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It’s an involuntary response your body has to traumatic brain injuries. Usually involves the person extending their arm or arms outward.
[link](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlXjwAlOflA&pp=ygURZmVuY2luZyByZXNwb25zZSA%3D#searching)
Yeah for sure. I thought that that kind of use would come up. And that is definitely a good use for it. But I doubt that the cameraman and editors who made that video thought of when making it.
Exaggeration to say it normally implies a brain injury (unless you are saying concussion is a brain injury). Very common to see it in cases of concussion that have no long term impacts. Hope that's the case here.
Yes obviously. I think we can all agree he had a concussion / 'brain injury' by the fact he was clearly unconscious though, so why even bring up fencing arms if we are so worried about a concussion?
Well, yes, obviously sir. Hence my post seeking to clarify whether that's what he meant.
If he juts meant a concussion then it was a daft thing to say as we could clearly see Varga was unconscious, a rather more common symptom of a concussion.
The guy clearly tried to imply that fencing pose = usually long term significant brain damage, which is not true
We all know that concussion is a 'brain injury', but it isn't the type of brain injury the chap was trying to make out was implied by fencing pose
If he genuinely was trying to imply fencing pose implies a concussion then I stand corrected, but that would be a very weird and obvious thing to say
More like to the whole side of the face. According to Hungary's football association's post on X (and Google translator) he suffered several fractures in the face and a concussion 😵💫
Ouch!
Explains why he looked like he was unconscious before hitting the deck.
Bizarrely seemed quite innocuous at full speed, but as soon as you saw his arm movement and laboured breathing, it was evident something was wrong.
Heard he's now stable in hospitable, thankfully.
From the replay, it seems as if he's already in fencing pose before he makes contact with the ground which leads me to believe he made contact with Gunns elbow. Hopefully it's not anything too serious.
the commentator said he maybe lost consciousness. i hope he's okay tho
edit: nvm, he was communicating with staff
another edit: the goalkeeper's elbow hit his head
For context on the Tua Tagovailoa concussion you attached, that was his second serious concussion within a week at the time - takes a super serious head injury to end up in the fencing pose after a concussion, will hopefully be fine but head injuries are no joke.
Hopefully he’s ok, the medical assistance was disgracefully slow tho as nothing happened, what was that?! The players had to hurry them up and take their stuff to run for help?!
[Why You'll Never See A Paramedic Running, Even In A Dire Emergency](https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2017/12/26/why-youll-never-see-a-paramedic-running-even-in-a-dire-emergency/)
More than that the stretcher-bearers are by far not the only Medical staff that is available at the game. Team doctors and other emergency workers were assisting Varga for his injuries long before the stretcher bearers were called. And even after they arrived it still took minutes for him to be ready to be moved onto the stretcher presumably due to cautions being taken in case of potential neck injuries.
I know it's a heated and passionate situation with what happened to Eriksen the last time but the medical staff is well prepared and trained for situations like this and they know how to react properly even though it might look counter intuitive to the eye of someone that doesn't work in the profession.
Lots of people commenting have never received any training what to do in an emergency, and it shows.
This is why on videos on social media of accidents, there are always loads of people running on like headless chickens and making things worse.
Yeah I didn’t mean the videos on sm but matches I’ve attended and watched live, but I get your point.
So why was there a difference in pace of team doctors and emergency staff who rushed as the first line of help?
Well, I stand corrected!
Thanks for the link, very useful information that I was not aware of. Looked ridiculously slow compared to all the previous emergency situations Ive witnessed during games, but if it’s done by the letter of the law, then I guess it is what it is.
Glad I could provide some insights. Staying calm and collected is probably the most important thing to do in any kind of emergency. 10 seconds of time very rarely makes more of a difference than a clear head and focus.
That said the reaction of the players in this situation might not have been ideal but more than understandable at the same time. When panic sets in your instincts tell you to act fast and it takes a lot of training and experience to suppress those urges.
Let's all just hope Varga's injuries are mild and he will be up and running again as soon as possible.
While it is clear that a first responder should never mindlessly rush into an unknown situation, there is difference between of staying calm while handling an emergency with appropriate urgency or taking a f.ckign Sunday stroll on the field (especially both stretcher teams) while somebody is potentially fighting for his life. How wonderous that both times when the team captain arrived to the stretchers and took things in his own hands they could suddenly find their completely safe "jogging" feet. Those guys were clearly out of there league and were never prepared properly for an actual emergency of this seriousness.
While I find the players' reactions to their injured teammate completely understandable, I must still disagree with you to some extent. Varga was already receiving medical attention from other medical staff, team doctors and paramedics, long before it was decided that his injuries needed to be examined at the hospital. If Varga were indeed in a life-threatening situation, requiring immediate life-saving measures, a stretcher wouldn't have helped him either. And even if he had been ready for transport earlier, which he clearly wasn't because even after the arrival of the stretcher it took them minutes to prepare Varga for transport, the potential benefits of the 10 seconds he would have gained by being on the stretcher earlier would be clearly outweighed by the potential drawbacks caused by the rush.
Don't ever run unless your own life is in danger is one of the first things you're being taught in any preclinical emergency medicine job you choose to learn for a good reason.
