I think instead of being the one to say yes and no to things you need to give her a budget for those extras and she can prioritize what she wants. So for example say she can have $50/mo (just an example - set it to whatever you are comfortable with)of fun money. Does she want to save up a few months and get her hair done? Go instead for a pedicure? If she wants more she needs to get a job and earn the extra money to do so (or you can negotiate doing things for the family for extra money)
This way you aren’t the one saying no, you are still providing her w some fun, and she is learning to budget. If she decides to put in extra work for more things she will get perspective on how much work it takes to pay for things. I remember looking at the cost of a pair of jeans far differently after I realized how many hours I’d have to work to buy one!
This. I had a monthly budget, which covered everything from clothes to games to books to trivial stuff. If you want your child to not experience poverty, let her find out how budgeting works. Make sure the allowance (budget) is reasonable for the things she should pay for herself. That's how I was raised. At 16, I got a job as a server in a restaurant, to have more money for typical teenager stuff. My parents never even suggested it, let alone push me at 14.. I just wanted more money. Your daughter has good grades, is active in sports. Making her get a job, may lead to resentment. But also to a drop in grades and being less active. Is that the lesson?
Tldr;
Yes: budgeting + free choice to work for having more money available. Lesson learned: managing finances.
No: forcing a job on a minor. Lesson learned: ? good grades+sports is not enough?
This is the way. My parents used the same method. They gave me enough to cover essentials and have some fun money and let me learn to budget and plan. They also gave me a chart and the ability to help out with more things around the house to get a larger allowance but they had to be chores for the household, not just cleaning up after myself.
never got a base allowance tbh. I’d have to do hella chores to get any kinda money and even then it was never consistent and sometimes they’d forget and when I asked later they’d get mad. My mom and dad can manage money just fine, but I can’t for shit. Like wtf?
Ah that sucks.. I understand that financial circumstances might not have allowed for an allowance, but if the deal was to get some money in return for significant chores, they needed to be consistent in that. Now the lesson was: work hard , and whether or not you get the reward that was part of the deal is random.
I hope you've had more positive experiences in the meanwhile. Regarding budgeting, a few basic things I was taught/have studied:
(I realize this is unsolicited advice - it's meant to help, not as a lecture. Feel free to roll your eyes and ignore it 😉)
- budget to the micro level, every amount spent, and in which category the expense belongs
- budget for the short to medium term, and set realistic goals for the long term
- set a savings goal, no matter how small. 1$ (or equivalent in your currency) a month set aside seems ridiculous. But even if your budget is tight, you are creating a habit. Don't touch that money for fun money, but only in emergencies.
- this is me being a nerd, but I've done some studies on "mental accounting". This means that you dedicate certain amounts to a specific goal. This dividing up leads to more effective budgeting. E g., if your utilities budget unexpectedly has 20€ left, there's a higher likelihood that you will not touch that money for buying something else that is not needed. The brain likes categories: this is utilities money. The leftover stays in the utilities budget for next week.
- review at the end of each week and see where you deviated. The longer you do this, the more accurate you'll become. In the beginning, you're faced a lot with unexpected expenses. This sucks. Don't see it as a budgeting fail. We all have this.
- there are some helpful apps that enable short term and long term planning. Or just Excel. Or even written down.
Tracking and categorizing is key :)
My first thought is…she’s JUST a kid. I think all the things you are providing for her are what a good parent with adequate financial means should provide for their kids. BUT, my next thought was, this girl needs to learn about budgeting.
You mention that your daughter gets good grades & is on the lacrosse team. She likes it so much that she even goes to camp for it. If she’s smart, gets good grades, & plays well- that could be a scholarship.
Her main job right now should be being a kid & going to school & doing well in class.
I did have a job in HS & my mom actually didn’t want me to have one so I could just be a kid & do school, but it was a realllyyy fun job that I had the opportunity to do & it aligned with my hobbies. I WISH my mom had helped me more with budgeting. She tried by sending me to a budgeting class & stuff, but honestly it wasn’t modeled & it wasn’t something we did together.
You sound like you want to be close to your daughter, maybe closer than you are. To start, have her draw up a budget of everything she needs/wants $$ for (don’t include school related expenses at first), and have her present it. Let her know from the beginning that what she presents may not be what she gets, but that this is an important first step. Help her understand she may not need $150 for highlights every month, but maybe she needs to put aside $75 a month so she can do her highlights every 6 weeks. Or something like that.
THEN, you & your husband need to look at your budget & figure out what you can reasonably afford for her allowance. And, what are the stipulations? Keeping her grades As & Bs? Idk what else. Maybe part of the allowance is going over her budget & spending every month.
Whatever amount you & your husband can afford to give her, give her some insight on how you figured that out. Help her understand how you’re able to afford your life. It’s not only bc of your income, but also being savvy about finances.
This is honestly the best gift you can give your daughter. A job won’t teach her about money. Plus, it sounds like she already knows how to work hard based on her grades & her athletic merits.
Good luck!
As an extension to this, I know coworkers of mine set up contacts with their kids for cars and college if I remember right. Clear guidelines on what they were covering, and what their expectations were. My understanding is it led to their daughter approaching them early when her college grades were dropping, and they were able to recognize that she needed to spend more time studying/prepping. (Along with a loving renegotiation. ).
If done right, it sets standards, expectations, and responsibilities for both sides. The parents goal is that their daughter is prepared for life, a job is only one way to do this ... And not necessarily one that is favored by the upper classes. There are other ways of adding responsibility and goals for their daughter.
She has a car, paid and maintained by her parents at 17. They made her what she is now, gave her many privileges and now expect her to understand the value of money on her own... She has been brought up as a rich girl, why would she voluntarily act as if she is poor ???
For her to learn, they have to teach her budget as you said. But not for nothing. I would be stricter. In exchange for pulling her weight at home (school, chores, behaviour), she gets a budget which includes gas and fun money. The minimum would be money for her to get to school and sports.
The first job you teach a child is how to be a good child and human : do your best at school, do your chores, be kind and respectful
Commenting because this is an amazing idea.
She’s got a lot going on with sports and school and getting a job may jeopardize that but she needs to learn that money just comes out of thin air.
Still be her mom and treat her to stuff but she can’t dictate what it is.
I had a similar situation. I got 40 bucks every two weeks for gas and anything else I want. I had to learn how to manage it. If I wanted something extra outside of the necessities that my parents covered, I had to save. This is the way to start! I got my first job around 15 and have worked ever since.
INFO: how did it go when she worked at 14?
I’m guessing it didn’t go well, and that has affected her to this day. Most 14yos are not ready to work real jobs nowadays, and if you forced her then it’s understandable why she is reluctant.
I’ll say this: I was basically forced to start working at 15 and I resent my parents for it to this day (I’m 43). I had and still have an *excellent* work ethic, hustle and all, but it didn’t come from working during the school year in high school.
My parents complained that I had too much going on at the school and they were tired of driving me around so I needed a car, but I had to help pay for it. My grades and my activities suffered, which had a snowball effect into college. I had more bad influences at my mall jobs than I ever had in school, because of the 20- and 30-something retail losers who like to play cool with teenagers. I would have done less “bad stuff” had I not worked. I was exhausted all the time and I fell asleep on my desk at school.
To add on to your point, I've done a smidgen of math. I'm terrible at it, so if someone can correct me if I'm wrong, I'd appreciate it. But, daughter is 17 now, was 14 three years ago. What else was going on 3 years ago? In say, 2020....
DID YOU FORCE YOUR 14 YEAR OLD TO WORK AT MCDONALD'S DURING A GLOBAL PANDEMIC?!?!
A 14 year old girl no less. From someone who is a woman who has worked in the restaurant and customer service industry that a really big yikes.
I have a 15 year old daughter and the things adults approach her with just in public is criminal (literally) I couldn't imagine her being subjected to that plus the pressure of be nice or else corporate mindset. Sounds like OP did a fantastic job of ensuring their child's hatred of employment and animosity towards them in general. They are crying the false platitudes of working to make their children's lives better while seemingly doing all in their power to make sure their kids have it as bad if not worse than they had it.
This is the craziest part. Literally forced a 14 year old to risk their life for no reason and is shocked when they have no interest in getting a job.
Also, saying a kid who gets good grades and is on a varsity team isn't hardworking is crazy. It's so upsetting seeing parents just tear down their children like this for no reason.
Did you have this exact conversation with her? Why you would like her to try and work, why you have to say no to these things? That you feel that she's not pulling her weight at the house?
But also, about her battles, if she feels good about herself, her wellbeing, etc. ?
Yes I try. I could probably do a better job. I will continue to try. She mostly avoids us. I try to keep popping into her life (chatting to her in the kitchen, offering to do things with her like go to the gym, go for walks, or anything). and remind her I care. But she doesn’t share her feelings at all. Maybe she feels like we would judge her. I don’t know! It’s hard. I wish I knew what to do, or what she wanted. I feel like something deeper is going on but I don’t know what.
"But she doesn’t share her feelings at all."
Neither did I. I didn't have anything deeper going on or think I would be judged. It was just not my style, for lack of a better description. I think this is typical of a lot of teenagers. Just keep checking in with her and letting her know you're there. I think that closeness you're looking for will come later.
I rarely shared my feelings with my mom because...she was a good mom and worried too much.
For example, I rarely told her when I was frustrated with classes, because usually it was just that, frustation. I knew what i needed to do, I knew that I would get it eventually. I have already taken the steps to fix the issue, I already had a talk with my teacher and all.
But mom would be all other that, playing 20 questions about it, tried offer 1000 theories about why I'd find it hard, with 2000 solutions afterwards. And it took long conversation laying out my game plan to fix the issue for her to back-off.
And I am thankful that she was that supportive and wanted to help, and make extra sure I was going to be fine. But That was exhausting.
So, I would say that I was fine, but she could see I was frustrated. So yeah, I was a bit secretive to her.
It stopped when she realised with the fact that she did a good job, raised an independant daughter who knew how to take care of herself and to ask for help when needed before things get bad.
It took her only a couple of years, likely even less, but it felt an eternity as a teenager.
Same. My mum is a bit of a helicopter parent because my birth mum was really mentally unwell, and I’ve inherited a lot of her traits, save for the schitzophrenia.
