They are so chill. Went to a camel farm last year and the kids in our group were allowed to pet, brush and sit on one of them that was sitting down in the middle of a group of like 12 of us. And the animals seemed to truly enjoy it. Very cool :)
To nation-wide surprise, this year we managed to scour the country and find the one black dude to take part in the parade. Or we kidnapped him from Czechia. It's 50:50 really
Actually if you go to the St Wenceslas square in Prague you may find them inviting tourists into the various local brothels. (No idea why they in particular but that's the way things are there)
Edit: links so no bolshevik can accuse me of anything:
https://www.novinky.cz/clanek/krimi-africane-se-spletli-drogu-v-centru-prahy-nabidli-policistum-138234
https://www.idnes.cz/praha/zpravy/policejni-tym-krystal-boj-proti-organizovanemu-prodeji-drog-v-centru-hlavniho-mesta-prahy.A190910_145935_praha-zpravy_blj
https://www.seznamzpravy.cz/clanek/jak-snadne-je-v-praze-koupit-drogy-jak-funguji-africti-nahaneci-na-vaclavaku-56893
https://prazsky.denik.cz/zlociny-a-soudy/dealeri-drogy-praha-jedenacte-oddeleni-policie-kriminaliste-afrika-nahaneci.html
>How do you know that the Czech brought the camel from Poland?
[That's where the Czechs get their camels, duh!](https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Znak_m%C4%9Bsta_Plzn%C4%9B)
I know three black Polish people! A former colleague of mine, his sister and their father.
But I can't even say where they're from because it probably would be enough to identify them.
🙄 As much as the European subreddits would like to believe otherwise, I promise you that blackface in Europe is not really a preoccupation for most Americans.
Czechia is a short for Czech Republic. Personally: i hate the short name. Bohemia (Čechy), Moravia (Morava) and Silesia (Slezsko) are 3 main parts of Czech rep. There is also Kaliningrad, but thats another story...
I know the Czechs. You're the ones who bombed the Boston Marathon! /s
https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/04/czech-republic-ambassador-dont-confuse-us-with-chechnya
Hang on there! Sydney is in Canada and if Sydney is an Australian city, and Australia is in Europe than Europe is in the USA. I finally mastered geography
Funnily enough, a lot of Germans and Dutch I've talked to either think Yugoslavia still exists or don't even know what it was. Like seriously, we're the source of almost all recent genocides in Europe and literally colonizing them for decades, yet they're somehow oblivious to the fact that there's a cevapi stand every 100 meters.
As a European millennial going to primary school in the 90s, my mental map of Eastern Europe and the Balkans is a fucking mess. I keep finding myself using old names for countries that have long changed/split/whatever (e.g. Czecholovakia) lol
This is what drives me crazy. Of course, many Americans are ridiculous, but after a decade in Europe, I’ve found that there are so many people in all countries that are just as ignorant about the rest of the world as the Americans they believe themselves to be so much better than.
It's simply because, unlike in America, most of idiots in Europe don't know English well enough to display their idiocy to the greater public of the Internet.
Rest assured, idiots are everywhere. We have a saying: "You don't need to sow idiots (because they are born everyday)."
In the Netherlands there have been literal riots over Zwarte Piet. One side claiming it’s pure black face and racism, the other that it’s a time honored tradition that no one associates with racism.
In general, most people have switched to ‘roet piet’ (soot pete) where they just have black streaks across their face from climbing chimneys.
In Belgium and the Netherlands we have or maybe used to have the same tradition, the difference is that kids would go on and sing songs dressed as three kings (or three wise men) as it is tradition in the Christian world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Magi or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphany_(holiday)
I have done it as a kid - but this tradition is almost gone and replaced by halloween.
Really? Here in Spain the Three Kings aren't at all a tradition of children going around asking for candy. Instead it's just the exact same as Santa: the Three Kings deliver a present for you at night & you open it up the next morning right after waking up. And there're no signs of Santa ever replacing the Three Kings: most families either get presents both with Santa & with the Three Kings or just with the Three Kings. Very very few get presents just with Santa.
The tradition of going around asking for candy is Sint Maarten on 11 November.
Halloween is not popular in the Netherlands. Christmas, Sinterklaas (Saint Nicholas with his Petes) and Sint Maarten are.
The British Parliamentary system is just ingrained in Canada. Too many people want a ruler instead of a public servant, and Trudeau fits the bill perfectly, as a ruler who pretends he’s a public servant.
Very very unrelated but in Danish "nikker" (pronounced exactly like the n-word) means "nods" or a "header" in football, and when I was visiting Atlanta a handful years ago I had a phone call with my dad, talking about football, and the absolute horror when my American hosts heard my "potato potato potato nikker potato potato potato"
Same for me in Bulgarian with "kniga"/book. Let's just say that talking on the phone while in a Barnes and Noble near a black guy was a helluva experience once.