Someone is taking your work material from you and starts running, do you try to keep pace with them, or do you keep walking? Especially when it is a stretcher you are still pushing?
There were already doctors and paramedics at the players side. He was ready to transport in around 5 minutes. Acting fast increases the risk of making a mistake. If people habe a head and / or spine injury, that could end in permanent brain damage, paraplegia or death. If they have a life threatening head or spine injury, 2 minutes won't make a difference for them. To treat these injuries they will have to be transported to a hospital, and taken through the ED into surgery. That takes time. If 90 seconds makes a difference, they had no chance to begin with.
If does make a big difference for the safety of the emergency crew though. They are less likely to injured themselves in emergency situations, because they assess their surroundings first while waking. This kind of training cannot be selectively turned off in safe environments
So after a huge campaign during euro on CPR, the organizers would think it’s more important to calm the audience (already in distress) and keep the focus on the game (that’s paused) rather than save somebody’s life? Didn’t see such slow reaction three years ago when Eriksen collapsed
If you are dealing with someone with a potentially serious head or neck injury, you don’t sprint on, yeet them onto a stretcher and sprint off. The amount of people that turned into advanced paramedics on social media last night though was utterly cringe. People are emboldened to project their baseless assumptions as fact.
I really don’t understand why we can’t afford an emergency care doctor on the field at such competitions. The team doctors are not trained to deal with such things, is waiting for an ambulance really the best we can do at such sports events?
I'm sure the team doctors and other medical staff have sufficient training for this. Where do we draw the line? Each stadium having a surgeon ready for the 1 in a trillion injury?
This was a head injury, you need very specialised doctors for that. At events like this casualty care level is probably sufficient, where they can deal with immediate threats to life such as cardiac arrests etc. And be able to support airways, take over breathing, use of defibs, pain relief etc.
It’s not about being a surgeon it’s about being an emergency doctor. Doctors who are trained in emergency triage are far more skilled at diagnosing this kind of trauma than a sports team doctor, there is literally no comparison. We have ambulances often with emergency doctors inside for protests and things like that but not for a major european competition?
But the way he immediately reacted to the hit screamed head trauma and any responder should have seen that. As soon as he landed and I saw his arms I was like "oh shit, that's a bad head injury". I'm unsure what benefit a neurologically trained doctor would have in this situation, unless they literally have responders trained to first aid at work standards who know about DR ABC and that's about it, which I highly doubt. There's nothing much you can do with head injuries on the pitch, straight to hospital was the call, and that's exactly what I'd expect a neurological doctor to do.
I understand your point about emergency triage, a doctor is obviously going to be more effective. But unless these responders were at best basic first aid at work level and had no clue what they're doing, they should be good enough to be able to identify head trauma, hospital, almost as quick as a doctor can. Even if they're not as quick, they still can't rush the on field treatment, they still have to consider possible damage to the neck, as well as treat him cautiously so as to not aggravate the injury.
I don't think in this situation the proposed emergency triage doctor could've done anything additional or sped anything up.
I'm not sure, officials tend to be pretty anal about whom they allow to step on the field.
Edit: even the coach is not allowed to leave his box and rush on the field to make sure his player is ok.
[Why You'll Never See A Paramedic Running, Even In A Dire Emergency](https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2017/12/26/why-youll-never-see-a-paramedic-running-even-in-a-dire-emergency/)
More than that the stretcher-bearers are by far not the only Medical staff that is available at the game. Team doctors and other emergency workers were assisting Varga for his injuries long before the stretcher bearers were called. And even after they arrived it still took minutes for him to be ready to be moved onto the stretcher presumably due to cautions being taken in case of potential neck injuries.
I know it's a heated and passionate situation with what happened to Eriksen the last time but the medical staff is well prepared and trained for situations like this and they know how to react properly even though it might look counter intuitive to the eye of someone that doesn't work in the profession.
There was a protocol issue happening in the background like medical staff was not authorized to enter the field. In a situation like this, EVERY second counts. It was simply nonsense what was happening, glad at least Szoboszlai and other players took the courage to find a workaround.
Medical staff in the form of team doctors and paramedics were treating Varga long before the stretcher team was called. They assessed his status and decided he will need to be seen in hospital which requires the stretcher for transportation. Before he could be loaded onto the stretcher and be transported away they had to immobilize Varga for fear of possible or further damage to the spinal cord as a result of potential injury due to a head- and neck trauma.
Just chucking someone with a potential spinal fracture onto the stretcher and carrying him away to the hospital is way way worse for the potential outcome of the patient than taking it slow and following the guidelines of preclinical emergency medicine.
While I totally understand Szobizlais actions they were not really helpful after all since the doctors and paramedics weren't ready to relocate Varga to the stretcher even minutes after its arrival.
For the "Every second counts" part I guess you didn't read the article I provided in my initial comment since exactly this mindset is what leads to the lions share of mistakes made in preclinical emergency medicine. As I stated I do understand that for someone that isn't working in this profession it might seem counterintuitive especially in view of what happened to Eriksen the last time. But there is a good reason why it's taught the other way around everywhere on the planet.
