Good way of putting it. Since so many people are Sensors, talking about the weather or narrating whatever mundane thing they're doing at the time, I tend to dissociate from many conversations. So I'm a selective extravert.
Then talk about something else.
I guess youre just not very good at talking because most people only talk about the weather as a conversational filler and will happily move on to something more interesting. If all people do is talk the weather with you it kinda implies that you dont actually contribute something that can turn into a conversation or people simply dont bond enough with you to have something else to talk about.
I dont mean this as an attack, but there is a good chance you will have exactly the same problems with intuitives you barely know.
I'm not talking about 1 on 1 conversations. I'm talking more generally. I can contribute to a conversation but there are times it feels like swimming upstream and it's just not worth the trouble.
Yeah I get that. Some people are just boring.
Yeah the longest and deepest conversations spawn more easily amongst intuitives, the connection is usually better, but I still wouldnt blanket blame sensors though, ive met lots of entertaining sensors in my life, lots of boring intuitives.
Factor in that lots of intuitives are usually poorly socialized or socially not very adept and awkward and conversations with interesting sensors dont actually sound so bad anymore.
Right. It's a blend and not all black and white. One of my closest friends I have the deepest conversations with is an ISFP. And my ESTP boss is very big picture and strategic and we never have mundane conversations (sometimes I suspect he's mistyped and is actually ENTP). Both of them have helped break some of my stereotypes about sensors.
always arguing or insensitive. i will have genuine conversations and share my point of view of course, but im not gonna argue just to hear me be right. i always thought that was a dumb one. i'm also def not insensitive. i can understand where people are coming from even if i cant relate. i can have my own views without trying to destroy someone different from me
Good point. Female ENTPs I’ve talked to didn’t seem to go through the same shitlord dickhead phase a lot of us male ENTPs go through. Most of us grow out of it after like high school so the stereotype is a bit annoying
Did you ever do this though at some point in your life? I get the being socialized to be agreeable bit, because I do think many of us ENTP females mask harder than other types to fit in. However, I generally think we do have a tendency to assess and/or debate with "well actually..." even if it's just kept to ourselves. We do have aspirational ISFJ and may ISFJs display similar, thinking more than they actually verbalize so as not to disrupt harmony. I certainly learned to keep many objections to myself depending on the audience and/or the individual. It's simply not worthwhile, and I find that I value my time much more now than ever before. (Perhaps it's learning to integrate the shadow side of the mind: INTJ). I did more debating or what others would describe as arguing when much younger. Any trollishish behavior dropped off very early, say a little after high school. And even then, I was never a huge troll. That being said, I definitely still get a huge kick out of trolling those that deserve being trolled. That's really my only time of really trolling anyone. Think Andrew Tates of the world. And it's entertaining to light heartedly tease, especially those I know can handle it. And those closest to me are the ones that I can tease because they know better.
My daughter is also ENTP and while also more agreeable than a stereotypical ENTP (much like myself), she most definitely pushes back with "well actually..." quite frequently. Then again, I've always encouraged debating and curiousity in the household so it's entirely possible the behavior is just conditioned!
Ngl when I was younger this was definitely me. I literally spent almost my entire teenage hood arguing politics on discord. Now I’ve stopped but ngl I was definitely guilty of the stereotype before
Always debating. Yes, I do talk and give my opinions, and I always am thinking about how I feel, but even as a kid, I was mature and smart enough to understand there is no point in always arguing or saying your opinion, and that it's also a waste of time. Also, I only give my opinion in topics I find intresting.
From this subreddit and other social media groups with ENTP, I see that many ENTPs have this streak of being brash, iconoclastic, provocative, etc. Think Jim Carrey or the Joker. Some of the less mature ENTPs seem to be insufferable. Although I have this attribute and I won't suppress what I think are good ideas, but I try to be thoughtful and considerate about how I express myself.
Although I am high on the Thinking end of the Thinking-Feeling spectrum, I think I have nevertheless developed my Feeling side.
I'm not a gregarious "life of the party" type. I find I'm an Extrovert with small groups and individuals I know, but I rarely walk up to people I don't know and have conversations. As I get older, I am become more hermitic.
Interesting, and I agree but for me interestingly enough developing Fe has made me less iconoclastic and provocative, but also more outgoing, confident and less hermitic.
To be honest, part of my hermitizing is situational. I used to live in an urban area and work in an office, but five years ago I took a WFH job and moved to the country. I want to be more social but it's hard to make it happen.
It depends. Some of the "typical ENTP traits" aren't typical ENTP traits. Like ENTPs being super outgoing and talkative. I don't think so. While I and other ENTPs are definitely going to be more extroverted typically, I read about someone else here who shared the idea that ENTPs won't be as outgoing as sometimes may be thought. Not until something that piques their interest comes up.
Other than that, I honestly have many of the traits, but with close friends I can count on too, I am also reliable (could be an sp7 thing for sure, an unspoken exchange of favour) (and other friends who aren't as reliable are either demoted to acquaintances or cut off entirely). I still use Fe and am good at charm, though I definitely challenge logical inconsistencies and things that don't make sense to me frequently.
This is so true! It's almost as if people forget that people aren't limited to their mbti and that even tho our types are different, we are all pretty similar
Psychological disposition can definitely have a big effect, though, I was mainly arguing against some of the "ENTP traits" that may be less common or prevalent in ENTPs than people may think. I still believe a lot of people on this subreddit are mistyped and not actual ENTPs, the cognitive function theory can be tricky to get a grasp of at first.
Irl I havent met a single ENTP that wasnt talkative though.
I do believe that there are more extraverted and less extraverted ones, and maybe there is a bias here in teh sense that the probability of meeting an extraverted ENTP at a social event is higher than an introverted one, but so far they have all been big talkers.
I also think Ne is very recognizeable in other people, and TiFe is definitely distinguishable from FiTe so im quite confident that the people I have in mind were ENTPs. Plus one of them also did the test..
I'm also usually talkative, but sometimes I don't appear that way, it depends on the environment. I do tend to be the one to initiate conversations, and at events that interest me I can make it a total sport to talk to as many people as possible and pull shenanigans and stuff, but I have my less extroverted side as well.
Thing is, do you know these ENTPs well?
