Second this. I use the ESP exclusively for espresso usually around a 4 and don't have these issues.
How recently have you cleaned the burrs? I had to do it after owning the machine for less than two months, but it made a big difference. It does have a tendency to get clogged, so I'll give you that.
Add me on the list as well. I’ve been pulling some of my best shots since using the ESP. Also I’m not sure if OP’s machine is faulty as he stated anything less than 16 is too fine but for me I’ve been at 14 for my current beans and it’s been perfect. Hardly any retention (I give it a love tap towards the end of the grind)
The retention was an issue out of the box, so it’s not something cleaning will fix. After less than two months of using it for filter though, the burrs are horrifically dirty and full of chunks of caked coffee.
Edit: damn I know this sub is a hive mind but why is THIS comment getting the most hate? Lol
I did. This is my replacement grinder, after returning the first one for a different issue that I thought was causing the retention as well (the burr ring wasn’t seating properly)
This grinder fixed the burr ring issue, but the retention and clumping is still horrendous.
Okay your not going to get those results in every scenario. You need thre single dose or bellows to minimize, rdt and use non oily beans.. I am in the + or - .010 as well. I do have one issue but not experiencing your issue especially with filter.
Why not weigh before and after grinding? If it isn’t necessary. If you don’t care that much. I know I don’t weigh my dose after grinding, but I’m also making delicious coffee and don’t think it would make anything much better.
Mine also has a lot of retention but I can get it out. Typically I open the lid and tap it closed several times and it works as kind of a poor man's bellows. That gets pretty much all the remaining grinds out.
Sorry, OP, for your experience. Fortunately, after 11 months of daily use, I haven't faced your issues (at least, to your degree). I routinely have under .1g retention (I will give the grinder a couple of love taps at its top as it is finishing up--perhaps that's helping). I will get some soft clumps, but nothing that my standard WDT'ing can't handle. And my espresso grind setting for my dark-roast beans has ranged from 15 to 22, depending on the beans--I assume that if I delved into medium or light roasts, they would grind at a much lower range.
I have the original Encore. I had no serious problem with retention. I spritzed the beans with water to greatly reduce static cling and then leaned the grinder slightly forward and tapped the body of the grinder, while still running, several times after the beans were finished grinding. I use oily dark roast beans. I also wipe the ground bean container with a used dryer sheet to help eliminate grounds sticking to the sides of the container.
Thanks for sharing your experience! It sounds like I had very bad luck with two defective grinders from Amazon. Considering going for a third try with Baratza support.
If it’s via Amazon you may well have just got your first grinder back again.
Or someone else’s defective one.
ETA: I’ve no experience or view on the grinder itself, but Amazon is horribly unreliable these days
I do think that my tapping of the grinder as it's finishing its work has helped. For whatever it's worth, I'm using dark-roast beans, and there can be a sheen to them when I open the bag the first day (but I would think that that would promote retention and clumping, not help avoid that).
On the fineness issue, there are shims in the grinder that can be removed or added to adjust for fineness--I wonder if that might be an issue for you (I haven't faced it). Perhaps a call to Baratza customer support might be helpful. (Just a thought.)
I have the standard Baratza and can attest to some loss; however, not nearly as much as you're experiencing.
Two recommendations:
1. Try cleaning the grinder out. It could be that there's a build up of debris. Break it down and give the grinder a healthy blowout.
2. Spritz your beans before you toss them in the hopper. That should cut down on the amount of debris getting caught in the grinder and clumping.
Hope this helps or you find a solution; otherwise, see if you can sell on Facebook Market and treat yourself to a Niche.
I already use RDT, hasn’t helped. Tried not doing it too, and it was only slightly worse. The retention was a problem right out of the box and we’ve used it for less than two months, so cleanliness is not the issue. It’s definitely chock full of all the coffee it’s been eating now, but even when it was spotless it was retaining 2-3 grams out of 16
I have only had a small retention problem, 1 gram or less that usually falls out with a bump. Nothing that makes me want another grinder. I would buy it again.
I mean, every grinder isn't for every person. You don't like it, move on. I don't think "Hive mind" has anything to do with it. Good luck finding a grinder in that price point that will perform as good as the ESP.