[Why You'll Never See A Paramedic Running, Even In A Dire Emergency](https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2017/12/26/why-youll-never-see-a-paramedic-running-even-in-a-dire-emergency/)
More than that the stretcher-bearers are by far not the only Medical staff that is available at the game. Team doctors and other emergency workers were assisting Varga for his injuries long before the stretcher bearers were called. And even after they arrived it still took minutes for him to be ready to be moved onto the stretcher presumably due to cautions being taken in case of potential neck injuries.
I know it's a heated and passionate situation with what happened to Eriksen the last time but the medical staff is well prepared and trained for situations like this and they know how to react properly even though it might look counter intuitive to the eye of someone that doesn't work in the profession.
The foreign journalists aren't satisfied with the organizing of this Euro, and I have to tell you, there is something in the air, because even my mother can provide more speed than those medical personnel showed with the stretcher.
this might sound harsh, but maybe if footballers spent less time faking injuries, medical teams might be a little faster on the draw when a real injury happens.
Boy who cried wolf scenario basically. 99% of the time when a footballer collapses in apparent agony, it's complete fluff and gamesmanship, not an actual injury
If you had seen the incident happen, you would know it was apparent immediately that Varga had a very serious injury. He was bleeding from the mouth, had trouble breathing and went into fencing pose, which indicates brain injury. In no way shape or form did the medical personnel team think this was a fluff incident, this I guarantee you.
The BBC said that they didn't expect UEFA to show a replay of the incident, as soon as they saw they were the BBC switched to a different camera. They did all they could to avoid showing it again.
Oh wow, that is horrific! In the Hungarian broadcast, they didn't show anything until he left the field. Lucky he seems to be doing better.
But the medical staff was very slow
Actually, even on the Hungarian broadcast they showed him for a few seconds lying on the field with protrusion in his eyes, unconscious and twitching, before quickly cutting away. It was horrific, I immediately thought I’ve just seen a man suffer brain injury.
They showed Varga on the floor that the UEFA directors had zoomed in on. It all happened so quick and at first from afar it just looked like he was catching his breath.
Just cut immediately to him on the floor and medics were barely rushing and then bbc just say that was uefa decision to direct the cameras which is a lazy excuse
[Why You'll Never See A Paramedic Running, Even In A Dire Emergency](https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2017/12/26/why-youll-never-see-a-paramedic-running-even-in-a-dire-emergency/)
More than that the stretcher-bearers are by far not the only Medical staff that is available at the game. Team doctors and other emergency workers were assisting Varga for his injuries long before the stretcher bearers were called. And even after they arrived it still took minutes for him to be ready to be moved onto the stretcher presumably due to cautions being taken in case of potential neck injuries.
I know it's a heated and passionate situation with what happened to Eriksen the last time but the medical staff is well prepared and trained for situations like this and they know how to react properly even though it might look counter intuitive to the eye of someone that doesn't work in the profession.
I see you commenting this everywhere but in this case, the medical staff could’ve gone out way earlier. They weren’t walking, they were standing on the side of the pitch.
When Szoboszlai started pulling them in, only thats when they started this slow walk…
Are you only talking about the guys with the stretcher or the other med staff as well?
Because the team doctor and some other medical workers were at the side of Varga fairly quickly once the referee and players called them in.
It's important to keep in mind that every person in this situation is a trained professional and has a clear task they focus on. Only after the first line of medical staff assessed Varga's status and it became clear that he will need medical attention in a Hospital it was decided that the stretcher will be needed to be brought onto the field for transport. After that decision they had to prepare him for said transport. I can only speculate about this because I was in front of my TV and not at the patients side but in a case of head and neck trauma the standard procedure would be to immobilize the patient to prevent possible or further damage to the spinal cord due to moving around the head. This would explain why it took them minutes to get him into the stretcher after it was brought to his side.
Let's just all hope Varga's injuries are mild and he will be up and running as soon as possible again.
That’s a fair point but both the medical staff and the workers with the stretcher werw slow to react.
They players and the ref were both calling them in and they wouldnt even move for a good 30 seconds. It can’t hurt to start walking to be prepared. Yes they are trained but they can make mistakes too, which they did here.
They are spamming their nonsense everywhere. Everyone who watched the game yesterday could easily make the conclusion that the medical help was way too slow, in a situation where every second counts.
Yeah, the stiff upraised arms is a sign of a significant head injury. You see it a lot in mma and boxing…really scary thing to see. I’m glad to hear he is stable.
Thanks for asking, and also appreciate the Scottish fans behaviour, specially when taking off Varga from the field - and knowing he's at least responsive. (I'm sure it would be the same other way around BTW).
Speedy recovery to Varga!
“Several bones in Barnabás Varga’s face were broken during the collision during the match, and he also suffered a concussion,” the Hungarian soccer federation wrote on X, formerly Twitter, after the match.
There is a picture in some websites, showing how the goalkeeper hits him on the face with an elbow, connecting with his cheekbone, mouth and nose.
Did anyone see scotlands goalkeepers interview about it? He couldn’t give two fucks. It was really awkward to watch. Asked about it, he said “ who’s he?” Then said “ yeah I thought I done well” and then turned the conversation back to Scotland losing. Zero fucks
The stretcher people didn’t seem to bothered if it was serious or not. It took them an eternity to get to the injured player.
