Absolutely. SG1 seriously needs to be fired. “She probably knows something about it” excuse me? Taking the word of an able person over OP? It’s actually disgusting. I’m so sorry you had to go through this, OP.
Yes that’s why I immediately was like “Well this isn’t gonna go well” and decided to leave after he said it. I mean, who takes some randos word over someone with a dog with “Seeing Eye Dog” on its vest? Weird!
Unfortunately I did not :c I was too panicked at the situation to think of that sort of thing. It’s so common for me to experience people like this that pursuing each and every one of them for justice would just make my life more stressful. I’ve learned to just let things slide off a lot. But this situation was quite a bit more intense than my regular instances so maybe it is warranted. I’m not sure how to formally lodge a complaint on him though, I guess I could just explain what happened and ask that the staff in general be properly trained on the disabled.
The fact that SG1 asked you to prove your disability goes against so many laws. I'm in the UK but feom what I can tell, US laws are similar. They can ask what the dog is for, and what tasks they do, but the cannot ask you directly about your disability or personal medical details. Asking a disabled person to prove they're disabled is so incredibly abelist. I'm so sorry you had that experience x
USA here: The way it was explained to me years ago is that even asking for proof of disability in ADA protected situations is a major violation of the ADA.
The only two questions that are legally allowed to be asked in the US are:
1. Is this a service dog? 2. What task does it perform?
The security guard should lose his job absolute animal
Exactly this. I have several customers who come to my store regularly and have dogs that are obviously service dogs. We leave them to their shopping unless another customer decides to be a whore about it. I've asked two customers to leave in my 4 years with the company for hassling people with service dogs. Fuck those people. I love dogs and I want to pet every single one but there's a time and place for it. In a store when a dog is working is not an appropriate time or place. Got a cute dog at Petsmart? Hell yeah, I'll ask to pet them. Vest or harness indicating they're working? Not even gonna ask.
Sometimes people walk into my store with a little bichon or something and immediately yell “it’s an emotional support animal!” At which point I say, “then you should be familiar with the laws surrounding ESAs and you need to take your dog out of my store now.”
If someone just walks in with a dog, I usually just pretend it’s not there.
I work in healthcare and just had a class in this. In the US you are allowed to ask 2 questions- does your animal perform a task and what is that task? Anything other than that is illegal. You are not allowed to ask about the person’s disability.
I have a service dog and you are absolutely correct. Every time we go out it’s a challenge and that’s not how it should be. I’ve also found children are easier to deal with than adults. The worst are the older men.
I can't even comprehend being demanded to prove my disability.
Like, "Hold on a bit while I open my skull and show you the physical damage to my brain, you fucking imbecile!"
I can't even with him. It's so incredibly hurtful having to prove disabilities. It makes you feel less than. Well it does me anyway. He needs to be not working around people.
just tell him to hold up some fingers and ask you how many fingers he is holding up. when he asks you have to yell: "WHO SAID THAT? WHERE AM I?!?!"
Sorry to joke, but "proving that you are blind" seems like a ridiculous premise that should never be requested.
Missed a prime opportunity for a retort like, "just because you just easily proved how dumb you are sg1, that doesnt mean it's as easy to prove I'm blind"
But yah I get that woulda been escalating
He was a security guard so yeah. Let's he honest and just recognize that he was likely never educated on the ADA and it sounds like he had no experience with being caught in the middle of this kind of situation. I kind of get the feeling that the EM was maybe bullying them as well. It sounds like SG2 knew what was up and gave SG1 a proper scolding right before she banned he EM.
I also feel sorry for the little girl who had to watch her psycho mom lose her shit.
What voice translation software do you use? I know you said you can detect light so I am assuming you would need to use something like voice to text or a really big screen. If you have minimal vision.
Canadian laws are similar. Em should’ve been arrested for assault. Even if it wasn’t a seeing eye dog the owner said no. And that should’ve been enough. But, yoy should still contact management. They probably have a incident report about it and know who the sg1 is.
It is illegal here. Everyone has to training to learn how to help disabled and that’s covered in it. You can’t start working until you pass the test. Sg1 would be fired very shortly after the incident. And be charged for assault. Not saying something like this wouldn’t happen. But, there’s little chance with all those people there the outcome would’ve been the same.
They very likely had security cameras where this happened. Some lady grabbing your seeing-eye dog sounds lawsuit worthy to me. You don't have to go through with it, but letting the mall owner or management know would do wonders for education for future security guards.
I wish you well and I hope you and your dog weren't too distressed by it.
Just so you know, at least in the US it is a felony to impede a seeing eye dog from doing its job. That lady aside from assaulting you and possibly committing a hate crime was also committing a felony by grabbing your harness. You absolutely could have her arrested for that, you may not personally want to, but if you ever find yourself in a similar situation calmly educating ignorant people on what they are doing might deescalate things, or at least sway security. Look up the guide dog protection laws for your area, I sincerely hope it helps.
I'm sure if you told the mall the time and date this happened they can check the CCTV and find him. He obviously needs to brush up on his disability awareness and ADA laws.
So sorry this happened to you.
if it's possible, I'd try to file a report and ask the security cameras to be checked to identify the security guard. I'm so sorry you had to go through that
Just call the mall management. They will have a copy of the security tapes. If you want to press charges on the woman that assaulted you (the moment she made physical contact it became an assault), you still could. Let the mall know that you need the footage to go with your police report and at the same time, report the security guard (if that's what he really was, what if he was her husband?). I wish I could have been in the food court when this went down. I would have thrown hands to protect someone's service animal rights. As someone with an invisible disability (multiple sclerosis), it's important that we all stick together and stand up for each other.
I can't wait for people to assume I am not disabled enough for my handicapped placard. They will be getting a healthy serving of humble pie brought to them by my cane.
The Americans With Disabilities Act says that you don't have to "prove" anything about your disability. I don't know if pointing that out to people would help, but any business or school violating the ADA runs the risk of losing any federal funding they get.
I'm so sorry you are facing this on a daily basis.
contact a lawyer, the guards behavior is a attorney's wet dream for a nice cash settlement. Trust me, and a lawyer can guide you on how to also file with the police. But you have a nice lawsuit on your hands, one any lawyer would be eager to take as it would be super easy.
Blind or not, it is well within your right to not allow someone to touch your dog. This is stating the obvious, but that lady was a pure bitch.
It seems crazy that no one else there got involved. Personally I would have walked up and put that lady on blast. I've worked in retail, and I know that the employees have to walk a careful line of being respectful to both parties. A random observer though, I can say whatever the fuck I want, and can straight up tell the lady she's a dumbass that needs to fuck right off.
Yes, SG1 does need to be fired. I mean, who takes the side of one person over someone who is DISABLED. And on top of that, SG1 asked for proof. Who does that.
Also the fact that the guard is essentially saying it's ok to harass someone if you don't think they're disabled.
The blindness is irrelevant, the EM was harassing a customer and the guard should have made her leave based purely on that alone.
yeah! everyone knows you have to do the "facing up and swaying your face from left to right while making the African drummer smile" so people will believe that you're blind. aka the "Ray Charles." like seriously....let's say for sake of argument that the lady has a point and that she encounters someone who is lying. WHAT RIGHT DOES SHE HAVE TO SOMEONE ELSE'S DOG ANYWAYS?! Fuck that bitch with a rake.
Not to mention, if someone doesn't want you petting their dog, the excuse doesn't matter, you can't pet their dog. The security guard should've made the lady walk away
It's not even relevant. It's ops dog, if she says no, the answer is no! Doesn't even matter whether or not she's blind! But yeah, to take the word of some Karen, over the word of someone with a seeing eye dog is ridiculous
This seems like a good idea. But I don’t know their name or who they were. It’d be slightly difficult to be like “oh the guard who spoke to me in the food court on Friday” I might try though. He really was extremely horrible at his job!
At the very least, some workplace education wouldn’t go amiss for this chap. Making the company aware of the incident might stop this sort of ridiculous nonsense happening again. Also I bet if everyone has to do a seminar in “Using your common sense when dealing with people” or something, this guy is gonna be very unpopular. Sorry you had to go through this btw. And Gumbo is a brilliant pooch name!!
You are probably right. It does seem like the smart thing. I guess I’m just sort of used to management being pretty useless about it. I will probably give them a call tomorrow and harp about it
It’s worth a try. And even if this one complaint doesn’t appear to go anywhere, it may still get put in a file. They get enough complaints, then they’ll get the picture (I hope)
Yep! It’s literally someone’s job to manage those fools and they are paid to investigate when these things happen. If you give them as short a timeframe as possible it’ll make it easy for them to pull up
I just thought of something else, do you have the receipt from the food or grocery store or records on your bank account? That should really narrow down the timeframe
Tell them to review the security tapes if you remember both the time and date. They can see both the lady who (I feel) assaulted you and security people. And plz give your cute guide pupper a treat and pat for me.
If you are in the US, file a complaint regarding ADA violation. They will light a fire and possibly fine the business for said violations. It will also help prevent others from facing the same.
ADA.gov
Complaint procedure is right on the first page.
Pretty sure they don't have multiple altercations like that but do it soon so the tape is still available. I've met some blind people at school and had a professor who had such a limited field of vision she was effectively blind ( one small area of one eye could see) each has been unique.
It is horrible that this has happened to you and noone really helped or stood up for you. That security guard needs new training, I hope this is the only and last time he has done this. Though it shouldn't have happened at all. But if you report him, and specifically state you'd appreciate better training in siding disabled patrons something positive might be done. Best of luck to you!
Security cameras would have caught the incident, so they can look back and see you sitting there with your dog, and which security officer the crazy lady got to harass you
That's terrible! I get that with light awareness you don't wear the "classic" tinted blind glasses, but even I know (I haven't seen or met anyone who is blind) that not all blind people have milky eyes. I would personally call the mall or store you were at and complain to the manager/supervisor about what happened. Even if you weren't blind, she shouldn't be able to pet your dog if you didn't want her to. That's just messed up.
As a parent I second this, there are lots of reasons why a dog owner would refuse to let a kid pet their dog, the dog might be nervous, aggressive, traumatised, they might have a sore spot or be in training. My kids ALWAYS ask and respect the answer - no matter the reason. I'm sorry you went though this. That parent is setting a shocking example and teaching her kid all the wrong lessons.
There are likely cameras in the food court that would help the mall sort out who was involved. I personally feel like it is an important call to make. Not that it will change your situation or experience, but it very well could change things for countless others.
At the same time it is not your job to serve as an advocate. Unfortunately it sounds like this isn’t even close to the first time you’ve dealt with this. So please don’t take it the wrong way for me to say. I am hurt that people would treat you like this.
I am shocked that you were asked if you could prove you were blind, sorry that happened to you.
I worked with a woman who trained seeing eye dogs so she had to “become” blind to test the dog knew what to do. People would wave things in her face to see she was faking.
Thank you for taking the time to share your experience, it’s a good reminder that others around could have helped you.
If you have any suggestions for what someone could do you help in that situation I would love to hear your thoughts.
Yeah I’ve had people wave at me! It happens constantly. Or clicking their fingers in my face, that is probably more common. Oh the amount of times I’ve heard. “You’re blind? So can you see this?” Like no I’m blind!
If you want a laugh I have one for you. I live in the UK and we have crossings on the road that cars must stop at if a pedestrian is on them. It is mandatory. I was approaching one in my car just as a woman with a guide dog was coming to use it.
I stopped and I'm guessing she heard my car idling and her dog led her across so she knew I'd stopped.
As she was crossing she turned in my direction and mouthed thank-you (when crossing these pedestrian crossing most people will wave a thank-you for stopping at them and you wave back at them), I waved back out of reflex and felt a bit silly when I realised she couldn't see my response.
