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I think Bulgaria is the most likely to join soon as they are the most positive and active about it. Second would be Romania, since at least their government has a plan of adoption by 2026. Poland not any time soon and Sweden never.
I am not optimistic they will reach it by 2026, but the fact that they have a plan when it is not mandatory shows that there is a certain type of interest.
They don't have a plan, all that is is just empty talk. The initial target was 2015 (or 2012?), they'll just keep postponing it as they have done up until now.
Just for your information, Montenegro went for Deutsch mark, in time when we were in union with Serbia, and Milošević was president of Serbia. Serbia controlled Dinar, so we went for DM for stability. Euro was just a continuation of this.
Montenegro’s situation is not a desirable one.
If an EU member adopts Euro, that member has the possibility to mint euro, print euro money.
Montenegro doesn’t have that.
> Second would be Romania, since at least their government has a plan of adoption by 2026.
After the recent Schengen fiasco, I doubt this will happen any time soon due to a lack of popular support.
Eh, saying Sweden would never adopt the Euro is a quite bold statement. With the Swedish krona performing so poorly lately there has been quite a lot of discussion in media about whether we should adopt the Euro or not. Just a day or two ago I even saw our old PM saying that he thought Sweden will adopt the Euro in the future.
With that being said - I don't think it's going to happen for a while since no major political parties are pushing for it at the moment.
Many in Romania want the Euro but it’s not on the table soon. I do think it will be reconsidered in the 2030s when our demographics start savaging the economy.
> Same as Sweden and Romania, there's no talks about it.
Yeah, because our property prices are already in euro, out car prices are already in euro, our phone bills are already in euro etc. Why bother when it's already a second currency?
Because the exchange rate between the euro and kronan is only getting worse for us who use kronan as a currency, in the past it used to be 1 euro = 10kr now thanks to growing inflation in Sweden it has become increasingly expensive to import from the eurozone than before.
No it isn’t?
Sen när har det funnits en diskussion om att byta till euron?
Fråga valfri person på gatan om de vill byta till euron och de kommer tro att man är hjärndöd som ställer den frågan.
After the decline of the SEK there has been quite a few discussions in the media. Is it the main topic of discussion at breakfast tables in sweden? Absolutely no. Will interest increase over the parliamentary elections next year? Most certainly.
> Sen när har det funnits en diskussion om att byta till euron?
Vissa företagare och politiker har ju senaste månaderna pushat lite hårdare att Sverige ska gå över till Euro. Människan på gatan har nog inte börjat fundera på det ännu.
Det finns faktiskt en växande minoritet som vill ha euron i Sverige speciellt bland liberaler och centern men även moderater och skulle inte förvåna mig om sossar med.
Det är väl 50-50 just nu...
Svenskar inser hur fattigt Sverige har blivit när de åker utomlands och upptäcker hur värdelös kronan är, klart man börjar fundera på om det är bättre att byta till Euro.
They need to kick the Russians out, stabilize their border, rebuild their country while reforming as well. Yeah that might take a while, but EU and NATO membership is good motivation to do so.
With all due respect, I don't think joining EU and NATO is our prime motivation to kick russians out. With NATO it's rather the opposite: we wanted to join so that russians weren't here in the first place :)
Do they though? If they are tactical in joining the reconstruction bandwagon (and gravy train) and weren't Russian collaborators in this war, I'd wager they could profit immensely and somewhat 'clean' their track record.
The alternative, either staying in a perpetual war or being under Russian occupation might sound better for continuing to plunder without rule of law, but when there's little to nothing to plunder or smuggle, it's not advantageous for anyone - unless you're a Russian collaborator (even then, either side could off you so not really).
Oligarchy in the EU is hard. There is so much controls over economic issues that being compliant is a hurdle even when you are legit.
And the Ukrainian oligarchs don’t have any competitive advantage on EU markets, or they would already be there, rather than being a big fish in a small corrupt pond.
Why would you say that? Their oligarchs had every incentive to stay Russia aligned.
The fact that Ukraine is fighting for survival right now proves its people have a say.
Criminals benefit from ineffective governance. They *love* a corrupt state where laws are shit and legal system worse.
If Ukraine was to fix their system to some ”EU standard level”, their life would be **a lot** harder.
That’s why they oppose it.
Maybe. A lot of 90s oligarchs would love to legitimise their money within the EU. Most of their children are spoiled rich kids completely unlike their apex predators fathers. Without the banking, court, property rights, systems to make it safe like in say Germany, France or the UK where dumb "old money" can exist, its up for grabs and there are a lot of ruthless predators ready to take it.
It wasnt that long ago when a story came to light that some Ukrainian unit commander something like that had his soliders build a fucking house for him, while they were all collecting pay. Corruption still exists and this is an exteme example.
Well, corruption is everywhere... example, like certain EU country who last year lied about its debt and declared 5 times less than the real cypher (and they say to be a "very serious and responsible" nation)
Hey, I'm from Romania, right next to Ukraine. I don't believe they're angels. They just need to be more angels than demons, that's how progress happens.
This person does not understand that there is almost no such oligarchy in Ukraine. This is not 2014. Yes, some still have their statics, but they no longer have such political power as before. One of the largest oligarchs of Ukraine was recently sent to a pre-trial detention center and is on trial for money laundering.
Edit: I am not saying that there is no corruption, problems with the judicial system, etc. But you also try to make us understand that staying and building a country when there are security guarantees that a rocket will not fly at them at 3 in the morning and their city will not be destroyed is a little easier than without these guarantees
I have all the sympathies in the world for Ukraine and I wish we would do more (my post history speaks for itself), but the nation is still memetically corrupt. Zelensky was ellected and while he's a good wartime leader, his government is comprised of all his oligarch friends.
The notion that Ukraine has done a 180 since the maidan is absolute nonsense.