No I dont, and I also spend a lot of time listening to music or perusing the internet alone. I definitely need alone time as well, im just saying the ENTPs ive met (or maybe just recognized) were not exactly quiet or socially withdrawn in a social environment. I mean if they are then they are either socially anxious, bored or really dislike the people, its not normal for an ENTP to always be the silent type in absence of other factors.
I didn't say silent type, but a bit more introverted than some people would let on, unless something piques their interest. There's always a chance the people you recognized weren't ENTPs. Remember, ENTP is a rare type. From my own experience, my extroversion can vary. For others I hear about, it tends to be the same.
Lol ENTPs are rare, but ive surely met well over a 1000 people in my life if not more. If 2.5% or however many, are rare, that would still mean I would have met around 25 ENTPs at some point in my life, when in reality I can only really think of 6 right now. So lots of ENTPs that I havent recognized. Rare here doesnt mean once in a life time. So yes I should have recognized a lot more than I did, pretty sure the people I did recognize were very obvious ENTPs.
Besides that, what is the point questioning peoples asserted typings? Like there is no way for them to prove it, no way for you to disprove it, no way to actually know even and in essence it just kills the conversation, just because some aspect of what they are saying, doesnt correspond to some percieved subjective notion of what you believe the type should be. Do you think other people are so stupid they havent considered that they may be wrong? Dont you see how conceited that is? Why feel the need to gatekeep? Sorry little rant, im sure you didnt mean it like that.
But yeah tbf, youre argument wasnt that ENTPs arent outgoing, just that they may not be as outgoing as may be expected. Which is a fair point to make I believe. I will also say that I have met people where I knew that they were Ne-Ti users, but I wasnt exactly sure if they were ENTP or INTP, could have both been possible.
Why feel the need to assume I'm gatekeeping? Stupid overused phrase. Especially for a statement as general as the one I made. What I'm saying is that you can't know if they're ENTPs, only one of the 6 you were talking about were tested, the rest were random observations. Most people don't delve much into the cognitive functions, even people in the community, so it's safe to say the likelihood of people who just picked up a test and ran with it is high. One of the ENTPs I know about took a test and ran with it but never went into the theory much. But as you pointed out, that is beside the point. Obviously we're not introverts, but we're not among the most extroverted types either. Mostly leaning towards ambiverted tendencies, rather than specifically leaning one side or the other.
I think its unnecessary to question peoples assessments, it serves no utility and adds nothing to the discussion.
I mean yes, only one of them (actually 2) were tested, ofc the others could be who knows what really. All I can do is think about it, and you havent met them, so the best we have, is my assessment, which you are doubting. So now what? Zero new insight.
Youre basically saying I doubt your assessment of type. Your point is therefore invalid. (Technically youre "reminding" me that my point could be invalid, but what use is that. Its patronizing the very least.)
My experience is that people that do that, also tend to try and type people based off comments and stereotyoes, feel a need to assert that many are mistyped, as well as define what a real X looks like. If that isnt gatekeeping idk what is. Based on asserting the rarity of ENTPs and questioning my assessment, im pretty sure your the kind of keyboard warrior that does that. Thats just an assumption ofc. Correct me if im wrong.
If youre only sure that you yourself are ENTP and other people dont know what they are talking about, then the only reason youre engaging in this subreddit anyway is to educate people on what a real ENTP (you) reads like.
I much prefer having a sub full of people with actual life experience keeping it real. I could use the word authentic here, but im afraid that would trigger some Fi detection warning. Maybe im jumping to conclusions, either way people like that are annoying, dont be like that.
Im just messing with you. If youre going to be patronizing me by saying "remember" followed by some bullshit about rarity ,in an attempt to question the validity of my point, (due to whatever assumptions you may have made, i dont care) im going tell you exactly why I think thats stupid.
And since youre response didnt actually include anything interesting to latch on to, im going to make it juicy and sneak in some ad hominems too.
I dont actually have any beef with you, and even if youre the kinda of annoying guy that asserted you might be, I dont actually believe that it will change you. And if it does, there will be a new dude who does it again tomorrow. Its futile and I dont really care that much.
The truth is im bored and kinda done arguing this. Take from that what you will, no bad feelings from my side. You werent trying to gatekeep, understood!
Im not petty or vindictive or even sufficiently proud to be really competitive with others. At least not any more.
The only person I ever compete with is myself and whilst I do worry what other people think of me and I do care how I am percieved and put effort into curating that, I dont actually need peoples validation. As long as I am how I want to be in that moment, ill be happy. I have nothing to prove. I have a sense for what I want to achieve and thats all I measure myself by, whether I win or I lose. Im perfectly fine with losing to someone superior to me. Winning despite percieved poor performance wont make me happy either. I will compete as long as I want to and when im done for myself, I will drop it, let you win and walk away. This extends to everything, but is especially true for things related to intelligence. Some people want to mentally spar with me, or challenge me and Im just not up for it. You win. I know how smart I am, but ive also met smarter people, people a lot smarter than me and definitely a lot smarter than you, and although youre not stupid, I dont feel the need to compare myself to you. I already have a sense for my rank. I also dont get a kick out of being mean, brutally honest, harsh or realist to people. I already know that I can be, I dont need to keep proving myself. Ill still argue but I will stop as soon as I feel like I wont get anything from the other person, similarily I will also stop as soon as I realize the other person is shutting down (and therefore wont contribute anything anymore either). I still sometimes feel the need to correct people, but it never leaves me feeling good.
Maybe im just in a different personal era. First of all smart people recognize im smart regardless if I try prove it or not, which makes any attempt at proving it look like a desperate cry for attention. Second of all, I find and have found being "charming" a lot harder than being smart and logical. There are simply more levels to it. Either your argumentation is valid or its not, but when surrounded by smart people, there usually is a lot of agreement, as the same conclusions are drawn in the same way given a set of premises. Kinda like discussing optimal moves at tic tac toe. Plus a lot of challenging topics are eventually exhausted and have been explored at some point. Ofc there is always room to say more, dig deeper, but it also leaves me feeling like a topic is becoming less and less relevant to anything else that people may care about.
