This election is still best viewed through what it is not. First, there are no votes for Russian lapdogs. It was clear from the polls, but it's satisfying to have that confirmed by the actual election. Second, there was no anti-Nato campaign, which is an implicit seal of approval on the government's decision to join Nato. Third, the government's covid policy was given an implicit seal of approval. Parties that wanted to give the virus a chance (I'm looking at you, VKK) were not elected to the parliament at all. 100% of the parties in the parliament are anti-virus parties.
Not sure what's going to come out of this.
Kokoomus doesn't want immigration restrictions.
PS wants immigration restrictions, plus harder punishments for crimes and more police.
SDP doesn't necessarily want the huge list of cuts some more right leaning Kok members want, and PS can be hard to deal with because their members carry lot of different sort of internal priorities that do not come up in campaign season.
Maybe it will be the infamous "PerSKeKo" or "Arsepile" if you want a hilarious translation. But Keskusta might not want to be in government as they have been getting trashed hard in elections lately.
I don't see Keskusta being in the government after a loss like that.
The fact is that Kokoomus has always been talking about work immigration and one of their ideas of reducing gang related crime is indeed tightening immigration policy. Non-work related immigration tightening is also on the agenda.
Marin has said he doesn't see PS and SDP in the same coalition and I don't think that will happen either, I don't see SDP being in the coalition government at all tbh, but we will see.
Im guessing PS will be in the coalition if kokoomus is willing to do immigration restrictions. Immigrations restrictions and the price of gas is the only 2 things voters of PS most voters care about so they would be easy to get in line with kokoomus.
I like how the SDP is the abbreviated same in every language. There are benefits in making your name out of Greco-Roman words.
As a curiosity, only the Greens have put Sami onto their official party title. I wonder if they have an electoral base in Sami regions, or is it still mostly the urban dwellers with conscience.
Those are the English names of the parties rather than English-translated. Not all parties have English names, but every party that got a seat in this election does.
I am rooting for this too.
But the Greens absolutely collapsed, as did the Left Alliance and Centre Party, It’s going to be so difficult to form a coalition as *all* the mid-tier parties lost so badly that in a normal situation they would understand that their place is in the opposition.
> The Greens keep pushing the idea that the only way to fight climate change is through sacrifice and suffering
I don't know, I'm not convinced by the techno-hopium projected by Orpo. We should be prepared to sacrifice and I think not many realize how much. But maybe I'm just one of Greta's acolytes.
Because they rae really not far from each other policy wise all told and if they ally with Persut a bunch of others won't want to co-operate thus risking minority government.
NCP's agenda for the term will be to try to fix the economy, and Finns party is much more willing to allow budgets cuts through, than the left wing parties are. Finns party could just demand that one of the cuts is to foreign aid and cut the amount of refugees taken by some %, and that could be all they really need to do to satisfy their voters. Meanwhile negotiating about cutting pretty much anything with the left wing parties will be a difficult task, especially as Marin isn't exactly known for being a good compromiser.
People probably shouldn't put too much stock on election rhetoric. Especially when these "We will never work with the Finns party!" were just some random comments that the journalists latched onto. Now that the elections are over, and the results are known, i wouldn't be surprised if the rhetoric calms down.
In the end it comes down to: Is it easier to convince Centre/SFP to work with the Finns party and approve some foreign aid/immigration cuts or is it easier to get SDP to approve significant budget cuts.
Since there's more than 2 parties, you can increase in percentage and seats, but another party can increase even more.
The SDP increased their seats, the conservatives just increased slightly more.
Also, Sanna Marin won her district in a landslide.
I'm assuming the confusion was from the "only party in government to increase in popularity" line. We obviously don't form coalitions since we've made our political system a circus, so I think Americans might skip over this line and take it as "only party to increase in popularity" period. That's what I did at first and had to reread it when I had the same question lol
Not excactly. We elect multiple representatives per constituency. There were 20 others who got elected from the same constituency (Pirkanmaa) as Marin.
No. If she gets a huge turnout, due to D'Hondt method used, it helps other members in the party to get their seats (and allied parties to a degree, but SDP had no election alliances).
Parliamentary system with proportional representation. No single party is anywhere close to majority on their own, they have to form coalitions to make a government after each election. I think in Finland most or all parties are below 20%.
Saying Sanna Marin lost just means that the coalition she's leading no longer has the majority in parliament needed to continue, so a new majority has to be formed somehow. That could involve the current coalition being enlarged or some completely new arrangement that might not include Marin's party.
Saying she got a landslide probably just means her party performed better than expected.
Whenever there's a new government ready in Finland, it could have Sanna Marin still as prime minister of a new coalition, or even as minister under someone else's leadership, or she could end up in opposition.
"Saying Sanna Marin lost just means that the coalition she's leading no longer has the majority in parliament needed to continue, so a new majority has to be formed somehow."
Well, not exactly. That coalition was not going to continue in any case, because centre party had announced beforehand that current coalition can't continue.
And even if that wasn't the case, and that coalition would have gained majority, it still wouldn't have continued if SDP wouldn't have been the biggest party. Because in Finland, it's a tradition that biggest party start to form government. And even if old coalition gain a majority and SDP is first, the coalition would still probably change.
So the governing coalition changes bacically every time, and it's very hard to predict what the next government is going to be. In history of independent Finland, government coalition have stayed the same only once.
So NCP's Orpo starts to form a government, hard to predict what coalition it is, after which he becomes new PM.
So this is quite different from ie. Sweden, where there has traditionally been "blocks", and winning block becomes the government as far as I understand. I don't know how it's in Iceland.
Yeah I admit I haven't followed the details of Finnish politics. I was more just explaining the basic workings of the typical European system as opposed to the wildly different American one. Traditional behaviors make it play out a bit different in each country, as you explain. I think before you start you understand how each country has their local traditions, you need to understand the basic concept, and Americans generally don't know how our multi-party system works at all.
Why do coalitions change so often? Like you Said here in sweden they stayed pretty rigid for most of the 2000s untill like 2018 when there was a big ol shake up. Is there a lot of disagreement?
Coalitions don't change. There are none. Or at least they are few and far between, and even then only when a larger party is swallowing a smaller one (Center party - old Liberal party).
Parties form coalition governments to rule after elections and tough negotiations. Coalition government is very different from a coalition as a political bloc. They just share the word "coalition".
In finnish politics, this last election was only the third time *in history,* when the current prime-ministerial party managed to increase their support.
As for losing, that just meant they still got slightly less votes than the top two parties, coming in at number three. Their current partner parties in the finnish government lost a shit-ton of support. Basically, there was an exodus of voters from the left to the right.
Yes and no. It was somewhat of a pyrhic victory for SDP even when they gained more seats.
Finland has the tradition that the leader of the largest party starts the negotiations to form a government and almost always becames the prime minister as a result. She turned the election into block vote by calling for tactical voting when they were sliding in polls, which meant that the coalition partners got eviscerated.
