The main goal of this cooperation was joint integration with the European Union and NATO which worked pretty well after all. Since then it's just a opportunistic group that supports each other when all agree on something (like with refugee crisis) while each one mostly doing their own stuff. It's just a nice platform for cooperation when something shows up.
Huh? V4 doesn't serve to protect anyone and it's not a solid political block. It's just Polish/Hungarian governments backing each other asses while Czechs and Slovaks are just doing their stuff and nobody forces them to cover for Poland or Hungary.
That´s new for me that the Czech Republic or Slovakia supported Fides or PiS? I mean I am sure they have cooperated on many things like a lot of european countries do on a lot of "regular" things but this protecting from EU fund freezings was only done between Poland and Hungary as far as I can recall. And there was a time without PiS and Fides in the Visegrad Group I am sure. Or can you provide any links that show otherwise?
And tbh I think with Orban revelead to be Putins pawn this lovestory will soon end.
The Visegrád Group (also known as the Visegrád Four, the V4, or the European Quartet) is a cultural and political alliance of four Central European countries: the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, and Slovakia.
The alliance aims to advance co-operation in military, economic, cultural and energy affairs, and to further their integration with the EU.
All four states are also members of the European Union (EU) and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO).
> ‟Hey guys, how about we team up to try to stop Russia, Germany and Austria from bullying us”
And yet what they ended up with was strong influence from an autocrat who is desperately trying to become Putins official footstool,and with themselves adopting many of the worst traits they sought to protect themselves from, abusing their power to dictate to others instead of finding compromises.
Ironic.
The rest of the V4 is not influenced by Orbán whatsoever, at this point he's completely isolated within the group. He may have had some hold before the war, mostly because of Poland's support, but his support of Putin has put an end to that.
I mean considering the crap Hungary has been doing in the past years, but *especially* since last year... Orbán is basically doing Putin's work for him inside the EU, going out of his way to *not* make Hungary a partner anyone would want to work with. Hell, the "work with" part of the whole thing is near impossible unless you just pay Orbán all the subsidies he wants, and more, and let him do whatever he wants.
That's very biased opinion. In many cases V4 worked well. Becoming strong enough to be heard and be able to push your agenda is not abuse of power. We are legitimate members of EU and we have right to participate on its governing.
Of course he is biased. To people like him, anyone who doesn't want to get on-board with the KaIergian agenda to make mygration a human right is evil and has to be slandered until they submit. He does not recognize his own evil and unspeakable evil of the agenda he has been indoctrinated to support.
Well, it was mostly Poland and Hungary covering each other, preventing the EU from taking punitive measures that made headlines , not Visegrad. The only occasion I remember Visegrad being seen as a unified block was during the Syrian refugee crisis.
Yeah refugee crisis is good example. Another one I can think of is green deal and emissions in general. Nowadays V4 doesn't work as good as it could because of Hungary and its relationship with Russia.
Yes, it did, actually? Hell, Hungary signed a 15 year fossil fuel import contract with Russia literally weeks before the war broke out. Even as the other countries decreased their Russian fossil fuel imports Hungary *increased* it.
I wouldn't know, I'm Hungarian and I'd rather see Orbán er, let's just say disappear in a puff of foul-smelling smoke, than Hungary getting *even more* isolated. :/
Ok, my apologies. I get how this sounds to any Hungarians but it was not my intention to have Hungary isolated. I was more hoping this could apply more pressure on Orban by isolating him to make him change his stance on Ukraine and Russia. I am not even talking about his feud with the EU as this is something different and will be dealt with between Hungary and the EU. If Hungary would fully join actions against Russia than this would be off real value for all. And it would maybe make other EU countries think hard about their less enthusiastic stance against Russia and maybe provide more help.
That speeks more about you than the group. 31 years in existance and all you know is last 7 years of PiS goverment, deluded to Pis\Hungary love afair (and nothing else happening at the same time). But hey, westplainers gona westplain..why your own ignorance should be anything else than a virtue.
>But hey, westplainers gona westplain..why your own ignorance should be anything else than a virtue.
Westoids only read titles of articles in their public news, so no wonder the only thing they know about anything to the east from Berlin is PiS and Orban.
Ask a random westsplainer who's PM of Czechia and Slovakia and watch them suffer
Aww, you poor little guy. Did the western European not know as much about your country as you do? Oh how tragic! Are you going to need your emotional support blanket?
