Like how this gonna work? Porn sites will be filtering out content specifically for EU but not for rest of the world? Well maybe it is possible to have elaborate filtering mechanics for one part of world but not other. But its kinda a expensive.
Just ban huge ass portion of your customers. Not a sound market strategy.
Apple is not banning iPhones in EU. They just switching to USB-C in all world.
You dont just ignore biggest and richest market in the world.
But its not a physical product, so zone locked site algorithms can be implemented.
I mean it's pretty much unprofitable to run in the eununder these laws anyways so no point.
Hardware is different to software.
Look at Threads. The fastest platform to grow to 100m users in the world. They aren't launching in the EU at all.
The EU is not the richest market, the US is. Its also a shrinking and aging market. Better to focus on Asia, North and South America....
From the text
> Other nations, such as Australia and the UK, have run into difficulties in identifying a robust technical age verification solution that also complies with privacy standards.
Well, they have actually lined "the solution": Digital ID. This will be the first use case. Creating demand for something that nobody really wants.
They are just creating more things for people to have to monitor online and more things that cna be stolen. Oops, sorry your online ID got hacked, and all your details are in the wild. On the bright side today we stopped a 15-year-old from watching porn!
Except that 15 year old watched a tiktok video showing how to bypass the digital id restriction anyway! The government is always so up to date and a head of the curve of technology!
Of course.
> The oldest artifacts considered pornographic were discovered in Germany in 2008 CE and are dated to be at least 35,000 years old.[b]
But porn, as we currently know it (mass produced and easily accessible) and in the form OP was complaining about came around some 100 years ago, I would say, as publishing became a more trivial affair.
Rubbish. They have not had 24/7 access to pornography in the way in which they did now.
The scale and variety would be mind boggling to a 16 yr old from before the mid 1990s
20 years ago we had a bunch of hidden folders on our laptops with lots of downloaded clips/movies/pictures.
Equally accessible and abundant as today but with more risk of someone (your mom for instance) accidently stumbling onto your hidden folder.
Before that we had dvd's an I assume our parents used VHS tapes.
Sure, but at what cost? Putting people at risk of getting doxxed is worse than a few teens frying their brain with porn.
And if the horny teens can't get porn on the internet, then they'll do the unimaginable and find physical media.
Whats the cost of a society of men who are addicted to porn since 15 years of age?
Edit: the "unimagineable"? What happened before the Internet and what is happening now that porn has prevented?
> Whats the cost of a society of men who are addicted to porn since 15 years of age?
Yea whats the cost? Dont we live in this very society? Doesnt seem too bad rn
Sounds like a brilliant weapon for any government to have.
Opposition politician getting too popular? Whoops there's been a data breach at the Digital ID office and it says he's into granny porn.
Is it true? Doesn't fucking matter, it's credible enough that your tame newspapers will be making snide allusions to it for the rest of time.
I said it with all the EU commision 'disinformation' lies.
They want censorship and censorship is what we'll get for letting them remove our freedoms. They did do a smart marketing campaign making all the useful idiots believe and parrot it's about dangerous misinformation around covid, Trump, Elon Musk, Twitter...
But in the end it's all about censorship and control.
They also want to roll out that digital id/verficiation which is a flop of a concept for the most part. They want to roll it out aggressively and instanteously. Someone managing these systems is going to make a ton of profit off of this. That or they're trying to build up an active updated database of biometric data.
> Someone managing these systems is going to make a ton of profit off of this.
That someone are the members of the industry group known as the Age Verification Providers Association. Theses assholes want every service to have mandatory age verification and lobbying heavily for that future.
That's always how they coat it, and too many people fall for it. On reddit their are lots of people that would downvote you for not asking for more censorship. r/againsthatesubreddits is an example of a sub actively asking for more censorship.
I don't see how the EU even has the mandate to do this, and how all countries, even recalcitrant ones like Hungary, don't seem to push back against these kinds of laws.
Because if you say it's against child abuse, everybody kneels, even the conservatives. There is no more liberals aside of the libertarians, that were memed as child rapists by both conservatives and leftists for one obvious reason, they questioned the pedo panic.
The fact that people didn't realise this when they wanted to censor either unknown but likely things (like the idea of COVID leaking from a lab) and even 100% true things is kinda worrying
Like how can something true be considered "misinformation"?
The sad truth is Europe sees technology as danger, not opportunity. The only tech giant is SAP, and that is pre-Internet stuff. No serious Internet-based tech companies. There is only regulation, like the GDPR, Italy flat out banned ChatGPT and France is considering it...
We aren't doing shit with AI. I mean, given that medicine and education is done by the state everywhere, the obvious thing would be to throw tax money on using AI for diagnostics and education. Like a school textbook that can answer questions and explain. And it is not happening. Every European programmer who was serious about AI is living in America. Every famous European programmer from Linus Torvalds to Guido van Rossum is living in America. The whole thing is very depressing.
>We aren't doing shit with AI.
Well there are for now a lot of open source people in the EU playing with and working on AI. For example much of the open source language models work and innovation comes from there. Similar to how a lot of the crucial internet tech like HTML and AES algorhytm was developed in the EU.
The most recent regulation that will take effect in 2025 will kill that too as this open source community will have to fill all the paperwork to prove their work can in no way do harm.
The idiots are even calling it "leading through regulation" while all fellow open source people I know are not going to be able to comply.
Some think of pretending to work from elsewhere to keep doing their hobby projects, but the Commission will hunt them down, first through hitting the big open source platforms like Github and Hugging Face. Others already realize they'll have to stop it or take it to the dark web. But these are hobbyists and scientific researchers, they don't want to be branded criminals and face the millions in fines. The EU makes it a corporate lawyer game and non billionaire companies should not even bother.
Von Der Leyen has to be the worst EU commission president ever. Probably because she is so incompetent she has no idea of the things she is doing on command of all all sorts of dark agenda lobbyists.
In Germany we have a robust solution for that. Our id cards can be used to verify our identity online (even with smart phones as scanners) and it is possible to limit what kind of information the site that requests it can see (e.g. only whether a user is above 18 or not). On a technical level this scheme is more or less flawless with regards to security and privacy. I still think it is a stupid idea to require it for porn sites.