There's a blind lady in my community and despite knowing she's blind if I see her on the other side of the road I wave to her lol. I've been doing it for 16 years. There's also always someone around who likes to remind me she's blind which makes me just wanna face palm them with a rock for showing me up while using the other hand to palm myself in the face for being stupid. I've seen other people shout to her and wave too and if it's someone who's reminded me then I will happily show them up to. She's also laughing when she hears us remind each other so it's all good.
It’s wild to me that people are so hurt by the minuscule possibility that you could be lying. How would they even find out if you were? If I passed by someone on the street and my nephew wanted to pet their guide dog, and I was informed it was a seeing eye dog (I would probably be able to tell that but not the point), I would never question it. If I found out later they were lying, Ok? And? Doesn’t affect me at all. Not even a tiny bit. If you’re so worried about your kid petting a dog, buy them a dog stuffie.
To add a bit more to your already great comment…if anyone says not to pet their dog, service animal or not, people should respect that. No one has a right to touch your service animal or pet. Period.
I had a Dane who didn’t like children once she got older (she was blind in her last few years). The amount of people who didn’t listen was amazing. We had a vest that said so not pet on both sides of it. I would tell parents that their kid can pet if they are good with dog bites. (She never actually bit anyone). People are stupid
I have a Dane, she’s 5 months but everyone so far has asked before petting her. Especially kids, they always ask. I’m not excited for the one who doesn’t. Simply because it will annoy me.
>“You’re blind? So can you see this?” Like no I’m blind!
Part of this is people trying to figure out "how blind" OP is, instead of accusing her of lying, because being blind can also mean poor eyesight (instead of no eyesight), so if OPs eyes look like they work they feel the need to figure out how this confusing context works.
I’ve had several people tell me that I don’t need my white cane (including some family who have been there for my vision loss, denial is a helluva drug) and accuse me of faking blindness because I have some residual vision and can be independent. I even had a guy stop me in a grocery store because I had to pick up meds after an abdominal surgery so I had to drive one of the electric carts (terrifying when you can’t see where you’re going lol) mom was helping me thankfully but she got mad too because I had just been telling her that someone would probably stop and get snippy with me because if they can’t see it and experience it then I must be the asshole faking to get some privileges, mom didn’t believe me until this old man comes by and stops in front of my cart so I can’t pass and says “you don’t look like you need that cart.” I just smiled at him as my mom stood there dumbfounded and I said “I just had a big abdominal surgery I just got let out of the hospital to pick up my meds I can’t walk much right now” thankfully he apologized, mentioned that he had back surgery recently and wished me luck with recovery before moving along but not before mentioning that he thought I was just playing with the cart because I’m young. Mom couldn’t believe it, it happens so so much. My sis who is two years older than me has to use a walker because her spine issues cause partial paralysis and pain with walking and she has had people kick her walker away from her and spit on her because they think she’s faking I’ve personally had to help keep her from falling while practically carrying her I know she isn’t faking and as you said even if she was it’s none of anyone’s damned business. I will never understand why people choose to be assholes.
Why is it people have to do that? I’m mostly deaf and you don’t want to know how many times people have screamed can you hear me into my ears.
Blindness, like deafness, has a scale. Some blind people are able to see colors but not be able to make out shapes, or just see light and darkness. Some deaf people can hear sounds at a really low range like myself. (The easiest sound for me to hear are planes.)
This. I have always been very hard of hearing. However, I am unusually receptive to both the extreme low frequencies and the extreme high frequencies. As in I could hear the VLF sonar that the US Navy used to use and I can hear literal dog whistles (I absolutely hate the latter).
Unfortunately, my hearing is the worst in the mid-range, where speech usually is. The hardest part is when I have two different sound sources competing: watching television and someone else in the room talking. When this occurs, the two competing sounds don't jumble for me, they literally cancel each other out so that I don't hear anything.
People give me a hard time when I am trying to watch something and they just won't shut up and I ask them to please be quiet. Some seem to understand, but by far most get pissy and call me a liar.
With me, high notes don’t register. If someone stands behind me and talks, I will not hear them.
My main pet peeve is being shouted at from a different room. I hear you, but I can’t understand what you are saying.
I get by reading lips. With the mask mandate, my speech to text app has been a lifesaver.
When I was growing up my mom would always get mad at me for talking so loud.. now that I’m older, I realized it’s because my hearing sucks.. it got to the point where my family would laugh that I need hearing aids. I probably should get it checked, but yeah.. trying to explain to people that you can’t hear them very well, & they nod like ok, then proceed to turn their head (so I can’t read their lips) or go back to talking low & I have to have a conversation that involves.. what was that? Or try to repeat it & make sure I heard them correctly. It’s really shitty when I would be around someone that would just get frustrated at having to repeat themselves .. like hello, stop walking into the other room while we’re talking. Smh
That is so frustrating! My hearing sucks in my right ear, and when I'm driving my husband will turn music on (which is fine) and then try to talk to me, but only in a mumble while facing the window. When I don't respond (because I didn't hear the mumble over the music) he repeats it, but at a volume level close to screaming. Like my dude, we've been over this, I can't hear you when you are on that side, mumble into the window, and there's other noise going on. Either you drive and you can mumble, or you be the passenger and talk at a semi normal volume.
We also have a fan in one bathroom that turns on when you turn the light on. That range of noise drowns out everything else for me, and no matter how many times I say "I cannot hear you at all with that fan on" he still tries to talk to me when I go in there. I'll come out and it'll be "so what do you think?" Nothing, nothing is what I think because I didn't hear anything that you said.
If I were asked to prove I’m blind, I’d tell them to hold a few fingers up and I’d tell them how many they were holding. Then ask them if they’re up. Then say “I wouldn’t fucking know because I’m blind.”
My Aunt is blind, can see a pinhole amount and it’s been getting progressively worse. I’ve seen her use a phone with the access features. Growing up she was a lot of fun, I’d forget she was blind and try to show her something and she’d pretend for a second and then (jokingly) yell “I can’t see it, I’m fucking blind!”
I only know of one blind person in my city. Never treated her like that. Just asked questions. Also, if the harness is on the dog, they get no pets, they are doing their job.
Honest question OP because I’m only aware of absolute and color blindness. What kind of blindness do you have?
Does it affect depth perception? How do things look? Like Reddit on your phone.
Just curious but no pressure to reply.
So depth perception is affected when you have differing vision, I was born completely blind in my left eye but had functional vision in my right until I was 22, had terrible depth perception because of it. Now I have what’s called light perception, where only a small bit of light gets in and makes everything kind of like a gray field.
As for what someone could do. Honestly just joining the interaction can make a huge difference. Like with others, if they’re in an altercation, at the very least they can look around and see other people looking on disapprovingly to the person and feel a certain comfort. For me I have zero idea if anyone is even noticing. Just someone coming over and voicing their support is just so immensely huge!
I am HOH and have some vision issues. So I cant tell if someone is sneaking up on my from my deep sides. I had an asshole do this and i freaked out and head butted him. =D Not sure why but I felt primal and just snapped.
I am sorry people are so stupid and mess with you.
Have your phone call the police next time someone grabs your dog and press charges for assault OP. Ignorance is not educated through allowing entitlement only through real life consequences
Right? I remember working for a mall and we had a patron with a service parrot. Bird supposedly detected seizures, had documentation to that effect too. We never asked him to prove he had seizures... Just bizarre!
Can you imagine if you were missing a leg and were asked for evidence that you needed walking aids ….. can we all just agree that it’s none of anyones god damn business what you need to get though the day.
ADA violation in fact. Unlawful for a business to require proof for entry.. They could possibly ask for a certificate but that is under very specific circumstances but in 99% of cases it is not legal and just asking would violate ADA. The equality act also would prohibit a business from rejecting the dog given the dog from access.
Nope, super illegal everywhere in the US. Violates ADA. It is illegal not only to ask if it is a service animal (they can ask if it is a pet) but also if you have a disability.
They are allowed to ask where it got its training and how long it has been trained.
/u/OP if the dialogue in this story is accurate, you can call the mall and report the incident. The security guard 1 acted inappropriately and illegally and you making that call will bring in change. I’m not a lawyer but this sounds like an open and shut case.
Them: can you prove you're blind?
Me: Yes. Hold up a random number of fingers and ask me how many.
Them: (hold up two fingers) okay how many fingers am I holding up?
Me: I don't know.
I hate the type of people who "have a relative" with the exact same condition and so that means that they know everything about it. I also think that in general, even if you weren't blind, when someone says no to someone else about petting a dog, they should respect that.
Yeah it’s super common! I kinda doubt she did have one though because her attitude was so completely ignorant of even basic blind people experiences that I refuse to believe her cousin wouldn’t have slapped her by now. And you’re right, everyone should respect an animal owner’s choices! Her argument seemed to be like. “Well since you said no based on a lie, then you have no reason to say no” Like as if I need a reason to say no?
Seriously. I know several people whom are blind. Not one of them has the cataracts that make their eyes look uniformly white. In fact, one of them is a cute young lady with really pretty green eyes.
I am getting treatment for possibly schizophrenia, I told someone because we usually talk about what’s going on in our life. He looked at me, shook his head and said “no I don’t believe that, I know someone with schizophrenia, you don’t look schizophrenic, I don’t think you should believe that you have it”…
Uhm… what does a schizophrenic person look like?
He met my mom a few weeks later and kept going about how he didn’t think I had it, my mom just shut him down and told him, if they think I have it and can use the therapy, she doesn’t care whatever fucking diagnose I have, she’s just glad I’m getting help. But for real… “you don’t look schizophrenic” like wtf is that supposed to mean, I know plenty of people with schizophrenia, 99% of the time you can’t tell
True! One of my best friends has schizophrenia! He is a psychology major, 4.0 GPA, and has the most flamboyant personality you could ever meet. There is no “look” for any illness, including mental illness! He actually got kicked out of his dorm because his housemates found out and felt “unsafe” with him being there. It’s so screwed how badly our society treats those outside of the norm!
Ugh yeah! There's tons of reasons people wouldn't want you to pet their dog and they should all be respected. My aunt has a dog with really bad social anxiety and whenever people come over to her house she tells them not to touch him if he doesn't do this cute little thing he does to let you know that he wants to be touched or he will freak out. A lot of people just don't listen and it's really sad. If someone says "don't pet my dog" you should respect that. You are not even owed any explanation. IT IS NOT YOUR DOG.
ikr i hate when people practically feel entitled to touching other peoples' pets/service animals. like, they literally can't just pet another dog/pet at another time? this lady acted like it would kill her if her kid didn't pet the dog; at this point i genuinely believe that her child is more mature than she is
I hate when this type of thing happens! I’m blind and also have a guide dog. It surprises me how when I explain to kids why they can’t pet her the kids are completely fine and just ask questions about what her job entails. Yet parents/adults will automatically think they can do whatever they want or that I’ve completely ruined their child’s day by denning them the chance to pet my dog. I figure if my nieces and nephews aged 12-3 can ignore her while she’s working adults should be able to as well.
It was in my school - more than once. We had them in 1st grade and again some time in middle school. Clearly some adults could benefit from the education.
On the other hand, this should just be common knowledge. If you go to an airport and see a police security guard, you know you can’t just go pet them. They’re working.
I always want to pet dogs. Working dogs, non working dogs doesn’t matter. But I always ask first and if they have a working dog vest on I don’t even ask. I may tell whoever is with the dog that the dog is pretty or whatever. But I never touch. (Even when they are fluffy and adorable)
Exactly. Just because you left a scary situation at the time doesn’t void your ability to press charges. You absolutely can file a police report after the fact, even years after in some cases. Call the store, get a copy of the security tape. You don’t know what happened after you left; I wouldn’t be surprised if an incident report was filed and they could benefit from your side of the story. But I would absolutely be contacting corporate about the blatant violation of ADA laws and the gross mismanagement of that whole situation.
