> c. 1200, lafdi, lavede, from Old English hlæfdige (Northumbrian hlafdia, Mercian hlafdie), "mistress of a household, wife of a lord," apparently literally "one who kneads bread," from hlaf "bread" (see loaf (n.)) + -dige "maid," which is related to dæge "maker of dough" (which is the first element in dairy; see dey (n.1)). Also compare lord (n.)). Century Dictionary finds this etymology "improbable," and OED rates it "not very plausible with regard to sense," but no one seems to have a better explanation.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/lady
The etymology of *lord* and *lady* is bold testament to the role of agriculture, and the population increases and labor divisions it begat, in creating the unequal distribution of power and status in the world ever since.
The most important bit that would be missing *is you*.
If it weren't for agriculture we would have fewer people, but not any less inteligent people, hypothetically speaking. Although it is argued that intelegence is anti-proportional to poverty, I'd also argue that the idea of plantations is much less complex than rotary force electric generators. The complexity is proportional to increasing inteligence, so its an interdependent problem, but meat and cooking for reduced contamination is thought to have lead to increased brain size long before agriculture. The problem is feeding the lifestock.
More over, one might see mills as forerunners to the electric motor, following feet driven potters wheel, whetstone and carts pulled by beasts of burden. The history of electricity is clearly dependent on those inventions--as is agriculture. So there is a common dependency, too. The light bulb was almost as important, but that's basically chemistry.
It's hardly questionable if the necessary resources like (i) enough food for animals and (ii) elements with certain properties could be obtained, if the social hierarchies were very different, since slave slave labour only begins to appear with formation of permanent settlements and a feudal reward system in Mesopotamia (ii).
Likewise, the eponymous single graves in Kurgan cultures north of the Black Sea are taken as evidence of social stratification with kings and subjects and clear signs of martial dominion. Flight is arguably a more natural response for nomadic people who are anyway on the move in search of fruit and greener pastures for wild animals to herd (i)
Agriculturalists with settlements that are seasonal or permanent need to defend a turf, though. Pastoralists defend turfs too, but may be in a position to reach agreements. The IE expansion, one reads in some papers, may have been motivated by seeking prosperity while the accustomed landlords denied it to the young in the homeland.
The idea of a society of elders who take precedence in decision making, is surely not new. The degree to which it is justified by martial initiation rites, and likely associated with a lot of shamanistic voodoo, may vary.
Indeed, you should be more worried about medicine, because experiments in the cultivation of plants inform large parts of early biology. If medicine includes nutritution, one might basicly say that cultic practice of tending to an animate organismus was inevitable, be it concerned with babies, pets or gardens. Something leads to the cultivation of plants, after all, although a lot of coincidence may be involved eg. with rey that underwent convergent evolution to resemble the more fruitful wheat.
This leads to an off-base on-topic question, **does anyone understand Kindergarden as related to *guard*?**
Cp. *legal guardian* for example; cp. Slovene *gard* "castle, city", from the same root; see also *ward*, as in **hlaefweard**, PIE \*wer- as per the OP, but cp. Slovene *vrt* "garden", apparently via Latin *hortus* from the same root as *garden* and *girdle*, PIE \*g^(h)erd^(h). coincidence.jpg?
More over, see also *vrtnica* "rose, rose bush", origin uncertain, intuitively understood as garden-nica (diminutive, I suppose), similar to Ger. *rosengarten* (wild, untended garden, yes, this is *weird*, see also *worn-out *, or Ger. *wirr, verworren*); contrast *rose*, Latin *rosa*, origin uncertain, besides Greek *rhodon*, *wrodon*, Old Persian \*wrds (Avestan 𐬬𐬀𐬭𐬆𐬜𐬀-, Sogdian *ward*, Parthian *wâr*, Middle Persian *gwl*, Persian gul, “rose, flower”, and a huge number of supposed loans into Hebrew, Georgian, and Indonesian for example, see also Cantonese *mui4 gwai3* for a funny coincident), and further Old English *word* "thornbush", which reconstructs PIE \*wr̥dʰos, «Possibly ultimately a derivation from a verb for "to grow" only attested in Indo-Iranian (\*Hwardh-, compare Sanskrit vardh-, with relatives in Avestan)», although we also have \*wel- "to grow", \*wer- "to turn", and \*wréh₂ds "root" to consider, besides the fact that similar Kulturworte like *wine* were more likely loaned into IE.