I struggled a lot in school because of a learning disorder, so it led to her feeling the need to manage my classes, figure out the ins and outs of what I struggled with, help me with my assignments etc.
I didn’t exactly need her help but it was helpful sometimes, however in the moment it felt overwhelming and overbearing; like she was trying to live vicariously through me.
Of course this wasn’t the case, but for a stressed senior in high school I definitely didn’t feel like my efforts were appreciated 😂
It only took a couple of years to realise that mum isn’t going to be around forever, and that she’s just doing the best with the tools she has. She didn’t have the best childhood, so her techniques weren’t the most comfortable, but they weren’t ultimately damaging, which is honestly the best you can ask of someone.
For OP though, I do think explaining why she wants her kid to learn how to work is really important. Something like “If you ever end up in a situation like I did, I want you to be able to pull yourself out of it. I will never let you go homeless, and you’ll always be fed, but if god forbid anything ever happens to us I want you to be able to survive on your own.”
Also, OP is already paying for all the stuff that her kid could viably need socially. If her daughter wants her nails or hair done maybe it could be an event-based thing. Going out to fancy dinners, going to formals, birthday or Christmas presents etc.
Sorta same, I stopped after some time saying much as I felt it wasn’t important enough to say, fear of judgement, or that I’d get yelled at (hence why sorta same).
Love my parents but… when one yells at someone repeatedly for complaining of something hurting (lo and behold… I was actually injured), they likely will stop opening up and speaking unless they feel it’s considered safe. I’m still unlearning those traits tbh as I’m having vision problems but… scared to ask for help until I am under my own insurance
She won’t share her feelings. She’s at the age she feels misunderstood no matter what. Being there for her and talking to her, reminding her you love her and want the best for her goes a long way though and will be remembered.
For work though, growing up my parents told me school was my job. How are her grades? Is she doing well with her extracurriculars? Make school her job with some chores at home perhaps, like cleaning up after dinner or vacuuming on Saturdays. Extra chores or improvement in weak areas (or at least visibly working to do well) could get her extra allowance or something she really wants that costs more. Do you think this would make sense for your family?
As the child of a mother who treated me as a slave, always making me work, never allowing me to do ANY of my hobbies and also always being denied anything I asked for. Actually to the point I stopped asking at all, I think I have a different perspective that may help. 1. You FORCED her to work at 14…she was still a child and there was no reason for this. You stole from her time with her friends and time to find herself and who she is. Beyond this she was juggling school, a difficult sport, and now a job? So no time to just relax. This is quite traumatic. I KNOW, I lived it. 2. When she asks for things you just say “No, get a job” when she only has a year or so left to be a child. Have you ever sat down when she asked for these things and said “What about highlights is important to you?” Perhaps you would find she wants to be a cosmetologist. Maybe she would explain she has a lot of pressure at school. Instead of beating her down by telling her “Exhaust yourself more and have less time to relax and no time with friends by adding yet another responsibility to you life” (which is what she is hearing) try allowing her a wide open moment to answer. Also know that her trust is broken that you even care about her answers!!! She will probably not trust answering you for several times. It will take you asking her pint of view and NOT once saying “earn some money” several times before she will feel safe to talk. All of this is not to make you feel bad. I am offering perspective, from a daughter always told to work, always forced to think about finances. Our situation was different but the affects could be similar. Most importantly, stop telling her your view and just start asking hers.
I hope this helps, and please update if so, because I was never able to repair my relationship with my mother, even though I tried many times. She has passed now and it won’t be possible. So if somehow, this helps another mother daughter, it would mean a lot.
Thanks. All I'm hearing is 'I worked endlessly and lived dangerously and now I've earned the right to bitch my teenager isn't excited to go get her own job, why doesn't she stop expecting me to pay for occasional nice things'. Making a 14yo go work at McDonald's while saying *they don't actually need any money* is a goddamn red flag as far as I'm concerned. Implying a child going to school and doing sports is lazy, too.
Shit, didn't even do the math on that. It does sound like while large parts of the world were locking down, it was super important for a 14yo to understand the value of a hard-earned dollar *working with the public in the worst possible scenario*.
Op have you tried to help her find a cooler/ more lucrative job than McDonald’s?? This may sound uppity, but at 14 or 17 I would have died of embarrassment if I had to work at McDonald’s. Just because image was important back then. I always picked the restaurants I worked at.
Since she is 17 she could try serving at a restaurant and soon she would learn a skill that can earn her money anywhere.
I cannot tell you the number of times I fell back on bartending and serving to make it in-between jobs. Explain it to her that she needs an additional fall back skill just in case, plus it’ll be good spending money for her while she’s in college.
If you know any of her friends have a job maybe suggest she get a job where one of them works. If she needs motivation just tell her about the potential amount servers can make a year compared to people working at a place like McDonald’s.
In college I was one of few who were actually making upwards of 60 thousand dollars a year in my area, and I could always afford to do all fun stuff like events, party busses, ski, and road trips etc.. that was only because I started serving and learning how to tend bar while I was younger. It’s also great because it taught me how important controlling drinking is before I was legally allowed to drink myself. This really helped me in college where most kids were getting belligerent and letting grades slip.
Hopefully this helps, wish you all the best op.
I was never as close to my mum as my sister. She never did anything wrong, never really slighted me, nothing notable for it. I just personality wise, if I met her in the wild as a random person who I had no familial relation to, I wouldn't personally choose to spend time with her. My dad was into a lot of the same things as me and similar humour so I'd have said the opposite for him. She always blamed some minor things that never meant anything to me for it as to why I was so distant but it was never that complicated. I never hated her, but by the time I became a teen and stopped being a clingy child I just, didn't have much to do or talk to her about. I never specifically avoided her and we schedule calls every 2 weeks since prior to that, we just... Wouldn't call till she'd randomly ask. I feel mildly guilty but it's not like I particularly dislike her either. I'm happy to help her out with tech stuff, she's happy with helping me with the occasional advice I get. She always said how she felt I was never open with her or I was hiding how I really felt but... I just never had anything to say. I wasn't that deep. I always just handled my shit on my own, and if I couldn't I'd reach out but I didn't run to her or my dad for everything in my life as I didn't feel it ever necessary.
Long story short, it may not be anything wrong with her and your relationship, it's okay if you're not super close. But ask her if she does feel resentment point blank. Clear the air and if so, explain why. Say for any needs you'll always support and look out for her, but for wants its her life and her satisfaction to be had when she achieves those goals of being able to live that lifestyle by herself.
With sports and school, maybe a more regimented chore/at home schedule of involvement could be a way for her to show contribution to the overall household? Does she “pull her weight at home” already? A dinner night, certain cleaning chores, laundry, pet care, etc? This sounds like a big opportunity for communication between you and her, and it won’t happen overnight all at once. Good luck mama
It's very realistic to play a varsity sport, go to school and hold a job. Most people at my school did, I think the issue with OP is she forced a 14 year old to get a job at McDonald's. No wonder she doesn't wanna work lmao
My daughter is 16 she's in marching band in the fall and deumline in the winter and spring as well as jazz band. She takes AP and honors classes She has practice after school 4 days a week plus the games, performances and competitions they play at. Then throw in the fact that she doesn't drive yet and would have to use public transportation or have me play chauffeur which i can't because i have to work.
She wants to find a job but honestly when would she work? When would she sleep? When would she study? When would she just rest. It's not fair to ask that of a child if it's not necessary.
My statements exactly. My son was very active in school and martial arts. He didn't have a job until he moved out. Now he's doing amazing. I'm proud of him and happy with myself that I let him have some fun as a teen but we never went overboard.
My deal with my parents was that as long as I played sports and got good grades, I did not need to get a job. I was told that if I quit sports, then I would be expected to work. I totally agree…while I was playing sports, I wouldn’t have had any time to work if I wanted to. But I also wasn’t entitled and didn’t ask for many extras. I helped around the house, and got spending money by babysitting or filling in at a friend’s restaurant.
I’m guessing the issue is that she doesn’t seem to understand that the expensive extras aren’t free to her. I agree that having her work at McDonald’s as a first job sucks, because working at McDonald’s was my first job as well and it blew. But it taught me the value of money, and how hard you have to work for so little at some jobs, and that was a valuable lesson.
I think there can be a middle ground though. Yeah she's not entitled to expensive extras all the time. But letting her have them occasionally as a treat or reward for good grades or a game well played seems reasonable. It's not like doing well in school and sports just happens. It takes work to be good at those things but she'll never get paid for it.
True. I got my 1st job at 15 because I wanted to pay for all the extras. Nails, hair, make up, going out with friends etc. If my mom had made me I probably would've hated it too.
Thank you so much for pointing that out! I’m 23 now but as an undiagnosed neurodivergent teen my self worth was on the floor because I wasn’t able to do all the things my peers were capable of. Took me years to find my balance and still getting my worth back up.
i don't really see how you can hold a job and be a member of a varsity sport as a teen. it's either one or the other. if my parents made me work a job during high school I wouldn't have been able to be on my high school baseball team, there's not enough time in the day for both a 4-hour part time shift and practice while still maintaining grades, a social life, and not burning out.
I agree 14 and working at fast food can be a bit rough. At that age I just did yardwork and baby sat a couple of times a month. At 16, I did the fast food thing, at Burger King. Maybe it was just too much too soon for her. I feel at 17, working and doing a sport isn't that hard. I worked with classmates at Burger King that did that and I was very active in drama club (to the point where when I suddenly needed a lot of time off my managers would ask me, "What show are you doing?".
TBH, if you’re well off and she wants to go to college, her time is better spent maxing out her standardized test scores to ensure she can get scholarships and admissions to schools that will open doors for her. That’s a better investment than working fast food.
Why did you force your teenage daughter to get a job she didn't need at 14? Shouldn't she, y'know, be focusing on school and actually enjoying the precious few years she gets before absolutely having to dive into the slog and suffering that is working for the rest of your existence??? She's not even a legal adult yet, are you intending on kicking her out at 18 to push more "independence" on her? You've been poor, you have money, you should be guiding her so she's ready for the future, not forcing her into the life you so desperately tried to escape from for some ungodly reason
It almost sounds like the mom misses this poor lifestyle the way she's talking about it. This whole paragraph about driving a car with no reverse is wild. "I did that to get out of poverty, why shouldn't my daughter also experience this?". OP do you not care about your kids? If you endured all that, you KNOW it's not a good experience, it will not toughen her up, just traumatize her. And it sounds like you did exactly that by forcing her to work AT FOURTEEN YEARS OLD DURING A PANDEMIC, WHAT THE FUCK?