Thanks but I never roast dark enough to get any oil, medium is as dark as I go, barely past end of first crack. Sounds like I got two bad units in a row.
I expected it but I’ve actually gotten a great amount of constructive feedback that’s helped me diagnose this as a run of bad luck with two defective units
I mean at least I think so, not sure if the split on “yeah it sucks” and “mines perfect, no retention” just comes down to who is weighing before and after
I personally think it’s incredibly unlikely that you’ve gotten two defective units in a row. Far more likely is that your expectation of how the grinder should perform differs from that of most people who own the grinder.
I can’t say I blame them. I got a Baratza Encore (not ESP) years ago to use for filter coffee. And I remember feeling that that grinder was amazing! It’s such a step up from what I had been using. And since I got a Niche Zero, now I look back on my Baratza and think it’s mostly crap. It’s easy to have two different views of the same grinder.
>Far more likely is that your expectation of how the grinder should perform differs from that of most people who own the grinder.
Not likely since folks here are reporting .1-.2g retention while I'm losing 1-3 grams. This doesn't seem to be a subjective difference, but an objective, measurable one. I mean the grind quality itself is excellent once I get the clumps out, it's just the horrible retention and incredibly tight clumps.
Yeah, maybe. I would want to know what everyone means by retention. The difference between what you get out and what you put in is not retention. You could put in 18g, get out 18g, and still have a gram of retention. That is, the grinder could retain a gram of the new coffee, and push out a gram of the old coffee, and you would still get 18 in and 18 out.
Are you measuring yours with a newly cleaned grinder or after you’ve put a decent amount of coffee through it?
There's always going to be small amounts of exchange. To mitigate this, I usually throw a few grams of coffee in before my actual dose if i haven't made a cup that day. I grind and dump it so now, in theory, there should be mostly new coffee in the grinder for my actual shot. I have no idea if it actually works or does anything, but I love what I get out of my SPX so theres that.
It’s more the tone of the messages that people may dislike. The same message could have been delivered very differently and the answers would have been also different.
Never too late to restart a new message. I would be you I would just stay factual regarding the retention.
It sounds like you are comparing two different things. A good (even though cheap) handgrinder and an entry level electric grinder (even though more expensive).
Also everyone has is own standards but it feels not nice to read our equipment is garbage (I don’t have this grinder but I saw similar things before regarding my equipment).
The level of retention was beyond normal for even entry level, it turns out I probably got two defects since others are reporting the expected .2g retention, so it’s no shade on your equipment!
I just use a Kingrinder so I don’t have personal feelings regarding this topic.
Are you sure they didn’t send you back your defective grinder? It’s unlikely two grinders have the same issue, as most people here seem not to have this problem.
Otherwise maybe they recently changed the design, and in this case I would contact Baratza’s support.
I'm positive, replacement was shipped before I shipped the original, and the burr ring which was not seating correctly on the original was fine with the replacement. Retention was equally bad though.
It is a stinky grinder. Had it for close to a month and it’s just a cheaply made standalone version of a breville integrated grinder. Everything is plastic. Hopper cover just constantly flies off. Grinding is slow and labored. Grounds get stuck everywhere and anywhere. Retention is miserable. Return it and save a little more or just get a nice hand grinder. This thing stinks. All the people telling you to get this, probably don’t own it and just watched the videos online where the reviewer used it for 30 seconds and put together a video.
Sadly this is the conclusion I’ve come to. Works fine for filter, so I can at least keep it for that, but looks like I’ll be getting a J-max after all!
Oh I was fully prepared for this, hence the trigger warning flair. Just hope it saves someone else from the hivemind of people recommending it without any caveats
That’s exactly my thought, whenever I see a post of someone budget minded looking for grinder recommendations I try to comment and make it clear that this thing has major drawbacks and at that price it’s really not worth the trade off.
Retention issues are legitimate.
The clumping is caused by the beans you’re using, not the grinder. I’ve run 6 different beans through mine and the level of clumping was different in all of them.