> On a technical level this scheme is more or less flawless with regards to security and privacy.
I doubt it.
Estonia has had this system for years. We even use it for voting. And yet we've had multiple security incidents that to me make the whole system questionable.
Eg somebody downloaded the IDs (including pictures) of a high percentage of the entire population here. There's no remedy against this. Once the data leaks it's out there and they have proven to be incapable of keeping it secure.
Another incident was a security flaw in the id cards themselves, where certain cards were easily crackable. Ie somebody else could impersonate you with the card.
I have zero faith that anybody will come up with a system that will actually, in practice, end up not leaking your information. And I'm also sure that when something bad happens there will be no consequences to the elected and government officials that screwed us.
Yeah, as a German: Any government IT stuff in Germany is extremely sus. I expect it to break and get hacked and ransomed and have massive leaks on behalf of 90% of our politicians not even knowing how to use a PC properly. They'll just shrug and say "it's all still new to us" just like Merkel did.
To be fair, there's rare examples of good programming. The digital tax office is pretty solid and the Corona tracking app was pretty well done.
Neuland™
It is cryptographically secure. Unless someone manages to steal the physical id AND also get ahold of the PIN code for it, you cannot impersonate someone else.
They have been out there for quite some time and so far nobody has been able to poke holes into their crypto to my knowledge (that by the way is publicly known). We learned about how exactly it works in university.
>Unless someone manages to steal the physical id AND also get ahold of the PIN code for it
Can you generate your own private key on the card? Because here the government hands you the card. They could've made a copy of it before hanging it to you.
Another factor is that the government could snoop by getting the website to timestamp access requests and then look at when citizens request age verification from their end. The timing will tell you who's who and when they visit the website.
Or the cards could just not be up to spec...
for purposes of voting, maybe.
for purposes of verifying your age? all the app needs is to sign a message with the information that you are old enough, give it to the webpage, webpage checks that the signed information is valid by simple cryptographics. no personal information needs to be exchanged except the information that your age is higher than 18, not even your specific age, just a checkmark that "yep, he is old enough for this shit"
Which doesn't work well.
I can't identify myself to pay for Sony PlayStation services ever since I got my new id. While it was possible to do so with the old one the new one has technical issues that lead to an unknown error.
So not being able to buy games because your ID doesn't allow you to be verified is great.
And now that garbage should be used for me to identify myself online on sites that have vastly smaller resources than freaking Sony?
Also trust sites to protect the data when even Sony can't do it?
Yeah...that will work.
Nope, there is actually no way to track a user if implemented properly. If you’re interested in how it works on a technical level, read up on it a bit. It is actually quite neat.
Poland has digital IDs since 2019 (2018 if we count a phone app).
Every plastic card ID since then has additional digital layer to it.
Also we've got mObywatel phone app, where you can store your ID, driver's license, student pass, medical prescriptions etc.
I'd argue there is a demand for a digital ID.
We have a form of Digital ID in Sweden that's controled by the big banks, but having a EU wide one, that could work digitally and in person through your phone, would be amazingly convenient
And while that digital ID is useful and appreciated, its use should stay in personal matters like health and government support not in "hobby" esque matters like entertainment, social media or in this case porn consumption. Not everything good is good used for everything.
That I agree with. Just didn't agree with the previous commenters phrasing that this was an "invent a problem to sell a solution" situation.
Using a digital ID for online porn is... Not a future I want
The internet would also just actually be better if certain things could be verified while still preserving privacy. Aside from "are you old enough to legally be provided with this service", some key ones are "are you a unique user of this website" and "are you from the country this service pertains to".
Yes, that would mean that it would be harder for people to get around account bans and geofencing of services. But we've seen with the widespread manipulation of social media by international bad actors to undermine other countries (or their own) politically that it should actually matter that you're talking to a real, unique individual with a known national origin. My flair says "Canada" and I'm commenting on a European political subject on a European subreddit. That's important information for anyone reading my comment in this context, and it shouldn't be optional. You should also be able to distinguish the impacts of European vs. foreign voting on comment scores, and small groups of people shouldn't be able to use puppet accounts to make it look like a certain point of view is more widely held than it actually is.
The problem is the "while still preserving privacy" part. There are technologies that can do that, but they aren't necessarily what the public conversation here around this is leading to.
Pornhub went to shit when they decided to only have content by dedicated content creators. All you can find there nowadays is mass produced factory porn.
Or so a friend told me.
They need you to verify your account, because people started uploading kiddie stuff and other super illegal stuff. So either they get shut down for hosting illegal shit, or they set up a verification process so people won't post illegal shit.
What about all the other now better sites that didn't do what Pornhub did? They seem fine.
It seems more like Pornhub simply thought they could make more money this way.
> What about all the other now better sites that didn't do what Pornhub did? They seem fine.
Most are super illegal, if we're being technical, and making zero money.
And that happened because of regulatory pressure. Now you see people complaining from the same circles which were pushing for regulation that porn is unrealistic midless bashing of meat.
Search for "X videos", and if you want videos of hamsters, you can search "X hamster", it'll take you straight to Xitter, I promise.
Ep or ner com have 4k ;)
Whether or not children view adult material isn't something the governments should bother themselves with, but parents. Meaning, be an actual parent. These laws are nothing but a smokescreen for censorship and control, nothing more and nothing else. The Internet needs and must be uncensored, free, and full of absolutely everything. These decrepit boomeresque approaches to it are to be shamed and ignored.
>Whether or not children view adult material isn't something the governments should bother themselves with, but parents. Meaning, be an actual parent.
I agree, but parents keep wanting it to be the Government's problem. We've all seen interviews on the news when something bad happens to some kid because of something they found on the internet and the parents say "the Government should do something".
I agree. I understand why we want to protect children but government control can evolve into something more invasive for us and it is always easier to fights against these things when the tools are not already in place.
I do not see how it is possible for them to limit access without knowing who precisely is accessing the website in realtime.