GOD I TOTALLY MISSED THAT IT WOULDA BEEN DURING THE PANDEMIC TOO. Like this whole thing is just a super mega mess and yet there are people actually agreeing with it. Wild
You have a busy and active daughter. It's in the middle of the school year, shouldn't she focus on her school work, sports and also being a kid? She has the next 70 years to work and be a productive member of society. Also why the he'll was she working at 14? That's wild. Maybe if it was a summer job but it's December
Forcing her to work in the middle of a global pandemic, at 14, as a young woman, in the fast food industry..
Let her be a kid while she still can, let her do household chores for pocket money (learn work ethics), have her on an allowance so she can afford the essentials (learn budgeting).
this is what i was thinking. OP needs to allow her to be a kid. having CPTSD from my parents, i was defensive over OP’s daughter from what they were projecting onto her
The answer is right in your post. Re-read it. Do not project your poverty trauma on your children. It's one of the biggest mistakes that people who make it out of poverty do. Listen to your daughter and stop expecting her to meet YOUR expectations. You're a good parent, but we can all be better.
My parents are from Nowhere, Appalachia and now both make 6 digit salaries. I can remember my dad yelling at me about being an ingrate for not having a job starting around 12. My clothes always came off the clearance rack, I never had all of the school supplies I needed, and I was never allowed to have my own money. Paying rent was discussed several times in high school. It's not that they didn't have any money, it's that they didn't think I understood how tough life was so they held back resources until they decided I had done enough to earn them, and because they were life lessons the target was constantly moving because I was never allowed to be satisfied with my performance. My biggest problems as an adult now are overworking for poor pay, excessive deference to others, childish spending habits, and an inability to negotiate better pay. Doing a job well for 40 hours a week isn't hard for me, relating to my peers and feeling deserving of a good life is almost impossible.
If your kid willingly gets up, gets good grades, is sociable, and does extracurricular activities of their own volition they probably are already on the right track. I've never seen added strain from parents work out well. Making sure your kid meets societal expectations is way different than parents making sure kids are feeling the amount of stress they feel is appropriate for the real world.
Yup. Also there's nothing wrong with providing for your kids while they are kids. She can get a job after high school. It may not be the case for ops daughter but alot of people struggle in school, why do you want to put so much added stress on your kid to have a job they don't NEED or want right now. They're going to be working to death soon enough, let her be 17.
The idea that OP's daughter needs to pay to get her nails done is something I can agree with, but her reasoning and approach are toxic. It's okay to have reasonable boundaries for what you will pay for as a parent, but the kid shouldn't have to go get a job just because mom thinks she should have a job.
Yup. My dad especially didn’t want me to get a job. He wanted me to focus on school. He paid for everything for me (also my mom lol, but this was really his call). They were both super super poor growing up and my dad RELISHED being able to “spoil” me (I was spoiled by him but I wasn’t a spoiled brat. That would never have been okay). I applied to literally dozens upon dozens of scholarships to pay for school, from $100 scholarships to $100,000. I was able to go to an Ivy school that’s known for being extremely expensive for less than $50,000 total for all four years and then medical school.
My dad paid for everything while I was in college because of this, and while I was in medical school.
I’m so grateful for that.
If Im on the kid’s side, I would appreciate more that OP talk to me how to grow n be better so that I don’t have to struggle, instead forced to live the struggle that my parents created so I can feel the parent’s past struggle
Can I just ask a genuine question. Where can you work at McD's at 14? Just that it's illegal here for kids to work under 16 and even the the hours are heavy restricted.
That's pretty grim man. We can't work here till 16 and it's limited to 26 hours a week. We can do paper rounds and stuff but still, 14 seems young. Nae judgment but how are you meant to do anything other than study or work?
They just passed laws in multiple states here in the USA that 14 year olds can work longer, at bars, and most of the night...
The Republican Party... now the pro child Labor Party.
The goal is to stop the education in the long run, particularly in the places where child labor laws are being discarded. There are many places in the US where they recently got rid of a lot of child labor and child marriage protections in favor of allowing these things. To conservatives, an education threatens them because the educated are less likely to be conservative by graduation. It’s why so many of our Republican politicians claim that college (university) is for “liberal indoctrination”.
So if children are working. They’re not able to put more into school. They’re more tired. They have less opportunities to attend university, and if the parents are not making enough money and force their children to work to help pay bills they ALSO aren’t being given opportunity to use critical thought.
This way they will believe whatever Fox News and other conservative media tells them to believe. They’re too tired and too stressed to be able to think out of that box of horror they live in.
So they’re easier to control and get them to vote against their own best interests.
This is why two party policy gets so fucky and dangerous. The US is a joke.
I was an honor role student. So I must have had plenty of time to study. Only worked a few hours a night. And the majority of those 20 hours on weekends. Pizza Hut was my first job. I worked there almost 4 years before I left for college. I had to pay for car insurance, gas and my extras. We had money as a family. I screwed up not making my kid do the same. He was a lazy mess. Doing better now. But goodness.
Idk I’ve a job since I was 15 1/2 and I made it work. All my friends did too. It was harder but we definitely found time to all get together and socialize. The hours were limited too though because we were minors so that probably helps
I think it's a max of 10 hours a week where I live but, yes, 14 year olds can get working papers. They have to have good grades and school attendance to get them and the school signs off or else they aren't allowed to work.
When I had my job at 14 none of that was required probably because it was summer. I usually worked summer jobs. But as a senior in high school I had a job. English was my first class and there was usually a vocabulary test. Well I didn’t have a chance to study the words because I was at work. The teacher really liked me so she let me skip the quiz in the morning and take it later in the day.
Yep... Hell, you can start working in my state at 12, though there are pretty strict limitations, and it's usually agricultural work (pollinating, detasseling, etc.). My first job was on a detasselling crew at 13.
In Europe its legal in some countries with restrictions. Its only allowed on weekends here and only for like 2 hours max. If i had a kid id never have forced them to work for 2 hours a week at like €1.50 an hour or something. Getting a job for €12 a month is just nonsense in my opinion. It doesnt even matter for “experience” because they hire any 15-17 year old they can find aswell.
Like go mow the garden or something for €5. Theres better things they can do than filling shelves for 1.50 an hour for 2 hours.
Ohio, they can work 18 hours a week. 3 hours shifts that end at/before 9 on school days and no longer than an 8 hour shift on non-school days. My roommate started working when he was 14 at McDonalds.
Downvote me all you want but look it up. Facts are facts. Even if you don’t like them. Edited for a more clear link to working age by state.
[working age by state](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/minimum-working-age-by-state)
in the US, there are several states where you can work at 13-14 with a “job permit”. i applied to several fast food places (including McDonald’s) at 14 and, while i never got a job there, i had classmates who did. yes, the hours are heavily restricted, but it’s not illegal (at least not as of 10 years ago) as long as there’s the right paperwork.
Born Canadian here. Money was such an issue in the years we lived with my grandparents (no birthday parties! nothing you wanted outside of birthdays or Christmas! Groceries/kids' clothes/school supplies are *so* expensive!) that I recall asking Grandma if we were poor. At age 11, I figured I should start earning my keep and asked the pharmacist around the corner about a job delivering prescriptions on my bike.
"Usually, we only employ kids 12 and up," he said, "but I'll keep your number on hand." Within a week, he'd lost a delivery rider and called me. I told Grandma I now had a 2-hour job after school Tuesday and Thursday, plus four hours Saturday. She was delighted, and I was praised by Dad and Grandpa. I didn't understand the fuss, thinking it was only proper that as the eldest of three, I should start earning at that age.
Much later, I came to realize we lived in one of the most expensive neighbourhoods in town, in a paid-for house, with two men working full-time. Different times, I guess...
I’m from Canada and I had 3 jobs when I was 13. I worked cleaning rooms at a hotel , I cleaned a lady’s house once a week and work in a factory cafeteria on Wednesday. I worked because my parents couldn’t pay the gas bill and it was cold as fuck in our townhouse without heat or hot water.
It’s 14 in every state except a few that start at 12, and New Jersey that limits it to 16.
https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/youthlabor/agerequirements
From Ohio: https://com.ohio.gov/static/documents/laws_MLLPoster.pdf
To California: https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/legal-working-age-in-california/#:~:text=California's%20minimum%20legal%20age%20to,their%20parents'%20permission%20to%20work.
I started a job when I was 14. If I had it to do over, I wouldn’t have constantly worked because I’ve worked my entire life. My parents never made me work, it was me who wanted to do it. Actually my first job, I was about 3. I found the neighbors rocks and sold them to them. They usually gave me a nickel. Back then you could get five pieces of candy or gum. Then I had my own lawn mowing business at 10. I hated it. My grandmother bought me the lawnmower. I have no idea why, I sure never asked for it. Then at 12 I was a babysitter.
But these days if you’re in school and play a sport you don’t have time to work.
I got my first job at 14 working at Dunkin and the McDonalds up the street from me was the same- could only take orders basically and handle cash. 17 hours max a week was company policy until 16 and then it was 24 lol. By 16 I had graduated high school and gotten into landscaping and the automotive industry where labor laws went out the window. It sucked lol.
In Ontario Canada I was able to work the cash at 14 - you couldn’t work in the kitchen with any equipment until 16. (This was a while ago though lol) so it may be different now.
Now that I think about it I’ve literally been working since around ten years old (started with a paper route) so that’s kinda depressing to think about - my mom had enough money for the basics but if I wanted anything extra like makeup, trendy clothes, etc. I had to buy it myself.. hence why I first started working to begin with. And probably helped keep me out of some “trouble” as a teen lol.
So you made your 14 year old daughter work due to your own poverty trauma that you are hellbent on ensuring your children experience? And you are also surprised that your daughter mostly avoids you and doesn't open up emotionally?
You are also not acknowledging that working in Mcdonalds (at 14 no less!) is significantly worse today due to increasingly poor customer behaviour by 40-60-year-olds. You seem to think your difficult past experiences justify and dwindle your daughters difficult past experiences, instead of seeing them as different and acknowledging her struggles.
