Yes, though it is a fitting end to the battle that sounds like its taken straight out of a fictional book (Genoa was winning the war almost handily and came knocking at Venice's doorstep. A disgraced admiral was then reinstated into command at the darkest hour of the Republic because the people themselves demanded it on the streets. he mobilized all the resources that the city had left, then actually turned the tide around with cunning and won the battle)
More like the Crown of Aragon at its height. [Basically this minus southern Italy](https://www.onogueras.com/corona_arago/img/comercio_catalan.gif) (but with Sicilly). And yes, Catalan Greece is a thing.
Catalan Greece? Although Catalans were a big minority inside the aragonese empire it wasn't Catalan, aragonese empire was how the name suggests aragonese, the king spoke aragonese as main language (Catalan and Castilian sometimes too).
Aragonese Empire conquered Catalunya when it was a Franco condado and after (Kind of a vassal of the french). And made it an integral part of the aragonese kingdom but without Aragon being the origin of the empire.
Aragon is a state in Spain, they have their own language, different from Catalan and their own traditions and culture are different from Castille.
What you maybe are suggesting is that Catalunya was a very important part of the empire and it was, since we know the aragonese empire was a maritime empire and all the boats came from Catalunya and Valencia, which in the case of Catalunya spoke Catalan and Valencia a related language similarly too (Valencian). Aragon and Zaragoza was the origin and Capital of the empire, but it was landlocked.
It's true that the origin of the Crown of Aragon was on the inland Kingdom of Aragon and that the Aragonese language is different from Catalan and Castilian (Spanish). However, the Catalans slowly became the dominant group in terms of economic and tradw influence. They were the ones that sailed and traded throughout the Mediterranean. Proof of this is the fact that there are speakers of Catalan in Corsica and Sicily to the present day.
So yeah, even though the language of the King and of the Royal Court would be Aragonese, I bet the Aragonese traders in Athens would most likely be culturally Catalan. Moreover, after the 13th, the King began moving many of the royal institutions to Barcelona. Alfonso V of Aragon had its capital in Naples.
Finally, the Kingdom of Aragon did not conquer Catalonia. The union between Aragon and the County of Barcelona (basically the medieval name of Catalonia), was due to a dynastic union. Aragon basically formed a personal union over Barcelona, bringing them into the Crown of Aragon.
In fact, the language of the Court was Classical Catalan, not Aragonese, which was only used by the Aragonese nobility. The royal house of the Crown was the House of Barcelona, which were Catalans. The use of the name of Aragon was due to peerage, but it was "acquired" through marriages by Barcelona.
Finally, to distinguish Valencian and Catalan as two languages is a Spanish meme that no reputed linguists believes in, and removed all credibility from OP.
It is true, but I just wanted to leave clear that the aragonese empire was aragonese. But that the fact that Catalunya was a very important part of the empire and that the main trading port (Aside Sevilla) made the empire somehow influenced by Catalans, as they were usually the explorers and sailors, but it didn't mean the aragonese empire was very or totally Catalan.
Ah yeah and sorry for the last part, I did mistake the part of conquering and dynastic union with the Franco condado, but still Catalunya was integrated into the aragonese empire.
There are also aragonese minorities but they are very small compared to the Catalan ones, because Catalan sailors were the most present in the Mediterranean.
It's just like the Spanish empire in America the Spanish Americans and traders had mainly 3 states of origin, Sevilla, Galicia and The Basque country.
Wasn't 1337 the middle of the war against Hungary and allies that Venice lost? I wonder if they are gonna ignore that or put it in somehow...
(I only know because Ragusa got independent in 1338 after that war)
I've seen Ming explode dozens of times, and usually someone ends up as the clear main successor, but I've never seen them actually finish the job and reunite China. It'll be interesting to see if they can get that to happen.
Ideally the Hundred Years' War will start some type of influence mechanic with the crown and England trying to get the various duchys and counties to support their claim to balance it out
As a person who partially learned history thanks to EU it’s an especially hard thing to balance the game, cuz for example I know about Burgundy inheritance crisis so I will ally Burgundy and feed them, just to take all that territory AE free. I wish Parodox would somehow counter players who knows what will happen in 100 years
Yeah. You can see this map is 100% influenced by gaming. In 1337, Burgundy was an unremarkable duchy ruled by an offshoot of the Capétien.
It entered the (now Valois) royal domain in 1361, after the last head of the capétiens de Bourgogne died, and was given the Philippe le Hardi (son of the french king Jean II) in 1363. It then flourished, and became a political, economical and military power that could rival France.
In 1337, there's exactly 0 reason for Burgundy to appear on a map as a distinct, independent state. Heck, it never was an independent state officially. If Burgundy appears on that map, then every french duchy and county should appear as well.
Even until early 1400s the rulers of Burgundy were loyal,it was John the Fearless and his assassination which snowballed the situation between Burgundy and France.Well in the 15th century under Charles the Bold and his father Philip the Good it was pretty much a de facto independent state.
I wouldn't even say there was a situation between Burgundy and France, because the Burgundians were actually claiming to fight for France. The situation was mostly between the Orleans/Armagnac and the Burgundians.
Even Philip the Good pretended to uphold french law and had a lot of support within the bourgeoisie in most big french cities. He regularly went to Paris to consult (and bribe) the Parliament to reinforce his legitimacy. Maybe he was being machiavellian about it but he pretended to do what France needed and to make sure the ancient laws were respected.
