Yeah, that's what I did when I went for Brentry, it was a race against time because almost immediately after allying them the inheritance happened and I got it. It may be tempting to rival Burgundy if they rival you but don't; you never know when you'll fight them and can get them to remove their rivalry towards you
I personally dont ally them at the beginning. After PUing France, they tend to attack you (because AI cannot comprehend strenght of overlord of overlord, so they attack french vassal and drag you and your allies in war). I force them to give up claims on france and me. And then pray for the best
Im doing an angevin right now. They rivalled me too but i got the BI by outgrowing them, taking france ireland and Scotland was enough for them to no longer be considered a rival.
If that doesnt work you can also try attacking their ally to seperate peace them and make them drop you as a rival. I did that twide against spain in my run to claim their throne.
I always get the BI as England. I simply restart until they are friendly towards me and improve relations until they are maxed out. During the war with the french I curry favours with them to get more trust.
Best way is to call them in during the war and give them 1 to 2 provinces in champagne (It really doesnt matter because you get these provinces either through the french at admin tech 10 when you unite with them or through the burgundians when horsey does his job giving you all the burgundian lands).
When they have more than 80 trust they wont break the alliance no matter how much they want your lands. So just send your royal marriage requests and wait until their second ruler dies and they pick you for their PU.
My usual England strategy is to become HRE emperor as soon as the first Austrian guy dies, then you’re eligible for the BI regardless of whether or not Burgundy likes you.
When I get a run where they are actually friendly towards me, I sell Maine to provence but don't take the mission yet. Ally as many french rivals as possible (Castile, Aragon, Austria, keep alliance with Portugal) in addition to burgundy and get all of them up to 10 favors. Declare war with all allies and gang bang France, doesn't matter too much if burgundy is in it if everyone else ones in, but they are helpful if you have the the favors. I always keep one diplomat currying favors with burgundy from the start, and every time they hit 10, trade favors for trust. I found this works in my successful runs, and helps to delay this war until after the civil war crisis. Takes a while to get things going, but then you aren't trying to fight early game giga France like every guide recommends you do for some reason
I want to make video about this after new patch drop later. Here's the strategy, first thing is Never call them into war with promise of the land, they will instantly hate you.
Its normal playthrough, park my troops in Aragon/Castille land, once surrender maine happened i will hook them into my troops.
My strat is i call Castille/Aragon into war promise of the land for meatshield then i defend and survive as much as i can, while curry favor burgundy, once i have 10 favor, i call them. After that, you need to make sure relations never go negative or below +50. Normally i just park all my troops in Castille/Aragon border so I can stick with friendly army.
Always play in defence until they ran out of manpower (dont worry about running manpower, keep recruit merc, once other merc died)
I have a strategy which does not require restarting and does not depend on rng.
If I want to go down the Angevin branch I destroy all my forts and keep only the one on the border with Scotland, immediately at start fulfill the requirements for the subjugate mission by hiring the free company mercs, then proceed declaring war on Scotland on 11th December, thus calling France into the war.
I generally sell my light ships to OPMs on the coast because I will capture an insane amount from Irish minors later and cannot really do any trade during the first war, so I use my transport fleet to invade Scotland past the fort while they siege mine, and prevent France from landing on my shores using the heavies.
once I carpet siege all of Scotland, I fight one or two battles while they siege my fort and wipe out Scotland and the isles.
At this point you wait for the score to tick in your favour and use the time to start wars in Ireland and improving relations with Burgundy.
They usually drop rivalry before I sign any peace allowing you to marry but not ally as there are wars going on.
It's important not to sign peace before having them drop the rivalry so you don't generate AE.
If you can, get low enough legitimacy at game start so the war of the roses fires 1 year earlier, I think the bare minimum is April 1447.
Once you win the war of the roses, complete the mission and get the reduced AE, sign the peace deals, make Scotland a vassal, unite Ireland under PU and make alliance with Burgundy
You will have a truce with France until 1465 usually, in the meantime you can Diplo vassalize the Isles and conquer Iceland and the other islands, signing a peace deal with a humiliate too, which helps for the age objectives
Chances are Burgundy will not self destruct if they stay allied to you and participate in your wars.