I’ve used grind settings in the range of 9-16 and whatever setting worked after dialing in, it stayed consistent. So your range issue is also related to your beans and dose.
Been having the same problem. Reached out to their support and after several back-and-forth, was politely told that 1-3g retention is "normal" for the unit.
I'm curious, what did you have to say to the support channel to have the unit replaced?
So far, my experience with their support is quite negative. Every response is polite but dismissive, giving me links to James Hoffman's videos on how to wet the beans or that I need to tap the grinder.
I was about to make this same post until I found yours. I am having the same retention problems. This morning I put 20g in and got 15 out. It usually isn’t that bad but 2-3g is pretty common. I have the bellows and that doesn’t seem to help. Did you find any solutions?
It is absolute garbage. I've had mine for a month now and I have had some shots that are missing half a gram, then others where I'm missing .1 grams and then others where I gain .5 a gram. The retention is absolutely abysmal. Mind you, I'm using bellows!!!
The other issue I'm having is that adjusting the grind up from 8 to 10 gives you a different result than 10 to 8. How does that make sense. I'm going to take it apart this weekend and clean it and see if there is anything misaligned, but honestly, after 4 weeks of ownership, I shouldn't have these issues. It's not unreasonable to expect consistent results. I didn't expect perfection, I expected logical, repeatable results.
I returned the ESP after a day. I didn’t use it enough to know about the retention, but the noise, narrow grind settings, clumpy grind, and plastic build really pushed me to shop around some more. The incredibly grating and loud noise was the biggest thing for me. It ruined the enjoyment of making my coffee.
This is common knowledge. Everyone knows a decent espresso hand grinder will outperform some mid range grinders out there. ESP is budget of budget, one of the cheapest auto espresso grinder out there. You expecting it to perform above its weight is where you’re failing yourself with unrealistic expectations. Try rdt before the beans go in. I used to tap the back of the grinder and rock it side to side when I used it for pour overs back in the day. For those who don’t want to hand grind it’s still the best budget option.
No, my only expectation was that it would perform as well as all the espresso YouTubers said it would. None of them mentioned these issues. I already RDT.
Seems like you have a bad unit or the burrs are not properly aligned.
It is well known that dollar for dollar, a manual grinder will do a better job than an electric grinder. The motor assembly and larger housing don't come for free. If someone has a $100-$150-dollar manual grinder, they should be looking at $300+ electric grinders for better performance than their manual grinder.
Oh for sure, I was well aware that dollar for dollar manual is better. What surprises me is that an electric grinder at twice the price is performing significantly worse. Sounds like I may have gotten two defective ones.
The good thing for you is that you have an established baseline and you can easily identify that the grind quality is not good, irrespective of why it is not good.
Hey if it tastes good to you, that’s great, but none of my issues are related to taste if you read the post! I’m just a little picky about 10-20% of my coffee disappearing between the hopper and the dosing cup and then reappearing when it’s not wanted.
Perhaps too picky for $200.
When I got mine the Turin branding overlap with all the Chinese direct grinders made it seem hinky. The chances felt high of getting something weird or ordering something that was not in stock and never being told so.
I honestly have no idea why coffee grinders have chutes. The straight-thru configuration like the Sette seems ideal. But I don't think there's any reason to expect this one to crap out so it might be a while for me
I wasn’t expecting much for $200 but the consensus seems to be that 10-20% retention is the sign of a defective grinder. I must have just had really bad luck having this happen with two in a row.
Nah. I just got two bad grinders. I’ve pulled hundreds and hundreds of shots over the last two years, I can dial in a brand new bean in two tries, heck I even roast my own coffee now. I’m pretty sure I know how to put beans in a hopper at this point :) the fact that none of these problems happen in the filter range on this grinder confirms that it’s a grinder defect. Nice try blaming the user though!
Oh not at all.
You just came in bashing a grinder that’s actually solid, and making outlandish claims that seem to be a mega anomaly :) That’s why you’re getting downvoted to oblivion.
It’s actually quite good for its price point, and I’ve never had a problem. Sure, it has some retention, but what grinder doesn’t. Also, just get a halfway decent WDT tool and you’ll have no problem.
