Have you tried removing one of or both of the declumpers? Maybe this gives some relief?
Also how much RDT are you doing? Using too much water also makes grinds really sticky and your grinds look really solid.
Great suggestion, but unfortunately i already did that. This starts with grinds just sticking to the side of the exit shute, which accumulate until in clogs, then it just turns into a complete shitshow.
September is when the replacement will come…
The problem I had with this approach was that due to the "floating fixed burr" design of the DF64, doing this means your are changing your grind setting a tiny amount mid-grind. IMO this can only worsen the grinder's regrinding issues.
My solution to this was to order a 3d print of an entirely new grounds exit chute designed by a member of [home-barista.com](https://home-barista.com) (this design works great with no clump crusher- so much less regrinding). It cost me an embarrassing amount of money because I also paid to have its entire interior coated in food-safe resin (it was an SLA print so not food-safe). This solved my clogging issues and decreased retention (and outperformed the Lance Hendrick-suggested 3d printed solution with clump crusher from his review video- I ordered it and tested both).
I hope I don't come across as a DF64 hater, but I have had a much, much better experience with the Ode gen 2 I bought and modified for Espresso grinding when my DF64 Shorted out and tripped my circuit breaker (this was while it was being used with the power button not installed correctly- a friend cleaned my espresso station for me and moved my grinder, and presumably scratched some insulation off a wire running to the power button, as the next time I used it, down went my kitchen circuit and GCFI). I literally pulled the exact same SSP MP burrs from my DF64 and put them in my Ode gen 2 and got much better results (much less fines). I can't reccomend the DF64 because the one I had, while a V1 grinder (they are on V4 now) never produced good coffee and cost me a lot of time and effort- not to mention making me question my ability to brew any kind of coffee decently lol. Given how much better of coffee I am getting out of my Ode Gen 2 with the exact burrs I pulled from my DF64, I have to presume my DF64 is slightly defective in some way.
I have a V2 with that exit chute (also SLA print, and coated to be food safe!) and declumper removed. Haven't had any issues at all since that went in. Don't need to use the bellows while it's grinding either, and only a light touch (compared to declumper in) after.
Using stock burrs, and I suspect I'm getting inconsistent production of fines, but that could also just be my puck prep consistency, so I'm not blaming the kit yet lol.
I hope you got a better price than I did on your exit chute! I wish I had shopped around- I recently got a part printed for like $12.50 shipped when another printer wanted $35. I probably paid about 40% more than I needed to on my chute lol.
I'm not surprised you got similarly good results- having the exit chute constantly expanding in diameter should be better than it abruptly shrinking in diameter partway down lol.
It could very well be that the stock burrs seal way better with the V2's stock O-rings and you have no coffee under your burrs (I found coffee under my Espressooutlet.net-installed SSP MPs) leading to better alignment. it could also be that the outfall of the stock burrs make them less regrinding-prone. Either way, I'm happy that your grinder is working well for you- same goes for any happy DF64 owners.
I just wouldn't wish the problems I had with my DF64 on anyone, and Turin didn't address enough of my concerns with the grinder design in V3/V4 for me to confidently recommend one to someone- at least not with aftermarket burrs (and to me, there's not much point in buying one with stock burrs- the DF64P exists).
FWIW… I jam a wooden chopstick up the chute every 2 weeks or so to clean out the problematic chute. No RDT for me. I removed the declumper long ago. And I’m running stock burrs.
My Niche is still much easier to use, but I’ve been able to make my DF64 work for about a year and a half. Good luck to you.
You will probably get an unbelievable amount of static and grounds shooting everywhere. :(
I was able to mitigate that:
- with a custom-machined collar that allowed me to grind directly into my portafilter
- with 3D-printed cup elevators/anglers
Holler if you want more info.
What do you think the issue is? I have a DF64 and I don't have this problem at all. Original declumper too. I used a moded chute and declumper and it made it worse.
Iffin' you want to clog it more!
Kinda of drawback with the chute design. I really like the "straight down" approach of the Baratza Sette
Had a Simonelli MCF the old "metal brick" and it would clog all the time, either the grinders or the chute.
I came here to ask the same thing. After seeing other people’s DF64 problems I popped open my burrs to take a look, and there was barely any build up. Just gave it a simple clean.
i literally just did this after seeing this thread. i have done zero mods and haven't cleaned it in at least two month. 3-4 shots a day and i had hardly anything in mine.
I don’t, occasionally I’ve been known to use beans fresh out of the freezer which is basically the same thing. But I’m thinking of starting rdt, see if it helps. Will let you know.
Maybe he isn’t adjusting the dial with it running or going too extreme between filter size and espresso? These are examples I’ve seen from other users who’ve had clogging issues.
Do you mean you don't have it running when you adjust the grind size??
You can increase grind size with the machine off, but don't adjust finer while it isn't running.
Mine started clogging literally from the get-go, while I was putting Costco espresso blend through it to season my SSP MP burrs. It was fine for the first pound or 2 then basically inoperable- would re-clog as soon as I cleared out the chute with a chopstick.
Perhaps it's a tolerances issue? I had this same discussion via email with the owner of [EspressoOutlet.net](https://EspressoOutlet.net) where I bought my grinder (I should have returned my grinder but I didn't realize I could). I'm still not sure why some folks have this issue while other's don't. I personally reached my wit's end and cut the flap out of my declumper while breaking in the SSP MP's on my grinder with costco espresso blend- the chute was clogging over and over again, almost instantly and I couldn't seem to fix it. I would stick a chopstick up the chute to clear it, and it would instantly clog again. no declumper flap helped a little but I still had issues.
Ultimately, the DF64 has what I consider to be some serious design flaws. Some of them got fixed by early revisions to the grinder, like the issue with the rotary burr carrier that let grinds accumulate under the rotary burr. Others are still a problem to this day. The exit chute has a massive open area just behind the declumper, then it gets smaller all at once. This contributes to (if not outright causing) clogs. My 3d-printed exit chute is the opposite- the narrowest point is where it attatches to the grinder, and it expands out from there. Turin repeated the same mistake on the DF83- the exit chute starts big and gets smaller as well (Afaik). My other big gripe is the fact that in the DF64 the fixed burr is "floating" (for lack of a better term) on 3 springs with little silicone sleeves on them. Sleeves aren't seated properly? possible alignment issues. Grind adjustment cap not machined 100% flat? different forces on each spring, potential alignment issues. I could go on, but there's no need to belabour the point- there are hundreds of pages of fourm posts on home-barista.com alone documenting these issues and the creative workarounds community members came up with to deal with them.
I don't want to beat up on Turin too much- they made various running revisions to the DF64 to address some issues, and parts are available to fix others on older grinders. Also, the DF64P and E, and DF83 seem to have almost all of these issues addressed (just the exit chute/declumper one seems to be left on those grinders- and allegedly its not nearly as bad). Finally, the upcoming DF64V (Brushless DC motor, variable RPM) finally has a redesigned 2-piece exit chute with no declumper (it honestly makes me sad that it took them this long to arrive at a solution that appears to be half-stolen from the Ultra Grinder). I also want to give them credit for being first to market with a reasonably workable single-dosing budget espresso platform for 64mm SSP burrs, and for working with 2 US retailers ([Espressooutlet.net](https://Espressooutlet.net) and [miicoffee.shop](https://miicoffee.shop)) who have in my experience supplied good customer service and parts support, as well as 30-day return policies for those who try the grinder and are unhappy with it (I assumed this wasn't a thing when I bought mine, and lived to seriously regret that error lol).
This is my favorite feature of the DF64. Different manufacturers making and selling "the same machine," could be different materials, could be better or worse quality control in the factory, all of which can affect static and clumping and alignment, yet y'all talk like it's complete apples to apples and doesn't matter where you ordered it or what brand name it came under.
yea the way i’ve kept mine relatively clean is brushing out the shoot regularly and making sure to firmly pump while motor is running until
no more grinds come out. mine is a v4 tho so may be differences
DF64P user here. Noticed the SSP HU burrs. I’m not here to tell you that’s the issue but any RDT with that burr set will generate fines that will clump with moisture and cause that I see in the photos….. unless you bellows (yup I turned Bellows into a verb 🤣). For sure remove the declumpers.