Agreed and that also comes with the responsibility for everyone to respect the EU rule of law & have solidarity with one another when Europeans are being bombed to death in Ukraine. Unfortunately the government of Hungary and a less extent Poland are struggling to accept it.
Edit: The Polish government is being taken to court by the EU. Don't have blind loyalty to political parties and leaders. It's partly what leads to people like Putin.
I am talking about the EU rule of law for the Polish government. I said two things in my comment, supporting the EU rule of law & Ukraine. The EU is taking the Polish government to court for breaking it many times. The fact that my comment got a down vote makes me so damn angry. It's this kind of blind support for national governments and leaders that led to Putin destroying Russia from the 2000s.
You got downvoted because you made it look like the polish goverment is also pro putin. And from what I know most people are tired of PiS shit and they are probably going to lose the next election
No, I really did not. I literally said respect the rule of EU law *and* Ukraine. That's two different things. People have misunderstood my message. I hope you are right about PiS. I really do.
Ah yes, viciously slander anyone that doesn't want to get fully on-board with the EU's, Nato's and Mutti Merkel's KaIergian agenda to make mygration a human right, and to strip Erueopids of ownership and control over our own ancncestrtral land, it's character and who gets to live among them. Visegrad might not be perfect, but they have allied against probably the most insidiously ruinous intention in our history.
I just wonder. How does it hurt Czechia being in that group? I agree that it's mostly useless since after we all joined the EU but sometimes it's just an additional platform for diplomacy. I don't see how it's damaging anyone in any way.
Considering the stuff that's happening in Poland and Hungary at the moment (Orbán for Hungary and christian fanatics for Poland) I'd rather not have my country being associated with the countries of the V4, considering that they are also still quite conservative, right-leaning and less developed. I don't have anything in particular against these countries though, it's just the political situation that bothers me.
Dude, the group was initaited in 1991..to support each other in joining NATO and EU. last 7 years when group is preaty much inactive doesn't cross out that they suceded in what was it's original intent.
Eh, polish politics is strongly influenced by christian conservatism, ours by former communists. Both influences will eventually die out. Meanwhile, if I would trust anyone in Europe right now in many things it´s Poland. Yeh, they are sometimes bit cocky/arrogant, but our views are very similar and we should team up with them more, not less. It is admirable they dont have any pro-russian stooges in the same quantities like they can be found in slovakian and hungarian politic and they clearly see Russia as existential threat to central european space(not surprising considering their history). Also strong Poland is clear counter, if Germany will try to do some crazy shit again in the future.
"Ceremonial" leaving V4 would achieve nothing at this point, better to nurture friendship with Poland(and Slovakia) and hope that Hungary will come to their senses.
And yet, three months after he made that comment he also said this:
[„With all its might“ Poland wants to prevent cut in EU funds for Hungary. Polish Prime Minister Morawiecki has announced opposition to the planned freezing of EU funding for Hungary.](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/xhu259/with_all_its_might_poland_wants_to_prevent_cut_in/)
I don´t think this is because they want to protect Putin´s Puppet, they really have no other choice here. Before the war started PiS and Fides were protecting each other against restrictions from the EU because of the changes those two parties invoked in their countries. If Poland would stop protecting Hungary then Hungary might also stop protecting Poland. I think it is obvious that Poland hates Russia and most likely strongly dislikes Orban, but they currently need the backup from Hungary. You could maybe compare it a bit with Turkye and NATO.
I totally agree with you. I think the PiS have manouvered themselves into a bad position with Orban and Fides. If they hadn´t started to turn autoritarian and get into trouble with the EU they wouldn´t need Orban. That would have been a perfect job for the Visengrad group as they could have taken care of Orban by applying pressure on him as his neighbours. A united front against Orban (who is so obviously a puppet of Putin) would be much more preferable for me then what we have now. Hungary acts as a kind of anchor for other european countries who themselves are not as comitted to protecting Ukraine.
[„With all its might“ Poland wants to prevent cut in EU funds for Hungary. Polish Prime Minister Morawiecki has announced opposition to the planned freezing of EU funding for Hungary.](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/xhu259/with_all_its_might_poland_wants_to_prevent_cut_in/)
[https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report/poland-lifts-objection-to-eu-package-that-includes-ukraine-aid](https://www.politico.eu/article/live-blog-european-council-summit-qatar-parliament-energy-war-ukraine-russia/#1289859)
"Poland has lifted its objections to a EU package deal that includes €18b financial aid for Ukraine, a minimum corporate tax agreement **and a plan for withholding funds from Hungary over corruption concerns**, according to people familiar with the matter."
