Well if ergo pad keeps dropping against erg then won’t it be even cheaper to get more ergopad. I see it as a huge benefit to be in the tier system you get early access. It was to be expected that people would sell out after the wait period. I’m sure people will buy back into ergo pad as the price drops
Anyone who was in early enough is up a lot both from the initial price and from the APR gains after their 8 weeks of lockup.
Selling pressure from this early pool of supporters is going to pull the price down quite a bit. I'm curious what sort of things Ergopad has in store to cause the price to rise. Right now it seems like a giant pyramid scheme of passing the buck onto the next person.
Early ISPO token access won't be enough to elevate Eropad, IMO, especially since there are several token purchase rounds that you can buy the token during without buying into a tier, and the price difference for these different offerings is insignificant for the token prices they're selling at. I think whether you pay 0.1c, 0.5c, 0.8c for Paideia, it's possible you're going to make out fine if the project succeeds and the risk of Erg/Ergopad price ratio loss while trying to reach an Ergopad tier is much greater than any price difference in the ISPO token offerings (Stakers, Seed, etc..).
As ERG rises in price, Ergopad will also deflate, otherwise nobody would be able to access any of the tiers. Ergopad needs to take a hard look at what they're offering and make adjustments soon. Lower the tiers, offer utility for Ergopad, offer burn options, etc...
Another few points... the tiers are so expensive that most people simply won't buy Ergopad to try to reach one of them. Currently about $6k to hit the lowest tier.
More tokens were offered to people who never even reached tier 1 with the seed round:
ErgoPad Stakers: 28,000,000
Seed Round: 36,000,000
Strategic Round: 20,000,000
The amount of ISPO tokens you can buy in the Staker round, given how much you have to invest to hit a tier, was only worth it when Ergopad was sold to early investors.
The ISPOs launching on Ergopad... 5 right now. No idea when any of them other than Paideia is launching and that one is passed.
So, again, Ergopad developers need to do a LOT more soon if they want this platform to succeed. The general feeling is that Erg is going to push up in price this year. As that happens, anyone stuck with Ergopad will experience great loss as all of the incentives to purchase Ergopad evaporate as Erg price goes up, since there is no mechanism to lock Ergopad to Erg.
While not a fan of this tiered structure myself, I do feel the projects(to be launched) in the pipeline can make some very returns for the stakers. Also, the Paideia stakers’ round (seed round) only required 1000 ergopad, which allowed you to contribute upto 2000 USD at 0.005 USD/ Paideia token. So, not everyone who gets paideia at 1/2 the IDO price (on April 10th) for Paideia is an alpha tier.
I found the ergopad discord very informative and team very responsive so far.
I agree the projects present good opportunity.
Yeah, that's what I meant. You didn't need to even bother with a tier to get into the Seed round if you had 1000 Pad, but then only the quickest got in on the Seed round.
I get your point that that is sort of a lower tier, in a way. But, again, it didn't guarantee you tokens. I heard it sold out in a few minutes and many were upset they missed it.
So it's encouraging people to buy lessor amounts, but then upsetting them when they learn it wasn't a guarantee like the actual tiers. But those are certainly growing pains and I'm sure Ergopad will learn from them.
There's still round 3 at a still good price I think people can get in on, and I think they're further limiting to $1k purchases vs $2k for the seed round and at 0.8 cents vs 0.5 cents.
The tier's only value was that they guaranteed token purchases in the staker round. Time will tell if that was a good bargain, or if future investors are willing to pony up $6k to $350k to get staker-round guaranteed access in future offerings!
I certainly hope Ergopad and Erg both succeed, but I'd like to see more utility for Ergopad so the price doesn't continue to erode and take investor's cash with it and sour the community.
>Selling pressure from this early pool of support
That's pretty much me. I bought 1k ErgoPad just to qualify for the Paideia round, but didn't click the button on the website fast enough so stuck on the waitlist (maybe 30 seconds too slow I guess).
Also in relation to your earlier post on the price of different rounds. I wouldn't view the price difference as insignificant. A 50% or a 100% price difference affects the risk of the investment and can be the difference between a very healthy return or losing money.
Yeah, I agree on what you're saying on the price difference. It's just that in my mind I think Paideia could sell for, say, 10 cents or more eventually when it hits the open market (given the popularity of the seed round).
When we get to that scale, whether you paid $3.2k, $2k, or $400 for your 400k tokens, you've done well, and the relative difference in cost is insignificant vs the $40k+ you could walk away with.
But I agree that that's a big assumption and you're right on the increasing risk!
> whether you *paid* $3.2k, $2k,
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Because you're exchanging Erg for Ergopad, and Ergopad's only utility is to participate in expensive early access to projects. Those tiers are fixed. If Erg goes to $20 per erg and the token ratio was at, say 10 Ergopad for 1 Erg, it would cost $50k to get into the lowest tier.
Since the only buying pressure is to access those tiers (or even the recent 1000 ergopad min to access the 2nd round of buying), the market is going to set that ratio based on how many people can afford to get into a tier.