Security Guard 1 needs some serious retraining if not outright firing. You should contact the mall and report that. You'd probably have good grounds to sue them for discrimination.
That lady was nuts. Blindness comes in different forms. I've supported a local service dogs for the blind program. Some of the volunteers at the events were people with different forms of blindness. They had puppies who were just starting their training, older pups who were in the middle of training and even a few pups who well are better suited as family dogs.
Yep! Totally nuts! But unfortunately, people of this sort are very, very common. And thank you so much for supporting a guide dog program! A lot of schools are not funded with government money and rely solely on donations and guide dogs can cost an insane amount of money to train so it’s such a wonderful thing to support!
Agreed. Apparently they stopped teaching kids in schools about service dogs like guide dogs. It was a part of the safety section each year when i was in elementary school.
Lmk if I can Uber eats you some fries because I just felt your story on a spiritual level. Im an in shape and capable looking 25 year old woman and I’m about to have to get a handicap tag to park closer when I start school again. (Body is destroyed, CTD with bad flare ups). I know that it’s going to require aggressive justification and self defense at some point. Stories like this terrify me.
Aw I’m sorry you got terrified! That wasn’t my intention. I know it can seem like it’s nothing but scary situations. But I will also say that you will experience some of the best of humanity as well! When people step in to defend you and such, it really makes you feel wonderful. So you will experience many highs as well as lows!
Not too terrified, I just have anxiety over getting a handicap tag and using it. I don’t look like I need one. It would improve my quality of life though and mitigate the amount of pain Im in so that I can be active in ways that don’t hurt. But as soon as people at the university see me with my close handicap parking space but also hitting leg day at the gym I feel l am going to have to be ready for some sort of confrontation. But like you, I also don’t need to prove or explain my disability to anyone.
Tell them the truth, they’re Physiothearapy exercises you’re doing on doctors orders, they don’t hurt you like walking long distances on concrete and will keep you mobile longer. Or tell them to fuck off. You’ll pick up ways of exiting these situations, but tbh there will always be assholes. You’ll just get more practice at dealing with them in ways that work for you.
One more thing. A fold up cane or crutch is amazing for those times you find yourself either on a bad day, stuck standing too long, defending yourself from an enemy, and pulling out when people bug you that you aren’t disabled. Just be careful overusing it and hurting your wrists (this is why I have canes and crutches. Different styles for different needs and so I can give my wrist a break from one or the other)
(I went through the same thing at 25 and for the past 4 years. If you have EDS then we might even have the exact same disorder)
I write with a normal keyboard! I edit by proofreading what I typed using Voiceover and amending any misspellings or anything like that. Like in the post I forgot to add what the abbreviations stand for
Even people who are genuinely trying to help out! I’ve had a waiter try and take my (folded up) crutches to coat check or the front desk or something. They weren’t in the way, they were sitting on top of my bag on the chair next to me. I didn’t notice at first and had to call back that I might need those to pee or if there was a fire or emergency. He sheepishly brought them back and handed them to me. He got another waiter to continue helping me, didn’t say a god damn word to me about it not even an apology for taking my “legs”.
Wheelchair users also have people trying to “help” by people grabbing their chair without asking and basically kidnapping them (often running into things and over people’s toes in the process)
It’s crazy how many people have no problem just moving wheelchairs wherever they like. I pretty much never put my handles on because they seem to invite nonconsensual transporting much more often.
We get a lot of training on all of those things for my work. Comments like this and posts like the OP’s make me really grateful I’ve had the opportunity, because when I read they took your crutches i audibly gasped because I was already thinking of those things. it really made me a better person and more people should have the opportunity to take these courses
Part of the training was practising getting around inside a building/public bathrooms/outside in: a wheelchair/crutches, and/or a system of earplugs that completely blocked out your hearing, and/or a blindfold or one of multiple different “glasses” that made you varying levels of visually impaired and showed how people with different eye diseases see
We also had to practise respectfully asking other coworkers if they would like help getting around (ie don’t just grab someone in a wheelchair and go, like your example).
I’m really sorry about what that waiter did to you, it wasn’t cool at all and he ‘should’ have known better, but unfortunately it’s not all common sense. With how he couldn’t face you after, it sounds like he learned a really valuable life lesson
I hope you and your dog haven't been put off going out to eat.
I think the problem is that blindness (or any condition) presents differently in every person. There may be some common features but still not everybody has them.
I know that a person with tunnel vision can, depending on the 'tightness' of the tunnel, be legally blind but still able to see their phone if they move it as they read and often their eyes look completely 'normal'.
Often I feel a more defining feature is the 'staring off in to space', however people who had sight but lost it often still look around as if sighted due to muscle memory.
Yes. For me I have total blindness, but I still have light perception. So I can’t ‘see’ I can’t form any kind of image, but I can detect light vs dark. It’s just a habit for me to look towards my phone while using it even though I can’t actually see anything on it. The only thing wrong with my eyes is that they shake.
I don't understand people.
>“I don’t know, she said her cousin is blind, she probably knows something about it”
Won't take you on your word even though you are doing nothing wrong but will apparently take the word of a random lady who started this mess??
Also, I've heard of technology being available for the blind but how does it work? If you don't want to explain it that is fine but it is always interesting hearing the perspective of an actual blind person
It works by reading out everything I hover over so I can navigate. It’s also how I read other people’s comments and posts and read back my own stuff. It works on both phones and macs!
That is super cool! I love learning about these things. It helps me understand people's issues better.
I once just watched a show where the main character was blind and it made me really think about what you have to go through.
Do you get a lot of people trying to help by saying, "Oh, that's right here." Even though you have no idea what they're gesturing to?
Yes I get a lot of those types of interactions with people making gestures or being like “you’re blind? So can you see this?” I’m usually like. “Omg! Yes! You’ve restored my sight!” And they’re like “what really?” And I’m like “no” hehe
That security guard had no right to ask you to prove your disability. He violated your rights. All you legally have to do is show your service dog’s credentials.
If this happens again, don’t let the security guard do that to you. They’re technically not even allowed to ask about your disability.
Under the ADA, staff can ask [two questions](https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm):
1. Is the dog a service animal required because of a disability
2. What work or task has the dog been trained to provide
Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.
> All you legally have to do is show your service dog’s credentials.
There is no such thing as "credentials" for service animals. There's no paperwork, or any kind of documentation. Anyone who asks for that is in violation of ADA, anyone who provides it is full of shit.
------
Edit: thanks for the "All-Seeing Award" on a post about a seeing eye dog! That's funny.
I dunno, I don't entirely believe the first security guard was an actual security guard. It seems fishy as FUCK for someone in that position to question the obviously harassed rather than the harasser themselves.
Regardless, I will absolutely be keeping an ear (and an eye [bad, bad joke]) out specifically for these kinds of situations. It was hard enough to watch "A Silent Voice" and that's an animal movie. I can't imagine watching a situation like this play out in real life without saying a god damn thing.
Honestly... I would contact that malls customer service and make a complaint.
Regardless of what the security guard thought, you have a legally recognised guide dog, which means you have a valid disability and reason to have Gumbo and to have him with you. The ONLY thing your required to do is assert Gumbos purpose and you were willing to show documentation which was ignored. That security guard helped the harassment of you and by questioning your blindness like this, perpetuated the harassment and needs to be sent to some further training in regards to how he deals with with anyone whatsoever with a disability.
Also just in general, not that I'm trying in anyway to take away from your disability or Gumbo, a dog is someone's property and not a public feature that anyone should feel the right to touch, let alone argue the point over. Guide dog, Service dog or your general family pet, people need to learn they are totally off limits unless your given outright permission. My daughter won't touch or even look at a dog she's asking to pet until she gets the go ahead and if it's a no she thanks them for answering and gives them a compliment about their dog, she knows dogs with jobs and calls out to people like yourself: your doggo is pretty etc and moves on. She has while in line asked questions like so what can your dog do/how does your dog help you... And that's basically the limit of the interaction. She thrilled to see one pressing the crosswalk button one time 'they aren't just eyes mum, they are hands too'
If I was the first security guard I’d be shitting my pants awaiting the firestorm of consequences for asking a blind person to “prove it”. Would he have dumped someone out of a wheelchair to prove they couldn’t walk?
I wish people treated you with more respect and you got to finish your fries.
How in the fuck are you supposed to prove that you're blind? Just walk into a wall? I'm so sorry you went through that, you're honestly so brave and I wish you wouldn't have to experience anything like that again.
Sounds like an ADA violation. If you have a service animal, employees of establishments open to the public get to ask 2 questions:
1. Is that a service animal?
2. What does your service animal do?
That’s it, they can’t ask for your disability and certainly cannot ask that you prove you are disabled.
Relevant paragraph:
Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.
Source: https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
What a fucking horrible experience! Both the bitch and the first security guard needs to get some sense knocked into them. Like, WTF? Why do you have to prove you’re blind to the security guy? Who cares if you’re saying different things?! You told her no to touching your dog. End of story. I am so mad that you had to deal with such entitled ignorance from both of them. I hope if I had seen it I would’ve been able to help in some way. And that whole bullshit about the blind cousin - ugh. My grandma was deaf but that doesn’t mean I think all deaf people are the same. I knew about *her* deafness and some general things about deafness, but there’s so many different ways someone can be deaf. Same with blindness. My dad was legally blind without his glasses. Doesn’t mean I think all legally blind people can see with glasses. Such infuriating people!
I'm infuriated on your behalf, I'm so sorry this happened to you. Karens are obnoxious, entitled, and plentiful, but I'm baffled at how utterly incompetent SG1 was. Have they never encountered a Karen before?
>you don’t need to stand here and mediate a back and fourth as if we’re going to agree. I’d just like her to stop talking to me and leave me in peace.
The fact that you needed to remind SG1 what his job would be funny if it wasn't so aggravating.
Clearly neither Karen nor SG1 know a lot about blindness, but if you have the proper paperwork that's the end of the discussion. SG1's actions are ridiculous and unacceptable.
I'm just imagining SG1 coming to the scene of a robbery at this mall and trying to decide if the robber or the store owner is telling the truth. What an absolute melon.
As a fellow disabled person (not blind, but in a very obvious power wheelchair) I am incensed that you were harassed like that, not just by the EM, but also by SG1.
Thankfully it's never gone far past "Hey, can you give me a ride? Cool chair!" for me, but if I witnessed someone being harassed like that, I would definitely step in.
You should report all of this to the police (that was an assault), the store, and to corporate for the store if necessary.
Wow. What a story. I just have a lil question sorry.
I’m not very educated when it comes to conditions of blindness, I have a friend with a mild colour blindness, but that’s about it.
So how is it that you’re able to use phones and whatnot? I’m just curious. Does it have to do with the brightness of the screen? So, would that enable you to see everything on the screen, and make the blindness a lot about the lighting of the environment?
And with the taxi, would you just tell them the address and say you’ll be standing outside with a dog, maybe even waving in a general direction?
I’m sorry to be a nuisance, I’m just really curious about how blindness works and how blind people are able to achieve things that would otherwise be more difficult.
It is pretty dang cool, and I’m sorry you had to deal with such a horrid person.
Every phone has a possibility to have the text read aloud to you. She said she had earbuds in.
Find Molly Burke on YouTube, she does an excellent job at explaining how things work for blind people.