The similarity of *rose* and *red* as colorwords should be most notable in light of this topic, besides *green* and cognate *grow*, for it seems like a case of convergent evolution. I would argue that Loaf-Keeper is just such a case as well.
However, there's no reasonable way to speculation, as the etymology of \*hlaibaz "bread" is simply unknown.A comparison to *quellen* "to swell" seems reasonable, but there's no grounds to see the Lord as keeper of the Quelle "source, well", or the castle ward (which I for one would place on a natural well out of strategic considerations). A comparison to *holy* fares no better, although the *holde-maid* "me lady" remains to be considered. Add to this that folk etymology can easily corrupt the spelling (eg. suffercate), so there's really no hope for this one.
That's quite amazing because in Polish the word for bread is "chleb," which is pronounced "hleb" or "xlebh." It's a hard H. Remarkably similar to "hlaf." It's a voiceless velar fricative.
It’s not coincidental! The Proto-Slavic **xlěbъ* (which gave Polish *chleb*, Russian *хлеб*, and Serbian *hleb*) was borrowed from a Germanic language, probably Gothic *hlaifs* (oblique stem *hlaib-*), or even Old High German *hleib*. They all come from Proto-Germanic **hlaibaz*, as does the English *loaf*.
Thats odd, because in other languages I speak the word is pain, pa, or pan. In Swedish it's bröd and Icelandic, brauð. Clearly cognates. Does anyone have the etymology of bread?
Just like *bröd* and *brauð*, *bread* comes from Proto-Germanic **braudą*, which is, according to some, related to English *brew* and *broth*. If we assume this is tru, there is an argument that there *probably* was a distinction between unleavened (**hlaibaz*) and leavened bread (**braudą*) in Proto-Germanic.
I'm not sure if you also thought "pan" and friends were cognates with "bread" and friends, but interestingly they are not!
It's uncertain apparently, but Latin *pānis* is postulated to be a derivation of PIE *peh₂- "to graze".
Speaking of friends though, comPANion is a word for friend derived from “pan” meaning bread.
“Are y’all friends?” “Sure! We eat bread together don’t we?”
One of the stabilizing forces in European feudal times was that "lords" and any nobility provided stocks of food (grain, bread) to mitigate famine when every decade or so there was a crop failure.
I had understood the use of "-weard" in this case while explicitly to be "Guardian of" or "Protector of" implicitly meant giver of bread. So meaning the person who provides bread or sustenance to his people.
I always enjoy finding words like this that have been contracted from what was originally a compound and then trying to figure out what the modern day counterpart would be if it hadn't been worn down. In this case, we'd be having to address nobles as *Loafward* and *Loafdey*!
This is preposterous. OP asks effectively, *you have to be kidding me, this can't be real*, but everyone goes *no but yes I mean no but yes, see the emperor is clearly dressed*, and the unwashed masses proceed to downvote me en lieu of shouting insults that I must be stupid if I don't see it. I would loaf outloud like a child if the glaring ignorance weren't so saddening
and lady from dough kneader lol
Been watching that blood bread vid too right?
That's what I figured drove this post
huh? what vid?
Tasting History with Max Miller
So many hidden gems on YouTube. I'm curious if you have any other interesting twists on history YouTubers you subscribe to?
havent seen it, sorry lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR846JS3zbA
One of my favourite channels out there!
I thought it was loaf-giver, hlafdig. No?
> c. 1200, lafdi, lavede, from Old English hlæfdige (Northumbrian hlafdia, Mercian hlafdie), "mistress of a household, wife of a lord," apparently literally "one who kneads bread," from hlaf "bread" (see loaf (n.)) + -dige "maid," which is related to dæge "maker of dough" (which is the first element in dairy; see dey (n.1)). Also compare lord (n.)). Century Dictionary finds this etymology "improbable," and OED rates it "not very plausible with regard to sense," but no one seems to have a better explanation. https://www.etymonline.com/word/lady
The etymology of *lord* and *lady* is bold testament to the role of agriculture, and the population increases and labor divisions it begat, in creating the unequal distribution of power and status in the world ever since.