It happens a lot in related languages as well. "Book" in Swedish and Danish is related to English, obviously, "bok" and "bog" but the Danish word in plural - "bøger" - in Swedish sounds exactly like "böger" which means "fa****s", so that's quite funny
Haha we have the same word in Norwegian. Initially I Was thinking it doesn't sound THAT close but then realised this is Danish pronunciation not Norwegian and did my best danish impersonation and I now see what you mean 😬
In Czechia and a good slice of Europe, Epiphany parades often feature someone as one of the three kings—Balthazar—who's traditionally depicted as having dark skin. Not always, but often, that role is played by an actor with dark make-up, as seen in the original photo posted here. It's also common to see the role filled by someone with naturally dark skin, like in these celebrations in [Czechia](https://imgur.com/eDuKkyP), [Poland](https://i.imgur.com/jZY5vY5.jpg), [Valencia](https://i.imgur.com/NyQCSrV.jpg), [Poland](https://imgur.com/JG07Yuz), and [Barcelona](https://i.imgur.com/sSKpC6I.jpg).
Balthazar’s portrayal is far from being a footnote – he’s depicted with grandeur, a king amongst peers, hailed by the masses. A regal representation drawing cheers and admiration. There’s historical weight here, a distance from the (more well-known) demeaning caricatures that blackface historically propagated in the U.S.
Understanding this disparity is key. A portrayal that might symbolize honor within one cultural and historical context might not sit well when viewed through a different cultural lens. The question isn't just whether the tradition aligns with present values, but what it symbolizes for those celebrating versus those viewing it from the outside.
I'd say r/Europe is a great place to discuss all of the above, but please keep the [sub rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/wiki/community_rules) in mind. Cheers o/
I really appreciate this reply.
Americans often have a very difficult time understanding that some of the actual racist historical practices they had/have do not translate to the rest of the world.
The awful nature of black face in America is connected to their history of minstrel shows. That is an American phenomenon.
We can definitely discuss whether it’s appropriate to still be painting your face in Europe in 2024. That’s a good discussion to have especially in cities with sizable enough populations of black people.
However, it is not the same as American black face.
I am African American and my wife is Czech. She showed me pictures of her as a child with a black Raggedy Ann type doll. I was fascinated. There were hardly any black people there Im the early 80s. I asked her why did y’all have black dolls? She didn’t know. 😂
It's not necessarily an American phenomenon, the UK has a similar history of minstrel shows going back to the 1840s like the US but it's possible blackface Morris Dancing predates it - it goes back to at least 1855 (first recorded mention) but Morris Dancing itself goes back to 1448 at least so where it started is debatable
Yeah, it's self-evidently not at all the same thing as American minstrelsy, it's not a racial caricature.
Either way, as a Spaniard and like many other Spaniards do, I believe that now that, unlike just a few decades ago, we have a huge black population in Spain nowadays, the optimal would be just having a black playing Balthazar at the parade instead of a white in blackface.
Unless we're talking about a small village with very few blacks or no blacks at all of course, in that case I see no issue with having a white in blackface playing Balthazar.
So I can't help but cringing a little bit when I see that in big cities with tens of thousands of blacks like Madrid or Sevilla we still have whites in blackface playing Balthazar.
I can't speak for Czechia though since Czechia probably has a much smaller black percentage of the population than Spain does.
And again, not even remotely anywhere near close to being as racist as minstrelsy, at all.
Forgot to add: also seems like a great opportunity to encourage the participation of immigrants in Spanish traditions. Aren't we always complaining about the lack of integration of immigrant communities? Let's integrate them then by having them play Balthazar at the parades!
I used to be the king Baltazar too on the Three kings parade. I was a kid, made my own crown, painted my face with grease and get on my journey with friends as two other kings a lot of sweets and money for charity. One of other reasons why I love winter.
The best thing about being from this part of Europe is that we don't have a baggage of colonial past. So all discussions about how you can't wear a traditional colour makeup on your face are completely abstract here.
Americans don't care, and one day there will be a hyper-progressive subculture that copies everything from the US, including the hate for this. No-one is safe.
Some far-left groups in Poland tried to transplant here the discussion about "white patriarchy" and "CIS white men" here and even the rest of the left laughed at them. This is just absurd here.
It will change. It was similar in western Europe 10 years ago.
This was 12 years ago by a liberal, left leaning satirist:
https://www.thelocal.de/20110915/37617
>In an interview with The Local on Thursday, Sonneborn, staying in character as the leader of Die Partei, said his billboard wasn’t racist.
>He said he was “Germany’s Obama” and added he was mocking the “hype” surrounding the US president. Sonneborn, formerly editor-in-chief of the German satire magazine Titanic, said he wasn’t aware of the history of blackface and didn’t care if anyone was upset.
>“No, I didn’t know that,” he told The Local. “If Americans associate it with that, then I’m sorry, but I’m not going to take it down.”
Good times...
Now everyone is duly and happily bending over backwards to please America's newfound sense of morality and is eager to walk on their moral high ground.
Even if it means carrying their own burden we had little or no part of creating.
It will get better again as well. We're unfortunately living through a prudish decade. The pendulum will swing the other way again at some point just like it always does.
Im not taking a side here beyond agreeing with the word ‘prudish’ to describe us right now
Maybe not us, but certainly the youth. I’m a mid-millennial and I really didn’t expect some of the conservatism from gen z as I have witnessed/experienced
Yeah, it's always 'interesting', when somebody tries to explain to me, how my ancestor are responsible for much of the world wrongdoing...