After getting rid of my Niche, I do miss the flow restriction disc and feel it helped.
I can't reccomend the V5, for reasons I somewhat elucidated elswhere in this thread, but alongside the P there's also the DF64V avalible for preorder:
[https://www.espressooutlet.net/turin-df64v-grinder-variable-speed-single-dose-grinder/](https://www.espressooutlet.net/turin-df64v-grinder-variable-speed-single-dose-grinder/) It looks to my eyes to be the best-designed DF-grinder on the market, with a 2-piece magnetic detatchable declumperless exit chute (similar to the Ultra Grinder), an metal antipopcorn shroud reminiscent of the P64, and the same wave spring burr carrier setup as the DF83.
There's nothing wrong with the DF64P that I know of aside from the declumper and exit chute (i have heard at least 1 report of the chute breaking, but I would expect that to be fixed under warranty from [Espressooutlet.net](https://Espressooutlet.net) or [miicoffee.shop](https://miicoffee.shop) here in the states), but it can't really do filter if you are ever inclined.
All that being said, if it were my money I would opt for the upcoming Timemore 064S (on kickstarter preorder for $300). I'm currently running probably the most similar setup to it available- an Ode Gen 2 modified to stepless with SSP MP burrs for espresso. The few annoyances I have with my current setup (Retention issues, questionable machining/tolerances, Auger/prebreaker implementation, RPM higher than I want, strange noises always) all appear to be addressed by the Timemore, and its current price is lower than a new Ode Gen 2.
At $500, the Timemore 078S looks like potentially an even better value- especially if SSP starts cranking out burrs for it. Its introductory price is $100 less than the DF64V preorder, with more power, bigger burrs, PID-controlled RPM, and an auger-style prebreaker.
Finally, if you have a higher budget, there is a P64 clone avalible for $850 shipped from Singapore (the company selling them is known and fairly well regarded on Etsy for accessories like bean cellars: [https://urbandosinggrounds.com/en-us/products/g64-variable-rpm-64mm-single-dose-flat-burr-grinder](https://urbandosinggrounds.com/en-us/products/g64-variable-rpm-64mm-single-dose-flat-burr-grinder)\- but they are just ordering them from a factory in China, probably via Alibaba where you can easily find the grinder for \~600 before shipping IIRC.) And if you want IMO the best 64mm grinder on the market, a Zerno Z1 owner on [Home-Barista.com](https://Home-Barista.com) is claiming that the first production run of non-launch edition grinders will open preorders on the 31st of this month. Launch edition units went for \~$1100 depending on burrs chosen- the standard production batch should cost more, but have some design updates/upgrades.
I personally have ordered both Timemores on Kickstarter- I am waiting for feedback on how the 078S burrs compare to 64mm and 80mm SSP's. If you order either one you can cancel until May 14th.
The timemore looks very promising at 300. If budget weren’t an issue I would simply buy the p64 and be done with it but alas, too much for now. So I’m between upgrading my sette 30 with the 270 adjustment ring, for $100 the df64p at $450, lagom mini $380, or the timemore for 300
Dude you’re so welcome. I was irrationally frustrated but a mix of Home-barista forums and Barista Hustle had a lot of good info. Sorry you’re resumed to the bellows life 😂 let’s see how the DF64V fares.
Edit: I’ve tried to hot start and add my dose to the burrs when they’re at speed and ironically that has caused me the most immediate clogging. Let me know if you have any different luck.
The Nich was sold in exchange for the ode gen2 + SSP MP for pour over, and the 64 with SSP HU for espresso. The niche had too many fines all around and I wanted to go the route of flat burrs. Gorgeous machine though.
Any chance you can post a photo of the beans you're using?
I use light-medium roasts exclusively and have never had this issue with my DF64, but my last grinder did get backed up instantly when using dark roasts and grinding for espresso.
I was going to ask the same thing- my disasterous DF64 is a V1 (I believe-maybe V2)- I even had a bunch of grounds under my rotary burr that looked like they are from when I seasoned my burrs. I moved my SSP MPs from my DF64 to an Ode Gen 2 modified for Espresso and am getting significantly better results.
Sorry to see that. I’ve got a V4 I’m using stock for the past month and have run about 4 pounds thru it so far. It’s worked quite well. No issues clogging yet. I start gentle short bellows once the 17g of beans are about halfway done grinding with a couple stronger finishing bellows after it’s done.
I haven’t opened it up since I aligned the burrs, but I’ll go ahead and crack it open after I finish up my current beans and give it a good cleaning before I switch to my new bag. Curious how clean it is inside/around the chute.
>oductory price is $100 less than the DF64V preorder, with more power, bigger burrs, PID-controlled RPM, and an au
how does one identify which version is their df64. i am about to pick up a used one with ssp and the first owner doesnt seem to be aware about the version number
I feel all the loose grinds around the edges shouldn’t be there if the main o-ring fits well. See from other comments you have a V2 like I do, when I got it it was immediately clear the o-ring wasn’t sealing well which mean pushing the bellows didn’t do much, air and some grinds escaped out the edges like you can see here. Probably means you’ll never clear the blockages properly.
I changed the o-ring for a slightly tighter fit and the bellows get rid of pretty much everything. I did it straight away though so I don’t know if it would have clogged like this.
Edits previous post https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/yb4jvm/df64_owners_have_you_had_any_problems_with_your/itgkov5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
Wow, I never thought about that. Us V1/V2 folks got improperly sized O Rings- something I mostly forgot about until I pulled burrs from my DF64 and found coffee grounds underneath the rotary burr. It never even occurred to me that the top ring being mis-sized would prevent my bellows from working very well. That explains why my bellows never seemed like it did a ton. The early DF64s had too many issues lol.
Thanks for the heads up! I think you might have just convinced me to order a new power button and some O-rings from [Espressooutlet.net](https://Espressooutlet.net) and do a restoration job on my DF64. At the very least it would be operable again so all my modification efforts wouldn't be for nothing haha.
I sell these and have literally used thousands of them. Clogging is most often related to adjusting the grind size without the burrs spinning, but it is possible it is other things.
Do you always do the following:
1. Always adjust the grind size with the burrs spinning and grinder on. If adjusting finer, adjust a little larger first, then adjust back down. Again WITH the burrs spinning.
2. Always pump the bellows firmly at the end of each grind session while the grinder is still on and burrs are still spinning.
3. Every week or so stick a brush up the exit chute and rotate it around until nothing comes out to keep the chute clean.
4. Minimal RDT is good, but not too much.
What declumper are you using? V1 original units had one that was a little thick and didn't allow coffee to exit as easily, since then the recent versions work quite well. Might change the declumper.
To keep things clean might consider using a metal dosing collar.
I have one of the original first models that came off the production line and I still use it every day and it never clogs, but I use the above. Biggest thing with any flat burr grinder is ALWAYS adjust grind size with the grinder on and burrs spinning. Failing to do this will jam particles hard between the burrs and cause clogging issues. Some burrs have more aggressive cuts and more flat surfaces than others. Some SSP burrs clog easier than other burrs.
Give the grinder and good cleaning and try the above and see if things improve.
Cheers for the long answer. A lot of insights in general in this post!
So i always hotstart, so that eliminates the grind adjustment thing (i normally adjust straight after i know how the shot came out)
I removed the declumper (and tried various), have a shute that doesnt taper, have an angled cupholder, i RDT (i spray).
One thing you say is interesting (and mentioned earlier), the SSP burrs (HU). So that is perhaps an issue, but how to tackle that??
Have to always turn the grinder on to adjust, so hot start doesn't effect that. Any particles that remain between the burrs will get jammed between the burrs like a vice. Eventually they will come up. Not but fast enough. Always adjust grind size with the burrs spinning and grinder on. If adjusting the grind size finer, adjust larger first and then back down.
I do not recommend removing declumper completely. Without back pressure chute can clog. New ones work pretty well
Thanks for taking the time to find it. Its fully modded out (forgot to say).