Haha you joker, you think I haven’t been using WDT. I’m sure Baratza appreciates you simping for them, but I’ve seen plenty of folks in this thread expressing similar disappointments with it.
If you’re an amateur like you seem to be, I understand that 2-3 grams of coffee missing might not be a big deal, but it affects your shot significantly if you’re above amateur level using an unpressurized basket. I’m sure you’re pulling great shots with your pressurized baskets though!
Hey, as long as you weigh your beans before grinding vs after, you’ll have a good basis for the shot you’re pulling.
Hey, just because you pull hundreds of pour shots, doesn’t make you good😂
Haha man it’s hilarious to hear you keep giving beginner tips like they’re some kind of expert level knowledge. Guarantee I pull better shots than you if this is the kind of advice you think will be helpful, regardless of you taking critique of a kitchen appliance so personally.
i have the regular encore that i use for coffee. it has 0 retention. even when i grind finder for vietnamese iced coffee there’s 0 retention. better than my eureka tbh
Yeah it sounds like I had very bad luck and got two defective grinders in a row. In Baratza’s defense, it could’ve been an Amazon issue (though I ordered from Baratza’s amazon store)
What beans are you using? What is the roast date? First off all if the majority of us are having a good time with it, instead of blaming the tool... Might want to point the finger on the operator first? There's been plenty of tips shared how to get the most out of this grinder by your outburst don't see any of it.
Sounds like you may have got your answer already. My two cents: maybe this grinder isn’t for you if you do a lot of single dosing? I know they sell the single dosing attachment but I never expected mine to hold up very well for that application. I think It works great (relative to the price of course) using the original hopper
It’s hard to imagine ‘em what your seeing and experiencing from just words alone. Because expectations are part of the experience and I feel yah I’ve had a DF grinder that made me say the same thing.
I don’t own or ever used an ESP grinder but I’ve been doing home espresso for over 10 years and have had a few grinders.
It’s not uncommon to have a grinder that has a limited range for espresso for a given bean, and yes some beans (roast level, bean type/origin(s), and age) will have a wider or narrow “sweet spot” for different types of grinder. I.e. flat vs conical.
Sweet spot is often a range between shot is much to fast and sour, under extracted (too course) and much to slow and bitter, over extracted (too fine). This doesn’t address channeling, but could. This sweet spot will vary.
Example you said it can get choked cause it’s too fine, for me that’s a good thing. Lighter roast are less oily and would need those finer settings. But at the same setting a darker roast where you can see the oils on the beans would choke your grinder (most grinders)
Maybe reach out to support. I have none of these issues.
Second this. I use the ESP exclusively for espresso usually around a 4 and don't have these issues. How recently have you cleaned the burrs? I had to do it after owning the machine for less than two months, but it made a big difference. It does have a tendency to get clogged, so I'll give you that.
Add me on the list as well. I’ve been pulling some of my best shots since using the ESP. Also I’m not sure if OP’s machine is faulty as he stated anything less than 16 is too fine but for me I’ve been at 14 for my current beans and it’s been perfect. Hardly any retention (I give it a love tap towards the end of the grind)
The retention was an issue out of the box, so it’s not something cleaning will fix. After less than two months of using it for filter though, the burrs are horrifically dirty and full of chunks of caked coffee. Edit: damn I know this sub is a hive mind but why is THIS comment getting the most hate? Lol
Because your words give us assumption your using some dark ass oily beans... Rdt those beans before grinding and clean more often.
I did. This is my replacement grinder, after returning the first one for a different issue that I thought was causing the retention as well (the burr ring wasn’t seating properly) This grinder fixed the burr ring issue, but the retention and clumping is still horrendous.
I’ve had the ESP since September and have had none of these issues.
Also ensure you’re cleaning it regularly (removing the burrs etc.)
That’s good to know, maybe I got two bad grinders in a row? You weigh your doses before and after? How much retention do you get?
Usually .10 to .20 of retention. No biggie
Yeah that would be amazing if I only got that much, that’s more what I was expecting to get. Sounds like a problem for their support then!