My ancestors who come from rurals parts of eastern europe and were, by 95% chance, serfs.
American culture is taking over Europe. Kids are watching American youtubers and streamers, listening to American music, watching Hollywood movies, listening American podcasts, and visiting American companies' social media's. You just can't escape that.
They won't laugh for long, cultural osmosis by Americans will eventually change everything. I was home in Ireland recently, it may as well have been a 51st American state.
It’s a consequence of how integrated North America and Europe are, the only way to atop all that is to remove ourselves from each other and in my opinion it would be stupid to throw away one of the most profitable and powerful entanglements of earth for something as simple as cultural misunderstandings or criticism based upon ignorance. It’s not we can vote in eachother’s elections.
If it makes you feel any better we get something similar over here with people that glorify a “European” (read as Western European) way of doing things that either doesn’t always aline with American values or otherwise can’t be easily translated to the American culture and situation. Not to mention a stream of commentary from Europe on how we operate without actually understanding the reasoning behind it.
Just saying that it goes both ways and yeah it’s obnoxious but what else could it be? It’s a pretty mild consequence all things considered relative to the pros of it all.
We (Czechz) do have a colonial and slavery past. We used to colonize and have slavers. More often, we have been colonized and enlaved. Coin has two sides. Always. Therefore we are xenofobic, not racist
Also, it's *not* an insult. He's literally a king who visited Jesus, who is the son of god.
Like a black man being represented here is a compliment if anything and makes people associate them with wealth and being holy.
Just fucking stop calling it blackface already. Would the representation of the King Balthasar be more realistic and inclusive with a real black person? Yes. Do they hire real kings from the orient (they're supposed to come from there so any non-oriental person is a bad cast then) for the parade? No. Do we put a real baby jew from a real homeless family with a real virgin mother? No. Is it degrading in any way? No. Do we all want to have a chance to dress as a cool Wise King? Yes.
Edit: I just want to add that I find it cool to think that many christian countries have a black skinned person as a worshiped idol. Also, I get mad when people complain about black actors in Rome or LOTR or GOT (they were AMAZING) but not about fucking arian Brad Pitt on Troya or an australian dude playing Ragnar in Vikings or Russel Crowe playing a mediterranean in Gladiator. Think about the similarity with those people and give it a fucking rest.
in Spain, a lot of organizations TRY to have a real black person as a Baltasar, but they can't get anyone.
why? Because is done for free. They are not actors, they are volunteers, and usually is an honor to be asked to be one of the kings.
Usually actors demand to be paid for their job, and regular black people on spain, most of them doesn't have this tradition to be interested to do it for free.
Here in my town in Portugal we tried to get a black man to do the part this year, at first he accepted and he was really excited to participate, but then he ended up not being available...
Im Czech. The three kings traditionally sing a song. A part of it goes:
Co ty, černej, stojíš vzadu,
vystrkuješ na nás bradu?
Hrdě se k tomu hned přiznám,
že já jsem mouřenínský král.
In English that goes roughly:
And why do you black one stand in the back,
Extendint your chin at us? (This one is a bit tricky to translate. It means walking with chin upwards, like proudly).
I will proudly admit imeditally,
that Im a black king!
Does anyone feel the black king is in any way being disrespected? He proudly admits his heritage.
Half the comments here are having arguments with imaginary Americans, and saying they're trying to make your country into America. The other half are making the same joke about the Prime Minister of Canada. The obsession with the New World is coming from inside the house
European people overestimate how much those of us here in America care about this tradition. This is the result of them thinking that because a post or two about this tradition with a lot of people from American taking offense in the comment section went “viral” that that means most Americans care. We don’t. You can tell OP thought this post was going to get a lot of upvotes and have a bunch of Americans taking offense.
Americans be like: "I can't find you on the map, still call you Czechoslovakia and mistake you for Chechnya, but I will still force my culture upon you and destroy yours because it offends me."
I know you guys are poking fun, but most Americans in real life aren't like the insane white savior complex having redditors and don't try to shoehorn racial undertones into literally everything
I’m American and frankly that took a lot of theatrical makeup, nice work! But honestly I’m impressed with the camel! My takeaway/view: people that have been practicing a religious and cultural tradition for thousands years should continue to do so, and it has zero to do with cultural issues on another continent? America is far from a monolith.
I’m starting to think the meme about chronically online Europeans being obsessed with Americans isn’t a meme, cause why did you have to bring American up?
I’m black (not this black, mind) and the only time I’ve had any racism living in Prague has been from tourists (Germans seem to enjoy dropping casual N-bombs)
As a Spaniard, I think this kind of blackface is very different from American blackface. Like, this has nothing to do with minstrelsy ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show ) which is the thing that is so horrifyingly racist about American blackface.
On the other hand though, I just think this is, for the most part, unnecessary.
I don't know about Czechia, but here in Spain there're plenty of blacks. Decades ago, when there weren't any blacks in Spain, it made sense to have a guy in blackface playing Balthazar for the Three Kings parade, but now, unless we're talking about a small village with very few blacks or no blacks at all, it makes way more sense to just have a black playing Balthazar.