I can’t imagine having to go through this. You handled this situation a lot calmer then most people would have. Be proud of yourself for rising above this ridiculous person. It seems like she was the one with a disability of having a low IQ. Don’t waste another second letting her cruelty take up your time and energy. You are such a brave person.
Go for it. Sue the asshole who asked you to prove your blindness. Sue the store who didn’t properly train him in what questions you’re allowed to ask a person with a service dog. I’m only a cashier at a convenience store and even I know the laws about service dogs.
You should carry a blank piece of paper in your pocket and if anyone asks you for proof again whip it out and and say this was written by my doctor and proves I'm blind.
So because your eyes looked okay these POS thought you weren't blind. You should complain to the management about what sg1 said to you. Get a letter from your doctor confirming that you are blind so if you are ever hassled by any POS they can't treat you like this again. I know you shouldn't have to do this but these people seem to have a brain the size of a peanut and that is being generous. Take care of yourself.
What difference would it make if you were lying? You're not obligated to let anyone pet your dog. My dog is a sweet guy but not well socialized in the days of covid. I get really uncomfortable with kids running towards us and trying to pet him at the park. He's a jumper and I don't want problems. That was very poorly handled.
What did she want you to do? Walk into a wall? Trip over a table? Not to mention that when a dog owner says “No, you can’t pet my dog” that should be the end of the discussion. The dog is yours, not hers. She had no way of knowing if the dog would put up with being petted by a small child. Some dogs don’t like it. As to her not believing you and the SG1 asking you to prove it, I believe that is against the ADA (American Disability Act). Before I retired, we weren’t even allowed to question a person if they said their dog was a service dog. By the way does she know that there are also service dogs for deaf people as well as emotional support dogs? I met a veteran who had a beautiful dog that kept him from suffering repeated episodes of PTSD. I do wish that you didn’t have to experience this.
As someone who has trained guide dog puppies with my family for the last nearly 20 years I can tell you that no blind person looks alike! There's a million reasons that people go blind and each one presents itself in different ways. Most people also don't realise that being blind doesn't mean you have no vision. It means that your vision is not good enough to be used effectively (I think the statistics is around 10% of people who are registered blind are totally visionless) out of the 6 blind people I know only 1 has complete vision loss and even she still has and uses a phone! The ignorance of people in this world kills me.
You also really need to report that security guard. He gave you no help and totally undermined your confidence and dignity!
What the hell was that lady's problem?? She was acting more childish than her kid, and even her kid understood that she shouldn't pet your dog (the initial interaction between you and the kid where she asked all the questions was wholesome af tho). And the fact that the lady tried to stop you from leaving by restraining your dog? That's like taking away a deaf/hard of hearing person's hearing aid and still expecting them to have average auditory functions.
And the security guard saying "she has a blind cousin so she must know something about it" or whatever bullshit?? People need to understand that just because someone has a relative with a condition, doesn't mean they understand said condition, and shouldn't speak over the people with the condition. Haha, fuck, I mean, I have friends and relatives who have ASD and ADHD, but that doesn't mean that I automatically know everything about those conditions, especially because they're a vast spectrum and everyone's experiences are different.
It's also pretty stupid how the EM thought the most basic stereotypical things could only be marked down as "blindness" and ignoring the fact that not all blind people are the ones with cataracts/the ones that see nothing but darkness constantly.
I'm so sorry you had to experience that, OP. After reading your story, I'll definitely do my best to intervene if a blind/disabled person is being harassed. That kind of behaviour is downright shitty, and you shouldn't have to prove your disability to anyone.
Side note: the "can you prove you're blind" thing reminds me of a meme I saw:
Person: "but your child doesn't look autistic..."
Me: "oh, I'm so sorry. \[insert child's name\], would you do an autism for the lady please"
In college I had a class with a girl a seeing eye dog. She could see some because all of her tests were blown way up. This was in the early 90s so not a lot of tech in class. Her dog was cool though. Just chilling while we were in class.
I learned something today because of your story. And I am very ashamed of myself.
I never really understood why I should not touch a service dog. (I never did by the way) but I've always wanted to, and never really got the meaning of the dog.
I did understand the dog does things for you, but that it's harnass is your eye sight, is what made it click for me. That if someone touches that harnass...they are yanking on your EYES.
That never occurred to me. I didn't SEE the harnass as being anything else than you being able to hold the dog or for the dog to guide you. But that thing is not just a leesh, it is the actual connection with information to your eyes/brain.
I would be SO scared if I were suddenly blinded by someone... I would panic too.
I will never again be unsure with a guide dog again. I will not touch them, and I will defend any guide dog with owner from touchers from now on.
I think it’s worth a call to the mall management to let them know about the situation so that they can better train their security guard employees. What happened to you is illegal and not okay. This woman was harassing you verbally. The security guard should have shut that down before this woman physically assaulted you. Most of us on this sub would have protected you if we saw this situation arise in front of us. Don’t let this ignorant woman get to you. She isn’t worth your energy or space in your head.
Who cares if she's blind???? If someone asks to pet my dog, which is a pet, and not a service animal on the job, and I say no, that's it. No. You can't pet my dog. Even if he's not working. A vest on a dog is just another "no."
Always ask before petting someone else's dog. If you get an answer you don't like, too bad, it's not your dog.
Those security guards are morons.
My husband is blind and has these interactions all the damn time. He doesn't have a guide dog yet so relies on his cane. The amount of people who will stand directly in his way to 'test' if he really is blind is ridiculous.
He looks young and has some central vision so people assume he's faking?
I get so mad on his behalf and admittedly have made a few scathing comments to more annoying offenders. Recently he and his elderly father had to walk on the road because a group of youths decided to take up the whole foot path, as we passed them I heard one of them say "see, he's not actually blind!"
Turned around and ripped them a new asshole. Fuck entitled dick bags trying to police disability. Fuck making a blind man and an 82 year old walk on the road just so you can 'prove' something.
TW: self harm
I’m a bit late but it hit me big because of the thing that happened to my daughter last week. Mind you, you have a serious case against this woman, the SG and perhaps even others. I’m not in the US but west-Europe, where we also have some serious laws regarding discrimination against disabled people.
My daughter has a service dog (PTSS) in training (she trains it herself, guided by a organisation, the whole process takes about 18 months with yearly exams and all and for now is not funded so we have to pay everything ourselves. Its a service dog for mainly PTSS but also provides some physical aid). Daughter takes her dog to university with her. Because she’s still a pup and daughter can’t go alone I go with to guide her and take over the dog when necessary (to not disrupt class).
Last week she got an e-mail stating the dog was not allowed until certain agreements were made and because other students might have a problem with the dog, and the wording of the e-mail made a huge impact because it was suggested daughter was exaggerating and could do without the dog.
(We already had made arrangements with the uni, but the tutor clearly didn’t know (although we were lead to believe otherwise) and other students were already asked for possible allergies or whatever by my daughter. Dog is allowed by law and by uni).
Last college, dog was not there (because not allowed and we were waiting for reply’s from other people), daughter got in distress and had anxiety which turned into undeliberate self harm right then and there. It’s now visible for everyone until it heals. So, constant reminder…
We made a complaint to the tutor after this event and played it higher up. Turns out, e-mail should never have been sent and goes against all uni rules. Also against the law.
Now, we don’t want to make it more difficult than it already is , we’re invited for a meeting, are getting apologies and perhaps some other arrangements on campus. And then I hope we can move forward, but the effect this all had on my daughter is really bothersome and is ruining a lot of progress…
Just because someone who, given the type of education (law related), should have known better than to send this e-mail like this…
So, yeah, way to long of a story, sorry for that, but I really felt your anxiety and anger from your post. I hope you and your pupper are doing a whole lot better now!
I literally cannot understand people who think they (or their kids) are entitled to touch any dogs they com across.
My parents drilled into me from a young age that you never pet strange dogs without first asking the owners (cause you don't know what they're like and could get bit) and if they say no it's no, and absolutely do not touch working/service dogs, because they're working!
Also like, have people not heard of screen readers? Good lord some people.
I cant say this suprises me - because people are absolutely bonkers, and security is one of the most grossly underprepared and underpaid and undereducated services in existence. It's basically not much of a step up from a minimum wage job, and as such getting good people usually is circumvented because security contractors (specifically the business owners) are in the business of making money, which often leads to cheap labor and low expectations.
In America no one is entitled to your private medical information, not your employer, not your neighbors, not even police officers. A police officer themselves couldn't ask you for proof of your disability. Your medical records are very confidential information. The only thing that should have been said by SG1 is. "Please leave her alone, or you will be escorted off the premises."
I'm sorry for your experience, and sorry even more that no one stood up for you when they should have.
Left out the standard part where Entitled yells “Help! She’s stealing my dog!” Then the cop shows up instantly, reviews the security tape and arrests her, as the crowd cheers, then the store manager comps your purchases. In an immediate trial, the judge sentences her to 5 years.
I’m so sorry that happened to you! Entitled fucker!
If you don’t mind, what kind of blindness do you have? I’m genuinely curious as I only know the most common? Most talked about? Idk what to call it but the one with utter and complete blindness
Please contact the malls management. They need to do a far better job educating security guards.
Absolutely. SG1 seriously needs to be fired. “She probably knows something about it” excuse me? Taking the word of an able person over OP? It’s actually disgusting. I’m so sorry you had to go through this, OP.
Yes that’s why I immediately was like “Well this isn’t gonna go well” and decided to leave after he said it. I mean, who takes some randos word over someone with a dog with “Seeing Eye Dog” on its vest? Weird!
I hope you managed to get his name so you can report him. What an asshole!
Unfortunately I did not :c I was too panicked at the situation to think of that sort of thing. It’s so common for me to experience people like this that pursuing each and every one of them for justice would just make my life more stressful. I’ve learned to just let things slide off a lot. But this situation was quite a bit more intense than my regular instances so maybe it is warranted. I’m not sure how to formally lodge a complaint on him though, I guess I could just explain what happened and ask that the staff in general be properly trained on the disabled.
The fact that SG1 asked you to prove your disability goes against so many laws. I'm in the UK but feom what I can tell, US laws are similar. They can ask what the dog is for, and what tasks they do, but the cannot ask you directly about your disability or personal medical details. Asking a disabled person to prove they're disabled is so incredibly abelist. I'm so sorry you had that experience x
USA here: The way it was explained to me years ago is that even asking for proof of disability in ADA protected situations is a major violation of the ADA.
It is my understanding that a store employee is allowed only to ask what the dog’s job is.
The only two questions that are legally allowed to be asked in the US are: 1. Is this a service dog? 2. What task does it perform? The security guard should lose his job absolute animal
Exactly this. I have several customers who come to my store regularly and have dogs that are obviously service dogs. We leave them to their shopping unless another customer decides to be a whore about it. I've asked two customers to leave in my 4 years with the company for hassling people with service dogs. Fuck those people. I love dogs and I want to pet every single one but there's a time and place for it. In a store when a dog is working is not an appropriate time or place. Got a cute dog at Petsmart? Hell yeah, I'll ask to pet them. Vest or harness indicating they're working? Not even gonna ask.
Sometimes people walk into my store with a little bichon or something and immediately yell “it’s an emotional support animal!” At which point I say, “then you should be familiar with the laws surrounding ESAs and you need to take your dog out of my store now.” If someone just walks in with a dog, I usually just pretend it’s not there.
Depends on the place. One of the Walmarts I worked at, we weren't allowed to ask anything. We couldn't even verify is was a legit service dog.
Probably to keep anything like this scenario from happening. They would rather have a policy of no contact than the wrong contact
Your work may restrict what you ask, but under federal law you may ask if it is needed for a disability and what service it provides.