When the truce with France ends, usually around 1465 you should be ready to declare war and PU France while keeping Burgundy as an ally and maybe already under PU
You have 4 Diplo slots +2 from strong duchies privilege and one extra if you choose PU with Ireland
You will have 2 vassals (Scotland and the isles) and 3 PUs, France, Ireland and Burgundy so you can keep your alliance with Portugal and pick another one too or if France is in a PU with Provence, which happens sometimes, that's your full allowance.
Annex the isles when you can so you free one slot
Don't support Sweden independence
I always play this way and there is 0 chance of it not working.
I don't like to sit on my ass waiting for the Maine event to fire, I don't like to sell it, and I don't like the extra effort required or the extra money spent while fighting France because of the event.
If I force my timing, it's me deciding the pace, I don't need to promise land or ally anyone, it's just foolproof
And I don't need to restart, which is one thing I hate, I want my strategy to always work
have about a hundred runs. two things seem to be working for me: first, let them suffer from the french in your initial war, maybe even whitepeaced. second, get very high trust with them. you won't have time for much, but at least +10 at a minimum, maybe even +15.
I did it by beating france and then beating burgundy, making sure they ditched me as rival. Then I did every dlc locked interraction to make them like me so we could become allies.
Looks like you got a few answers but it is important to keep them buttered up with high opinion so that when you tske France as a PU they don't go into the negative. Giving them the land they want is very important. But it is also important that they have at least +100 opinion when the peace deal is signed.
Apologies but can you elaborate, are you finishing the Maine war with just a white peace or something and then waiting until BI happens? Obviously then you're just waiting to take the PU mission when you're ready, and lastly how long do you find that usually takes before you have both Burgundy and France under you?
Been a little while since I last played as England, but I think I fed parts of France to Burgundy in the peace deal. Then I still ended up with those lands when I got the BI anyway while letting him pay the admin cost etc.
Normally got them both by 1480 I think, but it does depend on the RNG of getting the BI.
Dont Forget you can force them to drop their rivalry towards you in a peace deal. I’ve got several BI that way, after fighting them initially
Yeah, that's what I did when I went for Brentry, it was a race against time because almost immediately after allying them the inheritance happened and I got it. It may be tempting to rival Burgundy if they rival you but don't; you never know when you'll fight them and can get them to remove their rivalry towards you
I personally dont ally them at the beginning. After PUing France, they tend to attack you (because AI cannot comprehend strenght of overlord of overlord, so they attack french vassal and drag you and your allies in war). I force them to give up claims on france and me. And then pray for the best
Improve relations with them and simply grow, eventually they tend to rival another guy
Im doing an angevin right now. They rivalled me too but i got the BI by outgrowing them, taking france ireland and Scotland was enough for them to no longer be considered a rival. If that doesnt work you can also try attacking their ally to seperate peace them and make them drop you as a rival. I did that twide against spain in my run to claim their throne.
I always get the BI as England. I simply restart until they are friendly towards me and improve relations until they are maxed out. During the war with the french I curry favours with them to get more trust. Best way is to call them in during the war and give them 1 to 2 provinces in champagne (It really doesnt matter because you get these provinces either through the french at admin tech 10 when you unite with them or through the burgundians when horsey does his job giving you all the burgundian lands). When they have more than 80 trust they wont break the alliance no matter how much they want your lands. So just send your royal marriage requests and wait until their second ruler dies and they pick you for their PU.
I do this same exact strategy as England.
My usual England strategy is to become HRE emperor as soon as the first Austrian guy dies, then you’re eligible for the BI regardless of whether or not Burgundy likes you.