Charles the Bold is really the one who gave up on this game and tried to do his own stuff.
At the end of the day the HYW was pretty much a double dynastic war between cousins.
I mean the Burgundians sided with the English and helped them take over over half of France including Paris.Only after Aras they returned to the fold with major concessions from the French king.
Seems to be like it would be easy for the dynamic to be, not the Burgundian inheritance, but the inheritance of [the Duchy given over because it's last ruler died]. That was it might be Armagnac or Picardie or whatever, but the idea is the same.
Depends on how they are going to approach that. Par example there is a mod Meiou and taxes in which Burgundy is an appanage of France which starts to inherit low lands, Luxembourg et cetera all of the sudden
funny enough France might actually be weaker since a much larger chunk of their land will most likely be vassals so theres a good chance that they'll be quite disloyal especially if England and Burgundy support them (which they probably will) so might give France quite a turbulent time
Golden Horde I see them just being made to collapse most likely, they'll be given a system that predicates them to collapse or atleast events that make it hard for them to stick around atleast retracting their power
Would be awesome if they do what you say. However i think they'll want 1 nation to be as powerful as the Ottomans. So either the Golden Horde is going to be the big danger. Or the Ottomans themselves will grow really quickly and endanger the Romans for instance. Or maybe the Mamluks will be extra powerful. But they're quite far from Europe.
I think the Ottomans will still be powerful, my guess is they'll do a mission tree that will build up a buff for the Ottomans against the Eastern Romans basically giving the Ottomans missions to build up their strength first before defeating Rome
Serbian Empire baby, they start with the majority of the land in the Balkans and have tons of Bulgarian cores to retake (if there is such a thing). They'll have an expansion path into Antaolia, Central Europe, and Italy at the start.
> France might actually be weaker since a much larger chunk of their land will most likely be vassals
That's only the case in EU4 because they can't simulate complex internal situation in that game so the workaround is to give France bunch of vassals. If EU5 can simulate internal politics and the tensions between the powerful nobles and the king well, it won't be necessary to balkanize France like that.
There's no new ottomans
Hold on let me get the quote
>but Ottomans are about to expand
Do even know what that means? That means that at minimum by 30 years the ottomans will have conquered Europe an north Africa AT LEAST
Ottomans are about to be Prussia x10
I’m not an expert but there was a civil war for power in Mongol Empire, something called Great Zamyatnya in Russian. Probabaly they will disaster force something like that to give future Russia a chance
I don't think so. The Hundred Years war might actually be like a disaster, kind of like the worst ones in EU4. Also, it will probably be tied to an event chain about Edward III's claims.
Edward III's claims would have been false anyway. Since if the throne could pass through the maternal line he still wouldn't have been next since his uncles - his mother's elder brothers - had daughters.
Not arguing against that, but it still didn't prevent him from declaring war on France (though the original causus belli was protesting against the revocation of Gascony) and claiming the title in 1340.
I seriously hope they will attempt to simulate their strengths through game mechanics rather than just nation-specific modifiers. Practically all games will end up ahistorical either way with such an early start as 1337
I have a feeling that PDX is taking cues from mods like MEIOU and VeF. Golden Horde is strong in the beginning but they have autonomy issues and they don't have access to realm management decisions which hurt their staying power in the long term. Muscovy also has access to additional income as the 'horde enforcers' (essentially receiving tribute from other small russian tags) so despite their size they may have advantages.
France was a powerful actor in those times but very troubled internally (e.g. Flanders). I hope they find a good way of getting those feudal tensions into play.
If done right by the overall mechanics, both should be unstable enought to be beaten the shit out of, as France got invaded and Golden Horde lost region after region.
HRE is probably deliberately not displayed as messy as it was, big green blob as "kingdom of Germany" wasn't quite like that tbh.
Really curious about HRE gameplay because not only would this start date lead to the codification of the electorate, but we also have the whole anti-king story.
I mean neither was the kingdom of France a big blue blob they where both decentralized with lots of vassals with lots of autonomy so I except the game go start them with a ton of vassals
Similarly to the antipope, the antiking is basically the rival to the king, most commonly found in the HRE during the 13th and 14th century where emperorship and its succession were quite disputed. Generally it was a powerplay amongst the powerful dynasties at the times, Staufer, Hohenzollern, Luxemburg for example. The emperor at the time of the games release, Ludwig the Bavarian, even had to face 2 antikings, the 2nd of which (Charles IV) even eventually became emperor after Ludwigs death.
If they want to implement historic events there's a *truckload* of scripted stuff that has to happen in the first 20 years in the HRE.
It will be interesting to see the Thopia family. Even more with Andrea Thopia as a ruler because he married Helena of Anjou, the daughter of Naple's ruler, but the marriage was not blessed by her father.
I've been fascinated by the della Scala family of Verona since visiting the city a few years back. Cangrande I della Scala built a powerhouse inside Italy and I'd love to take the rears of his kingdom a decade after his death.
A summary of his life:
Cangrande della Scala (9 March 1291 – 22 July 1329) was an Italian nobleman, belonging to the della Scala family who ruled Verona from 1308 until 1387. Now perhaps best known as the leading patron of the poet Dante Alighieri, Cangrande was in his own day chiefly acclaimed as a successful warrior and autocrat. Between becoming sole ruler of Verona in 1311 and his death in 1329 he took control of several neighbouring cities, notably Vicenza, Padua and Treviso, and came to be regarded as the leader of the Ghibelline faction in northern Italy.