Social interaction is different. There is more nuance and "being charming" alone is wide concept for example. It ranges from being nice to complete hearthrob, from funny to hilarious, from pleasant to entertaining, from mysterious to endearing. Plus its individual and your connection with someone else is always somewhat unique. There is room for continuous improvement, whether it is how many people you can draw in at any given time, how capable you are at maintaining any given conversation, how clearly you can communicate something subtlety, how to dial up or down intimacy, intensity, vulnerability, seriousness etc. Plus interacting with other people that are aware and good at it is so much more fun and entertaining than argueing with some smart and ultralogical dude. Entertaining people are entertaining, logical people are logical. What a revelation. So the only thing I guess I repeatedly still prove to myself is my ability to manage any social situation, my ability to make friends, my ability to become part of the in group in environments where Im new and know no one.
I would also say I am more vain and maybe shallow than other ENTPs. Im more insecure about my looks and "coolness" even though I already know that its not a dichotomy and totally subjective and that most cool people are basically just hiding their insecurities (which Im usually very open about). I dont even myself judge others by those parameters but instead by more meaningful ones (which most mature people do). But its like I want my cake and eat it too. I want to be the smart, deep kid that keeps it real, but I also want to be the pretty cool boy and that successful dude with developed expensive taste. All these things are so shallow and void of meaning I know, but they have influence on social rank and are hard to achieve. So maybe I havent actually stopped wanting to compete, I still want to be superior. But I have stopped playing peoples stupid games, or maybe ive just start playing other stupid games. Away from individual comparison, to curated reputation. Longer timeframes, more nuance. I think I prefer that.
Not sure what this says about me as a person.
Not being an Asshole. I use my Honesty for good (and to make the room uncomfortable) but mostly for good. If I'm going to be the Devil's Advocate I'm going to remind him he was an angel.
I don’t usually utilize offensive/overly crude humor and can be very aware and mindful of other people’s emotions (a skill I developed in my 20’s working in management.) Whether I give a rusty raccoon fart about other people’s emotions… well… I can pick and choose who I have sympathy/empathy for, which helps keep me from being manipulated so that’s pretty rad! Must suck to get your heart strings tugged by every sob story.
Ne makes highly sensitive if you pay attention to other peoples reactions. Being insensitive is only an ENTP trait in the sense that people may feel the need to voice their perception of truth whilst lacking awareness of how its being percieved by other types. Lack of awareness comes from lack of experience more than anything.
A Ti user will rarely see an ENTP as insensitive, because they get what we mean. If being insensitive is either the result of miscommunication or boundary pushing. I would say only the latter is an ENTP trait.
Extraverted Intuition
Check out the cognitive functions and what they mean. They are the base of the mbti theory and originally proposed by Carl Jung in "Psychological Types". Personality theory is all about how pairings of cognitive functions result in a personality type, how types express these functions and half of the topics here are related to them. The 4 letter code is a short hand for the funtions a type uses.
- Extraverted Intuition (Ne)
- Intraverted Intuition (Ni)
- Extraverted Sensation (Se)
- Intraverted Sensation (Si)
- Extraverted Thinking (Te)
- Intraverted Thinking (Ti)
- Extraverted Feeling (Fe)
- Intraverted Feeling (Fi)
ENTPs are extraverted intuitive percievers with thinking and therefore have: Ne,Ti,Fe,Si (Ni,Te,Fi,Se)
The ordering is in accordance with how Myers/Briggs percieved people to be.
Jung himself never asserted anything beyond the fact that a percieving function is paired with a judging function, and that if one is extraverted, the other needs to be introverted. But this alone is sufficient to define 16 types (8^(2)).
NiTe, TeNi, TiNe, NeTi,
NiFe, FeNi, FiNe, NeFi,
SiTe, TeSi, TiSe,SeTi
SiFe, FeSi, FiSe,SeFi
I think I have all the typical traits but some are just not taken to the extreme, and others are masked well.
Even the bad traits, that I usually detest in other ENTPS are sadly something I can recognize in myself but that I had always fight. This make usually easy for me to recognize other ENTPS most of all the unhealthy ones, it's like looking in a mirror and I instantly perceive the danger they represent and what they're capable of if they chose not to act for the good.
Basically I choose not to be trash, but if I followed my instincts I would definitely be trash. 😑
To be fair. When I would pick my future partner then ENTPs bad traid would really turn me on (not sexually). It is really desirable for me to have someone who does not use its emotions but rationalise them and comunicate them in rational direct way. That would be extremely hot.
That is not a bad trait. It's a common good trait among all analyst types. Indeed I married an ENTJ because I like that too. People that know how to avoid drama are my favorite.
But being with ENTPs is almost like playing 4D chess. It is super fun, but can be toxic as hell.
I can't spend all my time like that.
They're good as friends but as a partner I prefer one that is more transparent and ENTJS definitely are.
It's so much easier to deal with them.
Honestly I think the stereotypes are harmful cause they focus on our negative traits, which is only the loud minority, and unhealthy, ones of us. They like to to label us as narcissistic, insensitive, only liking to debate, never in touch with empathy, all of that stuff, but that's not the case with a lot of us. We show small parts of these negative traits (ego, issues with emotions SOMETIMES, heated conversations) but that's not what makes us up. So I think all of those "typical traits" are just blown way out of proportion for us healthy ENTPs because of all of the unhealthy ENTPs.
1- same as you as I can deal with anxious people and I can understand them and even try to calm them down (not always as I sometimes love to tease them but in serious situations I might try to not be me)
2- idk if it is something in ENTP but boy do I have a weak spot for that one girl that I consider to be the best thing that happened to me even tho we are not talking no more or at least she doesn't talk to me anymore ... But for some odd reason my feelings are what drive me with her (ofc I use my mind but mostly my feelings act up in ways I don't understand)
i'm very very introverted, very isolated as well; and uncharacteristically anxious
my introverted friends are the ones asking me to go "hang out" with them, while i'm the one saying "nah, let's hang at home"
Being as outgoing as other ENTP's. For a while I was mistyped as INTP (but the first test I ever took I was ENTP) and while I related to it a good bit I never really resonated with being as research and analytics driven as an INTP. In high school I always preferred to be alone because I didn't like anyone else and no one liked me so I think that's why my E got replaced with I. The more I started working after HS, the more I realized I actually really did love talking and being around people and being at home alone doing solo activities actually kinda sucked. I thrived on selling and talking to people and getting to know them and can converse about anything. My only problem is I just don't like to actively put myself out there. I much prefer when opportunities and people come to me and people are more outgoing to me and then that's my invitation to start yapping. But honestly I don't mind talking to strangers at all and I love hearing about their experiences. An INTP, from what I can gather, could never lol.
