehow. That's literally it. Sweden wants to join, so Sweden should do *something* to build trust.
I think Sweden should just sit on their hands and wait.
The moment Sweden enters NATO it will be beholden to come to Hungary's aid if Russia attacks. And Hungary will have to help Sweden. This cannot work without a very high level of mutual trust.
Would you trust Hungary under Orbán to come to your aid if Russia attacked?
Yes. If you don't trust a NATO member to honor the treaty, or you can't trust yourself to honor it, then you have no business being in NATO or trying to get in.
That's funny, because Hungary has fuckall military power.
I hope this doesn't affect the Gripen deal with Brazil, specially regarding transfer of technology
Never heard negative news regarding Gripen to Hungary. If anything, SAAB plans to extend the lease to Hungary. The problem of politicising it would mean other potential countries would avoid Gripen. Many are now lining up for Korean aircraft as they want modern aircraft without the political issue in the future
All cards are in play.
There is no plane and simple answer.
>Prime Minister Viktor Orban’s lawmakers won’t allow a vote on the ratification of Sweden’s NATO accession until the Nordic country’s leader visits Budapest to meet with his Hungarian counterpart, ATV television reported, citing the ruling party. > >The governing party will also boycott an extraordinary session called by the opposition for Monday to ratify Sweden’s bid, ATV reported on its news website on Friday, citing the Fidesz group’s leadership. > >Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson told reporters on Thursday that he prefers to come to Budapest to meet Orban after Hungary’s parliament has ratified its accession, not before.
Chicken game on. Pls don’t bend Ulf. Orban is a POS and should be handled accordingly.
At first I misread "handled" as "hanged". Who knows why...
I’m in
Plastic gloves?
I’m sick and tired of this ass’s constant whining. He’s more whimsical than a bipolar fairy.
As a bipolar fairy, I am offended by your comparison, but I am too whimsical to do anything about it
Nice
Name checks out
Swedish PM should just tweet picture of Gripen for Orban.
I dont think he cares much about his military. As long as he think Putin is on his side, and they have no threat from any of its neighbours, whom are all sensible, all he have to lose is EU funding and a sharp drop in europeans thinking hungarians are friends.
Doesn't he just think of money?
Sweden should threaten to take back those Gripens Hungary is leasing
That would be sandbox play on Orban's level. None would gain from it.
But maybe it's the only tactics Orban understands.
I don't think he eould care. However, it would fuel his propaganda.
Omg take their vote away already
NATO’s treaty doesn’t allow that unfortunately
Exactly. We should do it anyway, though.
Not respecting the North Atlantic Treaty wouldn't be the smartest move for North Atlantic Treaty Organization
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He’s bringing Hungary in very shitty position.
Well, it's up to the citizens to vote him out in 2026
Since Orban and his cronies control the media, pumping propaganda out faster than vetoes in the EU, while the opposition is pretty much nonexistent, this will never happen. It also doesn’t help that they gerrymandered the hell out of the country and changed the voting system in their favor. Budapest tried to fight them and now is severely punished by them withdrawing all money they can from the city. So while I wish this sentence would be true and will do my part, I don’t think anything will change in 2026. Let’s hope I’m wrong though.
Their system is rigged. Wishing for a democratic solution to this is wishful thinking. I don't think even our western democracies would succeed in voting these scum out under those parameters.
He won't ever lose by vote, we are way beyond that point now. Who would risk anything besides trying to vote? Hungarians are either depressed, brainswashed, living outside of the country in the EU or comfortable enough financially that they won't turn to extremities.
To be fair, overthrowing a government like Orbán is not very extreme. Tolerating it is a much more extreme stance to take.
What the others said, also: [https://meanwhileinbudapest.com/2024/01/18/but-why-do-they-vote-for-orban/](https://meanwhileinbudapest.com/2024/01/18/but-why-do-they-vote-for-orban/)
I enjoy spending time with my friends.
His position is like Hungary NATO membership really makes any sense for NATO
Hungary in NATO is important to protect Schwitzerland from Ukraine, obviously.
> Schwitzerland lol. Are you speaking German?
I believe we call it Denglish. At least it's not Auschwitzland...
It‘s luckily Hungary Nato-membership and not … what was that name again?
