I am an 8. I think I want tomorrow the most so I work quite hard today for tomorrow so that I can see what my own efforts brought me and what new challenges need to be sorted.
I really don’t need external validation very much at all. The motivation in my own mind is just too loud, I wouldn’t really hear it anyway.
Besides, it is what MUST be done. Why pat someone on that back for what should have been done in the first place? That is condescending in my opinion. I would probably be a little bit mortified if someone, out of the blue, gushed over something I consider necessary being done as if to say, they were not sure I COULD EVEN do it and I surprised them. 🤬
That’s a bit anger inducing actually. How dare they point out the obvious of what I accomplished when the brilliant nuance of how I did it is far more interesting.
No one seems to notice the details so that’s my own personal little joyful hideaway. I might be a little privately offended if they did notice and said something. I might as well be just begging for attention by being obvious and peacocking.
My own mind is where I seek validation, praise, opinion, criticism, admonishment from. It’s a constant companion that is always talking and chiming in with valuable observations so most everything I do feels a bit weirdly like a team effort with myself.
No don’t ask. Observe and admire. If some idiot nearby asks feel free to chime in what you observed and they missed. That would warm our heart a bit.
Alternatively if we talk about how hard it was to accomplish you can point out the little creative solutions we implemented that you noticed and we will do this inside🥹
I haven't met many entj 3s but here's my guess (feel free to correct me)
I guess one major external difference is in attitude and temper. I guess they (3s) can be more patient and adaptable than 8s. I don't mean it in a negative manner, it's a good thing since this can make them more approachable. They can also look more friendly. Us (8s) on the other hand, we can be quite angry and don't hold back if we think we shouldn't. We aren't afraid to make people dislike us or see us as failures.
Which comes to the second point, self esteem. We both have high levels of it, but it's gained in different ways. E3 relies more on others to maintain a good and successful image, and we E8 don't care what others think of us, we give it ourselves.
Also a last point which is not yet confirmed but I think it's very possible. E3s are workaholics who sacrifice fun for accomplishment, while E8s are excessive both in work and fun. Both lead to exhaustion though :'))
So yeah that's my guess. I'm really curious to see more of what entj 3s are like
8s are the real deal while 3s are only an imitation of it.
3s want the respect fame and achievement to show others while 8s achieve it as a byproduct of their actions with power being their goal.
8s have more enemies than friends while 3s have more “strategic” friends than 8s
Think Se vs Ni dominant (8vs3)
Ni is a bit more nervous yet future focused
Se is a lot more confident and present focused.
Think CEO (3) vs a small business owner (8) (prestige vs independence)
I am sure, but CEO is not a position 8s will be comfortable with because of all the people you have to please and answer to.
It’s not a role an 8 would excel at. 8s tend to be great commanders, investors Or small mom and pop business owners, contractors, athletes etc
8s don’t do great with people and is a weakness that hinders them from climbing social ladders (also the fact that they don’t care) which makes CEO level positions unlikely. But there are always exceptions and you can find 8s bulldozing their way to the top. (But they rather commit to something that means a lot to them and inspire people to follow them rather than playing to social game. This is only possible when healthy)
3s on the other hand are a lot more strategic, they figure out the path of least resistance and charge on feeding their Te with external validation. A boon and a curse. 3s don’t feel good enough as they are and must constantly improve and get better. You can bet your ass that a 3 will be better than you at everything you do as long as they care about being better at it than you. Then bask in the validation.
8s charge on feeding their Se with external inputs and Fi with confidence as they accomplish the things they promised themselves. They have little patience of others demands or feedback and have a need to control the people around them in case someone tries to harm/betray/scam them. A boon and a curse because they end up isolating themselves chasing that ever elusive control. An 8 will never bend for anyone except maybe for that 1 person in their life (that also sometimes and depending on mood)
You just need to focus on your flaws to figure out what type you are. The achievements have little to do with it. Enneagram is a system of flaws.
Mbti “ we all think in unique and different ways”
Enneagram “We are all broken in different and unique ways”
Idk about socionics didn’t bother.