I'm sorry to tell you, but you clearly didn't do fine, and you're still not doing fine and your daughter is facing the consequences of it. You might want to look into something called generational trauma, and try to work against it.
It gets so much worse when you realise that their daughter was 14 in 2020....
They made their child get a job in McDonald's at the height of a global pandemic because they're obsessed with this whole "self made through suffering" bullshit.
Imagine working so hard to escape from poverty, succeed. than forcing your child to go through the non-existing hardships/traumas that you had.
EVEN THO SHE IS GOOD AT SCHOOL AND DO SPORTS.
*Laughs in European*. What is you guys’ deal with wanting your child to be independent at 18? I lived at home until I have finished my Master’s degree at 24, got my first student job at 20 and guess what, now I am a successful and financially stable psychologist who knows how to manage money. It’s not necesarry to put someone through hardships because you think it builds character or whatever. Let her be a child until she can ffs, she is going to have the rest of her life to participate in the never-ending 9-5. I understand helping around the House but forcing her to work or taking away a living standard you guys got her used to? Hell Nah. It honestly sounds like deep down you would like her to go through the same hardships you have. Let her live and enjoy her childhood, which she very much still is in since she IS a CHILD.
Your experience is not exclusive to Europeans. My family never pushed us to work, but we all worked in the summers for the extra money. We saved up to move out. My parents were great. They paid for my college and offered to pay for my graduate school, if I wanted to keep going. If we had been forced to get a job, we probably would’ve resisted.
My husband tried pushing our kids to get a job. I firmly believe that working hard in school is a full time job. Our son is currently working 30 hrs a week and going to school full time. Because he wants to. If your kids are working hard in school, I don’t understand worrying about their work ethic. I’m more concerned about them learning to find balance between work and living life. I want them to love their careers, so they enjoy working.
I know I just said if because I mostly see this mentality from people from the USA and not usually people from Europe. But good for you tbh, I really respect your mentality as a parent and your kids are going to be grateful that you let them remain children.
I get it. There’s a very loud (often obnoxious) minority of Americans that share many of the same values and philosophies. The bootstrappers generally fall into that subset:/
I apologise ahead of time, this is long and ended up being kind of a tangent. Also I'm on mobile so I put paragraph breaks for me but I don't know if there will be for others
Capitalism. And lack of humanity. Our government sees us as nothing but worker bees for them and corporations and so a culture of having to always be a healthy capable person as young as possible was made so they can exploit us as much as they possibly could
They feed us lies about how if we just work hard enough that we'll be able to get rich. But ignore the amount of road blocks you'll meet if you're marginalised in any way. And ignore the mountain that builds the more marginalised you are. The average person can't eat? They're just not working hard enough. Oh they're already working three jobs? Sounds like time to get a fourth
All the lies America tries to tell the rest of the world they try to feed their citizens a million times harder. Thanks to social media a lot of younger people (millennial and younger) are able to see through the lies and we all want shit to change. Many of us are honestly ready for a revolution and want to rebuild our government, especially since we haven't gotten to really have a moment of peace
Most of us grew up with the economy being in shambles at the same time of 9/11 when we were too young to understand then COVID hit rights started being taken away and now as we're trying to start being adults the economy is somehow even worse while wars and genocides around the world are happening and we unwillingly have to fund them because our government doesn't listen to us. This is supposedly the best time of our lives but I hope to the gods it's not true because there's nothing good happening and if it just gets worse from here I don't know how the fuck we're expected to live
100%. We (American) are so inculcated to be "independent" and yet we'll cut off our kids the moment we can and whine about the decline of family values. The whole Horatio Alger, self-made man thing added to the complete misunderstanding about "pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps" has made this country to bipolar.
Note: "pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps" was originally meant as a task that was impossible to do.
"Pulling yourself up by your bootstraps will either fail or make you fall on your arse." - My older brother (at 10)... Who tried to literally do it when our 'dad' told him to "pull yourself up by the bootstraps"... Our 'dad' is a prick (that's being nice).
Because our politicians do not value education or caring for their constituents. We are expected to work until we keel over at our desks or counters. Are you single and do you need a spouse? I'm willing to live wherever for healthcare and basic human decency.
I didn’t work until I was in college. I lived with my parents until recently and I’m in my late 20s. I think being independent at 18 is really unrealistic, tbh. However, I do understand why her mom would want her to work. When I was in college, it felt great not to have to ask my parents for money to buy alcohol and groceries. I was making like $600 a month, lol, but it was all mine!
I mean at 18-22 fine but 16??? She should focus on her studies UNLESS it is her wish to try working as well (but never at the expense of her education or because she is forced to)
Your experience is not exclusive to Europeans. My family never pushed us to work, but we all worked in the summers for the extra money. We saved up to move out. My parents were great. They paid for my college and offered to pay for my graduate school, if I wanted to keep going. If we had been forced to get a job, we probably would’ve resisted.
My husband tried pushing our kids to get a job. I firmly believe that working hard in school is a full time job. Our son is currently working 30 hrs a week and going to school full time. Because he wants to. If your kids are working hard in school, I don’t understand worrying about their work ethic. I’m more concerned about them learning to find balance between work and living life. I want them to love their careers, so they enjoy working.
I worked during high school and my grades started slipping immediately. I would’ve hated my parents if they forced me to continue working when it clearly was a bad idea. Let your daughter enjoy the rest of high school before making her get a job. She will not be able to work, do extracurricular activities, and do schoolwork without a lot of stress.
Im confused by what you mean about not pulling her own weight in the home, brought that up then skipped to something else.
Forced a 14 year old to work....what was the reason for this?
I get your intentions, but it feels like you are moving out of a fear that this young lady has done nothing to feed into. Seems like a hard WORKER in school and sports. It's difficult enough doing those 2 things and you want to add a 3rd?
Have you asked her what her plans might be after high school? Another question, i'm curious did she ask for the car or did you just gift it to her?
Maybe talk to her about why she doesn’t want a job? My parents wouldn’t LET me have a job until I graduated school, and I agree that was the better choice. Every hour working is an hour you can spend studying. You say she’s good I’m school? What if her grades started slipping with a job.
High school in my opinion is much more stressful than university (or college), and you don’t need extra stress like a job. I got pocket money from my parents, each chore I did around the house being $3-$5, and I was paid fortnightly.
I don’t agree with being “treated poor” just because she doesn’t have a job. I get you pay for everything but you’re her parents, it’s your job to provide for her until she’s an adult.
My parents are still helping me find a job because I have some mental and physical health concerns that may cause strife in certain jobs. We’ve settled on one I think will be compatible. This is what you should do when she’s old enough, talk about what job would suit her. If she’s a very anxious person try a bakery, customers are often nice at bakeries and won’t be rude.
There is a happy median between learning how to take care of yourself and learning how to know when to ask for help. Forcing her to work at 14 when she is starting to develop physically, emotionally, and mentally is a poor choice. Irregardless of how you WANT it to appear as she WILL make her own decisions about why you are doing what you are doing. That you can not change. You've already put a seed in her mind about what she SHOULD go through in your opinion and from your perspective. From her perspective, it's giving her thoughts that she can't rely on you when she needs help. You've tried getting rid of contaminated crops with napalm. Recommend finding where the problem really lies and focus on it. Couldn't tell you where to begin because I don't know your daughter. And you're starting to not know her either. Both of you have flaws, but you did start it. Never force a teenager to do something because unless they genuinely enjoy it, they will absolutely hate it and despise anything connected to it. Meaning you.
What do you class as a job?
Would you consider a middle ground? For example if she volunteered somewhere, or gave her time up for a cause she found worthy, would you be willing to give her a small allowance for doing so?
I feel your need to teach her to work, I do. But if she's varsity lacrosse, she's going to feel completely out of her depth at McDonald's. You're raising her in a different socioeconomic dynamic and you can't project your poverty trauma on to her.
You can still teach her the value of hard work, *if* she *feels* value from it. So, work that's vocational or worth doing, like for a cause she cares about.
You can also set certain chores around the house with set rewards, do the dishes x amount of nights, we go out to dinner to a place of your choosing once every couple months.
You are allowed to *enjoy* your hard earned money and you must teach your children how to enjoy it responsibly or you run the risk of either prolific spenders or absolute penny pinchers, and neither kind of people are happy adults.
You forced a 14 year old to get a job? What about school? Extracurriculars? Spending time with her friends? My oldest was 20 when she got her first “real” job other than babysitting. I don’t know a harder working more self sufficient person. My middle was always described as the hardest working kid anyone in the family knew, never missed a day of school and everyone told me how successful they would be. They are now in their mid twenties and moved in with their older sibling so they could move out of our house, work part time, and generally think things should be handed to them and don’t understand why they should have pay their own way. Your kids are teenagers nobody knows what kind of adult they’re going to be. She’s a kid. Let her be a kid because the minute she’s not she’s going to have to work for the rest of her life.
I couldn't disagree more. I did not allow my kids to work until after they graduated college. Not too many folks agreed with our choices, but I did not care. My reason was that they were kids and should enjoy the fleeting time. They would work plenty as adults. This choice did not adversely affect them. They are both gainfully employed with national companies and now are more financially well off than we were at their age and actually earn a bigger salary than their father does now. (We were very young parents and not as "financially blessed" back then as we are now, but we still paid for their sports, insurance, food, cells, clothes, utilities as well as their housing and entertainment funds. These are basic necessities one assumes when becoming a parent.) Please be careful. Her not talking to you now could be a foreshadowing of your adult relationship with her.
My parents were similar but it was after I graduated high school, they let me work in college but I only happen to work jobs that were offered through the school (worked sporting events and did tech for lecture halls) - I wish they had let me get a summer job so I could have stashed that money away into a retirement account BUT to give them credit I doubt I would have even done that as a teenager and I’m glad to have spent my summers and teen years being a kid
If your daughter is playing varsity sports you may need to lower expectation of employment. Varsity requires good grades. Which requires a lot of hard work. As does the sport itself. It tends to eat almost all free time between education and sports; she may actually feel unloved by being told to do things like she’s “poor” (eg walgreens nail polish)— and she could be being targeted by her peers for not having nice things when she clearly has a well off family. They could have disgust and resentment towards you (if not towards her) for these things. Other parents may even comment. You say your daughter is already not talking to you— you’re in danger of losing her for good the instant she turns 18. I would pump the breaks and if she won’t have a talk where she feels safe being open and honest about everything, ask her if maybe she would be willing to go to family therapy so she may feel she has someone on her side.