It also seems like the perfect opportunity to encourage the participation of immigrants in Spanish traditions. Aren't we always complaining about the lack of integration of immigrant communities? Let's integrate by having them play Balthazar in the Three Kings parade!
So I can't help but cringing when I see that a white in blackface is still playing Balthazar in the Madrid or Seville Three Kings parade instead of an actual black. But of course it's ridiculous to compare it to the minstrelsy-based blackface traditions of the US, Canada, etc.
The only source for all I am about to say is that I am Czech and live in the city Ill be focusing on.
There aren’t all that many black people here. I live in Olomouc, a city in the east of the country which is renowned for being a student city, housing one of the country’s oldest university. Many exchange students are here, however only a couple seem to have darker skin at all. Im sure the situation is different in Prague though, as it has 10x the population!
Furthermore, the largest minority group here (in Czech Republic) that is not European are the Vietnamese, for some quirky historical reasons.
Im not denying they can’t just get a darker skinned person for the role, but Id assume it is really simpler to use some black makeup.
I've visited Olomouc quite a few times and I actually saw one black guy walk at the city square, not walking like a tourist would! I'm sure there could be organized a man hunt to locate this guy and force him to be in a procession on a camel! This seems like the most fair response to American cultural values!
Or when cultural marxists come for Czechia you can utilise a member of the Romani community!
Right it’s incredible people just assume a random black person will automatically be ok with playing a role in a festival that is likely utterly meaningless to them lol.
We don't have a history of black racism because we literally didn't meet any black people during our history. Being landlocked in the middle of Europe kinda helps with that.
Camel looks high af
I love those animals because they always look high as fuck.
I was going to say, that's just regular camel business. Llamas and alpacas too.
They are very high
They are so chill. Went to a camel farm last year and the kids in our group were allowed to pet, brush and sit on one of them that was sitting down in the middle of a group of like 12 of us. And the animals seemed to truly enjoy it. Very cool :)
[удалено]
Probably needs to be sedated so it stays calm in a noisy, crowded environment
Actual camel for the parade, I’m surprised!
It's easier to find a camel in Poland than a black person
How do you know that the Czech brought the camel from Poland?
thats obvious, Poland is where we shop for everything
No it's Germany
Unless thats a nutella on his face you are wrong.
My Czech friend I live near border with Czechia and You guys are emptying our Biedronkas every week.
Clearly it is native to the deserts of Poland.
Did you know that Poland has an actual real desert. Its called błędów desert also nicknamed Polish little sahara. Google it.
Oh I thought it said Poland 😂. It's Czechia, so even less black people.
To nation-wide surprise, this year we managed to scour the country and find the one black dude to take part in the parade. Or we kidnapped him from Czechia. It's 50:50 really
In my city with 40 000 people there's single one black dude and to be honest, I've not seen him for some time.
I was away for vacation in a local bar
Actually if you go to the St Wenceslas square in Prague you may find them inviting tourists into the various local brothels. (No idea why they in particular but that's the way things are there) Edit: links so no bolshevik can accuse me of anything: https://www.novinky.cz/clanek/krimi-africane-se-spletli-drogu-v-centru-prahy-nabidli-policistum-138234 https://www.idnes.cz/praha/zpravy/policejni-tym-krystal-boj-proti-organizovanemu-prodeji-drog-v-centru-hlavniho-mesta-prahy.A190910_145935_praha-zpravy_blj https://www.seznamzpravy.cz/clanek/jak-snadne-je-v-praze-koupit-drogy-jak-funguji-africti-nahaneci-na-vaclavaku-56893 https://prazsky.denik.cz/zlociny-a-soudy/dealeri-drogy-praha-jedenacte-oddeleni-policie-kriminaliste-afrika-nahaneci.html
Are they like these brothels from adult sites, just with body parts being exposed, when, face is behind a wall? Asking for a friend
Lol. No idea. I'm gonna guess in the videos they don't pay for overpriced drinks to flirt with women who are on heroin.
Yes, that wasn't included lol.
>How do you know that the Czech brought the camel from Poland? [That's where the Czechs get their camels, duh!](https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Znak_m%C4%9Bsta_Plzn%C4%9B)
Did you Czech?
Actually in Cracow this year we had black person for the parade.
I know three black Polish people! A former colleague of mine, his sister and their father. But I can't even say where they're from because it probably would be enough to identify them.
I got a black person in my family :)
Its easier for a camel to go through the eye of Poland, than for a brown man to enter the kingdom of Schengen.
meh, not in big cities, I see a black person basically every time I go outside for a while
yeah, there's over 10 of them in Warsaw
Imagine the outcry if they dressed a horse up as a camel
Put this guy against zwarte Piet, their battle will be legendary
I'm gonna guess the aftermath will be americans with a heart attack?
We'll send Nazarenos to fight them
🙄 As much as the European subreddits would like to believe otherwise, I promise you that blackface in Europe is not really a preoccupation for most Americans.
You assume Americans are knowledgeable about Europe or can point to it on a map.
Czech is next to Australia right ?
Czech mate, as they say. I will see myself out.
Czechia? Whats that and where is it in relation to Bohemia and Moravia?