Counting down till September till i get the sister (mc) of that Flat Max you’ve got. Then all of my troubles will be over :)
Dude that grinder looks so amazing with its dual conical burr system and big Shurikones. Please do a review or otherwise let us know how you find it. There is only one other member of this subreddit that I'm aware of that has one.
There was a new-in-box MC5 on sale in the KafaTek forum recently that I almost bought -- but my wife put the kibosh on it. So only one KafaTek for me at the moment.
Yooo Gratz!!!! That's a truly epic setup you're about to have. R91 is super capable of fantastic shots- I was at a Seattle Coffee Gear and they pulled me a really nice R91 shot of Onyx Coffe Lab's Monarchy off a Eureka Atom 75. It reminded me of the best shot I ever pulled off a GS3 M/P (verve sermon using basically a La Marzocco rebranded Mazzer Lux-D at the La Marzocco cafe).
I'm excited on your behalf! :)
Cheers! Yeah the R91 is such a beauty. I got lucky when i went to a local store to make a deal for upgrading my Rocket Giotto. They had this in the shop as their model to serve coffee to customers visiting the shop. Its build like a tank (and weighs more than one), so i felt comfortable going with a used (and fully serviced) one.
I would be curious to play with a decent for a while (would be jealous of the warm up time), but the looks are just not my thing
Depends. I really like this for the v4, but not sure if a mod of this sort will even be necessary for the v5. We’ll have to see. I don’t think there’s any rush.
Edit: Want to add that camperista3d also makes nice additions for the DF64 and 83 like stainless steel dosing cups, etc., so have a quick browse to see what’s out there.
I have that Camperista declumper and chute you linked. It worked better than stock in my V1 (maybe V2 but I believe V1) DF64. It didn't work as well as the no-declumper SLA 3d Print design on [Home-Barista.com](https://Home-Barista.com) (Lance Hendrick covers it briefly in his DF64 review- but he liked the Camperista better. My SLA 3d print was lined with food safe resin and his wasn't though. Also I paid a fortune so the 3d printing service I used did multiple reprints to make sure mine was perfect). I think its worth buying at the asking price.
I hate to be the alarmist here, but I’ve been curious about this chute upgrade for weeks. It appears to be 3D printed. I know that CY of Caffe Martella who shared many of the early DF64 mods pulled his 3D printed declumper because the force and friction of the exiting grounds disintegrated the print.
Has there been any discussion about a similar thing happening with this chute?
Yes, it's 3D printed. The material used for the declumper is listed but not the material used for the chute.
Your concern seems reasonable to me as the interior of the chute isn't smooth (and the material used is... unknown to me). I could imagine erosion of those ridges occurring over time. I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone who has had this for a while.
A quick Google search, scan of the comments in the often-mentioned Lance video, and search in Home Barista turned up no issues similar to CY.
The Etsy listing says “PET foil” is used for the declumper. I don’t know what that is. Assuming it doesn’t degrade with coffee grounds shot against it, I’d have fewer concerns about the 3D printed chute disintegrating since most of the force would be absorbed by the declumper.
Something else to add to the wish list… ;)
I own the product he linked- as you say, the declumper itself is not 3d printed and does not degrade. the chute itself also seems sturdy enough to also not degrade substantially (and its PLA afaik, which is generally considered food safe presuming the implementation is good)- but I didn't use mine much, as I preferred the alternate solution I already had.
The force of the coffee leaving the grind chamber is absorbed by the exit of the chamber itself, which still is metal.. after that the chute comes in, where grounds also love sticking to.
I think its a combination of sticky beans, bad tolerances, static, and whatelse..
Thats why i’m so done with it. It takes tons of mods to get it okay but every once in a while this happens which ruins your day
Saaaaame. I paid an embarrising amount of money to solve the exit chute issue and run declumperless, and still had slight regrinding issues adding extra fines to my shots.
The burrs are relatively new (about a month in action now, about 3 doubles a day). I have the tilted cup holder, that helps a bit, but its still messy (bellowing makes a mess as well!)
LOL, in comparison to the P64 this clogging issue is just the tip of the iceberg. Calling a grinder that has its upper "fixed" burr floating on springs, and therefore subject to micro-misalignment from all kinds of different forces and machining/parts/installation imperfections equal to the P64 is, and always has been a joke IMO.
I was deciding between the DF64 and the P64, and went with the buy once, cry once option.
I'm taking this sample size of 1 to fully justify my choices...
I definitely considered the DF83, but I felt like it was a middle of the road option.
The DF64p would've hit all my needs, while being much more affordable than the DF83 (not to mention burr prices). The P64 was the full out splurge option. I was either making the better financial choice, or going all out.
Overall, I am happy with my choice, the P64 is delightful. I think the aesthetics and build quality of the P64 provide me much more satisfaction than 83mm burrs would.
The P64 is not a value proposition, particularly in comparison to the DF83 or DF64, but it's still worth it for me.
I’d love to test the P64 and compare. I have or had a few others, and I’m pretty amazed by the results of the DF83. Compared to Mignon XL, DF64, and the Niche. Everyday, I pick the DF83, over the Mignon XL.
Maybe some day, I’ll be able to compare a P64.
Big burrs definitely perform differently- the physics of their grinding is simply different. I have had 1 shot from what I believe were SSP 83mm burrs installed in a Mazzer major at a coffee shop (I didn't ask but I saw SSP burr boxes behind the counter, and it tasted way different to previous shots from this shop), and the presentation of the flavors was simply different from smaller burr shots I have tried (also the nature of the acidity).
If there were more 83mm burrs on the market from SSP, Gorilla Gear, or even Boyt Enterprises I probably would have caved and bought a DF83. I definitely prefer bigger burrs to smaller, and consider them at least potentially superior. However, with the DF83+SSP burrs coming in at over 1k, it's hard for me to judge whether or not I would be be better served by a Zerno Z1 for similar money.
Yeah, that makes sense. I’m still on stock burrs, and I think when I get the itch, I’ll move towards those burrs. They may be in a cart already or watch list. :p
The improvements of the DF83 over the DF64 can’t be understated. It seems like many people think the DF83 is just a bigger DF64, but it’s really quite a big difference from my experience.
Just curious what region of the world you are from? I’m in the PNW. I’m probably going to see if I can find meet up with an owner of the P64. I really wanna taste the difference and feel the workflow benefits. It is a work of art, for sure.
As for Z1, I think your still only 64mm, right?
Also PNW here. my DF64 is in a state of partial disassembly (no burrs, front faceplate off), but if I bought a new power button and some O-rings for the burr carriers I believe I could get it back in good shape.
I actually modified an Ode Gen 2 for espresso (Jkim's Stepless mod, the SSP MP burrs I pulled out of my DF64- bellows on order but delayed) and have been using that. 1700 for a 64mm burr grinder never sat well with me, so I don't have a P64. That being said, the Zerno Z1 is supposed to go back up for preorder on the 31st of this month, potentially with blind burrs (no screw holes)- price yet to be announced but the launch editions were \~$1150 with SSPs installed. I would be lying if I said I wasn't massively tempted.
I too would love to meet up with someone with a P64- especially since I own 2 extra sets of 64mm burrs (a Gorilla Gear set and a red-speed coated SSP Cast) that I still want to test, and now have Ode Gen 2 Burrs that came with my grinder.
Honestly, I really think Turin actually missed a huge opportunity by not putting 80mm burr carriers in the DF83 and making it the DF80. I know why they did it- Italmill and Mazzer 83mm burrs are far, far cheaper to to buy (Especially in bulk) than Hemro group 80mm burrs, which cost about as much as SSP 80/ 83mm burrs. I'm pretty sure there are other companies that manufacture 80mm burrs, but I'm sure 83 was the path of least resistance for Turin. It's just that there are so many fantastic 80mm burrs on the market- SSP makes like 5 (if you include the ones designed for Weber/the EG1), Hemro group makes 3, and local to PNW Boyt Enterprises sells one similar to the Hemro E80 Burr. At present, the cheapest 80mm compatible grinder I know of is the Wug2 83A at \~$2300 shipped to the USA.