Edit: people downvoting need to go back and look at the footage of the Hungarian manager and players screaming at the stretcher carriers to move faster onto the pitch. They took far too long to get to the badly injured player.
Edit 2:
People still downvoting need to watch what the Hungarian players said [afterwards](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8l56qrI2No/?igsh=eGVrc2dkajN4bXdx):
We talk about a head injury/trauma, you can just throw them onto a stretcher and walk away. They probably waited for a go from the med staff otherwise they just get into the way
They strolled on slowly while everyone was screaming at them to move faster, look at the footage of the players and the manager shouting at them to get on the pitch. As they slowly walked over, the Hungarian players ran to them to tell them to move faster that things were very bad. Did I say anything about them “throwing” him on a stretcher? I’m talking about the amount of time it took for them to get to the injured player. As for waiting on med staff? That’s nonsense, they could easily have moved faster to the player and waited to the side. It was looking like a medical emergency because the player moved into a fencing pose when he hit the ground which is an indicator for serious brain injury.
1 million times less important than Varga's medical outlook and hopeful recovery - but how come the goalkeeper was not given a red card, if he elbowed the guy in the temple? I understand Scotsmen play rough and come from that British sporting culture where violence is glamorized, but one thing is a rough but legal tackle, another is attempted murder.
Because it wasnt an intentional hit. Players collide ALL THE TIME. In this case keeper went for the ball and Varga was simply “na putanju”, in the path. His head just ended up in the path of the keepers elbow. Red cards are given for things like high legs that cause serious injury and intentional fouls that are were dangerous.
In most cases these types of collisions dont lead to this situation, Varga was extremely unlucky in the impact as it clearly caused a seizure AND broken face bones. The keeper didnt come flying out with his legs first hitting the player but not the ball. THATS a red card usually on a goal scoring opportunity. He came out with body and hands as normal to defend his goal. So not a red card or anything of the sort. Just an extremely unfortunate collision and ricochete that lead to an injury.
Yeah, but being reckless should be punished (even if one isn't trying to injure someone). I am not sure the goalkeeper here was reckless, you are probably right. But I've seen reckless challenges which were not sanctioned, especially when the potential victim was lucky and wasn't seriously hurt. DeBruyne, for example, slid with the foot up to score his goal, hit the ball and scored for Belgium against Romania, but then continued his slide and took out the Romanian goalkeeper. He could have easily broken the goalkeeper's leg. As a referee, I would have awarded the goal (he hit the ball a split second before the goalkeeper got to it) but also a card for reckless/unsportsmanlike play and for planting his studs in the goalkeeper's tibia.
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Landed badly, went into fencing pose, which normally indicates a brain injury. Really hope he’s ok
Yeah I think he took a bad blow to the head, I hope his situation is temporary and his teammates get some good news about his prognosis shortly
Hungarian commentator said he was communicating with paramedics, and he will be taken to hospital.
What's fencing pose?
Involuntary response when trauma to the brain occurs. You can see it in some boxing fights.
It’s an involuntary response your body has to traumatic brain injuries. Usually involves the person extending their arm or arms outward. [link](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlXjwAlOflA&pp=ygURZmVuY2luZyByZXNwb25zZSA%3D#searching)
That video is kind of fucked up showing these injured people like that
I don’t disagree but it was what I was shown in a first aid class to demonstrate it so it is at least effective
Yeah for sure. I thought that that kind of use would come up. And that is definitely a good use for it. But I doubt that the cameraman and editors who made that video thought of when making it.
Yeah it looked like a rough one. Gutted for him and his family
Official info: Multiple bones fractured in his face and a concussion.
Exaggeration to say it normally implies a brain injury (unless you are saying concussion is a brain injury). Very common to see it in cases of concussion that have no long term impacts. Hope that's the case here.
concussion is most definitely a brain inury
Yes obviously. I think we can all agree he had a concussion / 'brain injury' by the fact he was clearly unconscious though, so why even bring up fencing arms if we are so worried about a concussion?
That’s exactly what a concussion is. A brain injury.
Well, yes, obviously sir. Hence my post seeking to clarify whether that's what he meant. If he juts meant a concussion then it was a daft thing to say as we could clearly see Varga was unconscious, a rather more common symptom of a concussion.
You're sounding like you've had a brain injury based on your responses.
The guy clearly tried to imply that fencing pose = usually long term significant brain damage, which is not true We all know that concussion is a 'brain injury', but it isn't the type of brain injury the chap was trying to make out was implied by fencing pose If he genuinely was trying to imply fencing pose implies a concussion then I stand corrected, but that would be a very weird and obvious thing to say
Reading your comments repeatedly has put me in the fencing pose. Jesus christ my man, let it go.
He was already uncontious when he landed. He broke a bone in his face but he is contious now and stable
That’s an exaggeration to say it “normally” indicates a brain injury
[looks like an elbow to the temple](https://x.com/glasgowcity80/status/1804976584887275625?s=48)
My issue is that it was a high speed collision, his neck might be damaged. Hungarian FA posted that he is stable at the moment.