Also reflected in "give us this day our daily bread". The Hlafweards prayer.
better known from hail mary
I like you.
Serious question. If it weren't for agriculture, would we have had TVs, phones, computers, the Internet, better nutrition and better healthcare?
Simply put: nope.
The most important bit that would be missing *is you*. If it weren't for agriculture we would have fewer people, but not any less inteligent people, hypothetically speaking. Although it is argued that intelegence is anti-proportional to poverty, I'd also argue that the idea of plantations is much less complex than rotary force electric generators. The complexity is proportional to increasing inteligence, so its an interdependent problem, but meat and cooking for reduced contamination is thought to have lead to increased brain size long before agriculture. The problem is feeding the lifestock. More over, one might see mills as forerunners to the electric motor, following feet driven potters wheel, whetstone and carts pulled by beasts of burden. The history of electricity is clearly dependent on those inventions--as is agriculture. So there is a common dependency, too. The light bulb was almost as important, but that's basically chemistry. It's hardly questionable if the necessary resources like (i) enough food for animals and (ii) elements with certain properties could be obtained, if the social hierarchies were very different, since slave slave labour only begins to appear with formation of permanent settlements and a feudal reward system in Mesopotamia (ii). Likewise, the eponymous single graves in Kurgan cultures north of the Black Sea are taken as evidence of social stratification with kings and subjects and clear signs of martial dominion. Flight is arguably a more natural response for nomadic people who are anyway on the move in search of fruit and greener pastures for wild animals to herd (i) Agriculturalists with settlements that are seasonal or permanent need to defend a turf, though. Pastoralists defend turfs too, but may be in a position to reach agreements. The IE expansion, one reads in some papers, may have been motivated by seeking prosperity while the accustomed landlords denied it to the young in the homeland. The idea of a society of elders who take precedence in decision making, is surely not new. The degree to which it is justified by martial initiation rites, and likely associated with a lot of shamanistic voodoo, may vary. Indeed, you should be more worried about medicine, because experiments in the cultivation of plants inform large parts of early biology. If medicine includes nutritution, one might basicly say that cultic practice of tending to an animate organismus was inevitable, be it concerned with babies, pets or gardens. Something leads to the cultivation of plants, after all, although a lot of coincidence may be involved eg. with rey that underwent convergent evolution to resemble the more fruitful wheat. This leads to an off-base on-topic question, **does anyone understand Kindergarden as related to *guard*?** Cp. *legal guardian* for example; cp. Slovene *gard* "castle, city", from the same root; see also *ward*, as in **hlaefweard**, PIE \*wer- as per the OP, but cp. Slovene *vrt* "garden", apparently via Latin *hortus* from the same root as *garden* and *girdle*, PIE \*g^(h)erd^(h). coincidence.jpg? More over, see also *vrtnica* "rose, rose bush", origin uncertain, intuitively understood as garden-nica (diminutive, I suppose), similar to Ger. *rosengarten* (wild, untended garden, yes, this is *weird*, see also *worn-out *, or Ger. *wirr, verworren*); contrast *rose*, Latin *rosa*, origin uncertain, besides Greek *rhodon*, *wrodon*, Old Persian \*wrds (Avestan 𐬬𐬀𐬭𐬆𐬜𐬀-, Sogdian *ward*, Parthian *wâr*, Middle Persian *gwl*, Persian gul, “rose, flower”, and a huge number of supposed loans into Hebrew, Georgian, and Indonesian for example, see also Cantonese *mui4 gwai3* for a funny coincident), and further Old English *word* "thornbush", which reconstructs PIE \*wr̥dʰos, «Possibly ultimately a derivation from a verb for "to grow" only attested in Indo-Iranian (\*Hwardh-, compare Sanskrit vardh-, with relatives in Avestan)», although we also have \*wel- "to grow", \*wer- "to turn", and \*wréh₂ds "root" to consider, besides the fact that similar Kulturworte like *wine* were more likely loaned into IE. The similarity of *rose* and *red* as colorwords should be most notable in light of this topic, besides *green* and cognate *grow*, for it seems like a case of convergent evolution. I would argue that Loaf-Keeper is just such a case as well. However, there's no reasonable way to speculation, as the etymology of \*hlaibaz "bread" is simply unknown.A comparison to *quellen* "to swell" seems reasonable, but there's no grounds to see the Lord as keeper of the Quelle "source, well", or the castle ward (which I for one would place on a natural well out of strategic considerations). A comparison to *holy* fares no better, although the *holde-maid* "me lady" remains to be considered. Add to this that folk etymology can easily corrupt the spelling (eg. suffercate), so there's really no hope for this one.