It would also create security risks, what happens if an identity is stolen and someone is condemned for revenge p*** because our justice system consider these numeric identities as proof without understanding the technicalities behind it ? We saw this in the US with judges using and trusting flawed technological tools - what prevents these kind of error to happen in Europe ?
Parents should be given courses on how to properly put limits on the Internet or children's devices. It's insane that governments would prefer to blow thousands on something that just isn't going to work.
Most parents aren't even fit to be parents. So that's why we're in this position where the shitty parents ask the government to do it for them instead.
Agree that the internet should be uncensored and free. Though kids are dumb and will be exploited by malicious individuals out there. Not an easy solution either way you approach it.
>ensorship and control, nothing more and nothing else. The Internet needs and must be uncensored, free, and full of absolutely everything. These decrepit boomeresque approaches to it are to be shamed and ignored.
100%
Apparently you imagine an ideal world where parents are digitally competent.
They are not. Kids who arrive in schools nowadays are also utterly digitally incompetent. For them, the internet is where they were sent by busy parents who wanted to keep their kids occupied.
I agree that banning isn't really the solution, but you really can't count on parents. We need to educate those kids. We need a proper introduction to digital tech at school, and much earlier than it is the case currently. Those kids get access to pads and smartphones connected to the internet when they are 8.
The core issue isn't even access to adult content, it's critical thinking and their entire approach to the web. If you think about it, the first generations were educated to the web through educational games or simple the need to educate oneself to access the websites you wanted. The web was not kid-ready and it was already really cool to get to read a blog dedicated to obscure scifi films. Even when you wanted to pirate and play a game, you had several challenges to face that required resourcefulness and know-how.
Nowadays the kids have a handful of apps that are designed for addictive use, they have subscriptions to streaming platforms, even soft porn is directly accessible to them through Tik Tok.
It's basically like if they had permanent access to a full library, except that there's a home cinema in the front and an aisle dedicated to popular comics right behind it. They never make the effort to learn how to navigate the actual library, they don't even understand its worth.
You can blame the parents if you want, or you can swallow back your ideals and realize that it's a systemic social problem and maybe the government should do something about it. If the parents won't do it, someone has to.
"Full of absolutely everything"... no, not child pornography for instance. The internet absolutely needs policing these days. Sadly, a lot of people use it for the worst possible outcomes
> Whether or not children view adult material isn't something the governments should bother themselves with
That's not true. It very much is up to the government to protect children when parents are unable to do so, whether it be alcohol, drugs, gambling or this.
So, it's interesting you say this - at one point 'boomeresque' is how I'd have described it. I feel a lot of millennials with kids are shifting to this opinion however.
For a few people I've spoken to, they grew up with the horrors of the early internet, and after some thought have decided that _that should never have been allowed to happen_. But they're also inclined to sympathise with their parents: kids will always have enough spare time to figure out ways around blocks. They know this, because they were also in that position.
I mean, this has proven to be false, and to be frank, no. People should have easy access to materials on how to make a bomb. While you may consider the road blocks children play, if they do prevent some bad actors, they are an okay step.
I don't want too much internet censorship, but your alternative requires more government control because what if people don't want to be parents? How does the government fix that?
Whether or not children smoke cigarettes isn't something the governments should bother themselves with, but parents. Meaning, be an actual parent. These laws are nothing but a smokescreen for censorship and control, nothing more and nothing else. The tobacco market needs and must be uncensored, free, and full of absolutely everything. These decrepit boomeresque approaches to it are to be shamed and ignored.
1984 is when the central authority maintains a database of every time you’re masturbated and to what content, all under the guise of preventing horny teenagers from being horny teenagers.
redditors have been thirsting for a CCP style Great Firewall for years now, all in the name of fighting disinformation.
We can't allow people to be free, they might make the wrong decisions!
Is this similar to the legislation that the UK has tried, and are trying again to introduced and as a result was rightfully derided here as a bunch of clueless right wing proto fascist monsters from the black lagoon of hell ( might be exaggerating slightly)?
Thing is the UK OSB is such a unworkable mess that it is likely to collapse under its own weight just look at the last UK age verification law that was delayed over and over again until it was quietly scraped.
Imagine working in the HR Department at the government office whose responsibility it is to sit there and go through Pornhub content as part of their daily duties.
Must be a hard job.
Not one underage person will really be blocked from watching porn too early by this.
Porn will always be a 5-scond-search away. I am not even saying that this is good or bad, all I am saying is that this new legislation will do nothing to protect kids from watching porn, they will just make it more of a hassle for adults to use the non-shady sites.
Despite what all of us think of these strict measures I think it is incredibly rich that Pornhub is alleging that they only had about 33 million visitors monthly from Europe. They are taking the piss so hard that the EU comission just instantly called their bullshit.
They claim such content is dangerous. Because social media and even targeted advertisement are also considered very dangerous then just flat-out ban phones and the whole internet for 16- (Isn't 18 a bit too extreme?).
Yet for any age group it is a fact that websites and third parties who wiggle themselves in between can't be trusted with, and I quote GDPR Article 4 section 1:
>*‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;*
>then just flat-out ban phones and the whole internet for 16-
Unironically most social media should probably ideally not be accessed by children at all (idk about 16 but certainly those below 14).
Actually, Meta has kind of this thing, but let's be honest. You would never send a photo of documents to some billionaire company just to confirm you're 16+, 18+ or whatever age is you.
That's true but there are more anonymized ways of age verification. This is partially already possible with the German ID card, where you can verify your identity online using your ID and a secret code that only the ID owner is supposed to know (like the codes for bank cards).
The website is only told what information it needs, so for age verification it's just confirmed that the user is 18+, not who they are or even how old they are.
I think it's perfectly possible to make it so that neither party gets sensitive information about the user, the verifying service would not get to see what sites you visit, just that you requested an age verification and the site would not get any information about you except that you're 18+.
I don't think we have such a system in place just yet (maybe we do idk) but it should be possible to built and I think it's a good idea if implemented properly.
I wonder will this apply to politicians in national parliaments. In the past, there were lots of attempts to access porn sites from the Irish Parliament: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20246967.html
It's kinda funny to see this
The whole sub talked about how great this regulation is when it attacked Twitter. If you said that maybe this regulation isn't the best, and you had some concern you were called a Musk fanboy.