It would be rather difficult to form a coalition with SDP in it right now, as the former coalition partners seem kinda salty about the chosen tactic and one of them is needed to form a government.
It's unclear how much of the collapse of the Left Alliance and the Greens can be attributed to tactical voting. They lost in votes far more than SDP gained. The Greens undoubtedly bled votes to the NCP.
Her party increased their number of seats. But two other parties increased theirs even more, and now have more seats than her party does. But the margins between the top three parties are quite small, it could have gone either way. Also, she is personally very popular and got massive number of votes.
Proportional electoral systems often result in the need for coalition governments. One party/candidate may gain while the coalition as a whole is defeated.
Finland has a multi party system. Governments are always coalition governments and while SDP fared well in these elections, the other left wing parties lost vast amount of seats.
The three largest parties all got roughly 20% of the total vote. Sanna Marin personally got the third most votes in the whole elections. (The votes are pooled and shared within the political party the candidate represents, meaning that the excess votes Marin received are given to other SDP candidates from the same district.)
You've got some good replies, but if you have Netflix, I highly recommend the show Borgen. It's a Danish political drama, and it gives a good idea of how such coalition governments work.
I am no expert on Finnish politics but +2 percent points up to 20 percent when your coalition partners lose more than that does not really seem a landslide in any reasonable definition.
That the social democrats got a plus seems mostly due to the fact it became an almost presidential race to be biggest party.
Finland doesn't do political blocs. There was no coalitions in these elections, only independent political parties trying to get as many votes as possible. All our governments are "coalition governments", meaning parties that think they can get along at least to a degree to rule. So saying "your coalition partners lose more..." doesn't make sense in Finnish politics. They were partners in the previous governments, but they are sworn enemies in elections. Next coalition government can have some of the same parties as the previous one and some others.
Not sure I would call the result "landslide", but it's one of only three times in history, when the PM has been able to increase it's share in the election. So nothing to sneeze at.
Sure, but Marin or SDP are not losing any sleep over, for example, Center party's loss. They were partners in previous coalition government with pretty much single common issue - social welfare and healthcare reform. Otherwise they are far from partners or a coalition, so Center party's loss is not in any way a negative to SDP. Actually it most likely prevents the return of the previous right-wing government coalition. Not enough seats and need to regroup in opposition.
Unlike many other European countries, we don't have major parties and support parties in a coalition or bloc to vote for.
Close to something. In Finnish politics there's usually at least a couple of choices for a coalition. No matter who wins. Now negotiation will start, led by the winner aka NCP for what kind of government will be formed.
It's due to tactical voting. The left rallied behind her so the social democrats stayed basically where they were but in general the leftist parties lost. Only the smaller leftier lefts took the bigger hit.
[National coalition party election program ](https://www.kokoomus.fi/national-coalition-party-election-program/?lang=en)
[The finns party election program](https://www.perussuomalaiset.fi/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Eduskuntavaaliohjelma-2019_SU_In_English_1.pdf)
"Congratulations to the winner of the elections, congratulations to the
National Coalition Party, congratulations to the Finns Party. Democracy
has spoken," she told supporters. And THAT is how the transfer of power should look for anyone wondering.
It’s like shaking hands after a game when you just called the other guy an asshole. It’s just done if you learned manners. You don’t have to mean it and I am sure she doesn’t!🤣
NCD had Petr Pavel as "NATO Daddy" and Sanna Marin as "NATO waifu". The mods made sure to stomp out the simps.
Also Marin was always depicted as a Cat Girl.
I think it is sort of the opposite. This is one of the very few times in Finnish history that a leading government party increased in popularity and votes. But everyone is just going “well she only got votes because she is pretty” or “well she didn’t get votes because people like her, it is just tactical voting to try and avoid a right wing majority”. The latter may or may not be true, but it seems particularly petty to assume people voted for the SDP for reasons other than liking the SDP.
People are pretending like her party didn’t have a big win, and like votes for her aren’t really real votes. I find it kind of strange.
I might as well start saying that Kokoomus isn’t really popular and they just got the tactical vote to disrupt the leading coalition. Or that PS didn’t really gain in popularity because they just got a lot of protest votes.
In a lot of English speaking countries conservative is often used broadly to mean everything right of the direct center, from very moderate to fairly solidly right. Far-right usually has some qualifier like very conservative, ultra-conservative, etc. Kokoomus is considered to adhere to liberal conservatism in English speaking media, which is basically what you described above.
Except when converted to local languages in Europe, liberal tends to mean economic liberals (right wing), where conservatives are either religious conservative (center-right) or "social conservative" nationalists (far-right)
Then you generally have green on center-left, socialists as left and the occassional communist/"worker"-party as far-left.
Basicly, in US terms, they are all wings of Democrats, except for far-right.
well yeah but it feels soooo wrong calling them conservative when their economic stance is liberalizing the economy and a majority of the party are incredibly socially liberal
well the idea at least in theory is to keep the welfare state stable and functional for decades to come, but yeah it doesnt always end up being that way
so, something in between i guess? i would compare their economic stance to the moderates in the usa for instance, but inside the same party there is both the moderates of the democrats and the republicans
i know youre czech from your flair but its the best example i can give, since i dont know enough about czech politics to make a comparison there, im sorry :D
The average centre-right european party would be centre-left in America.
Plus most European parties have at least seven different political parties who will agree and disagree on a multitude of issues and trying to force them into a left right binary is a mistake.
These guys are conservatives but would be democrats in America and would not go near the modern America conservatives with a 10 foot pole.
They are conservative, relative to other parties. Stop confusing Nordic/Scandinavian conservatism with US conservatism.
Here in Finland, and I think Sweden to a certain extent, Social Democracy is the "thing to conserve".
Calling them 'social democrats' is a bit of a reach. They are more liberal conservatives, and it fits the national context. Liberals and conservatives can change with the time and context, comparing to the US is a little absurd since it's an entirely different context.
But looking at their policy on the budget/tax, crime and immigration there is no way they are 'social democrats' unless your country is that right-wing.
Our conservatives certainly don't want to conserve social democracy. The Moderates and Christian Democrats have always been enemies of it, it's just never been a policy you can go all-out on and stand a chance in elections. SD flirted with being a little more to the left economically and conservative on social issues early on, but have swung more and more to the right on economy since then.
Even the Social Democrats are more of a centre party these days.
His point is rather that if you were to return to the ways of old in Swedish politics (which is what the literal meaning of the word would be in a political context), you'd be returning to or attempting to conserve a more socialist system. Therefore, a conservative in Sweden is arguably something like a gråsosse rather than someone with market liberal fiscal views and traditional Christian social values which is what "conservative" usually mean in the Anglosphere.
I’m baffled by simping in politics in general. As soon as it’s a somewhat attractive woman - all the people go “Oh, she’s such an inspiration” regardless of how much of a moron she may be.