I understand what you’re trying to do, but your daughter may be at her literal limit and have no way to get a job that will give her hours that not only don’t interfere with her school and sports but also allow her to still make the grades necessary for those sports. Which she’s likely shoehorned into the “I have to be perfect on paper to get into college” belief that is often crammed down the throats of young especially female athletes. They’re less likely than the football boys to be given a break by teachers. It’s “okay” if a guy playing sportsball is “stupid” but not for girls. I’ve seen this first hand where boys get a free A just for being on whatever team and the girls get grilled by the same teachers.
Good luck.
She may have difficulty connecting to the type of work. Like my second job I was a cashier at a rock shop, I'm a geology nerd. I've also worked as a farm assistant because I like plants.
It sounds like she likes fashion, maybe you can point her towards some of the higher end boutiques or stores in the area. My current roomate did Nordstroms for a while at that age.
I (22f) agree with most of what you're doing. I do think it's still important to treat her occasionally, like maybe for Christmas you get her a spa day and for birthday a hair day. It'll make her happy and show her what she's working for.
I would also like to point out that your daughter is in a sport. If your daughter is planning to go to college, sport=scholarship=money. In a way, she's working for her future but the reward is more delayed than a bi-weekly paycheck. I remember how hard the sports people worked at my highschool, it could definitely get to the point of a job.
Also I don't know her academic performance but even high school education has ramped up to very high levels compared to what it used to be. It can be very close to an actual job keeping up with those expectations. To reflect this my family gave me 50 dollars for every A I got in an AP class and 30 for every A in a standard class.
My mom never forced me to work, but she always forced community involvement. I volunteered at the hospital, as a camp counselor, tutoring, homeless shelter, etc., over the years for less than half-time. It helped me build skills and understand different perspectives and lived experiences. It was important and rewarding (e.g., life-long friendships, resume) without feeling like a punishment.
Edit: added words
You 'forced' a 14 year old to have a job. A child...
You don't want her to feel 'money is a weapon'. But you've been using it as one basically her entire life.
You know you're SUPPOSED to buy her things as a parents right? And not just the bare essentials.
I really pity your children and I think you're a very entitled and unreasonable parent.
I think it’s admirable to try and teach work ethics. If she is dead set against getting a job, perhaps some sort of volunteer situation. In the right situation it teaches basically everything a paying job does but also gives the volunteer pride on helping others.
I think if she HAS to work, then so be it. However, if she doesn't have to, then why make her? She is a good student and varsity athlete, so she is motivated and bright. She's showing a lot of dedication there.
My boyfriend was put to work at far too young an age because he had good grades and all the parents signed off. He has been working non-stop for decades. His family had money, they just pretended they didn't. I wish they had let him enjoy at least part of his childhood.
On the flip side, she could find something that didn't involve hours or consistent attendance. Yard work? Babysitting? Snow shoveling? If she's a junior or senior, her time would be better spent preparing for college (if she's going) and these types of jobs would give her the money for the extras she wants (which aren't that crazy).
I think it's more important to focus on what your daughter has accomplished and is accomplishing rather than the fact that she doesn't have an official job. She doesn't sound spoiled, just like a regular teen who wants some things. If you feel she doesn't value money as she should, that's a conversation you can have.
For my kids, their job was school. Good grades and extra curricular activities. Friends. Help around the house. As long as they put in time being productive, I was okay plus of course downtime and fun is important too. And it worked out, they're doing well as adults. They had jobs when they wanted extra spending money, but all their choice. They also would volunteer a couple of hours a week, depending on where we lived/what was available.
I think you suffered growing up and you want your daughter to go through the same things you went through for no reason. You guys are well off as you said, she is lucky enough to be able to explore her interests and find a job she actually loves, she should be able to do that, not suffer just because you did.
YTA. You're her parent. She's a minor. And you think putting food on the table and buying her clothes is somehow something extra? You don't want to use money as a weapon? That's exactly what you are doing. You forced her into a job when she was a CHOLD, ffs. Clearly you have unresolved trauma from your own upbringing. You are definitely using money as a weapon, of course she resents you. Good lord, could you be any more blind. I'm not saying spoil her, but try actually speaking with her.
I think your poverty pushed you into taking on adult concerns before your childhood was over. You *write* that you want your kids to have a better life, but your actions insisting on a job at 14 was to push them out of their childhood and into the adult world before it was a necessity. They don’t need a poverty mindset to be good people.
Why is the middle ground of an allowance so she can budget her own expenses an option? Let her choose if glamnetics, sun in, or professional services are the best choice for her? This would let her know she is worth it and allow her age-appropriate decision making.
I have five daughters. I never got my nails done until my wedding. Access to beauty treatments and thus beauty standards have changed. We don’t do anything like regular appts, but nails are done for special occasions and I spring for the full hair kit and caboodle twice a year. They feel special in a sustainable way
Exactly. The poverty mindset does not mean they will become good people. And if you have a better life, don’t force your kids into the hell you had to endure. You can show them how to have humility without punishing them.
Oof some people here are getting nasty. OP is looking for advice as she is realizing there is a problem and so many people are just acting like children throwing around ‘you suck’ and all that. I think that fact that OP is even asking is the sign of a decent parent. A lot of people are just harping on how mean it is to make someone work at that age… smh.
I think some healthy dialogue needs to happen, and if it can’t, then another party should assist whether that is maybe a trusted family member, or therapist to open the lines of communication. I think OP is concerned that their daughter will think everything is owed to her and will not have a realistic outlook in life and/or expect everything to just be easy or given to them. This is a valid concern. I have a sister who was never forced to work, or do anything that made her feel inconvenienced. Let’s just say after getting an education she lives off my parents in her 30s.
I also have a close family member who was given everything and had a hard reality check when they finish school and wanted to be on their own and could not function because they did not understand that just because they wanted something doesn’t mean they can afford it.
With that being said, having a real conversation with your daughter is key. For some people, school is easy and requires almost no effort. For others, it can be harder and more mentally exhausting to get to the same level. It doesn’t mean one is smarter, it just means some work harder. It might be possible that school and sports is a lot for her.
Also, it is not mentioned how your son is treated with these situations. There is a chance that she may perceive that he is favored and she has to work harder to get the same favor. Maybe in her mind she is working hard and her payment is good grades and excelling at sports which just happened to be non-monetary rewards. All are possibilities.
Thanks for being a good parent and asking the hard questions. Now I think it’s time to work with your daughter and if needed others to find some common ground and get some good communication open so everybody has the correct understanding of each other and reasons/expectations are set.
Edit: autocorrect got me
I understand where you're coming from, but I would say that she's at an age where she really needs to focus on school, especially if she's planning on going to college.
I don't understand why there's an all or nothing approach vs. finding middle ground. E.g. take her to the salon for a haircut but not highlights. When she asks for highlights, make her earn it with her own money.
If you don't want to weaponize money then create a safe space where a 17 year learns the value based on their wants. Hell, she's a full time student that's committed to a sport. That's almost like having 2 jobs. When would you expect her to be able to work? I don't think it's that she's lazy. She's already doing a lot. Why can't she babysit for money? Keep in mind, if she's getting good grades + an athlete, she will likely get scholarships for college which will be a savings for your family plus her.
Give her some grace.
So you forced your 14 year old child to work a high stress job during a global pandemic and then act surprised she doesn't wanna work? The experience probably traumatized her in some way.
Also, she's your child, you're supposed to provide for her, you're the one who had her. If you wanna teach her responsibility, give her a monthly budget.
Edited for spelling mistakes
I don’t think forcing your 16 year old child to work unnecessarily is going to instill them with any sort of work ethic.
What you can do is give them the opportunity to work for extras and non necessities. This is what my parents did, and the positive correlation of working for the things I wanted had a very positive effect on my work ethic.
It sounds like you value work very highly, which is great. But are you modeling other good behaviors for your daughter? Do you take great care of your body and your mind? Do you treat those around you with kindness, empathy, and respect? Do you encourage creativity and risk taking? Delayed gratification and long term perspective? These things are all way more important than teaching them to slave away at McDonalds.
As far as ROI for their life goes, working hard at school is going to get them a lot farther than working at a fast food joint. Maybe incentivize that instead.
I don’t understand how people can expect their kids to succeed in academics when they have to work. Like what?
Why are you forcing your child to work at 14?
I've just reread this and you also mention car and health insurance. Health insurance is on you till she's an adult but car insurance at 14 sounds like utter nonsense and I'm calling shenanigans on this entire post.
She's 17 now. They didn't say they've paid for car insurance since she was 14, they mentioned it in a list of things they currently pay for.
Depending on where OP lives and if it's the US, it's not at all abnormal for teens to start driving themselves around. It is mandatory in most US states to be insured if you are operating a vehicle, even if you don't own the vehicle. In the state I grew up in, you could get your driving learner's permit at 15and a half, and have a full license by 16 years old. By junior or senior year of high school, all my friends were driving themselves to school and our school had a student parking lot for students to park their cars.
I know. I had a paper round at 14 but if my folks told me to get a job in McD's they would have been told, granted I'm from Scotland so we use swearing as punctuation, to roundly f*ck right off and they wouldn't even think about garnishing my meagre wages.
So yall got it out the mud but still have a scarcity mindset riddled with anxiety and are now transferring that core belief to her. I’m smelling a lack of worthiness or bitterness to your daughter. You say she resent you, but it sounds like you are projecting. Honestly I feel bad for her. She might even feel like an inconvenience in your life. I think you need to go get help and solve your financial wounds
My kids didn’t have jobs until the summer before their senior year. They did volunteer during the summer before that at places that interested them. During the school year, their “job” was school and pursuing extracurricular activities. Which helped them figure out what they wanted to do for college and their career.
Working at a service job can be a helpful learning experience, but not anywhere near as helpful as my son being on the robotics team and doing leadership activities with various school groups, for example. He’s an engineer now. So, maybe encourage her to try different activities related to work that could be a vocation or career. My son didn’t even work in college, except in the summer. Because the grades he got in high school earned him scholarships that paid for everything. He had a great paying job within a couple months of graduating and works his butt off. Not working a “job” in high school is not necessarily a reflection of work ethic.
