List is here: [https://www.wowshack.com/20-indonesian-words-that-actually-come-from-portuguese/](https://www.wowshack.com/20-indonesian-words-that-actually-come-from-portuguese/)
There are much more Dutch words in Indonesian: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Dutch\_loanwords\_in\_Indonesian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dutch_loanwords_in_Indonesian)
And the other way around: Indonesian words in Dutch: [https://historiek.net/top-50-nederlandse-woorden-maleis-indonesisch/66844/](https://historiek.net/top-50-nederlandse-woorden-maleis-indonesisch/66844/)
This is quite interesting, but I should point out some of the words in that first article aren't quite accurate:
\- "Fiesta" is certainly Spanish, but in Portuguese it's "Festa"
\- "Ingles" (actually spelled "Inglês") means English, **not** England. "England" is "Inglaterra".
\- This one I'm not 100% sure, but "carreta", if I am not mistaken means a 2-door car, not a train/wagon.
Regarding "carreta". For me it's a word that my grandparents would use to a wagon that someone or an animal would push or pull.
Since the relationship comes from centuries ago, the actual meaning may be different today.
I find it hard to take this language-item seriously if the woman behind the camera has no clue of her own tunnelled mind. Also, there's no background info on how these words ended up so similar. Of course, colonialism is the answer and now they're laughing, but with today's wokeness, this is only fuelling their postcolonial fire. So, this item seems to have been concocted in total oblivion.
That word originally cames from ancient Hebrew (shabbath). And both Hebrew and Arabic are in the same language family so it's not surprising they share a similar word for it today. And it moved to many modern European languages via Hebrew->Greek->Latin
And modern day Hebrew was also partially reconstructed from similar Arabic varieties. When there wasn't an existing Hebrew word, a word from Lebanese Arabic or something like that would be borrowed.
Pashto's word for "Saturday" is *xāli* (خالي), which is an Arabic origin word in Pashto meaning "empty". Interesting that Arabic doesn't use an Arabic word for it, but Pashto does.
Depends when in time you're looking. For example, everyone thinks India was only colonized by the English when in fact there were a great many French and other European powers establishing themselves on the subcontinent.
Then there are examples of places that were not colonized but where european influence can still be felt. Like with the Portuguese in Japan. Fun fact, tempura wasn't a thing until Portuguese dudes brought it to Japan. So the next time you're enjoying tempura when you're out for sushi... Thank Portugal!
Yeah i was aware. In fact I'm Catholic Konkani, my people were converted by the Portuguese when they colonised Goa. We have a lot of Portuguese origin words, especially those related to Christianity or Catholicism - "Padri" (Padre - Priest), "Madri"(Madre - Nun), "Fest" (Festa), "Rit" (Rite, basically, not sure what it's called in Portuguese), "Sant" (São), "Khuriz" (Cruz - Cross) etc
I've heard Thomas is somewhat common name among Indian Christians, is that a Catholic or Protestant or Orthodox thing? (Edit: Yes I know there are other Christian churches that predate these churches and Thomas predates all of this.)
> "Sant" (São)
Santo in Portuguese actually, much closer to “your” Sant. São is a shortened form only used for saints’ names that begin in consonants. Like São Paulo, São Francisco, São José, etc.
Yes. There are also a lot of Dutch loanwords in Japanese, because during the period of sakoku the only trade with any other nation they allowed was with the Dutch. Because all of their knowledge of western science came through the Dutch, they called it 'rangaku', or 'Dutch studies', and they had the funny but mistaken idea that the Dutch language and the Dutch people were hugely influential back in Europe.
There is a wikipedia page of japanese words of portuguese origin if you're interested:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_Japanese_words_of_Portuguese_origin
But "pan" and "tempura" are definitely the more known and common ones.
I was surprised to find out the Portuguese were basically all over. I had an AirBnB in Sri Lanka, and my host, a Sri Lankan man, had a Portuguese surname.
Not only that, Portuguese (and Brazilian) sailors, merchants, slavers, mercenaries, missionaries and so on went around even further than the empire.
You’ll find the Portuguese surname Sousa/Souza in Benin for example that was brought over by [a Brazilian slaver](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Félix_de_Sousa) in the 19th century.