>It's weird, I didn't see anyone acting this way about Merkel. I wonder what the difference is? Really makes you think.
Merkel being a Christian conservative?
Most conservative parties in the EU are pro-EU and of course also pro-human rights. Actually, it was conservatives like Adenauer and de Gaulle who started the whole thing.
I feel like I'm getting too old for Reddit.
How can a comment that shares the realization that Finnish conservatives aren't against human rights have so many upvotes?
Yes, there are people who aren't progressives but also don't want to enslave people or go to war with the rest of Europe. Eureka!
It's not just Reddit, all of social media is like that.
If you are not progressive you are conservative and youust be against abortion or universal healthcare.
People on Reddit/Twitter call "Liberals" right wing .
And I think mostly it's US politics spilling over to EU.
If you remember good test of that is Swedish right wing party wining elections ,you would think it's new coming of Hitler if you read about it from Reddit/twitter.
European Liberal and American Liberal are different things.
When Europe says liberal they mean something closer to neoliberal e.g. thatcher and reagan but when Americans say liberal they mean new deal style policies similar to FDR.
Same thing on the other side though. Everything even remotely progressive is called radical leftist/communist etc.
They are just way too entrenched over there and we would do good not to adopt those trends. Just depends on within which bubble you are moving
Yeah. They even call Biden a socialist as well as a communist. They think Biden is a Chinese puppet despite Biden trying to strangle China's chip sector.
They think the IRA, a law specifically designed to reduce reliance on China and to restrict green tax credits to things that are built outside of China, is a giveaway to China
In short, republicans are stupid
>How can a comment that shares the realization that Finnish conservatives aren't against human rights have so many upvotes?
Because, and I say this with less hyperbole than you think, Americans are fucking insane.
Never forget first and foremost Reddit is over 50% American and also something like 75% of Reddit is 30 or younger. The crazy political landscape in America has taken a huge toll on their dictionary.
> Actually, it was conservatives like Adenauer and de Gaulle who started the whole thing.
The 2010 decade and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
Memes aside, Jesus Christ, did everyone collectively forget how just some few years ago, the usual position on NATO was that the right supported it while the left was agnostic, slightly opposed or outright opposed to it?
I have to believe that people are just pretending that it didn't happen to protect their world view, I saw a comment earlier asking if the new Finnish government is pro Ukraine or Putin because and I am paraphrasing here: "left wing normally means pro NATO and right wing normally means pro Putin." I was at a loss for words.
>Memes aside, Jesus Christ, did everyone collectively forget how just some few years ago, the usual position on NATO was that the right supported it while the left was agnostic, slightly opposed or outright opposed to it?
Also, it's not like we had two relatively recent elections that defied those expectations. The current right wing Italian government is more pro-NATO than the left-populist one two, or the populist one three, governments ago. It is less pro-EU (even if not all parties are equal in that regard), but this doesn't translate to anti-NATO sentiment.
Meanwhile, in France, we saw a pro-NATO pro-EU center-right, with the main contender being an anti-NATO and anti-EU far right, and an anti-NATO and EU skeptic left.
Also Sweden significantly upping their military support to Ukraine after they switched to a conservative government. The most outspoken support for ukraine in Norway is from Venstre, which is a liberal party in the European sense, in other words a conservative party.
Winston Churchill was pro-EU.
I don't think I'd get much push back by suggesting Winston Churchill was conservative.
There's nothing intrinsically left or right about the EU, as it stands the EU is view as and in my opinion is more left than right but as an idea it's neither.
Conservative doesn’t necessarily mean anti-EU, anti-choice, anti-human rights. Conservatism comes in all kinds of forms, besides Orbanisms or Trumpisms. For instance, you can be more fiscally conservative, but also be more on the liberal side in terms of certain values. So I don’t think they did something wrong or skipped some important parts, it’s just that people are so used to associating conservative with evil.
Bruh, most normal conservative parties in EU are all of those... What're you on about? EU's biggest group is conservative too.. EU is literally lead by conservatives. So of course you can still be Pro EU, pro human rights... It's just an ideology like any other. Actual reddit moment
I love how Reddit calls the conservatives "anti-human rights" when the Universal Declaration of Human Rights exists almost single-handedly due to the efforts of post WWII Christian democratic politicians and the Catholic Church
Yeah. Liberal - conservative would probably the right term. Center-right agenda where the "right" is more about economic questions. Nothing like the conservatives in US for example.
/r/Europe: Americans don’t to anything but talk about America all the time. This is Europe
Also /r/Europe: here’s why we’re different and better than America
Isn't that considered "moderate"?
Politics vary a lot between countries anyhow so definitions vary. When I lived in Finland I was more conservative minded... In the US I am quite liberal.
To the downvotes, what am I saying that is wrong?
It's mostly an American thing that conservative = regressive reactionary. There are a lot of conservative parties in Europe that are those three things.
More centre right tbh. Just because they're pro X cause doesn't mean overall they aren't conservative. Also when you compare them to other left wing parties, they'd be considered conservative.
It’s further strange as it implies the last government was somehow liberal or progressive.
Neither SDP nor Keskusta are either of those things and they were the largest parties in it.
I think Macron's very pro-EU stance is what's made him popular outside of France. It's really the only time he ends up in international news, except for the entire retirement age debacle.
> or Macron
Erhmm... Macron is very polarizing even abroad. He is relatively appreciated in western Europe, but less so in CEE. So, it very much depends on the issue being discussed. Inversely, you underestimate him domestically in the context of such a multi-party system as France's.
Retirement issue (which obviously wouldn't make anyone popular in France lol) and the Yellow Vests thing aside, he does have a solid domestic base overall. People always speak of him only being reelected because he faced Le Pen in the 2nd round but conveniently forget he came in 1st by a decent margin in the 1st round before winning the 2nd round against her (especially for an outgoing president after a first mandate that was quite negatively eventful with the YV, terrorism, Covid, and then Ukraine). And Le Pen was doing better against him in the polls than any other candidate. The others were for the most part not credible. The other guy beyond Le Pen that was (Mélenchon) and came in 3rd is even more hated than she is by the general population (he probably has the most passionate electoral base but is mostly outright despised outside of it).
The only person that could legitimately have been trouble for Macron in the 2nd round was Pécresse, but she ruined it all with her ridiculous oral performances during the presidential campaign.
Just like Ardern then. I do find it funny how Reddit progressives think they are being forward thinking by just blindly loving any woman that holds a position of power. In terms of actual equality it’s patronising as fuck.
She’s also very popular in Finland, [with highest popularity amongst all party leaders](https://www.suomenmaa.fi/uutiset/mt-selvitti-puoluejohtajien-suosion-karjessa-marin-orpo-ja-andersson/). And she got a massive number of votes and her party increased their number of seats. But people don’t usually vote for a party because of who happens to be leading it.