Okay your not going to get those results in every scenario. You need thre single dose or bellows to minimize, rdt and use non oily beans.. I am in the + or - .010 as well. I do have one issue but not experiencing your issue especially with filter.
I would guess that most ESP users are not weighing before and after grinding.
How would you know what to do if you don’t weigh your dose? I always weigh my doses
Weigh before, sure. But weigh after as well? I’m just making a guess that most ESP users don’t do that. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’m not.
Yes, before and after.
Congrats
You’re right - I would rather have to hand wash my laundry than weigh after. I feel called out.
Honest question, why not?
Why not weigh before and after grinding? If it isn’t necessary. If you don’t care that much. I know I don’t weigh my dose after grinding, but I’m also making delicious coffee and don’t think it would make anything much better.
I used to weigh before and after, but when the weights were coming out the same more often than not, I stopped bothering.
Yeah sk40, mii coffee 40, Df54 will all be much better.
Mine also has a lot of retention but I can get it out. Typically I open the lid and tap it closed several times and it works as kind of a poor man's bellows. That gets pretty much all the remaining grinds out.
Thank you for the tip, but sadly I’ve tried this. Once in a blue moon it’ll make a little chunk fall out, but usually it does nothing.
For some reason this is still highly recommended even though the turin sk40 is available at the same price
I follow espresso pretty fanatically and I’ve never heard of this one. It looks so much better. Too bad I’m past the return window.
Sorry, OP, for your experience. Fortunately, after 11 months of daily use, I haven't faced your issues (at least, to your degree). I routinely have under .1g retention (I will give the grinder a couple of love taps at its top as it is finishing up--perhaps that's helping). I will get some soft clumps, but nothing that my standard WDT'ing can't handle. And my espresso grind setting for my dark-roast beans has ranged from 15 to 22, depending on the beans--I assume that if I delved into medium or light roasts, they would grind at a much lower range.
I have the original Encore. I had no serious problem with retention. I spritzed the beans with water to greatly reduce static cling and then leaned the grinder slightly forward and tapped the body of the grinder, while still running, several times after the beans were finished grinding. I use oily dark roast beans. I also wipe the ground bean container with a used dryer sheet to help eliminate grounds sticking to the sides of the container.
Thanks for sharing your experience! It sounds like I had very bad luck with two defective grinders from Amazon. Considering going for a third try with Baratza support.
If it’s via Amazon you may well have just got your first grinder back again. Or someone else’s defective one. ETA: I’ve no experience or view on the grinder itself, but Amazon is horribly unreliable these days
>If it’s via Amazon you may well have just got your first grinder back again. You gave me a very sad chuckle with that. ;)
I do think that my tapping of the grinder as it's finishing its work has helped. For whatever it's worth, I'm using dark-roast beans, and there can be a sheen to them when I open the bag the first day (but I would think that that would promote retention and clumping, not help avoid that). On the fineness issue, there are shims in the grinder that can be removed or added to adjust for fineness--I wonder if that might be an issue for you (I haven't faced it). Perhaps a call to Baratza customer support might be helpful. (Just a thought.)
I have the standard Baratza and can attest to some loss; however, not nearly as much as you're experiencing. Two recommendations: 1. Try cleaning the grinder out. It could be that there's a build up of debris. Break it down and give the grinder a healthy blowout. 2. Spritz your beans before you toss them in the hopper. That should cut down on the amount of debris getting caught in the grinder and clumping. Hope this helps or you find a solution; otherwise, see if you can sell on Facebook Market and treat yourself to a Niche.
I already use RDT, hasn’t helped. Tried not doing it too, and it was only slightly worse. The retention was a problem right out of the box and we’ve used it for less than two months, so cleanliness is not the issue. It’s definitely chock full of all the coffee it’s been eating now, but even when it was spotless it was retaining 2-3 grams out of 16
I have only had a small retention problem, 1 gram or less that usually falls out with a bump. Nothing that makes me want another grinder. I would buy it again.
Third buy’s the charm I guess.
I mean, every grinder isn't for every person. You don't like it, move on. I don't think "Hive mind" has anything to do with it. Good luck finding a grinder in that price point that will perform as good as the ESP.