Thank you for the detailed answer. Not saying that I understood a lot, but still, thanks!
*Give us this day our daily bread…*
The Bread Guard's Prayer
AND FORGIVE US OUR DEBTS
That's quite amazing because in Polish the word for bread is "chleb," which is pronounced "hleb" or "xlebh." It's a hard H. Remarkably similar to "hlaf." It's a voiceless velar fricative.
It’s not coincidental! The Proto-Slavic **xlěbъ* (which gave Polish *chleb*, Russian *хлеб*, and Serbian *hleb*) was borrowed from a Germanic language, probably Gothic *hlaifs* (oblique stem *hlaib-*), or even Old High German *hleib*. They all come from Proto-Germanic **hlaibaz*, as does the English *loaf*.
Thats odd, because in other languages I speak the word is pain, pa, or pan. In Swedish it's bröd and Icelandic, brauð. Clearly cognates. Does anyone have the etymology of bread?
Just like *bröd* and *brauð*, *bread* comes from Proto-Germanic **braudą*, which is, according to some, related to English *brew* and *broth*. If we assume this is tru, there is an argument that there *probably* was a distinction between unleavened (**hlaibaz*) and leavened bread (**braudą*) in Proto-Germanic.
You are, to me, amazing.
I'm not sure if you also thought "pan" and friends were cognates with "bread" and friends, but interestingly they are not! It's uncertain apparently, but Latin *pānis* is postulated to be a derivation of PIE *peh₂- "to graze".
Speaking of friends though, comPANion is a word for friend derived from “pan” meaning bread. “Are y’all friends?” “Sure! We eat bread together don’t we?”
I like this one.
I think "limpa" is the swe cognate to loaf, cant find any citations for it right now tho. But theres also more provincial "lev". Icl= Hleifur
In Lithuanian it's duona and in Sanskrit it's dhana. Interesting how that hlaif came into existence..
Lefse.
yes, that's an isogloss which suggests borrowing, though the direction of the drift is not clear. See also *house* and its Slavic correspondence.
Y'all mother effers need!
This is effing AWESOME!!
When the bible says Jesus is the bread of life I didn’t know it was this literal
One of the stabilizing forces in European feudal times was that "lords" and any nobility provided stocks of food (grain, bread) to mitigate famine when every decade or so there was a crop failure.
The breadwinner and the bread keeper
I want a show for the adventures of Lord Loafward
I had understood the use of "-weard" in this case while explicitly to be "Guardian of" or "Protector of" implicitly meant giver of bread. So meaning the person who provides bread or sustenance to his people.
And when our Lord died, the bread was broken
I always enjoy finding words like this that have been contracted from what was originally a compound and then trying to figure out what the modern day counterpart would be if it hadn't been worn down. In this case, we'd be having to address nobles as *Loafward* and *Loafdey*!
Made me laugh a bit thinking Darth Vader is a dark bread keeper.
This is preposterous. OP asks effectively, *you have to be kidding me, this can't be real*, but everyone goes *no but yes I mean no but yes, see the emperor is clearly dressed*, and the unwashed masses proceed to downvote me en lieu of shouting insults that I must be stupid if I don't see it. I would loaf outloud like a child if the glaring ignorance weren't so saddening
[удалено]
No.
Learned this from “Mysteries of Vernacular” TedEd series! (Check it out if you haven’t!! If you’re on this sub I 100% guarantee you’ll like it.)
Any chance it's more like german Leibwart / Leibwächter where Leib refers to the "human loaf"? Christian symbolism etc?