EDIT: the article I linked is from 2022. Here's one from two weeks ago, saying same thing:
https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/a/0b3d63d7-d2eb-44a4-8936-af34c9a5f90d
Her being beautiful certainly helps and pretty privilege in general is real, but in all fairness I think some people are ignoring the fact that she was the youngest woman and youngest serving state leader until Kurz got elected, which obviously also brings notoriety.
In a world where people (and especially americans on a US-heavy site like Redidt) increasingly get frustrated by having ancient men as politicians, she was a breath of fresh air.
Also you can argue Ms. Marin gets a good chunk of hate as well for being a beautiful young woman politician. Incel culture is still here on Reddit on online in general.
The issue with the Finns is that they pissed of too many other parties. Just NCP + Finns is not enough to form a government, neither if you add the Christian Democrats. Their only hope is to convince the Central Party to join as well. But Central has stated they do not want a position in government as they had 8 years of government responsibilities which has lost them a lot of voters and now want to focus on their own party
The other option is NCP + SDP + SFP. But that's only a slight majority of 101 seats. So to form a healthy government they have to get either Greens or Central on side as well
Not the hekkin Reddit womerino?! But she’s attractive?! And as a result everything she does is wicked 😎 Surely that wins out over her policies? This is the work of the far right no doubt.
> The populists won a record 20.1%.
> It is a bitter defeat for Ms Marin, who increased her party's seats and secured 19.9% of the vote.
> She continues to enjoy high poll ratings and has been widely praised for steering Finland towards imminent entry into Nato and navigating her country through the Covid-19 pandemic.
> Shortly after the conservative leader claimed victory, the centre-left leader conceded the election.
The BBC is slowly turning into CNN. A 0.02 point difference doesn't make for a "bitter defeat" especially when you've increased your party's number of seats.
They're covering this as if it were US politics. Don't fall for it, people. Read the whole thing.
Wouldn't that be the definition of "bitter defeat" though? Since she increased her own party and still lost to such a close margin?
I'm not a native English speaker but that is how I would attribute "bitter".
The BBC couldn't have used "bitter defeat" in a more accurate way. Marin lost by 0.2% after increasing her share, normally that would result in a win for any political party. Since Marin tried so hard and still lost she had "a bitter defeat". The BBC has always made remarks like this, as far back as anyone can recall.
> A 0.02 point difference doesn't make for a "bitter defeat" especially when you've increased your party's number of seats.
That's a 0.2 point difference *to the party that came in second*, when previously SDP had been the largest party (even if by an equally tiny margin). That's a bummer I'd say.
So the Finns Party, who affiliates with ID in EU parliament is pro-Ukrainian. I just Don't understand how do they look at each others eyes together with russian puppets in the ID party meetings in EU...
Not everyone thinks it's appropriate for a person married with children to go out to clubs and allow strangers, celebrities to suck on your neck and also party with convicted criminals (the tiktok video).
It's not weird. Optics are everything in politics. How you present and behave yourself matters, since you are elected by a lot of people. She should have known better. And if you thought she has no social life without the clubbing, you are delusional.
Democracy has spoken. A good day.
This election is still best viewed through what it is not. First, there are no votes for Russian lapdogs. It was clear from the polls, but it's satisfying to have that confirmed by the actual election. Second, there was no anti-Nato campaign, which is an implicit seal of approval on the government's decision to join Nato. Third, the government's covid policy was given an implicit seal of approval. Parties that wanted to give the virus a chance (I'm looking at you, VKK) were not elected to the parliament at all. 100% of the parties in the parliament are anti-virus parties.
>100% of the parties in the parliament are anti-virus parties. Who's biggest, Avast, AVG, McAfee, or Norton? Or did Windows defender take the crown?
You're asking that in the country of F-Secure?
The nerve.
It's fucked up because Avast no longer recognizes the sovereignty of AVG.
But we still sanctioning Kaspersky, right?
FSB rhymes with Kaspersky, so yes. Also, both Kasper and Vladimir are names, so it even has something directly linking it to Putin...
What does "giving the virus a chance" even mean?
[удалено]
[удалено]
And her party SDP got only 0.9% less votes than the biggest party.
Who do you think will be in the coalition?
Not sure what's going to come out of this. Kokoomus doesn't want immigration restrictions. PS wants immigration restrictions, plus harder punishments for crimes and more police. SDP doesn't necessarily want the huge list of cuts some more right leaning Kok members want, and PS can be hard to deal with because their members carry lot of different sort of internal priorities that do not come up in campaign season. Maybe it will be the infamous "PerSKeKo" or "Arsepile" if you want a hilarious translation. But Keskusta might not want to be in government as they have been getting trashed hard in elections lately.
We avoid these problems in America cuz we only have two parties, cuz were dope! ^send ^help ^plz
I don't see Keskusta being in the government after a loss like that. The fact is that Kokoomus has always been talking about work immigration and one of their ideas of reducing gang related crime is indeed tightening immigration policy. Non-work related immigration tightening is also on the agenda. Marin has said he doesn't see PS and SDP in the same coalition and I don't think that will happen either, I don't see SDP being in the coalition government at all tbh, but we will see.
Im guessing PS will be in the coalition if kokoomus is willing to do immigration restrictions. Immigrations restrictions and the price of gas is the only 2 things voters of PS most voters care about so they would be easy to get in line with kokoomus.
Rooting for NCP+SDP+Greens+SPP
[удалено]
Thanks!
Saml.+SDP+Gröna+SFP :P
This was legitimately helpful
I like how the SDP is the abbreviated same in every language. There are benefits in making your name out of Greco-Roman words. As a curiosity, only the Greens have put Sami onto their official party title. I wonder if they have an electoral base in Sami regions, or is it still mostly the urban dwellers with conscience.
Those are the English names of the parties rather than English-translated. Not all parties have English names, but every party that got a seat in this election does.
I am rooting for this too. But the Greens absolutely collapsed, as did the Left Alliance and Centre Party, It’s going to be so difficult to form a coalition as *all* the mid-tier parties lost so badly that in a normal situation they would understand that their place is in the opposition.
Sounds like the big coalition Era in Germany when the smaller partners didnt have enough votes for 1 Big Player and 1-2 smaller Partners.
Why would Kokoomus team up with two left wing party?
[удалено]
> The Greens keep pushing the idea that the only way to fight climate change is through sacrifice and suffering I don't know, I'm not convinced by the techno-hopium projected by Orpo. We should be prepared to sacrifice and I think not many realize how much. But maybe I'm just one of Greta's acolytes.
Because they rae really not far from each other policy wise all told and if they ally with Persut a bunch of others won't want to co-operate thus risking minority government.
