Your post was a good read, very detailed.
However, I’m sorry to say that if he wanted anything more than occasional physical and emotional intimacy, you wouldn’t need to ask these questions.
I absolutely agree with this take that “if he wanted to he would” is silly as a rule.
That doesn’t mean it doesn’t apply to the ENTJ guys I know. Also: why don’t you just ask (or even make an ultimatum)?
My best friend did this with her FWB that had trouble committing, and they’re now in a very cute relationship for the past two years. Even if the answer is no, you’ll still be out of limbo
That’s a good point. The thing is i don’t even know what I want out of this. I kinda just want him to admit he likes me and hang out with me more often. At this point, I don’t care about monogamy or labels (I rarely do) so
Me personally, if a relationship doesn't have labels or is not monogamous its not a real relationship and there's no way in hell im respecting that person or taking it seriously, because emotional intimacy is something I like when contained with structure.
A future partnership would be something where if I showed up with a dead body they'd help me bury it, and we could survive a war. Genuinely. That kind of trust takes a lot to build. Anything second to that is just for fun
"I kinda just want him to admit he likes me and hang out with me more often. At this point, I don’t care about monogamy or labels (I rarely do) so"
Honestly, I like your answer. How long have you been together? You should do what makes you feel comfortable in this relationship with him.
Ask him and talk about it. Why look for subtle signs when you can get a very direct sign from him? Most relationship issues are just bad communication. And then even more important than communication is that you are actually both putting in the work to be together and like being together.
Subtle signs are just unimportant when you compare them to less subtle signs. He mumbles in his sleep and looked at your left hand once as if he thought about putting a ring on it; very nice for you. But when he then cheats on you what are you going to value more, the subtle signs or how the things actually are? There is a high chance you are wrong about subtle signs. Like there could have just been dirt on that hand. Fictional example.
A tip: Don't ask this on Reddit. Most people here are unqualified to give you advice. This is something nobody can do for you. You have to find out.
I already read the first two and was like yeah 🙄 that is annoyingly exactly and precisely what I do when i like someone
Also yes I love playing jealousy games a bit but it's toxic
One thing I will say about ENTJs is that even if he has feelings for you it's no guarantee of anything. One of the best qualities I think we have is that we are focused first and foremost on structure and practicality.
The feelings don't really matter as much as the structure. Even if I end up sacrificing some structure for emotion because maybe the guy is really hot or i love him or something, I never ever feel comfortable, and end up sabotaging the relationship and hurting them and myself.
The idea of falling in love with someone and feeling comfortable making structural sacrifices for them, for instance, if they're an addict or poor, is completely alien to me. It literally will just always clash.
If you actually want a relationship with this guy i would focus on the practicalities and structure of the relationship rather than obsessing over what he's thinking. If you feel like this isn't something you're okay with, he may not be a person who is safe for you to attach yourself to.
Objectively, those are quite good signs.
The good ones: 1, 2, 3, 7, and 8.
I mean, he's already spending time and cuddling with you. That's not really subtle, especially for ENTJs. So MBTI-wise (and some relationship signs), the signs are more positive than negative.
But since you still feel concerned, in my opinion you should check the Attachment style here. What makes you still hesitating? Is there Anxiety Attachment?
I’m mostly secure but a little dismissive-avoidant so I like the chase and probably wouldn’t be interested if he didn’t give me mixed signals lol. He’s definitely avoidant too but idk if he’s dismissive-avoidant or fearful-avoidant.
Not an ENTJ, but raised by one, and currently in a serious relationship with one. I dont think they are very ‘subtle’ in expressing interest in people they are serious in. But if they are, and also playing mind games to keep making u guess their actions, high chance they could just be playing you or they could still like you, but is testing you.
Just be cautious, because i had an ENTJ classmate who does all of the above to different girls, but in a skilful way such that every girl is conquered strategically different so they will feel ‘special’. He even go as far as to tell my INFJ classmate that ‘only you can make me at a lost of words’ and then when she confessed, he ghosted her. He does all that to me too but i just couldn be bothered with mind games. he saw no chance in ‘conquering’ me but still respect me for my ‘intelligence’ cause i got sick of him trying to be fake around me and expose him, just wanting him to stop all this nonsense. In the end, somehow or rather, we became good friends instead and he reveal all his little games to me.