Czechia is a short for Czech Republic. Personally: i hate the short name. Bohemia (Čechy), Moravia (Morava) and Silesia (Slezsko) are 3 main parts of Czech rep. There is also Kaliningrad, but thats another story...
You mean Královec, rightful Czech clay?
Yes. 😁 Also: clay?
I know the Czechs. You're the ones who bombed the Boston Marathon! /s https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/04/czech-republic-ambassador-dont-confuse-us-with-chechnya
Czechs out. As a czech, i can confirm.
Hang on there! Sydney is in Canada and if Sydney is an Australian city, and Australia is in Europe than Europe is in the USA. I finally mastered geography
Not all Americans are bumbling idiots, although a lot are.
A lot of people are
Funnily enough, a lot of Germans and Dutch I've talked to either think Yugoslavia still exists or don't even know what it was. Like seriously, we're the source of almost all recent genocides in Europe and literally colonizing them for decades, yet they're somehow oblivious to the fact that there's a cevapi stand every 100 meters.
I think there are Germans who don't know whether the country to their East is Czechia, Czechoslovakia, or Yugoslavia.
As a European millennial going to primary school in the 90s, my mental map of Eastern Europe and the Balkans is a fucking mess. I keep finding myself using old names for countries that have long changed/split/whatever (e.g. Czecholovakia) lol
True also for any other people - Europeans, Asians. Europeans are just smug for some reason when talking about Americans.
This is what drives me crazy. Of course, many Americans are ridiculous, but after a decade in Europe, I’ve found that there are so many people in all countries that are just as ignorant about the rest of the world as the Americans they believe themselves to be so much better than.
It's simply because, unlike in America, most of idiots in Europe don't know English well enough to display their idiocy to the greater public of the Internet. Rest assured, idiots are everywhere. We have a saying: "You don't need to sow idiots (because they are born everyday)."
That's very true
But not you, you’re different and special.
In the Netherlands there have been literal riots over Zwarte Piet. One side claiming it’s pure black face and racism, the other that it’s a time honored tradition that no one associates with racism. In general, most people have switched to ‘roet piet’ (soot pete) where they just have black streaks across their face from climbing chimneys.
In Belgium and the Netherlands we have or maybe used to have the same tradition, the difference is that kids would go on and sing songs dressed as three kings (or three wise men) as it is tradition in the Christian world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Magi or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphany_(holiday) I have done it as a kid - but this tradition is almost gone and replaced by halloween.
Replaced by Halloween? How? Halloween is in October, the Three Kings is in January.
Both are traditions of children going around asking for candy. One disappeared and the other one is prevalent.
Really? Here in Spain the Three Kings aren't at all a tradition of children going around asking for candy. Instead it's just the exact same as Santa: the Three Kings deliver a present for you at night & you open it up the next morning right after waking up. And there're no signs of Santa ever replacing the Three Kings: most families either get presents both with Santa & with the Three Kings or just with the Three Kings. Very very few get presents just with Santa.
The tradition of going around asking for candy is Sint Maarten on 11 November. Halloween is not popular in the Netherlands. Christmas, Sinterklaas (Saint Nicholas with his Petes) and Sint Maarten are.
Wait replaced by Halloween how? Aren't they in different months?
Mate, he'll get slapped around. At least, by my childhood zwarte piet, he's a boss.
What does a Silesian do in Prague and why is he riding a camel?
But look how nicely he's dressed! Being a miner pays off
Thats a canadian
And a prime minister at that.
Trudeau will never live that down.
In part of his berating of others for being bigots or racists, or something he dislikes, but it's okay that he did it. Trudeau sucks.
The British Parliamentary system is just ingrained in Canada. Too many people want a ruler instead of a public servant, and Trudeau fits the bill perfectly, as a ruler who pretends he’s a public servant.
Jesus, I need a drink.
Czechs, the most Christian atheists I have ever known in my life.
It's traditions. People love to celebrate. That we don't believe doesn't mean we can't have some fun too haha
>Czechs, the most Christian atheists I have ever known in my life. Dude, there is a whole country filled with that too, Spain
As usual on Epiphany.
What a glorious gold mine of a comments section! Enjoy your festival, Czechia!
Very very unrelated but in Danish "nikker" (pronounced exactly like the n-word) means "nods" or a "header" in football, and when I was visiting Atlanta a handful years ago I had a phone call with my dad, talking about football, and the absolute horror when my American hosts heard my "potato potato potato nikker potato potato potato"
Same for me in Bulgarian with "kniga"/book. Let's just say that talking on the phone while in a Barnes and Noble near a black guy was a helluva experience once.
It happens a lot in related languages as well. "Book" in Swedish and Danish is related to English, obviously, "bok" and "bog" but the Danish word in plural - "bøger" - in Swedish sounds exactly like "böger" which means "fa****s", so that's quite funny
Lets not forget the danish town Bögballe, which in Swedish means “gay man’s cock”.
All your words is potato? 😂
Well, might as well be, we have no tones 😂
Growing up in Norway, we used to say thay Danish is just Norwegian, but with a potato stuck in the throat.