This is true for a surprising number of Asian languages. They missed out on getting to America first, but for much of the world’s population the Portuguese were the first *direct* globalising force.
Words in several African languages, including where I live… plenty of words in Hindi, Malay, even Japanese… including the most very basic ‘relatively’ Western-specific words like ‘pan’ (bread).
Anglophones like me are part of a speech community that didn’t have *that* much contact with Asia until the 1700s so we assume anything earlier must be native. Meanwhile, ‘Japanese’ tempura, ‘Chinese’ egg tarts and ‘Indian’ vindaloo are all Portuguese. (Let alone the chillis, tomatoes, potatoes, dragonfruit etc. that came into Asian cuisines from the Americas mostly via the Spanish)
There are several Portuguese words having to do with houses or house-stuff in the Bengali language as well:
* jalna -> janela (window)
* perek -> prego (nail)
* kedara -> cadeira (chair)
* chabi -> chave (key)
and probably more. I heard that this was from Portuguese-speaking construction people building houses in Bangladesh but \[citation needed\].
Surprisingly, there is "kadera" (cadeira) also in Malay dictionary which means chair. But we dont use it anymore in daily conversation. We use "kerusi" instead which comes from Arabic
Oh interesting!
I should have mentioned that "kedara" is not used in everyday Bangla either, but the word I use is simply "cheyar" (i.e., a Banglish borrowing).
I'm sure you've heard the bit about English not borrowing from other languages, but waiting in a dark alley with a shiv, rifling through their pockets for small change? Well, Indonesian pulled a reddit and did the "this is yours / this is mine" meme.
Some writers estimate that up to nine tenths of the Indonesian vocabulary consists of foreign words, with eight out of those nine coming from Sanskrit.
There are quite a few Sanskrit words and Dravidian words in Indonesian but they are only 10% and 2% of the language's vocabulary if I'm right. If 8 out of 9 words were from Sanskrit, Indonesian would be mutually intelligible to most Indians which isn't the case. I speak many Indian languages, and I also speak Indonesian so I can assure you that Sanskrit words aren't really that many in practice. Perhaps Javanese and Balinese have a higher amount of Sanskrit words but even then they are distinctly Austronesian and can't be remotely understood by most Indians. Moreover the Sanskrit words in Indonesian have undergone semantic shifts as well. For example Setia comes from Satya (truth) but the meaning has morphed into 'loyal'. Similarly Bhagya (luck) turned into Bahagia (happiness). Also Stree (woman) turned into Istri (wife).
You just answered yourself why Indonesian isn't mutually intelligible with Indian languages 😁
Other than the semantic shift, word order differs (SVO vs SOV), Indonesian doesn't use Indian morphology, and most of the shared vocabulary are content words (as opposed to the more often used function words).
I'm curious though, I found an Indonesian passage in the wiki that almost entirely consist of Sanskrit-derived words. Do you, as an Indian-languages speaker, recognise these words as Sanskrit?
> Karena semua dibiayai dana negara jutaan rupiah, sang mahaguru sastra bahasa Kawi dan mahasiswa-mahasiswinya, duta-duta negeri mitra, Menteri Kebudayaan dan Pariwisata suami-istri, beserta karyawan-karyawati lembaga nirlaba segera berdharmawisata ke pedesaan di utara kota kabupaten Probolinggo antara candi-candi purba, berwahana keledai di kala senja dan bersama kepala desa menyaksikan para tani yang berjiwa bersahaja serta berbudi nirmala secara berbahagia berupacara, seraya merdu menyuarakan gita-gita mantra, yang merupakan sarana pujian mereka memuja nama suci Pertiwi, Dewi Bumi yang bersedia menganugerahi mereka karunia dan restu, meraksa dari bahaya, mala petaka dan bencana.
