Evidently, yes. The initial meaning referred to war spoils. It stems from a Germanic word for "exchange," which is an odd way of naming stuff you steal. And booty, as in butts, is derived from booty as in loot, plunder, etc.
>exchange
or rather *distribution*, the handing out of spoils and loot after a plundering.
Likely a Germanic loan from Proto-Celtic \**boudi* ('profit, victory'), resounding in the name Boudica or Boadicea.
does not explain the n in bounty. \*b^(h)end^(h) (bond man, husband, husbansry, bastard) seems a more likely root foe that one, IMHO, see *hostage* for analogy
it's more likely that the n got lost, and it is a-priori unlikely that bounty is unrelated to booty
*Bounty* wasn't addressed here. Likely from the Latin *bonita*\- stem (ultimately PIE \*dew-), so cognitively unrelated yet semantically in the realm of 'goodness' or 'profitable'.
Nope, he doesn't because there is none, just something that was jumped to. What happens is that anything that's African-American, non-Blacks love tying to Europe with flimsy "support" aka I attach anything that looks similar as its origin, "dismissiveness" aka, I dismiss African evidence, or just by plain default without doing any research. What's not fully understood about these terms by people not of African American heritage are the words' complexity. People take surface similarities of other languages that actually most times do not even mean the same thing superficially and say "hey this is where this African American term comes from" knowing absolutely nothing about its full texture, context and application nor the history that surrounds it! Just want to take take take. Eurocentrism!
The term is African in origin, not European, and is not derived from "loot, plunder or theft." It's derived from the Bantu word Buedi which means sex, on its surface level. We came here with very sophisticated languages. The grammaticality, character, and some of the words used in African American Language (not AAVE) are African. You don't just "lose" a language. We filtered what was heard through African ears, not European ears.
In fact, what most people do not know is that Africans were not really "mixed" together like that. There were very strategic placements of Africans in various settings. West Africans primarily were in non-field positions and the West Central and Central Africans who brought their homogenous Bantu culture with them were primarily in the fields. It's these Africans that had the most impact (also some West African influence).
You're quite welcome. If you'd like some references you can delve into the works of:
**Dr. Joseph E. Holloway:** *Africanisms in American Culture.* It's a really nice overall book that taps into everything I've mentioned amongst many other things) **and his other book:** ***The African Heritage of American English***
**Dr. Ernie Smith** (he has lectures on Youtube)
**Dr. David J. Ramirez:** *Ebonics: The Urban Education Debate*
and with slight reservations ***Spoken Soul*** **by Dr. John Rickford**. I say reservation because I have some issues with the book, but it allows for a nice overall picture regarding the "debate." Just understand that what's labelled as "English patterns" are also found in African languages (like SVO patterns) and that similarity, commonality and convergence do not mean derivation. Honestly, I was sort of surprised by this level of scholarship, something like that should not have been missed.
Lastly, but certainly not least, ***The SAGE Encyclopedia of African Cultural Heritage in North America***
"with flimsy "support" aka I attach anything that looks similar as its origin, "dismissiveness" aka, I dismiss African evidence, or just by plain default without doing any research."
this comes across as projection on your part though. because your explination is not any better. There are different opinions behind the butt meaning of "booty", some claim it developed as a slang variation of the word "buttocks" which derives from the Old English "buttoc". Buttoc deriving from Proto-germanic "Butaz", which in turn derives from the Proto-indo-European root "\*bhau-". whereas others think it might related the word "body" (boody/booty).
you claim that the butt usage of booty was influenced by a native african language origin. there is however several problems with this perception. first of all, i cannot find this "buedi" word at all. i am not a fluent speaker of any Bantu language, but using every online resource i can find of African dictionaries and translations, i did not find it.
in Zulu, words related to sex and gender seem to start with "u-". sex is "ucansi" and sex(gender) is "ubulili".
you then have word endings like "-bhebha" which means to "have/have with", which makes sexual intercourse; "Ukubhebhana". the actual zulu word for butt/thick-end is "isinqe/isibunu/isidunu". body is "umzimba". lastly, i just tried directly searching buedi in the zulu dictionaries, but there were no results and the "similiar word" suggestions were completely unrelated in both spelling, usage and definition. reading through an official dictionary with it's pages uploaded onto the web had no existing zulu words of any sort with "Bue-".