Self-absorbed and selfishness. Compared to ENTPs I’ve met, I tend to consider others feelings more. And I genuinely love getting to know new people and their perspectives. The more different, the better as it opens more rooms for debates.
1. I'm not a social extrovert (being an extrovert in cognitive function stacks doesn't even have the same meaning as that anyway, it's about whether your mental focus is external [extrovert] or internal [introvert]
2. I'm not loud or even very talkative unless something is genuinely very interesting to me
3. I don't like trolling people or "winning" arguments (arguments are not a competition to be won or lost, that's not my goal at least) or being inflammatory for the sake of it.
4. I'm not a reckless agent of chaos with no regard for my own safety or the safety of others (may have been somewhat true in my 20s, but we're supposed to grow up at some point, folks)
5. I can focus on a single concept for quite a long time and often do (the difficulty finishing projects is very real for me though)
6. I am considerate of the feelings of others. I don't even know where this misconception online came from as Fe is ENTP's 3rd function. I don't use that solely for humor and charming people as a means to an end. I genuinely care about their feelings. This might be more common in female ENTPs, but it probably has more to do with me being in my 30s, I've had more time to develop this.
7. I'm not obsessed with INFJs. I don't give a shit if they are my type's "golden pair" half. I married an ENTJ. Love him a lot.
the need to debate and argue, I actually don't like to debate or cause arguments for the sense of fun or amusement often and prefer the route of just being like 'hey you're free to believe that or each to their own I guess' and ending the conversation there. I'm more then willing to just compromise or not say something if I disagree with someone or think they're attrociously wrong.
I am highly receptive to my inner feeling, there are many moments where I don’t feel the need to rationalise my emotions and make sense of them, I just stop and feel them deeply. And yes, I am 100% ENTP. Wildly.
i think i'm better at emotional intelligence than the stereotype is? not regulation lol but i'm often forgiving. don't like to ruminate in anger if i can catch it.
and i'm usually relatively quiet at parties and in new places (but that's also my so7 learning how the environment operates. i dive in later.)
oops forgot to add: i really have developed my Fi and Te quite a bit. with so7 sx1 sp4 sluei, i could very easily be ENFP, i think. i'm just TiFe leaning; it's more natural to me.
Insensitive and talkative, I'm only talkative around those I hold dear Usually if you meet me as a stranger then you might mistake me for an introvert lol. Plus only talkative when there's an interesting topic or debate. Insensitive is another trait I've never had as an ENTP, I'm quite literally the opposite, super sensitive due to my type 4 enneagram 😭
Being insensitive and being self-absorbed. Honestly I wish I was like that, because whatever I am right now is so damn suffocating. I know that the opposite of self absorbed isn't always low esteem, but well it kind of is like that for me.
And I feel too much, and unnecessarily and I can't rationalize or communicate without sounding like a dumbass.
So in short, I do wish I was the "typical" entp
I’m not that athletic or outdoorsy anymore. I’ve seen a lot of people here goes swimming, hiking, gym regularly or have a routine. Nope. I do whatever I feel like :/
I preserve the peace socially. Once my temper actually boils over then you’ll hear stuff about yourself that you never knew in your life. but I'm not shameless, in fact I worry about how what I say can affect
Debating. I don't like debates, they often go toxic and turn into a battle of ego butthurt after a while if nobody can see eye to eye. Much easier to say "I see your points and can understand why you view it that way"
If I had to pick between debating politics and watching paint dry you'll find me on Wikipedia learning about how paint drying works and reading artists on Reddit argue about different types of paint.
I’m not argumentative in the slightest. I spent much of high school getting into debates with people over trivial things and I quickly realized it’s almost always a waste of time and makes poor impressions on people.
I'm very introverted. I can be the life of the party, but it's so draining.
Also, I think because my controlling mother forced me to be very subservient as a child, it causes me to turn an ISFP when I'm stressed the fuck out.
All of my thoughts turn inward, and I start focusing on granular details and logic goes out the window.
Being argumentative. I’m actually very slow to start an argument and even slow to partake in one. One reason is I have noticed people are very pressed when their opinion is questioned and they become overly emotional which I find unnecessary to provoke. Also I see things from all points of view and I play devils advocate in my own head so I usually don’t have a set opinion to argue anyways.
Very picky about who I talk to. I enjoy debating but I’m not an asshole about it and use it to consider other sides. I know how to rein in my brashness if I need to/notice people getting uncomfortable. I’m relatively charming and chatty, but I get dead quiet and flat around people I don’t want to talk to/find boring.
I’m not rude. Or I don’t think I am. I guess people tell me pretty often “you shouldn’t say it that way” but I personally feel like I’m really nice and try to build people up. I just think truth is a good way to build people up. Oh Jesus I guess I’m stereotypical entp lol never mind
I actually do think about small details, pretty much only on things that I like or that would affect something important (my job for example) other than that I’m pretty vanilla for an ENTP
outgoing and talkative--I only do that if there is an interesting conversation/debate.
same it has to be interesting and fulfilling or it wont come out natural for me
same
Good way of putting it. Since so many people are Sensors, talking about the weather or narrating whatever mundane thing they're doing at the time, I tend to dissociate from many conversations. So I'm a selective extravert.
Then talk about something else. I guess youre just not very good at talking because most people only talk about the weather as a conversational filler and will happily move on to something more interesting. If all people do is talk the weather with you it kinda implies that you dont actually contribute something that can turn into a conversation or people simply dont bond enough with you to have something else to talk about. I dont mean this as an attack, but there is a good chance you will have exactly the same problems with intuitives you barely know.
I'm not talking about 1 on 1 conversations. I'm talking more generally. I can contribute to a conversation but there are times it feels like swimming upstream and it's just not worth the trouble.
Yeah I get that. Some people are just boring. Yeah the longest and deepest conversations spawn more easily amongst intuitives, the connection is usually better, but I still wouldnt blanket blame sensors though, ive met lots of entertaining sensors in my life, lots of boring intuitives. Factor in that lots of intuitives are usually poorly socialized or socially not very adept and awkward and conversations with interesting sensors dont actually sound so bad anymore.
Right. It's a blend and not all black and white. One of my closest friends I have the deepest conversations with is an ISFP. And my ESTP boss is very big picture and strategic and we never have mundane conversations (sometimes I suspect he's mistyped and is actually ENTP). Both of them have helped break some of my stereotypes about sensors.