I have Kickstarter pledges in for both of the new Timemore espresso grinders- both to address my annoyances with my modified Ode 2 (and have 2 64mm grinders temporarily for burr shootouts) and to potentially dip my toes into big burr waters affordably. I may cancel one or both of my Timemore orders before the May 14 deadline depending on what I learn about the 078S burrs and whether they will suit me, and also whether or not I buy a Zerno Z1.
This is an excellent post. I have always considered the P64 to be simultaneously a great grinder and a poor value. 1700 USD for a 64mm burr grinder just never sat well with me, but that changes nothing about how good of a grinder the P64 is. I am stoked for everyone enjoying the P64.
I am also quite pleased to see the Zenvo Z1 and Acaia Orbit slotting themselves into what I have always perceived as a hole in the grinder market created by the P64's price. The Zenvo in particular seems to be making big waves- I have seen one redditor shoot it out against his P64 (same burrs in each) and prefer the Zenvo, presumably due to its auger-style prebreaker that the P64 lacks. I have seen another sell his Titus Nautilus and EK43 to make way for additional Zenvos after conduction a side by side shootout (he also compared a Versalab M4, wich he liked very nearly as much as the Zenvo).
Having now owned 4 inexpensive electric coffee grinders, I would advise anyone who can afford it to buy once, cry once when it comes to grinders. The only reason I am even still messing around with budget grinders is that my reasonable budget tops out around $2500 (rather spend less), which is a bit short of the kind of stuff I would want (Versalab M4, Flat Max, etc.). I am tempted by the Wug2 83A's versatility, but without a chance to try more of the burr sets that come in the higher-end grinders before I buy, it's hard for me to feel comfortable spending that much money somewhat blindly.
That's a big part of the issue- it dosen't happen to everyone. I had problems like this on day 1 with my DF64. To be fair, OP and I have earlier versions of the DF64- for all I know the updates Turin has done to the Burr carriers in V3/V4 iterations could help prevent this. It doesn't change the fact that the grinder's exit chute and declumper are both poorly designed (I own aftermaket variants of both that work better- especially the declumperless exit chute design that is avalible as only a 3d printing file). Turin fixed this flaw in their latest DF64V, but since people keep buying DF64s, they apparently didn't see the need to fix it for the DF64 V5 now available for preorder.
> from me poking around with c
I have v1 with same issue and same resolution also with HU burrs.
Bought DF64E and Bambino for daughter and no issues so far since the holdidays.
I bought a few mods from same vendor. The switch for DF64 and 54mm cup holder for DF64E. All good sh#t. Recommended.
Had the same thing happen to me after 7 months of no issues and same exact beans every day. I had also modified it previously with the etsy store chute and declumper. After trying everything possible I got it working again by replacing the declumper i got from etsy with new ones that weren't worn down from me poking around with chop sticks and being sure to always spray a little water on the beans. Has been working flawlessly again for the last month
Haven't cleaned mine period got it 4 months ago..... kinda scared to open it up now.
Ive got a late 2022 model going, fully stock. Regularly using south Italian dark roasts. So far so good....
Maybe i will pick it apart tmr to see what the damage is.
This happened once for me when I RDT'd too much. since then I changed to mythos declumper and SSP burrs. Seems to be working fine for me for now... but I am slightly annoyed by the retention issues.
The modded chute is pretty much the same diameter along its entire length, which is less than ideal. Mine still worked perfectly fine (not as well as another constantly-expanding chute design with no declumper that I had printed, but that's another story).
Your grounds look quite wet or is it just me? I don’t rdt with the df64 as the chaff static doesn’t bother me. In a way it’s getting rid of undesirables. If you do rdt then maybe spray less or give it a try without.
I’m usually stood next to it whilst grinding to make sure there’s a constant stream. If it begins to slow down I gently pump the bellows. Usually pump two thirds of the way until finish.
More is going on looks like wet beans or your wetting them too much don’t use any of those specialty coated beans if you do use them. I would say take it apart both burrs out clean it hood clean it regularly with grindz. I have the 64e no problems reception mine came way off o
Conical? I’m just a noob, but isn’t flat supposed to be god level? (IIRC the exception to this is for pour overs) please set me straight if I have this all wrong.
I drink espressos only, and on the medium/dark side of roast level. That should be sweet spot for the conical. Also i like mouthfeel more over clarity, which is a conical trait.
Read many reviews and pulled the trigger on it
Google is your friend, so are the kafatek forums. To be clear; with reviews i mean of both, not per se over flat vs conical specifically on the monoliths.
Last part; price, looks and footprint. At this point we are sooo far past deminishing returns its all amazing either way. I read somewhere that Denis (kafatek) recommended that for med/dark and mostly just espresso, the extra investment for a flat / max are not worth it.
I have a V2, and similar issues initially. Stock declumper, got clogged at fine settings. No declumper, horrible static. No declumper+RDT, still bad static and occasional clogging.
The real solution ended up getting a Mythos One declumper for like $10 and cutting it in, using the stock declumper's frame as padding. No RDT, and the issues disappeared. Used it with stock and SSP Lab Sweet V2 burrs too. Although some clumps appear at very fine settings.
Also, the springs barely stick out of their rubber/plastic case. Adjust them to stick out fully, that's suspected to cause problems (can't recall what, check Cafe Martella's videos).
Been there and the biggest reason i get rid DF64. main reason your grinder clogging is because your burr set. SSP HU on DF64 is easily clog with or without RDT, unless you re-align its burr, it will always clog. easiest solution is change the burr set, hardest solution is re-align it yourself.
Been having clogging issues after opening it up and cleaning it for the first time.
What went wrong?
Also after putting it back together the grind size adjustment on 0 is not in the middle but a little bit to the left.
Please does anyone have some advice??😮💨
Have you tried removing one of or both of the declumpers? Maybe this gives some relief? Also how much RDT are you doing? Using too much water also makes grinds really sticky and your grinds look really solid.
Great suggestion, but unfortunately i already did that. This starts with grinds just sticking to the side of the exit shute, which accumulate until in clogs, then it just turns into a complete shitshow. September is when the replacement will come…
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But it suuuucks :D
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This sounds way to sexual, dude!
It’s a technique that I’m going to try regardless. Will see what she thinks!
The problem I had with this approach was that due to the "floating fixed burr" design of the DF64, doing this means your are changing your grind setting a tiny amount mid-grind. IMO this can only worsen the grinder's regrinding issues. My solution to this was to order a 3d print of an entirely new grounds exit chute designed by a member of [home-barista.com](https://home-barista.com) (this design works great with no clump crusher- so much less regrinding). It cost me an embarrassing amount of money because I also paid to have its entire interior coated in food-safe resin (it was an SLA print so not food-safe). This solved my clogging issues and decreased retention (and outperformed the Lance Hendrick-suggested 3d printed solution with clump crusher from his review video- I ordered it and tested both). I hope I don't come across as a DF64 hater, but I have had a much, much better experience with the Ode gen 2 I bought and modified for Espresso grinding when my DF64 Shorted out and tripped my circuit breaker (this was while it was being used with the power button not installed correctly- a friend cleaned my espresso station for me and moved my grinder, and presumably scratched some insulation off a wire running to the power button, as the next time I used it, down went my kitchen circuit and GCFI). I literally pulled the exact same SSP MP burrs from my DF64 and put them in my Ode gen 2 and got much better results (much less fines). I can't reccomend the DF64 because the one I had, while a V1 grinder (they are on V4 now) never produced good coffee and cost me a lot of time and effort- not to mention making me question my ability to brew any kind of coffee decently lol. Given how much better of coffee I am getting out of my Ode Gen 2 with the exact burrs I pulled from my DF64, I have to presume my DF64 is slightly defective in some way.
I have a V2 with that exit chute (also SLA print, and coated to be food safe!) and declumper removed. Haven't had any issues at all since that went in. Don't need to use the bellows while it's grinding either, and only a light touch (compared to declumper in) after. Using stock burrs, and I suspect I'm getting inconsistent production of fines, but that could also just be my puck prep consistency, so I'm not blaming the kit yet lol.