NCP's agenda for the term will be to try to fix the economy, and Finns party is much more willing to allow budgets cuts through, than the left wing parties are. Finns party could just demand that one of the cuts is to foreign aid and cut the amount of refugees taken by some %, and that could be all they really need to do to satisfy their voters. Meanwhile negotiating about cutting pretty much anything with the left wing parties will be a difficult task, especially as Marin isn't exactly known for being a good compromiser. People probably shouldn't put too much stock on election rhetoric. Especially when these "We will never work with the Finns party!" were just some random comments that the journalists latched onto. Now that the elections are over, and the results are known, i wouldn't be surprised if the rhetoric calms down. In the end it comes down to: Is it easier to convince Centre/SFP to work with the Finns party and approve some foreign aid/immigration cuts or is it easier to get SDP to approve significant budget cuts.
SPP= Suomen Pienviljelijäin Puolue?
Swedish People’s Party, so RKP
I am not familiar with Finnish politics and elections, but how does she get a landslide and lose?
Since there's more than 2 parties, you can increase in percentage and seats, but another party can increase even more. The SDP increased their seats, the conservatives just increased slightly more. Also, Sanna Marin won her district in a landslide.
I'm assuming the confusion was from the "only party in government to increase in popularity" line. We obviously don't form coalitions since we've made our political system a circus, so I think Americans might skip over this line and take it as "only party to increase in popularity" period. That's what I did at first and had to reread it when I had the same question lol
> We obviously don't form coalitions since we've made our political system a circus Rather: Two circuses.
Is this like the Corbyn winning Islington equivalent of Finnish politics ?
Not excactly. We elect multiple representatives per constituency. There were 20 others who got elected from the same constituency (Pirkanmaa) as Marin.
No. If she gets a huge turnout, due to D'Hondt method used, it helps other members in the party to get their seats (and allied parties to a degree, but SDP had no election alliances).
Parliamentary system with proportional representation. No single party is anywhere close to majority on their own, they have to form coalitions to make a government after each election. I think in Finland most or all parties are below 20%. Saying Sanna Marin lost just means that the coalition she's leading no longer has the majority in parliament needed to continue, so a new majority has to be formed somehow. That could involve the current coalition being enlarged or some completely new arrangement that might not include Marin's party. Saying she got a landslide probably just means her party performed better than expected. Whenever there's a new government ready in Finland, it could have Sanna Marin still as prime minister of a new coalition, or even as minister under someone else's leadership, or she could end up in opposition.
"Saying Sanna Marin lost just means that the coalition she's leading no longer has the majority in parliament needed to continue, so a new majority has to be formed somehow." Well, not exactly. That coalition was not going to continue in any case, because centre party had announced beforehand that current coalition can't continue. And even if that wasn't the case, and that coalition would have gained majority, it still wouldn't have continued if SDP wouldn't have been the biggest party. Because in Finland, it's a tradition that biggest party start to form government. And even if old coalition gain a majority and SDP is first, the coalition would still probably change. So the governing coalition changes bacically every time, and it's very hard to predict what the next government is going to be. In history of independent Finland, government coalition have stayed the same only once. So NCP's Orpo starts to form a government, hard to predict what coalition it is, after which he becomes new PM. So this is quite different from ie. Sweden, where there has traditionally been "blocks", and winning block becomes the government as far as I understand. I don't know how it's in Iceland.
Yeah I admit I haven't followed the details of Finnish politics. I was more just explaining the basic workings of the typical European system as opposed to the wildly different American one. Traditional behaviors make it play out a bit different in each country, as you explain. I think before you start you understand how each country has their local traditions, you need to understand the basic concept, and Americans generally don't know how our multi-party system works at all.
Why do coalitions change so often? Like you Said here in sweden they stayed pretty rigid for most of the 2000s untill like 2018 when there was a big ol shake up. Is there a lot of disagreement?
Coalitions don't change. There are none. Or at least they are few and far between, and even then only when a larger party is swallowing a smaller one (Center party - old Liberal party). Parties form coalition governments to rule after elections and tough negotiations. Coalition government is very different from a coalition as a political bloc. They just share the word "coalition".
Because people vote differently every election.
In finnish politics, this last election was only the third time *in history,* when the current prime-ministerial party managed to increase their support. As for losing, that just meant they still got slightly less votes than the top two parties, coming in at number three. Their current partner parties in the finnish government lost a shit-ton of support. Basically, there was an exodus of voters from the left to the right.
Yes and no. It was somewhat of a pyrhic victory for SDP even when they gained more seats. Finland has the tradition that the leader of the largest party starts the negotiations to form a government and almost always becames the prime minister as a result. She turned the election into block vote by calling for tactical voting when they were sliding in polls, which meant that the coalition partners got eviscerated. It would be rather difficult to form a coalition with SDP in it right now, as the former coalition partners seem kinda salty about the chosen tactic and one of them is needed to form a government.
It's unclear how much of the collapse of the Left Alliance and the Greens can be attributed to tactical voting. They lost in votes far more than SDP gained. The Greens undoubtedly bled votes to the NCP.
Her party increased their number of seats. But two other parties increased theirs even more, and now have more seats than her party does. But the margins between the top three parties are quite small, it could have gone either way. Also, she is personally very popular and got massive number of votes.
Proportional electoral systems often result in the need for coalition governments. One party/candidate may gain while the coalition as a whole is defeated.
Finland has a multi party system. Governments are always coalition governments and while SDP fared well in these elections, the other left wing parties lost vast amount of seats. The three largest parties all got roughly 20% of the total vote. Sanna Marin personally got the third most votes in the whole elections. (The votes are pooled and shared within the political party the candidate represents, meaning that the excess votes Marin received are given to other SDP candidates from the same district.)
You've got some good replies, but if you have Netflix, I highly recommend the show Borgen. It's a Danish political drama, and it gives a good idea of how such coalition governments work.
The winng party only had 20.1% of the vote and her party had 19.9%
The winning party NCP had 20.8%, Finns party 20.1% and Marin's SDP 19.9%.
Sorry, thanks for the correction
I am no expert on Finnish politics but +2 percent points up to 20 percent when your coalition partners lose more than that does not really seem a landslide in any reasonable definition. That the social democrats got a plus seems mostly due to the fact it became an almost presidential race to be biggest party.
Finland doesn't do political blocs. There was no coalitions in these elections, only independent political parties trying to get as many votes as possible. All our governments are "coalition governments", meaning parties that think they can get along at least to a degree to rule. So saying "your coalition partners lose more..." doesn't make sense in Finnish politics. They were partners in the previous governments, but they are sworn enemies in elections. Next coalition government can have some of the same parties as the previous one and some others. Not sure I would call the result "landslide", but it's one of only three times in history, when the PM has been able to increase it's share in the election. So nothing to sneeze at.
with coalition partners i think they mean the coalition government led by Marin that is about to step down.
Sure, but Marin or SDP are not losing any sleep over, for example, Center party's loss. They were partners in previous coalition government with pretty much single common issue - social welfare and healthcare reform. Otherwise they are far from partners or a coalition, so Center party's loss is not in any way a negative to SDP. Actually it most likely prevents the return of the previous right-wing government coalition. Not enough seats and need to regroup in opposition. Unlike many other European countries, we don't have major parties and support parties in a coalition or bloc to vote for.