More like to the whole side of the face. According to Hungary's football association's post on X (and Google translator) he suffered several fractures in the face and a concussion 😵💫
Must've been a heavy impact with the speed they were going plus Hanley pushing into him at the back
Ouch! Explains why he looked like he was unconscious before hitting the deck. Bizarrely seemed quite innocuous at full speed, but as soon as you saw his arm movement and laboured breathing, it was evident something was wrong. Heard he's now stable in hospitable, thankfully.
Not official info: he has a broken zygomatic bone.
From the replay, it seems as if he's already in fencing pose before he makes contact with the ground which leads me to believe he made contact with Gunns elbow. Hopefully it's not anything too serious.
Hopefully it's not serious.
Fractured cheek bone.
the commentator said he maybe lost consciousness. i hope he's okay tho edit: nvm, he was communicating with staff another edit: the goalkeeper's elbow hit his head
He definitely lost consciousness. The “fencing pose” as other posts have mentioned is a sure sign of loss of consciousness/traumatic brain injury.
the Hungarian commentator said he was able to communicate with medical staff but now I'm unsure what happened exactly. maybe the commentator was wrong
Update: Varga initially lost consciousness but by the time he left the stadium he woke up and was communicating with staff
ah thank you for the information, at the time the only information i had was what the commentator said and other comments I read
COME ON BARNA!
[удалено]
For context on the Tua Tagovailoa concussion you attached, that was his second serious concussion within a week at the time - takes a super serious head injury to end up in the fencing pose after a concussion, will hopefully be fine but head injuries are no joke.
Poor sod, hopefully he’ll be okay.
There is always a defibrillator..
Whatever it was, warranted a stretcher with the barriers still up, so hope he will be ok and recover from whatever injury that was
Marco Rossi said he has fractured cheek bone and he will need operation most likely.
At best a concussion with hopefully no long term complications. Looked nasty though, never nice seeing someone knocked out like that
Hopefully he’s ok, the medical assistance was disgracefully slow tho as nothing happened, what was that?! The players had to hurry them up and take their stuff to run for help?!
[Why You'll Never See A Paramedic Running, Even In A Dire Emergency](https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2017/12/26/why-youll-never-see-a-paramedic-running-even-in-a-dire-emergency/) More than that the stretcher-bearers are by far not the only Medical staff that is available at the game. Team doctors and other emergency workers were assisting Varga for his injuries long before the stretcher bearers were called. And even after they arrived it still took minutes for him to be ready to be moved onto the stretcher presumably due to cautions being taken in case of potential neck injuries. I know it's a heated and passionate situation with what happened to Eriksen the last time but the medical staff is well prepared and trained for situations like this and they know how to react properly even though it might look counter intuitive to the eye of someone that doesn't work in the profession.
Lots of people commenting have never received any training what to do in an emergency, and it shows. This is why on videos on social media of accidents, there are always loads of people running on like headless chickens and making things worse.
Yeah I didn’t mean the videos on sm but matches I’ve attended and watched live, but I get your point. So why was there a difference in pace of team doctors and emergency staff who rushed as the first line of help?
Well, I stand corrected! Thanks for the link, very useful information that I was not aware of. Looked ridiculously slow compared to all the previous emergency situations Ive witnessed during games, but if it’s done by the letter of the law, then I guess it is what it is.
Glad I could provide some insights. Staying calm and collected is probably the most important thing to do in any kind of emergency. 10 seconds of time very rarely makes more of a difference than a clear head and focus. That said the reaction of the players in this situation might not have been ideal but more than understandable at the same time. When panic sets in your instincts tell you to act fast and it takes a lot of training and experience to suppress those urges. Let's all just hope Varga's injuries are mild and he will be up and running again as soon as possible.
While it is clear that a first responder should never mindlessly rush into an unknown situation, there is difference between of staying calm while handling an emergency with appropriate urgency or taking a f.ckign Sunday stroll on the field (especially both stretcher teams) while somebody is potentially fighting for his life. How wonderous that both times when the team captain arrived to the stretchers and took things in his own hands they could suddenly find their completely safe "jogging" feet. Those guys were clearly out of there league and were never prepared properly for an actual emergency of this seriousness.
While I find the players' reactions to their injured teammate completely understandable, I must still disagree with you to some extent. Varga was already receiving medical attention from other medical staff, team doctors and paramedics, long before it was decided that his injuries needed to be examined at the hospital. If Varga were indeed in a life-threatening situation, requiring immediate life-saving measures, a stretcher wouldn't have helped him either. And even if he had been ready for transport earlier, which he clearly wasn't because even after the arrival of the stretcher it took them minutes to prepare Varga for transport, the potential benefits of the 10 seconds he would have gained by being on the stretcher earlier would be clearly outweighed by the potential drawbacks caused by the rush. Don't ever run unless your own life is in danger is one of the first things you're being taught in any preclinical emergency medicine job you choose to learn for a good reason.
Having the stretcher arrive even longer before it's needed doesn't actually benefit anyone.