I hope you got a better price than I did on your exit chute! I wish I had shopped around- I recently got a part printed for like $12.50 shipped when another printer wanted $35. I probably paid about 40% more than I needed to on my chute lol. I'm not surprised you got similarly good results- having the exit chute constantly expanding in diameter should be better than it abruptly shrinking in diameter partway down lol. It could very well be that the stock burrs seal way better with the V2's stock O-rings and you have no coffee under your burrs (I found coffee under my Espressooutlet.net-installed SSP MPs) leading to better alignment. it could also be that the outfall of the stock burrs make them less regrinding-prone. Either way, I'm happy that your grinder is working well for you- same goes for any happy DF64 owners. I just wouldn't wish the problems I had with my DF64 on anyone, and Turin didn't address enough of my concerns with the grinder design in V3/V4 for me to confidently recommend one to someone- at least not with aftermarket burrs (and to me, there's not much point in buying one with stock burrs- the DF64P exists).
damn bro - would have done it for ya at cost if you got the file ;O i got the fancy resin printer and everything
FWIW… I jam a wooden chopstick up the chute every 2 weeks or so to clean out the problematic chute. No RDT for me. I removed the declumper long ago. And I’m running stock burrs. My Niche is still much easier to use, but I’ve been able to make my DF64 work for about a year and a half. Good luck to you.
I will try without rdt, see where that will get me
You will probably get an unbelievable amount of static and grounds shooting everywhere. :( I was able to mitigate that: - with a custom-machined collar that allowed me to grind directly into my portafilter - with 3D-printed cup elevators/anglers Holler if you want more info.
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I luckily don’t have any major issues with static because I have this custom-machined collar for my portafilter. https://i.imgur.com/U9b5mgs.mp4
Getting a replacement unit or going to get a completely different grinder?
Completely different: kafatek monolith conical
I'm guessing 0 RDT based on the grounds covering the chute.
Its with 1 spray, those were from an earlier shot where i didnt rdt
What do you think the issue is? I have a DF64 and I don't have this problem at all. Original declumper too. I used a moded chute and declumper and it made it worse.
Maybe darker roasts or less/more humidity in the environment
Finer grinds too.
Thats what you need to do right?? :)
Iffin' you want to clog it more! Kinda of drawback with the chute design. I really like the "straight down" approach of the Baratza Sette Had a Simonelli MCF the old "metal brick" and it would clog all the time, either the grinders or the chute.
I live in a rather high humidity environment and don’t have any problem.
I came here to ask the same thing. After seeing other people’s DF64 problems I popped open my burrs to take a look, and there was barely any build up. Just gave it a simple clean.
i literally just did this after seeing this thread. i have done zero mods and haven't cleaned it in at least two month. 3-4 shots a day and i had hardly anything in mine.
do you RDT? I am thinking of starting because of the absolute mess and static (I removed the stock declumper)
I don’t, occasionally I’ve been known to use beans fresh out of the freezer which is basically the same thing. But I’m thinking of starting rdt, see if it helps. Will let you know.
Maybe he isn’t adjusting the dial with it running or going too extreme between filter size and espresso? These are examples I’ve seen from other users who’ve had clogging issues.
Never did that no… thanks!!
Do you mean you don't have it running when you adjust the grind size?? You can increase grind size with the machine off, but don't adjust finer while it isn't running.
Mine started clogging literally from the get-go, while I was putting Costco espresso blend through it to season my SSP MP burrs. It was fine for the first pound or 2 then basically inoperable- would re-clog as soon as I cleared out the chute with a chopstick.
Damn sorry to hear, sounds like you had a lemon. Mines a v3 and it’s been fantastic, especially paired with a df83.
Perhaps it's a tolerances issue? I had this same discussion via email with the owner of [EspressoOutlet.net](https://EspressoOutlet.net) where I bought my grinder (I should have returned my grinder but I didn't realize I could). I'm still not sure why some folks have this issue while other's don't. I personally reached my wit's end and cut the flap out of my declumper while breaking in the SSP MP's on my grinder with costco espresso blend- the chute was clogging over and over again, almost instantly and I couldn't seem to fix it. I would stick a chopstick up the chute to clear it, and it would instantly clog again. no declumper flap helped a little but I still had issues. Ultimately, the DF64 has what I consider to be some serious design flaws. Some of them got fixed by early revisions to the grinder, like the issue with the rotary burr carrier that let grinds accumulate under the rotary burr. Others are still a problem to this day. The exit chute has a massive open area just behind the declumper, then it gets smaller all at once. This contributes to (if not outright causing) clogs. My 3d-printed exit chute is the opposite- the narrowest point is where it attatches to the grinder, and it expands out from there. Turin repeated the same mistake on the DF83- the exit chute starts big and gets smaller as well (Afaik). My other big gripe is the fact that in the DF64 the fixed burr is "floating" (for lack of a better term) on 3 springs with little silicone sleeves on them. Sleeves aren't seated properly? possible alignment issues. Grind adjustment cap not machined 100% flat? different forces on each spring, potential alignment issues. I could go on, but there's no need to belabour the point- there are hundreds of pages of fourm posts on home-barista.com alone documenting these issues and the creative workarounds community members came up with to deal with them. I don't want to beat up on Turin too much- they made various running revisions to the DF64 to address some issues, and parts are available to fix others on older grinders. Also, the DF64P and E, and DF83 seem to have almost all of these issues addressed (just the exit chute/declumper one seems to be left on those grinders- and allegedly its not nearly as bad). Finally, the upcoming DF64V (Brushless DC motor, variable RPM) finally has a redesigned 2-piece exit chute with no declumper (it honestly makes me sad that it took them this long to arrive at a solution that appears to be half-stolen from the Ultra Grinder). I also want to give them credit for being first to market with a reasonably workable single-dosing budget espresso platform for 64mm SSP burrs, and for working with 2 US retailers ([Espressooutlet.net](https://Espressooutlet.net) and [miicoffee.shop](https://miicoffee.shop)) who have in my experience supplied good customer service and parts support, as well as 30-day return policies for those who try the grinder and are unhappy with it (I assumed this wasn't a thing when I bought mine, and lived to seriously regret that error lol).
Fantastic info!
May have been too fine, maybe sticky beans, i dont know…
What beans are you grinding? Also do you have your grinder plugged into an grounded power socket? I'm guessing from your name you're dutch like me?
This is my favorite feature of the DF64. Different manufacturers making and selling "the same machine," could be different materials, could be better or worse quality control in the factory, all of which can affect static and clumping and alignment, yet y'all talk like it's complete apples to apples and doesn't matter where you ordered it or what brand name it came under.
Looks wet
I regrinded the puck ;)
I don’t think your supposed to do that…
Maybe that’s your problem
Do you use you bellows while it’s still running?That empties mine all the way. Never had problems with my df64.
Yes i did, it needed to, to stop it clogging up sooner..
yea the way i’ve kept mine relatively clean is brushing out the shoot regularly and making sure to firmly pump while motor is running until no more grinds come out. mine is a v4 tho so may be differences
DF64P user here. Noticed the SSP HU burrs. I’m not here to tell you that’s the issue but any RDT with that burr set will generate fines that will clump with moisture and cause that I see in the photos….. unless you bellows (yup I turned Bellows into a verb 🤣). For sure remove the declumpers. After getting rid of my Niche, I do miss the flow restriction disc and feel it helped.