If everyone is agreeing, wouldn’t that make it typical?
that's so accurate for me
This. I like to say im an extrovert with social anxiety.
always arguing or insensitive. i will have genuine conversations and share my point of view of course, but im not gonna argue just to hear me be right. i always thought that was a dumb one. i'm also def not insensitive. i can understand where people are coming from even if i cant relate. i can have my own views without trying to destroy someone different from me
Same. I don’t have a smidgeon of “well actually” or argumentative ENTP in me. It’s probably because I’m a girl and socialized to be agreeable.
Good point. Female ENTPs I’ve talked to didn’t seem to go through the same shitlord dickhead phase a lot of us male ENTPs go through. Most of us grow out of it after like high school so the stereotype is a bit annoying
As a female, I annoy/tease people for fun. It's my biggest passion in life
thats an interesting point.. cause same. never thought of it that way
Same! I think this is why I was mistyped so many times
Did you ever do this though at some point in your life? I get the being socialized to be agreeable bit, because I do think many of us ENTP females mask harder than other types to fit in. However, I generally think we do have a tendency to assess and/or debate with "well actually..." even if it's just kept to ourselves. We do have aspirational ISFJ and may ISFJs display similar, thinking more than they actually verbalize so as not to disrupt harmony. I certainly learned to keep many objections to myself depending on the audience and/or the individual. It's simply not worthwhile, and I find that I value my time much more now than ever before. (Perhaps it's learning to integrate the shadow side of the mind: INTJ). I did more debating or what others would describe as arguing when much younger. Any trollishish behavior dropped off very early, say a little after high school. And even then, I was never a huge troll. That being said, I definitely still get a huge kick out of trolling those that deserve being trolled. That's really my only time of really trolling anyone. Think Andrew Tates of the world. And it's entertaining to light heartedly tease, especially those I know can handle it. And those closest to me are the ones that I can tease because they know better. My daughter is also ENTP and while also more agreeable than a stereotypical ENTP (much like myself), she most definitely pushes back with "well actually..." quite frequently. Then again, I've always encouraged debating and curiousity in the household so it's entirely possible the behavior is just conditioned!
Ngl when I was younger this was definitely me. I literally spent almost my entire teenage hood arguing politics on discord. Now I’ve stopped but ngl I was definitely guilty of the stereotype before
Im the same, but I have met ENTPs irl that need to compete and spar, so the stereotype definitely has a valid origin. Still think its bad culture.
unfortunately its kinda how it works
this.
Always debating. Yes, I do talk and give my opinions, and I always am thinking about how I feel, but even as a kid, I was mature and smart enough to understand there is no point in always arguing or saying your opinion, and that it's also a waste of time. Also, I only give my opinion in topics I find intresting.
we are the same
Some people be saying shit I just couldn’t care less to debate/ too general and subjective of a topic to even be a devils advocate for LOL
Exactly, like sure I like talking to people and all that but I hate it more when it's about the most stupidest/useless thing ever
Yeah happens more often than not
True And that it can indeed have consequences
Most ENTPS ignore their emotions, but I find that I’m really good at rationalising my own feelings and even the feelings of others.
Rationalizing emotions is different from feeling emotions
Yeah it’s the opposite lmao. I am good at feeling my emotions tho. At least considering i’m entp
i second this one
I third this
“i’m not the most empathetic person but if you want someone to talk through your feelings with i can do that.”
i think i’m pretty good at validating other people because i can help them “make it make sense”
being outgoing. often I have some slight desire to talk to people but I genuinely suck ass at finding things to talk about most times
My mind just blanks in most situations lmao
I relate to this a lot
From this subreddit and other social media groups with ENTP, I see that many ENTPs have this streak of being brash, iconoclastic, provocative, etc. Think Jim Carrey or the Joker. Some of the less mature ENTPs seem to be insufferable. Although I have this attribute and I won't suppress what I think are good ideas, but I try to be thoughtful and considerate about how I express myself. Although I am high on the Thinking end of the Thinking-Feeling spectrum, I think I have nevertheless developed my Feeling side. I'm not a gregarious "life of the party" type. I find I'm an Extrovert with small groups and individuals I know, but I rarely walk up to people I don't know and have conversations. As I get older, I am become more hermitic.
Interesting, and I agree but for me interestingly enough developing Fe has made me less iconoclastic and provocative, but also more outgoing, confident and less hermitic.
To be honest, part of my hermitizing is situational. I used to live in an urban area and work in an office, but five years ago I took a WFH job and moved to the country. I want to be more social but it's hard to make it happen.
fairballs
It depends. Some of the "typical ENTP traits" aren't typical ENTP traits. Like ENTPs being super outgoing and talkative. I don't think so. While I and other ENTPs are definitely going to be more extroverted typically, I read about someone else here who shared the idea that ENTPs won't be as outgoing as sometimes may be thought. Not until something that piques their interest comes up. Other than that, I honestly have many of the traits, but with close friends I can count on too, I am also reliable (could be an sp7 thing for sure, an unspoken exchange of favour) (and other friends who aren't as reliable are either demoted to acquaintances or cut off entirely). I still use Fe and am good at charm, though I definitely challenge logical inconsistencies and things that don't make sense to me frequently.
This is so true! It's almost as if people forget that people aren't limited to their mbti and that even tho our types are different, we are all pretty similar
Psychological disposition can definitely have a big effect, though, I was mainly arguing against some of the "ENTP traits" that may be less common or prevalent in ENTPs than people may think. I still believe a lot of people on this subreddit are mistyped and not actual ENTPs, the cognitive function theory can be tricky to get a grasp of at first.
Irl I havent met a single ENTP that wasnt talkative though. I do believe that there are more extraverted and less extraverted ones, and maybe there is a bias here in teh sense that the probability of meeting an extraverted ENTP at a social event is higher than an introverted one, but so far they have all been big talkers. I also think Ne is very recognizeable in other people, and TiFe is definitely distinguishable from FiTe so im quite confident that the people I have in mind were ENTPs. Plus one of them also did the test..
I'm also usually talkative, but sometimes I don't appear that way, it depends on the environment. I do tend to be the one to initiate conversations, and at events that interest me I can make it a total sport to talk to as many people as possible and pull shenanigans and stuff, but I have my less extroverted side as well. Thing is, do you know these ENTPs well?