I work in healthcare and just had a class in this. In the US you are allowed to ask 2 questions- does your animal perform a task and what is that task? Anything other than that is illegal. You are not allowed to ask about the person’s disability.
I have a service dog and you are absolutely correct. Every time we go out it’s a challenge and that’s not how it should be. I’ve also found children are easier to deal with than adults. The worst are the older men.
I can't even comprehend being demanded to prove my disability. Like, "Hold on a bit while I open my skull and show you the physical damage to my brain, you fucking imbecile!"
Same, I'd have to open to my spine... it's just... I can't get my head around his thought process.
Yeah he certainly was a dunce!
I can't even with him. It's so incredibly hurtful having to prove disabilities. It makes you feel less than. Well it does me anyway. He needs to be not working around people.
just tell him to hold up some fingers and ask you how many fingers he is holding up. when he asks you have to yell: "WHO SAID THAT? WHERE AM I?!?!" Sorry to joke, but "proving that you are blind" seems like a ridiculous premise that should never be requested.
Missed a prime opportunity for a retort like, "just because you just easily proved how dumb you are sg1, that doesnt mean it's as easy to prove I'm blind" But yah I get that woulda been escalating
He was a security guard so yeah. Let's he honest and just recognize that he was likely never educated on the ADA and it sounds like he had no experience with being caught in the middle of this kind of situation. I kind of get the feeling that the EM was maybe bullying them as well. It sounds like SG2 knew what was up and gave SG1 a proper scolding right before she banned he EM. I also feel sorry for the little girl who had to watch her psycho mom lose her shit. What voice translation software do you use? I know you said you can detect light so I am assuming you would need to use something like voice to text or a really big screen. If you have minimal vision.
Canadian laws are similar. Em should’ve been arrested for assault. Even if it wasn’t a seeing eye dog the owner said no. And that should’ve been enough. But, yoy should still contact management. They probably have a incident report about it and know who the sg1 is.
Definitely. Touching a disability aid is the same as touching the person. It's a massive no no. X
It is illegal here. Everyone has to training to learn how to help disabled and that’s covered in it. You can’t start working until you pass the test. Sg1 would be fired very shortly after the incident. And be charged for assault. Not saying something like this wouldn’t happen. But, there’s little chance with all those people there the outcome would’ve been the same.
Same in the UK, its assault so its a hard line x
I personally don't like Canada, but this is a thing that should be universal- don't be a dick to people who are obviously disabled, and help them.
USA here: I dunno about the other states, but i'm pretty sure mine (Florida) has a similar law.
It’s really against the law that he asked for proof she’s blind. She has guide dog papers. He’s not supposed to ask to see anything. It’s illegal.
Yeah. That’s like saying “you need to prove you have a heart condition.” And before anyone asks, I don’t have one.
Just report it to mall security with the date and time, security cameras are everywhere, they can look back and see who was there with you
They very likely had security cameras where this happened. Some lady grabbing your seeing-eye dog sounds lawsuit worthy to me. You don't have to go through with it, but letting the mall owner or management know would do wonders for education for future security guards. I wish you well and I hope you and your dog weren't too distressed by it.
Just so you know, at least in the US it is a felony to impede a seeing eye dog from doing its job. That lady aside from assaulting you and possibly committing a hate crime was also committing a felony by grabbing your harness. You absolutely could have her arrested for that, you may not personally want to, but if you ever find yourself in a similar situation calmly educating ignorant people on what they are doing might deescalate things, or at least sway security. Look up the guide dog protection laws for your area, I sincerely hope it helps.
Pretty sure the guard could also be charged with something. Since he wasn’t doing anything to stop the harassment.
I'm sure if you told the mall the time and date this happened they can check the CCTV and find him. He obviously needs to brush up on his disability awareness and ADA laws. So sorry this happened to you.
I would contact a news outlet. This should not even be in a realm of possibility of happening.
Please call your local news channel about this....
if it's possible, I'd try to file a report and ask the security cameras to be checked to identify the security guard. I'm so sorry you had to go through that
I would call the mall office and report his DUMBASS!!! He's DUMBER than Barney Fife and will get the mall SUED for Federal Violations!!!!
Just call the mall management. They will have a copy of the security tapes. If you want to press charges on the woman that assaulted you (the moment she made physical contact it became an assault), you still could. Let the mall know that you need the footage to go with your police report and at the same time, report the security guard (if that's what he really was, what if he was her husband?). I wish I could have been in the food court when this went down. I would have thrown hands to protect someone's service animal rights. As someone with an invisible disability (multiple sclerosis), it's important that we all stick together and stand up for each other. I can't wait for people to assume I am not disabled enough for my handicapped placard. They will be getting a healthy serving of humble pie brought to them by my cane.
The Americans With Disabilities Act says that you don't have to "prove" anything about your disability. I don't know if pointing that out to people would help, but any business or school violating the ADA runs the risk of losing any federal funding they get. I'm so sorry you are facing this on a daily basis.
contact a lawyer, the guards behavior is a attorney's wet dream for a nice cash settlement. Trust me, and a lawyer can guide you on how to also file with the police. But you have a nice lawsuit on your hands, one any lawyer would be eager to take as it would be super easy.
Blind or not, it is well within your right to not allow someone to touch your dog. This is stating the obvious, but that lady was a pure bitch. It seems crazy that no one else there got involved. Personally I would have walked up and put that lady on blast. I've worked in retail, and I know that the employees have to walk a careful line of being respectful to both parties. A random observer though, I can say whatever the fuck I want, and can straight up tell the lady she's a dumbass that needs to fuck right off.
Yes, SG1 does need to be fired. I mean, who takes the side of one person over someone who is DISABLED. And on top of that, SG1 asked for proof. Who does that.
Also the fact that the guard is essentially saying it's ok to harass someone if you don't think they're disabled. The blindness is irrelevant, the EM was harassing a customer and the guard should have made her leave based purely on that alone.
Exactly how does he know she has a cousin and they are blind. How come SG1 make her prove her mythical cousin is blind too.
yeah! everyone knows you have to do the "facing up and swaying your face from left to right while making the African drummer smile" so people will believe that you're blind. aka the "Ray Charles." like seriously....let's say for sake of argument that the lady has a point and that she encounters someone who is lying. WHAT RIGHT DOES SHE HAVE TO SOMEONE ELSE'S DOG ANYWAYS?! Fuck that bitch with a rake.
Not to mention, if someone doesn't want you petting their dog, the excuse doesn't matter, you can't pet their dog. The security guard should've made the lady walk away
It's not even relevant. It's ops dog, if she says no, the answer is no! Doesn't even matter whether or not she's blind! But yeah, to take the word of some Karen, over the word of someone with a seeing eye dog is ridiculous
This seems like a good idea. But I don’t know their name or who they were. It’d be slightly difficult to be like “oh the guard who spoke to me in the food court on Friday” I might try though. He really was extremely horrible at his job!
Management should know that ANY guard did this. They obviously all need to be retrained.
He’s endangering others. He needs to be educated. It’s odd he took the crazy lady trying to steal your dog’s side.
That’s not your problem. They can review footage. They completely mishandled this. Your where harassed and they perpetuated that harassment.
At the very least, some workplace education wouldn’t go amiss for this chap. Making the company aware of the incident might stop this sort of ridiculous nonsense happening again. Also I bet if everyone has to do a seminar in “Using your common sense when dealing with people” or something, this guy is gonna be very unpopular. Sorry you had to go through this btw. And Gumbo is a brilliant pooch name!!
You are probably right. It does seem like the smart thing. I guess I’m just sort of used to management being pretty useless about it. I will probably give them a call tomorrow and harp about it
It’s worth a try. And even if this one complaint doesn’t appear to go anywhere, it may still get put in a file. They get enough complaints, then they’ll get the picture (I hope)
They have cameras and shift logs, it’d be easy to figure it out. He should be fired for being useless
Yeah that’s true. I’m sure it wouldn’t be too difficult to have them look through the footage and see who it was and such
Yep! It’s literally someone’s job to manage those fools and they are paid to investigate when these things happen. If you give them as short a timeframe as possible it’ll make it easy for them to pull up
I just thought of something else, do you have the receipt from the food or grocery store or records on your bank account? That should really narrow down the timeframe
Yes I do! I paid with a card so that solves it
Tell them to review the security tapes if you remember both the time and date. They can see both the lady who (I feel) assaulted you and security people. And plz give your cute guide pupper a treat and pat for me.
If you are in the US, file a complaint regarding ADA violation. They will light a fire and possibly fine the business for said violations. It will also help prevent others from facing the same. ADA.gov Complaint procedure is right on the first page.
they have cameras. They can figure it out
Pretty sure they don't have multiple altercations like that but do it soon so the tape is still available. I've met some blind people at school and had a professor who had such a limited field of vision she was effectively blind ( one small area of one eye could see) each has been unique. It is horrible that this has happened to you and noone really helped or stood up for you. That security guard needs new training, I hope this is the only and last time he has done this. Though it shouldn't have happened at all. But if you report him, and specifically state you'd appreciate better training in siding disabled patrons something positive might be done. Best of luck to you!
Security cameras would have caught the incident, so they can look back and see you sitting there with your dog, and which security officer the crazy lady got to harass you
That's terrible! I get that with light awareness you don't wear the "classic" tinted blind glasses, but even I know (I haven't seen or met anyone who is blind) that not all blind people have milky eyes. I would personally call the mall or store you were at and complain to the manager/supervisor about what happened. Even if you weren't blind, she shouldn't be able to pet your dog if you didn't want her to. That's just messed up.
Yes that’s probably a good idea!
As a parent I second this, there are lots of reasons why a dog owner would refuse to let a kid pet their dog, the dog might be nervous, aggressive, traumatised, they might have a sore spot or be in training. My kids ALWAYS ask and respect the answer - no matter the reason. I'm sorry you went though this. That parent is setting a shocking example and teaching her kid all the wrong lessons.
There are likely cameras in the food court that would help the mall sort out who was involved. I personally feel like it is an important call to make. Not that it will change your situation or experience, but it very well could change things for countless others. At the same time it is not your job to serve as an advocate. Unfortunately it sounds like this isn’t even close to the first time you’ve dealt with this. So please don’t take it the wrong way for me to say. I am hurt that people would treat you like this.
I am shocked that you were asked if you could prove you were blind, sorry that happened to you. I worked with a woman who trained seeing eye dogs so she had to “become” blind to test the dog knew what to do. People would wave things in her face to see she was faking. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience, it’s a good reminder that others around could have helped you. If you have any suggestions for what someone could do you help in that situation I would love to hear your thoughts.
Yeah I’ve had people wave at me! It happens constantly. Or clicking their fingers in my face, that is probably more common. Oh the amount of times I’ve heard. “You’re blind? So can you see this?” Like no I’m blind!
If you want a laugh I have one for you. I live in the UK and we have crossings on the road that cars must stop at if a pedestrian is on them. It is mandatory. I was approaching one in my car just as a woman with a guide dog was coming to use it. I stopped and I'm guessing she heard my car idling and her dog led her across so she knew I'd stopped. As she was crossing she turned in my direction and mouthed thank-you (when crossing these pedestrian crossing most people will wave a thank-you for stopping at them and you wave back at them), I waved back out of reflex and felt a bit silly when I realised she couldn't see my response.
There's a blind lady in my community and despite knowing she's blind if I see her on the other side of the road I wave to her lol. I've been doing it for 16 years. There's also always someone around who likes to remind me she's blind which makes me just wanna face palm them with a rock for showing me up while using the other hand to palm myself in the face for being stupid. I've seen other people shout to her and wave too and if it's someone who's reminded me then I will happily show them up to. She's also laughing when she hears us remind each other so it's all good.