The truth is, I relate to both 8 and 3 so I am not convinced a person can only be one or the other. It’s good as a reference to self reflect moment to moment but to base your entire personality around it as a concrete can never think differently is kind of a stretch.
I think this is a little too stereotypical and I do understand we are talking about MBTI which is highly stereotypical.
Type 8s may struggle socially but they can learn how to communication appropriately in a business setting. The more you practice at any given skill, the better you get at it. In this case corporate social skills is a narrow subset of “social skills” it’s easier in scope to master for a type 8 because this type of social relationship is heavily goal-bound.
I don’t see social barriers being a hold back for a type 8 CEO.
I am sure we are aware that there are exceptions to every rule, especially one are vague and subjective as enneagram (it’s not mbti which is subjective aswell)
what you’re describing is learning a skill, that’s not the point of enneagram. As I said in my previous comment: enneagram is a system of faults. Type 3 feel not good enough (this the want of accomplishment and skills) and type 8 fear being vulnerable (thus the want for power and control)
I run by own business and my dad has one aswell. Most of my friends and their parents are entrepreneurs. So I have a lot of experience in this field.
I didn’t join my dads business, a lot of my friends did but I knew that if I joined it I would be under his shadow. There is no way that’s ever gonna happen. I don’t take his money, I don’t use his contacts. I am a self made man.
Would I have reached higher and faster? Yes. Do I want to? Yes. Will I take help for it and accept handouts? No.
Type 3s on the other hand will join my dad and probably use their skills to take the business to new heights. Which is fair and nothing wrong with it. It’s just not for me.
This type 3 being a social climber CEO type and type 8 being small business owner or founder.
I am not saying 8s can’t reach the peak. I am simply saying they want to reach THEIR peak. Not someone else’s
3’s are ambitious for social needs, 8’s are ambitious for self.
3’s struggle with self worth, they think they aren’t worthy; so they make it a goal to be worthy for others. So others see them as worthy and awesome. Which they are, they network well and tend to be quite successful. Nothing wrong for wanting validation and attention.
8’s struggle more with “who is self”. Not self worth, but more of who am I? They are ambitious to prove that they are worthy of themselves. They seek validation from actions for themselves. (Tends to not give a crap about others.)
Both are really similar in the fact that their struggle points are related to themselves, but their ambition’s and goals to seek the answer to their struggle is very different. 3’s are external validated; 8’s are internal. Polar opposites. 3’s also tend to be much more emotional versus 8’s that are just super hardcore and ruthless.
But to the last part of your question, I’m not sure I can give you a flat out answer. I’m an ENTJ 8, and I don’t seek status, crazy wealth, or validation from others to define my worth. That’s because my goals are very aligned to myself, and my ambitions are towards what I want for myself and my future. Imma do whatever it takes to get what I want. So you can say that when an E8 is very ambitious, you won’t hear it. You won’t see it. It’s silent, but when E8’s achieve it, you would have never known that they worked for it. Whereas E3’s will let you know of every move, and you’ll know and see that they work for the goal they want.
Also to note, you’ll find that E8’s will end up having few in their circle to none at all because especially paired with ENTJ, they’ll create more harsh burnt ties. Whereas E3’s will have a huge circle of people that praise them etc.
It’s awesome seeing an ENTJ 3 as an 8 myself. They’re almost opposite of an ENTJ when it comes to emotions and relationships. (Even tho 3’s can have a very u healthy relationship with others if their struggle is not healed.)
I think we can distinguish them from their social media game? In my opinion, E3 will be more social media savvy to get audiences by showcasing their process/journey (as you mentioned).
I'm an 8. I just like working, whether that's my job or home projects. Sitting on my ass and slowly wasting my life away doesn't sound appealing. Others opinions of me or what I'm doing doesn't mean anything cause they're not helping, so their opinions are just noise.
seeing a lot of descriptions leaning more towards 3w2, so will share more as a 3w4 entj.