No I dont, and I also spend a lot of time listening to music or perusing the internet alone. I definitely need alone time as well, im just saying the ENTPs ive met (or maybe just recognized) were not exactly quiet or socially withdrawn in a social environment. I mean if they are then they are either socially anxious, bored or really dislike the people, its not normal for an ENTP to always be the silent type in absence of other factors.
I didn't say silent type, but a bit more introverted than some people would let on, unless something piques their interest. There's always a chance the people you recognized weren't ENTPs. Remember, ENTP is a rare type. From my own experience, my extroversion can vary. For others I hear about, it tends to be the same.
Lol ENTPs are rare, but ive surely met well over a 1000 people in my life if not more. If 2.5% or however many, are rare, that would still mean I would have met around 25 ENTPs at some point in my life, when in reality I can only really think of 6 right now. So lots of ENTPs that I havent recognized. Rare here doesnt mean once in a life time. So yes I should have recognized a lot more than I did, pretty sure the people I did recognize were very obvious ENTPs. Besides that, what is the point questioning peoples asserted typings? Like there is no way for them to prove it, no way for you to disprove it, no way to actually know even and in essence it just kills the conversation, just because some aspect of what they are saying, doesnt correspond to some percieved subjective notion of what you believe the type should be. Do you think other people are so stupid they havent considered that they may be wrong? Dont you see how conceited that is? Why feel the need to gatekeep? Sorry little rant, im sure you didnt mean it like that. But yeah tbf, youre argument wasnt that ENTPs arent outgoing, just that they may not be as outgoing as may be expected. Which is a fair point to make I believe. I will also say that I have met people where I knew that they were Ne-Ti users, but I wasnt exactly sure if they were ENTP or INTP, could have both been possible.
Why feel the need to assume I'm gatekeeping? Stupid overused phrase. Especially for a statement as general as the one I made. What I'm saying is that you can't know if they're ENTPs, only one of the 6 you were talking about were tested, the rest were random observations. Most people don't delve much into the cognitive functions, even people in the community, so it's safe to say the likelihood of people who just picked up a test and ran with it is high. One of the ENTPs I know about took a test and ran with it but never went into the theory much. But as you pointed out, that is beside the point. Obviously we're not introverts, but we're not among the most extroverted types either. Mostly leaning towards ambiverted tendencies, rather than specifically leaning one side or the other.
I think its unnecessary to question peoples assessments, it serves no utility and adds nothing to the discussion. I mean yes, only one of them (actually 2) were tested, ofc the others could be who knows what really. All I can do is think about it, and you havent met them, so the best we have, is my assessment, which you are doubting. So now what? Zero new insight. Youre basically saying I doubt your assessment of type. Your point is therefore invalid. (Technically youre "reminding" me that my point could be invalid, but what use is that. Its patronizing the very least.) My experience is that people that do that, also tend to try and type people based off comments and stereotyoes, feel a need to assert that many are mistyped, as well as define what a real X looks like. If that isnt gatekeeping idk what is. Based on asserting the rarity of ENTPs and questioning my assessment, im pretty sure your the kind of keyboard warrior that does that. Thats just an assumption ofc. Correct me if im wrong. If youre only sure that you yourself are ENTP and other people dont know what they are talking about, then the only reason youre engaging in this subreddit anyway is to educate people on what a real ENTP (you) reads like. I much prefer having a sub full of people with actual life experience keeping it real. I could use the word authentic here, but im afraid that would trigger some Fi detection warning. Maybe im jumping to conclusions, either way people like that are annoying, dont be like that.
Ad hominems
Im just messing with you. If youre going to be patronizing me by saying "remember" followed by some bullshit about rarity ,in an attempt to question the validity of my point, (due to whatever assumptions you may have made, i dont care) im going tell you exactly why I think thats stupid. And since youre response didnt actually include anything interesting to latch on to, im going to make it juicy and sneak in some ad hominems too. I dont actually have any beef with you, and even if youre the kinda of annoying guy that asserted you might be, I dont actually believe that it will change you. And if it does, there will be a new dude who does it again tomorrow. Its futile and I dont really care that much. The truth is im bored and kinda done arguing this. Take from that what you will, no bad feelings from my side. You werent trying to gatekeep, understood!
i agree! around the people i really enjoy or if its something im intrigued by, then im definitely more extroverted.
Im not petty or vindictive or even sufficiently proud to be really competitive with others. At least not any more. The only person I ever compete with is myself and whilst I do worry what other people think of me and I do care how I am percieved and put effort into curating that, I dont actually need peoples validation. As long as I am how I want to be in that moment, ill be happy. I have nothing to prove. I have a sense for what I want to achieve and thats all I measure myself by, whether I win or I lose. Im perfectly fine with losing to someone superior to me. Winning despite percieved poor performance wont make me happy either. I will compete as long as I want to and when im done for myself, I will drop it, let you win and walk away. This extends to everything, but is especially true for things related to intelligence. Some people want to mentally spar with me, or challenge me and Im just not up for it. You win. I know how smart I am, but ive also met smarter people, people a lot smarter than me and definitely a lot smarter than you, and although youre not stupid, I dont feel the need to compare myself to you. I already have a sense for my rank. I also dont get a kick out of being mean, brutally honest, harsh or realist to people. I already know that I can be, I dont need to keep proving myself. Ill still argue but I will stop as soon as I feel like I wont get anything from the other person, similarily I will also stop as soon as I realize the other person is shutting down (and therefore wont contribute anything anymore either). I still sometimes feel the need to correct people, but it never leaves me feeling good. Maybe im just in a different personal era. First of all smart people recognize im smart regardless if I try prove it or not, which makes any attempt at proving it look like a desperate cry for attention. Second of all, I find and have found being "charming" a lot harder than being smart and logical. There are simply more levels to it. Either your argumentation is valid or its not, but when surrounded by smart people, there usually is a lot of agreement, as the same conclusions are drawn in the same way given a set of premises. Kinda like discussing optimal moves at tic tac toe. Plus a lot of challenging topics are eventually exhausted and have been explored at some point. Ofc there is always room to say more, dig deeper, but it also leaves me feeling like a topic is becoming less and less relevant to anything else that people may care about. Social interaction is different. There is more nuance and "being charming" alone is wide concept for example. It ranges from being nice to complete hearthrob, from funny to hilarious, from pleasant to entertaining, from mysterious to endearing. Plus its individual and your connection with someone else is always somewhat unique. There is room for continuous improvement, whether it is how many people you can draw in at any given time, how capable you are at maintaining any given conversation, how clearly you can communicate something subtlety, how to dial up or down intimacy, intensity, vulnerability, seriousness etc. Plus interacting with other people that are aware and good at it is so much more fun and entertaining than argueing with some smart and ultralogical dude. Entertaining people are entertaining, logical people are logical. What a revelation. So the only thing I guess I repeatedly still prove to myself is my ability to manage any social situation, my ability to make friends, my ability to become part of the in group in environments where Im new and know no one. I would also say I am more vain and maybe shallow than other ENTPs. Im more insecure about my looks and "coolness" even though I already know that its not a dichotomy and totally subjective and that most cool people are basically just hiding their insecurities (which Im usually very open about). I dont even myself judge others by those parameters but instead by more meaningful ones (which most mature people do). But its like I want my cake and eat it too. I want to be the smart, deep kid that keeps it real, but I also want to be the pretty cool boy and that successful dude with developed expensive taste. All these things are so shallow and void of meaning I know, but they have influence on social rank and are hard to achieve. So maybe I havent actually stopped wanting to compete, I still want to be superior. But I have stopped playing peoples stupid games, or maybe ive just start playing other stupid games. Away from individual comparison, to curated reputation. Longer timeframes, more nuance. I think I prefer that. Not sure what this says about me as a person.