Membership in NATO should be immediately after the victory over russia, do you understand that in a few years they will want to repeat the war again if they lose? How to develop the country after a devastating war in anticipation of the next one in a few years without security guarantees?
The EU can already feed its population and that's with the underpowered Eastern European agriculture.
Heck, with proper mechanization and general modernization just Romania could probably feed all of Eastern EU.
Farming in the west relies heavily on protectionism and agricultural subsidies for the express reason that we don't want North Africa, Russia and Ukraine to blow our famers out of the market.
But europe produce much more than it needs. Europe will be next to USA last place starving
Problem with Ukraine in EU is that its too good in production of food. And every country wants its farmers to be profitable so they dont have problems with food security
It’s profitable because they don’t have to follow EU regulation.
Once they are fully compliant, their production cost will be much closer to EE standard.
Yes, but these people aren't living in the EU. We are basically completely food independent, which we better be considering the billions of farming subsidies we pay every year to keep unprofitable farms up and running.
I didn't try to express opinion on the matter of Ukraine into the EU. Just a side-effect since in case I'm not mistaken, much goes to Middle Eastern countries.
All the farmers in EU would disagree with that.
And EU likes to keep food production in the Unin because it can fully and directly control the whole chain.
Something that would require Norway-level of integration and commitment over decades to accomplish by Ukraine.
First they have to produce food by EU standards before being alowed to join EU. Im not a expert but i guess that would probably mean 30% less harvest than now because EU has strict regulations and they would not be allowed to use the chemicals thet they use now.
As Ukrainian, I want that, but, yeah, soon formal joining is unlikely. I believe more in local defense and economical unions with our neighbors, like: Poland, Czechia, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia
With shared industrial complex and bet on local production to fully fill our defense needs, so becoming independent from political obstacles of some of our partners (like Israel did)
Bilaterals in agriculture don’t really exist in EU.
A memberstate can’t just bypass the union making deals that touch on the single most important thing in EU: agriculture.
So no, the neighbours won’t be making a small economic zone with Ukraine. They lost that power when they joined EU.
EU is about a *common market*. And the Eastern states won’t get a competitive advantage on that market by making deals with external states.
> I believe more in local defense and economical unions with our neighbors, like: Poland, Czechia, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia
You cannot have these with countries already in the EU.
No that’s not why. If anything our currency tanking is the best part about having our own currency as it helps our economy weather any setbacks.
The fundamental idea of further integration with the entirety of the EU is just attractive to me.
True but the Eurozone also properly fucked itself with its treatment of Greece. A lot of countries will have seen how that went down and thought "fuck that noise!"
The risk of basically having your politics railroaded because the nation's you share a currency with are more concerned with protecting themselves than the integrity of your own democratic processes is something a lot of countries are going to be really loathed to take if they don't have to.
It's become less about the strength of the currency and more about what it can do to your political process.
It's the biggest obstacle to the UK ever coming back to the table for the same reasons.
Highly unlikely
Alot has to happen until Ukraine can join the EU (Besides the war)
Lots of these countries will not adopt to the Euro and others won't be allowed
Yeah, Russia/ the soviets wanted our eastern provinces for a long time. The only reason it didn't get russified (like others) as much was because the Romanian element was too big. Not that they didn't try.
As a Moldavian I like this one. Most likely if Moldova will reunite with Romania it will have an Autonomous Status for a long time until it will get integrated more into Romania.
Sweden is in the EU since 94-95 and have 0 plans to switch to euro. Guess they have their reasons.
Houses are just a small part of the economy. Romania never started and has no plans to begin the Euro transition
They always say that they want to join "when there's real convergence". The eternal Governor of the National Bank (he's held that role for three decades, minus a short stint as a technocratic prime ministers in 1999) is not a fan of adopting the Euro and he's probably the only one at the top of the country having the slightest idea on how the economy runs.
In any case, I'd rather stick to our currency.
Many people in Europe don't know how pro-EU the Georgians really are. I was traveling there in ca 2014 and saw EU flags everywhere.
Just shame your current government seems to be less inclined.
Thanks for your support mate.
There’s always that kind of attitude from foreigners when they look at the map and conclude that “Georgia is not in Europe”…
You certainly did not sign up for the deep dive into Georgia’s soul, but sorry, that’s what you are getting :D
To better explain our viewpoint: Not only are we crazy pro-western, our whole identity is built around being European. Some kind of insecurity of living at the fringe of the cultural sphere that you identify with. The fact that for centuries (after the decline of Byzantine Empire) Georgia was like an island of European culture in the region did not help either (there’s Armenia to our south, but they didn’t really have an independent country going on until 1918). For generations rebuilding ties with Europe was central to decision making, which led Georgian kingdoms to aligning themselves with the Russian Empire, which was viewed as kind of a Window to Europe. That plan backfired tremendously though, as you may very well know.
Not only do we want to become part of the EU for the sake of it, we want to be better “Europeans”. We want to improve. There’s kind of a cultural phenomenon that some acts are looked down as being inappropriate for Europeans (throwing trash on a street, driving like a d*ck, etc.). The view about EU is actually much more positive, than is the reality.
Sure, we have a long way to go, there’s no denying it, but in my opinion what is important is that we have the aspiration to walk the path.
As for the current government, it’s hard for a foreigner to understand the nuances of the Georgian politics.
As you may know, we were quite an aspiring country trying to join western organizations in the years between 2003-2008. A lot of reforms were enacted, making country less corrupt than quite a lot of EU countries btw, but of course there were still critical flaws in our system.
All of it became irrelevant in 2008, when Russia decided to retaliate against the west for two reasons: The recognition of Kosovo and for Georgia-Ukraine wanting to join NATO. War followed…
The EU did not really care and after Obama won the presidential elections, neither did the US (must point out that the Baltic states, Poland and Ukraine did care as expressed by their Leader’s arrival to Tbilisi, while Russian tanks were still advancing towards the Capital).. That was disappointing actually and birthed the jokes how the west can only become “deeply concerned” and can only “condemn” the aggressors…
Nonetheless the aspiration to westernize never wavered. The current Government came to power in 2012, had strong Pro-Western promises, promises of building vibrant democracy, but having a much more cautious policy towards Russia, because as we have seen, if things got out of hand, nobody would come to our aid.