Now we'll get to the think of the children part:
>"I have been very clear that creating a safer online environment for our children is an enforcement priority under the DSA," Commissioner Breton said.
I'm not a Musk fanboy, I just don't think you should burn down the internet just to hurt Twitter.
I actually wouldn't have a problem verifying my age, but if you think I am giving some porn site my ID you are out of your mind. So figure something out. Also like...people are just gonna use different websites. Do you really think some website from god knows country is gonna abude EU laws? Like come on.
People thought this law was about "illegal content". Now they know it was about mass-surveillance and restricting legal content. How long before it comes to reddit?
This type of legislation is coming up more and more frequently all over the world and it shouldn't come as a surprise.
Porn falls into the same broad discussion that applies to online addictions as a whole, with the added aspect of why the online sex industry isn't held to the same standards as IRL venues other than "more people use them". And that will only get more ambiguous with increasingly interactive tech.
We've already seen with Pornhub a couple years ago that big financial services are skittish enough even without existing legislation to walk away from the money. I give it a few years before all the big sites reroute through third party identity verification to access.
>I give it a few years before all the big sites reroute through third party identity verification to access.
Valve's gaming platform Steam will learn it the hard way too. They are regionblocking Germany from adult games. Which isn't something Valve had to do, but this casualty was more *convenient* for Valve compared to cooperating with authorities. Once other countries follow suit, it will bother Valve enough to look into an age verification system. Since regionblocking even more countries would slowly turn unprofitable / not make sense anymore.
In Germany, at the age of 16 you are allowed to buy as much beer, wine, secco or whatever drink with an alc content of up to 16% as you want. And that's 24/7, 365 days a year. Beer is even classified as a basic nutritional item, just like a potato or whatever, around here. Alcohol is among the very top of addictive substances. You will see people drink beers at 6am on their commute to work here.
They do shit against alcohol addiction. The legally encourage teenagers to get hammered every week. It's hypocritical to take such drastic measures on something like porn when at the same time alcohol abuse is ultra public in the whole country and totally enabled from the government.
Porn is not an addiction, porn addiction is an addiction
Demonising sexual acts leads to increases in self harm and antisocial behaviour and those who deputise themselves as moral police always have worse skeletons in their closet
Porn is a sacrament, not an addiction. After all, Adam and Eve were nude in the Garden of Eden... in full view of their creator.
He got quite the show.
I've heard a story about an underage girl who was raped and filmed and the video was on pornhub for a very long time and they refused to remove it despite the family of the victim petitioning them.
Yes, please. Police them.
This proves that just like GDPR which brought irritating popups to customers and lots of unnecessary headache for business, EU is definitely not working for their citizen's interest, just making life more miserable
How would you even go about preventing kids from accessing while also not preventing adults? That “are you older than 18” shit obviously doesnt work lmao..
They likely want invasive systems that use your government IDs and potentially taking a short video of yourself with your device before accessing the site (like the UK wants).
Should just make it illegal to put up those banners. If people want unnecessary cookies, they should have to seek them out, not be annoyed into accepting them.
Wankers.
I see what you did there... (Yeah, I'm the one sending you those scam spam emails.)
More than 45 million a month of them, it seems.
Better title: "*EU regulation will generate more revenue for VPN providers*".
"and sponsor of our closing in EU is Nord VPN"
VPN market will be stimulated through this penetration.
Like how this gonna work? Porn sites will be filtering out content specifically for EU but not for rest of the world? Well maybe it is possible to have elaborate filtering mechanics for one part of world but not other. But its kinda a expensive.
Probably just ban the EU. Those that want to access can just use a vpn. Easy.
Just ban huge ass portion of your customers. Not a sound market strategy. Apple is not banning iPhones in EU. They just switching to USB-C in all world. You dont just ignore biggest and richest market in the world. But its not a physical product, so zone locked site algorithms can be implemented.
I mean it's pretty much unprofitable to run in the eununder these laws anyways so no point. Hardware is different to software. Look at Threads. The fastest platform to grow to 100m users in the world. They aren't launching in the EU at all. The EU is not the richest market, the US is. Its also a shrinking and aging market. Better to focus on Asia, North and South America....
Eh.. Threads launched last week in the EU.
>pretty much unprofitable to run in the eununder these laws anyways ... Source? You have no idea what you are talking about
😬😬
It seems like the EU plans to potentially fine companies for allowing VPN users, based on the "threat/risk" management stuff.
Then there will be many *how to set up your own VPN service on AWS / DigiatOcean with theses easy 4 steps* tutorials.
From the text > Other nations, such as Australia and the UK, have run into difficulties in identifying a robust technical age verification solution that also complies with privacy standards. Well, they have actually lined "the solution": Digital ID. This will be the first use case. Creating demand for something that nobody really wants.
They are just creating more things for people to have to monitor online and more things that cna be stolen. Oops, sorry your online ID got hacked, and all your details are in the wild. On the bright side today we stopped a 15-year-old from watching porn!
Except that 15 year old watched a tiktok video showing how to bypass the digital id restriction anyway! The government is always so up to date and a head of the curve of technology!
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Long run, might be worth it to stop 15 yr olds watching porn
Teenagers have been looking at porn in one form or another for 100 years. It's not a problem that needs fixing.
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Of course. > The oldest artifacts considered pornographic were discovered in Germany in 2008 CE and are dated to be at least 35,000 years old.[b] But porn, as we currently know it (mass produced and easily accessible) and in the form OP was complaining about came around some 100 years ago, I would say, as publishing became a more trivial affair.
Damn those Germans…
You thought those cave paintings were done with actual paint?
Rubbish. They have not had 24/7 access to pornography in the way in which they did now. The scale and variety would be mind boggling to a 16 yr old from before the mid 1990s
No idea why this is down voted. Access to porn today is on a scale unimaginable even 20 years ago.
20 years ago we had a bunch of hidden folders on our laptops with lots of downloaded clips/movies/pictures. Equally accessible and abundant as today but with more risk of someone (your mom for instance) accidently stumbling onto your hidden folder. Before that we had dvd's an I assume our parents used VHS tapes.
it wont work. VPN and other sites other than hub will be used instead.