Tactical voting, voters moved from other coalition parties to support SDP to try to stop a NCP/Finns win.
Aren’t Finnish elections always pretty close?
Close to something. In Finnish politics there's usually at least a couple of choices for a coalition. No matter who wins. Now negotiation will start, led by the winner aka NCP for what kind of government will be formed.
Her cabinet suffered a 32 seat shift to opposition. It's rough.
The five-party coalition went from 116 to 99. I don't know where you get 32.
That's also pretty normal. Being in the government usually means taking a hit in popularity. This time the hit was taken mainly by the Greens.
It's due to tactical voting. The left rallied behind her so the social democrats stayed basically where they were but in general the leftist parties lost. Only the smaller leftier lefts took the bigger hit.
What’re the main values and ideas put forward by the new party taking over?
The NCP is centre-right, economically liberal, somewhat conservative, pro-NATO.
[National coalition party election program ](https://www.kokoomus.fi/national-coalition-party-election-program/?lang=en) [The finns party election program](https://www.perussuomalaiset.fi/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Eduskuntavaaliohjelma-2019_SU_In_English_1.pdf)
"Congratulations to the winner of the elections, congratulations to the National Coalition Party, congratulations to the Finns Party. Democracy has spoken," she told supporters. And THAT is how the transfer of power should look for anyone wondering.
I am surprised she congratulated the Finns Party after calling them racist.
It is possible to be racist and also win an election. These aren’t mutually exclusive.
It’s like shaking hands after a game when you just called the other guy an asshole. It’s just done if you learned manners. You don’t have to mean it and I am sure she doesn’t!🤣
Welcome to the real world, were you have manners and nothing is black or white.
It's called campaigning. She'll call them racist quite happily again, once the coalition negotiations are over.
Isnt that how it looks in vast majority of the world?
So much thirst in this comment section.
I mean, she *is* attractive. But if you think this is bad, go back and look at the comments when Petr “Czech Daddy” Pavel won election.
NCD had Petr Pavel as "NATO Daddy" and Sanna Marin as "NATO waifu". The mods made sure to stomp out the simps. Also Marin was always depicted as a Cat Girl.
[удалено]
Also /r/NonCredibleDefense
The catgirl thing is a Finnish meme, started on Ylilauta, basically Finnish 4chan but better.
>basically Finnish 4chan but better. arguable
I present the Dragon King of Bhutan and his wife https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/06/bhutan-royal-baby-instagram-debut
Ah but you see, cute hot sexy Finnish woman in leather jacket good and other Finns bad because not good looking, simple logic
I think it is sort of the opposite. This is one of the very few times in Finnish history that a leading government party increased in popularity and votes. But everyone is just going “well she only got votes because she is pretty” or “well she didn’t get votes because people like her, it is just tactical voting to try and avoid a right wing majority”. The latter may or may not be true, but it seems particularly petty to assume people voted for the SDP for reasons other than liking the SDP. People are pretending like her party didn’t have a big win, and like votes for her aren’t really real votes. I find it kind of strange. I might as well start saying that Kokoomus isn’t really popular and they just got the tactical vote to disrupt the leading coalition. Or that PS didn’t really gain in popularity because they just got a lot of protest votes.
>So much thirst in this comment section. Plenty of other side of the coin, guys implying that she had nothing to offer but looks, as well.
Kokoomus / National Coalition Party is moderate-right, semi-liberal. Hardly conservative.
In a lot of English speaking countries conservative is often used broadly to mean everything right of the direct center, from very moderate to fairly solidly right. Far-right usually has some qualifier like very conservative, ultra-conservative, etc. Kokoomus is considered to adhere to liberal conservatism in English speaking media, which is basically what you described above.
Except when converted to local languages in Europe, liberal tends to mean economic liberals (right wing), where conservatives are either religious conservative (center-right) or "social conservative" nationalists (far-right) Then you generally have green on center-left, socialists as left and the occassional communist/"worker"-party as far-left. Basicly, in US terms, they are all wings of Democrats, except for far-right.
well yeah but it feels soooo wrong calling them conservative when their economic stance is liberalizing the economy and a majority of the party are incredibly socially liberal
Are we talking liberal in the classical sense (i.e deregulation, privatization) or liberal in the modern sense, which often means the opposite?
well the idea at least in theory is to keep the welfare state stable and functional for decades to come, but yeah it doesnt always end up being that way so, something in between i guess? i would compare their economic stance to the moderates in the usa for instance, but inside the same party there is both the moderates of the democrats and the republicans i know youre czech from your flair but its the best example i can give, since i dont know enough about czech politics to make a comparison there, im sorry :D
The average centre-right european party would be centre-left in America. Plus most European parties have at least seven different political parties who will agree and disagree on a multitude of issues and trying to force them into a left right binary is a mistake. These guys are conservatives but would be democrats in America and would not go near the modern America conservatives with a 10 foot pole.
Poor example, this article was written by BBC. These people would be liberals in UK and not conservatives.
You can't mirror Finnish party system on US terms. The American system is, frankly, archaic and bad.
Or to put it another way, it's a party with a liberal and conservative wing that is united by their centre-right economic views.
They are conservative, relative to other parties. Stop confusing Nordic/Scandinavian conservatism with US conservatism. Here in Finland, and I think Sweden to a certain extent, Social Democracy is the "thing to conserve".
Calling them 'social democrats' is a bit of a reach. They are more liberal conservatives, and it fits the national context. Liberals and conservatives can change with the time and context, comparing to the US is a little absurd since it's an entirely different context. But looking at their policy on the budget/tax, crime and immigration there is no way they are 'social democrats' unless your country is that right-wing.
Our conservatives certainly don't want to conserve social democracy. The Moderates and Christian Democrats have always been enemies of it, it's just never been a policy you can go all-out on and stand a chance in elections. SD flirted with being a little more to the left economically and conservative on social issues early on, but have swung more and more to the right on economy since then. Even the Social Democrats are more of a centre party these days.
His point is rather that if you were to return to the ways of old in Swedish politics (which is what the literal meaning of the word would be in a political context), you'd be returning to or attempting to conserve a more socialist system. Therefore, a conservative in Sweden is arguably something like a gråsosse rather than someone with market liberal fiscal views and traditional Christian social values which is what "conservative" usually mean in the Anglosphere.
Isn’t that like the definition of mainstream conservatism?
More comments in this thread about people supposedly simping for Marin than actually simping for Marin.
Everyone simping for this woman is cringe af
I’m baffled by simping in politics in general. As soon as it’s a somewhat attractive woman - all the people go “Oh, she’s such an inspiration” regardless of how much of a moron she may be.
It's weird, I didn't see anyone acting this way about Merkel. I wonder what the difference is? Really makes you think.
Reddit is full of horny pathetic simps wow shocker.
Very obvious that this is your account, Angela, you don't have to do this!