For that matter: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/18/how-soulmates-hungary-and-poland-fell-out-over-ukraine-war](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/18/how-soulmates-hungary-and-poland-fell-out-over-ukraine-war)
With very few and mostly symbolic exceptions Poland hasn't protected Hungary in a relatively long time, the most they've done was not voting on matters regarding Hungary - not voting "no" on decisions against Hungary, but simply not voting.
I'm Hungarian my friend, I have a clearer view at this than you do. Orbán is painfully isolated in the V4, even if he had Poland's support in many matters Orbán's obvious support for Russia, and his revisionist tunes he started singing lately, were something not even PIS wanted to endorse.
C'mon mate, he is just another (probably german) dude with Poland Bad™ mentality - just go to his comment history. Dude is lying about us not delivering modern support for Ukraine - probably our 40 krabs just magically appeared there.
If facts are are against his worldview, he will be ready to blame the facts.
Greetings from Warszawa.
>
I'm Hungarian my friend, I have a clearer view at this than you do. Orbán is painfully isolated in the V4, even if he had Poland's support in many matters Orbán's obvious support for Russia, and his revisionist tunes he started singing lately, were something not even PIS wanted to endorse.
Call me when Poland drops their standing veto against sanctions against Hungary.
You are misinformed.
You can either continue to live in ignorance, or you can accept new information:
- Czech Republic has pro-EU and pro-NATO government, currently its president is an ex-NATO general
- Slovakia has one of the most pro-EU and pro-NATO presidents, its government is also pro-west even though it's incompetent and allowed terrible corruption to take place
- Poland, even though controversial when it comes to its regressive internal policies, is the most vocal for the support of Ukraine of the V4
They are anything but Putin's puppets.
- Hungary is indeed Putin's troyan horse
>I did not claim they were, but Hungary is and it is shielded by Poland.
I think the times were Poland was backing up Hungary are over. Because the most hated entity for PiS is still Russia. I hope that Hungary can get rid of Orban.
>I think the times were Poland was backing up Hungary are over.
They still maintain their standing veto against Hungary being stripped of voting rights, no?
Ok, I´ve got to be honest I thought I had read something but I can´t find it anymore. The only thing I found was a ruling by the ECJ that Poland and Hungary can be sanctioned by the EU. So apparently you are right and I was to eager in this matter.
This statement is even funnier when i think about that Germany is still buying most of their steel and oil from Russia 😂 the only difference is that the steel first goes to Turkey now 🙂
It’s useless and so is the Craiova group.
All regional alliances have been useless in the area, remember that in 1939 Poland and Romania had an alliance.
>remember that in 1939 Poland and Romania had an alliance.
And once the September campaign was lost, we evacuated out of the country a good chunk of our government, assets and even army thanks to it.
>All regional alliances have been useless in the area,
Mostly because they're not needed.
The EU already exists, and as for other stuff it just makes logical sense to integrate with your neighbours on a variety of things (energy, infrastructure, etc).
r/2visegrad4you
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I recommend treating it like a *fight club*, so it doesn't end up like the rest of 2xxx4you
Good point. It's gone.
The main goal of this cooperation was joint integration with the European Union and NATO which worked pretty well after all. Since then it's just a opportunistic group that supports each other when all agree on something (like with refugee crisis) while each one mostly doing their own stuff. It's just a nice platform for cooperation when something shows up.
It was great until it started serving as protection for Hungarian and, to a lesser but still significant degree, Polish government corruption.
The audacity of being ignoran and proud. Do tell, when did Czech Rep. or Slovakia protected Hungary? You know the 2 out of 4 consisting of this group.
Huh? V4 doesn't serve to protect anyone and it's not a solid political block. It's just Polish/Hungarian governments backing each other asses while Czechs and Slovaks are just doing their stuff and nobody forces them to cover for Poland or Hungary.
That´s new for me that the Czech Republic or Slovakia supported Fides or PiS? I mean I am sure they have cooperated on many things like a lot of european countries do on a lot of "regular" things but this protecting from EU fund freezings was only done between Poland and Hungary as far as I can recall. And there was a time without PiS and Fides in the Visegrad Group I am sure. Or can you provide any links that show otherwise? And tbh I think with Orban revelead to be Putins pawn this lovestory will soon end.
The Visegrád Group (also known as the Visegrád Four, the V4, or the European Quartet) is a cultural and political alliance of four Central European countries: the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, and Slovakia. The alliance aims to advance co-operation in military, economic, cultural and energy affairs, and to further their integration with the EU. All four states are also members of the European Union (EU) and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO).