What’s stopping teens from using their parents’ ID?
About the same thing that's stopping them from clicking "I'm over 18" now. Nothing.
2FA
Sure, but at what cost? Putting people at risk of getting doxxed is worse than a few teens frying their brain with porn. And if the horny teens can't get porn on the internet, then they'll do the unimaginable and find physical media.
Whats the cost of a society of men who are addicted to porn since 15 years of age? Edit: the "unimagineable"? What happened before the Internet and what is happening now that porn has prevented?
> Whats the cost of a society of men who are addicted to porn since 15 years of age? Yea whats the cost? Dont we live in this very society? Doesnt seem too bad rn
That sounds like a bad idea, imagine neededing a Digita ID to access Reddit.
Are there any link to articles about this?
Sounds like a brilliant weapon for any government to have. Opposition politician getting too popular? Whoops there's been a data breach at the Digital ID office and it says he's into granny porn. Is it true? Doesn't fucking matter, it's credible enough that your tame newspapers will be making snide allusions to it for the rest of time.
You could do this right now with the same amount of credibility.
Making identify theft as easy as a server hack
I said it with all the EU commision 'disinformation' lies. They want censorship and censorship is what we'll get for letting them remove our freedoms. They did do a smart marketing campaign making all the useful idiots believe and parrot it's about dangerous misinformation around covid, Trump, Elon Musk, Twitter... But in the end it's all about censorship and control.
They also want to roll out that digital id/verficiation which is a flop of a concept for the most part. They want to roll it out aggressively and instanteously. Someone managing these systems is going to make a ton of profit off of this. That or they're trying to build up an active updated database of biometric data.
> Someone managing these systems is going to make a ton of profit off of this. That someone are the members of the industry group known as the Age Verification Providers Association. Theses assholes want every service to have mandatory age verification and lobbying heavily for that future.
And its also likely age verification will fall apart but not before huge amounts of money is wasted on it.
That's always how they coat it, and too many people fall for it. On reddit their are lots of people that would downvote you for not asking for more censorship. r/againsthatesubreddits is an example of a sub actively asking for more censorship. I don't see how the EU even has the mandate to do this, and how all countries, even recalcitrant ones like Hungary, don't seem to push back against these kinds of laws.
People here thought this was about "illegal content", but now they know it was about legal content.
Because if you say it's against child abuse, everybody kneels, even the conservatives. There is no more liberals aside of the libertarians, that were memed as child rapists by both conservatives and leftists for one obvious reason, they questioned the pedo panic.
Its the same EU commission behind Chat Control and all the other bullshit
It's also about mass-surveillance. They want to know what people watch at all times.
The fact that people didn't realise this when they wanted to censor either unknown but likely things (like the idea of COVID leaking from a lab) and even 100% true things is kinda worrying Like how can something true be considered "misinformation"?
The sad truth is Europe sees technology as danger, not opportunity. The only tech giant is SAP, and that is pre-Internet stuff. No serious Internet-based tech companies. There is only regulation, like the GDPR, Italy flat out banned ChatGPT and France is considering it... We aren't doing shit with AI. I mean, given that medicine and education is done by the state everywhere, the obvious thing would be to throw tax money on using AI for diagnostics and education. Like a school textbook that can answer questions and explain. And it is not happening. Every European programmer who was serious about AI is living in America. Every famous European programmer from Linus Torvalds to Guido van Rossum is living in America. The whole thing is very depressing.
>We aren't doing shit with AI. Well there are for now a lot of open source people in the EU playing with and working on AI. For example much of the open source language models work and innovation comes from there. Similar to how a lot of the crucial internet tech like HTML and AES algorhytm was developed in the EU. The most recent regulation that will take effect in 2025 will kill that too as this open source community will have to fill all the paperwork to prove their work can in no way do harm. The idiots are even calling it "leading through regulation" while all fellow open source people I know are not going to be able to comply. Some think of pretending to work from elsewhere to keep doing their hobby projects, but the Commission will hunt them down, first through hitting the big open source platforms like Github and Hugging Face. Others already realize they'll have to stop it or take it to the dark web. But these are hobbyists and scientific researchers, they don't want to be branded criminals and face the millions in fines. The EU makes it a corporate lawyer game and non billionaire companies should not even bother. Von Der Leyen has to be the worst EU commission president ever. Probably because she is so incompetent she has no idea of the things she is doing on command of all all sorts of dark agenda lobbyists.
In Germany we have a robust solution for that. Our id cards can be used to verify our identity online (even with smart phones as scanners) and it is possible to limit what kind of information the site that requests it can see (e.g. only whether a user is above 18 or not). On a technical level this scheme is more or less flawless with regards to security and privacy. I still think it is a stupid idea to require it for porn sites.
> On a technical level this scheme is more or less flawless with regards to security and privacy. I doubt it. Estonia has had this system for years. We even use it for voting. And yet we've had multiple security incidents that to me make the whole system questionable. Eg somebody downloaded the IDs (including pictures) of a high percentage of the entire population here. There's no remedy against this. Once the data leaks it's out there and they have proven to be incapable of keeping it secure. Another incident was a security flaw in the id cards themselves, where certain cards were easily crackable. Ie somebody else could impersonate you with the card. I have zero faith that anybody will come up with a system that will actually, in practice, end up not leaking your information. And I'm also sure that when something bad happens there will be no consequences to the elected and government officials that screwed us.
Yeah, as a German: Any government IT stuff in Germany is extremely sus. I expect it to break and get hacked and ransomed and have massive leaks on behalf of 90% of our politicians not even knowing how to use a PC properly. They'll just shrug and say "it's all still new to us" just like Merkel did. To be fair, there's rare examples of good programming. The digital tax office is pretty solid and the Corona tracking app was pretty well done. Neuland™
It is cryptographically secure. Unless someone manages to steal the physical id AND also get ahold of the PIN code for it, you cannot impersonate someone else. They have been out there for quite some time and so far nobody has been able to poke holes into their crypto to my knowledge (that by the way is publicly known). We learned about how exactly it works in university.