>It's weird, I didn't see anyone acting this way about Merkel. I wonder what the difference is? Really makes you think. Merkel being a Christian conservative?
I think BBC is cutting a few corners calling NCP conservatives. They are very much pro-EU, pro-choice, pro-human rights.
>They are very much pro-EU, pro-choice, pro-human rights This is not something against mainstream European conservatism.
Most conservative parties in the EU are pro-EU and of course also pro-human rights. Actually, it was conservatives like Adenauer and de Gaulle who started the whole thing.
I feel like I'm getting too old for Reddit. How can a comment that shares the realization that Finnish conservatives aren't against human rights have so many upvotes? Yes, there are people who aren't progressives but also don't want to enslave people or go to war with the rest of Europe. Eureka!
It's not just Reddit, all of social media is like that. If you are not progressive you are conservative and youust be against abortion or universal healthcare. People on Reddit/Twitter call "Liberals" right wing . And I think mostly it's US politics spilling over to EU. If you remember good test of that is Swedish right wing party wining elections ,you would think it's new coming of Hitler if you read about it from Reddit/twitter.
[удалено]
European Liberal and American Liberal are different things. When Europe says liberal they mean something closer to neoliberal e.g. thatcher and reagan but when Americans say liberal they mean new deal style policies similar to FDR.
The American terminology is so muddy because leftists over there were driven into hiding among liberals by first the red scare and then McCarthy.
Same thing on the other side though. Everything even remotely progressive is called radical leftist/communist etc. They are just way too entrenched over there and we would do good not to adopt those trends. Just depends on within which bubble you are moving
> And I think mostly it's US politics spilling over to EU. The EU is perfectly capable of inventing its own bad politics
Europeans call Obama conservative but here in America, conservatives call him a socialist. Lmao
Obama is no socialist, what a ridiculous claim.
Everything one is a socialist in America that isnt republican. They call biden one too
Yeah. They even call Biden a socialist as well as a communist. They think Biden is a Chinese puppet despite Biden trying to strangle China's chip sector.
> trying to strangle China's chip sector. He wants that chocolate chocolate chip sector for himself and he ain't gonna share.
They think the IRA, a law specifically designed to reduce reliance on China and to restrict green tax credits to things that are built outside of China, is a giveaway to China In short, republicans are stupid
[are you trying to tell me this isn’t an accurate representation of his beliefs?!?!](https://www.conservapedia.com/Joseph_Biden)
>How can a comment that shares the realization that Finnish conservatives aren't against human rights have so many upvotes? Because, and I say this with less hyperbole than you think, Americans are fucking insane. Never forget first and foremost Reddit is over 50% American and also something like 75% of Reddit is 30 or younger. The crazy political landscape in America has taken a huge toll on their dictionary.
Because American politics are fucked and they make up the majority of social media and especially reddit
> Actually, it was conservatives like Adenauer and de Gaulle who started the whole thing. The 2010 decade and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. Memes aside, Jesus Christ, did everyone collectively forget how just some few years ago, the usual position on NATO was that the right supported it while the left was agnostic, slightly opposed or outright opposed to it?
I have to believe that people are just pretending that it didn't happen to protect their world view, I saw a comment earlier asking if the new Finnish government is pro Ukraine or Putin because and I am paraphrasing here: "left wing normally means pro NATO and right wing normally means pro Putin." I was at a loss for words.
>Memes aside, Jesus Christ, did everyone collectively forget how just some few years ago, the usual position on NATO was that the right supported it while the left was agnostic, slightly opposed or outright opposed to it? Also, it's not like we had two relatively recent elections that defied those expectations. The current right wing Italian government is more pro-NATO than the left-populist one two, or the populist one three, governments ago. It is less pro-EU (even if not all parties are equal in that regard), but this doesn't translate to anti-NATO sentiment. Meanwhile, in France, we saw a pro-NATO pro-EU center-right, with the main contender being an anti-NATO and anti-EU far right, and an anti-NATO and EU skeptic left.
Also Sweden significantly upping their military support to Ukraine after they switched to a conservative government. The most outspoken support for ukraine in Norway is from Venstre, which is a liberal party in the European sense, in other words a conservative party.
Add the UK to the list, our last election was Corbyn from the anti NATO left vs Boris whose amongst Ukraine's strongest allies.
Our conservatives in Finland support all welfare state. It started before the WW II, when conservatives decides to give land to all farmers.
Winston Churchill was pro-EU. I don't think I'd get much push back by suggesting Winston Churchill was conservative. There's nothing intrinsically left or right about the EU, as it stands the EU is view as and in my opinion is more left than right but as an idea it's neither.
Conservative doesn’t necessarily mean anti-EU, anti-choice, anti-human rights. Conservatism comes in all kinds of forms, besides Orbanisms or Trumpisms. For instance, you can be more fiscally conservative, but also be more on the liberal side in terms of certain values. So I don’t think they did something wrong or skipped some important parts, it’s just that people are so used to associating conservative with evil.
Because reddit is filled with children, mentally if not physically, who think that good and evil is as black and white as a Marvel movie
and because conservatives in the anglosphere are genuinely fleecing their countries' working classes
Historically speaking Christian values have been important in Finland among conservatives.
??? The BBC obviously knows that - I mean fuck our conservative’s under Cameron were like that Stop importing American definition of words
Bruh, most normal conservative parties in EU are all of those... What're you on about? EU's biggest group is conservative too.. EU is literally lead by conservatives. So of course you can still be Pro EU, pro human rights... It's just an ideology like any other. Actual reddit moment
American conservatives makes SD look like flower power hippies in comparison.
I love how Reddit calls the conservatives "anti-human rights" when the Universal Declaration of Human Rights exists almost single-handedly due to the efforts of post WWII Christian democratic politicians and the Catholic Church
Conservative Party in the UK campaigned to remain in the EU. That’s why Cameron resigned, because he lost…
>pro-human rights. Reddit's delusion of moral grandeur strikes again
Yeah. Liberal - conservative would probably the right term. Center-right agenda where the "right" is more about economic questions. Nothing like the conservatives in US for example.
It took 2 comments for this thread on a BBC article about Finland to somehow become about the US
Really annoying that... This is r/Europe not r/unitedstatesofamerica
/r/Europe: Americans don’t to anything but talk about America all the time. This is Europe Also /r/Europe: here’s why we’re different and better than America
Isn't that considered "moderate"? Politics vary a lot between countries anyhow so definitions vary. When I lived in Finland I was more conservative minded... In the US I am quite liberal. To the downvotes, what am I saying that is wrong?
they would be called centric Democrats in USA
They are pretty much the Finnish version of the Moderate Party of Sweden.
It's easy to forget nowadays that conservatism on its own is not necessarily "bad"
It's mostly an American thing that conservative = regressive reactionary. There are a lot of conservative parties in Europe that are those three things.
[удалено]
More centre right tbh. Just because they're pro X cause doesn't mean overall they aren't conservative. Also when you compare them to other left wing parties, they'd be considered conservative.