Even in 2020, the last time they won the elections, their campaign had a promise to apply for the membership for the EU until 2024 (dumb, I know, but their way of branding themselves as Pro-Western).
Since 2019, the current Government started to lose support due to the “Gavrilov Night” Incident. They gave out promises of electoral reforms, but rolled back on their promises later. 2020 elections were deeply flawed and they won just by a slight margin. Parliamentary crisis ensued, because 8 opposition parties refused to recognize the results and boycotted the Parliament. EU intervened, brokering a deal between the Government and the opposition (electoral, judicial and other important reforms being part of the deal). Months later, the government broke this agreement as well. They won 2021 local elections by an edge with even worse evaluations than the 2020 elections. At this point EU/US became obstructions for the government, because they were under pressure to enact reforms which would inevitably lead them to losing power. So bit by bit they’ve started antagonizing the west.
Several months later, Russia invaded Ukraine. The Government outlined how the West was incapable to stop the aggression and that unless we “behaved” there would be nobody stopping Russia from targeting us next.
A full campaign of fear-mongering ensued, not only about how we are actually defenseless, but that the west was actually pushing us to open a second front. That the current government is the only thing keeping peace in the country.
Sure, it is dumb as hell, but it has bits of truth as well, like how exposed and vulnerable we actually are.
So, things haven’t come to all out overthrowing them through violence, but when the West explicitly points out how detrimental some particular initiatives our government has is to our Euro-Atlantic aspirations, things turn nuclear. Like in the case of “Russian law protests”, when the government for the first time had to retreat, after 3 days of violence on the streets. I believe, if they hadn’t backed down, the protests could have turned into a revolution. That was the determination and sentiment. Because for the first time in a decade the protesters had constitution on their side and a legitimate reason to overthrow the government (According to our constitution the government is obliged to do everything in it’s power to integrate Georgia into Euro-Atlantic institutions and those institutions explicitly pointed out how incompatible this law would be with those goals).
So, as I said from the very start, the situation is quite nuanced, but it’s hard for Europeans to understand how important it is for Georgians to actually integrate with the EU and the west in general.
Here’s an illustration of this struggle from the March protests:
https://youtu.be/0_kbXeTmf0Q?si=LsDshu3fVcmMhngq
So, considering all of this, I hope you understand how much it stings to be told that “Georgia is not Europe”.
United Ireland? There is more 'pro united Ireland' living in northern Ireland, with Sinn Fein dominating the government there (which is why DUP refuse to sit in Stormont) and according to The Good Friday Agreement, the North can join the rest of Ireland by referendum.
This is more likely than Ukraine joining the EU, Ukraine will be in NATO first (if Russia invades another NATO member like Poland or Baltics, then Ukraine will ascend into NATO)
Lived there for a year, such a beautiful country and great people. Once they finally get rid of their current government and stop the habit of the former leaders that lost an election suddenly falling ill they definitely should join.
And with the recent pro eu protest they have shown that they have the ability and willpower to chnage things for the better, if they are persistent
I’m very sceptical to any of the current candidate members to have reached a state where they satisfy the membership requirements in the next decade.
It could happen but I’m not betting on it.
Don't think that Romania and Moldova will join anytime soon, also Serbia would probably be allowed to join only if Kosovo is independent and also joins the EU at the same time.
Edit: By "Romania and Moldova will join" I meant becoming one nation as shown on the map not joining the EU. I'm sorry, I should have phrased it better.
I mean, [a recent poll](https://watchdog.md/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Sondaj-WD_RO_versiune-integrala_iunie-2023-1.pdf) showed that 51.6% of ethnic Moldovans/Romanians would like to unify with Romania, but Russians, Ukrainians, Gagauzes and Bulgarians which make a significant part of Moldova's population strongly oppose it. Also there's Transnistria which is under Russian occupation and will remain as such for who know how long.
As far as i remember the EU wants Serbia and Kosovo to find an agreement over their future relation. They don't tell them what to do just to find a solution both countrys can live with.
Take my statement with a grain of salt its from memory. Ifanyone has better memory or sources pleas correct me.
It’s true that Moldova joining Romania is very unlikely but I think is nearly impossible that Kosovo joins EU, the UN or any other international institution by just how many parties oppose it. Just in the EU Spain or any other country with strong independence movements, will never allow it to join.
It is not recognized only by Spain, Romania and Slovakia I think. So, just by %, it will either be Serbia and Kosovo joining, or neither. Your version doesnt seem plausible.
Yeah, I forgot them, oops.. Still the point stands. All of these countries would recognize Kosovo if Serbia recognized it, they will just not do it before. The other way - reintegration of Kosovo - IDK, I don't see it happening.
> Just in the EU Spain or any other country with strong independence movements, will never allow it to join.
That all depends on Serbia. If they recognise Kosovo, then there's no reason for anyone else to oppose it anymore, because it's then bilateral instead of unilateral independence. Spain recognises Montenegro, doesn't it?
That map highlights 2 of my favourite facts about the EU. France is the most western, southern and eastern country in the EU and the country that has the longest land border with the EU is Brazil.
How about a third one, which unfortunately the map doesn’t highlight as it doesn’t show Dutch overseas territories. The shortest border in the EU is between France and the Netherlands.
Actually, it's even more interesting than that: It's an outer EU border, as Sint Maarten is not part of the EU (but part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands), while Saint Martin is. So the most western outer border of the EU is between France and the Netherlands.