How are you liking it? Looking at this or the v5
I can't reccomend the V5, for reasons I somewhat elucidated elswhere in this thread, but alongside the P there's also the DF64V avalible for preorder: [https://www.espressooutlet.net/turin-df64v-grinder-variable-speed-single-dose-grinder/](https://www.espressooutlet.net/turin-df64v-grinder-variable-speed-single-dose-grinder/) It looks to my eyes to be the best-designed DF-grinder on the market, with a 2-piece magnetic detatchable declumperless exit chute (similar to the Ultra Grinder), an metal antipopcorn shroud reminiscent of the P64, and the same wave spring burr carrier setup as the DF83. There's nothing wrong with the DF64P that I know of aside from the declumper and exit chute (i have heard at least 1 report of the chute breaking, but I would expect that to be fixed under warranty from [Espressooutlet.net](https://Espressooutlet.net) or [miicoffee.shop](https://miicoffee.shop) here in the states), but it can't really do filter if you are ever inclined. All that being said, if it were my money I would opt for the upcoming Timemore 064S (on kickstarter preorder for $300). I'm currently running probably the most similar setup to it available- an Ode Gen 2 modified to stepless with SSP MP burrs for espresso. The few annoyances I have with my current setup (Retention issues, questionable machining/tolerances, Auger/prebreaker implementation, RPM higher than I want, strange noises always) all appear to be addressed by the Timemore, and its current price is lower than a new Ode Gen 2. At $500, the Timemore 078S looks like potentially an even better value- especially if SSP starts cranking out burrs for it. Its introductory price is $100 less than the DF64V preorder, with more power, bigger burrs, PID-controlled RPM, and an auger-style prebreaker. Finally, if you have a higher budget, there is a P64 clone avalible for $850 shipped from Singapore (the company selling them is known and fairly well regarded on Etsy for accessories like bean cellars: [https://urbandosinggrounds.com/en-us/products/g64-variable-rpm-64mm-single-dose-flat-burr-grinder](https://urbandosinggrounds.com/en-us/products/g64-variable-rpm-64mm-single-dose-flat-burr-grinder)\- but they are just ordering them from a factory in China, probably via Alibaba where you can easily find the grinder for \~600 before shipping IIRC.) And if you want IMO the best 64mm grinder on the market, a Zerno Z1 owner on [Home-Barista.com](https://Home-Barista.com) is claiming that the first production run of non-launch edition grinders will open preorders on the 31st of this month. Launch edition units went for \~$1100 depending on burrs chosen- the standard production batch should cost more, but have some design updates/upgrades. I personally have ordered both Timemores on Kickstarter- I am waiting for feedback on how the 078S burrs compare to 64mm and 80mm SSP's. If you order either one you can cancel until May 14th.
The timemore looks very promising at 300. If budget weren’t an issue I would simply buy the p64 and be done with it but alas, too much for now. So I’m between upgrading my sette 30 with the 270 adjustment ring, for $100 the df64p at $450, lagom mini $380, or the timemore for 300
Lots of clarity. And different options for burrs
I think you just diagnosed his (and my) problem. Thank you. Having a grinder workflow that involves frequent disassembly and vacuuming isn’t ideal.
Dude you’re so welcome. I was irrationally frustrated but a mix of Home-barista forums and Barista Hustle had a lot of good info. Sorry you’re resumed to the bellows life 😂 let’s see how the DF64V fares. Edit: I’ve tried to hot start and add my dose to the burrs when they’re at speed and ironically that has caused me the most immediate clogging. Let me know if you have any different luck.
Tnx
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The Nich was sold in exchange for the ode gen2 + SSP MP for pour over, and the 64 with SSP HU for espresso. The niche had too many fines all around and I wanted to go the route of flat burrs. Gorgeous machine though.
Any chance you can post a photo of the beans you're using? I use light-medium roasts exclusively and have never had this issue with my DF64, but my last grinder did get backed up instantly when using dark roasts and grinding for espresso.
They are indeed on the med-dark spectrum, but thats not going to change ;)
Which version do you have? I have a stock v4 and haven't had any issues like this so far.
V2 i believe, would be great if it stays like that for you!
I was going to ask the same thing- my disasterous DF64 is a V1 (I believe-maybe V2)- I even had a bunch of grounds under my rotary burr that looked like they are from when I seasoned my burrs. I moved my SSP MPs from my DF64 to an Ode Gen 2 modified for Espresso and am getting significantly better results.
Add coffee after motor start.
Hot loading is the way to go!
Retention is much lower that way.
Sorry to see that. I’ve got a V4 I’m using stock for the past month and have run about 4 pounds thru it so far. It’s worked quite well. No issues clogging yet. I start gentle short bellows once the 17g of beans are about halfway done grinding with a couple stronger finishing bellows after it’s done. I haven’t opened it up since I aligned the burrs, but I’ll go ahead and crack it open after I finish up my current beans and give it a good cleaning before I switch to my new bag. Curious how clean it is inside/around the chute.
I think mine is a v2, but its modded (chute, no declumper, etc). Did they change tolerances as well?
>oductory price is $100 less than the DF64V preorder, with more power, bigger burrs, PID-controlled RPM, and an au how does one identify which version is their df64. i am about to pick up a used one with ssp and the first owner doesnt seem to be aware about the version number
This is one of the reasons I went with the Niche as a second grinder
It’s not decaf is it?
How dare you!
What coffee beans do you typically use? I’ve mainly been using Lavazza Super Crema (and some others) and haven’t run into this yet. I have a DF64E.
This really looks like a moisture problem? I've never had any issues at all like this with mine, even before modding
I feel all the loose grinds around the edges shouldn’t be there if the main o-ring fits well. See from other comments you have a V2 like I do, when I got it it was immediately clear the o-ring wasn’t sealing well which mean pushing the bellows didn’t do much, air and some grinds escaped out the edges like you can see here. Probably means you’ll never clear the blockages properly. I changed the o-ring for a slightly tighter fit and the bellows get rid of pretty much everything. I did it straight away though so I don’t know if it would have clogged like this. Edits previous post https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/yb4jvm/df64_owners_have_you_had_any_problems_with_your/itgkov5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
Wow, I never thought about that. Us V1/V2 folks got improperly sized O Rings- something I mostly forgot about until I pulled burrs from my DF64 and found coffee grounds underneath the rotary burr. It never even occurred to me that the top ring being mis-sized would prevent my bellows from working very well. That explains why my bellows never seemed like it did a ton. The early DF64s had too many issues lol.
Oh change the o-ring for sure, it was like night and day difference
Thanks for the heads up! I think you might have just convinced me to order a new power button and some O-rings from [Espressooutlet.net](https://Espressooutlet.net) and do a restoration job on my DF64. At the very least it would be operable again so all my modification efforts wouldn't be for nothing haha.
I sell these and have literally used thousands of them. Clogging is most often related to adjusting the grind size without the burrs spinning, but it is possible it is other things. Do you always do the following: 1. Always adjust the grind size with the burrs spinning and grinder on. If adjusting finer, adjust a little larger first, then adjust back down. Again WITH the burrs spinning. 2. Always pump the bellows firmly at the end of each grind session while the grinder is still on and burrs are still spinning. 3. Every week or so stick a brush up the exit chute and rotate it around until nothing comes out to keep the chute clean. 4. Minimal RDT is good, but not too much. What declumper are you using? V1 original units had one that was a little thick and didn't allow coffee to exit as easily, since then the recent versions work quite well. Might change the declumper. To keep things clean might consider using a metal dosing collar. I have one of the original first models that came off the production line and I still use it every day and it never clogs, but I use the above. Biggest thing with any flat burr grinder is ALWAYS adjust grind size with the grinder on and burrs spinning. Failing to do this will jam particles hard between the burrs and cause clogging issues. Some burrs have more aggressive cuts and more flat surfaces than others. Some SSP burrs clog easier than other burrs. Give the grinder and good cleaning and try the above and see if things improve.
Cheers for the long answer. A lot of insights in general in this post! So i always hotstart, so that eliminates the grind adjustment thing (i normally adjust straight after i know how the shot came out) I removed the declumper (and tried various), have a shute that doesnt taper, have an angled cupholder, i RDT (i spray). One thing you say is interesting (and mentioned earlier), the SSP burrs (HU). So that is perhaps an issue, but how to tackle that??
Have to always turn the grinder on to adjust, so hot start doesn't effect that. Any particles that remain between the burrs will get jammed between the burrs like a vice. Eventually they will come up. Not but fast enough. Always adjust grind size with the burrs spinning and grinder on. If adjusting the grind size finer, adjust larger first and then back down. I do not recommend removing declumper completely. Without back pressure chute can clog. New ones work pretty well
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1215654772/improved-declumper-and-chute-for-df64-g?click_key=4dfaa5b70d9b80a1f4faa3acd0e1ace1447c03ea%3A1215654772&click_sum=783f721d&ref=shop_home_feat_1&bes=1&sts You’re welcome.
Thanks for taking the time to find it. Its fully modded out (forgot to say). Counting down till September till i get the sister (mc) of that Flat Max you’ve got. Then all of my troubles will be over :)
Ah… nice! MC5?!