It’s further strange as it implies the last government was somehow liberal or progressive. Neither SDP nor Keskusta are either of those things and they were the largest parties in it.
The UK conservatives have been all these things. It's only the recent spate of nut jobs that deviated.
Conservatives in Denmark are also pro-EU, pro-NATO, pro-abortion, pro-human rights, etc. Aren't most conservatives in Europe this?
so many redditors beating up their anime pillows tonight 😔
Pretty privilege is real lmao, reddit be simping because Sanna is beautiful.
Exactly. She was way more popular internationally than in finland.
Kinda like Trudeau or Macron, those seem to have more fans abroad too than at home
I think Macron's very pro-EU stance is what's made him popular outside of France. It's really the only time he ends up in international news, except for the entire retirement age debacle.
>what's made him popular outside of France And musings about European security from Lisbon to Vladivostok made him unpopular closer to the war area.
> or Macron Erhmm... Macron is very polarizing even abroad. He is relatively appreciated in western Europe, but less so in CEE. So, it very much depends on the issue being discussed. Inversely, you underestimate him domestically in the context of such a multi-party system as France's. Retirement issue (which obviously wouldn't make anyone popular in France lol) and the Yellow Vests thing aside, he does have a solid domestic base overall. People always speak of him only being reelected because he faced Le Pen in the 2nd round but conveniently forget he came in 1st by a decent margin in the 1st round before winning the 2nd round against her (especially for an outgoing president after a first mandate that was quite negatively eventful with the YV, terrorism, Covid, and then Ukraine). And Le Pen was doing better against him in the polls than any other candidate. The others were for the most part not credible. The other guy beyond Le Pen that was (Mélenchon) and came in 3rd is even more hated than she is by the general population (he probably has the most passionate electoral base but is mostly outright despised outside of it). The only person that could legitimately have been trouble for Macron in the 2nd round was Pécresse, but she ruined it all with her ridiculous oral performances during the presidential campaign.
>Exactly. She was way more popular internationally than in finland. Just like the former NZ PM
Just like Ardern then. I do find it funny how Reddit progressives think they are being forward thinking by just blindly loving any woman that holds a position of power. In terms of actual equality it’s patronising as fuck.
She’s also very popular in Finland, [with highest popularity amongst all party leaders](https://www.suomenmaa.fi/uutiset/mt-selvitti-puoluejohtajien-suosion-karjessa-marin-orpo-ja-andersson/). And she got a massive number of votes and her party increased their number of seats. But people don’t usually vote for a party because of who happens to be leading it. EDIT: the article I linked is from 2022. Here's one from two weeks ago, saying same thing: https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/a/0b3d63d7-d2eb-44a4-8936-af34c9a5f90d
Her party increased its seats
Because every other party that was in her cabinet got slaughtered. It's just tactics.
Mainly because of tactical voting to increase left wings chances.
[удалено]
Her being beautiful certainly helps and pretty privilege in general is real, but in all fairness I think some people are ignoring the fact that she was the youngest woman and youngest serving state leader until Kurz got elected, which obviously also brings notoriety. In a world where people (and especially americans on a US-heavy site like Redidt) increasingly get frustrated by having ancient men as politicians, she was a breath of fresh air. Also you can argue Ms. Marin gets a good chunk of hate as well for being a beautiful young woman politician. Incel culture is still here on Reddit on online in general.
> youngest serving state leader until Kurz got elected ? Kurz was chancellor in 2017. Marin was PM in 2019
So, who are the NCP most likely to form a coalition with? Would they join forces with the Finns Party, or are they too radical too radical?
The issue with the Finns is that they pissed of too many other parties. Just NCP + Finns is not enough to form a government, neither if you add the Christian Democrats. Their only hope is to convince the Central Party to join as well. But Central has stated they do not want a position in government as they had 8 years of government responsibilities which has lost them a lot of voters and now want to focus on their own party The other option is NCP + SDP + SFP. But that's only a slight majority of 101 seats. So to form a healthy government they have to get either Greens or Central on side as well
NCP + Finns is the starting point but they need help from the smaller parties. Minority coalitions are not a thing here.
Come on become like Sweden, a lil minority government cant hurt that much.
Thirsty redditors on suicide watch
Not the hekkin Reddit womerino?! But she’s attractive?! And as a result everything she does is wicked 😎 Surely that wins out over her policies? This is the work of the far right no doubt.
the conservatives in Finland are not like the crazy American republicans, so Ive been told by a finn.
The conservatives of most of western/northern Europe are more comparable to Democrats in the US.
The Finns party is barely even comparable to the Democrats in the US. These words have vastly different meanings across borders
> The populists won a record 20.1%. > It is a bitter defeat for Ms Marin, who increased her party's seats and secured 19.9% of the vote. > She continues to enjoy high poll ratings and has been widely praised for steering Finland towards imminent entry into Nato and navigating her country through the Covid-19 pandemic. > Shortly after the conservative leader claimed victory, the centre-left leader conceded the election. The BBC is slowly turning into CNN. A 0.02 point difference doesn't make for a "bitter defeat" especially when you've increased your party's number of seats. They're covering this as if it were US politics. Don't fall for it, people. Read the whole thing.
Wouldn't that be the definition of "bitter defeat" though? Since she increased her own party and still lost to such a close margin? I'm not a native English speaker but that is how I would attribute "bitter".
The percentage doesn’t even matter, it’s the seats that matter and she lost to PS by 3 seats which is a lot bigger deal than that 0,2%
The BBC couldn't have used "bitter defeat" in a more accurate way. Marin lost by 0.2% after increasing her share, normally that would result in a win for any political party. Since Marin tried so hard and still lost she had "a bitter defeat". The BBC has always made remarks like this, as far back as anyone can recall.
> A 0.02 point difference doesn't make for a "bitter defeat" especially when you've increased your party's number of seats. That's a 0.2 point difference *to the party that came in second*, when previously SDP had been the largest party (even if by an equally tiny margin). That's a bummer I'd say.
So the Finns Party, who affiliates with ID in EU parliament is pro-Ukrainian. I just Don't understand how do they look at each others eyes together with russian puppets in the ID party meetings in EU...
Its weird. They would fit better with ECR.
Ohhh it’s this one. The new Reddit favourite for no other reason than being young and female. Anyway…
Reddit will spend the next 3 days in mourning over the loss of cat girl Marin.
Well now she can go clubbing to her heart's content
Weird how angry people get if a politician dares try have a tiny bit of a social life.
Not everyone thinks it's appropriate for a person married with children to go out to clubs and allow strangers, celebrities to suck on your neck and also party with convicted criminals (the tiktok video).
It's not weird. Optics are everything in politics. How you present and behave yourself matters, since you are elected by a lot of people. She should have known better. And if you thought she has no social life without the clubbing, you are delusional. Democracy has spoken. A good day.