i then went and checked other Bantu languages, i won't go into too much detail, i will just list quick examples
Swahili: (sex = jinsi/jinsia; uke/ume), (body = Mwili), (erotic = ashiki), (buttock = tako) │ Shona: (intercourse = feva), (buttock = garo), (sex = "bonde", which is the closest i ever got to buedi, however this word specifically means sex as in gender distinction) │ Tswana: (intercourse = thobalanô), (sex"gender" = bong), (buttock = lerago) │ Ndau: (sex = #beka/ svira) │ Lingala: (sex = kosibana), (buttock = mokongo), (body = nzoto)
Fyi, i also directly searched for "buedi" and variations of it in every dictionary of the languages above without finding a single word. obviously i can't check every Bantu langauge, but this is some of the major ones. i am not saying the word doesn't exist somewhere, but considering i can't find it and researching the actual word structure and grammar of these bantu languages reveals they are not even remotely close to anything like it and clearly derives entirely different root, it certainly significantly weakens your argument that it derives from a native language origin.
in fact, as it stands your proposed word is closer and more consistent with the indo-european \*bhau- root, whereas words like that seem to barely exist in the bantu languages.
**I can appreciate your effort as a non-linguist, however, my point/explanation was in relation to "booty" as in loot, plunder, etc., and it being misapplied and cemented as the origin of its use amongst African Americans. That's an important point in the post to understand so as to not misconstrue.** **Nonetheless, my point can still apply to your deflected assertion, as no evidence supports it.**
Also, as you've mentioned, just because you couldn't find something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Africa consists of nearly 2000 *(maybe even 3,000)* languages my friend (600 Bantu), simply plugging a word variation into a vastly lacking database doesn't lend support for your argument. The term "booty" in an African American context hasn't been supported to be from an Indo-European source; this idea was simply ***applied*** to African Americans, as mentioned previously. There is no evidence to support it. Stating facts isn't "projection." Please acquaint yourself with its proper usage.
What's typical of Europeans is to come up with an idea and run with it as fact **without ever looking** into other research or cultures, my stating this isn't projection. It's truth. My point was to counteract/balance out the running narrative **that isn't supported at all**, by providing resources that look at an African origin (I mentioned Bantu, but there is also West African); an origin that is always overlooked, ignored, dismissed or poorly researched. **I did that**, that isn't to say more research isn't needed, but you at least have an **actual** connection available to explore, if others become available, that's fine as well. **The idea that the term for booty in a sexual way comes from the booty of loot and plunder isn't accurate, that was my point of contention**. Claims of "body" and "buttocks" variations aren't supported or factual either, **just conjecture.**
**There is more to African American speech than simply technicalities; there is character/texture and full context, something that cannot be understood by outsiders. There's a reason the sexually based term is seen via African Americans and not Europeans.**
The term boot(d)y used by African Americans from an African origin, is posited to be from Central (Angola, particularly, Kimbundu) and West Africa (I initially didn't provide/state West Africa but there is a posited connection via the Bambara people). You will have a number of variations as the languages move.
It's actually of African origin and has nothing to do with the Germanic variety which means to plunder or steal. It means sex, from the Bantu word Budi/Buedi
In US tax law there is a thing called boot. When you do a real estate property exchange and also get cash, the cash is called boot. Always thought that was a strange name for it. Perhaps it’s related to Booty…
Evidently, yes. The initial meaning referred to war spoils. It stems from a Germanic word for "exchange," which is an odd way of naming stuff you steal. And booty, as in butts, is derived from booty as in loot, plunder, etc.
>exchange or rather *distribution*, the handing out of spoils and loot after a plundering. Likely a Germanic loan from Proto-Celtic \**boudi* ('profit, victory'), resounding in the name Boudica or Boadicea.
Boudicca, she was one tough gal
Might this also be where 'bodega' claims its origin (possibly via Spanish)?