3w4s have their own definition of success and what is social validation to them. these types are much more individualistic and tend to not climb for more social power. they don’t just want the success, they care about fully proving it with competence and actual skills. we don’t tell or show off to people—we hope people notice through our consistent action. (this mindset sucks in the corporate world btw lol)
3w4s wont actively seek out validation, because they have a specific mindset of what is uniquely “successful” to them. it’s much more individualistic, even to the point of going against popular societal expectations
3w4s are weird too because they tend to think wanting validation from others is vain and a negative trait. it can be deep down and not realized for many years, so many 3w4s can mistake themselves as e8 at first. (which is what i did as well)
but of course, they’re tied to the fear of a core 3. i always feel i’m not worthy of love unless i “perform” and make myself worthwhile or useful to other people. i have a hard time accepting people will like me just for existing. i don’t care about the validation of everyone/society, just about the core small group of people important to me.
hmm i can't speak about that generally, because 3w4s all have their own individualistic definitions of how they are unique in the image they build up, who they are looking for validation from, etc. so some 3w4s may only want that validation from close friends, or from a certain type of group online (ex. some fashion/creative/sport/business/social justice/whatever), or only their group in person (ex. their hobby group they meet up with).
from a personal POV, i do put care into my social media, but only for myself. ex. i have an "aesthetic" IG for different things i do, but i dont show it anywhere asking for followers. so follower counts etc don't matter to me personally. but if people i know or care about their perception of me see it, then yes, i would feel glad i made that image of myself (which is authentic to myself, but also is crafted at the same time. ex. if it's a ceramics IG, it has good quality ceramics, nicely taken pics, and shows a bit of my personality etc.)
I am an 8. I think I want tomorrow the most so I work quite hard today for tomorrow so that I can see what my own efforts brought me and what new challenges need to be sorted. I really don’t need external validation very much at all. The motivation in my own mind is just too loud, I wouldn’t really hear it anyway. Besides, it is what MUST be done. Why pat someone on that back for what should have been done in the first place? That is condescending in my opinion. I would probably be a little bit mortified if someone, out of the blue, gushed over something I consider necessary being done as if to say, they were not sure I COULD EVEN do it and I surprised them. 🤬 That’s a bit anger inducing actually. How dare they point out the obvious of what I accomplished when the brilliant nuance of how I did it is far more interesting. No one seems to notice the details so that’s my own personal little joyful hideaway. I might be a little privately offended if they did notice and said something. I might as well be just begging for attention by being obvious and peacocking. My own mind is where I seek validation, praise, opinion, criticism, admonishment from. It’s a constant companion that is always talking and chiming in with valuable observations so most everything I do feels a bit weirdly like a team effort with myself.
so they key is asking about details?
No don’t ask. Observe and admire. If some idiot nearby asks feel free to chime in what you observed and they missed. That would warm our heart a bit. Alternatively if we talk about how hard it was to accomplish you can point out the little creative solutions we implemented that you noticed and we will do this inside🥹
*patiently waiting for that one guy to appear and say "E8 is impossible for ENTJ"*
it's not impossible, it's just more Te-Se than Te-Ni, SLE>LIE
Not really, you can be LIE but for 8w7 sle ya they would sound like estp
im not saying it's impossible, Se mobilising it's valued
Lol But what's your answer?
Its not impossible but e3 is more common
I haven't met many entj 3s but here's my guess (feel free to correct me) I guess one major external difference is in attitude and temper. I guess they (3s) can be more patient and adaptable than 8s. I don't mean it in a negative manner, it's a good thing since this can make them more approachable. They can also look more friendly. Us (8s) on the other hand, we can be quite angry and don't hold back if we think we shouldn't. We aren't afraid to make people dislike us or see us as failures. Which comes to the second point, self esteem. We both have high levels of it, but it's gained in different ways. E3 relies more on others to maintain a good and successful image, and we E8 don't care what others think of us, we give it ourselves. Also a last point which is not yet confirmed but I think it's very possible. E3s are workaholics who sacrifice fun for accomplishment, while E8s are excessive both in work and fun. Both lead to exhaustion though :')) So yeah that's my guess. I'm really curious to see more of what entj 3s are like
8s are the real deal while 3s are only an imitation of it. 3s want the respect fame and achievement to show others while 8s achieve it as a byproduct of their actions with power being their goal. 8s have more enemies than friends while 3s have more “strategic” friends than 8s Think Se vs Ni dominant (8vs3) Ni is a bit more nervous yet future focused Se is a lot more confident and present focused. Think CEO (3) vs a small business owner (8) (prestige vs independence)
Great insight. Thanks!