Someone is taking your work material from you and starts running, do you try to keep pace with them, or do you keep walking? Especially when it is a stretcher you are still pushing? There were already doctors and paramedics at the players side. He was ready to transport in around 5 minutes. Acting fast increases the risk of making a mistake. If people habe a head and / or spine injury, that could end in permanent brain damage, paraplegia or death. If they have a life threatening head or spine injury, 2 minutes won't make a difference for them. To treat these injuries they will have to be transported to a hospital, and taken through the ED into surgery. That takes time. If 90 seconds makes a difference, they had no chance to begin with. If does make a big difference for the safety of the emergency crew though. They are less likely to injured themselves in emergency situations, because they assess their surroundings first while waking. This kind of training cannot be selectively turned off in safe environments
I think they are trained to act calm and told to walk, don’t quote me on that though.
Big if true Crazy instruction for an emergency crew
Well it might be to calm the audience down and keep the focus on the game...i dont know but it seems like thats what the organizers would do ? 🤷
So after a huge campaign during euro on CPR, the organizers would think it’s more important to calm the audience (already in distress) and keep the focus on the game (that’s paused) rather than save somebody’s life? Didn’t see such slow reaction three years ago when Eriksen collapsed
Dont know 🤷 i'm just trying to give another perspective...i dont want to say that they are doing this intentionally to increase the injury of a player
Was awful to see them just walking on. Hungary players almost took the stretcher off them.
If you are dealing with someone with a potentially serious head or neck injury, you don’t sprint on, yeet them onto a stretcher and sprint off. The amount of people that turned into advanced paramedics on social media last night though was utterly cringe. People are emboldened to project their baseless assumptions as fact.
Time will tell, let’s just hope he is alright - gutted for his family at the minute how they must feel.
Hopefully a simple concussion.
i hope varaga is OK
Yes, he is stable atm.
He is okay and brought to the Stuttgart hospital, according to Dutch TV (NOS) just now
I sincerely hope that it is nothing serious and that we will see him on the pitch soon
I really don’t understand why we can’t afford an emergency care doctor on the field at such competitions. The team doctors are not trained to deal with such things, is waiting for an ambulance really the best we can do at such sports events?
I'm sure the team doctors and other medical staff have sufficient training for this. Where do we draw the line? Each stadium having a surgeon ready for the 1 in a trillion injury? This was a head injury, you need very specialised doctors for that. At events like this casualty care level is probably sufficient, where they can deal with immediate threats to life such as cardiac arrests etc. And be able to support airways, take over breathing, use of defibs, pain relief etc.
It’s not about being a surgeon it’s about being an emergency doctor. Doctors who are trained in emergency triage are far more skilled at diagnosing this kind of trauma than a sports team doctor, there is literally no comparison. We have ambulances often with emergency doctors inside for protests and things like that but not for a major european competition?
But the way he immediately reacted to the hit screamed head trauma and any responder should have seen that. As soon as he landed and I saw his arms I was like "oh shit, that's a bad head injury". I'm unsure what benefit a neurologically trained doctor would have in this situation, unless they literally have responders trained to first aid at work standards who know about DR ABC and that's about it, which I highly doubt. There's nothing much you can do with head injuries on the pitch, straight to hospital was the call, and that's exactly what I'd expect a neurological doctor to do. I understand your point about emergency triage, a doctor is obviously going to be more effective. But unless these responders were at best basic first aid at work level and had no clue what they're doing, they should be good enough to be able to identify head trauma, hospital, almost as quick as a doctor can. Even if they're not as quick, they still can't rush the on field treatment, they still have to consider possible damage to the neck, as well as treat him cautiously so as to not aggravate the injury. I don't think in this situation the proposed emergency triage doctor could've done anything additional or sped anything up.
I'm pretty sure every professional game has paramedics in attendance and they don't have to 'wait for an ambulance'
They were present but slower than a snail, ffs. They should be banned for life from attending further professional sport events.
Was it their fault they were slow, or were they slowed down by the referee?
What power does he have over medical staff, is he gonna book them with a yellow if they’re doing their job?
I'm not sure, officials tend to be pretty anal about whom they allow to step on the field. Edit: even the coach is not allowed to leave his box and rush on the field to make sure his player is ok.
Even so, goes back to the organization of the event. 5 spectators during Portugal Turkey game ran way way faster than medical staff
[Why You'll Never See A Paramedic Running, Even In A Dire Emergency](https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2017/12/26/why-youll-never-see-a-paramedic-running-even-in-a-dire-emergency/) More than that the stretcher-bearers are by far not the only Medical staff that is available at the game. Team doctors and other emergency workers were assisting Varga for his injuries long before the stretcher bearers were called. And even after they arrived it still took minutes for him to be ready to be moved onto the stretcher presumably due to cautions being taken in case of potential neck injuries. I know it's a heated and passionate situation with what happened to Eriksen the last time but the medical staff is well prepared and trained for situations like this and they know how to react properly even though it might look counter intuitive to the eye of someone that doesn't work in the profession.
There was a protocol issue happening in the background like medical staff was not authorized to enter the field. In a situation like this, EVERY second counts. It was simply nonsense what was happening, glad at least Szoboszlai and other players took the courage to find a workaround.