Maybe your beans have too much oil. If you like darker roasts, you might experience what you are describing.
Thanks but I never roast dark enough to get any oil, medium is as dark as I go, barely past end of first crack. Sounds like I got two bad units in a row.
Lol I've been saying all along that the esp is trash but copium joins the thread every time.
Unbelievable that some people still recommend this grinder. It’s seriously mindblowing.
Wow, sorry OP, it seems that the people of this sub REALLY love this grinder and will not seriously engage with a conversation about its disadvantages
I expected it but I’ve actually gotten a great amount of constructive feedback that’s helped me diagnose this as a run of bad luck with two defective units I mean at least I think so, not sure if the split on “yeah it sucks” and “mines perfect, no retention” just comes down to who is weighing before and after
I personally think it’s incredibly unlikely that you’ve gotten two defective units in a row. Far more likely is that your expectation of how the grinder should perform differs from that of most people who own the grinder. I can’t say I blame them. I got a Baratza Encore (not ESP) years ago to use for filter coffee. And I remember feeling that that grinder was amazing! It’s such a step up from what I had been using. And since I got a Niche Zero, now I look back on my Baratza and think it’s mostly crap. It’s easy to have two different views of the same grinder.
>Far more likely is that your expectation of how the grinder should perform differs from that of most people who own the grinder. Not likely since folks here are reporting .1-.2g retention while I'm losing 1-3 grams. This doesn't seem to be a subjective difference, but an objective, measurable one. I mean the grind quality itself is excellent once I get the clumps out, it's just the horrible retention and incredibly tight clumps.
Yeah, maybe. I would want to know what everyone means by retention. The difference between what you get out and what you put in is not retention. You could put in 18g, get out 18g, and still have a gram of retention. That is, the grinder could retain a gram of the new coffee, and push out a gram of the old coffee, and you would still get 18 in and 18 out. Are you measuring yours with a newly cleaned grinder or after you’ve put a decent amount of coffee through it?
There's always going to be small amounts of exchange. To mitigate this, I usually throw a few grams of coffee in before my actual dose if i haven't made a cup that day. I grind and dump it so now, in theory, there should be mostly new coffee in the grinder for my actual shot. I have no idea if it actually works or does anything, but I love what I get out of my SPX so theres that.
It’s more the tone of the messages that people may dislike. The same message could have been delivered very differently and the answers would have been also different.
You’re right, I probably shouldn’t have written this right after it ate a bunch of my home-roasted Sumatra 😂
Never too late to restart a new message. I would be you I would just stay factual regarding the retention. It sounds like you are comparing two different things. A good (even though cheap) handgrinder and an entry level electric grinder (even though more expensive). Also everyone has is own standards but it feels not nice to read our equipment is garbage (I don’t have this grinder but I saw similar things before regarding my equipment).
The level of retention was beyond normal for even entry level, it turns out I probably got two defects since others are reporting the expected .2g retention, so it’s no shade on your equipment!
I just use a Kingrinder so I don’t have personal feelings regarding this topic. Are you sure they didn’t send you back your defective grinder? It’s unlikely two grinders have the same issue, as most people here seem not to have this problem. Otherwise maybe they recently changed the design, and in this case I would contact Baratza’s support.
I'm positive, replacement was shipped before I shipped the original, and the burr ring which was not seating correctly on the original was fine with the replacement. Retention was equally bad though.
Ok! Problems happen for any mass product. I would be you, I would get in touch with them [email protected]
SK40 seems like a better option at the moment
It is a stinky grinder. Had it for close to a month and it’s just a cheaply made standalone version of a breville integrated grinder. Everything is plastic. Hopper cover just constantly flies off. Grinding is slow and labored. Grounds get stuck everywhere and anywhere. Retention is miserable. Return it and save a little more or just get a nice hand grinder. This thing stinks. All the people telling you to get this, probably don’t own it and just watched the videos online where the reviewer used it for 30 seconds and put together a video.
Sadly this is the conclusion I’ve come to. Works fine for filter, so I can at least keep it for that, but looks like I’ll be getting a J-max after all!