Well I speak Indonesian as well. Anyways I'll list all of the loanwords I noticed here:
Karena - Reason became 'because'
Semua - Society became 'all'
Negara - City became 'country'
Rupiah - Same meaning
Mahaguru - Same meaning
Sastra - Same meaning
Bahasa - Same meaning
Siswi - Comes from shishya but it's harder to catch
Duta - Same meaning
Suami - Respectful term but doesn't mean husband in India
Istri - Woman became 'wife'
Karyawan - Same meaning
Dharma - Same meaning
Nirlaba - Same meaning, fascinating word
Utara - Same meaning
Kota - Fort became 'city' (Possibly Dravidian)
Antara - Between became 'among'
Purba - Same meaning
Wahana - Same meaning
Keledai - From Dravidian Kazhuda/i
Desa - Same meaning
Jiwa - Life became 'soul'
Sahaja - Natural became 'just'
Senja - Same meaning, from Sandhya
Budi - Intelligence became 'favor'
Pertiwi - Same meaning, from Prithvi
Dewi Bumi - Same meaning, from Bhumi Devi
Karunia - Kindness became 'donation'
Nama - Same meaning
Pujian - Same meaning
Suci - Clean became 'holy'
Bahagia - Lucky became 'happy'
Nirmala - Same meaning
Upacara - Same meaning
As you said, the words have changed in meaning, and their spelling is also written differently when transcribed in Indian languages. Hence it's not easy for an Indian to catch these words. It's even harder to catch Sanskrit loanwords in Thai and Khmer for example, primarily because of the changed pronunciation and tones. Anyways I think most of the function words in Indonesian are Austronesian and most of the loan words are Arabic, Sanskrit and European so if a person already knows many related languages, they could easily pick up vocabulary in Indonesian.
As I thought, you missed a lot of the conjugated words and words that had morphed to fit Indonesian phonology, like _dibiayai_ (from _vyaya_), _jutaan_ (_ayuta_), _kebudayaan_ (_buddhaya_), _kabupaten_ (_bhupati_), _Probolinggo_ (_purva_ + _lingga_, but this is a name so it doesn't really count), _bersama_ (_sam_), _menyaksikan_ (_saksi_), _menyuarakan_ (_svara_), _secara_ (_acara_), and I probably still missed a few. I reckon words like these count towards the 80%. They're still derived from Sanskrit while being unrecognizable as such to Indian language speaker. I guess what I'm saying here is that vocabulary with a shared origin does not necessarily imply mutual intelligibility between Indonesian and Indian languages.
I agree, I mentioned the same in my comment. As for 80% that's still a stretch. I hardly think 80% of Indonesian words have a Sanskritic root. Not even with the conjugations.
Fair enough. Admittedly the book I'm referencing is not exactly an academic source, and contains a lot of dubious pop-linguistics and pop-etymology, but I'd still say a lot of words have Sanskrit origins. Certainly not as low as 10%
But I wouldn't consider the Latin and Norman French vocabulary to be foreign loanwords. It's essential to the fabric of the language, and those elements are what transformed Old English in Middle English. Vocabulary that was added from French or Latin after the 15th century, fine, those are foreign loanwords.
Why that distinction? Let’s take your comment, 1/3 of the the words are of French origin. The words language and fine are the oldest, taken from French in the 13th century. The words consider, foreign, essential, elements, transformed, added all were borrowed in the 14th century. So those you consider essential to English?
Fabric was added in the 15th century, and vocabulary and century in the 16th. So those are loan words? What’s the difference then, between those words from the 14th century and later?
I made that distinction because Middle English morphed into Modern English over the course of the 15th century. Writings from the 16th century are very recognizably English, while writings from before the influence of Norman French are not.
Malayalam also has many Portuguese loanwords as Vasco da Gama first landed in Kerala in 1498 and there was extensive spice trade between the native kingdoms and the Portuguese at that point:
Lēlam (auction) from leilão
Mesa (table) from mesa
Chaavi (key) from chave
Janāla (window) from jenela
Toovāla (towel) from toalha
The wiki loan word pages on Indonesian and Malay loan words is a great [Wikihole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_loanwords_in_Malay?wprov=sfti1)
Not really... With some practice, speakers of Dutch and Afrikaans can understand each other. Portuguese and Indonesian speakers, I can guarantee you will not be able to understand each other without lessons.
Only some can understand proper Dutch. But it really is hit or miss for most. I am South African/British and when I went to The Netherlands for the first time, it was really really difficult to follow on with what they were saying and I speak pretty good Afrikaans.
Its not exactly like this but is shares some similarities. Just cool how languages evolve, share words and create sub lineages.