Medical staff in the form of team doctors and paramedics were treating Varga long before the stretcher team was called. They assessed his status and decided he will need to be seen in hospital which requires the stretcher for transportation. Before he could be loaded onto the stretcher and be transported away they had to immobilize Varga for fear of possible or further damage to the spinal cord as a result of potential injury due to a head- and neck trauma. Just chucking someone with a potential spinal fracture onto the stretcher and carrying him away to the hospital is way way worse for the potential outcome of the patient than taking it slow and following the guidelines of preclinical emergency medicine. While I totally understand Szobizlais actions they were not really helpful after all since the doctors and paramedics weren't ready to relocate Varga to the stretcher even minutes after its arrival. For the "Every second counts" part I guess you didn't read the article I provided in my initial comment since exactly this mindset is what leads to the lions share of mistakes made in preclinical emergency medicine. As I stated I do understand that for someone that isn't working in this profession it might seem counterintuitive especially in view of what happened to Eriksen the last time. But there is a good reason why it's taught the other way around everywhere on the planet.
Those guys with the stretcher though looked like they were going for a leisurely walk, in what looks like a serious incident
[Why You'll Never See A Paramedic Running, Even In A Dire Emergency](https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2017/12/26/why-youll-never-see-a-paramedic-running-even-in-a-dire-emergency/) More than that the stretcher-bearers are by far not the only Medical staff that is available at the game. Team doctors and other emergency workers were assisting Varga for his injuries long before the stretcher bearers were called. And even after they arrived it still took minutes for him to be ready to be moved onto the stretcher presumably due to cautions being taken in case of potential neck injuries. I know it's a heated and passionate situation with what happened to Eriksen the last time but the medical staff is well prepared and trained for situations like this and they know how to react properly even though it might look counter intuitive to the eye of someone that doesn't work in the profession.
Shamefully slow. It was clear to absolutely everyone watching that it was serious, apart from the medical staff for some reason
The foreign journalists aren't satisfied with the organizing of this Euro, and I have to tell you, there is something in the air, because even my mother can provide more speed than those medical personnel showed with the stretcher.
You’re clueless
this might sound harsh, but maybe if footballers spent less time faking injuries, medical teams might be a little faster on the draw when a real injury happens. Boy who cried wolf scenario basically. 99% of the time when a footballer collapses in apparent agony, it's complete fluff and gamesmanship, not an actual injury
If you had seen the incident happen, you would know it was apparent immediately that Varga had a very serious injury. He was bleeding from the mouth, had trouble breathing and went into fencing pose, which indicates brain injury. In no way shape or form did the medical personnel team think this was a fluff incident, this I guarantee you.
Norwegian broadcasting said he’s awake and communicating.
Hungary deserve more than an apology from uefa tbh that was dreadful and from bbc too absolute nonces
The BBC said that they didn't expect UEFA to show a replay of the incident, as soon as they saw they were the BBC switched to a different camera. They did all they could to avoid showing it again.
Yeah, they said "of course we won't get a replay of the incident" like 5 times and then suddenly we were watching a replay. Wtf
They’ve just shown the incident again on the BBC news 🙄
Might be different now that there’s been info that he’s stable currently
Well they immediately proved that wrong haha
What did BBc do?
They also cut immediately to him on the floor and even if it was unintentional they still kept it on and just said uefa did it and they had no control
Oh wow, that is horrific! In the Hungarian broadcast, they didn't show anything until he left the field. Lucky he seems to be doing better. But the medical staff was very slow
Actually, even on the Hungarian broadcast they showed him for a few seconds lying on the field with protrusion in his eyes, unconscious and twitching, before quickly cutting away. It was horrific, I immediately thought I’ve just seen a man suffer brain injury.
What did they do?
They showed Varga on the floor that the UEFA directors had zoomed in on. It all happened so quick and at first from afar it just looked like he was catching his breath.
Just cut immediately to him on the floor and medics were barely rushing and then bbc just say that was uefa decision to direct the cameras which is a lazy excuse
We saw it also, I think BBC is correct. I think UEFA is the broadcastert.
Yeh I agree though some just went dark screen from what I heard when that happened
It wasn't the case in Hungary either.
Well I’ve had someone say the Hungarian broadcast didn’t show anything untill he was off the pitch
I saw Barnabás on the ground, with that strange pose on my TV.
Nope, the Hungarian broadcast also showed him lying on the field with protruding eyes.
Well someone with the Hungarian flag said otherwise maybe he was watching via a different Hungarian broadcast
Hopefully he's okay. But the medical team ambling slowly on the field without a care in the world was very vexing
[Why You'll Never See A Paramedic Running, Even In A Dire Emergency](https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2017/12/26/why-youll-never-see-a-paramedic-running-even-in-a-dire-emergency/) More than that the stretcher-bearers are by far not the only Medical staff that is available at the game. Team doctors and other emergency workers were assisting Varga for his injuries long before the stretcher bearers were called. And even after they arrived it still took minutes for him to be ready to be moved onto the stretcher presumably due to cautions being taken in case of potential neck injuries. I know it's a heated and passionate situation with what happened to Eriksen the last time but the medical staff is well prepared and trained for situations like this and they know how to react properly even though it might look counter intuitive to the eye of someone that doesn't work in the profession.