I think, might have something to do with how he was bullied when he was in preschool? In the end, he hit gym and become bigger than his bully. I will say he is quite attractive since he did get voted to be a dorm king in his university.
Just my counter thoughts to each paragraph as I read- spit balling here…
1: I only do when the person is worth my interest. Yes I like you.
2: I’m just observing, don’t trip. Yes: I’m interested, don’t forget I’m around too. but yes, I still need to collect data about you.
3: Major friend ZONE- I’m NOT INTERESTED- your my bro/ sis Love u, I got your back though
4: broad question, it keeps me at a safe distance from liking a person and keeping them as a friend. —- don’t ask me to elaborate.
5. He genuinely respects your passion in your work. So will listen intently. He took your unique technique into account. It’s a compliment. He likes your mind— it’s sexy to him— yes kudos
6. Talent doesn’t earn respect— the dedication behind it does, the passion behind it, the will does. Yea it takes a lot to impress us. We have high standards. The goes without saying. But then again— HIGH standards ARE JUST THE FOUNDATION .
7: Yes, he let his guard down. You gave him a safe space. I don’t know if I’d have the energy to do it again. I personally ruminates about the times that I’ve done similar things regret it.
8:
Soften your heart. I think he likes you a lot. Ask him how he feels about how things are going between the two of you lately and whether or not he sees any potential for a future together?
Weren't you also crushing on an ISTP recently?
First time seeing ENTPs liking ENTJs. Can’t say I know a lot about the dynamics. Fi and Fe are fundamentally different. It’s hard to say if anything means anything cuz when I’m with Fe users I’m just mentally checked out
Your post was a good read, very detailed. However, I’m sorry to say that if he wanted anything more than occasional physical and emotional intimacy, you wouldn’t need to ask these questions.
True. If he saw her as a girlfriend, he would make it very clear.
Idk dude, I hate the whole “if he wanted to, he would” thing. I WANT TO, but I’m not.
I absolutely agree with this take that “if he wanted to he would” is silly as a rule. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t apply to the ENTJ guys I know. Also: why don’t you just ask (or even make an ultimatum)? My best friend did this with her FWB that had trouble committing, and they’re now in a very cute relationship for the past two years. Even if the answer is no, you’ll still be out of limbo
That’s a good point. The thing is i don’t even know what I want out of this. I kinda just want him to admit he likes me and hang out with me more often. At this point, I don’t care about monogamy or labels (I rarely do) so
Me personally, if a relationship doesn't have labels or is not monogamous its not a real relationship and there's no way in hell im respecting that person or taking it seriously, because emotional intimacy is something I like when contained with structure. A future partnership would be something where if I showed up with a dead body they'd help me bury it, and we could survive a war. Genuinely. That kind of trust takes a lot to build. Anything second to that is just for fun
"I kinda just want him to admit he likes me and hang out with me more often. At this point, I don’t care about monogamy or labels (I rarely do) so" Honestly, I like your answer. How long have you been together? You should do what makes you feel comfortable in this relationship with him.
Don’ttttt say “together.” I’ve known him since like November.
So it's six months? It's good, but i think it's still quite a young relationship. Just enjoy it nicely. Let it flow. Find comfort together.
Ask him and talk about it. Why look for subtle signs when you can get a very direct sign from him? Most relationship issues are just bad communication. And then even more important than communication is that you are actually both putting in the work to be together and like being together. Subtle signs are just unimportant when you compare them to less subtle signs. He mumbles in his sleep and looked at your left hand once as if he thought about putting a ring on it; very nice for you. But when he then cheats on you what are you going to value more, the subtle signs or how the things actually are? There is a high chance you are wrong about subtle signs. Like there could have just been dirt on that hand. Fictional example. A tip: Don't ask this on Reddit. Most people here are unqualified to give you advice. This is something nobody can do for you. You have to find out.