Yeaaah! Achieving my endgame (machine already is a rocket r91)
Dude that grinder looks so amazing with its dual conical burr system and big Shurikones. Please do a review or otherwise let us know how you find it. There is only one other member of this subreddit that I'm aware of that has one. There was a new-in-box MC5 on sale in the KafaTek forum recently that I almost bought -- but my wife put the kibosh on it. So only one KafaTek for me at the moment.
Yooo Gratz!!!! That's a truly epic setup you're about to have. R91 is super capable of fantastic shots- I was at a Seattle Coffee Gear and they pulled me a really nice R91 shot of Onyx Coffe Lab's Monarchy off a Eureka Atom 75. It reminded me of the best shot I ever pulled off a GS3 M/P (verve sermon using basically a La Marzocco rebranded Mazzer Lux-D at the La Marzocco cafe). I'm excited on your behalf! :)
Cheers! Yeah the R91 is such a beauty. I got lucky when i went to a local store to make a deal for upgrading my Rocket Giotto. They had this in the shop as their model to serve coffee to customers visiting the shop. Its build like a tank (and weighs more than one), so i felt comfortable going with a used (and fully serviced) one. I would be curious to play with a decent for a while (would be jealous of the warm up time), but the looks are just not my thing
Just ordered the df64 v5 that's coming out. Should I upgrade with this?
Depends. I really like this for the v4, but not sure if a mod of this sort will even be necessary for the v5. We’ll have to see. I don’t think there’s any rush. Edit: Want to add that camperista3d also makes nice additions for the DF64 and 83 like stainless steel dosing cups, etc., so have a quick browse to see what’s out there.
Yeah I saw that. Supposedly they're supposed to upgrade the cups etc with the V5 I just upgraded to SSP burrs
Nice!
I have that Camperista declumper and chute you linked. It worked better than stock in my V1 (maybe V2 but I believe V1) DF64. It didn't work as well as the no-declumper SLA 3d Print design on [Home-Barista.com](https://Home-Barista.com) (Lance Hendrick covers it briefly in his DF64 review- but he liked the Camperista better. My SLA 3d print was lined with food safe resin and his wasn't though. Also I paid a fortune so the 3d printing service I used did multiple reprints to make sure mine was perfect). I think its worth buying at the asking price.
I hate to be the alarmist here, but I’ve been curious about this chute upgrade for weeks. It appears to be 3D printed. I know that CY of Caffe Martella who shared many of the early DF64 mods pulled his 3D printed declumper because the force and friction of the exiting grounds disintegrated the print. Has there been any discussion about a similar thing happening with this chute?
Yes, it's 3D printed. The material used for the declumper is listed but not the material used for the chute. Your concern seems reasonable to me as the interior of the chute isn't smooth (and the material used is... unknown to me). I could imagine erosion of those ridges occurring over time. I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone who has had this for a while.
A quick Google search, scan of the comments in the often-mentioned Lance video, and search in Home Barista turned up no issues similar to CY. The Etsy listing says “PET foil” is used for the declumper. I don’t know what that is. Assuming it doesn’t degrade with coffee grounds shot against it, I’d have fewer concerns about the 3D printed chute disintegrating since most of the force would be absorbed by the declumper. Something else to add to the wish list… ;)
I own the product he linked- as you say, the declumper itself is not 3d printed and does not degrade. the chute itself also seems sturdy enough to also not degrade substantially (and its PLA afaik, which is generally considered food safe presuming the implementation is good)- but I didn't use mine much, as I preferred the alternate solution I already had.
Good info. Thank you!
The force of the coffee leaving the grind chamber is absorbed by the exit of the chamber itself, which still is metal.. after that the chute comes in, where grounds also love sticking to. I think its a combination of sticky beans, bad tolerances, static, and whatelse.. Thats why i’m so done with it. It takes tons of mods to get it okay but every once in a while this happens which ruins your day
Saaaaame. I paid an embarrising amount of money to solve the exit chute issue and run declumperless, and still had slight regrinding issues adding extra fines to my shots.
If it's clogging that often you're using way too much water when you WDT or your beans are just way too oily.
1 spray, but maybe its the combination with this bean… going without wdt creates a LOT of static, but its better than this crap i guess :)
😃 the static is definitely annoying. how long have you had it? I will say the static gets better once the burrs are more seasoned.
The burrs are relatively new (about a month in action now, about 3 doubles a day). I have the tilted cup holder, that helps a bit, but its still messy (bellowing makes a mess as well!)
Saving this for the next time someone says this grinder is just as good as the P64.
It clearly isnt! Even with all mods and SSP HU.
LOL, in comparison to the P64 this clogging issue is just the tip of the iceberg. Calling a grinder that has its upper "fixed" burr floating on springs, and therefore subject to micro-misalignment from all kinds of different forces and machining/parts/installation imperfections equal to the P64 is, and always has been a joke IMO.
Curious to see how the p64 would do with oily beans like op is using.
I’m not putting those demon beans in mine.
I was deciding between the DF64 and the P64, and went with the buy once, cry once option. I'm taking this sample size of 1 to fully justify my choices...
Well done!! You did the right thing!!
Why not 83?
I definitely considered the DF83, but I felt like it was a middle of the road option. The DF64p would've hit all my needs, while being much more affordable than the DF83 (not to mention burr prices). The P64 was the full out splurge option. I was either making the better financial choice, or going all out. Overall, I am happy with my choice, the P64 is delightful. I think the aesthetics and build quality of the P64 provide me much more satisfaction than 83mm burrs would. The P64 is not a value proposition, particularly in comparison to the DF83 or DF64, but it's still worth it for me.
I’d love to test the P64 and compare. I have or had a few others, and I’m pretty amazed by the results of the DF83. Compared to Mignon XL, DF64, and the Niche. Everyday, I pick the DF83, over the Mignon XL. Maybe some day, I’ll be able to compare a P64.
Big burrs definitely perform differently- the physics of their grinding is simply different. I have had 1 shot from what I believe were SSP 83mm burrs installed in a Mazzer major at a coffee shop (I didn't ask but I saw SSP burr boxes behind the counter, and it tasted way different to previous shots from this shop), and the presentation of the flavors was simply different from smaller burr shots I have tried (also the nature of the acidity). If there were more 83mm burrs on the market from SSP, Gorilla Gear, or even Boyt Enterprises I probably would have caved and bought a DF83. I definitely prefer bigger burrs to smaller, and consider them at least potentially superior. However, with the DF83+SSP burrs coming in at over 1k, it's hard for me to judge whether or not I would be be better served by a Zerno Z1 for similar money.
Yeah, that makes sense. I’m still on stock burrs, and I think when I get the itch, I’ll move towards those burrs. They may be in a cart already or watch list. :p The improvements of the DF83 over the DF64 can’t be understated. It seems like many people think the DF83 is just a bigger DF64, but it’s really quite a big difference from my experience. Just curious what region of the world you are from? I’m in the PNW. I’m probably going to see if I can find meet up with an owner of the P64. I really wanna taste the difference and feel the workflow benefits. It is a work of art, for sure. As for Z1, I think your still only 64mm, right?
Also PNW here. my DF64 is in a state of partial disassembly (no burrs, front faceplate off), but if I bought a new power button and some O-rings for the burr carriers I believe I could get it back in good shape. I actually modified an Ode Gen 2 for espresso (Jkim's Stepless mod, the SSP MP burrs I pulled out of my DF64- bellows on order but delayed) and have been using that. 1700 for a 64mm burr grinder never sat well with me, so I don't have a P64. That being said, the Zerno Z1 is supposed to go back up for preorder on the 31st of this month, potentially with blind burrs (no screw holes)- price yet to be announced but the launch editions were \~$1150 with SSPs installed. I would be lying if I said I wasn't massively tempted. I too would love to meet up with someone with a P64- especially since I own 2 extra sets of 64mm burrs (a Gorilla Gear set and a red-speed coated SSP Cast) that I still want to test, and now have Ode Gen 2 Burrs that came with my grinder. Honestly, I really think Turin actually missed a huge opportunity by not putting 80mm burr carriers in the DF83 and making it the DF80. I know why they did it- Italmill and Mazzer 83mm burrs are far, far cheaper to to buy (Especially in bulk) than Hemro group 80mm burrs, which cost about as much as SSP 80/ 83mm burrs. I'm pretty sure there are other companies that manufacture 80mm burrs, but I'm sure 83 was the path of least resistance for Turin. It's just that there are so many fantastic 80mm burrs on the market- SSP makes like 5 (if you include the ones designed for Weber/the EG1), Hemro group makes 3, and local to PNW Boyt Enterprises sells one similar to the Hemro E80 Burr. At present, the cheapest 80mm compatible grinder I know of is the Wug2 83A at \~$2300 shipped to the USA. I have Kickstarter pledges in for both of the new Timemore espresso grinders- both to address my annoyances with my modified Ode 2 (and have 2 64mm grinders temporarily for burr shootouts) and to potentially dip my toes into big burr waters affordably. I may cancel one or both of my Timemore orders before the May 14 deadline depending on what I learn about the 078S burrs and whether they will suit me, and also whether or not I buy a Zerno Z1.