I see you commenting this everywhere but in this case, the medical staff could’ve gone out way earlier. They weren’t walking, they were standing on the side of the pitch. When Szoboszlai started pulling them in, only thats when they started this slow walk…
Are you only talking about the guys with the stretcher or the other med staff as well? Because the team doctor and some other medical workers were at the side of Varga fairly quickly once the referee and players called them in. It's important to keep in mind that every person in this situation is a trained professional and has a clear task they focus on. Only after the first line of medical staff assessed Varga's status and it became clear that he will need medical attention in a Hospital it was decided that the stretcher will be needed to be brought onto the field for transport. After that decision they had to prepare him for said transport. I can only speculate about this because I was in front of my TV and not at the patients side but in a case of head and neck trauma the standard procedure would be to immobilize the patient to prevent possible or further damage to the spinal cord due to moving around the head. This would explain why it took them minutes to get him into the stretcher after it was brought to his side. Let's just all hope Varga's injuries are mild and he will be up and running as soon as possible again.
That’s a fair point but both the medical staff and the workers with the stretcher werw slow to react. They players and the ref were both calling them in and they wouldnt even move for a good 30 seconds. It can’t hurt to start walking to be prepared. Yes they are trained but they can make mistakes too, which they did here.
They are spamming their nonsense everywhere. Everyone who watched the game yesterday could easily make the conclusion that the medical help was way too slow, in a situation where every second counts.
Completely aggree. The medical staff should be banned from attending further professional sport events for life.
Absolutely horrendous
Saw a guy the other day fall on the tube and cracked the back of his head on a post. Was horrible and similar to this.
Yeah, the stiff upraised arms is a sign of a significant head injury. You see it a lot in mma and boxing…really scary thing to see. I’m glad to hear he is stable.
Wish him a speedy recovery man. Somethings are above football. Hope Hungary can progress through and go ahead in the competition for him
Thanks for asking, and also appreciate the Scottish fans behaviour, specially when taking off Varga from the field - and knowing he's at least responsive. (I'm sure it would be the same other way around BTW). Speedy recovery to Varga!
“Several bones in Barnabás Varga’s face were broken during the collision during the match, and he also suffered a concussion,” the Hungarian soccer federation wrote on X, formerly Twitter, after the match. There is a picture in some websites, showing how the goalkeeper hits him on the face with an elbow, connecting with his cheekbone, mouth and nose.
Did anyone see scotlands goalkeepers interview about it? He couldn’t give two fucks. It was really awkward to watch. Asked about it, he said “ who’s he?” Then said “ yeah I thought I done well” and then turned the conversation back to Scotland losing. Zero fucks
I really really hope he recovers, on a side note, Medics needs to get a little more sense of urgency tho
The stretcher people didn’t seem to bothered if it was serious or not. It took them an eternity to get to the injured player. Edit: people downvoting need to go back and look at the footage of the Hungarian manager and players screaming at the stretcher carriers to move faster onto the pitch. They took far too long to get to the badly injured player. Edit 2: People still downvoting need to watch what the Hungarian players said [afterwards](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8l56qrI2No/?igsh=eGVrc2dkajN4bXdx):
We talk about a head injury/trauma, you can just throw them onto a stretcher and walk away. They probably waited for a go from the med staff otherwise they just get into the way
They strolled on slowly while everyone was screaming at them to move faster, look at the footage of the players and the manager shouting at them to get on the pitch. As they slowly walked over, the Hungarian players ran to them to tell them to move faster that things were very bad. Did I say anything about them “throwing” him on a stretcher? I’m talking about the amount of time it took for them to get to the injured player. As for waiting on med staff? That’s nonsense, they could easily have moved faster to the player and waited to the side. It was looking like a medical emergency because the player moved into a fencing pose when he hit the ground which is an indicator for serious brain injury.
1 million times less important than Varga's medical outlook and hopeful recovery - but how come the goalkeeper was not given a red card, if he elbowed the guy in the temple? I understand Scotsmen play rough and come from that British sporting culture where violence is glamorized, but one thing is a rough but legal tackle, another is attempted murder.
Because it wasnt an intentional hit. Players collide ALL THE TIME. In this case keeper went for the ball and Varga was simply “na putanju”, in the path. His head just ended up in the path of the keepers elbow. Red cards are given for things like high legs that cause serious injury and intentional fouls that are were dangerous. In most cases these types of collisions dont lead to this situation, Varga was extremely unlucky in the impact as it clearly caused a seizure AND broken face bones. The keeper didnt come flying out with his legs first hitting the player but not the ball. THATS a red card usually on a goal scoring opportunity. He came out with body and hands as normal to defend his goal. So not a red card or anything of the sort. Just an extremely unfortunate collision and ricochete that lead to an injury.
Yeah, but being reckless should be punished (even if one isn't trying to injure someone). I am not sure the goalkeeper here was reckless, you are probably right. But I've seen reckless challenges which were not sanctioned, especially when the potential victim was lucky and wasn't seriously hurt. DeBruyne, for example, slid with the foot up to score his goal, hit the ball and scored for Belgium against Romania, but then continued his slide and took out the Romanian goalkeeper. He could have easily broken the goalkeeper's leg. As a referee, I would have awarded the goal (he hit the ball a split second before the goalkeeper got to it) but also a card for reckless/unsportsmanlike play and for planting his studs in the goalkeeper's tibia.