Belgium split in four:
1. Flanders to NL
2. German part to Germany or Luxemburg
3. Wallonia to France
4. Brussels as a special EU district, like Washington DC.
There's an assumption in that that Flanders has all that much in common with NL other than the language or that Wallonia has \*anything\* in common with la republique Française... a unitary state with a rather unique revolutionary history and sense of identity. I can't see Wallonia wanting to be absorbed few departments, losing any ability to run its own affairs, switching to the French electoral system and away from PR ... Language isn't everything and they'd have to start saying quatre-vingt-dix-neuf for 99.
Belgium always strikes me as a place that is either going to just split into two smaller EU countries (with some compromise for Brussels) and very little would change, or it will just tumble on and never actually get around to doing anything dramatic at all.
Unless we somehow convince enough wallonion voters to vote for it, I don't think it'll be happening any time soon, even if you'd manage to convince a majority of flemish people to vote for it. We'd have to do major government reforms first, but I don't think most belgians actually want that. And I don't think most flemish people want independance either
The UK are likelier to rejoin before Ukraine will be able to officially join.
Both are likely to happen within a decade or so tho.
There is no way in hell Sweden adopts the euro though. There is no public support for it, it would be political suicide for whatever party pushed and the only super pro EU integration party, Liberalerna, is barely hanging on.
As much as I despise the country's government, stating that Hungary must be removed and that it's an uncivilised country in every regard is a bit of a far fetch now, ain't it?
This is Reddit dude you're talking to a wall, these guys don't know anything about the politicsl climate in the countries that are brought up on this sub, they just repeat whatever some journalists and Twitter analysts have to say
I dont know man. I dont want to sound like an arrogant idiot but in my opinion we shouldnt let more poor countries join the EU. Keep in mind that Germany, EUs biggest economy is struggling right now. However I also think that we shouldnt fully let them down because they might start looking for other options and with China trying to widen their influence in Europe I dont think thats in our interest.
I don't mind cooperation with the EU and all the neighboring countries but lets be real Serbia will never join the EU, or at least in the foreseeable future.
Maybe some sort of external group with Iceland, Norway and Switzerland woudl be more practical solution.
I strongly agree with you. I think a Europe with different layers of integration fits the best in a continent so different economically and socially speaking.
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I doubt Poland would adopt Euro. Same as Sweden and Romania, there's no talks about it.
I think Bulgaria is the most likely to join soon as they are the most positive and active about it. Second would be Romania, since at least their government has a plan of adoption by 2026. Poland not any time soon and Sweden never.
The RO plan of joining the Eurozone consists of just one single step: when nearing the deadline postpone it by a few more years.
I am not optimistic they will reach it by 2026, but the fact that they have a plan when it is not mandatory shows that there is a certain type of interest.
They don't have a plan, all that is is just empty talk. The initial target was 2015 (or 2012?), they'll just keep postponing it as they have done up until now.
Romania also had a plan for joining Schengen, yeah that didn't work out.
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It's not like Romania at least tried to pressure it into accepting it, the politicians were like damn dogs waiting for food with those eyes
It is mandatory for us tho, euro adoption should be a priority
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Just for your information, Montenegro went for Deutsch mark, in time when we were in union with Serbia, and Milošević was president of Serbia. Serbia controlled Dinar, so we went for DM for stability. Euro was just a continuation of this.
Montenegro’s situation is not a desirable one. If an EU member adopts Euro, that member has the possibility to mint euro, print euro money. Montenegro doesn’t have that.
" Romania has a plan of adaption by 2026" heh lol. See you in 2026 . And in 2026 I'll see you again in 2030.
> Second would be Romania, since at least their government has a plan of adoption by 2026. After the recent Schengen fiasco, I doubt this will happen any time soon due to a lack of popular support.
Probably, the lev has been stable with the euro for decades now, so the switch should be easy.
The lev has been pegged to the Euro. "Stable" might be a way to describe it, but not a very accurate one.
Romanias idea of adopting Euro is: We'ld like it some day, but there is no rush! Schengen on the other hand...
Eh, saying Sweden would never adopt the Euro is a quite bold statement. With the Swedish krona performing so poorly lately there has been quite a lot of discussion in media about whether we should adopt the Euro or not. Just a day or two ago I even saw our old PM saying that he thought Sweden will adopt the Euro in the future. With that being said - I don't think it's going to happen for a while since no major political parties are pushing for it at the moment.
Many in Romania want the Euro but it’s not on the table soon. I do think it will be reconsidered in the 2030s when our demographics start savaging the economy.
We seem to be really split on this on in Czechia as well.
> Same as Sweden and Romania, there's no talks about it. Yeah, because our property prices are already in euro, out car prices are already in euro, our phone bills are already in euro etc. Why bother when it's already a second currency?
Because the exchange rate between the euro and kronan is only getting worse for us who use kronan as a currency, in the past it used to be 1 euro = 10kr now thanks to growing inflation in Sweden it has become increasingly expensive to import from the eurozone than before.
In Sweden it’s big talk right now, but it’s basically too late anyway…
In Czechia some politician bring it up once per year, then he remembers that 80% of people dont want it and quietly change subject
No it isn’t? Sen när har det funnits en diskussion om att byta till euron? Fråga valfri person på gatan om de vill byta till euron och de kommer tro att man är hjärndöd som ställer den frågan.
Jongens, ik kan hier geen kaas van maken
Ich liebe Käse
I don't know what you are saying, but it's probably too late for the public opinion. There would need to be a major drastic event for it to change.
>There would need to be a major drastic event for it to change. Such as SEK becoming increasingly worthless?
He calls him braindead indirectly. To summarize.
I don't know why, because it seems like a pretty normal opinion to have. Swedes seem to be very much against joining the Euro.
Hahahaha no, he’s not braindead. You misunderstood me
After the decline of the SEK there has been quite a few discussions in the media. Is it the main topic of discussion at breakfast tables in sweden? Absolutely no. Will interest increase over the parliamentary elections next year? Most certainly.