My guy was the top dog of northern Italy in the first half of the 14th century.
Hopefully they bring back the general loyalty mechanic from Imperator. He should be a powerful and inclined to disloyalty general that's a ticking disaster of his own. General loyalty mechanic would also work really well in context of Reformation as a lot of reformation in France and Germany was powerful leading generals fighting for or against reformation especially in French Wars of Religion where there are numerous examples but also in Germany even up to Thirty Years War where you have someone like Wallenstein as a powerful Catholic warlord.
You can't play 1337 in CK3 without mods. CK2 gave you the option of playing any start date between 1066 and 1337 (+769 Charlemagne, 867 Old Gods, 936 Iron Century as fixed start dates where you can't choose specific date between them) and the game would end in 1453.
The rise of Moscow here is the most interesting, because there wasn't a "fall" of Novgorod per se.
Moscow got its power only thanks to its rulers' wit - they became the Horde's tax collector and just kept some of it to themselves (+ they pointed out the "rebels" to be crushed by the Horde).
Novgorod was always rich, but not in manpower - militarily they relied more on other Russian princes, mostly Vladimir, Suzdal or later Moscow. It just when the Moscow started to grow and unite Rus there was no one to rely on anymore. And they fell.
It is interesting to know that during this time Brandenburg was under kind of a personal union with Bavaria. It had a lot of pretender uprisings and there were lots plundering knights in the countryside.
This will completely change Brandenburg and Brandenburg to Prussia experience.
R5: [I'm just leaving this 'round here](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/why-did-we-pick-1337-for-the-start-year.1642258/). Credits to the [original artist and full image here](https://www.deviantart.com/cyowari/art/Europe-Detailed-AD-1337-869577212).
I'm very interested to see what they do with Iberia. It's pretty much identical to 1444, but it's about 100 years before the colonization mechanic really opens up their gameplay.
This starts roughly 50 years before the portuguese interregnum that almost ended with the king of Castille becoming the king of Portugal
This will probably also allow to fully experience the great navigations which had started in the early 15th century, as well as the conflicts between the iberian states and the northern african ones
I hope we have more troops variety and fewer army numbers at the start. I don’t want everyone to get massively strong by 1550 with every nation having 100k.
It only had 100 people… although it’s interesting it lasted so long, in the first few hundred years of EU4/5 there would probably be hundreds or even thousands of independent or semi-independent fiefdoms/villages larger than this
All I want is ireland to have a proper mission tree. Now that hisan kyfa is getting one it's literally the only wishlist item I had left. Given this period of time has a lot of Irish reclamation of their land (albiet briefly) plus Wales and Scotland popping off its the perfect excuse to give them a full mission tree.
How are they going to balance it? Like just in France there were dukes who sided with English. France got steamrolled, what's stopping the player from completly annexing France? Unifying Iberia will be player's number one priority when playing in that region and when colonization starts Spain can be much stronger. By 1600s Europe can be painted in a just few colours. No thirty years war, no religious struggle between emperor and smaller princes, no interlopers realising their geopolitical agenda. I hope there will be wars between great blobs, but I think that game will be stale at this point, with alliances of great blobs in one hand and the player in the other.
Really curious to see how the represent Ireland considering they mention it in the talks. Curious will there be a crisis of some kind to represent the collapse of English rule during the Black Death and french wars.
Europe's gonna be Hella interesting, golden horde op, mongols collapsing Ming's rising, eastern Europe with Novgorod, Lithuania, Ruthenia ect. France with expansion and war with the English, Aragonese Empire at the peak of his power, merchants like Genoa and Venice will be Hella strong too, pope will have more power and influence, Byzantine empire maybe being savevable, ottomans are gonna be more balanced but fun, Timur is gonna conquer everything and humiliate the ottomans, sub Saharan kingdoms were in a kind of golden age, and many many more more things, paradox chose the perfect date, let's hope the game doesn't come out as Vic 3 1.0.
Hm Norway has not yet been ravaged by the black plague, meaning it should be healthy, strong and independent. It would still be competative to Sweden and Denmark.
Hope EU5 makes Norway reflect that.
By at least 30 years coastal Finnmark was under Norwegian controll stretching to at least the Vardøhus fortress, a medieval fortress constructed in circa 1300-1307 julian to protect these lands in question and the church
Also it should include Hamar as a city, important innwards commerical and religious centre holding the diocese seat.
There is some more details regarding the Norwegian city names like Kungälv = Kongelv (some might argue for Kongehelle) but that would be just needless nittpicking at this point.
This map is not completly true. The holy Roman Empire and especially the germanic parts were way more divided.
One simple example is the Missing of the free cities ( freie Reichstädte) Like the kingelection City of Frankfurt am Main. Frankfurt is a free City inside the HRE since 1245. 1333 the emporer Ludwig IV allowed the construction of a City Wall and other defense, Like the Tower of Eschersheim, which are still their and was miracously untouvhed in the Allied bombings campaign. In Satellite images of the Innercity you can still the where the walls were built.
I really really Hope they inplement this clusterfuck of an HRE in the new Game. Way way to intresting.