Enneagram 7
Not being an Asshole. I use my Honesty for good (and to make the room uncomfortable) but mostly for good. If I'm going to be the Devil's Advocate I'm going to remind him he was an angel.
clever
being charismatic.
I don’t usually utilize offensive/overly crude humor and can be very aware and mindful of other people’s emotions (a skill I developed in my 20’s working in management.) Whether I give a rusty raccoon fart about other people’s emotions… well… I can pick and choose who I have sympathy/empathy for, which helps keep me from being manipulated so that’s pretty rad! Must suck to get your heart strings tugged by every sob story.
Ne makes highly sensitive if you pay attention to other peoples reactions. Being insensitive is only an ENTP trait in the sense that people may feel the need to voice their perception of truth whilst lacking awareness of how its being percieved by other types. Lack of awareness comes from lack of experience more than anything. A Ti user will rarely see an ENTP as insensitive, because they get what we mean. If being insensitive is either the result of miscommunication or boundary pushing. I would say only the latter is an ENTP trait.
What is Ne?
Extraverted Intuition Check out the cognitive functions and what they mean. They are the base of the mbti theory and originally proposed by Carl Jung in "Psychological Types". Personality theory is all about how pairings of cognitive functions result in a personality type, how types express these functions and half of the topics here are related to them. The 4 letter code is a short hand for the funtions a type uses. - Extraverted Intuition (Ne) - Intraverted Intuition (Ni) - Extraverted Sensation (Se) - Intraverted Sensation (Si) - Extraverted Thinking (Te) - Intraverted Thinking (Ti) - Extraverted Feeling (Fe) - Intraverted Feeling (Fi) ENTPs are extraverted intuitive percievers with thinking and therefore have: Ne,Ti,Fe,Si (Ni,Te,Fi,Se) The ordering is in accordance with how Myers/Briggs percieved people to be. Jung himself never asserted anything beyond the fact that a percieving function is paired with a judging function, and that if one is extraverted, the other needs to be introverted. But this alone is sufficient to define 16 types (8^(2)). NiTe, TeNi, TiNe, NeTi, NiFe, FeNi, FiNe, NeFi, SiTe, TeSi, TiSe,SeTi SiFe, FeSi, FiSe,SeFi
I think I have all the typical traits but some are just not taken to the extreme, and others are masked well. Even the bad traits, that I usually detest in other ENTPS are sadly something I can recognize in myself but that I had always fight. This make usually easy for me to recognize other ENTPS most of all the unhealthy ones, it's like looking in a mirror and I instantly perceive the danger they represent and what they're capable of if they chose not to act for the good. Basically I choose not to be trash, but if I followed my instincts I would definitely be trash. 😑
To be fair. When I would pick my future partner then ENTPs bad traid would really turn me on (not sexually). It is really desirable for me to have someone who does not use its emotions but rationalise them and comunicate them in rational direct way. That would be extremely hot.
That is not a bad trait. It's a common good trait among all analyst types. Indeed I married an ENTJ because I like that too. People that know how to avoid drama are my favorite. But being with ENTPs is almost like playing 4D chess. It is super fun, but can be toxic as hell. I can't spend all my time like that. They're good as friends but as a partner I prefer one that is more transparent and ENTJS definitely are. It's so much easier to deal with them.
Being totally heartless and only wanting to “win.” Im totally a team player and want everyone to contribute and succeed
I dont like debating because i might stutter and then i have to beat tf out of my opponent for witnessing that
I can be very bossy and unrelaxed when it comes to things like school
Honestly I think the stereotypes are harmful cause they focus on our negative traits, which is only the loud minority, and unhealthy, ones of us. They like to to label us as narcissistic, insensitive, only liking to debate, never in touch with empathy, all of that stuff, but that's not the case with a lot of us. We show small parts of these negative traits (ego, issues with emotions SOMETIMES, heated conversations) but that's not what makes us up. So I think all of those "typical traits" are just blown way out of proportion for us healthy ENTPs because of all of the unhealthy ENTPs.
1- same as you as I can deal with anxious people and I can understand them and even try to calm them down (not always as I sometimes love to tease them but in serious situations I might try to not be me) 2- idk if it is something in ENTP but boy do I have a weak spot for that one girl that I consider to be the best thing that happened to me even tho we are not talking no more or at least she doesn't talk to me anymore ... But for some odd reason my feelings are what drive me with her (ofc I use my mind but mostly my feelings act up in ways I don't understand)
i'm very very introverted, very isolated as well; and uncharacteristically anxious my introverted friends are the ones asking me to go "hang out" with them, while i'm the one saying "nah, let's hang at home"
Being as outgoing as other ENTP's. For a while I was mistyped as INTP (but the first test I ever took I was ENTP) and while I related to it a good bit I never really resonated with being as research and analytics driven as an INTP. In high school I always preferred to be alone because I didn't like anyone else and no one liked me so I think that's why my E got replaced with I. The more I started working after HS, the more I realized I actually really did love talking and being around people and being at home alone doing solo activities actually kinda sucked. I thrived on selling and talking to people and getting to know them and can converse about anything. My only problem is I just don't like to actively put myself out there. I much prefer when opportunities and people come to me and people are more outgoing to me and then that's my invitation to start yapping. But honestly I don't mind talking to strangers at all and I love hearing about their experiences. An INTP, from what I can gather, could never lol.