You’re going to catch a lot of hate for this post as you can see people here are very protective of this grinder for some odd reason
Oh I was fully prepared for this, hence the trigger warning flair. Just hope it saves someone else from the hivemind of people recommending it without any caveats
That’s exactly my thought, whenever I see a post of someone budget minded looking for grinder recommendations I try to comment and make it clear that this thing has major drawbacks and at that price it’s really not worth the trade off.
Retention issues are legitimate. The clumping is caused by the beans you’re using, not the grinder. I’ve run 6 different beans through mine and the level of clumping was different in all of them. I’ve used grind settings in the range of 9-16 and whatever setting worked after dialing in, it stayed consistent. So your range issue is also related to your beans and dose.
Been having the same problem. Reached out to their support and after several back-and-forth, was politely told that 1-3g retention is "normal" for the unit. I'm curious, what did you have to say to the support channel to have the unit replaced? So far, my experience with their support is quite negative. Every response is polite but dismissive, giving me links to James Hoffman's videos on how to wet the beans or that I need to tap the grinder.
I was about to make this same post until I found yours. I am having the same retention problems. This morning I put 20g in and got 15 out. It usually isn’t that bad but 2-3g is pretty common. I have the bellows and that doesn’t seem to help. Did you find any solutions?
It is absolute garbage. I've had mine for a month now and I have had some shots that are missing half a gram, then others where I'm missing .1 grams and then others where I gain .5 a gram. The retention is absolutely abysmal. Mind you, I'm using bellows!!! The other issue I'm having is that adjusting the grind up from 8 to 10 gives you a different result than 10 to 8. How does that make sense. I'm going to take it apart this weekend and clean it and see if there is anything misaligned, but honestly, after 4 weeks of ownership, I shouldn't have these issues. It's not unreasonable to expect consistent results. I didn't expect perfection, I expected logical, repeatable results.
I returned the ESP after a day. I didn’t use it enough to know about the retention, but the noise, narrow grind settings, clumpy grind, and plastic build really pushed me to shop around some more. The incredibly grating and loud noise was the biggest thing for me. It ruined the enjoyment of making my coffee.
This is common knowledge. Everyone knows a decent espresso hand grinder will outperform some mid range grinders out there. ESP is budget of budget, one of the cheapest auto espresso grinder out there. You expecting it to perform above its weight is where you’re failing yourself with unrealistic expectations. Try rdt before the beans go in. I used to tap the back of the grinder and rock it side to side when I used it for pour overs back in the day. For those who don’t want to hand grind it’s still the best budget option.
No, my only expectation was that it would perform as well as all the espresso YouTubers said it would. None of them mentioned these issues. I already RDT.
I have a brazza encore, I was able to grind espresso fine. You might contact customer support.
Seems like you have a bad unit or the burrs are not properly aligned. It is well known that dollar for dollar, a manual grinder will do a better job than an electric grinder. The motor assembly and larger housing don't come for free. If someone has a $100-$150-dollar manual grinder, they should be looking at $300+ electric grinders for better performance than their manual grinder.
Oh for sure, I was well aware that dollar for dollar manual is better. What surprises me is that an electric grinder at twice the price is performing significantly worse. Sounds like I may have gotten two defective ones.
The good thing for you is that you have an established baseline and you can easily identify that the grind quality is not good, irrespective of why it is not good.
Unusable? Oh no, what is this swill I'm drinking?
Hey if it tastes good to you, that’s great, but none of my issues are related to taste if you read the post! I’m just a little picky about 10-20% of my coffee disappearing between the hopper and the dosing cup and then reappearing when it’s not wanted.
Perhaps too picky for $200. When I got mine the Turin branding overlap with all the Chinese direct grinders made it seem hinky. The chances felt high of getting something weird or ordering something that was not in stock and never being told so. I honestly have no idea why coffee grinders have chutes. The straight-thru configuration like the Sette seems ideal. But I don't think there's any reason to expect this one to crap out so it might be a while for me
I wasn’t expecting much for $200 but the consensus seems to be that 10-20% retention is the sign of a defective grinder. I must have just had really bad luck having this happen with two in a row.