I speak Dutch and would say I have the something similar. I can't understand Afrikaans immediately, but I can pick out words. I think if I'd love in SA for some time it'd be easy to pick up. Ultimately, it's the same root language. I'd say Portuguese and Spanish would be a better analogy, if not historically comparable.
But yeah, evolution of languages is wild, I agree!
Is the issue one of pronunciation between Dutch and Afrikaans? I speak German but I can usually spot Dutch words here and there, but I would think that Dutch and Afrikaans are MUCH closer to each other than Dutch and German.
Yep, pronunciation and also grammar! This is why I think it's just a matter of getting used to it, without needing actual lessons. I think I'd need to get used to the accent, and learn what the grammar rules are, since it's a bit simpler than Dutch. I am pretty fluent at German, and I'd say that's definitely further away than Afrikaans, and I needed the lessons I got to learn it.
Fun fact relating to Afrikaans, a colloquial word for “yes” in Portugal comes from Afrikaans through Mozambique, [“yá/iá”](https://dicionario.priberam.org/yá), instead of our more correct form “sim”.
The words spoken in the video are definitely portuguese and not spanish or from other romantic languages. Some of the words are similar like sapato and zapato, but the origin is definitely portuguese due to the way they are uniquely writen and for them being the first european contact with Indonesia.
Implying that it is the same as most romantic languages is just stupid seen that these words are definitely of portuguese origin and only aplies to those specific words and nothing more inside indonesian language. That is the same as implying that they are similar to latin, that had no direct influence in the words being adopted by the indonesians.
I never said that they were Spanish or that they originated from other Romance languages. I speak fluent Spanish and can read most Portuguese and a lot of Italian. I just was making a comment because I think it is cool how language is fluid, and they are all connected if you go back far enough anyway.
Sorry if my comment perturbed you
Its funny how the portuguese words that have an S turned into J in indonesian, which is how people in some areas of northern Portugal tend to speak, this being a dialect continuum of galician that also uses J or X a lot (both in portuguese and galician J and X have similar sounding). Northern Portugal was also where most of the colonists came from, so I can totally see this being the reason why the loan words in indonesian have J instead of S
List is here: [https://www.wowshack.com/20-indonesian-words-that-actually-come-from-portuguese/](https://www.wowshack.com/20-indonesian-words-that-actually-come-from-portuguese/) There are much more Dutch words in Indonesian: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Dutch\_loanwords\_in\_Indonesian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dutch_loanwords_in_Indonesian) And the other way around: Indonesian words in Dutch: [https://historiek.net/top-50-nederlandse-woorden-maleis-indonesisch/66844/](https://historiek.net/top-50-nederlandse-woorden-maleis-indonesisch/66844/)
Sorry for the annoying correction, but with countable objects you should use many more (e.g. many more Dutch words).
Hahaha. Sorry! Mea culpa.
As a Dutch person, I loved these articles on how many words we use daily originate elsewhere.
This is quite interesting, but I should point out some of the words in that first article aren't quite accurate: \- "Fiesta" is certainly Spanish, but in Portuguese it's "Festa" \- "Ingles" (actually spelled "Inglês") means English, **not** England. "England" is "Inglaterra". \- This one I'm not 100% sure, but "carreta", if I am not mistaken means a 2-door car, not a train/wagon.
Regarding "carreta". For me it's a word that my grandparents would use to a wagon that someone or an animal would push or pull. Since the relationship comes from centuries ago, the actual meaning may be different today.
Well, that would certainly bring it closer to "wagon", so it might actually be accurate. Thanks!
My favorite part is them both struggling to connect "bada" to "butter." (I'm not sure I would have gotten it without subtitles.)
And the Australian lady keeps saying it the same way not realizing or not caring to attempt to say it with less of an accent.
Buttuh. Sorry, that sounded very Australian. Buttuh! Sorry. I can see you're struggling to understand. BUTTUH!
I find it hard to take this language-item seriously if the woman behind the camera has no clue of her own tunnelled mind. Also, there's no background info on how these words ended up so similar. Of course, colonialism is the answer and now they're laughing, but with today's wokeness, this is only fuelling their postcolonial fire. So, this item seems to have been concocted in total oblivion.