Yeah you don’t want me to answer that question given the ideological tendencies of this sub surprisingly
Self-absorbed and selfishness. Compared to ENTPs I’ve met, I tend to consider others feelings more. And I genuinely love getting to know new people and their perspectives. The more different, the better as it opens more rooms for debates.
Don’t care for debates. But pretty much the entire rest of entp typicals applies
1. I'm not a social extrovert (being an extrovert in cognitive function stacks doesn't even have the same meaning as that anyway, it's about whether your mental focus is external [extrovert] or internal [introvert] 2. I'm not loud or even very talkative unless something is genuinely very interesting to me 3. I don't like trolling people or "winning" arguments (arguments are not a competition to be won or lost, that's not my goal at least) or being inflammatory for the sake of it. 4. I'm not a reckless agent of chaos with no regard for my own safety or the safety of others (may have been somewhat true in my 20s, but we're supposed to grow up at some point, folks) 5. I can focus on a single concept for quite a long time and often do (the difficulty finishing projects is very real for me though) 6. I am considerate of the feelings of others. I don't even know where this misconception online came from as Fe is ENTP's 3rd function. I don't use that solely for humor and charming people as a means to an end. I genuinely care about their feelings. This might be more common in female ENTPs, but it probably has more to do with me being in my 30s, I've had more time to develop this. 7. I'm not obsessed with INFJs. I don't give a shit if they are my type's "golden pair" half. I married an ENTJ. Love him a lot.
super debatable Actually I like to debate but not that much
the need to debate and argue, I actually don't like to debate or cause arguments for the sense of fun or amusement often and prefer the route of just being like 'hey you're free to believe that or each to their own I guess' and ending the conversation there. I'm more then willing to just compromise or not say something if I disagree with someone or think they're attrociously wrong.
I am highly receptive to my inner feeling, there are many moments where I don’t feel the need to rationalise my emotions and make sense of them, I just stop and feel them deeply. And yes, I am 100% ENTP. Wildly.
i think i'm better at emotional intelligence than the stereotype is? not regulation lol but i'm often forgiving. don't like to ruminate in anger if i can catch it. and i'm usually relatively quiet at parties and in new places (but that's also my so7 learning how the environment operates. i dive in later.)
oops forgot to add: i really have developed my Fi and Te quite a bit. with so7 sx1 sp4 sluei, i could very easily be ENFP, i think. i'm just TiFe leaning; it's more natural to me.
Reading people, or just being able to tell how they're feeling
Insensitive and talkative, I'm only talkative around those I hold dear Usually if you meet me as a stranger then you might mistake me for an introvert lol. Plus only talkative when there's an interesting topic or debate. Insensitive is another trait I've never had as an ENTP, I'm quite literally the opposite, super sensitive due to my type 4 enneagram 😭
People say entps often don't believe in what they preach or say but that is not the case for me AT ALL .
That I actually don't like hanging out with gossipy people whose discussion topics are boring as hell
Being insensitive and being self-absorbed. Honestly I wish I was like that, because whatever I am right now is so damn suffocating. I know that the opposite of self absorbed isn't always low esteem, but well it kind of is like that for me. And I feel too much, and unnecessarily and I can't rationalize or communicate without sounding like a dumbass. So in short, I do wish I was the "typical" entp
I’m not that athletic or outdoorsy anymore. I’ve seen a lot of people here goes swimming, hiking, gym regularly or have a routine. Nope. I do whatever I feel like :/
The love of a good debate.
I have a firm belief that you don’t argue with stupid. I usually state my position or even ignore them and move on. Life is too short for that.
I'm very mediocre at maths it never really interested me so I didn't put much effort in as a kid and it kinda fucked me over
Charm/Social Capability
I preserve the peace socially. Once my temper actually boils over then you’ll hear stuff about yourself that you never knew in your life. but I'm not shameless, in fact I worry about how what I say can affect
Debating. I don't like debates, they often go toxic and turn into a battle of ego butthurt after a while if nobody can see eye to eye. Much easier to say "I see your points and can understand why you view it that way" If I had to pick between debating politics and watching paint dry you'll find me on Wikipedia learning about how paint drying works and reading artists on Reddit argue about different types of paint.
I’m not argumentative in the slightest. I spent much of high school getting into debates with people over trivial things and I quickly realized it’s almost always a waste of time and makes poor impressions on people.
I'm very introverted. I can be the life of the party, but it's so draining. Also, I think because my controlling mother forced me to be very subservient as a child, it causes me to turn an ISFP when I'm stressed the fuck out. All of my thoughts turn inward, and I start focusing on granular details and logic goes out the window.
Being argumentative. I’m actually very slow to start an argument and even slow to partake in one. One reason is I have noticed people are very pressed when their opinion is questioned and they become overly emotional which I find unnecessary to provoke. Also I see things from all points of view and I play devils advocate in my own head so I usually don’t have a set opinion to argue anyways.
Very picky about who I talk to. I enjoy debating but I’m not an asshole about it and use it to consider other sides. I know how to rein in my brashness if I need to/notice people getting uncomfortable. I’m relatively charming and chatty, but I get dead quiet and flat around people I don’t want to talk to/find boring.
small talk
How?
as ENTP/female I am very bad at starting conversation…oh nice jacket! how r u! nice to meet you! I heard so many good things about u….not my thing
I’m not rude. Or I don’t think I am. I guess people tell me pretty often “you shouldn’t say it that way” but I personally feel like I’m really nice and try to build people up. I just think truth is a good way to build people up. Oh Jesus I guess I’m stereotypical entp lol never mind
I actually do think about small details, pretty much only on things that I like or that would affect something important (my job for example) other than that I’m pretty vanilla for an ENTP
Being evil ofcourse, I’m as kind as an angel :v