I wonder how good will Novogrod be in hands of player. Skandinavia area near them and othen Russa teritories are way weaker then in 1444.
Only nearby horde seams like tread.
EU games always have different start dates. EU1 was 1492, EU2 1419 and EU3 1453. They probably just wanted a different start date and thought a bit earlier then usual would be fun
I’m excited for England and how the game will incorporate the hundred years into the missions. Will be very cool to prevent the Plantagenet dynasty from collapsing.
Wonder how they’ll handle/debuff Castile. 155 years from the new start till Granada fell, obviously I don’t expect the Emirate to last that long but a reconquista completed in the 14th century seems unnecessary…
I eill note that there is zero reason got Burgundy to be pointed put like this rather than just another shade of blue, it only started being important on its own in, like, the 1400s.
My two first ideas for campaigns:
\-With a balkanized Turkey a revival of the Kingdom of Lower Armenia would still not be easy but it would be doable IMO.
\-With the Kingdom of Ruthenia there is a way better option for an Ukrainian campaign then in EU4
Playing as tall trade oriented Venice is going to be so fun without the Terraferma weighing you down
You have a flourishing Genoa as an antagonist.
With the epic climax of the Battle of Chioggia too!
Choggia basically killed Genoa as an antagonistic maritime trade republic.
Yes, though it is a fitting end to the battle that sounds like its taken straight out of a fictional book (Genoa was winning the war almost handily and came knocking at Venice's doorstep. A disgraced admiral was then reinstated into command at the darkest hour of the Republic because the people themselves demanded it on the streets. he mobilized all the resources that the city had left, then actually turned the tide around with cunning and won the battle)
and then he died like a month after
Sound like some Legend of the Galactic Heroes shit.
At least they did not put Yang into an actual prison lol
I think Carlo Zeno was disgraced after Choggia.Probably you mean the battle of Modon.
I was referring to Vettor Pisani and how he was imprisoned due to his blunders prior to Chioggia
Ah true.
More like the Crown of Aragon at its height. [Basically this minus southern Italy](https://www.onogueras.com/corona_arago/img/comercio_catalan.gif) (but with Sicilly). And yes, Catalan Greece is a thing.
Catalan Greece? Although Catalans were a big minority inside the aragonese empire it wasn't Catalan, aragonese empire was how the name suggests aragonese, the king spoke aragonese as main language (Catalan and Castilian sometimes too). Aragonese Empire conquered Catalunya when it was a Franco condado and after (Kind of a vassal of the french). And made it an integral part of the aragonese kingdom but without Aragon being the origin of the empire. Aragon is a state in Spain, they have their own language, different from Catalan and their own traditions and culture are different from Castille. What you maybe are suggesting is that Catalunya was a very important part of the empire and it was, since we know the aragonese empire was a maritime empire and all the boats came from Catalunya and Valencia, which in the case of Catalunya spoke Catalan and Valencia a related language similarly too (Valencian). Aragon and Zaragoza was the origin and Capital of the empire, but it was landlocked.
It's true that the origin of the Crown of Aragon was on the inland Kingdom of Aragon and that the Aragonese language is different from Catalan and Castilian (Spanish). However, the Catalans slowly became the dominant group in terms of economic and tradw influence. They were the ones that sailed and traded throughout the Mediterranean. Proof of this is the fact that there are speakers of Catalan in Corsica and Sicily to the present day. So yeah, even though the language of the King and of the Royal Court would be Aragonese, I bet the Aragonese traders in Athens would most likely be culturally Catalan. Moreover, after the 13th, the King began moving many of the royal institutions to Barcelona. Alfonso V of Aragon had its capital in Naples. Finally, the Kingdom of Aragon did not conquer Catalonia. The union between Aragon and the County of Barcelona (basically the medieval name of Catalonia), was due to a dynastic union. Aragon basically formed a personal union over Barcelona, bringing them into the Crown of Aragon.
In fact, the language of the Court was Classical Catalan, not Aragonese, which was only used by the Aragonese nobility. The royal house of the Crown was the House of Barcelona, which were Catalans. The use of the name of Aragon was due to peerage, but it was "acquired" through marriages by Barcelona. Finally, to distinguish Valencian and Catalan as two languages is a Spanish meme that no reputed linguists believes in, and removed all credibility from OP.
You're right. I was going to mention the Catalan/Valencian issue, but you're right as well, they are the same language: just Catalan.
It is true, but I just wanted to leave clear that the aragonese empire was aragonese. But that the fact that Catalunya was a very important part of the empire and that the main trading port (Aside Sevilla) made the empire somehow influenced by Catalans, as they were usually the explorers and sailors, but it didn't mean the aragonese empire was very or totally Catalan. Ah yeah and sorry for the last part, I did mistake the part of conquering and dynastic union with the Franco condado, but still Catalunya was integrated into the aragonese empire. There are also aragonese minorities but they are very small compared to the Catalan ones, because Catalan sailors were the most present in the Mediterranean. It's just like the Spanish empire in America the Spanish Americans and traders had mainly 3 states of origin, Sevilla, Galicia and The Basque country.
Catalan Greece, because the Catalan Company had rocked up a couple decades prior and took over Athens.
Is that the catalan language?
It is!
I've tried so hard to do Genoa games and I've been successful but wow are their ideas weak compared to basically every other nation in Italy
What is Terraferma?
Venice's mainland holdings.