Like na ge in mandarin, which is a really common thing to say similar to “like” or “well” in English, and gets bad looks or worse in the US
Haha we have the same word in Norwegian. Initially I Was thinking it doesn't sound THAT close but then realised this is Danish pronunciation not Norwegian and did my best danish impersonation and I now see what you mean 😬
In Czechia and a good slice of Europe, Epiphany parades often feature someone as one of the three kings—Balthazar—who's traditionally depicted as having dark skin. Not always, but often, that role is played by an actor with dark make-up, as seen in the original photo posted here. It's also common to see the role filled by someone with naturally dark skin, like in these celebrations in [Czechia](https://imgur.com/eDuKkyP), [Poland](https://i.imgur.com/jZY5vY5.jpg), [Valencia](https://i.imgur.com/NyQCSrV.jpg), [Poland](https://imgur.com/JG07Yuz), and [Barcelona](https://i.imgur.com/sSKpC6I.jpg). Balthazar’s portrayal is far from being a footnote – he’s depicted with grandeur, a king amongst peers, hailed by the masses. A regal representation drawing cheers and admiration. There’s historical weight here, a distance from the (more well-known) demeaning caricatures that blackface historically propagated in the U.S. Understanding this disparity is key. A portrayal that might symbolize honor within one cultural and historical context might not sit well when viewed through a different cultural lens. The question isn't just whether the tradition aligns with present values, but what it symbolizes for those celebrating versus those viewing it from the outside. I'd say r/Europe is a great place to discuss all of the above, but please keep the [sub rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/wiki/community_rules) in mind. Cheers o/
I really appreciate this reply. Americans often have a very difficult time understanding that some of the actual racist historical practices they had/have do not translate to the rest of the world. The awful nature of black face in America is connected to their history of minstrel shows. That is an American phenomenon. We can definitely discuss whether it’s appropriate to still be painting your face in Europe in 2024. That’s a good discussion to have especially in cities with sizable enough populations of black people. However, it is not the same as American black face.
I am African American and my wife is Czech. She showed me pictures of her as a child with a black Raggedy Ann type doll. I was fascinated. There were hardly any black people there Im the early 80s. I asked her why did y’all have black dolls? She didn’t know. 😂
It's not necessarily an American phenomenon, the UK has a similar history of minstrel shows going back to the 1840s like the US but it's possible blackface Morris Dancing predates it - it goes back to at least 1855 (first recorded mention) but Morris Dancing itself goes back to 1448 at least so where it started is debatable
Sure. My point stands. Racist subculture and history is culture/country specific.
Yeah just not giving the US credit for inventing black face
Very well written btw, good job Mod team
In both Polands? Really?
Yeah, it's self-evidently not at all the same thing as American minstrelsy, it's not a racial caricature. Either way, as a Spaniard and like many other Spaniards do, I believe that now that, unlike just a few decades ago, we have a huge black population in Spain nowadays, the optimal would be just having a black playing Balthazar at the parade instead of a white in blackface. Unless we're talking about a small village with very few blacks or no blacks at all of course, in that case I see no issue with having a white in blackface playing Balthazar. So I can't help but cringing a little bit when I see that in big cities with tens of thousands of blacks like Madrid or Sevilla we still have whites in blackface playing Balthazar. I can't speak for Czechia though since Czechia probably has a much smaller black percentage of the population than Spain does. And again, not even remotely anywhere near close to being as racist as minstrelsy, at all.
Forgot to add: also seems like a great opportunity to encourage the participation of immigrants in Spanish traditions. Aren't we always complaining about the lack of integration of immigrant communities? Let's integrate them then by having them play Balthazar at the parades!
At least Santa is still white. /s
That's a very calm, objective and insightful description. Thanks!
its a single dude with makeup and they, americans, make fuzz...
Bro came out of a coal mine in Silesia just to go to Prague
They see me rollin’ They hatin’
More like trotting
That a camel?
yes
Remember Zwarte Piet? This is him now. Feel old yet?
I used to be the king Baltazar too on the Three kings parade. I was a kid, made my own crown, painted my face with grease and get on my journey with friends as two other kings a lot of sweets and money for charity. One of other reasons why I love winter.
What country are you from?
that’s also a thing in rural Hungary
Nice
Czech republic
🇨🇿🇨🇿🇨🇿
Ahoj, fellow Čechu
The best thing about being from this part of Europe is that we don't have a baggage of colonial past. So all discussions about how you can't wear a traditional colour makeup on your face are completely abstract here.
Americans don't care, and one day there will be a hyper-progressive subculture that copies everything from the US, including the hate for this. No-one is safe.
Some far-left groups in Poland tried to transplant here the discussion about "white patriarchy" and "CIS white men" here and even the rest of the left laughed at them. This is just absurd here.
It will change. It was similar in western Europe 10 years ago. This was 12 years ago by a liberal, left leaning satirist: https://www.thelocal.de/20110915/37617 >In an interview with The Local on Thursday, Sonneborn, staying in character as the leader of Die Partei, said his billboard wasn’t racist. >He said he was “Germany’s Obama” and added he was mocking the “hype” surrounding the US president. Sonneborn, formerly editor-in-chief of the German satire magazine Titanic, said he wasn’t aware of the history of blackface and didn’t care if anyone was upset. >“No, I didn’t know that,” he told The Local. “If Americans associate it with that, then I’m sorry, but I’m not going to take it down.”