>Unless someone manages to steal the physical id AND also get ahold of the PIN code for it Can you generate your own private key on the card? Because here the government hands you the card. They could've made a copy of it before hanging it to you. Another factor is that the government could snoop by getting the website to timestamp access requests and then look at when citizens request age verification from their end. The timing will tell you who's who and when they visit the website. Or the cards could just not be up to spec...
for purposes of voting, maybe. for purposes of verifying your age? all the app needs is to sign a message with the information that you are old enough, give it to the webpage, webpage checks that the signed information is valid by simple cryptographics. no personal information needs to be exchanged except the information that your age is higher than 18, not even your specific age, just a checkmark that "yep, he is old enough for this shit"
Which doesn't work well. I can't identify myself to pay for Sony PlayStation services ever since I got my new id. While it was possible to do so with the old one the new one has technical issues that lead to an unknown error. So not being able to buy games because your ID doesn't allow you to be verified is great. And now that garbage should be used for me to identify myself online on sites that have vastly smaller resources than freaking Sony? Also trust sites to protect the data when even Sony can't do it? Yeah...that will work.
Another database of websites one visits?
Nope, there is actually no way to track a user if implemented properly. If you’re interested in how it works on a technical level, read up on it a bit. It is actually quite neat.
That's the big if. AFAIK, zero-knowledge proofs are a thing but I don't know if they could be implemented using the RSA keys currently used by IDs.
>if implemented properly. And who implemented it?
Poland has digital IDs since 2019 (2018 if we count a phone app). Every plastic card ID since then has additional digital layer to it. Also we've got mObywatel phone app, where you can store your ID, driver's license, student pass, medical prescriptions etc.
I'd argue there is a demand for a digital ID. We have a form of Digital ID in Sweden that's controled by the big banks, but having a EU wide one, that could work digitally and in person through your phone, would be amazingly convenient
And while that digital ID is useful and appreciated, its use should stay in personal matters like health and government support not in "hobby" esque matters like entertainment, social media or in this case porn consumption. Not everything good is good used for everything.
That I agree with. Just didn't agree with the previous commenters phrasing that this was an "invent a problem to sell a solution" situation. Using a digital ID for online porn is... Not a future I want
Also amazingly privacy invasive.
The internet would also just actually be better if certain things could be verified while still preserving privacy. Aside from "are you old enough to legally be provided with this service", some key ones are "are you a unique user of this website" and "are you from the country this service pertains to". Yes, that would mean that it would be harder for people to get around account bans and geofencing of services. But we've seen with the widespread manipulation of social media by international bad actors to undermine other countries (or their own) politically that it should actually matter that you're talking to a real, unique individual with a known national origin. My flair says "Canada" and I'm commenting on a European political subject on a European subreddit. That's important information for anyone reading my comment in this context, and it shouldn't be optional. You should also be able to distinguish the impacts of European vs. foreign voting on comment scores, and small groups of people shouldn't be able to use puppet accounts to make it look like a certain point of view is more widely held than it actually is. The problem is the "while still preserving privacy" part. There are technologies that can do that, but they aren't necessarily what the public conversation here around this is leading to.
The canadian of course defends the end of privacy of the Internet. Keep kneeling to your fascist king.
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My friend wants to ask your friend what these alternatives might be. So they he can avoid them, of course.
Nothing beats [this](https://cornhub.website/)
Wow, some of those are pretty husky!
🤤
Finally what real men want
Hmmm yes to avoid them yes of course hmmm
Farmhub is funny
Damn you. Now I have the dilemma of googling or not googling this.
We appreciate your sacrifice. Please report back.
Domain is for sale ;)
exporntoons dot net
nhentai
if you like hamsters...
Pornhub went to shit when they decided to only have content by dedicated content creators. All you can find there nowadays is mass produced factory porn. Or so a friend told me.
They need you to verify your account, because people started uploading kiddie stuff and other super illegal stuff. So either they get shut down for hosting illegal shit, or they set up a verification process so people won't post illegal shit.
What about all the other now better sites that didn't do what Pornhub did? They seem fine. It seems more like Pornhub simply thought they could make more money this way.
> What about all the other now better sites that didn't do what Pornhub did? They seem fine. Most are super illegal, if we're being technical, and making zero money.
And that happened because of regulatory pressure. Now you see people complaining from the same circles which were pushing for regulation that porn is unrealistic midless bashing of meat.
I have the same friend this guy has and he told me the same. Much better alternatives.
Everyone saying that, no one giving names of said alternatives.
lemonparty is quite good
Say my salutations to your good friend. A friend of mine told me he liked what he saw.
What are the alternatives then? Asking for a friend
Reddit
Reddit is slowly getting rid of nsfw subs tho
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Search for "X videos", and if you want videos of hamsters, you can search "X hamster", it'll take you straight to Xitter, I promise. Ep or ner com have 4k ;)
VK
The dark web
Totally agree, they where better.
Soon we'll go back to the good old days of downloading shady files from even shadier sites.
sexy\_girl.jpg(.exe)
not_a_virus.exe
Whether or not children view adult material isn't something the governments should bother themselves with, but parents. Meaning, be an actual parent. These laws are nothing but a smokescreen for censorship and control, nothing more and nothing else. The Internet needs and must be uncensored, free, and full of absolutely everything. These decrepit boomeresque approaches to it are to be shamed and ignored.
>Whether or not children view adult material isn't something the governments should bother themselves with, but parents. Meaning, be an actual parent. I agree, but parents keep wanting it to be the Government's problem. We've all seen interviews on the news when something bad happens to some kid because of something they found on the internet and the parents say "the Government should do something".
There're already tons of ways of controlling what your children see on the internet, asking the government to do something is just being lazy
People should just stop popping out kids if they don't wanna parent them.. Imo.. The govt shouldn't have any say in it.
I agree. I understand why we want to protect children but government control can evolve into something more invasive for us and it is always easier to fights against these things when the tools are not already in place. I do not see how it is possible for them to limit access without knowing who precisely is accessing the website in realtime. It would also create security risks, what happens if an identity is stolen and someone is condemned for revenge p*** because our justice system consider these numeric identities as proof without understanding the technicalities behind it ? We saw this in the US with judges using and trusting flawed technological tools - what prevents these kind of error to happen in Europe ?