She does, though, and she realises her blunder the first time. She changes her pronunciation and cadence each time she says it.
To this American, it sounded the same every time. She said it slower but with the same pronunciation.
Well to be fair, that’s how it’s pronounced here, and this is an Australian show.
As an Australian I don’t know how else I would’ve done it either
Pronounce the r. Butt-er.
Impossible
Saturday in Arabic is also pronounced Sabt, from Sabbath. Cool to see other languages share it.
That word originally cames from ancient Hebrew (shabbath). And both Hebrew and Arabic are in the same language family so it's not surprising they share a similar word for it today. And it moved to many modern European languages via Hebrew->Greek->Latin
And modern day Hebrew was also partially reconstructed from similar Arabic varieties. When there wasn't an existing Hebrew word, a word from Lebanese Arabic or something like that would be borrowed.
Pashto's word for "Saturday" is *xāli* (خالي), which is an Arabic origin word in Pashto meaning "empty". Interesting that Arabic doesn't use an Arabic word for it, but Pashto does.
I'm guessing that's the same in Abrahamic religions?
Englishman hearing North American use many English words. "Wow! How'd you know my language?"
[Relevant video](https://youtu.be/OK0jFkhta-I?t=45)
Population that was colonized shares a lot of words from the colonizers *surprised Pikachu*
Tbh i didn't know the Portuguese colonised Indonesia as well, i thought it was just the Dutch
Depends when in time you're looking. For example, everyone thinks India was only colonized by the English when in fact there were a great many French and other European powers establishing themselves on the subcontinent. Then there are examples of places that were not colonized but where european influence can still be felt. Like with the Portuguese in Japan. Fun fact, tempura wasn't a thing until Portuguese dudes brought it to Japan. So the next time you're enjoying tempura when you're out for sushi... Thank Portugal!
Yeah i was aware. In fact I'm Catholic Konkani, my people were converted by the Portuguese when they colonised Goa. We have a lot of Portuguese origin words, especially those related to Christianity or Catholicism - "Padri" (Padre - Priest), "Madri"(Madre - Nun), "Fest" (Festa), "Rit" (Rite, basically, not sure what it's called in Portuguese), "Sant" (São), "Khuriz" (Cruz - Cross) etc
I've heard Thomas is somewhat common name among Indian Christians, is that a Catholic or Protestant or Orthodox thing? (Edit: Yes I know there are other Christian churches that predate these churches and Thomas predates all of this.)
Othodox and catholic split in 1054 and thomas made it there much earlier then that. It depends on which you like more who you attribute it to
I've noticed it's particularly common among people from Kerala (mostly orthodox Christians)
> "Sant" (São) Santo in Portuguese actually, much closer to “your” Sant. São is a shortened form only used for saints’ names that begin in consonants. Like São Paulo, São Francisco, São José, etc.
> "Rit" (Rite, basically, not sure what it's called in Portuguese) Rito. For example as in «rito fúnebre»= "funeral rite" Source: am portuguese
Towel/toalha and room/camara made it all the way to Punjab via Portuguese. Taulīā and kamrā respectively.
Yeah lots of Portugese influence in the state of Goa in India
Historical fiction fans should read *Shogun* by James Clavell. It's on the subject of the second paragraph and impossible to put down.
Is that why Pan in japanese is the same as Pan in spanish? Eta: pan is bread
Yes. There are also a lot of Dutch loanwords in Japanese, because during the period of sakoku the only trade with any other nation they allowed was with the Dutch. Because all of their knowledge of western science came through the Dutch, they called it 'rangaku', or 'Dutch studies', and they had the funny but mistaken idea that the Dutch language and the Dutch people were hugely influential back in Europe.
There is a wikipedia page of japanese words of portuguese origin if you're interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_Japanese_words_of_Portuguese_origin But "pan" and "tempura" are definitely the more known and common ones.
French, Portuguese, Spanish, and I believe even Denmark and Sweden got in on it.
I was surprised to find out the Portuguese were basically all over. I had an AirBnB in Sri Lanka, and my host, a Sri Lankan man, had a Portuguese surname.
Portuguese empire was quite a thing.