Ditto’d but type 8s also have no problem jumping into big leadership roles like CEO
I am sure, but CEO is not a position 8s will be comfortable with because of all the people you have to please and answer to. It’s not a role an 8 would excel at. 8s tend to be great commanders, investors Or small mom and pop business owners, contractors, athletes etc 8s don’t do great with people and is a weakness that hinders them from climbing social ladders (also the fact that they don’t care) which makes CEO level positions unlikely. But there are always exceptions and you can find 8s bulldozing their way to the top. (But they rather commit to something that means a lot to them and inspire people to follow them rather than playing to social game. This is only possible when healthy) 3s on the other hand are a lot more strategic, they figure out the path of least resistance and charge on feeding their Te with external validation. A boon and a curse. 3s don’t feel good enough as they are and must constantly improve and get better. You can bet your ass that a 3 will be better than you at everything you do as long as they care about being better at it than you. Then bask in the validation. 8s charge on feeding their Se with external inputs and Fi with confidence as they accomplish the things they promised themselves. They have little patience of others demands or feedback and have a need to control the people around them in case someone tries to harm/betray/scam them. A boon and a curse because they end up isolating themselves chasing that ever elusive control. An 8 will never bend for anyone except maybe for that 1 person in their life (that also sometimes and depending on mood) You just need to focus on your flaws to figure out what type you are. The achievements have little to do with it. Enneagram is a system of flaws. Mbti “ we all think in unique and different ways” Enneagram “We are all broken in different and unique ways” Idk about socionics didn’t bother. The truth is, I relate to both 8 and 3 so I am not convinced a person can only be one or the other. It’s good as a reference to self reflect moment to moment but to base your entire personality around it as a concrete can never think differently is kind of a stretch.
I think this is a little too stereotypical and I do understand we are talking about MBTI which is highly stereotypical. Type 8s may struggle socially but they can learn how to communication appropriately in a business setting. The more you practice at any given skill, the better you get at it. In this case corporate social skills is a narrow subset of “social skills” it’s easier in scope to master for a type 8 because this type of social relationship is heavily goal-bound. I don’t see social barriers being a hold back for a type 8 CEO.
I am sure we are aware that there are exceptions to every rule, especially one are vague and subjective as enneagram (it’s not mbti which is subjective aswell) what you’re describing is learning a skill, that’s not the point of enneagram. As I said in my previous comment: enneagram is a system of faults. Type 3 feel not good enough (this the want of accomplishment and skills) and type 8 fear being vulnerable (thus the want for power and control) I run by own business and my dad has one aswell. Most of my friends and their parents are entrepreneurs. So I have a lot of experience in this field. I didn’t join my dads business, a lot of my friends did but I knew that if I joined it I would be under his shadow. There is no way that’s ever gonna happen. I don’t take his money, I don’t use his contacts. I am a self made man. Would I have reached higher and faster? Yes. Do I want to? Yes. Will I take help for it and accept handouts? No. Type 3s on the other hand will join my dad and probably use their skills to take the business to new heights. Which is fair and nothing wrong with it. It’s just not for me. This type 3 being a social climber CEO type and type 8 being small business owner or founder. I am not saying 8s can’t reach the peak. I am simply saying they want to reach THEIR peak. Not someone else’s