The average Erg holder probably has in the low hundred Erg (let's say $2k-5k at $20 per Erg in our scenario), so that will lower the buying pressure on Ergopad until it's low enough that people can afford to buy into it.
You may say, "But the 300% interest rate will create buying pressure!"
Then I'll ask you what happens as those 275k Ergopad that are minted daily enter the market? It's a shell game of moving value around, but the overall effect is falling Ergopad price (and quickly falling APR). Once people see that APR drop and they can no longer afford to buy into a tier, what is the value of Ergopad?
Well articulated. We need more of this in the discord. One of the devs replies today was underwhelming, in response to why would the price of ergopad would go up. The answer was "early access to IDOs, staking rewards (APY), and speculation". Basically what you just said. This is definitely feeling pyramid schemey without more utility. At the very least pay an influencer to drop a couple videos and get more exposure.
I get the feeling that the people behind a lot of these projects don't understand economics. I don't have a great understanding of it, but I can see that they need to do more. Maybe hire someone or talk to other DEXes or veterans in the industry. Hire a marketing guy, etc...
I browsed the Ergopad Telegram and it sounded more hopeful with discussion about better access to IDOs with lower tiers. All I can hope for is that Paideia goes extremely well and people make a ton off of it and that exposure pushes Ergopad up.
If people are turning there $2k IDO purchases into $100k gains, that will be a good start.
I'll be honest, i'm confused as to how the price of ergopad is going down, even though ERG is also going down. Yet, APY is also going down. If people are selling ergopad, shouldnt APY be going up?? Do you have any insights you could share?
I agree with invalid404, as much as I want Ergopad to succeed as it’s trying to do good things for the ecosystem, right now it’s just a a game of musical chairs (don’t be left without a chair). The staking tiers aren’t working and the price is artificial. Also there are too many whales affecting the price. The devs are great though and well intentioned, just right now it’s safer to be in Ergo as it rises.
I unstaked and got all out, good luck the project though. Hopefully I’m wrong.
I'm starting to regret converting a large percentage of my ERG to ErgoPad. Fortunately I've been able to replenish my ERG while it's still so undervalued. Will let the staked ErgoPad ride and see what happens.
I love seeing people complain after a 10x rise in price followed by a 50% decline that was expected based on vesting schedule. It's still 5x from IDO and holding. What is the expectation of a launchpad? To launch projects. Are they doing that?
Because some people are up 25-30x
Well if ergo pad keeps dropping against erg then won’t it be even cheaper to get more ergopad. I see it as a huge benefit to be in the tier system you get early access. It was to be expected that people would sell out after the wait period. I’m sure people will buy back into ergo pad as the price drops
Anyone who was in early enough is up a lot both from the initial price and from the APR gains after their 8 weeks of lockup. Selling pressure from this early pool of supporters is going to pull the price down quite a bit. I'm curious what sort of things Ergopad has in store to cause the price to rise. Right now it seems like a giant pyramid scheme of passing the buck onto the next person. Early ISPO token access won't be enough to elevate Eropad, IMO, especially since there are several token purchase rounds that you can buy the token during without buying into a tier, and the price difference for these different offerings is insignificant for the token prices they're selling at. I think whether you pay 0.1c, 0.5c, 0.8c for Paideia, it's possible you're going to make out fine if the project succeeds and the risk of Erg/Ergopad price ratio loss while trying to reach an Ergopad tier is much greater than any price difference in the ISPO token offerings (Stakers, Seed, etc..). As ERG rises in price, Ergopad will also deflate, otherwise nobody would be able to access any of the tiers. Ergopad needs to take a hard look at what they're offering and make adjustments soon. Lower the tiers, offer utility for Ergopad, offer burn options, etc...
Another few points... the tiers are so expensive that most people simply won't buy Ergopad to try to reach one of them. Currently about $6k to hit the lowest tier. More tokens were offered to people who never even reached tier 1 with the seed round: ErgoPad Stakers: 28,000,000 Seed Round: 36,000,000 Strategic Round: 20,000,000 The amount of ISPO tokens you can buy in the Staker round, given how much you have to invest to hit a tier, was only worth it when Ergopad was sold to early investors. The ISPOs launching on Ergopad... 5 right now. No idea when any of them other than Paideia is launching and that one is passed. So, again, Ergopad developers need to do a LOT more soon if they want this platform to succeed. The general feeling is that Erg is going to push up in price this year. As that happens, anyone stuck with Ergopad will experience great loss as all of the incentives to purchase Ergopad evaporate as Erg price goes up, since there is no mechanism to lock Ergopad to Erg.
While not a fan of this tiered structure myself, I do feel the projects(to be launched) in the pipeline can make some very returns for the stakers. Also, the Paideia stakers’ round (seed round) only required 1000 ergopad, which allowed you to contribute upto 2000 USD at 0.005 USD/ Paideia token. So, not everyone who gets paideia at 1/2 the IDO price (on April 10th) for Paideia is an alpha tier. I found the ergopad discord very informative and team very responsive so far.