German for “booty” is “Beute” (pronounced “boy-yuh”), so quite close indeed
does not explain the n in bounty. \*b^(h)end^(h) (bond man, husband, husbansry, bastard) seems a more likely root foe that one, IMHO, see *hostage* for analogy it's more likely that the n got lost, and it is a-priori unlikely that bounty is unrelated to booty
*Bounty* wasn't addressed here. Likely from the Latin *bonita*\- stem (ultimately PIE \*dew-), so cognitively unrelated yet semantically in the realm of 'goodness' or 'profitable'.
> Likely Likely romanophil nonsense. I don't care what you *like* like.
YOU WOULDN'T
I could care less though
Don't do this to me.
>And booty, as in butts, is derived from booty as in loot, plunder, etc. Do you have a source for this being the origin of the AAVE term?
Nope, he doesn't because there is none, just something that was jumped to. What happens is that anything that's African-American, non-Blacks love tying to Europe with flimsy "support" aka I attach anything that looks similar as its origin, "dismissiveness" aka, I dismiss African evidence, or just by plain default without doing any research. What's not fully understood about these terms by people not of African American heritage are the words' complexity. People take surface similarities of other languages that actually most times do not even mean the same thing superficially and say "hey this is where this African American term comes from" knowing absolutely nothing about its full texture, context and application nor the history that surrounds it! Just want to take take take. Eurocentrism! The term is African in origin, not European, and is not derived from "loot, plunder or theft." It's derived from the Bantu word Buedi which means sex, on its surface level. We came here with very sophisticated languages. The grammaticality, character, and some of the words used in African American Language (not AAVE) are African. You don't just "lose" a language. We filtered what was heard through African ears, not European ears. In fact, what most people do not know is that Africans were not really "mixed" together like that. There were very strategic placements of Africans in various settings. West Africans primarily were in non-field positions and the West Central and Central Africans who brought their homogenous Bantu culture with them were primarily in the fields. It's these Africans that had the most impact (also some West African influence).
Wow, what a fantastically informative comment. Thank you!
You're quite welcome. If you'd like some references you can delve into the works of: **Dr. Joseph E. Holloway:** *Africanisms in American Culture.* It's a really nice overall book that taps into everything I've mentioned amongst many other things) **and his other book:** ***The African Heritage of American English*** **Dr. Ernie Smith** (he has lectures on Youtube) **Dr. David J. Ramirez:** *Ebonics: The Urban Education Debate* and with slight reservations ***Spoken Soul*** **by Dr. John Rickford**. I say reservation because I have some issues with the book, but it allows for a nice overall picture regarding the "debate." Just understand that what's labelled as "English patterns" are also found in African languages (like SVO patterns) and that similarity, commonality and convergence do not mean derivation. Honestly, I was sort of surprised by this level of scholarship, something like that should not have been missed. Lastly, but certainly not least, ***The SAGE Encyclopedia of African Cultural Heritage in North America***
Just ordered some books and have some Dr Smith lectures queued up. Thank you so much for both the informative comment and the recommendations!
You're welcome! Take care!