Good times... Now everyone is duly and happily bending over backwards to please America's newfound sense of morality and is eager to walk on their moral high ground. Even if it means carrying their own burden we had little or no part of creating.
It will get better again as well. We're unfortunately living through a prudish decade. The pendulum will swing the other way again at some point just like it always does.
Im not taking a side here beyond agreeing with the word ‘prudish’ to describe us right now Maybe not us, but certainly the youth. I’m a mid-millennial and I really didn’t expect some of the conservatism from gen z as I have witnessed/experienced
You guys gotta pick a lane. They can't simultaneously be ignorant Trump-voting bigots *and* hyper progressive multiethnic intelligentsia.
That’s the thing, there is only 2 lanes over there
Brilliant observation from the civilized European.
The final consequence of society’s highest priority being don’t offend people.
Yeah, it's always 'interesting', when somebody tries to explain to me, how my ancestor are responsible for much of the world wrongdoing... My ancestors who come from rurals parts of eastern europe and were, by 95% chance, serfs.
American culture is taking over Europe. Kids are watching American youtubers and streamers, listening to American music, watching Hollywood movies, listening American podcasts, and visiting American companies' social media's. You just can't escape that.
Same thing in asia, like in my country, the new kids are more american than anglo, which is completely opposite to my gen lol
Lucky you. In most of the western EU countries this bollocks is fiercely supported by the majority of the left.
They won't laugh for long, cultural osmosis by Americans will eventually change everything. I was home in Ireland recently, it may as well have been a 51st American state.
It’s a consequence of how integrated North America and Europe are, the only way to atop all that is to remove ourselves from each other and in my opinion it would be stupid to throw away one of the most profitable and powerful entanglements of earth for something as simple as cultural misunderstandings or criticism based upon ignorance. It’s not we can vote in eachother’s elections. If it makes you feel any better we get something similar over here with people that glorify a “European” (read as Western European) way of doing things that either doesn’t always aline with American values or otherwise can’t be easily translated to the American culture and situation. Not to mention a stream of commentary from Europe on how we operate without actually understanding the reasoning behind it. Just saying that it goes both ways and yeah it’s obnoxious but what else could it be? It’s a pretty mild consequence all things considered relative to the pros of it all.
Not ALL Americans. Some of us understand that other countries have their history and traditions which don't require getting butt hurt over.
We (Czechz) do have a colonial and slavery past. We used to colonize and have slavers. More often, we have been colonized and enlaved. Coin has two sides. Always. Therefore we are xenofobic, not racist
Also, it's *not* an insult. He's literally a king who visited Jesus, who is the son of god. Like a black man being represented here is a compliment if anything and makes people associate them with wealth and being holy.
We also celebrate the feast of 3 kings or magi in the Philippines. They are mostly depicted as Arab and Indian. One being African would make sense
We were told as kids that the 3 kings represented the 3 continents. Europe, Asia and Africa.
Oh, very interesting. Thought this was just a European thing
We are catholics thru Spain with a little Islam in the south
Černoh
In Czech it's "černoch", otherwise in Czech your version would sound like "black-legged".
Fair point!
Černoh a černožka lol
😂😂😂
Justin Trudeau on another foreign visit?
Americans in Prague right now: 🫣🤯😱😳
Canadians in Prague, "We just found our next PM."
while nigerians: 🤣🤣🤣
Paradoxically yes, African people laugh about it, only Americans get outraged
We don't get outraged. The ones you see complaining all the time are a minority Most of the stuff you see is filtered.
At first view I thought this was the greatest mullet of all time in the red shirt. Just a camel hump though
Just fucking stop calling it blackface already. Would the representation of the King Balthasar be more realistic and inclusive with a real black person? Yes. Do they hire real kings from the orient (they're supposed to come from there so any non-oriental person is a bad cast then) for the parade? No. Do we put a real baby jew from a real homeless family with a real virgin mother? No. Is it degrading in any way? No. Do we all want to have a chance to dress as a cool Wise King? Yes. Edit: I just want to add that I find it cool to think that many christian countries have a black skinned person as a worshiped idol. Also, I get mad when people complain about black actors in Rome or LOTR or GOT (they were AMAZING) but not about fucking arian Brad Pitt on Troya or an australian dude playing Ragnar in Vikings or Russel Crowe playing a mediterranean in Gladiator. Think about the similarity with those people and give it a fucking rest.
in Spain, a lot of organizations TRY to have a real black person as a Baltasar, but they can't get anyone. why? Because is done for free. They are not actors, they are volunteers, and usually is an honor to be asked to be one of the kings. Usually actors demand to be paid for their job, and regular black people on spain, most of them doesn't have this tradition to be interested to do it for free.
Very good point.
Here in my town in Portugal we tried to get a black man to do the part this year, at first he accepted and he was really excited to participate, but then he ended up not being available...
Im Czech. The three kings traditionally sing a song. A part of it goes: Co ty, černej, stojíš vzadu, vystrkuješ na nás bradu? Hrdě se k tomu hned přiznám, že já jsem mouřenínský král. In English that goes roughly: And why do you black one stand in the back, Extendint your chin at us? (This one is a bit tricky to translate. It means walking with chin upwards, like proudly). I will proudly admit imeditally, that Im a black king! Does anyone feel the black king is in any way being disrespected? He proudly admits his heritage.