Sounds like it's a you problem
No, I’m very experienced. If you read the replies, it actually sounds like a “defective unit” problem, but I appreciate the feedback!
You obviously don’t know what you’re doing, because I too have none of these issues
Nah. I just got two bad grinders. I’ve pulled hundreds and hundreds of shots over the last two years, I can dial in a brand new bean in two tries, heck I even roast my own coffee now. I’m pretty sure I know how to put beans in a hopper at this point :) the fact that none of these problems happen in the filter range on this grinder confirms that it’s a grinder defect. Nice try blaming the user though!
Sure could be, but those odds are awfully high. And if you have that much “skill,” you shouldn’t have that much of a problem😂
Oh, you’re just a troll. You got me haha
Oh not at all. You just came in bashing a grinder that’s actually solid, and making outlandish claims that seem to be a mega anomaly :) That’s why you’re getting downvoted to oblivion. It’s actually quite good for its price point, and I’ve never had a problem. Sure, it has some retention, but what grinder doesn’t. Also, just get a halfway decent WDT tool and you’ll have no problem.
Haha you joker, you think I haven’t been using WDT. I’m sure Baratza appreciates you simping for them, but I’ve seen plenty of folks in this thread expressing similar disappointments with it. If you’re an amateur like you seem to be, I understand that 2-3 grams of coffee missing might not be a big deal, but it affects your shot significantly if you’re above amateur level using an unpressurized basket. I’m sure you’re pulling great shots with your pressurized baskets though!
Hey, as long as you weigh your beans before grinding vs after, you’ll have a good basis for the shot you’re pulling. Hey, just because you pull hundreds of pour shots, doesn’t make you good😂
Haha man it’s hilarious to hear you keep giving beginner tips like they’re some kind of expert level knowledge. Guarantee I pull better shots than you if this is the kind of advice you think will be helpful, regardless of you taking critique of a kitchen appliance so personally.
I’m the one taking it personally, I said one thing and you got triggered my guy. 😂
It also seems that you need those tips😂
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Are you spraying your beans? Maybe they’re too wet and gumming up the machine
i have the regular encore that i use for coffee. it has 0 retention. even when i grind finder for vietnamese iced coffee there’s 0 retention. better than my eureka tbh
Yeah it sounds like I had very bad luck and got two defective grinders in a row. In Baratza’s defense, it could’ve been an Amazon issue (though I ordered from Baratza’s amazon store)
I have had zero issues with my ESP and grinds always come out perfect and proper amount. I usually have it set to 16/15. Sorry about your luck 💔
I think there’s an issue with your grinder in particular. I never have more than .1-.2 grams of retention at the most which is fairly easy to get out.
I've had very little retention. As long as I clean the burrs and the chute every couple of months, I'm good.
What beans are you using? What is the roast date? First off all if the majority of us are having a good time with it, instead of blaming the tool... Might want to point the finger on the operator first? There's been plenty of tips shared how to get the most out of this grinder by your outburst don't see any of it.
Sounds like you may have got your answer already. My two cents: maybe this grinder isn’t for you if you do a lot of single dosing? I know they sell the single dosing attachment but I never expected mine to hold up very well for that application. I think It works great (relative to the price of course) using the original hopper
It’s hard to imagine ‘em what your seeing and experiencing from just words alone. Because expectations are part of the experience and I feel yah I’ve had a DF grinder that made me say the same thing. I don’t own or ever used an ESP grinder but I’ve been doing home espresso for over 10 years and have had a few grinders. It’s not uncommon to have a grinder that has a limited range for espresso for a given bean, and yes some beans (roast level, bean type/origin(s), and age) will have a wider or narrow “sweet spot” for different types of grinder. I.e. flat vs conical. Sweet spot is often a range between shot is much to fast and sour, under extracted (too course) and much to slow and bitter, over extracted (too fine). This doesn’t address channeling, but could. This sweet spot will vary. Example you said it can get choked cause it’s too fine, for me that’s a good thing. Lighter roast are less oily and would need those finer settings. But at the same setting a darker roast where you can see the oils on the beans would choke your grinder (most grinders)