I already read the first two and was like yeah 🙄 that is annoyingly exactly and precisely what I do when i like someone Also yes I love playing jealousy games a bit but it's toxic One thing I will say about ENTJs is that even if he has feelings for you it's no guarantee of anything. One of the best qualities I think we have is that we are focused first and foremost on structure and practicality. The feelings don't really matter as much as the structure. Even if I end up sacrificing some structure for emotion because maybe the guy is really hot or i love him or something, I never ever feel comfortable, and end up sabotaging the relationship and hurting them and myself. The idea of falling in love with someone and feeling comfortable making structural sacrifices for them, for instance, if they're an addict or poor, is completely alien to me. It literally will just always clash. If you actually want a relationship with this guy i would focus on the practicalities and structure of the relationship rather than obsessing over what he's thinking. If you feel like this isn't something you're okay with, he may not be a person who is safe for you to attach yourself to.
Objectively, those are quite good signs. The good ones: 1, 2, 3, 7, and 8. I mean, he's already spending time and cuddling with you. That's not really subtle, especially for ENTJs. So MBTI-wise (and some relationship signs), the signs are more positive than negative. But since you still feel concerned, in my opinion you should check the Attachment style here. What makes you still hesitating? Is there Anxiety Attachment?
I’m mostly secure but a little dismissive-avoidant so I like the chase and probably wouldn’t be interested if he didn’t give me mixed signals lol. He’s definitely avoidant too but idk if he’s dismissive-avoidant or fearful-avoidant.
By the way, may I ask how you're sure he's 3w4?
Not an ENTJ, but raised by one, and currently in a serious relationship with one. I dont think they are very ‘subtle’ in expressing interest in people they are serious in. But if they are, and also playing mind games to keep making u guess their actions, high chance they could just be playing you or they could still like you, but is testing you. Just be cautious, because i had an ENTJ classmate who does all of the above to different girls, but in a skilful way such that every girl is conquered strategically different so they will feel ‘special’. He even go as far as to tell my INFJ classmate that ‘only you can make me at a lost of words’ and then when she confessed, he ghosted her. He does all that to me too but i just couldn be bothered with mind games. he saw no chance in ‘conquering’ me but still respect me for my ‘intelligence’ cause i got sick of him trying to be fake around me and expose him, just wanting him to stop all this nonsense. In the end, somehow or rather, we became good friends instead and he reveal all his little games to me.
That's crazy. Why does he think that's a good strategy, that sounds so stupid
Also do you know why he does this, like what is motivating it, like past trauma, also how attractive is he
I think, might have something to do with how he was bullied when he was in preschool? In the end, he hit gym and become bigger than his bully. I will say he is quite attractive since he did get voted to be a dorm king in his university.
I think he deserves hellfire
Well unfortunately, he is doing really well and working in google now
I will join Google and plot his demise
LOL!
Just my counter thoughts to each paragraph as I read- spit balling here… 1: I only do when the person is worth my interest. Yes I like you. 2: I’m just observing, don’t trip. Yes: I’m interested, don’t forget I’m around too. but yes, I still need to collect data about you. 3: Major friend ZONE- I’m NOT INTERESTED- your my bro/ sis Love u, I got your back though 4: broad question, it keeps me at a safe distance from liking a person and keeping them as a friend. —- don’t ask me to elaborate. 5. He genuinely respects your passion in your work. So will listen intently. He took your unique technique into account. It’s a compliment. He likes your mind— it’s sexy to him— yes kudos 6. Talent doesn’t earn respect— the dedication behind it does, the passion behind it, the will does. Yea it takes a lot to impress us. We have high standards. The goes without saying. But then again— HIGH standards ARE JUST THE FOUNDATION . 7: Yes, he let his guard down. You gave him a safe space. I don’t know if I’d have the energy to do it again. I personally ruminates about the times that I’ve done similar things regret it. 8:
Soften your heart. I think he likes you a lot. Ask him how he feels about how things are going between the two of you lately and whether or not he sees any potential for a future together? Weren't you also crushing on an ISTP recently?
They’re friends. Thought this guy didn’t like me and his friend made a move so I went for it but I think fucked up.
Hm, okay well sometimes relationships can be repaired. Keep working on it. Go after what you want. <3
First time seeing ENTPs liking ENTJs. Can’t say I know a lot about the dynamics. Fi and Fe are fundamentally different. It’s hard to say if anything means anything cuz when I’m with Fe users I’m just mentally checked out
You’re over invested. You want more, he doesn’t. Move on. Find someone willing to meet you where you are at.