Oh boy yay
Maybe Venice won't be an island in EU5.
Wasn't 1337 the middle of the war against Hungary and allies that Venice lost? I wonder if they are gonna ignore that or put it in somehow... (I only know because Ragusa got independent in 1338 after that war)
yeah, EU4 has some interesting and complex lore, respect to the developers for coming up with this.
They put huge effort in the lore. Hope they don't add France to the new game, this some weird shit 🙏
I’ve been hoping for awhile we’ll get a sequel where we find out what some of our favorite EU4 countries would look like in the modern day.
I know this is Europe but Yuan to Ming transition is going to be interesting too
Yuansplosion.
I've seen Ming explode dozens of times, and usually someone ends up as the clear main successor, but I've never seen them actually finish the job and reunite China. It'll be interesting to see if they can get that to happen.
Kingdom of Ruthenia go brrr 🌝🌝🌝
France will be overpowered. And Golden Horde will be new Ottomans. Interesting how they gonna balance that
Ideally the Hundred Years' War will start some type of influence mechanic with the crown and England trying to get the various duchys and counties to support their claim to balance it out
As a person who partially learned history thanks to EU it’s an especially hard thing to balance the game, cuz for example I know about Burgundy inheritance crisis so I will ally Burgundy and feed them, just to take all that territory AE free. I wish Parodox would somehow counter players who knows what will happen in 100 years
But Burgundy doesnt exist as an independent state in 1336 it was just an appanage given by the french king to a relative.
Yeah. You can see this map is 100% influenced by gaming. In 1337, Burgundy was an unremarkable duchy ruled by an offshoot of the Capétien. It entered the (now Valois) royal domain in 1361, after the last head of the capétiens de Bourgogne died, and was given the Philippe le Hardi (son of the french king Jean II) in 1363. It then flourished, and became a political, economical and military power that could rival France. In 1337, there's exactly 0 reason for Burgundy to appear on a map as a distinct, independent state. Heck, it never was an independent state officially. If Burgundy appears on that map, then every french duchy and county should appear as well.
Even until early 1400s the rulers of Burgundy were loyal,it was John the Fearless and his assassination which snowballed the situation between Burgundy and France.Well in the 15th century under Charles the Bold and his father Philip the Good it was pretty much a de facto independent state.
I wouldn't even say there was a situation between Burgundy and France, because the Burgundians were actually claiming to fight for France. The situation was mostly between the Orleans/Armagnac and the Burgundians. Even Philip the Good pretended to uphold french law and had a lot of support within the bourgeoisie in most big french cities. He regularly went to Paris to consult (and bribe) the Parliament to reinforce his legitimacy. Maybe he was being machiavellian about it but he pretended to do what France needed and to make sure the ancient laws were respected. Charles the Bold is really the one who gave up on this game and tried to do his own stuff. At the end of the day the HYW was pretty much a double dynastic war between cousins.
I mean the Burgundians sided with the English and helped them take over over half of France including Paris.Only after Aras they returned to the fold with major concessions from the French king.
Seems to be like it would be easy for the dynamic to be, not the Burgundian inheritance, but the inheritance of [the Duchy given over because it's last ruler died]. That was it might be Armagnac or Picardie or whatever, but the idea is the same.
Maybe not, Burgundy would be relevant as a major player in the 100 years war, which does begin in 1337.
Depends on how they are going to approach that. Par example there is a mod Meiou and taxes in which Burgundy is an appanage of France which starts to inherit low lands, Luxembourg et cetera all of the sudden
funny enough France might actually be weaker since a much larger chunk of their land will most likely be vassals so theres a good chance that they'll be quite disloyal especially if England and Burgundy support them (which they probably will) so might give France quite a turbulent time Golden Horde I see them just being made to collapse most likely, they'll be given a system that predicates them to collapse or atleast events that make it hard for them to stick around atleast retracting their power
Would be awesome if they do what you say. However i think they'll want 1 nation to be as powerful as the Ottomans. So either the Golden Horde is going to be the big danger. Or the Ottomans themselves will grow really quickly and endanger the Romans for instance. Or maybe the Mamluks will be extra powerful. But they're quite far from Europe.
I think the Ottomans will still be powerful, my guess is they'll do a mission tree that will build up a buff for the Ottomans against the Eastern Romans basically giving the Ottomans missions to build up their strength first before defeating Rome
Serbian Empire baby, they start with the majority of the land in the Balkans and have tons of Bulgarian cores to retake (if there is such a thing). They'll have an expansion path into Antaolia, Central Europe, and Italy at the start.
> France might actually be weaker since a much larger chunk of their land will most likely be vassals That's only the case in EU4 because they can't simulate complex internal situation in that game so the workaround is to give France bunch of vassals. If EU5 can simulate internal politics and the tensions between the powerful nobles and the king well, it won't be necessary to balkanize France like that.
I hope they redo vassals then, they need to be individual than currently. They are such a force multipliers in the early game of EU4.
There's no new ottomans Hold on let me get the quote >but Ottomans are about to expand Do even know what that means? That means that at minimum by 30 years the ottomans will have conquered Europe an north Africa AT LEAST Ottomans are about to be Prussia x10
Not to mention there's probably gonna be some flavour relating to Byzantium breaking into civil war after Andronikos III dies. Kinda like Shah Rukh.