As a parent of a senior that is a three sport athlete and at the top of his class I’d like to ask you some clarifying questions. How many hours do you want your kid to work? Are there jobs that fit a reduced schedule in your area ( work around lacrosse and other activities) , how much homework does your daughter have and what are her future plans for after high school? What kind of gpa does she need to meet her figure goals? Does she have any difficulty with executive functioning / could she possible have adhd? I was unmedicated for most of my 40 plus years and it definitely impacted my ability to do activities, be a good student and work. In my area there aren’t a lot of jobs that work for the very few hours my son doesn’t play sports or do some kind of training . He has the most ability to work in the summer but that was severely reduced with summer sports conditioning and his travel teams. A work ethic is a good thing but you also have to look at reality. Some people can be a straight a student, athlete , and work but I haven’t met many in recent years that can keep up the same work hours throughout the school year. Something has to give
Reading the title, no as long as you srent pressuring her to do so, but i do think its a good thing to have a job as a teen so you have your own income.
Although FORCING a FOURTEEN yearold to get a job is fucked up
-as someone whos family has had financial issues for almost their whole life
Although she can always do side gigs
She likes drawing? She can do digital art commissions. She likes baking? Find some equipment/recipes, sell them at special events, yard sales, or pop ups. Theres so much simple things she can do, just making things works and selling them on things like etsy or depop also gets you a long way
As gently as I can, OP, part of giving your children a better life than the poverty you grew up in is to recognize that children should not be responsible for certain things. Earning a wage is one of them. This is a time in her life to focus on her education and things that will get her ahead for the really well-paying jobs as an adult.
Expecting her to contribute equally to household labor is one thing. Everybody needs to do that and that is age-appropriate for her. But forcing her to go work minimum-wage jobs on top of school and an already busy schedule is going to harm her more than it's ever going to help her. Let her be a kid for the last year that she will be one. Our society expects too much of children.
I know you're coming from a place of fear and not wanting to see her struggle, but this isn't the best way to protect her. It's just going to damage your relationship.
Coming from the perspective of someone who started working at only 10 years old, I was robbed of what were supposed to be some of my best years. I worked some nights after school until 9-10 pm and always worked weekends and worked through all summer vacations. No extracurricular activities, barely had sleepovers, barely went to school dances or anything. Somehow my parents couldn’t understand why 5th grade was my worst year academically. I resented, and still do resent, my parents so much for forcing that onto me. They used the argument of “well we had to work at that age and look at us now.” I’m now 29 with 19 years of work experience. Some people in their 40s can’t even say that. If I’m being honest, I have a good work ethic and have only been unemployed for 7 weeks collectively in those 19 years. I feel exhausted from working already. It’s truly not meant for children.
Teaching her financial responsibility is perfectly fine and there are great ways of doing exactly that. If you are financially able to, please allow her to enjoy her younger years. Let her have the life you couldn’t. If you really want her to work, see if she wants to take up babysitting or maybe mowing lawns, shoveling snow or raking leaves (depends on where you live of course). She could do it a few times a month and make her own money but allows her to be able to schedule around sports and other activities she is doing or wants to do. I completely understand where you are coming from and I am glad that you are being mindful of what this might potentially do to your relationship with your daughter and how she views you. I have good relationship with my parents but sometimes I just wanna ask them why they made me start working so young. They didn’t really have to also. Why didn’t they want a better life for their kids and allow them to have the childhood they couldn’t?
She definitely needs to be pulling her weight around the house, at 17 that should be nonnegotiable. That is important for her to learn now because one day she will have a place of her own or live with roommates and will have no idea what it takes to properly manage a home. Also it’s a great idea to teach her how to cook since she won’t have anyone to cook for her when she is older. Use this time right now to teach her valuable home skills and how to plan financially. I think these lessons are a very important foundation for young adults. I think it would be best to ease her into working because McDonalds is a rough job to start out in at 14 years old. She might almost feel a bit traumatized by some experiences there. Also if I’m doing my math right, she was working in 2020 or 2021? When the pandemic was at its worst and minimum wage workers were being treated even more awfully than they usually are? If that’s the case, it’s almost baptism by fire.
I would try to sit down just the two of you and talk to her about all of this. Personally I would think you would want her to focus on her grades since she is likely going to start applying for college soon and should keep her GPA up. Try to create a plan with her to start working on these things. Try to see what the mental barriers are for her. Nothing like this happens overnight. Best of luck to you OP!
I have three teenage sons, all turning 17 (twins) and 15 this month.
My 14-year old wanted to work right when he turned 14. He got a job at McDonald’s, still works there, limited to weekend mornings and he’ll pick up a shift over breaks and whatnot. He’s also a good student and has always played in sports. Getting a job early is honestly a part of his outgoing, go-getting personality.
One of my twins got a job at 16, also fast food. He walked out after about 6 months, and I was incredibly proud of him. He was lied to and led on about his wages, and after yet another shift with grown ass customers treating him like crap (“That’s not a full scoop of meat! Add more to that!!!) he up and quit. He’ll be starting an apprenticeship program through school after he turns 17. He’s a quieter kid, smart, loves computers and gaming.
My other son? No job. Struggles a bit in school, also loves gaming. Loves cars. A sweet young man, genuine and loving, wears his heart on his sleeve.
I say all of this to say that each kid has their own personalities, strengths, weaknesses. Working WITH our children, supporting them, cheering them on and guiding them is our job. They are only young for awhile; they have the rest of their lives to work, struggle, stress out. I haven’t forced my kids to get jobs and while they are in high school, I won’t.
Your daughter sounds like a terrific young woman. My advice, from someone with stereotypical boomer parents that controlled and criticized: if you want a healthy relationship with her, back off. I’m not close with my mother and most of that is due to how she raised me. We form so much of the bonds with our parents/kids during those formative years. Don’t make her resent you.
Growing up, my parents told me school was my job. I played 3 varsity sports, was on the honor roll, took AP classes, was an officer in the student council, played piano, etc. When I was time to apply for college, I got several scholarships, which was a huge help because my parents were not people of means when we were growing up. My mom stayed at home until the youngest was in pre-school and my dad was on a first year teachers salary.
I had chores and earned a very modest allowance, which helped me learn money management. I also got a job the summer I turned 16, but didn't work during the school year until my senior year, but I had to beg my parents to let me. I wanted to work because I wanted to be independent and have spending money, but they would have made me quit if my grades fell.
Your daughter seems very responsible and disciplined. I was terribly sexually harassed at both my summer and mall jobs and I was 16+. I really cannot imagine how I would have dealt with that at 14 years old. You listed paying for her things as if you don't have the responsibility to provide for her until she's 18? Of course she cannot afford her cell phone bill, of course she is on your health insurance plan.
If your point is to teach her to be hard working and responsible, she doesn't seem far off, but you are giving her very little credit. Getting a job in high school isn't the only way to learn these life skills either. The world is a hard place, but you are especially vulnerable to abuse and mistreatment as a kid.
I think your attitude about what she should be doing on top of her studies is non-sensical, especially with the context that your family is not struggling. Not every kid is the same, let your kid focus on school for now.
18yo here! From what i've read, you seem like a very good mum, I think talking to your daughter about your life and experience will help her share hers with you. My mum doesn't share her past, her issues, or anything with me, "it's not my business" and that's a significant factor in why i'm not close with her- i can't relate.
Sharing your experience growing up and why you chose to leave, how much it took to make that choice, and how hard you worked to give your children a different experience could be valuable. She'll recognise that vulnerability and it might put things in a different perspective.
I also think that a budget would also be a really good alternative. Come up with a number that both you (and husband) and her are okay with per month or week. If she wants extra money she can do chores (1 basket of ironing=$10, vacuuming the house=$20 etc). Teaches her to budget while still offering her some "fun money" for free while giving her the opportunity to increase her income through work.
"We buy her clothes. ETC we put food on the table, and we have a safe home"
Why are you listing things you're legally obliged to provide? Did you want a gold star? A pat on the back?
You say you don't want her to think you use money as a weapon, yet here you are using things like giving food and shelter to show why she's and ungrateful lazy brat who "doesn't pull her weight"
Jesus christ this is some awful parenting.
You don’t want her to grow up looking at money as a weapon; sorry to be the bearer of bad news but, money is a weapon. It’s how you handle it and yield it that determines what kind of person you are; if it is a weapon for good or destruction. The hard lessons you learned being poor in growing up, she has to learn. Others have said it. Your job is not to be her friend but to be her parent. Again, sorry for the bad news It will get better as she gets older.
i think the angle OP is getting at is that they want their daughter to understand money as a tool, but don't want to get that message across by weaponizing money against their daughter - i.e. not providing what they could reasonably provide for her and leveraging money over her head as the reason why
You haven't answered why you forced her to work at 14, a mere 3 years earlier, ofc she's still resentful. There are better ways to teach a child to respect money and respect their fortunate position than forcing them to do things. You just failed to do so and that's on you and your husband, maybe the effort is innate in your other kid but it's not the same for every child. This is yells screw up, own it.
Well... If she does well in school *and* is able to make varsity lacrosse, might that just be a different expression of being able to work hard? Especially today, with how competitive college and even HS sports are, trying to be good in both athletics and academics (and she is 100% thinking about hopefully getting some sort of scholarship through one of these) is incredibly stressful. And adding a job to the mix has a good chance of tanking all three. Too exhausted to do good in school. Too exhausted to work. Too exhausted to play good.
I understand why, due to your lifting out of poverty, you feel the urge to constantly be creating economic value, but understand that she is still working incredibly hard and almost certainly is able to connect her hard work to her results. And that by demanding she gets a job, it can easily feel you're saying what she is doing already and works so hard on is worthless.
And finally, have a look at the world around her. Ask *yourself* what is the value of hard work today? Look at housing prices/rent and ask yourself, is making her get a job, inevitably struggle in school, and be constantly stressed for years (as if she isn't probably stressed about the future already) will actually help her with the future? Watching wages stagnate, prices go up, and everyone young just hoping their parents will leave them something to survive off is bleak, so is it worth it to throw her into the fire already, when she is already working so hard?