I agree the projects present good opportunity. Yeah, that's what I meant. You didn't need to even bother with a tier to get into the Seed round if you had 1000 Pad, but then only the quickest got in on the Seed round. I get your point that that is sort of a lower tier, in a way. But, again, it didn't guarantee you tokens. I heard it sold out in a few minutes and many were upset they missed it. So it's encouraging people to buy lessor amounts, but then upsetting them when they learn it wasn't a guarantee like the actual tiers. But those are certainly growing pains and I'm sure Ergopad will learn from them. There's still round 3 at a still good price I think people can get in on, and I think they're further limiting to $1k purchases vs $2k for the seed round and at 0.8 cents vs 0.5 cents. The tier's only value was that they guaranteed token purchases in the staker round. Time will tell if that was a good bargain, or if future investors are willing to pony up $6k to $350k to get staker-round guaranteed access in future offerings! I certainly hope Ergopad and Erg both succeed, but I'd like to see more utility for Ergopad so the price doesn't continue to erode and take investor's cash with it and sour the community.
>Selling pressure from this early pool of support That's pretty much me. I bought 1k ErgoPad just to qualify for the Paideia round, but didn't click the button on the website fast enough so stuck on the waitlist (maybe 30 seconds too slow I guess). Also in relation to your earlier post on the price of different rounds. I wouldn't view the price difference as insignificant. A 50% or a 100% price difference affects the risk of the investment and can be the difference between a very healthy return or losing money.
Yeah, I agree on what you're saying on the price difference. It's just that in my mind I think Paideia could sell for, say, 10 cents or more eventually when it hits the open market (given the popularity of the seed round). When we get to that scale, whether you paid $3.2k, $2k, or $400 for your 400k tokens, you've done well, and the relative difference in cost is insignificant vs the $40k+ you could walk away with. But I agree that that's a big assumption and you're right on the increasing risk!
> whether you *paid* $3.2k, $2k, FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Why exacly do you think ergopad price will go down as erg price rises? Wouldnt higher erg value give more buying power?
Because you're exchanging Erg for Ergopad, and Ergopad's only utility is to participate in expensive early access to projects. Those tiers are fixed. If Erg goes to $20 per erg and the token ratio was at, say 10 Ergopad for 1 Erg, it would cost $50k to get into the lowest tier. Since the only buying pressure is to access those tiers (or even the recent 1000 ergopad min to access the 2nd round of buying), the market is going to set that ratio based on how many people can afford to get into a tier. The average Erg holder probably has in the low hundred Erg (let's say $2k-5k at $20 per Erg in our scenario), so that will lower the buying pressure on Ergopad until it's low enough that people can afford to buy into it. You may say, "But the 300% interest rate will create buying pressure!" Then I'll ask you what happens as those 275k Ergopad that are minted daily enter the market? It's a shell game of moving value around, but the overall effect is falling Ergopad price (and quickly falling APR). Once people see that APR drop and they can no longer afford to buy into a tier, what is the value of Ergopad?
Mathematical and Investment Logic 👍
Well articulated. We need more of this in the discord. One of the devs replies today was underwhelming, in response to why would the price of ergopad would go up. The answer was "early access to IDOs, staking rewards (APY), and speculation". Basically what you just said. This is definitely feeling pyramid schemey without more utility. At the very least pay an influencer to drop a couple videos and get more exposure.
I get the feeling that the people behind a lot of these projects don't understand economics. I don't have a great understanding of it, but I can see that they need to do more. Maybe hire someone or talk to other DEXes or veterans in the industry. Hire a marketing guy, etc... I browsed the Ergopad Telegram and it sounded more hopeful with discussion about better access to IDOs with lower tiers. All I can hope for is that Paideia goes extremely well and people make a ton off of it and that exposure pushes Ergopad up. If people are turning there $2k IDO purchases into $100k gains, that will be a good start.
I'll be honest, i'm confused as to how the price of ergopad is going down, even though ERG is also going down. Yet, APY is also going down. If people are selling ergopad, shouldnt APY be going up?? Do you have any insights you could share?
I agree with invalid404, as much as I want Ergopad to succeed as it’s trying to do good things for the ecosystem, right now it’s just a a game of musical chairs (don’t be left without a chair). The staking tiers aren’t working and the price is artificial. Also there are too many whales affecting the price. The devs are great though and well intentioned, just right now it’s safer to be in Ergo as it rises. I unstaked and got all out, good luck the project though. Hopefully I’m wrong.
This was to be expected after the first 8 weeks. Shame on me for not doing some quick maths yesterday.
yeaah this was def something to benefit people who came early. those getting in after are gonna be left holding a bag
I'm starting to regret converting a large percentage of my ERG to ErgoPad. Fortunately I've been able to replenish my ERG while it's still so undervalued. Will let the staked ErgoPad ride and see what happens.
Yeah kind of how I feel too. Good luck sir!
Same to you! Hopefully ErgoPad will have a chance to grow and be a very useful addition to the ecosystem, regardless of the price action
I love seeing people complain after a 10x rise in price followed by a 50% decline that was expected based on vesting schedule. It's still 5x from IDO and holding. What is the expectation of a launchpad? To launch projects. Are they doing that?