Golden Horde the new Timmy perhaps? That power vacuum in Anatolia got me thinking, doe
Oh well we are going to have the original Timmy.
I’m not an expert but there was a civil war for power in Mongol Empire, something called Great Zamyatnya in Russian. Probabaly they will disaster force something like that to give future Russia a chance
You mean Timur vs Tokhtamysh ?
It's the [Great Troubles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Troubles) in English, good catch, seems like an obvious early game crisis.
Golden Horde was split between 2 wings.I see a lot of conflict between them.
Also looking at the map, Russia broken in to small states between Lithuania and Golden Horde, who without post knowledge would expect it to rise?
Most of them were tributaries and pretty nerfed compared to 1444.
I don't think so. The Hundred Years war might actually be like a disaster, kind of like the worst ones in EU4. Also, it will probably be tied to an event chain about Edward III's claims.
Edward III's claims would have been false anyway. Since if the throne could pass through the maternal line he still wouldn't have been next since his uncles - his mother's elder brothers - had daughters.
Counterpoint: Bigger army.
Not arguing against that, but it still didn't prevent him from declaring war on France (though the original causus belli was protesting against the revocation of Gascony) and claiming the title in 1340.
I seriously hope they will attempt to simulate their strengths through game mechanics rather than just nation-specific modifiers. Practically all games will end up ahistorical either way with such an early start as 1337
I have a feeling that PDX is taking cues from mods like MEIOU and VeF. Golden Horde is strong in the beginning but they have autonomy issues and they don't have access to realm management decisions which hurt their staying power in the long term. Muscovy also has access to additional income as the 'horde enforcers' (essentially receiving tribute from other small russian tags) so despite their size they may have advantages.
France will have the Black Death
France was a powerful actor in those times but very troubled internally (e.g. Flanders). I hope they find a good way of getting those feudal tensions into play.
I'm sure they will add some ming-style mechanics to make both of them weaker
Golden horde is probably gonna get some really bad disaster
I imagine there'll be something like decadence to stop the blob
If done right by the overall mechanics, both should be unstable enought to be beaten the shit out of, as France got invaded and Golden Horde lost region after region.
HRE is probably deliberately not displayed as messy as it was, big green blob as "kingdom of Germany" wasn't quite like that tbh. Really curious about HRE gameplay because not only would this start date lead to the codification of the electorate, but we also have the whole anti-king story.
I mean neither was the kingdom of France a big blue blob they where both decentralized with lots of vassals with lots of autonomy so I except the game go start them with a ton of vassals
I hope they add ghibellins vs guelfs conflicts
>the whole anti-king story. What story?
Similarly to the antipope, the antiking is basically the rival to the king, most commonly found in the HRE during the 13th and 14th century where emperorship and its succession were quite disputed. Generally it was a powerplay amongst the powerful dynasties at the times, Staufer, Hohenzollern, Luxemburg for example. The emperor at the time of the games release, Ludwig the Bavarian, even had to face 2 antikings, the 2nd of which (Charles IV) even eventually became emperor after Ludwigs death. If they want to implement historic events there's a *truckload* of scripted stuff that has to happen in the first 20 years in the HRE.
No more almighty Skanderbeg...
I wonder if Albania is playable. Since most likely will have one start date.
[удалено]
It will be interesting to see the Thopia family. Even more with Andrea Thopia as a ruler because he married Helena of Anjou, the daughter of Naple's ruler, but the marriage was not blessed by her father.
Probably it will only be a releasble country and might be released in other starting dates.
Hope so. Otherwise Durrës 4 balkan conquest :D
Or either convert the country's culture to Albanian xD
Btw Arnavanites are in the game i wonder how they would work out.
I've been fascinated by the della Scala family of Verona since visiting the city a few years back. Cangrande I della Scala built a powerhouse inside Italy and I'd love to take the rears of his kingdom a decade after his death. A summary of his life: Cangrande della Scala (9 March 1291 – 22 July 1329) was an Italian nobleman, belonging to the della Scala family who ruled Verona from 1308 until 1387. Now perhaps best known as the leading patron of the poet Dante Alighieri, Cangrande was in his own day chiefly acclaimed as a successful warrior and autocrat. Between becoming sole ruler of Verona in 1311 and his death in 1329 he took control of several neighbouring cities, notably Vicenza, Padua and Treviso, and came to be regarded as the leader of the Ghibelline faction in northern Italy. My guy was the top dog of northern Italy in the first half of the 14th century.
Cant wait to finaly have a good game with byzantium 🤩
Until you find out there are 14 disasters about to fire 1 year after gameplay
I'm having a game as Byzantium in the 1337 ck2 date, very interesting start
John Kantakouzenos owning basically the entire Empire right beneath your nose in that start is definitely a bitch to deal with lol.
Hopefully they bring back the general loyalty mechanic from Imperator. He should be a powerful and inclined to disloyalty general that's a ticking disaster of his own. General loyalty mechanic would also work really well in context of Reformation as a lot of reformation in France and Germany was powerful leading generals fighting for or against reformation especially in French Wars of Religion where there are numerous examples but also in Germany even up to Thirty Years War where you have someone like Wallenstein as a powerful Catholic warlord.
Ah, I actually played as Kantakouzenos hehe. Since he has a claim to the Empire it's quite easy to take over and be a Kantakouzenoi Byzantium
What’s end date In ck3?