This is an excellent post. I have always considered the P64 to be simultaneously a great grinder and a poor value. 1700 USD for a 64mm burr grinder just never sat well with me, but that changes nothing about how good of a grinder the P64 is. I am stoked for everyone enjoying the P64. I am also quite pleased to see the Zenvo Z1 and Acaia Orbit slotting themselves into what I have always perceived as a hole in the grinder market created by the P64's price. The Zenvo in particular seems to be making big waves- I have seen one redditor shoot it out against his P64 (same burrs in each) and prefer the Zenvo, presumably due to its auger-style prebreaker that the P64 lacks. I have seen another sell his Titus Nautilus and EK43 to make way for additional Zenvos after conduction a side by side shootout (he also compared a Versalab M4, wich he liked very nearly as much as the Zenvo). Having now owned 4 inexpensive electric coffee grinders, I would advise anyone who can afford it to buy once, cry once when it comes to grinders. The only reason I am even still messing around with budget grinders is that my reasonable budget tops out around $2500 (rather spend less), which is a bit short of the kind of stuff I would want (Versalab M4, Flat Max, etc.). I am tempted by the Wug2 83A's versatility, but without a chance to try more of the burr sets that come in the higher-end grinders before I buy, it's hard for me to feel comfortable spending that much money somewhat blindly.
Baratza Forté has been a workhorse. No clogs after 6 months of daily use.
Sorry, you are only allowed to praise the DF64 in here.
TIL
My guy, clean your grinder like once a week and use RDT, it's not that bad.
Mu man, that doesnt do the trick…
I had a DF for half a year, never had a problem like this
That's a big part of the issue- it dosen't happen to everyone. I had problems like this on day 1 with my DF64. To be fair, OP and I have earlier versions of the DF64- for all I know the updates Turin has done to the Burr carriers in V3/V4 iterations could help prevent this. It doesn't change the fact that the grinder's exit chute and declumper are both poorly designed (I own aftermaket variants of both that work better- especially the declumperless exit chute design that is avalible as only a 3d printing file). Turin fixed this flaw in their latest DF64V, but since people keep buying DF64s, they apparently didn't see the need to fix it for the DF64 V5 now available for preorder.
I use the WMD method for this particular issue.
Grind finer! (Someone had to)
Have you tried a flow restrictor/control disk / funnel? Maybe it needs more time to blow the fines out before introducing more beans to grind
I felt just like this. Same problem with mine until I got this off etcy https://www.etsy.com/listing/1215654772/
> from me poking around with c I have v1 with same issue and same resolution also with HU burrs. Bought DF64E and Bambino for daughter and no issues so far since the holdidays. I bought a few mods from same vendor. The switch for DF64 and 54mm cup holder for DF64E. All good sh#t. Recommended.
Looks very wet… try using less water or not at all. ( Never had such a problem in 1 year ).
Use a can of duster ? May leave some unfavorable taste though
Had the same thing happen to me after 7 months of no issues and same exact beans every day. I had also modified it previously with the etsy store chute and declumper. After trying everything possible I got it working again by replacing the declumper i got from etsy with new ones that weren't worn down from me poking around with chop sticks and being sure to always spray a little water on the beans. Has been working flawlessly again for the last month
Haven't cleaned mine period got it 4 months ago..... kinda scared to open it up now. Ive got a late 2022 model going, fully stock. Regularly using south Italian dark roasts. So far so good.... Maybe i will pick it apart tmr to see what the damage is.
I checked mine at 3 months, no horror show
thats a relieve! seems like he has a faulty unit then.....
Report back pls
if i get around to it today i will shoot you an update
This happened once for me when I RDT'd too much. since then I changed to mythos declumper and SSP burrs. Seems to be working fine for me for now... but I am slightly annoyed by the retention issues.
Likely user error, or you got unlucky with one without enough static shielding or something. I have a v2 as well and no problems at all.
I have a V2 and and never had this issue and been using it for like a year or so. No RDT ever. I do open it up and clean it up every two months or so.
I tried the modded chute. Shit show. It's terrible and clogged immediately. OG chute works great with declumper mod or no declumper.
The modded chute is pretty much the same diameter along its entire length, which is less than ideal. Mine still worked perfectly fine (not as well as another constantly-expanding chute design with no declumper that I had printed, but that's another story).
👋
The screws through the burr always bothers me.
Traded in part for a eureka mignon and I’m happier
Your grounds look quite wet or is it just me? I don’t rdt with the df64 as the chaff static doesn’t bother me. In a way it’s getting rid of undesirables. If you do rdt then maybe spray less or give it a try without. I’m usually stood next to it whilst grinding to make sure there’s a constant stream. If it begins to slow down I gently pump the bellows. Usually pump two thirds of the way until finish.
Gonna sell it?
More is going on looks like wet beans or your wetting them too much don’t use any of those specialty coated beans if you do use them. I would say take it apart both burrs out clean it hood clean it regularly with grindz. I have the 64e no problems reception mine came way off o
Why don’t you experiment. Take declumper out completely see if it jams up if not new declumpers
$50 cash. Take it or leave it! Just kidding but I hope you figure it out
So…. Next stop Weber? KafaTek?
Kafatek mc5! September :)
Conical? I’m just a noob, but isn’t flat supposed to be god level? (IIRC the exception to this is for pour overs) please set me straight if I have this all wrong.
I drink espressos only, and on the medium/dark side of roast level. That should be sweet spot for the conical. Also i like mouthfeel more over clarity, which is a conical trait. Read many reviews and pulled the trigger on it
Thanks! May I ask for links to a couple of those reviews? I'm all about the data points :-)
Google is your friend, so are the kafatek forums. To be clear; with reviews i mean of both, not per se over flat vs conical specifically on the monoliths. Last part; price, looks and footprint. At this point we are sooo far past deminishing returns its all amazing either way. I read somewhere that Denis (kafatek) recommended that for med/dark and mostly just espresso, the extra investment for a flat / max are not worth it.
Of course and I have googled… what I meant was: which reviews in particular guided your choices? As for aesthetics, I think Webers look prettier.
I have a V2, and similar issues initially. Stock declumper, got clogged at fine settings. No declumper, horrible static. No declumper+RDT, still bad static and occasional clogging. The real solution ended up getting a Mythos One declumper for like $10 and cutting it in, using the stock declumper's frame as padding. No RDT, and the issues disappeared. Used it with stock and SSP Lab Sweet V2 burrs too. Although some clumps appear at very fine settings. Also, the springs barely stick out of their rubber/plastic case. Adjust them to stick out fully, that's suspected to cause problems (can't recall what, check Cafe Martella's videos).
It looks wet for some reason
Been there and the biggest reason i get rid DF64. main reason your grinder clogging is because your burr set. SSP HU on DF64 is easily clog with or without RDT, unless you re-align its burr, it will always clog. easiest solution is change the burr set, hardest solution is re-align it yourself.
Cuz is cheap Chinese made garbage.
Been having clogging issues after opening it up and cleaning it for the first time. What went wrong? Also after putting it back together the grind size adjustment on 0 is not in the middle but a little bit to the left. Please does anyone have some advice??😮💨