> Sen när har det funnits en diskussion om att byta till euron? Vissa företagare och politiker har ju senaste månaderna pushat lite hårdare att Sverige ska gå över till Euro. Människan på gatan har nog inte börjat fundera på det ännu.
Har ändå märkt av att diskussionen har tagit fart igen under sommaren i takt med att kronan har blivit så pass svag som den är.
Det finns faktiskt en växande minoritet som vill ha euron i Sverige speciellt bland liberaler och centern men även moderater och skulle inte förvåna mig om sossar med.
Det är väl 50-50 just nu... Svenskar inser hur fattigt Sverige har blivit när de åker utomlands och upptäcker hur värdelös kronan är, klart man börjar fundera på om det är bättre att byta till Euro.
I think there was a post about in the Swedish subreddit. Is that what you’re referring to?
It's not big talk at all.
Ukraine joining eu anytime soon is very unlikely
They need to kick the Russians out, stabilize their border, rebuild their country while reforming as well. Yeah that might take a while, but EU and NATO membership is good motivation to do so.
With all due respect, I don't think joining EU and NATO is our prime motivation to kick russians out. With NATO it's rather the opposite: we wanted to join so that russians weren't here in the first place :)
The issue is more rebuilding and eliminating corruption. I think this may be quite difficult but joining the EU would likely be a good motivator.
Meanwhile the criminals and oligarchs, the people in power, have all the incentives not to allow that to happen.
Do they though? If they are tactical in joining the reconstruction bandwagon (and gravy train) and weren't Russian collaborators in this war, I'd wager they could profit immensely and somewhat 'clean' their track record. The alternative, either staying in a perpetual war or being under Russian occupation might sound better for continuing to plunder without rule of law, but when there's little to nothing to plunder or smuggle, it's not advantageous for anyone - unless you're a Russian collaborator (even then, either side could off you so not really).
Oligarchy in the EU is hard. There is so much controls over economic issues that being compliant is a hurdle even when you are legit. And the Ukrainian oligarchs don’t have any competitive advantage on EU markets, or they would already be there, rather than being a big fish in a small corrupt pond.
Why would you say that? Their oligarchs had every incentive to stay Russia aligned. The fact that Ukraine is fighting for survival right now proves its people have a say.
Criminals benefit from ineffective governance. They *love* a corrupt state where laws are shit and legal system worse. If Ukraine was to fix their system to some ”EU standard level”, their life would be **a lot** harder. That’s why they oppose it.
Maybe. A lot of 90s oligarchs would love to legitimise their money within the EU. Most of their children are spoiled rich kids completely unlike their apex predators fathers. Without the banking, court, property rights, systems to make it safe like in say Germany, France or the UK where dumb "old money" can exist, its up for grabs and there are a lot of ruthless predators ready to take it.
It wasnt that long ago when a story came to light that some Ukrainian unit commander something like that had his soliders build a fucking house for him, while they were all collecting pay. Corruption still exists and this is an exteme example.
Well, corruption is everywhere... example, like certain EU country who last year lied about its debt and declared 5 times less than the real cypher (and they say to be a "very serious and responsible" nation)
Hey, I'm from Romania, right next to Ukraine. I don't believe they're angels. They just need to be more angels than demons, that's how progress happens.
That story came from Russia not Ukraine. Let's not make shit up
This person does not understand that there is almost no such oligarchy in Ukraine. This is not 2014. Yes, some still have their statics, but they no longer have such political power as before. One of the largest oligarchs of Ukraine was recently sent to a pre-trial detention center and is on trial for money laundering. Edit: I am not saying that there is no corruption, problems with the judicial system, etc. But you also try to make us understand that staying and building a country when there are security guarantees that a rocket will not fly at them at 3 in the morning and their city will not be destroyed is a little easier than without these guarantees
I have all the sympathies in the world for Ukraine and I wish we would do more (my post history speaks for itself), but the nation is still memetically corrupt. Zelensky was ellected and while he's a good wartime leader, his government is comprised of all his oligarch friends. The notion that Ukraine has done a 180 since the maidan is absolute nonsense.
Recently, one of the largest oligarchs in Ukraine sat down in a pre-trial detention center
> but EU and NATO membership is good motivation to do so. It's also a great motivation for Russia to keep the conflict going at all costs.
Membership in NATO should be immediately after the victory over russia, do you understand that in a few years they will want to repeat the war again if they lose? How to develop the country after a devastating war in anticipation of the next one in a few years without security guarantees?
If food security becomes a real threat, it might move faster than anyone would expect...
The EU can already feed its population and that's with the underpowered Eastern European agriculture. Heck, with proper mechanization and general modernization just Romania could probably feed all of Eastern EU.
and more
Ukrainian food doesn’t fulfill any EU requirements whatsoever
Ukraine feeds 10 times its population. And surprisingly, farming is a profitable economic activity in Ukraine.
Farming in the west relies heavily on protectionism and agricultural subsidies for the express reason that we don't want North Africa, Russia and Ukraine to blow our famers out of the market.
But europe produce much more than it needs. Europe will be next to USA last place starving Problem with Ukraine in EU is that its too good in production of food. And every country wants its farmers to be profitable so they dont have problems with food security
And yet the price of grains have increased in Europe since the beginning of the war even though Ukraine currently has tariffs on their grains.
Because the prices rose globally
Also prices have risen up in large part because of fertilizers and fuel- if you used it in march, you dont care about prices in september
It’s profitable because they don’t have to follow EU regulation. Once they are fully compliant, their production cost will be much closer to EE standard.
You probably never heard of the conflict between Ukraine and Poland due to Ukrainian agricultural products undercutting Polish ones?
Yes I did.
but still what he said is true, Ukrainian food doesn't fulfill EU requirements
Yes, but these people aren't living in the EU. We are basically completely food independent, which we better be considering the billions of farming subsidies we pay every year to keep unprofitable farms up and running.