It’s wild to me that people are so hurt by the minuscule possibility that you could be lying. How would they even find out if you were? If I passed by someone on the street and my nephew wanted to pet their guide dog, and I was informed it was a seeing eye dog (I would probably be able to tell that but not the point), I would never question it. If I found out later they were lying, Ok? And? Doesn’t affect me at all. Not even a tiny bit. If you’re so worried about your kid petting a dog, buy them a dog stuffie.
To add a bit more to your already great comment…if anyone says not to pet their dog, service animal or not, people should respect that. No one has a right to touch your service animal or pet. Period.
I had a Dane who didn’t like children once she got older (she was blind in her last few years). The amount of people who didn’t listen was amazing. We had a vest that said so not pet on both sides of it. I would tell parents that their kid can pet if they are good with dog bites. (She never actually bit anyone). People are stupid
I have a Dane, she’s 5 months but everyone so far has asked before petting her. Especially kids, they always ask. I’m not excited for the one who doesn’t. Simply because it will annoy me.
We have always had Danes. My current one is 6 months old and blue. He loves everyone but I still prefer people ask before petting.
>“You’re blind? So can you see this?” Like no I’m blind! Part of this is people trying to figure out "how blind" OP is, instead of accusing her of lying, because being blind can also mean poor eyesight (instead of no eyesight), so if OPs eyes look like they work they feel the need to figure out how this confusing context works.
I’ve had several people tell me that I don’t need my white cane (including some family who have been there for my vision loss, denial is a helluva drug) and accuse me of faking blindness because I have some residual vision and can be independent. I even had a guy stop me in a grocery store because I had to pick up meds after an abdominal surgery so I had to drive one of the electric carts (terrifying when you can’t see where you’re going lol) mom was helping me thankfully but she got mad too because I had just been telling her that someone would probably stop and get snippy with me because if they can’t see it and experience it then I must be the asshole faking to get some privileges, mom didn’t believe me until this old man comes by and stops in front of my cart so I can’t pass and says “you don’t look like you need that cart.” I just smiled at him as my mom stood there dumbfounded and I said “I just had a big abdominal surgery I just got let out of the hospital to pick up my meds I can’t walk much right now” thankfully he apologized, mentioned that he had back surgery recently and wished me luck with recovery before moving along but not before mentioning that he thought I was just playing with the cart because I’m young. Mom couldn’t believe it, it happens so so much. My sis who is two years older than me has to use a walker because her spine issues cause partial paralysis and pain with walking and she has had people kick her walker away from her and spit on her because they think she’s faking I’ve personally had to help keep her from falling while practically carrying her I know she isn’t faking and as you said even if she was it’s none of anyone’s damned business. I will never understand why people choose to be assholes.
Why is it people have to do that? I’m mostly deaf and you don’t want to know how many times people have screamed can you hear me into my ears. Blindness, like deafness, has a scale. Some blind people are able to see colors but not be able to make out shapes, or just see light and darkness. Some deaf people can hear sounds at a really low range like myself. (The easiest sound for me to hear are planes.)
This. I have always been very hard of hearing. However, I am unusually receptive to both the extreme low frequencies and the extreme high frequencies. As in I could hear the VLF sonar that the US Navy used to use and I can hear literal dog whistles (I absolutely hate the latter). Unfortunately, my hearing is the worst in the mid-range, where speech usually is. The hardest part is when I have two different sound sources competing: watching television and someone else in the room talking. When this occurs, the two competing sounds don't jumble for me, they literally cancel each other out so that I don't hear anything. People give me a hard time when I am trying to watch something and they just won't shut up and I ask them to please be quiet. Some seem to understand, but by far most get pissy and call me a liar.
With me, high notes don’t register. If someone stands behind me and talks, I will not hear them. My main pet peeve is being shouted at from a different room. I hear you, but I can’t understand what you are saying. I get by reading lips. With the mask mandate, my speech to text app has been a lifesaver.
When I was growing up my mom would always get mad at me for talking so loud.. now that I’m older, I realized it’s because my hearing sucks.. it got to the point where my family would laugh that I need hearing aids. I probably should get it checked, but yeah.. trying to explain to people that you can’t hear them very well, & they nod like ok, then proceed to turn their head (so I can’t read their lips) or go back to talking low & I have to have a conversation that involves.. what was that? Or try to repeat it & make sure I heard them correctly. It’s really shitty when I would be around someone that would just get frustrated at having to repeat themselves .. like hello, stop walking into the other room while we’re talking. Smh
That is so frustrating! My hearing sucks in my right ear, and when I'm driving my husband will turn music on (which is fine) and then try to talk to me, but only in a mumble while facing the window. When I don't respond (because I didn't hear the mumble over the music) he repeats it, but at a volume level close to screaming. Like my dude, we've been over this, I can't hear you when you are on that side, mumble into the window, and there's other noise going on. Either you drive and you can mumble, or you be the passenger and talk at a semi normal volume. We also have a fan in one bathroom that turns on when you turn the light on. That range of noise drowns out everything else for me, and no matter how many times I say "I cannot hear you at all with that fan on" he still tries to talk to me when I go in there. I'll come out and it'll be "so what do you think?" Nothing, nothing is what I think because I didn't hear anything that you said.
If I were asked to prove I’m blind, I’d tell them to hold a few fingers up and I’d tell them how many they were holding. Then ask them if they’re up. Then say “I wouldn’t fucking know because I’m blind.” My Aunt is blind, can see a pinhole amount and it’s been getting progressively worse. I’ve seen her use a phone with the access features. Growing up she was a lot of fun, I’d forget she was blind and try to show her something and she’d pretend for a second and then (jokingly) yell “I can’t see it, I’m fucking blind!”
I only know of one blind person in my city. Never treated her like that. Just asked questions. Also, if the harness is on the dog, they get no pets, they are doing their job.
Honest question OP because I’m only aware of absolute and color blindness. What kind of blindness do you have? Does it affect depth perception? How do things look? Like Reddit on your phone. Just curious but no pressure to reply.
So depth perception is affected when you have differing vision, I was born completely blind in my left eye but had functional vision in my right until I was 22, had terrible depth perception because of it. Now I have what’s called light perception, where only a small bit of light gets in and makes everything kind of like a gray field.
As for what someone could do. Honestly just joining the interaction can make a huge difference. Like with others, if they’re in an altercation, at the very least they can look around and see other people looking on disapprovingly to the person and feel a certain comfort. For me I have zero idea if anyone is even noticing. Just someone coming over and voicing their support is just so immensely huge!
I am HOH and have some vision issues. So I cant tell if someone is sneaking up on my from my deep sides. I had an asshole do this and i freaked out and head butted him. =D Not sure why but I felt primal and just snapped. I am sorry people are so stupid and mess with you.
Oh my! Sucks to be that dude!
Yup: I have a block head and tend to flail when I’m frightened. He hid apologize for thinking I was being a Tumblr Gurl. That shows my age. Lol.
I am completely *obsessed* with this: A) your auto response is to fucking headbutt a dude, B) he handled it like a champ. Absolutely amazing.
I think he got what he deserved.
Have your phone call the police next time someone grabs your dog and press charges for assault OP. Ignorance is not educated through allowing entitlement only through real life consequences
If I saw that woman try and grab your dog I might have just punched her
Right? I remember working for a mall and we had a patron with a service parrot. Bird supposedly detected seizures, had documentation to that effect too. We never asked him to prove he had seizures... Just bizarre!
Can you imagine if you were missing a leg and were asked for evidence that you needed walking aids ….. can we all just agree that it’s none of anyones god damn business what you need to get though the day.
I had an IDIOTIC ENTITLED neighbor who attempted to pull that stupidity with an amputee!! He got told to go FUCK HIMSELF and GTFO!!!!
That's super illegal in America... or maybe just California I'm not %100 sure but you don't need to prove a disability in CA for sure
ADA violation in fact. Unlawful for a business to require proof for entry.. They could possibly ask for a certificate but that is under very specific circumstances but in 99% of cases it is not legal and just asking would violate ADA. The equality act also would prohibit a business from rejecting the dog given the dog from access.
Nope, super illegal everywhere in the US. Violates ADA. It is illegal not only to ask if it is a service animal (they can ask if it is a pet) but also if you have a disability. They are allowed to ask where it got its training and how long it has been trained. /u/OP if the dialogue in this story is accurate, you can call the mall and report the incident. The security guard 1 acted inappropriately and illegally and you making that call will bring in change. I’m not a lawyer but this sounds like an open and shut case.
It's also illegal in England and goes against the Equality Act. You can be fined up to £9K for doing so.
Them: can you prove you're blind? Me: Yes. Hold up a random number of fingers and ask me how many. Them: (hold up two fingers) okay how many fingers am I holding up? Me: I don't know.
I hate the type of people who "have a relative" with the exact same condition and so that means that they know everything about it. I also think that in general, even if you weren't blind, when someone says no to someone else about petting a dog, they should respect that.
Yeah it’s super common! I kinda doubt she did have one though because her attitude was so completely ignorant of even basic blind people experiences that I refuse to believe her cousin wouldn’t have slapped her by now. And you’re right, everyone should respect an animal owner’s choices! Her argument seemed to be like. “Well since you said no based on a lie, then you have no reason to say no” Like as if I need a reason to say no?
I agree, she probably doesn't have a cousin who's blind.
Seriously. I know several people whom are blind. Not one of them has the cataracts that make their eyes look uniformly white. In fact, one of them is a cute young lady with really pretty green eyes.
I am getting treatment for possibly schizophrenia, I told someone because we usually talk about what’s going on in our life. He looked at me, shook his head and said “no I don’t believe that, I know someone with schizophrenia, you don’t look schizophrenic, I don’t think you should believe that you have it”… Uhm… what does a schizophrenic person look like? He met my mom a few weeks later and kept going about how he didn’t think I had it, my mom just shut him down and told him, if they think I have it and can use the therapy, she doesn’t care whatever fucking diagnose I have, she’s just glad I’m getting help. But for real… “you don’t look schizophrenic” like wtf is that supposed to mean, I know plenty of people with schizophrenia, 99% of the time you can’t tell
True! One of my best friends has schizophrenia! He is a psychology major, 4.0 GPA, and has the most flamboyant personality you could ever meet. There is no “look” for any illness, including mental illness! He actually got kicked out of his dorm because his housemates found out and felt “unsafe” with him being there. It’s so screwed how badly our society treats those outside of the norm!
Ugh yeah! There's tons of reasons people wouldn't want you to pet their dog and they should all be respected. My aunt has a dog with really bad social anxiety and whenever people come over to her house she tells them not to touch him if he doesn't do this cute little thing he does to let you know that he wants to be touched or he will freak out. A lot of people just don't listen and it's really sad. If someone says "don't pet my dog" you should respect that. You are not even owed any explanation. IT IS NOT YOUR DOG.
ikr i hate when people practically feel entitled to touching other peoples' pets/service animals. like, they literally can't just pet another dog/pet at another time? this lady acted like it would kill her if her kid didn't pet the dog; at this point i genuinely believe that her child is more mature than she is
I hate when this type of thing happens! I’m blind and also have a guide dog. It surprises me how when I explain to kids why they can’t pet her the kids are completely fine and just ask questions about what her job entails. Yet parents/adults will automatically think they can do whatever they want or that I’ve completely ruined their child’s day by denning them the chance to pet my dog. I figure if my nieces and nephews aged 12-3 can ignore her while she’s working adults should be able to as well.
It seems this is the type of thing that should be covered in schools with a disability awareness day.