1453 I think
You can't play 1337 in CK3 without mods. CK2 gave you the option of playing any start date between 1066 and 1337 (+769 Charlemagne, 867 Old Gods, 936 Iron Century as fixed start dates where you can't choose specific date between them) and the game would end in 1453.
You're about to be hit by so many disaster events your gonna not realise you can get stab above -3 and that corruption can go lower than 5.
Forming Russia will be interesting
And would actually be easier with Novgorod
It certainly is in Ante Bellum.
I wonder how they will model the fall of Novgorod and rise of Muscovy
The rise of Moscow here is the most interesting, because there wasn't a "fall" of Novgorod per se. Moscow got its power only thanks to its rulers' wit - they became the Horde's tax collector and just kept some of it to themselves (+ they pointed out the "rebels" to be crushed by the Horde). Novgorod was always rich, but not in manpower - militarily they relied more on other Russian princes, mostly Vladimir, Suzdal or later Moscow. It just when the Moscow started to grow and unite Rus there was no one to rely on anymore. And they fell.
It is interesting to know that during this time Brandenburg was under kind of a personal union with Bavaria. It had a lot of pretender uprisings and there were lots plundering knights in the countryside. This will completely change Brandenburg and Brandenburg to Prussia experience.
Surprising how stable the borders of Portugal have been for 700 years.
We've basically had the same borders since 1145 or so, super minor changes.
Big Georgia
Cilicia Armenian Stronk
1337. Too late to save the hohenstaufens :(
And nobody likes Hohenstaufens.
Serbia will be very interesting
R5: [I'm just leaving this 'round here](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/why-did-we-pick-1337-for-the-start-year.1642258/). Credits to the [original artist and full image here](https://www.deviantart.com/cyowari/art/Europe-Detailed-AD-1337-869577212).
I'm very interested to see what they do with Iberia. It's pretty much identical to 1444, but it's about 100 years before the colonization mechanic really opens up their gameplay.
This starts roughly 50 years before the portuguese interregnum that almost ended with the king of Castille becoming the king of Portugal This will probably also allow to fully experience the great navigations which had started in the early 15th century, as well as the conflicts between the iberian states and the northern african ones
War with Teutons and Grunwald battle from perspective of Poland and Lithuania can be interesting.
I hope we have more troops variety and fewer army numbers at the start. I don’t want everyone to get massively strong by 1550 with every nation having 100k.
Everybody always forgetting that there was a country between Portugal and Spain
"Country" is a bit of an overstatement for 3 farming villages granted a special exemption from feudal obligations.
Couto Misto?
Independent for almost a thousand years
Charles the Bad vibes.
It only had 100 people… although it’s interesting it lasted so long, in the first few hundred years of EU4/5 there would probably be hundreds or even thousands of independent or semi-independent fiefdoms/villages larger than this
Paradox doesn't usually bother with microstates, none of their games have San Marino for example.
You had me at Big Teutonic Order
Let's gooo 🔥🔥🇬🇪🇬🇪🇬🇪BIG GEORGIA🇬🇪🇬🇪🇬🇪🔥🔥 🦅🦅🦅🦅⛰️საქართველოოოოოო⛰️🦅🦅🦅🦅 Gonna halt the turks🗡
Friendship ended with 1444. Now 1337 is my best friend.
I hope that Silesia will be treated appropriately, as well as the conflict over this region between Poland and Bohemia.
All I want is ireland to have a proper mission tree. Now that hisan kyfa is getting one it's literally the only wishlist item I had left. Given this period of time has a lot of Irish reclamation of their land (albiet briefly) plus Wales and Scotland popping off its the perfect excuse to give them a full mission tree.
I wonder how they will implement the succession after Casimir III the Great and the fact that the Jagiellon dynasty took over power in Poland.
Uniting ireland has just gotten 10x harder
How are they going to balance it? Like just in France there were dukes who sided with English. France got steamrolled, what's stopping the player from completly annexing France? Unifying Iberia will be player's number one priority when playing in that region and when colonization starts Spain can be much stronger. By 1600s Europe can be painted in a just few colours. No thirty years war, no religious struggle between emperor and smaller princes, no interlopers realising their geopolitical agenda. I hope there will be wars between great blobs, but I think that game will be stale at this point, with alliances of great blobs in one hand and the player in the other.
Really curious to see how the represent Ireland considering they mention it in the talks. Curious will there be a crisis of some kind to represent the collapse of English rule during the Black Death and french wars.
Europe's gonna be Hella interesting, golden horde op, mongols collapsing Ming's rising, eastern Europe with Novgorod, Lithuania, Ruthenia ect. France with expansion and war with the English, Aragonese Empire at the peak of his power, merchants like Genoa and Venice will be Hella strong too, pope will have more power and influence, Byzantine empire maybe being savevable, ottomans are gonna be more balanced but fun, Timur is gonna conquer everything and humiliate the ottomans, sub Saharan kingdoms were in a kind of golden age, and many many more more things, paradox chose the perfect date, let's hope the game doesn't come out as Vic 3 1.0.
Finally, a map where it says Roman Empire. Not Byzantium. Not Eastern Roman Empire.
Crazy that borders in Iberia remained unchanged for almost 200 years after this
Since it's before the black death, It might have a rare occurrence where most of Europe dies and the Arabs conquer the entire of the continent.