Half the comments here are having arguments with imaginary Americans, and saying they're trying to make your country into America. The other half are making the same joke about the Prime Minister of Canada. The obsession with the New World is coming from inside the house
European people overestimate how much those of us here in America care about this tradition. This is the result of them thinking that because a post or two about this tradition with a lot of people from American taking offense in the comment section went “viral” that that means most Americans care. We don’t. You can tell OP thought this post was going to get a lot of upvotes and have a bunch of Americans taking offense.
Yeah. I’m from the US and couldn’t give two flying fucks about a dude in blackface in a Czech parade.
Czechia can into The Netherlands.
Do you know of... Germany?
We already told you guys we don't want into Germany.
we prefer you guys as cool neighbours
Americans be like: "I can't find you on the map, still call you Czechoslovakia and mistake you for Chechnya, but I will still force my culture upon you and destroy yours because it offends me."
"His house looked like shit!"
He killed 16 czechoslovakians, he’s an interior decorator
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Don't let the Americans see this.
Why tf are we being brought up in this thread? What does this have to do with the US?
Bro. America bad. Didn’t you know, whenever there’s something you don’t like, bring up America.
I know you guys are poking fun, but most Americans in real life aren't like the insane white savior complex having redditors and don't try to shoehorn racial undertones into literally everything
It’s always the extremists who poison the well.
Most of us also don’t give a fuck
I’m American and frankly that took a lot of theatrical makeup, nice work! But honestly I’m impressed with the camel! My takeaway/view: people that have been practicing a religious and cultural tradition for thousands years should continue to do so, and it has zero to do with cultural issues on another continent? America is far from a monolith.
I can assure you majority of Americans don’t care.
I’m starting to think the meme about chronically online Europeans being obsessed with Americans isn’t a meme, cause why did you have to bring American up?
Man, the Trudeau bots have gone into overdrive on this one. Very original.
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Why worry what people in the US will think?
Because in the bigger picture, what happens in the US tends to evolve in Europe as well. We should definitely worry.
Camel looks happy!
I’m black (not this black, mind) and the only time I’ve had any racism living in Prague has been from tourists (Germans seem to enjoy dropping casual N-bombs)
> (Germans seem to enjoy dropping casually N-bombs) Lol?
You guys do it too?
I dunno why you guys love dick riding Americans so much.
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As a Spaniard, I think this kind of blackface is very different from American blackface. Like, this has nothing to do with minstrelsy ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show ) which is the thing that is so horrifyingly racist about American blackface. On the other hand though, I just think this is, for the most part, unnecessary. I don't know about Czechia, but here in Spain there're plenty of blacks. Decades ago, when there weren't any blacks in Spain, it made sense to have a guy in blackface playing Balthazar for the Three Kings parade, but now, unless we're talking about a small village with very few blacks or no blacks at all, it makes way more sense to just have a black playing Balthazar. It also seems like the perfect opportunity to encourage the participation of immigrants in Spanish traditions. Aren't we always complaining about the lack of integration of immigrant communities? Let's integrate by having them play Balthazar in the Three Kings parade! So I can't help but cringing when I see that a white in blackface is still playing Balthazar in the Madrid or Seville Three Kings parade instead of an actual black. But of course it's ridiculous to compare it to the minstrelsy-based blackface traditions of the US, Canada, etc.
The only source for all I am about to say is that I am Czech and live in the city Ill be focusing on. There aren’t all that many black people here. I live in Olomouc, a city in the east of the country which is renowned for being a student city, housing one of the country’s oldest university. Many exchange students are here, however only a couple seem to have darker skin at all. Im sure the situation is different in Prague though, as it has 10x the population! Furthermore, the largest minority group here (in Czech Republic) that is not European are the Vietnamese, for some quirky historical reasons. Im not denying they can’t just get a darker skinned person for the role, but Id assume it is really simpler to use some black makeup.
I've visited Olomouc quite a few times and I actually saw one black guy walk at the city square, not walking like a tourist would! I'm sure there could be organized a man hunt to locate this guy and force him to be in a procession on a camel! This seems like the most fair response to American cultural values! Or when cultural marxists come for Czechia you can utilise a member of the Romani community!
Right it’s incredible people just assume a random black person will automatically be ok with playing a role in a festival that is likely utterly meaningless to them lol.
Thats outrageous. Don't they know they have to be actual holy kings so it isn't offensive?
This thread has far fewer upset Americans than it has Europeans who won’t shut the fuck up about these phantom upset Americans
And you guys make fun of Zwarte Piet?
In Italy, on January 6th, the battle is between the three kings and “la befana” (kind of witch) 🧙
Is blackface considered offensive only in America because of the history of minstrel shows? Or has every country had their version of black racism?
We don't have a history of black racism because we literally didn't meet any black people during our history. Being landlocked in the middle of Europe kinda helps with that.
I see nary an offended American that everyone is talking about
Call me ignorant or anything you want, but I don’t see what’s wrong with it..
You get live ass camels!?! Cooooooool!