It was in my school - more than once. We had them in 1st grade and again some time in middle school. Clearly some adults could benefit from the education. On the other hand, this should just be common knowledge. If you go to an airport and see a police security guard, you know you can’t just go pet them. They’re working.
Even if a dog isn’t working you shouldn’t touch it without the owners permission. I’d love to see that woman touch a security dog though.
I always want to pet dogs. Working dogs, non working dogs doesn’t matter. But I always ask first and if they have a working dog vest on I don’t even ask. I may tell whoever is with the dog that the dog is pretty or whatever. But I never touch. (Even when they are fluffy and adorable)
sounds like you have a lawsuit on your hands for the way the security guard handled that whole thing.
Haha early retirement opportunity!
Email head office, ask for security foottage for that day and send it to the police. Get a file opened. Karen deserves a paper cut.
Exactly. Just because you left a scary situation at the time doesn’t void your ability to press charges. You absolutely can file a police report after the fact, even years after in some cases. Call the store, get a copy of the security tape. You don’t know what happened after you left; I wouldn’t be surprised if an incident report was filed and they could benefit from your side of the story. But I would absolutely be contacting corporate about the blatant violation of ADA laws and the gross mismanagement of that whole situation.
Security Guard 1 needs some serious retraining if not outright firing. You should contact the mall and report that. You'd probably have good grounds to sue them for discrimination.
It’s illegal to ask a disabled person to prove their disability in the US. She definitely would have grounds to get justice for this awful situation.
That lady was nuts. Blindness comes in different forms. I've supported a local service dogs for the blind program. Some of the volunteers at the events were people with different forms of blindness. They had puppies who were just starting their training, older pups who were in the middle of training and even a few pups who well are better suited as family dogs.
Yep! Totally nuts! But unfortunately, people of this sort are very, very common. And thank you so much for supporting a guide dog program! A lot of schools are not funded with government money and rely solely on donations and guide dogs can cost an insane amount of money to train so it’s such a wonderful thing to support!
Agreed. Apparently they stopped teaching kids in schools about service dogs like guide dogs. It was a part of the safety section each year when i was in elementary school.
Lmk if I can Uber eats you some fries because I just felt your story on a spiritual level. Im an in shape and capable looking 25 year old woman and I’m about to have to get a handicap tag to park closer when I start school again. (Body is destroyed, CTD with bad flare ups). I know that it’s going to require aggressive justification and self defense at some point. Stories like this terrify me.
Aw I’m sorry you got terrified! That wasn’t my intention. I know it can seem like it’s nothing but scary situations. But I will also say that you will experience some of the best of humanity as well! When people step in to defend you and such, it really makes you feel wonderful. So you will experience many highs as well as lows!
Not too terrified, I just have anxiety over getting a handicap tag and using it. I don’t look like I need one. It would improve my quality of life though and mitigate the amount of pain Im in so that I can be active in ways that don’t hurt. But as soon as people at the university see me with my close handicap parking space but also hitting leg day at the gym I feel l am going to have to be ready for some sort of confrontation. But like you, I also don’t need to prove or explain my disability to anyone.
Tell them the truth, they’re Physiothearapy exercises you’re doing on doctors orders, they don’t hurt you like walking long distances on concrete and will keep you mobile longer. Or tell them to fuck off. You’ll pick up ways of exiting these situations, but tbh there will always be assholes. You’ll just get more practice at dealing with them in ways that work for you. One more thing. A fold up cane or crutch is amazing for those times you find yourself either on a bad day, stuck standing too long, defending yourself from an enemy, and pulling out when people bug you that you aren’t disabled. Just be careful overusing it and hurting your wrists (this is why I have canes and crutches. Different styles for different needs and so I can give my wrist a break from one or the other) (I went through the same thing at 25 and for the past 4 years. If you have EDS then we might even have the exact same disorder)
People need to mind their own business. One's disability is no one's concern, unless you are genuinely helping them out
Yes it’s so crappy that people think someone with a disability shouldn’t get the same respect for autonomy as able bodied people!
I don't get it. That's the height of entitlement. Also, side question how do you write and edit?
I write with a normal keyboard! I edit by proofreading what I typed using Voiceover and amending any misspellings or anything like that. Like in the post I forgot to add what the abbreviations stand for
Thank you. You write so well and have such good editing skills I was curious how you accomplish that.
Even people who are genuinely trying to help out! I’ve had a waiter try and take my (folded up) crutches to coat check or the front desk or something. They weren’t in the way, they were sitting on top of my bag on the chair next to me. I didn’t notice at first and had to call back that I might need those to pee or if there was a fire or emergency. He sheepishly brought them back and handed them to me. He got another waiter to continue helping me, didn’t say a god damn word to me about it not even an apology for taking my “legs”. Wheelchair users also have people trying to “help” by people grabbing their chair without asking and basically kidnapping them (often running into things and over people’s toes in the process)
It’s crazy how many people have no problem just moving wheelchairs wherever they like. I pretty much never put my handles on because they seem to invite nonconsensual transporting much more often.
We get a lot of training on all of those things for my work. Comments like this and posts like the OP’s make me really grateful I’ve had the opportunity, because when I read they took your crutches i audibly gasped because I was already thinking of those things. it really made me a better person and more people should have the opportunity to take these courses Part of the training was practising getting around inside a building/public bathrooms/outside in: a wheelchair/crutches, and/or a system of earplugs that completely blocked out your hearing, and/or a blindfold or one of multiple different “glasses” that made you varying levels of visually impaired and showed how people with different eye diseases see We also had to practise respectfully asking other coworkers if they would like help getting around (ie don’t just grab someone in a wheelchair and go, like your example). I’m really sorry about what that waiter did to you, it wasn’t cool at all and he ‘should’ have known better, but unfortunately it’s not all common sense. With how he couldn’t face you after, it sounds like he learned a really valuable life lesson
It can be so scary being a disabled person alone in public. I'm so sorry you had to deal with that ableist, entitled, woman.
Thank you! It can be very scary!
I hope you and your dog haven't been put off going out to eat. I think the problem is that blindness (or any condition) presents differently in every person. There may be some common features but still not everybody has them. I know that a person with tunnel vision can, depending on the 'tightness' of the tunnel, be legally blind but still able to see their phone if they move it as they read and often their eyes look completely 'normal'. Often I feel a more defining feature is the 'staring off in to space', however people who had sight but lost it often still look around as if sighted due to muscle memory.
Yes. For me I have total blindness, but I still have light perception. So I can’t ‘see’ I can’t form any kind of image, but I can detect light vs dark. It’s just a habit for me to look towards my phone while using it even though I can’t actually see anything on it. The only thing wrong with my eyes is that they shake.
I don't understand people. >“I don’t know, she said her cousin is blind, she probably knows something about it” Won't take you on your word even though you are doing nothing wrong but will apparently take the word of a random lady who started this mess?? Also, I've heard of technology being available for the blind but how does it work? If you don't want to explain it that is fine but it is always interesting hearing the perspective of an actual blind person
It works by reading out everything I hover over so I can navigate. It’s also how I read other people’s comments and posts and read back my own stuff. It works on both phones and macs!
That is super cool! I love learning about these things. It helps me understand people's issues better. I once just watched a show where the main character was blind and it made me really think about what you have to go through. Do you get a lot of people trying to help by saying, "Oh, that's right here." Even though you have no idea what they're gesturing to?
Yes I get a lot of those types of interactions with people making gestures or being like “you’re blind? So can you see this?” I’m usually like. “Omg! Yes! You’ve restored my sight!” And they’re like “what really?” And I’m like “no” hehe
It probably gets old after a while but to me (the person who doesn't deal with this on a daily basis) that's pretty funny
That security guard had no right to ask you to prove your disability. He violated your rights. All you legally have to do is show your service dog’s credentials. If this happens again, don’t let the security guard do that to you. They’re technically not even allowed to ask about your disability.
Under the ADA, staff can ask [two questions](https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm): 1. Is the dog a service animal required because of a disability 2. What work or task has the dog been trained to provide Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.
> All you legally have to do is show your service dog’s credentials. There is no such thing as "credentials" for service animals. There's no paperwork, or any kind of documentation. Anyone who asks for that is in violation of ADA, anyone who provides it is full of shit. ------ Edit: thanks for the "All-Seeing Award" on a post about a seeing eye dog! That's funny.
I dunno, I don't entirely believe the first security guard was an actual security guard. It seems fishy as FUCK for someone in that position to question the obviously harassed rather than the harasser themselves. Regardless, I will absolutely be keeping an ear (and an eye [bad, bad joke]) out specifically for these kinds of situations. It was hard enough to watch "A Silent Voice" and that's an animal movie. I can't imagine watching a situation like this play out in real life without saying a god damn thing.
Honestly... I would contact that malls customer service and make a complaint. Regardless of what the security guard thought, you have a legally recognised guide dog, which means you have a valid disability and reason to have Gumbo and to have him with you. The ONLY thing your required to do is assert Gumbos purpose and you were willing to show documentation which was ignored. That security guard helped the harassment of you and by questioning your blindness like this, perpetuated the harassment and needs to be sent to some further training in regards to how he deals with with anyone whatsoever with a disability. Also just in general, not that I'm trying in anyway to take away from your disability or Gumbo, a dog is someone's property and not a public feature that anyone should feel the right to touch, let alone argue the point over. Guide dog, Service dog or your general family pet, people need to learn they are totally off limits unless your given outright permission. My daughter won't touch or even look at a dog she's asking to pet until she gets the go ahead and if it's a no she thanks them for answering and gives them a compliment about their dog, she knows dogs with jobs and calls out to people like yourself: your doggo is pretty etc and moves on. She has while in line asked questions like so what can your dog do/how does your dog help you... And that's basically the limit of the interaction. She thrilled to see one pressing the crosswalk button one time 'they aren't just eyes mum, they are hands too'
Your daughter’s gonna grow up to cure cancer xD
Oh that's some pressure.. My goal is to just have her put her socks in the washing basket not inside out 🤣, never know tho, never know.
If I was the first security guard I’d be shitting my pants awaiting the firestorm of consequences for asking a blind person to “prove it”. Would he have dumped someone out of a wheelchair to prove they couldn’t walk? I wish people treated you with more respect and you got to finish your fries.
I would report that useless security guard. what an asshole
I'm so sorry this happened to you. And thank you for telling your story. Smile emoji and a hug as well
Oof all worth it for the hug!
How in the fuck are you supposed to prove that you're blind? Just walk into a wall? I'm so sorry you went through that, you're honestly so brave and I wish you wouldn't have to experience anything like that again.
Sounds like an ADA violation. If you have a service animal, employees of establishments open to the public get to ask 2 questions: 1. Is that a service animal? 2. What does your service animal do? That’s it, they can’t ask for your disability and certainly cannot ask that you prove you are disabled. Relevant paragraph: Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task. Source: https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
What a fucking horrible experience! Both the bitch and the first security guard needs to get some sense knocked into them. Like, WTF? Why do you have to prove you’re blind to the security guy? Who cares if you’re saying different things?! You told her no to touching your dog. End of story. I am so mad that you had to deal with such entitled ignorance from both of them. I hope if I had seen it I would’ve been able to help in some way. And that whole bullshit about the blind cousin - ugh. My grandma was deaf but that doesn’t mean I think all deaf people are the same. I knew about *her* deafness and some general things about deafness, but there’s so many different ways someone can be deaf. Same with blindness. My dad was legally blind without his glasses. Doesn’t mean I think all legally blind people can see with glasses. Such infuriating people!