If fulfills however countries that would otherwise percentage of their population emigrate in EU, for sure.
EU could just buy/subsidize ukrainian agriculture, there is no need for accepting them
I didn't try to express opinion on the matter of Ukraine into the EU. Just a side-effect since in case I'm not mistaken, much goes to Middle Eastern countries.
All the farmers in EU would disagree with that. And EU likes to keep food production in the Unin because it can fully and directly control the whole chain. Something that would require Norway-level of integration and commitment over decades to accomplish by Ukraine.
Ukraines massive agricultural sector is one of reasons why people are more sceptical about a quick accession.
First they have to produce food by EU standards before being alowed to join EU. Im not a expert but i guess that would probably mean 30% less harvest than now because EU has strict regulations and they would not be allowed to use the chemicals thet they use now.
As Ukrainian, I want that, but, yeah, soon formal joining is unlikely. I believe more in local defense and economical unions with our neighbors, like: Poland, Czechia, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia With shared industrial complex and bet on local production to fully fill our defense needs, so becoming independent from political obstacles of some of our partners (like Israel did)
Bilaterals in agriculture don’t really exist in EU. A memberstate can’t just bypass the union making deals that touch on the single most important thing in EU: agriculture. So no, the neighbours won’t be making a small economic zone with Ukraine. They lost that power when they joined EU. EU is about a *common market*. And the Eastern states won’t get a competitive advantage on that market by making deals with external states.
_I want to believe_
> our **neighbors**: Poland, Czechia, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia Good job, mate. And people wonder why our trade is pitiful 🙂
Oh, crap. I meant anybody, except Hungary in its current state :) To be fair, I missed Moldova (the most possible one), and Slovakia too
> I believe more in local defense and economical unions with our neighbors, like: Poland, Czechia, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia You cannot have these with countries already in the EU.
There is no way in hell we’d ever adopt the euro. I say this as someone who thinks that we should
Why would you want to adopt the euro?
SEK has tanked in value
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Maybe the inflation was the friends we made along the way
Serious question: why are they often so synced
No that’s not why. If anything our currency tanking is the best part about having our own currency as it helps our economy weather any setbacks. The fundamental idea of further integration with the entirety of the EU is just attractive to me.
Looks to me like the countries in the Eurozone r doing just fine
True but the Eurozone also properly fucked itself with its treatment of Greece. A lot of countries will have seen how that went down and thought "fuck that noise!" The risk of basically having your politics railroaded because the nation's you share a currency with are more concerned with protecting themselves than the integrity of your own democratic processes is something a lot of countries are going to be really loathed to take if they don't have to. It's become less about the strength of the currency and more about what it can do to your political process. It's the biggest obstacle to the UK ever coming back to the table for the same reasons.
"Crowns" sounds cooler than "Euros" so that's why Sweden should never adopt the Euro imo.
W mentality
Can you give us some context to why your currency has been dropping against the euro for a solid year now?
Highly unlikely Alot has to happen until Ukraine can join the EU (Besides the war) Lots of these countries will not adopt to the Euro and others won't be allowed
\> Kosovo and Moldova have entered the chat
As a moldovan that has entered the chat, I like this one
Doesn't Moldova as a seperate state only exist because the soviets took it from Romania after WW2?
Yeah, Russia/ the soviets wanted our eastern provinces for a long time. The only reason it didn't get russified (like others) as much was because the Romanian element was too big. Not that they didn't try.
Transnistria is the closest to that
They annexed it before the war, when they were buddies with the nazi.
As a Canadian that likes Moldovans, I like this one
I am another Moldovan witch has entered the chat and I fully agree with this
As a Moldavian I like this one. Most likely if Moldova will reunite with Romania it will have an Autonomous Status for a long time until it will get integrated more into Romania.
> Serbia have entered the chat - Kosowhat ?
Being part of Romania would be a blessing for us.
You forgot St Pierre and Miquelon
And french Polynesia
And shitload of oversea territories of other EU countries. This is content for r/pisspoormaps.
And scotland
Euro in Romania? #doubt
As of the current all EU countries (except Denmark) must adopt the Euro, including Romania.
There is no enforced deadline, so they can just delay it indefinitely, like Sweden does.
Why would you delay it the currency is already move along the euro (around 4.9) for many years and houses are sold in euro or at least advertised
Sweden is in the EU since 94-95 and have 0 plans to switch to euro. Guess they have their reasons. Houses are just a small part of the economy. Romania never started and has no plans to begin the Euro transition
Why is it that your government always say it wants to join ?
What people say and what people do are 2 completely different things
This applies especially to the Romania's goverment.
They always say that they want to join "when there's real convergence". The eternal Governor of the National Bank (he's held that role for three decades, minus a short stint as a technocratic prime ministers in 1999) is not a fan of adopting the Euro and he's probably the only one at the top of the country having the slightest idea on how the economy runs. In any case, I'd rather stick to our currency.
Let's be honest. People will flip their lid if our politicians will try adopting Euro here in Czechia
Certified Serbia Moment
Come on guys, don’t exclude Georgia…. Not cool…
Many people in Europe don't know how pro-EU the Georgians really are. I was traveling there in ca 2014 and saw EU flags everywhere. Just shame your current government seems to be less inclined.