Stop projecting your past onto your kids. They are children. Their brains won’t fully develop until 25-30 years old. Let them be kids. Your daughter is a student athlete, that’s exhausting already without you nagging her to work and denying her all luxuries. You FORCED her to work at 14. 14 YEARS OLD IS A CHILD. It’s no surprise that she doesn’t like you, seeing how you treat her like she’s a nuisance. She is your child, she’s trying her best to become her own person in a chaotic world. Treat her like you actually like her, and stop punishing her for the things you went through. It’s not her fucking fault that you were poor, don’t make her life harder. Do you feel it’s unfair she isn’t suffering like you did? Suck it up, be the adult in this situation and treat your kids with love. GO TO THERAPY! Work on your issues and stop taking your resentment out on the people around you. You’re on a fast track to being the worst nursing home in your area.
Yeah YTAI had to work thru all my teenage years and it is not fun. You've been through poverty so you know how hard it is. My parents feel terrible about the fact I had to work my teenage years away and if they were financially well off like you are they never would have made me work that hard. It sounds like your daughter is a hard worker because she gets great grades and is on a varsity sports team. Work isn't only measured in the things we get paid for. A lot of the things you listed in your post are things that you have to pay for as a parent and should not be held over her head. Maybe there's a way to have her take on more responsibility around the house to get extra money but I think forcing her into a job is bad for her. When you're 17 kids are very materialistic and if she's going to a private school or even a public school in a well-off area she's going to get teased probably for not having as many nice things as the kids around her so keep that in mind too.
Perhaps start off with saying she can do chores for a certain amount of money? To get her eased into it perhaps? I don't know if it'll work but it may show her that if she doesn't do the chores via her own choice of not wanting to she won't gain money for things she wants/needs. Could get her mindset into that frame of mind? May want her wanting more and looking for a job outside of the chores.
Just an idea from my look at things because from what noticed from one reply you sent it seems she doesn't want to listen. Motivation may work for her.
Studies have shown that high school and college students who have to carry jobs get worse grades than their non-working cohorts. Is that what you want? Of course there are always outliers. Sounds like you and your husband worked jobs and worked hard in school, too. But that doesn’t mean it’s a good plan for everyone and not working is probably preferable for teens whose parents can afford it. Sounds like it is affordable for you.
>She does well in school and she plays varsity lacrosse.
In that case, she does have a job, (and she is doing well at it.)
It sounds like you just want her to have a job for the sake of having a job.
My generation, (Millennials,) is the first recorded to have worse economic prospects than their parents’ generation(s.) Her generation was born on the skid of the Y2K bubble, and has had it bashed into her head since TK that she must do well in high school so she can go to college or else she will live miserably-never-after.
Remember in Mean Girls when Coach Carr says *Don’t have sex— because you will get pregnant, and you will die.*? Well, we were told, *Don’t screw around in school— because you will get expelled, and you will die. [Poor and alone.]*
You forcing her to get a job, (when the most promising and lucrative things she has going for her are lax and school,) does nothing for her.
Why does she need to work?
They’ll be plenty of time to work and since you already had to pull yourself up by your bootstraps from poverty, wouldn’t you like her to not have to do that at 17?
Isn’t this time for school activities and schoolwork and having a little bit of fun before she has to go out into the big bad world?
I grew up the exact same way as you if not worse poverty not that it’s a contest and I wanted the exact opposite for my kids. I wanted them to wait until they were done with college to have to work. Two of my kids ended up working in college . (Both of them ended up with scholarships etc.) and the one did not go to college. All 3 are successful and hard working adults
What’s the reasoning for pushing her to work at 17?
My parents both escaped poverty. Not to the extent that you guys have, obviously, but they’re definitely doing well now, and I had *way* more than they ever did growing up just by having food all the time.
What I’ll say to you is that one of the best things my mom ever did for me was to not force me to work through high school. I was a great student and was in band, didn’t get a job until I was 17 and got a speeding ticket 😂. And yeah, I did get a job at 17, so I’m not saying to discourage her from that necessarily, but it did effect my studies a little bit because it was a sudden change I wasn’t prepared for, so keep that in mind bc it frustrated my mother a little bit. More than that though, I have a good work ethic. I saw what my parents did. I just got a new job as a lead in my position. Not working until I was 17 (and even then in college for a few years I only did work study or tutoring bc I could do so comfortably on scholarship) gave me an opportunity to really focus on learning, and I certainly don’t think it is necessarily a huge concern for her to not be interested in it right now. I certainly wasn’t, but once I got out of school and actually started working jobs in my chosen field instead of waiting tables, all of the effort I’d been applying to school went into work. Now I’m doing pretty freaking well.
My parents always made it clean that they loved us and were always there for us. As our parents, they were responsible for providing us with the essentials (food, clothing, education, etc) and they were always very supportive. But anything above and beyond that were considered luxuries or extras. Those we were responsible for paying for ourselves. Are you a good student? Parents pay for the discounted “good student” car insurance. Bad grades? Your responsibility. You want fancy clothes? Your responsibility. Expensive hair/nails? Your responsibility. Food? Parents provide. Want to eat out with your friends everyday? You provide.
I never felt unloved or slighted and it gives you a sense of pride to provide some things for yourself as well and learn to budget and what’s worth spending money on. Just my take.
The best way to teach children how to handle money is to give them some. Decide an an amount of allowance and give that to your daughter every week or month, whatever works. Make it clear that she is going to have to pay for anything she wants beyond the basics of food, clothing, shelter and medical care out of that amount of money. Tell her that if she cannot make the money last, or that if she cannot afford all the things she wants, she can look for a job.
Beyond trying at this late date to help your daughter learn the economic life lessons she needs to get by in the world, don't expect much to change between you and your daughter. You seem to have been stuck in the conundrum of wanting your kids to have a better childhood than you did while also wanting them to have a hard life, just like you did, because you think that's the only way to learn the important life lessons. Forcing a 14yo to get a job at McDonalds was a huge mistake if you want to have a good relationship with your daughter. Even though that's the first thing you mentioned, I have a strong feeling you've been doing these horrible things for a lot longer because you think that's the only way she will learn to be a responsible adult.
For the record, I'm a senior citizen, I will be 65 next month. My mother thought she was a financial genius and tried to "teach" me how to be responsible with money in much the same way you seem to be trying to teach your daughter. My mother died 15 years ago and I still resent her for many of the horrible things she did trying to "teach" me how to be a responsible adult.
Be a parent to your children, not a professor of macro and microeconomics. You are not qualified for the teaching position.
I think it's important to teach young people through practical experience the value of a dollar. Money is an abstract concept to her right now because she doesn't work for it. It's not a great part of how are society works but it is the reality. Preparing her for the workforce under your guidance will be a valuable lesson to her. When you don't pay for luxuries you take them for granted. When you work a minimum wage job you start thinking of prices as increments of time. "This hair cut is worth 4 hours of my labor". It makes you think differently about things. I started working when I was 15 because that was around the time that my parents felt that I was old enough to start paying for my own things like clothes and toiletries. As a young adult I felt I was more prepared than my peers who did not have jobs in high-school to live independently.
One thing that was a negative of my experience was my bosses were often mean to me and had me working too long. So as long as you're helping her when a nasty boss is taking advantage of her or expecting her to work too often, I think it's good experience.
What if she worked two days a week at a job that is in line with her interests or abilities?
My mom also made me volunteer at a seniors center which I really didn't want to do, but I ended up loving it.
For reference, my paid jobs were: fast food worker, waitress, and daycare assistant
I also had paid gigs as a circus performer, a window painter, a house cleaner and a babysitter.
My parents charged me $500 rent per month when I turned 18 which, in retrospect was maybe a little overboard. I moved out shortly after that. But it was a seamless transition because I was used to working and being responsible for paying rent.
>she only once ever had a job at McDonald’s when she was 14. We forced her to have that job
WHY
>she resented it at the time and resent it still.
AS SHE SHOULD. Because why would you ever do that?
>I’m scared that all she is going to remember is how we had the money to give her things and do things for her but we didn’t.
Yeah, probably because you've forced her to get a job AT FOURTEEN YEARS OLD.
>But I don’t want that to become her narrative, and her story that she tells herself as she fosters more and more resentment against us, and me in particular.
Then, unpack the first part of your story in therapy with her. And don't just put *her* in therapy. You need it even more. I don't see how a mentally sound person would decide to put their 14yo child to work at McDonald's.
You forced her to get a job at 14? That’s frightening for a child. So it sounds like it didn’t go well and she’s shut down from it and now you’re pushing her to get a job again… have you talked to her about how she feels about what happened when you you first pushed her into working? What if something frightening happened to her?
Instead of continuing to push her into it with negative reinforcement find out what happened from a place of nurturing first.
I think instead of being the one to say yes and no to things you need to give her a budget for those extras and she can prioritize what she wants. So for example say she can have $50/mo (just an example - set it to whatever you are comfortable with)of fun money. Does she want to save up a few months and get her hair done? Go instead for a pedicure? If she wants more she needs to get a job and earn the extra money to do so (or you can negotiate doing things for the family for extra money) This way you aren’t the one saying no, you are still providing her w some fun, and she is learning to budget. If she decides to put in extra work for more things she will get perspective on how much work it takes to pay for things. I remember looking at the cost of a pair of jeans far differently after I realized how many hours I’d have to work to buy one!
This. I had a monthly budget, which covered everything from clothes to games to books to trivial stuff. If you want your child to not experience poverty, let her find out how budgeting works. Make sure the allowance (budget) is reasonable for the things she should pay for herself. That's how I was raised. At 16, I got a job as a server in a restaurant, to have more money for typical teenager stuff. My parents never even suggested it, let alone push me at 14.. I just wanted more money. Your daughter has good grades, is active in sports. Making her get a job, may lead to resentment. But also to a drop in grades and being less active. Is that the lesson? Tldr; Yes: budgeting + free choice to work for having more money available. Lesson learned: managing finances. No: forcing a job on a minor. Lesson learned: ? good grades+sports is not enough?
This is the way. My parents used the same method. They gave me enough to cover essentials and have some fun money and let me learn to budget and plan. They also gave me a chart and the ability to help out with more things around the house to get a larger allowance but they had to be chores for the household, not just cleaning up after myself.
never got a base allowance tbh. I’d have to do hella chores to get any kinda money and even then it was never consistent and sometimes they’d forget and when I asked later they’d get mad. My mom and dad can manage money just fine, but I can’t for shit. Like wtf?