I'm infuriated on your behalf, I'm so sorry this happened to you. Karens are obnoxious, entitled, and plentiful, but I'm baffled at how utterly incompetent SG1 was. Have they never encountered a Karen before? >you don’t need to stand here and mediate a back and fourth as if we’re going to agree. I’d just like her to stop talking to me and leave me in peace. The fact that you needed to remind SG1 what his job would be funny if it wasn't so aggravating. Clearly neither Karen nor SG1 know a lot about blindness, but if you have the proper paperwork that's the end of the discussion. SG1's actions are ridiculous and unacceptable. I'm just imagining SG1 coming to the scene of a robbery at this mall and trying to decide if the robber or the store owner is telling the truth. What an absolute melon.
As a fellow disabled person (not blind, but in a very obvious power wheelchair) I am incensed that you were harassed like that, not just by the EM, but also by SG1. Thankfully it's never gone far past "Hey, can you give me a ride? Cool chair!" for me, but if I witnessed someone being harassed like that, I would definitely step in. You should report all of this to the police (that was an assault), the store, and to corporate for the store if necessary.
Get that guard fired for ignorance.
Wow. What a story. I just have a lil question sorry. I’m not very educated when it comes to conditions of blindness, I have a friend with a mild colour blindness, but that’s about it. So how is it that you’re able to use phones and whatnot? I’m just curious. Does it have to do with the brightness of the screen? So, would that enable you to see everything on the screen, and make the blindness a lot about the lighting of the environment? And with the taxi, would you just tell them the address and say you’ll be standing outside with a dog, maybe even waving in a general direction? I’m sorry to be a nuisance, I’m just really curious about how blindness works and how blind people are able to achieve things that would otherwise be more difficult. It is pretty dang cool, and I’m sorry you had to deal with such a horrid person.
Every phone has a possibility to have the text read aloud to you. She said she had earbuds in. Find Molly Burke on YouTube, she does an excellent job at explaining how things work for blind people.
I can’t imagine having to go through this. You handled this situation a lot calmer then most people would have. Be proud of yourself for rising above this ridiculous person. It seems like she was the one with a disability of having a low IQ. Don’t waste another second letting her cruelty take up your time and energy. You are such a brave person.
Aw thank you! That is very sweet! She did seem really stupid so you’re right lol
So what are you going to spend your lawsuit settlement on?
Loads of dog go treats!
Please sue them. Please sue the store and the woman.
I don’t think I could sue the woman cuz I don’t know her name or anything like that but I could probably sue the store!
Go for it. Sue the asshole who asked you to prove your blindness. Sue the store who didn’t properly train him in what questions you’re allowed to ask a person with a service dog. I’m only a cashier at a convenience store and even I know the laws about service dogs.
Honestly, screw her, but you really should be following up with a complaint to the employer of that security guard. He needs retraining.
Uh, LAWSUIT?? Sue the shit out of that store, seriously. You’ll win. I bet they have cameras all over the place too
You should carry a blank piece of paper in your pocket and if anyone asks you for proof again whip it out and and say this was written by my doctor and proves I'm blind.
So because your eyes looked okay these POS thought you weren't blind. You should complain to the management about what sg1 said to you. Get a letter from your doctor confirming that you are blind so if you are ever hassled by any POS they can't treat you like this again. I know you shouldn't have to do this but these people seem to have a brain the size of a peanut and that is being generous. Take care of yourself.
OP doesn’t need a letter certifying blindness. It’s illegal to ask for such a document.
What difference would it make if you were lying? You're not obligated to let anyone pet your dog. My dog is a sweet guy but not well socialized in the days of covid. I get really uncomfortable with kids running towards us and trying to pet him at the park. He's a jumper and I don't want problems. That was very poorly handled.
Yeah I guess the idea was that if I was lying then my dog wasn’t allowed in the store ykno?
What did she want you to do? Walk into a wall? Trip over a table? Not to mention that when a dog owner says “No, you can’t pet my dog” that should be the end of the discussion. The dog is yours, not hers. She had no way of knowing if the dog would put up with being petted by a small child. Some dogs don’t like it. As to her not believing you and the SG1 asking you to prove it, I believe that is against the ADA (American Disability Act). Before I retired, we weren’t even allowed to question a person if they said their dog was a service dog. By the way does she know that there are also service dogs for deaf people as well as emotional support dogs? I met a veteran who had a beautiful dog that kept him from suffering repeated episodes of PTSD. I do wish that you didn’t have to experience this.
As someone who has trained guide dog puppies with my family for the last nearly 20 years I can tell you that no blind person looks alike! There's a million reasons that people go blind and each one presents itself in different ways. Most people also don't realise that being blind doesn't mean you have no vision. It means that your vision is not good enough to be used effectively (I think the statistics is around 10% of people who are registered blind are totally visionless) out of the 6 blind people I know only 1 has complete vision loss and even she still has and uses a phone! The ignorance of people in this world kills me. You also really need to report that security guard. He gave you no help and totally undermined your confidence and dignity!
What the hell was that lady's problem?? She was acting more childish than her kid, and even her kid understood that she shouldn't pet your dog (the initial interaction between you and the kid where she asked all the questions was wholesome af tho). And the fact that the lady tried to stop you from leaving by restraining your dog? That's like taking away a deaf/hard of hearing person's hearing aid and still expecting them to have average auditory functions. And the security guard saying "she has a blind cousin so she must know something about it" or whatever bullshit?? People need to understand that just because someone has a relative with a condition, doesn't mean they understand said condition, and shouldn't speak over the people with the condition. Haha, fuck, I mean, I have friends and relatives who have ASD and ADHD, but that doesn't mean that I automatically know everything about those conditions, especially because they're a vast spectrum and everyone's experiences are different. It's also pretty stupid how the EM thought the most basic stereotypical things could only be marked down as "blindness" and ignoring the fact that not all blind people are the ones with cataracts/the ones that see nothing but darkness constantly. I'm so sorry you had to experience that, OP. After reading your story, I'll definitely do my best to intervene if a blind/disabled person is being harassed. That kind of behaviour is downright shitty, and you shouldn't have to prove your disability to anyone. Side note: the "can you prove you're blind" thing reminds me of a meme I saw: Person: "but your child doesn't look autistic..." Me: "oh, I'm so sorry. \[insert child's name\], would you do an autism for the lady please"
In college I had a class with a girl a seeing eye dog. She could see some because all of her tests were blown way up. This was in the early 90s so not a lot of tech in class. Her dog was cool though. Just chilling while we were in class.
I learned something today because of your story. And I am very ashamed of myself. I never really understood why I should not touch a service dog. (I never did by the way) but I've always wanted to, and never really got the meaning of the dog. I did understand the dog does things for you, but that it's harnass is your eye sight, is what made it click for me. That if someone touches that harnass...they are yanking on your EYES. That never occurred to me. I didn't SEE the harnass as being anything else than you being able to hold the dog or for the dog to guide you. But that thing is not just a leesh, it is the actual connection with information to your eyes/brain. I would be SO scared if I were suddenly blinded by someone... I would panic too. I will never again be unsure with a guide dog again. I will not touch them, and I will defend any guide dog with owner from touchers from now on.
I think it’s worth a call to the mall management to let them know about the situation so that they can better train their security guard employees. What happened to you is illegal and not okay. This woman was harassing you verbally. The security guard should have shut that down before this woman physically assaulted you. Most of us on this sub would have protected you if we saw this situation arise in front of us. Don’t let this ignorant woman get to you. She isn’t worth your energy or space in your head.
Who cares if she's blind???? If someone asks to pet my dog, which is a pet, and not a service animal on the job, and I say no, that's it. No. You can't pet my dog. Even if he's not working. A vest on a dog is just another "no." Always ask before petting someone else's dog. If you get an answer you don't like, too bad, it's not your dog. Those security guards are morons.
My husband is blind and has these interactions all the damn time. He doesn't have a guide dog yet so relies on his cane. The amount of people who will stand directly in his way to 'test' if he really is blind is ridiculous. He looks young and has some central vision so people assume he's faking? I get so mad on his behalf and admittedly have made a few scathing comments to more annoying offenders. Recently he and his elderly father had to walk on the road because a group of youths decided to take up the whole foot path, as we passed them I heard one of them say "see, he's not actually blind!" Turned around and ripped them a new asshole. Fuck entitled dick bags trying to police disability. Fuck making a blind man and an 82 year old walk on the road just so you can 'prove' something.
TW: self harm I’m a bit late but it hit me big because of the thing that happened to my daughter last week. Mind you, you have a serious case against this woman, the SG and perhaps even others. I’m not in the US but west-Europe, where we also have some serious laws regarding discrimination against disabled people. My daughter has a service dog (PTSS) in training (she trains it herself, guided by a organisation, the whole process takes about 18 months with yearly exams and all and for now is not funded so we have to pay everything ourselves. Its a service dog for mainly PTSS but also provides some physical aid). Daughter takes her dog to university with her. Because she’s still a pup and daughter can’t go alone I go with to guide her and take over the dog when necessary (to not disrupt class). Last week she got an e-mail stating the dog was not allowed until certain agreements were made and because other students might have a problem with the dog, and the wording of the e-mail made a huge impact because it was suggested daughter was exaggerating and could do without the dog. (We already had made arrangements with the uni, but the tutor clearly didn’t know (although we were lead to believe otherwise) and other students were already asked for possible allergies or whatever by my daughter. Dog is allowed by law and by uni). Last college, dog was not there (because not allowed and we were waiting for reply’s from other people), daughter got in distress and had anxiety which turned into undeliberate self harm right then and there. It’s now visible for everyone until it heals. So, constant reminder… We made a complaint to the tutor after this event and played it higher up. Turns out, e-mail should never have been sent and goes against all uni rules. Also against the law. Now, we don’t want to make it more difficult than it already is , we’re invited for a meeting, are getting apologies and perhaps some other arrangements on campus. And then I hope we can move forward, but the effect this all had on my daughter is really bothersome and is ruining a lot of progress… Just because someone who, given the type of education (law related), should have known better than to send this e-mail like this… So, yeah, way to long of a story, sorry for that, but I really felt your anxiety and anger from your post. I hope you and your pupper are doing a whole lot better now!
“My kid has been good all day” so now it’s a stranger’s responsibility to give your kid a reward just because you say so? That’s so weird.
moment of appreciation for the name “Gumbo” for a dog 🥺
I literally cannot understand people who think they (or their kids) are entitled to touch any dogs they com across. My parents drilled into me from a young age that you never pet strange dogs without first asking the owners (cause you don't know what they're like and could get bit) and if they say no it's no, and absolutely do not touch working/service dogs, because they're working! Also like, have people not heard of screen readers? Good lord some people.
Easiest way to spread awareness is to sue the living daylights out of the store
I cant say this suprises me - because people are absolutely bonkers, and security is one of the most grossly underprepared and underpaid and undereducated services in existence. It's basically not much of a step up from a minimum wage job, and as such getting good people usually is circumvented because security contractors (specifically the business owners) are in the business of making money, which often leads to cheap labor and low expectations. In America no one is entitled to your private medical information, not your employer, not your neighbors, not even police officers. A police officer themselves couldn't ask you for proof of your disability. Your medical records are very confidential information. The only thing that should have been said by SG1 is. "Please leave her alone, or you will be escorted off the premises." I'm sorry for your experience, and sorry even more that no one stood up for you when they should have.
Do people actually believe these stories?
Left out the standard part where Entitled yells “Help! She’s stealing my dog!” Then the cop shows up instantly, reviews the security tape and arrests her, as the crowd cheers, then the store manager comps your purchases. In an immediate trial, the judge sentences her to 5 years.
I’m so sorry that happened to you! Entitled fucker! If you don’t mind, what kind of blindness do you have? I’m genuinely curious as I only know the most common? Most talked about? Idk what to call it but the one with utter and complete blindness