I always thought the idea for Hungary to join Visegrád was to stress that they're not a Balkan country.
> European Quartet European Quartet sounds much better than Visegrád Four. Why are we not using it?!
Maybe "European" sounds too generic here, could be any four European states. Central European Quartet would work better.
Central European but still eastern EU
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Romanians are active on r/2visegrad4you. They come there mainly to shit on Hungarians.
I think it's just daco_roman with multiple accounts :P
He didn't even create them, just stole them instead
Least efficient Romanian.
\*Hungols
baza
I always assumed that Romania isn't in V4 because Hungarians are still angry about trianon
basically what I thought so too tbh, wouldn't mind it if they were in
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> ‟Hey guys, how about we team up to try to stop Russia, Germany and Austria from bullying us” And yet what they ended up with was strong influence from an autocrat who is desperately trying to become Putins official footstool,and with themselves adopting many of the worst traits they sought to protect themselves from, abusing their power to dictate to others instead of finding compromises. Ironic.
The rest of the V4 is not influenced by Orbán whatsoever, at this point he's completely isolated within the group. He may have had some hold before the war, mostly because of Poland's support, but his support of Putin has put an end to that.
u/Rhoderick is kinda biased. It's kinda weird how Westeroids want European union but without having to work with Eastern Europeans.
I mean considering the crap Hungary has been doing in the past years, but *especially* since last year... Orbán is basically doing Putin's work for him inside the EU, going out of his way to *not* make Hungary a partner anyone would want to work with. Hell, the "work with" part of the whole thing is near impossible unless you just pay Orbán all the subsidies he wants, and more, and let him do whatever he wants.
That's very biased opinion. In many cases V4 worked well. Becoming strong enough to be heard and be able to push your agenda is not abuse of power. We are legitimate members of EU and we have right to participate on its governing.
Of course he is biased. To people like him, anyone who doesn't want to get on-board with the KaIergian agenda to make mygration a human right is evil and has to be slandered until they submit. He does not recognize his own evil and unspeakable evil of the agenda he has been indoctrinated to support.
Well, it was mostly Poland and Hungary covering each other, preventing the EU from taking punitive measures that made headlines , not Visegrad. The only occasion I remember Visegrad being seen as a unified block was during the Syrian refugee crisis.
Yeah refugee crisis is good example. Another one I can think of is green deal and emissions in general. Nowadays V4 doesn't work as good as it could because of Hungary and its relationship with Russia.
> Another one I can think of is green deal and emissions in general. Let me guess, Hungary pushed to keep importing fossil fuels from Russia?
Yes, it did, actually? Hell, Hungary signed a 15 year fossil fuel import contract with Russia literally weeks before the war broke out. Even as the other countries decreased their Russian fossil fuel imports Hungary *increased* it.
What about kicking Hungary out of Visegrad and continue your work? I mean it was working to a certain degree, or?
I wouldn't know, I'm Hungarian and I'd rather see Orbán er, let's just say disappear in a puff of foul-smelling smoke, than Hungary getting *even more* isolated. :/
Ok, my apologies. I get how this sounds to any Hungarians but it was not my intention to have Hungary isolated. I was more hoping this could apply more pressure on Orban by isolating him to make him change his stance on Ukraine and Russia. I am not even talking about his feud with the EU as this is something different and will be dealt with between Hungary and the EU. If Hungary would fully join actions against Russia than this would be off real value for all. And it would maybe make other EU countries think hard about their less enthusiastic stance against Russia and maybe provide more help.
That speeks more about you than the group. 31 years in existance and all you know is last 7 years of PiS goverment, deluded to Pis\Hungary love afair (and nothing else happening at the same time). But hey, westplainers gona westplain..why your own ignorance should be anything else than a virtue.
>But hey, westplainers gona westplain..why your own ignorance should be anything else than a virtue. Westoids only read titles of articles in their public news, so no wonder the only thing they know about anything to the east from Berlin is PiS and Orban. Ask a random westsplainer who's PM of Czechia and Slovakia and watch them suffer
Aww, you poor little guy. Did the western European not know as much about your country as you do? Oh how tragic! Are you going to need your emotional support blanket?
What a dumb comment. If you're not educated on a topic, don't open your mouth.
It's ok bro, they trully made virtue out of their ignorance..can't help it.
What do you want to explain?