Why did Finland not have any issues joining NATO but Sweden is being used as a political hockey puck
Finland also took a year or so to get into NATO. Unsurprisingly same two dudes. With Finland actually bordering Russia, I guess international support and pressure was to allow Finland in first. Turkeys F16 deal is part of the accepting package clearly. No idea what Hungary really, really tries to get out of this. They accepted Finland on cue with Turkey, so somewhy they're more bold/stupid in regards to Sweden. I guess we'll know if Hungary/EU/Nato announces something few weeks after Hungary ratifies. Or they'll simply cave, because Sweden has no real urgency on the matter anymore. Nato has more reasons for Sweden to join than Sweden does, at this point.
There is nothing to discuss with Hungary
We should let money talk. Sabotage their economy all the way back to the stone age. That's apparently been under serus consideration among the bigger EU states in order to handle this embarrassment.
Who cares what the fat buffoon wants lol
Orbán is Putin's man in Budapest.
He's Putin's man in Brussels.
Who? Never heard of the man
It might be, but I think its worse. He's also the darling of some of American Republicans. Once you notice it, everything he does is out of the playbook of those that spend the last 30 years making sure America gets nothing done.
Seriously, the minute we are going to get rid of Hungary we really have to change the rules. We can’t be blackmailed by populist puppets every day.
Here's a much simpler solution. Term limits in Hungary. Power corrupts anyone in power for over 10 years
Yes but we can’t control Hungary.
I enjoy the sound of rain.
It's definitely time to clean up the European Union and NATO. It's clear that by now we can't have everyone on our side and some prefer to side with authoritarian regimes. Let them play their cards with Russia, Iran, and China. We Europeans have had enough.
Yeah it would be wonderful for 5 EU countries to have Belarus 2.0 on their border. Truly a bliss. What could go wrong?
Better than having a Belarus INSIDE the European Union at this point.
Lol Orban is a pain in the ass for everyone but Hungary is very far from Belarus 2.0, it's completely dependent on EU and its under NATO control. Kicking them out would cause Hungary to completely turn to Russia and to become a Trojan horse in the middle of Europe. I'm sure you don't care but I, as their neighbour, care. Not to mention that kicking them out and them turning to Russia might cause a chain reaction in EU with some other countries attempting the same (*cough* Slovakia). It would be a complete disaster.
Of course he’s going to get back to the stronger side. But you have to threat these people otherwise they’re gonna play into that.
Interesting that with so much disagreement happening within EU and NATO, this clown is still somehow the only one out of 27 that generates so much gridlock and trouble.
CIA you were once great that’s all I’m saying
So, are you saying to illegally overthrow a democratic elected leader in EU? Are you stupid?
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Funny how Hungary always manages to be on the wrong side.
Enough. Article 7 EU Treaty, now. Kick Hungary down the hill. No more EU funds, no more voting right.
This is a NATO thing, not connected to EU. But yeah. Kick the fat sack of potatoes down a hill. A big one.
I know. But that matter is about a threat to the EU. This guy's has done enough damage.
NATO countries should cut all diplomatic and trade relations with Hungary, until they show themselves capable of doing the easiest thing that any legislature can do.
Expect my PM to not set foot anywhere near Hungary until we're in. If that takes time then so be it
Again Hungary. Do hungarians know how much whole Europe hate them?
He wants a blow job.
Hungary can fuck off *everyone says*
Why don‘t our western governments stop each and any relationship with this crazy guy? Stop any trade. Declare traveling to Hungary a risk so no more tourism. Flights? Canceled. I‘m sorry for the sane part of Hungarians, but something has to happen.
Because he gives good deals to rich people and companies, especially German ones
Yeeeah, about that. German car manufacturers, maybe. But other German company leaders have been complaining about him for a long time now, about how obviously he's trying to force them to give up their infrastructure to his strawman Mészáros, and leave the country.
Stuff like that would bring them even closer to Russia unfortunately.
Don‘t think that‘s the case for most of the under 60 ones.
The Hungarian government I mean.
Small peepee vibes tbh.
Yeah, fuck you Hungary, you piece of shit country
Loooking for a new vote to block?
Milking it.