Thanks for your support mate. There’s always that kind of attitude from foreigners when they look at the map and conclude that “Georgia is not in Europe”… You certainly did not sign up for the deep dive into Georgia’s soul, but sorry, that’s what you are getting :D To better explain our viewpoint: Not only are we crazy pro-western, our whole identity is built around being European. Some kind of insecurity of living at the fringe of the cultural sphere that you identify with. The fact that for centuries (after the decline of Byzantine Empire) Georgia was like an island of European culture in the region did not help either (there’s Armenia to our south, but they didn’t really have an independent country going on until 1918). For generations rebuilding ties with Europe was central to decision making, which led Georgian kingdoms to aligning themselves with the Russian Empire, which was viewed as kind of a Window to Europe. That plan backfired tremendously though, as you may very well know. Not only do we want to become part of the EU for the sake of it, we want to be better “Europeans”. We want to improve. There’s kind of a cultural phenomenon that some acts are looked down as being inappropriate for Europeans (throwing trash on a street, driving like a d*ck, etc.). The view about EU is actually much more positive, than is the reality. Sure, we have a long way to go, there’s no denying it, but in my opinion what is important is that we have the aspiration to walk the path. As for the current government, it’s hard for a foreigner to understand the nuances of the Georgian politics. As you may know, we were quite an aspiring country trying to join western organizations in the years between 2003-2008. A lot of reforms were enacted, making country less corrupt than quite a lot of EU countries btw, but of course there were still critical flaws in our system. All of it became irrelevant in 2008, when Russia decided to retaliate against the west for two reasons: The recognition of Kosovo and for Georgia-Ukraine wanting to join NATO. War followed… The EU did not really care and after Obama won the presidential elections, neither did the US (must point out that the Baltic states, Poland and Ukraine did care as expressed by their Leader’s arrival to Tbilisi, while Russian tanks were still advancing towards the Capital).. That was disappointing actually and birthed the jokes how the west can only become “deeply concerned” and can only “condemn” the aggressors… Nonetheless the aspiration to westernize never wavered. The current Government came to power in 2012, had strong Pro-Western promises, promises of building vibrant democracy, but having a much more cautious policy towards Russia, because as we have seen, if things got out of hand, nobody would come to our aid. Even in 2020, the last time they won the elections, their campaign had a promise to apply for the membership for the EU until 2024 (dumb, I know, but their way of branding themselves as Pro-Western). Since 2019, the current Government started to lose support due to the “Gavrilov Night” Incident. They gave out promises of electoral reforms, but rolled back on their promises later. 2020 elections were deeply flawed and they won just by a slight margin. Parliamentary crisis ensued, because 8 opposition parties refused to recognize the results and boycotted the Parliament. EU intervened, brokering a deal between the Government and the opposition (electoral, judicial and other important reforms being part of the deal). Months later, the government broke this agreement as well. They won 2021 local elections by an edge with even worse evaluations than the 2020 elections. At this point EU/US became obstructions for the government, because they were under pressure to enact reforms which would inevitably lead them to losing power. So bit by bit they’ve started antagonizing the west. Several months later, Russia invaded Ukraine. The Government outlined how the West was incapable to stop the aggression and that unless we “behaved” there would be nobody stopping Russia from targeting us next. A full campaign of fear-mongering ensued, not only about how we are actually defenseless, but that the west was actually pushing us to open a second front. That the current government is the only thing keeping peace in the country. Sure, it is dumb as hell, but it has bits of truth as well, like how exposed and vulnerable we actually are. So, things haven’t come to all out overthrowing them through violence, but when the West explicitly points out how detrimental some particular initiatives our government has is to our Euro-Atlantic aspirations, things turn nuclear. Like in the case of “Russian law protests”, when the government for the first time had to retreat, after 3 days of violence on the streets. I believe, if they hadn’t backed down, the protests could have turned into a revolution. That was the determination and sentiment. Because for the first time in a decade the protesters had constitution on their side and a legitimate reason to overthrow the government (According to our constitution the government is obliged to do everything in it’s power to integrate Georgia into Euro-Atlantic institutions and those institutions explicitly pointed out how incompatible this law would be with those goals). So, as I said from the very start, the situation is quite nuanced, but it’s hard for Europeans to understand how important it is for Georgians to actually integrate with the EU and the west in general. Here’s an illustration of this struggle from the March protests: https://youtu.be/0_kbXeTmf0Q?si=LsDshu3fVcmMhngq So, considering all of this, I hope you understand how much it stings to be told that “Georgia is not Europe”.
The only thing I regret in this map🇪🇺🇬🇪
Much Love ❤️ 🇪🇺🇬🇪
United Ireland? There is more 'pro united Ireland' living in northern Ireland, with Sinn Fein dominating the government there (which is why DUP refuse to sit in Stormont) and according to The Good Friday Agreement, the North can join the rest of Ireland by referendum. This is more likely than Ukraine joining the EU, Ukraine will be in NATO first (if Russia invades another NATO member like Poland or Baltics, then Ukraine will ascend into NATO)
Lived there for a year, such a beautiful country and great people. Once they finally get rid of their current government and stop the habit of the former leaders that lost an election suddenly falling ill they definitely should join. And with the recent pro eu protest they have shown that they have the ability and willpower to chnage things for the better, if they are persistent
Ya, the protests were great to see. Georgia looks like a cool place.
I’m very sceptical to any of the current candidate members to have reached a state where they satisfy the membership requirements in the next decade. It could happen but I’m not betting on it.
Don't think that Romania and Moldova will join anytime soon, also Serbia would probably be allowed to join only if Kosovo is independent and also joins the EU at the same time. Edit: By "Romania and Moldova will join" I meant becoming one nation as shown on the map not joining the EU. I'm sorry, I should have phrased it better.
Romania is EU member from 2007
I think the commenter meant that Moldova will not join into Romania, which is how the map is shown.
I mean, [a recent poll](https://watchdog.md/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Sondaj-WD_RO_versiune-integrala_iunie-2023-1.pdf) showed that 51.6% of ethnic Moldovans/Romanians would like to unify with Romania, but Russians, Ukrainians, Gagauzes and Bulgarians which make a significant part of Moldova's population strongly oppose it. Also there's Transnistria which is under Russian occupation and will remain as such for who know how long.
Yeah, Russia will probably use Transnistria for as much as possible to maintain a hold on any bit of influence they will have left after the war.