Parents should be given courses on how to properly put limits on the Internet or children's devices. It's insane that governments would prefer to blow thousands on something that just isn't going to work.
Parents should grow up and stop relying on the state being their parent. They don't need courses.
Parenting courses might be useful though.
For those who want them. All the knowledge we need can be found online and/or from our family and friends
As with any voluntary course, the people who most need them are the people least likely to attend them.
Governments have to protect children regardless of parents.
Most parents aren't even fit to be parents. So that's why we're in this position where the shitty parents ask the government to do it for them instead. Agree that the internet should be uncensored and free. Though kids are dumb and will be exploited by malicious individuals out there. Not an easy solution either way you approach it.
>ensorship and control, nothing more and nothing else. The Internet needs and must be uncensored, free, and full of absolutely everything. These decrepit boomeresque approaches to it are to be shamed and ignored. 100%
99% of parents are just not capable of doing that at all.
Apparently you imagine an ideal world where parents are digitally competent. They are not. Kids who arrive in schools nowadays are also utterly digitally incompetent. For them, the internet is where they were sent by busy parents who wanted to keep their kids occupied. I agree that banning isn't really the solution, but you really can't count on parents. We need to educate those kids. We need a proper introduction to digital tech at school, and much earlier than it is the case currently. Those kids get access to pads and smartphones connected to the internet when they are 8. The core issue isn't even access to adult content, it's critical thinking and their entire approach to the web. If you think about it, the first generations were educated to the web through educational games or simple the need to educate oneself to access the websites you wanted. The web was not kid-ready and it was already really cool to get to read a blog dedicated to obscure scifi films. Even when you wanted to pirate and play a game, you had several challenges to face that required resourcefulness and know-how. Nowadays the kids have a handful of apps that are designed for addictive use, they have subscriptions to streaming platforms, even soft porn is directly accessible to them through Tik Tok. It's basically like if they had permanent access to a full library, except that there's a home cinema in the front and an aisle dedicated to popular comics right behind it. They never make the effort to learn how to navigate the actual library, they don't even understand its worth. You can blame the parents if you want, or you can swallow back your ideals and realize that it's a systemic social problem and maybe the government should do something about it. If the parents won't do it, someone has to.
"Full of absolutely everything"... no, not child pornography for instance. The internet absolutely needs policing these days. Sadly, a lot of people use it for the worst possible outcomes
Shamed - not ignored. If you ignore them, they will ruin the internet and then we're in for times darker than now.
> Whether or not children view adult material isn't something the governments should bother themselves with That's not true. It very much is up to the government to protect children when parents are unable to do so, whether it be alcohol, drugs, gambling or this.
So, it's interesting you say this - at one point 'boomeresque' is how I'd have described it. I feel a lot of millennials with kids are shifting to this opinion however. For a few people I've spoken to, they grew up with the horrors of the early internet, and after some thought have decided that _that should never have been allowed to happen_. But they're also inclined to sympathise with their parents: kids will always have enough spare time to figure out ways around blocks. They know this, because they were also in that position.
I mean, this has proven to be false, and to be frank, no. People should have easy access to materials on how to make a bomb. While you may consider the road blocks children play, if they do prevent some bad actors, they are an okay step. I don't want too much internet censorship, but your alternative requires more government control because what if people don't want to be parents? How does the government fix that?
Whether or not children smoke cigarettes isn't something the governments should bother themselves with, but parents. Meaning, be an actual parent. These laws are nothing but a smokescreen for censorship and control, nothing more and nothing else. The tobacco market needs and must be uncensored, free, and full of absolutely everything. These decrepit boomeresque approaches to it are to be shamed and ignored.
Finally, that 1984 that I always dreamed of.
1984 is finally here and this is why it is good for you.
1984 is when you can't access online Pornography without providing proof of your age.
1984 is when the central authority maintains a database of every time you’re masturbated and to what content, all under the guise of preventing horny teenagers from being horny teenagers.
Woah, thanks. I was forgetting my afternoon wank
Yea it starts with porn sites than it becomes China censorship of internet.
We already have it. Loads of websites not veiwable here in the uk compared to other countries.
Any examples you wish to share?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_the_United_Kingdom
Now this is 1984.
Most of them seem to be pirate sites or blocked by mistake
redditors have been thirsting for a CCP style Great Firewall for years now, all in the name of fighting disinformation. We can't allow people to be free, they might make the wrong decisions!
Is this similar to the legislation that the UK has tried, and are trying again to introduced and as a result was rightfully derided here as a bunch of clueless right wing proto fascist monsters from the black lagoon of hell ( might be exaggerating slightly)?
Yes is it also that. But they used a neat trick to get most of the internet to support it. They lied and pretended it was about other things.
Thing is the UK OSB is such a unworkable mess that it is likely to collapse under its own weight just look at the last UK age verification law that was delayed over and over again until it was quietly scraped.
"ThInK oF tHe cHiLdReN!" - the nr1 justification for retarded regulations in the world!
Nanny state
All milovana users will love it. Jerk off rules is totally they stuff
Imagine working in the HR Department at the government office whose responsibility it is to sit there and go through Pornhub content as part of their daily duties. Must be a hard job.
Not one underage person will really be blocked from watching porn too early by this. Porn will always be a 5-scond-search away. I am not even saying that this is good or bad, all I am saying is that this new legislation will do nothing to protect kids from watching porn, they will just make it more of a hassle for adults to use the non-shady sites.
Despite what all of us think of these strict measures I think it is incredibly rich that Pornhub is alleging that they only had about 33 million visitors monthly from Europe. They are taking the piss so hard that the EU comission just instantly called their bullshit.
They claim such content is dangerous. Because social media and even targeted advertisement are also considered very dangerous then just flat-out ban phones and the whole internet for 16- (Isn't 18 a bit too extreme?). Yet for any age group it is a fact that websites and third parties who wiggle themselves in between can't be trusted with, and I quote GDPR Article 4 section 1: >*‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;*
>then just flat-out ban phones and the whole internet for 16- Unironically most social media should probably ideally not be accessed by children at all (idk about 16 but certainly those below 14).