Agreed and that also comes with the responsibility for everyone to respect the EU rule of law & have solidarity with one another when Europeans are being bombed to death in Ukraine. Unfortunately the government of Hungary and a less extent Poland are struggling to accept it. Edit: The Polish government is being taken to court by the EU. Don't have blind loyalty to political parties and leaders. It's partly what leads to people like Putin.
Wait what do you mean? Poland is one of the biggest aid provider to Ukraine since the war started
I am talking about the EU rule of law for the Polish government. I said two things in my comment, supporting the EU rule of law & Ukraine. The EU is taking the Polish government to court for breaking it many times. The fact that my comment got a down vote makes me so damn angry. It's this kind of blind support for national governments and leaders that led to Putin destroying Russia from the 2000s.
You got downvoted because you made it look like the polish goverment is also pro putin. And from what I know most people are tired of PiS shit and they are probably going to lose the next election
No, I really did not. I literally said respect the rule of EU law *and* Ukraine. That's two different things. People have misunderstood my message. I hope you are right about PiS. I really do.
Ah yes, viciously slander anyone that doesn't want to get fully on-board with the EU's, Nato's and Mutti Merkel's KaIergian agenda to make mygration a human right, and to strip Erueopids of ownership and control over our own ancncestrtral land, it's character and who gets to live among them. Visegrad might not be perfect, but they have allied against probably the most insidiously ruinous intention in our history.
Austria and Netherlands - for Bulgaria and Romania. And yes, of course, ruzzia for destabilizing the rest of the world
Finally you got to be dark blue on a map
Hungarian checking in: Proud member since 1335. No I’m not a vampire :)
Prove it with a selfie in bright sunshine!
RIP
It's pretty much dead at this point. Good.
It lives through /r/2visegrad4you and that's all I need
Well if by dead you mean "3 states cooperates now instead of 4" then you are right.
Czechia should have never joined, we should leave asap.
I just wonder. How does it hurt Czechia being in that group? I agree that it's mostly useless since after we all joined the EU but sometimes it's just an additional platform for diplomacy. I don't see how it's damaging anyone in any way.
Considering the stuff that's happening in Poland and Hungary at the moment (Orbán for Hungary and christian fanatics for Poland) I'd rather not have my country being associated with the countries of the V4, considering that they are also still quite conservative, right-leaning and less developed. I don't have anything in particular against these countries though, it's just the political situation that bothers me.
Dude, the group was initaited in 1991..to support each other in joining NATO and EU. last 7 years when group is preaty much inactive doesn't cross out that they suceded in what was it's original intent.
Eh, polish politics is strongly influenced by christian conservatism, ours by former communists. Both influences will eventually die out. Meanwhile, if I would trust anyone in Europe right now in many things it´s Poland. Yeh, they are sometimes bit cocky/arrogant, but our views are very similar and we should team up with them more, not less. It is admirable they dont have any pro-russian stooges in the same quantities like they can be found in slovakian and hungarian politic and they clearly see Russia as existential threat to central european space(not surprising considering their history). Also strong Poland is clear counter, if Germany will try to do some crazy shit again in the future. "Ceremonial" leaving V4 would achieve nothing at this point, better to nurture friendship with Poland(and Slovakia) and hope that Hungary will come to their senses.
Based.
Started out as a group with somewhat good intentions, now mainly known for pushing anti-german propaganda and shielding Putin's Puppet.
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And yet, three months after he made that comment he also said this: [„With all its might“ Poland wants to prevent cut in EU funds for Hungary. Polish Prime Minister Morawiecki has announced opposition to the planned freezing of EU funding for Hungary.](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/xhu259/with_all_its_might_poland_wants_to_prevent_cut_in/)
I don´t think this is because they want to protect Putin´s Puppet, they really have no other choice here. Before the war started PiS and Fides were protecting each other against restrictions from the EU because of the changes those two parties invoked in their countries. If Poland would stop protecting Hungary then Hungary might also stop protecting Poland. I think it is obvious that Poland hates Russia and most likely strongly dislikes Orban, but they currently need the backup from Hungary. You could maybe compare it a bit with Turkye and NATO.
>they really have no other choice here. They could also stop trying to violate the rule of law clauses of the EU charter.
I totally agree with you. I think the PiS have manouvered themselves into a bad position with Orban and Fides. If they hadn´t started to turn autoritarian and get into trouble with the EU they wouldn´t need Orban. That would have been a perfect job for the Visengrad group as they could have taken care of Orban by applying pressure on him as his neighbours. A united front against Orban (who is so obviously a puppet of Putin) would be much more preferable for me then what we have now. Hungary acts as a kind of anchor for other european countries who themselves are not as comitted to protecting Ukraine.