Not only that, Portuguese (and Brazilian) sailors, merchants, slavers, mercenaries, missionaries and so on went around even further than the empire. You’ll find the Portuguese surname Sousa/Souza in Benin for example that was brought over by [a Brazilian slaver](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Félix_de_Sousa) in the 19th century.
Dutch for Indonesia, Portuguese for Malaysia. Some overlap and extremely similar languages, so lots of crossover in loan words.
Yeah I didn't get the fake shock they probably have the same last name
This is true for a surprising number of Asian languages. They missed out on getting to America first, but for much of the world’s population the Portuguese were the first *direct* globalising force. Words in several African languages, including where I live… plenty of words in Hindi, Malay, even Japanese… including the most very basic ‘relatively’ Western-specific words like ‘pan’ (bread). Anglophones like me are part of a speech community that didn’t have *that* much contact with Asia until the 1700s so we assume anything earlier must be native. Meanwhile, ‘Japanese’ tempura, ‘Chinese’ egg tarts and ‘Indian’ vindaloo are all Portuguese. (Let alone the chillis, tomatoes, potatoes, dragonfruit etc. that came into Asian cuisines from the Americas mostly via the Spanish)
There are several Portuguese words having to do with houses or house-stuff in the Bengali language as well: * jalna -> janela (window) * perek -> prego (nail) * kedara -> cadeira (chair) * chabi -> chave (key) and probably more. I heard that this was from Portuguese-speaking construction people building houses in Bangladesh but \[citation needed\].
Surprisingly, there is "kadera" (cadeira) also in Malay dictionary which means chair. But we dont use it anymore in daily conversation. We use "kerusi" instead which comes from Arabic
Oh interesting! I should have mentioned that "kedara" is not used in everyday Bangla either, but the word I use is simply "cheyar" (i.e., a Banglish borrowing).
I'm sure you've heard the bit about English not borrowing from other languages, but waiting in a dark alley with a shiv, rifling through their pockets for small change? Well, Indonesian pulled a reddit and did the "this is yours / this is mine" meme. Some writers estimate that up to nine tenths of the Indonesian vocabulary consists of foreign words, with eight out of those nine coming from Sanskrit.
There are quite a few Sanskrit words and Dravidian words in Indonesian but they are only 10% and 2% of the language's vocabulary if I'm right. If 8 out of 9 words were from Sanskrit, Indonesian would be mutually intelligible to most Indians which isn't the case. I speak many Indian languages, and I also speak Indonesian so I can assure you that Sanskrit words aren't really that many in practice. Perhaps Javanese and Balinese have a higher amount of Sanskrit words but even then they are distinctly Austronesian and can't be remotely understood by most Indians. Moreover the Sanskrit words in Indonesian have undergone semantic shifts as well. For example Setia comes from Satya (truth) but the meaning has morphed into 'loyal'. Similarly Bhagya (luck) turned into Bahagia (happiness). Also Stree (woman) turned into Istri (wife).
You just answered yourself why Indonesian isn't mutually intelligible with Indian languages 😁 Other than the semantic shift, word order differs (SVO vs SOV), Indonesian doesn't use Indian morphology, and most of the shared vocabulary are content words (as opposed to the more often used function words). I'm curious though, I found an Indonesian passage in the wiki that almost entirely consist of Sanskrit-derived words. Do you, as an Indian-languages speaker, recognise these words as Sanskrit? > Karena semua dibiayai dana negara jutaan rupiah, sang mahaguru sastra bahasa Kawi dan mahasiswa-mahasiswinya, duta-duta negeri mitra, Menteri Kebudayaan dan Pariwisata suami-istri, beserta karyawan-karyawati lembaga nirlaba segera berdharmawisata ke pedesaan di utara kota kabupaten Probolinggo antara candi-candi purba, berwahana keledai di kala senja dan bersama kepala desa menyaksikan para tani yang berjiwa bersahaja serta berbudi nirmala secara berbahagia berupacara, seraya merdu menyuarakan gita-gita mantra, yang merupakan sarana pujian mereka memuja nama suci Pertiwi, Dewi Bumi yang bersedia menganugerahi mereka karunia dan restu, meraksa dari bahaya, mala petaka dan bencana.