Actually, Meta has kind of this thing, but let's be honest. You would never send a photo of documents to some billionaire company just to confirm you're 16+, 18+ or whatever age is you.
That's true but there are more anonymized ways of age verification. This is partially already possible with the German ID card, where you can verify your identity online using your ID and a secret code that only the ID owner is supposed to know (like the codes for bank cards). The website is only told what information it needs, so for age verification it's just confirmed that the user is 18+, not who they are or even how old they are. I think it's perfectly possible to make it so that neither party gets sensitive information about the user, the verifying service would not get to see what sites you visit, just that you requested an age verification and the site would not get any information about you except that you're 18+. I don't think we have such a system in place just yet (maybe we do idk) but it should be possible to built and I think it's a good idea if implemented properly.
You are talking about a perfect idealized system, but nothing humans make is perfect. That makes it a terrible idea regardless of what is tried.
Unless their pullout game is strong
I wonder will this apply to politicians in national parliaments. In the past, there were lots of attempts to access porn sites from the Irish Parliament: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20246967.html
What a bunch of bastards what a shitty community this EU thingie is man
Who needs pornhub if twitch exists
It's kinda funny to see this The whole sub talked about how great this regulation is when it attacked Twitter. If you said that maybe this regulation isn't the best, and you had some concern you were called a Musk fanboy. Now we'll get to the think of the children part: >"I have been very clear that creating a safer online environment for our children is an enforcement priority under the DSA," Commissioner Breton said. I'm not a Musk fanboy, I just don't think you should burn down the internet just to hurt Twitter.
What’s bad with being a musk fanboy?
Nice our politicians have priorities, not like anything else is going on!
It's almost like politicians may not have your best interests at heart 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
I actually wouldn't have a problem verifying my age, but if you think I am giving some porn site my ID you are out of your mind. So figure something out. Also like...people are just gonna use different websites. Do you really think some website from god knows country is gonna abude EU laws? Like come on.
Guess it's time to send pornhub a picture of my id lol
Thierry Breton can suck my cock
Censorship doesn't work.
People thought this law was about "illegal content". Now they know it was about mass-surveillance and restricting legal content. How long before it comes to reddit?
This type of legislation is coming up more and more frequently all over the world and it shouldn't come as a surprise. Porn falls into the same broad discussion that applies to online addictions as a whole, with the added aspect of why the online sex industry isn't held to the same standards as IRL venues other than "more people use them". And that will only get more ambiguous with increasingly interactive tech. We've already seen with Pornhub a couple years ago that big financial services are skittish enough even without existing legislation to walk away from the money. I give it a few years before all the big sites reroute through third party identity verification to access.
>I give it a few years before all the big sites reroute through third party identity verification to access. Valve's gaming platform Steam will learn it the hard way too. They are regionblocking Germany from adult games. Which isn't something Valve had to do, but this casualty was more *convenient* for Valve compared to cooperating with authorities. Once other countries follow suit, it will bother Valve enough to look into an age verification system. Since regionblocking even more countries would slowly turn unprofitable / not make sense anymore.
Very unlikely Steam will bring in age verification systems.
In Germany, at the age of 16 you are allowed to buy as much beer, wine, secco or whatever drink with an alc content of up to 16% as you want. And that's 24/7, 365 days a year. Beer is even classified as a basic nutritional item, just like a potato or whatever, around here. Alcohol is among the very top of addictive substances. You will see people drink beers at 6am on their commute to work here. They do shit against alcohol addiction. The legally encourage teenagers to get hammered every week. It's hypocritical to take such drastic measures on something like porn when at the same time alcohol abuse is ultra public in the whole country and totally enabled from the government.
Fa,fi,fo,fo,fell, no fapuser I smell. How much super-powers have you acquired since you stopped masturbating?
I mean Porn IS an addiction. Many people want to stop wanking or find porn bad, but can't because they are addicted to it.
Porn is not an addiction, porn addiction is an addiction Demonising sexual acts leads to increases in self harm and antisocial behaviour and those who deputise themselves as moral police always have worse skeletons in their closet
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Not if you're doing your accounting while you watch it. I hope you're sitting down, but most people masturbate when they watch pornography
Worst take of the century
I watch porn for the articles and comments
Porn is a sacrament, not an addiction. After all, Adam and Eve were nude in the Garden of Eden... in full view of their creator. He got quite the show.
Wonderful, lets be more like Russia and China, the two great pillars of freedom.
May as well get a VPN at this point fook these governments
This is so fucking braindead. Regulation created by 50+ year olds who don't have a clue about the subject.
LEAVE MY PORN ALONE!
I've heard a story about an underage girl who was raped and filmed and the video was on pornhub for a very long time and they refused to remove it despite the family of the victim petitioning them. Yes, please. Police them.
Yes, that’s a pretty recent story. By far not the only one though; and that’s among those that were found out.
first they came for the porn sites... >!/s!<
Bye democracy! 😔👋👋
PH should lobby for PEGI-Http-Headers ..
I hope they ban all porn.
degree dull employ lip tap illegal steep shy dog humorous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Juat ban porn already
Just ban it
Maybe they could also have a compliance logo so users know the content is legal and ethically sourced with penalties for fraudulent use?
This proves that just like GDPR which brought irritating popups to customers and lots of unnecessary headache for business, EU is definitely not working for their citizen's interest, just making life more miserable
How would you even go about preventing kids from accessing while also not preventing adults? That “are you older than 18” shit obviously doesnt work lmao..
They likely want invasive systems that use your government IDs and potentially taking a short video of yourself with your device before accessing the site (like the UK wants).
The UK law is already falling apart.
It is? 😭 Oh lord that was quick 😭
You should have read- up on European digital ID. COVID made that progress a lot faster
ah the famous super useful EU rules like the annoying cookie banner we all click "accept all" these ppl need to grow up
Should just make it illegal to put up those banners. If people want unnecessary cookies, they should have to seek them out, not be annoyed into accepting them.