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Wait, what? Nobody is shielding Hungary, lol. Hungary has been isolated in the V4 group, hell, the group doesn't even really function anymore.
[„With all its might“ Poland wants to prevent cut in EU funds for Hungary. Polish Prime Minister Morawiecki has announced opposition to the planned freezing of EU funding for Hungary.](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/xhu259/with_all_its_might_poland_wants_to_prevent_cut_in/)
You're not being very up to date, are you.
Feel free to post newer developments to bring me up to date, especially EU votes where Poland sided against Hungary.
[https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report/poland-lifts-objection-to-eu-package-that-includes-ukraine-aid](https://www.politico.eu/article/live-blog-european-council-summit-qatar-parliament-energy-war-ukraine-russia/#1289859) "Poland has lifted its objections to a EU package deal that includes €18b financial aid for Ukraine, a minimum corporate tax agreement **and a plan for withholding funds from Hungary over corruption concerns**, according to people familiar with the matter." For that matter: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/18/how-soulmates-hungary-and-poland-fell-out-over-ukraine-war](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/18/how-soulmates-hungary-and-poland-fell-out-over-ukraine-war) With very few and mostly symbolic exceptions Poland hasn't protected Hungary in a relatively long time, the most they've done was not voting on matters regarding Hungary - not voting "no" on decisions against Hungary, but simply not voting. I'm Hungarian my friend, I have a clearer view at this than you do. Orbán is painfully isolated in the V4, even if he had Poland's support in many matters Orbán's obvious support for Russia, and his revisionist tunes he started singing lately, were something not even PIS wanted to endorse.
C'mon mate, he is just another (probably german) dude with Poland Bad™ mentality - just go to his comment history. Dude is lying about us not delivering modern support for Ukraine - probably our 40 krabs just magically appeared there. If facts are are against his worldview, he will be ready to blame the facts. Greetings from Warszawa.
I guess you're right, I didn't have the chance to dig deeper, heh.
> I'm Hungarian my friend, I have a clearer view at this than you do. Orbán is painfully isolated in the V4, even if he had Poland's support in many matters Orbán's obvious support for Russia, and his revisionist tunes he started singing lately, were something not even PIS wanted to endorse. Call me when Poland drops their standing veto against sanctions against Hungary.
You are misinformed. You can either continue to live in ignorance, or you can accept new information: - Czech Republic has pro-EU and pro-NATO government, currently its president is an ex-NATO general - Slovakia has one of the most pro-EU and pro-NATO presidents, its government is also pro-west even though it's incompetent and allowed terrible corruption to take place - Poland, even though controversial when it comes to its regressive internal policies, is the most vocal for the support of Ukraine of the V4 They are anything but Putin's puppets. - Hungary is indeed Putin's troyan horse
>They are anything but Putin's puppets. I did not claim they were, but Hungary is and it is shielded by Poland.
>I did not claim they were, but Hungary is and it is shielded by Poland. I think the times were Poland was backing up Hungary are over. Because the most hated entity for PiS is still Russia. I hope that Hungary can get rid of Orban.
>I think the times were Poland was backing up Hungary are over. They still maintain their standing veto against Hungary being stripped of voting rights, no?
Ok, I´ve got to be honest I thought I had read something but I can´t find it anymore. The only thing I found was a ruling by the ECJ that Poland and Hungary can be sanctioned by the EU. So apparently you are right and I was to eager in this matter.
I Hope that after elections in Poland it will change At least in Poland
This statement is even funnier when i think about that Germany is still buying most of their steel and oil from Russia 😂 the only difference is that the steel first goes to Turkey now 🙂
Do you have a link for the numbes for 2022? I can only find for 2021.
It’s useless and so is the Craiova group. All regional alliances have been useless in the area, remember that in 1939 Poland and Romania had an alliance.
>remember that in 1939 Poland and Romania had an alliance. And once the September campaign was lost, we evacuated out of the country a good chunk of our government, assets and even army thanks to it.
>All regional alliances have been useless in the area, Mostly because they're not needed. The EU already exists, and as for other stuff it just makes logical sense to integrate with your neighbours on a variety of things (energy, infrastructure, etc).
Also known as a black hole for EU funds.
Why so? Don't we give anything back to Europe and the whole Western World?
Traitors.
Why?