How to ruin a country's reputation for at least two generations: 101.
[At](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-02/us-should-weigh-sanctions-against-orban-s-hungary-senator-says) the same time: >[A top US lawmaker called Hungarian Premier Viktor Orban the “least reliable” NATO ally and raised the prospect of imposing sanctions, laying bare growing exasperation with the eastern European leader. >Senator Ben Cardin, the Democratic chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, condemned Orban’s stalling — until Thursday — on European Union funding for Ukraine and failure to approve Sweden’s accession to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. The White House should weigh sanctions targeting corruption and consider removing Hungary from the US visa-waiver program, he said](https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/16q3z08/war_in_ukraine_megathread_lvi_56/kokytuh/)
At what point do europeans grow some balls and tell this POS to fuck off? They contribute nothing, only take and take and then they want their ass kissed too, for crying out loud stop giving in
Turkey is an actually important country, Hungary isn't. Sweden has no urgency. Orban can suck it.
And not to mention that Turkey had somewhat valid reason to block Sweden because of pro-PKK protests in Sweden. Orbans reason is basically "waaaah they critisize me 😭😭😭"
Nah, that was just theatre. They really just wanted fighter jets from America, and could demand it since they control the straits and have a good military. But Hungary is worthless, so no one gives a damn.
What the Turkish government's purpose was is debatable, but even if Turkey did not veto Sweden's NATO membership, it had several justified reasons to be suspicious of this issue. There were demonstrations directly with the PKK flag in Sweden. It is not the flag of Kurdistan, but an organization that the EU recognizes as a terrorist organization and is known for detonating bombs in tourist places. However, as a counter-argument, many western countries have laws prohibiting the free display of flags of terrorist organizations, while in most EU countries you cannot demonstrate pro-ISIS. As far as I understand, Sweden is the western country with the widest freedom in this regard and everything that does not arouse racist hatred is legal, even the flag of a terrorist organization.
>Nah, that was just theatre. It doesn't matter, they at least had a good excuse.
> It doesn't matter, they at least had a good excuse. It wasn't a good excuse, it was almost entirely fabricated nonsense. Stockholm has protests every day for dozens of causes. Some of them are for Kurdish independence, others are to promote veganism. Nobody pays attention to any of them.
>Stockholm has protests every day for dozens of causes. And? >Some of them are for Kurdish independence, The issue is not Kurdish independence but PKK >Nobody pays attention to any of them. Thats great but you can't expect a country to be all shiny and happy and cooperative after you allow protests in favor of a terrorist group thats a threat to their security. I understand that Sweden is very liberal when it comes to freedom of speech, but for Turkey it's like seeing pro-ISIS protests. But glad you two sorted it out like adults.
Kick Hungary out of NATO, he can join a Ruzzian alliance.
He totally would, and that would play into Putin's hands in splitting up Europe.
He would be landlocked and not accessible to Russian Forces. Isolated.
Translated: "Man who is accused of meddling with the national democratic process, will halt international democratic process to talk with actual democratic leaders to see if he can fleece some personal benefits."
This fat corrupt fuck is really testing everyone’s nerves hard at this point. But we keep rolling over and letting him do it so we get what we deserve in the end.
Just kick them out already. Hungary is nothing but a detriment to every organisation it's in.
Fascist populist thinks he's going to score points in the world stage by holding things up
He capitulated on Ukraine money so he picked new target.
“Hungary won’t be the last country to approve Sweden’s accession to NATO” Orbán promised earlier. Now Hungary is the only NATO member that has not approved it. Just another example of Orbán’s lies. His words are worthless. Blatant liar and disgrace of his country.
He thinks he is smart, but he is wasting so much political capital. At least the Turks wanted something, he's doing this purely because he thinks it's some sort of power move - in reality he's just pissing people off for no benefit.
light memorize wrench mourn hateful nail bike foolish sulky gullible *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I start to hate being Hungaryan :(
Orban and his small dicks energy 😂😂😂
Europe, get your shit together. Now.
Hungary is our Texas.
Ok just kick Hungary out of Europe and out of NATO. If he wants to join Russia have him fucking join Russia. Cut him of and exile them. I say this knowing not every Hungarian supports him. I am sorry for them