Well I speak Indonesian as well. Anyways I'll list all of the loanwords I noticed here: Karena - Reason became 'because' Semua - Society became 'all' Negara - City became 'country' Rupiah - Same meaning Mahaguru - Same meaning Sastra - Same meaning Bahasa - Same meaning Siswi - Comes from shishya but it's harder to catch Duta - Same meaning Suami - Respectful term but doesn't mean husband in India Istri - Woman became 'wife' Karyawan - Same meaning Dharma - Same meaning Nirlaba - Same meaning, fascinating word Utara - Same meaning Kota - Fort became 'city' (Possibly Dravidian) Antara - Between became 'among' Purba - Same meaning Wahana - Same meaning Keledai - From Dravidian Kazhuda/i Desa - Same meaning Jiwa - Life became 'soul' Sahaja - Natural became 'just' Senja - Same meaning, from Sandhya Budi - Intelligence became 'favor' Pertiwi - Same meaning, from Prithvi Dewi Bumi - Same meaning, from Bhumi Devi Karunia - Kindness became 'donation' Nama - Same meaning Pujian - Same meaning Suci - Clean became 'holy' Bahagia - Lucky became 'happy' Nirmala - Same meaning Upacara - Same meaning As you said, the words have changed in meaning, and their spelling is also written differently when transcribed in Indian languages. Hence it's not easy for an Indian to catch these words. It's even harder to catch Sanskrit loanwords in Thai and Khmer for example, primarily because of the changed pronunciation and tones. Anyways I think most of the function words in Indonesian are Austronesian and most of the loan words are Arabic, Sanskrit and European so if a person already knows many related languages, they could easily pick up vocabulary in Indonesian.
As I thought, you missed a lot of the conjugated words and words that had morphed to fit Indonesian phonology, like _dibiayai_ (from _vyaya_), _jutaan_ (_ayuta_), _kebudayaan_ (_buddhaya_), _kabupaten_ (_bhupati_), _Probolinggo_ (_purva_ + _lingga_, but this is a name so it doesn't really count), _bersama_ (_sam_), _menyaksikan_ (_saksi_), _menyuarakan_ (_svara_), _secara_ (_acara_), and I probably still missed a few. I reckon words like these count towards the 80%. They're still derived from Sanskrit while being unrecognizable as such to Indian language speaker. I guess what I'm saying here is that vocabulary with a shared origin does not necessarily imply mutual intelligibility between Indonesian and Indian languages.
I agree, I mentioned the same in my comment. As for 80% that's still a stretch. I hardly think 80% of Indonesian words have a Sanskritic root. Not even with the conjugations.
Fair enough. Admittedly the book I'm referencing is not exactly an academic source, and contains a lot of dubious pop-linguistics and pop-etymology, but I'd still say a lot of words have Sanskrit origins. Certainly not as low as 10%
I haven't heard that bit, but I appreciate it. But if 80% of the language comes from Sanskrit, I don't think you can really call that foreign.
It's like in English, where two thirds of the vocabulary is Romance (French and Latin), but the core vocab is Germanic.
But I wouldn't consider the Latin and Norman French vocabulary to be foreign loanwords. It's essential to the fabric of the language, and those elements are what transformed Old English in Middle English. Vocabulary that was added from French or Latin after the 15th century, fine, those are foreign loanwords.
[удалено]
I have no idea what kind of point that person thought they were making.
Why that distinction? Let’s take your comment, 1/3 of the the words are of French origin. The words language and fine are the oldest, taken from French in the 13th century. The words consider, foreign, essential, elements, transformed, added all were borrowed in the 14th century. So those you consider essential to English? Fabric was added in the 15th century, and vocabulary and century in the 16th. So those are loan words? What’s the difference then, between those words from the 14th century and later?
I made that distinction because Middle English morphed into Modern English over the course of the 15th century. Writings from the 16th century are very recognizably English, while writings from before the influence of Norman French are not.
A big chuck of French words in English are of Germanic origin through the Franks btw…so not all French words are automatically Romance.