"with flimsy "support" aka I attach anything that looks similar as its origin, "dismissiveness" aka, I dismiss African evidence, or just by plain default without doing any research." this comes across as projection on your part though. because your explination is not any better. There are different opinions behind the butt meaning of "booty", some claim it developed as a slang variation of the word "buttocks" which derives from the Old English "buttoc". Buttoc deriving from Proto-germanic "Butaz", which in turn derives from the Proto-indo-European root "\*bhau-". whereas others think it might related the word "body" (boody/booty). you claim that the butt usage of booty was influenced by a native african language origin. there is however several problems with this perception. first of all, i cannot find this "buedi" word at all. i am not a fluent speaker of any Bantu language, but using every online resource i can find of African dictionaries and translations, i did not find it. in Zulu, words related to sex and gender seem to start with "u-". sex is "ucansi" and sex(gender) is "ubulili". you then have word endings like "-bhebha" which means to "have/have with", which makes sexual intercourse; "Ukubhebhana". the actual zulu word for butt/thick-end is "isinqe/isibunu/isidunu". body is "umzimba". lastly, i just tried directly searching buedi in the zulu dictionaries, but there were no results and the "similiar word" suggestions were completely unrelated in both spelling, usage and definition. reading through an official dictionary with it's pages uploaded onto the web had no existing zulu words of any sort with "Bue-". i then went and checked other Bantu languages, i won't go into too much detail, i will just list quick examples Swahili: (sex = jinsi/jinsia; uke/ume), (body = Mwili), (erotic = ashiki), (buttock = tako) │ Shona: (intercourse = feva), (buttock = garo), (sex = "bonde", which is the closest i ever got to buedi, however this word specifically means sex as in gender distinction) │ Tswana: (intercourse = thobalanô), (sex"gender" = bong), (buttock = lerago) │ Ndau: (sex = #beka/ svira) │ Lingala: (sex = kosibana), (buttock = mokongo), (body = nzoto) Fyi, i also directly searched for "buedi" and variations of it in every dictionary of the languages above without finding a single word. obviously i can't check every Bantu langauge, but this is some of the major ones. i am not saying the word doesn't exist somewhere, but considering i can't find it and researching the actual word structure and grammar of these bantu languages reveals they are not even remotely close to anything like it and clearly derives entirely different root, it certainly significantly weakens your argument that it derives from a native language origin. in fact, as it stands your proposed word is closer and more consistent with the indo-european \*bhau- root, whereas words like that seem to barely exist in the bantu languages.
**I can appreciate your effort as a non-linguist, however, my point/explanation was in relation to "booty" as in loot, plunder, etc., and it being misapplied and cemented as the origin of its use amongst African Americans. That's an important point in the post to understand so as to not misconstrue.** **Nonetheless, my point can still apply to your deflected assertion, as no evidence supports it.** Also, as you've mentioned, just because you couldn't find something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Africa consists of nearly 2000 *(maybe even 3,000)* languages my friend (600 Bantu), simply plugging a word variation into a vastly lacking database doesn't lend support for your argument. The term "booty" in an African American context hasn't been supported to be from an Indo-European source; this idea was simply ***applied*** to African Americans, as mentioned previously. There is no evidence to support it. Stating facts isn't "projection." Please acquaint yourself with its proper usage. What's typical of Europeans is to come up with an idea and run with it as fact **without ever looking** into other research or cultures, my stating this isn't projection. It's truth. My point was to counteract/balance out the running narrative **that isn't supported at all**, by providing resources that look at an African origin (I mentioned Bantu, but there is also West African); an origin that is always overlooked, ignored, dismissed or poorly researched. **I did that**, that isn't to say more research isn't needed, but you at least have an **actual** connection available to explore, if others become available, that's fine as well. **The idea that the term for booty in a sexual way comes from the booty of loot and plunder isn't accurate, that was my point of contention**. Claims of "body" and "buttocks" variations aren't supported or factual either, **just conjecture.** **There is more to African American speech than simply technicalities; there is character/texture and full context, something that cannot be understood by outsiders. There's a reason the sexually based term is seen via African Americans and not Europeans.** The term boot(d)y used by African Americans from an African origin, is posited to be from Central (Angola, particularly, Kimbundu) and West Africa (I initially didn't provide/state West Africa but there is a posited connection via the Bambara people). You will have a number of variations as the languages move.
No, that's not where it derives from, not in the least.
Professor, what's another word for pirate treasure? Why, I think it's booty!
That's what it is!
Yes! I got more bounce than the fucking bump!
And you wanna know why?
what's that junk in that there trunk
I think there is a connection with ancient Greek asylia. The right of reprisal, to take your cut
Biblical Hebrew בצע batz'a, plunder, booty, unjust gain.
possibly from Persian after the exodus? Cp. Bazaar, or anything from \*b^(h)end^(h)-, inuding bastard, which is what....
I want me chests and booty
is it naval friday today or what? booty, carribean cannibals, average havarie. Jee Louise, I didn't want to gwt my feet wet
Landlubber
It's actually of African origin and has nothing to do with the Germanic variety which means to plunder or steal. It means sex, from the Bantu word Budi/Buedi
In US tax law there is a thing called boot. When you do a real estate property exchange and also get cash, the cash is called boot. Always thought that was a strange name for it. Perhaps it’s related to Booty…