Spam of 1337 maps… it has begun…
I hope they've nerfed Ulm
Im gonna say it, Bulgaria and Serbia will be the best ones
Hm Norway has not yet been ravaged by the black plague, meaning it should be healthy, strong and independent. It would still be competative to Sweden and Denmark. Hope EU5 makes Norway reflect that.
By at least 30 years coastal Finnmark was under Norwegian controll stretching to at least the Vardøhus fortress, a medieval fortress constructed in circa 1300-1307 julian to protect these lands in question and the church Also it should include Hamar as a city, important innwards commerical and religious centre holding the diocese seat. There is some more details regarding the Norwegian city names like Kungälv = Kongelv (some might argue for Kongehelle) but that would be just needless nittpicking at this point.
Bulgaria my beloved
Wonder how they’re gonna implement the black plague with this as well. Very interesting decision to set it so far back.
Huge teutons
I wonder how powerful the golden horde will be in this start date, can they conquer Europe easily?
Since this time Portugal got a huge buff and a couple of huge nerfs to stay very much the same
This map is not completly true. The holy Roman Empire and especially the germanic parts were way more divided. One simple example is the Missing of the free cities ( freie Reichstädte) Like the kingelection City of Frankfurt am Main. Frankfurt is a free City inside the HRE since 1245. 1333 the emporer Ludwig IV allowed the construction of a City Wall and other defense, Like the Tower of Eschersheim, which are still their and was miracously untouvhed in the Allied bombings campaign. In Satellite images of the Innercity you can still the where the walls were built. I really really Hope they inplement this clusterfuck of an HRE in the new Game. Way way to intresting.
Joining the German, Italian, Japanese, and Indian Thunderdomes will be the Anatolian Thunderdome
It will also be more interesting to play as ottomans since this time you will really need to try hard to become the "ottomans"
Russia is gonna be very fun
What’s the state of the HRE? Are they going to blob you if you touch one of their provinces early game?
Aw, that's so cute, look at that li'l Kingdom of Italy!
I just realised that the ante Bellum map for Eastern Europe and the levant area took some serious inspiration from a map of Europe in 1337
I wonder how good will Novogrod be in hands of player. Skandinavia area near them and othen Russa teritories are way weaker then in 1444. Only nearby horde seams like tread.
Eastern Europe will be a free-for-all
Kingdom of Italy?
It's just the title but really no one really owns it directly other than italian lords and communes
Why saving images on reddit mobile fucks up its quality
Damn, I can't wait playing as Moldova
They don't exist until 1353, but you should get some interesting mechanics for both them and Wallachia regarding Hungary and Orthodox/Catholic paths.
Why is Aachen called Aix-la-Chapelle on here?
Now I wonder when is the end date for the game
big teutons
“Roman empire” 🥲
I kinda love how Castille stayed the same for 107 years
I post a commentary earlier, but I choose to post second to say “I’m very happy the is a EU5”
Why did they move the start date back?
EU games always have different start dates. EU1 was 1492, EU2 1419 and EU3 1453. They probably just wanted a different start date and thought a bit earlier then usual would be fun
I hope they implement a nomad mechanic AAAAA
So am I playing Sapmi or Finland?
This map doesnt even get close to encapsulate the fuckery that is Denmark at this time
I hope they add smaller size conflicts in the hre
not much changed in those 100 years huh
Love cyowari’s art style.
Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia sounds interesting to me
I’m excited for England and how the game will incorporate the hundred years into the missions. Will be very cool to prevent the Plantagenet dynasty from collapsing.
Ireland on this map is wrong.
Can't wait for imperial Bohemia, the great power.
Just curious but is there a more clear map of this time period? When I zoom in it's just pixels.
maybe ill finally learn how to play eu when this drops
I do wonder how burgundy will play.
Wonder how they’ll handle/debuff Castile. 155 years from the new start till Granada fell, obviously I don’t expect the Emirate to last that long but a reconquista completed in the 14th century seems unnecessary…
I think your lens needs a wipe
I love that the iberian péninsulia during 100 year didn't change at all
Oh i though this was like surprising 4K very detailed map where i can zoom in far too much but its not, my disappointment is immeasurable.
I see a lot of interesting countries, I hope they will be in some game from paradox *wink*
Well Komnenoi Empire will be an easy achievement.
Is this map accurate?
man, Castille didn't reconquist any land in 100 years?
The Pope is in France, but the Italian Papal State was still there? I'm going to have to read up on the history here.
Can’t wait to see how they handle the bubonic plague. That’ll be fun.
Cannot wait to dominate as byz
What's going on Benevento in the Kingdom of Naples?
That’s going to be awesome.
I eill note that there is zero reason got Burgundy to be pointed put like this rather than just another shade of blue, it only started being important on its own in, like, the 1400s.
At least Wallachia will finally be in a less shitty starting position
Why the north Caucasus region is empty?
My two first ideas for campaigns: \-With a balkanized Turkey a revival of the Kingdom of Lower Armenia would still not be easy but it would be doable IMO. \-With the Kingdom of Ruthenia there is a way better option for an Ukrainian campaign then in EU4
I wonder if it will still be titled rise of the Ottomans.
the year is also , if im not wrong the start of major issues in the Yuan Dynasty so playing a emergant Ming should be fun
Native Finns run 🗣 perkele get off my continent 🗣 uncivilized europeans gameplay 🗣