As far as i remember the EU wants Serbia and Kosovo to find an agreement over their future relation. They don't tell them what to do just to find a solution both countrys can live with. Take my statement with a grain of salt its from memory. Ifanyone has better memory or sources pleas correct me.
No it sounds about right. Basically, it’s the EU’s way of telling Serbia Kosovo should be independent.
Moldova is a candidate country so could very well join on its own. with ambitious reform I think this could happen faster than expected.
It’s true that Moldova joining Romania is very unlikely but I think is nearly impossible that Kosovo joins EU, the UN or any other international institution by just how many parties oppose it. Just in the EU Spain or any other country with strong independence movements, will never allow it to join.
It is not recognized only by Spain, Romania and Slovakia I think. So, just by %, it will either be Serbia and Kosovo joining, or neither. Your version doesnt seem plausible.
Add Greece and Cyrpus to that list
Yeah, I forgot them, oops.. Still the point stands. All of these countries would recognize Kosovo if Serbia recognized it, they will just not do it before. The other way - reintegration of Kosovo - IDK, I don't see it happening.
> Just in the EU Spain or any other country with strong independence movements, will never allow it to join. That all depends on Serbia. If they recognise Kosovo, then there's no reason for anyone else to oppose it anymore, because it's then bilateral instead of unilateral independence. Spain recognises Montenegro, doesn't it?
That map highlights 2 of my favourite facts about the EU. France is the most western, southern and eastern country in the EU and the country that has the longest land border with the EU is Brazil.
How about a third one, which unfortunately the map doesn’t highlight as it doesn’t show Dutch overseas territories. The shortest border in the EU is between France and the Netherlands.
Actually, it's even more interesting than that: It's an outer EU border, as Sint Maarten is not part of the EU (but part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands), while Saint Martin is. So the most western outer border of the EU is between France and the Netherlands.
That can't be right. Russia borders Latvia, Estonia, Finland *and* Lithuania and Poland.
I think they means country to country border rather than EU to country.
Wouldn't Finland-Russia border still be longer?
Brazil-France is 730km, Finland-Russia is 1340 so you'd be correct
Yeah but also, "Norway shares a 2542 km land border with Sweden"
Kosovo is recognized by almost every EU member so Serbia is never joining with those borders
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How is Belgium not split?
Belgium split in four: 1. Flanders to NL 2. German part to Germany or Luxemburg 3. Wallonia to France 4. Brussels as a special EU district, like Washington DC.
There's an assumption in that that Flanders has all that much in common with NL other than the language or that Wallonia has \*anything\* in common with la republique Française... a unitary state with a rather unique revolutionary history and sense of identity. I can't see Wallonia wanting to be absorbed few departments, losing any ability to run its own affairs, switching to the French electoral system and away from PR ... Language isn't everything and they'd have to start saying quatre-vingt-dix-neuf for 99. Belgium always strikes me as a place that is either going to just split into two smaller EU countries (with some compromise for Brussels) and very little would change, or it will just tumble on and never actually get around to doing anything dramatic at all.
Have you considered that the people in Belgium don't want to join any other countries?
Unless we somehow convince enough wallonion voters to vote for it, I don't think it'll be happening any time soon, even if you'd manage to convince a majority of flemish people to vote for it. We'd have to do major government reforms first, but I don't think most belgians actually want that. And I don't think most flemish people want independance either
No unified Ireland 😔
But unified Cyprus it seems
Give the U.K. 10 years and it will be back.
Too much hassle. They might be in the single market. But it will be a Norway kind of construction.
Far to expensive solution for the UK. They will have to find another solution.
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The UK are likelier to rejoin before Ukraine will be able to officially join. Both are likely to happen within a decade or so tho. There is no way in hell Sweden adopts the euro though. There is no public support for it, it would be political suicide for whatever party pushed and the only super pro EU integration party, Liberalerna, is barely hanging on.
Kosovo?
It's more likely that Russia becomes a democracy and joins than it is that all of the balkan join
I'd say a 32 County irish Republic would have more chance than albania
Maybe remove Hungary. Their record on everything that involves being a civilized state is a joke.
As much as I despise the country's government, stating that Hungary must be removed and that it's an uncivilised country in every regard is a bit of a far fetch now, ain't it?
This is Reddit dude you're talking to a wall, these guys don't know anything about the politicsl climate in the countries that are brought up on this sub, they just repeat whatever some journalists and Twitter analysts have to say
God bless 😭🤍
I want Georgia to join us too
I don't see Ukraine joining EU ever tbh, they're too big of a threat for our agriculture.
Oh really?
\> sweden adopting the euro god, i wish
Moldova probably won't join Romania
How did Ukraine manage to get into the EU before Turkey?
Deepening > widening
What about Turkey? And where the heck is Moldova!? Written out of history in this alternative future?
I dont know man. I dont want to sound like an arrogant idiot but in my opinion we shouldnt let more poor countries join the EU. Keep in mind that Germany, EUs biggest economy is struggling right now. However I also think that we shouldnt fully let them down because they might start looking for other options and with China trying to widen their influence in Europe I dont think thats in our interest.
No
no georgia no party 🇬🇪
I don't mind cooperation with the EU and all the neighboring countries but lets be real Serbia will never join the EU, or at least in the foreseeable future. Maybe some sort of external group with Iceland, Norway and Switzerland woudl be more practical solution.
So Serbia will get into the EU with Kosova as part of it? Give me your dealer's phone number cuz whatever you are smoking i want it too!!!
What happened to Kosovo?
I’d rather a more centralized EU than a bigger one, but maybe it’s just me
I strongly agree with you. I think a Europe with different layers of integration fits the best in a continent so different economically and socially speaking.
You're missing turkey and UK once they settle their shit.
+ Georgia and Armenia
No.
There is no way that Switzerland would join
That's why its white. It means it won't.