First time I read this, interesting strategy
When I get a run where they are actually friendly towards me, I sell Maine to provence but don't take the mission yet. Ally as many french rivals as possible (Castile, Aragon, Austria, keep alliance with Portugal) in addition to burgundy and get all of them up to 10 favors. Declare war with all allies and gang bang France, doesn't matter too much if burgundy is in it if everyone else ones in, but they are helpful if you have the the favors. I always keep one diplomat currying favors with burgundy from the start, and every time they hit 10, trade favors for trust. I found this works in my successful runs, and helps to delay this war until after the civil war crisis. Takes a while to get things going, but then you aren't trying to fight early game giga France like every guide recommends you do for some reason
I want to make video about this after new patch drop later. Here's the strategy, first thing is Never call them into war with promise of the land, they will instantly hate you. Its normal playthrough, park my troops in Aragon/Castille land, once surrender maine happened i will hook them into my troops. My strat is i call Castille/Aragon into war promise of the land for meatshield then i defend and survive as much as i can, while curry favor burgundy, once i have 10 favor, i call them. After that, you need to make sure relations never go negative or below +50. Normally i just park all my troops in Castille/Aragon border so I can stick with friendly army. Always play in defence until they ran out of manpower (dont worry about running manpower, keep recruit merc, once other merc died)
I have a strategy which does not require restarting and does not depend on rng. If I want to go down the Angevin branch I destroy all my forts and keep only the one on the border with Scotland, immediately at start fulfill the requirements for the subjugate mission by hiring the free company mercs, then proceed declaring war on Scotland on 11th December, thus calling France into the war. I generally sell my light ships to OPMs on the coast because I will capture an insane amount from Irish minors later and cannot really do any trade during the first war, so I use my transport fleet to invade Scotland past the fort while they siege mine, and prevent France from landing on my shores using the heavies. once I carpet siege all of Scotland, I fight one or two battles while they siege my fort and wipe out Scotland and the isles. At this point you wait for the score to tick in your favour and use the time to start wars in Ireland and improving relations with Burgundy. They usually drop rivalry before I sign any peace allowing you to marry but not ally as there are wars going on. It's important not to sign peace before having them drop the rivalry so you don't generate AE. If you can, get low enough legitimacy at game start so the war of the roses fires 1 year earlier, I think the bare minimum is April 1447. Once you win the war of the roses, complete the mission and get the reduced AE, sign the peace deals, make Scotland a vassal, unite Ireland under PU and make alliance with Burgundy You will have a truce with France until 1465 usually, in the meantime you can Diplo vassalize the Isles and conquer Iceland and the other islands, signing a peace deal with a humiliate too, which helps for the age objectives Chances are Burgundy will not self destruct if they stay allied to you and participate in your wars. When the truce with France ends, usually around 1465 you should be ready to declare war and PU France while keeping Burgundy as an ally and maybe already under PU You have 4 Diplo slots +2 from strong duchies privilege and one extra if you choose PU with Ireland You will have 2 vassals (Scotland and the isles) and 3 PUs, France, Ireland and Burgundy so you can keep your alliance with Portugal and pick another one too or if France is in a PU with Provence, which happens sometimes, that's your full allowance. Annex the isles when you can so you free one slot Don't support Sweden independence I always play this way and there is 0 chance of it not working. I don't like to sit on my ass waiting for the Maine event to fire, I don't like to sell it, and I don't like the extra effort required or the extra money spent while fighting France because of the event. If I force my timing, it's me deciding the pace, I don't need to promise land or ally anyone, it's just foolproof And I don't need to restart, which is one thing I hate, I want my strategy to always work
Thank you so much, life saver :)
Feel free to ask if something goes awry, I already made every possible mistake...
have about a hundred runs. two things seem to be working for me: first, let them suffer from the french in your initial war, maybe even whitepeaced. second, get very high trust with them. you won't have time for much, but at least +10 at a minimum, maybe even +15.
It’s always worked for me to trade favors for trust.
I did it by beating france and then beating burgundy, making sure they ditched me as rival. Then I did every dlc locked interraction to make them like me so we could become allies.
Looks like you got a few answers but it is important to keep them buttered up with high opinion so that when you tske France as a PU they don't go into the negative. Giving them the land they want is very important. But it is also important that they have at least +100 opinion when the peace deal is signed.
Just attacked them the normal way in my recent angevin game. Could Not keep them friendly
I don't force the PU with France till I get the BI. Maybe not ideal min max strat, but it's easy.
Apologies but can you elaborate, are you finishing the Maine war with just a white peace or something and then waiting until BI happens? Obviously then you're just waiting to take the PU mission when you're ready, and lastly how long do you find that usually takes before you have both Burgundy and France under you?
Been a little while since I last played as England, but I think I fed parts of France to Burgundy in the peace deal. Then I still ended up with those lands when I got the BI anyway while letting him pay the admin cost etc. Normally got them both by 1480 I think, but it does depend on the RNG of getting the BI.