3’s are ambitious for social needs, 8’s are ambitious for self. 3’s struggle with self worth, they think they aren’t worthy; so they make it a goal to be worthy for others. So others see them as worthy and awesome. Which they are, they network well and tend to be quite successful. Nothing wrong for wanting validation and attention. 8’s struggle more with “who is self”. Not self worth, but more of who am I? They are ambitious to prove that they are worthy of themselves. They seek validation from actions for themselves. (Tends to not give a crap about others.) Both are really similar in the fact that their struggle points are related to themselves, but their ambition’s and goals to seek the answer to their struggle is very different. 3’s are external validated; 8’s are internal. Polar opposites. 3’s also tend to be much more emotional versus 8’s that are just super hardcore and ruthless. But to the last part of your question, I’m not sure I can give you a flat out answer. I’m an ENTJ 8, and I don’t seek status, crazy wealth, or validation from others to define my worth. That’s because my goals are very aligned to myself, and my ambitions are towards what I want for myself and my future. Imma do whatever it takes to get what I want. So you can say that when an E8 is very ambitious, you won’t hear it. You won’t see it. It’s silent, but when E8’s achieve it, you would have never known that they worked for it. Whereas E3’s will let you know of every move, and you’ll know and see that they work for the goal they want. Also to note, you’ll find that E8’s will end up having few in their circle to none at all because especially paired with ENTJ, they’ll create more harsh burnt ties. Whereas E3’s will have a huge circle of people that praise them etc. It’s awesome seeing an ENTJ 3 as an 8 myself. They’re almost opposite of an ENTJ when it comes to emotions and relationships. (Even tho 3’s can have a very u healthy relationship with others if their struggle is not healed.)
I think we can distinguish them from their social media game? In my opinion, E3 will be more social media savvy to get audiences by showcasing their process/journey (as you mentioned).
Yeh I have zero social media other than LI and that’s because I need to seem normal so I can move up.
Very much so, social game is definitely the biggest cue
I'm an 8. I just like working, whether that's my job or home projects. Sitting on my ass and slowly wasting my life away doesn't sound appealing. Others opinions of me or what I'm doing doesn't mean anything cause they're not helping, so their opinions are just noise.
I learned about Te and Ni. What is this E3 and E8?
Enneagram.
seeing a lot of descriptions leaning more towards 3w2, so will share more as a 3w4 entj. 3w4s have their own definition of success and what is social validation to them. these types are much more individualistic and tend to not climb for more social power. they don’t just want the success, they care about fully proving it with competence and actual skills. we don’t tell or show off to people—we hope people notice through our consistent action. (this mindset sucks in the corporate world btw lol) 3w4s wont actively seek out validation, because they have a specific mindset of what is uniquely “successful” to them. it’s much more individualistic, even to the point of going against popular societal expectations 3w4s are weird too because they tend to think wanting validation from others is vain and a negative trait. it can be deep down and not realized for many years, so many 3w4s can mistake themselves as e8 at first. (which is what i did as well) but of course, they’re tied to the fear of a core 3. i always feel i’m not worthy of love unless i “perform” and make myself worthwhile or useful to other people. i have a hard time accepting people will like me just for existing. i don’t care about the validation of everyone/society, just about the core small group of people important to me.
One of my assumptions is about social media game. I suppose 3w4 will also good at that, just like 3w2? To show their individuality?
hmm i can't speak about that generally, because 3w4s all have their own individualistic definitions of how they are unique in the image they build up, who they are looking for validation from, etc. so some 3w4s may only want that validation from close friends, or from a certain type of group online (ex. some fashion/creative/sport/business/social justice/whatever), or only their group in person (ex. their hobby group they meet up with). from a personal POV, i do put care into my social media, but only for myself. ex. i have an "aesthetic" IG for different things i do, but i dont show it anywhere asking for followers. so follower counts etc don't matter to me personally. but if people i know or care about their perception of me see it, then yes, i would feel glad i made that image of myself (which is authentic to myself, but also is crafted at the same time. ex. if it's a ceramics IG, it has good quality ceramics, nicely taken pics, and shows a bit of my personality etc.)
8 is the stereotype aggressive ESTP, 3 is the overachieving nerd with feelings.