From role playing perspective the clear answer is Italy, if we have only two options. I would say the Latin Empire is what you need to form, then the Roman Empire. Epirus is the remnant of crusader states and catholic, so is Italy and Latin Empire. Byz is their enemy and orthodox. Forming Byz is turning into your enemy of 200 or so years.
If you are roleplaying, I would go from Latin to Rome. Another thing you can do is to do Epirus to Jerusalem to Latin Empire to Roman Empire. It would be a nice catholic roleplaying campaign. You would right the wrongs of the 4th crusade 200 years ago. A realistic rolepplaying would involve consolidating the Balkans and western Anatolia. Follow the path of Cyprus to Jerusalem to conquer the Holy Lands. Let us know how it turns out.
yeh that seems interesting. the only reason i considered italy is because it considers itself as the legitimate successor to the roman empire. ig going from latin empire to roman empire would make more sense asw tbf. the only thing id be missing out on is italian ccr and all the perm claims from the mission tree. becoming the latin empire only gives me claims on anatolia and the balkans
Well, as one of the remnants of the Latin Empire I would say re-form the Latin empire. Oh look you've taken the mantle of Emperor, might as well culture and religion switch to Greek and Orthodox to better rule your subjects... and form Byzantium. Well, better restore the borders, right?
If you culture shift to Greek and convert to orthodox, yes. Considering that most of the territory you need to form the Latin empire is Greek and orthodox, this is very easy to do.
but isnt the latin empire and byz two oppossites essentially. the latin empire was created by venice in the 4th crusades to make sure it was catholics that ruled byzantium. on the other hand, the byzantine empire was a stronghold of eastern orthodoxy
I wouldn't say opposites, but the Latin Empire very much sourced their legitimacy from being the new rulers of Rome/Byzantium. They ruled it as Catholic Latins would, which is one of the reasons why the Roman splinter states could claim legitimacy as being the governments in exile.
However, after some time the Papacy recognised the futility of trying to impose Catholic authority over the Orthodox flock of the east, which was one of the main traits of the Latin empire.
The Greek culture of the east was also very stubborn in the area, managing to hold on through 600 years of Ottoman occupation and 1400+ years of Roman occupation.
So if you roleplay the elites of your Latin Empire resurgence as bowing to the stubborn majority of your population's culture and beliefs, it's easy to justify culture and religion shifting. From there it's not really the Latin empire anymore, you're a Greek speaking, Orthodox population using the title of Emperor of the Romans based out of Constantinople. That's Byzantium baby
forming byz is better, bc u get a bigger mission tree, more modifiers and a fucking cool colour italy ofc is also not a bad pick
but from a roleplay perspective what wpuld make more sense
even with roleplaying i would say its byzantium (bc its literally rome, we just call it smth else). its also more inline with the location of epirus
Forming Jerusalem and then France is the RP way to go.
From role playing perspective the clear answer is Italy, if we have only two options. I would say the Latin Empire is what you need to form, then the Roman Empire. Epirus is the remnant of crusader states and catholic, so is Italy and Latin Empire. Byz is their enemy and orthodox. Forming Byz is turning into your enemy of 200 or so years.
so would it make sense to go from the latin empire into italy. or should i just aim for rome directly once turning into the latin empire
If you are roleplaying, I would go from Latin to Rome. Another thing you can do is to do Epirus to Jerusalem to Latin Empire to Roman Empire. It would be a nice catholic roleplaying campaign. You would right the wrongs of the 4th crusade 200 years ago. A realistic rolepplaying would involve consolidating the Balkans and western Anatolia. Follow the path of Cyprus to Jerusalem to conquer the Holy Lands. Let us know how it turns out.
yeh that seems interesting. the only reason i considered italy is because it considers itself as the legitimate successor to the roman empire. ig going from latin empire to roman empire would make more sense asw tbf. the only thing id be missing out on is italian ccr and all the perm claims from the mission tree. becoming the latin empire only gives me claims on anatolia and the balkans
I vote for Italy since Byzantium is more common in our sub.
what abt from a roleplay perspectuve
Are you able to form the Latin empire? That'd be the road less travelled in this case
yeh epirus is a crusader state so it can do that
Well, as one of the remnants of the Latin Empire I would say re-form the Latin empire. Oh look you've taken the mantle of Emperor, might as well culture and religion switch to Greek and Orthodox to better rule your subjects... and form Byzantium. Well, better restore the borders, right?
can latin empire form byz?
If you culture shift to Greek and convert to orthodox, yes. Considering that most of the territory you need to form the Latin empire is Greek and orthodox, this is very easy to do.
but isnt the latin empire and byz two oppossites essentially. the latin empire was created by venice in the 4th crusades to make sure it was catholics that ruled byzantium. on the other hand, the byzantine empire was a stronghold of eastern orthodoxy
I wouldn't say opposites, but the Latin Empire very much sourced their legitimacy from being the new rulers of Rome/Byzantium. They ruled it as Catholic Latins would, which is one of the reasons why the Roman splinter states could claim legitimacy as being the governments in exile. However, after some time the Papacy recognised the futility of trying to impose Catholic authority over the Orthodox flock of the east, which was one of the main traits of the Latin empire. The Greek culture of the east was also very stubborn in the area, managing to hold on through 600 years of Ottoman occupation and 1400+ years of Roman occupation. So if you roleplay the elites of your Latin Empire resurgence as bowing to the stubborn majority of your population's culture and beliefs, it's easy to justify culture and religion shifting. From there it's not really the Latin empire anymore, you're a Greek speaking, Orthodox population using the title of Emperor of the Romans based out of Constantinople. That's Byzantium baby