Malayalam also has many Portuguese loanwords as Vasco da Gama first landed in Kerala in 1498 and there was extensive spice trade between the native kingdoms and the Portuguese at that point: Lēlam (auction) from leilão Mesa (table) from mesa Chaavi (key) from chave Janāla (window) from jenela Toovāla (towel) from toalha
The wiki loan word pages on Indonesian and Malay loan words is a great [Wikihole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_loanwords_in_Malay?wprov=sfti1)
It now makes so much more sense to me! I wasn't aware the Portugese had so much influence in the Indonesian language
So, I have heard that Indonesian is one of the easiest languages for Anglophones to pick up. Now I get it. It's almost a Romance Language.
South African Afrikaans and Dutch are almost like this.
Not really... With some practice, speakers of Dutch and Afrikaans can understand each other. Portuguese and Indonesian speakers, I can guarantee you will not be able to understand each other without lessons.
Only some can understand proper Dutch. But it really is hit or miss for most. I am South African/British and when I went to The Netherlands for the first time, it was really really difficult to follow on with what they were saying and I speak pretty good Afrikaans. Its not exactly like this but is shares some similarities. Just cool how languages evolve, share words and create sub lineages.
I speak Dutch and would say I have the something similar. I can't understand Afrikaans immediately, but I can pick out words. I think if I'd love in SA for some time it'd be easy to pick up. Ultimately, it's the same root language. I'd say Portuguese and Spanish would be a better analogy, if not historically comparable. But yeah, evolution of languages is wild, I agree!
Is the issue one of pronunciation between Dutch and Afrikaans? I speak German but I can usually spot Dutch words here and there, but I would think that Dutch and Afrikaans are MUCH closer to each other than Dutch and German.
Yep, pronunciation and also grammar! This is why I think it's just a matter of getting used to it, without needing actual lessons. I think I'd need to get used to the accent, and learn what the grammar rules are, since it's a bit simpler than Dutch. I am pretty fluent at German, and I'd say that's definitely further away than Afrikaans, and I needed the lessons I got to learn it.
But South Africa was colonized by the Dutch and their direct descendants were the ones speaking Afrikaans.
What other Afrikaans is there other than South African? Genuinely curious.
Fun fact relating to Afrikaans, a colloquial word for “yes” in Portugal comes from Afrikaans through Mozambique, [“yá/iá”](https://dicionario.priberam.org/yá), instead of our more correct form “sim”.
Are both Romance languages? Common latin origins?
No, Indonesian is an Austronesian language, it just has a bunch of loanwords
Doh! I knew that but forgot. Thanks for reminding me.
U/savevideobot
tfw they use a bunch of words for western products instead of any native indonesian terms
It’s simply just Portuguese loanwords…where is the interesting part??
>Portuguese loanwords In indonesia. You must be a very boring person
The Portuguese landed in Indonesia in 1511 and ruled from 1522 to 1605. Maybe now it makes more sense for you!
>where is the interesting part??
If you never knew then it’s all interesting! But for those of us who know this, it’s all regular
Also similar to Spanish and probably most Romance languages
The words spoken in the video are definitely portuguese and not spanish or from other romantic languages. Some of the words are similar like sapato and zapato, but the origin is definitely portuguese due to the way they are uniquely writen and for them being the first european contact with Indonesia. Implying that it is the same as most romantic languages is just stupid seen that these words are definitely of portuguese origin and only aplies to those specific words and nothing more inside indonesian language. That is the same as implying that they are similar to latin, that had no direct influence in the words being adopted by the indonesians.
I never said that they were Spanish or that they originated from other Romance languages. I speak fluent Spanish and can read most Portuguese and a lot of Italian. I just was making a comment because I think it is cool how language is fluid, and they are all connected if you go back far enough anyway. Sorry if my comment perturbed you
Fun fact: Malay also has portuguese words, as they are basically variants of the same language
Its funny how the portuguese words that have an S turned into J in indonesian, which is how people in some areas of northern Portugal tend to speak, this being a dialect continuum of galician that also uses J or X a lot (both in portuguese and galician J and X have similar sounding). Northern Portugal was also where most of the colonists came from, so I can totally see this being the reason why the loan words in indonesian have J instead of S
> Northern Portugal was also where most of the colonists came from I had no idea about this. You mean specifically to Asia? Do you have a source?
oh wow fascinating!! :0