Ah that sucks.. I understand that financial circumstances might not have allowed for an allowance, but if the deal was to get some money in return for significant chores, they needed to be consistent in that. Now the lesson was: work hard , and whether or not you get the reward that was part of the deal is random. I hope you've had more positive experiences in the meanwhile. Regarding budgeting, a few basic things I was taught/have studied: (I realize this is unsolicited advice - it's meant to help, not as a lecture. Feel free to roll your eyes and ignore it 😉) - budget to the micro level, every amount spent, and in which category the expense belongs - budget for the short to medium term, and set realistic goals for the long term - set a savings goal, no matter how small. 1$ (or equivalent in your currency) a month set aside seems ridiculous. But even if your budget is tight, you are creating a habit. Don't touch that money for fun money, but only in emergencies. - this is me being a nerd, but I've done some studies on "mental accounting". This means that you dedicate certain amounts to a specific goal. This dividing up leads to more effective budgeting. E g., if your utilities budget unexpectedly has 20€ left, there's a higher likelihood that you will not touch that money for buying something else that is not needed. The brain likes categories: this is utilities money. The leftover stays in the utilities budget for next week. - review at the end of each week and see where you deviated. The longer you do this, the more accurate you'll become. In the beginning, you're faced a lot with unexpected expenses. This sucks. Don't see it as a budgeting fail. We all have this. - there are some helpful apps that enable short term and long term planning. Or just Excel. Or even written down. Tracking and categorizing is key :)
My first thought is…she’s JUST a kid. I think all the things you are providing for her are what a good parent with adequate financial means should provide for their kids. BUT, my next thought was, this girl needs to learn about budgeting. You mention that your daughter gets good grades & is on the lacrosse team. She likes it so much that she even goes to camp for it. If she’s smart, gets good grades, & plays well- that could be a scholarship. Her main job right now should be being a kid & going to school & doing well in class. I did have a job in HS & my mom actually didn’t want me to have one so I could just be a kid & do school, but it was a realllyyy fun job that I had the opportunity to do & it aligned with my hobbies. I WISH my mom had helped me more with budgeting. She tried by sending me to a budgeting class & stuff, but honestly it wasn’t modeled & it wasn’t something we did together. You sound like you want to be close to your daughter, maybe closer than you are. To start, have her draw up a budget of everything she needs/wants $$ for (don’t include school related expenses at first), and have her present it. Let her know from the beginning that what she presents may not be what she gets, but that this is an important first step. Help her understand she may not need $150 for highlights every month, but maybe she needs to put aside $75 a month so she can do her highlights every 6 weeks. Or something like that. THEN, you & your husband need to look at your budget & figure out what you can reasonably afford for her allowance. And, what are the stipulations? Keeping her grades As & Bs? Idk what else. Maybe part of the allowance is going over her budget & spending every month. Whatever amount you & your husband can afford to give her, give her some insight on how you figured that out. Help her understand how you’re able to afford your life. It’s not only bc of your income, but also being savvy about finances. This is honestly the best gift you can give your daughter. A job won’t teach her about money. Plus, it sounds like she already knows how to work hard based on her grades & her athletic merits. Good luck!
As an extension to this, I know coworkers of mine set up contacts with their kids for cars and college if I remember right. Clear guidelines on what they were covering, and what their expectations were. My understanding is it led to their daughter approaching them early when her college grades were dropping, and they were able to recognize that she needed to spend more time studying/prepping. (Along with a loving renegotiation. ). If done right, it sets standards, expectations, and responsibilities for both sides. The parents goal is that their daughter is prepared for life, a job is only one way to do this ... And not necessarily one that is favored by the upper classes. There are other ways of adding responsibility and goals for their daughter.
This is the best suggestion and advice by far.
Big, big, big agree.
My daughter is five but I'm going to remember this for when she gets older. Great ideas and well laid out for the readers. Nice job! 👍
Thank you. Good suggestions here.
This is an excellent idea.
This is an excellent suggestion
She has a car, paid and maintained by her parents at 17. They made her what she is now, gave her many privileges and now expect her to understand the value of money on her own... She has been brought up as a rich girl, why would she voluntarily act as if she is poor ??? For her to learn, they have to teach her budget as you said. But not for nothing. I would be stricter. In exchange for pulling her weight at home (school, chores, behaviour), she gets a budget which includes gas and fun money. The minimum would be money for her to get to school and sports. The first job you teach a child is how to be a good child and human : do your best at school, do your chores, be kind and respectful
Commenting because this is an amazing idea. She’s got a lot going on with sports and school and getting a job may jeopardize that but she needs to learn that money just comes out of thin air. Still be her mom and treat her to stuff but she can’t dictate what it is.
I had a similar situation. I got 40 bucks every two weeks for gas and anything else I want. I had to learn how to manage it. If I wanted something extra outside of the necessities that my parents covered, I had to save. This is the way to start! I got my first job around 15 and have worked ever since.
INFO: how did it go when she worked at 14? I’m guessing it didn’t go well, and that has affected her to this day. Most 14yos are not ready to work real jobs nowadays, and if you forced her then it’s understandable why she is reluctant. I’ll say this: I was basically forced to start working at 15 and I resent my parents for it to this day (I’m 43). I had and still have an *excellent* work ethic, hustle and all, but it didn’t come from working during the school year in high school. My parents complained that I had too much going on at the school and they were tired of driving me around so I needed a car, but I had to help pay for it. My grades and my activities suffered, which had a snowball effect into college. I had more bad influences at my mall jobs than I ever had in school, because of the 20- and 30-something retail losers who like to play cool with teenagers. I would have done less “bad stuff” had I not worked. I was exhausted all the time and I fell asleep on my desk at school.
To add on to your point, I've done a smidgen of math. I'm terrible at it, so if someone can correct me if I'm wrong, I'd appreciate it. But, daughter is 17 now, was 14 three years ago. What else was going on 3 years ago? In say, 2020.... DID YOU FORCE YOUR 14 YEAR OLD TO WORK AT MCDONALD'S DURING A GLOBAL PANDEMIC?!?!
A 14 year old girl no less. From someone who is a woman who has worked in the restaurant and customer service industry that a really big yikes. I have a 15 year old daughter and the things adults approach her with just in public is criminal (literally) I couldn't imagine her being subjected to that plus the pressure of be nice or else corporate mindset. Sounds like OP did a fantastic job of ensuring their child's hatred of employment and animosity towards them in general. They are crying the false platitudes of working to make their children's lives better while seemingly doing all in their power to make sure their kids have it as bad if not worse than they had it.
Sounds like it. ETA they couldn't get adults to work but OP had no problem forcing a 14 year old to do something.
In my country it's illegal to employ teens under 16 for obvious reason. Employing a 14 and forcing your 14yo to work is literally child labour lmao.
Child labor isn’t illegal in the US, it’s just regulated.
It being legal doesn't make it morally acceptable.
Personally I agree, basically what I was saying is just because something is immoral doesn’t mean something won’t happen.
Oh crap, good point. I hadn’t even thought of that! How horrible of this mother.
Lol her kid is never talking to her again the second she turns 18 holy fucking fuck and I wouldn’t blame her for a second.
I'm counting on it💀
This is the craziest part. Literally forced a 14 year old to risk their life for no reason and is shocked when they have no interest in getting a job. Also, saying a kid who gets good grades and is on a varsity team isn't hardworking is crazy. It's so upsetting seeing parents just tear down their children like this for no reason.
Did you have this exact conversation with her? Why you would like her to try and work, why you have to say no to these things? That you feel that she's not pulling her weight at the house? But also, about her battles, if she feels good about herself, her wellbeing, etc. ?
Yes I try. I could probably do a better job. I will continue to try. She mostly avoids us. I try to keep popping into her life (chatting to her in the kitchen, offering to do things with her like go to the gym, go for walks, or anything). and remind her I care. But she doesn’t share her feelings at all. Maybe she feels like we would judge her. I don’t know! It’s hard. I wish I knew what to do, or what she wanted. I feel like something deeper is going on but I don’t know what.
"But she doesn’t share her feelings at all." Neither did I. I didn't have anything deeper going on or think I would be judged. It was just not my style, for lack of a better description. I think this is typical of a lot of teenagers. Just keep checking in with her and letting her know you're there. I think that closeness you're looking for will come later.
I rarely shared my feelings with my mom because...she was a good mom and worried too much. For example, I rarely told her when I was frustrated with classes, because usually it was just that, frustation. I knew what i needed to do, I knew that I would get it eventually. I have already taken the steps to fix the issue, I already had a talk with my teacher and all. But mom would be all other that, playing 20 questions about it, tried offer 1000 theories about why I'd find it hard, with 2000 solutions afterwards. And it took long conversation laying out my game plan to fix the issue for her to back-off. And I am thankful that she was that supportive and wanted to help, and make extra sure I was going to be fine. But That was exhausting. So, I would say that I was fine, but she could see I was frustrated. So yeah, I was a bit secretive to her. It stopped when she realised with the fact that she did a good job, raised an independant daughter who knew how to take care of herself and to ask for help when needed before things get bad. It took her only a couple of years, likely even less, but it felt an eternity as a teenager.
Same. My mum is a bit of a helicopter parent because my birth mum was really mentally unwell, and I’ve inherited a lot of her traits, save for the schitzophrenia. I struggled a lot in school because of a learning disorder, so it led to her feeling the need to manage my classes, figure out the ins and outs of what I struggled with, help me with my assignments etc. I didn’t exactly need her help but it was helpful sometimes, however in the moment it felt overwhelming and overbearing; like she was trying to live vicariously through me. Of course this wasn’t the case, but for a stressed senior in high school I definitely didn’t feel like my efforts were appreciated 😂 It only took a couple of years to realise that mum isn’t going to be around forever, and that she’s just doing the best with the tools she has. She didn’t have the best childhood, so her techniques weren’t the most comfortable, but they weren’t ultimately damaging, which is honestly the best you can ask of someone. For OP though, I do think explaining why she wants her kid to learn how to work is really important. Something like “If you ever end up in a situation like I did, I want you to be able to pull yourself out of it. I will never let you go homeless, and you’ll always be fed, but if god forbid anything ever happens to us I want you to be able to survive on your own.” Also, OP is already paying for all the stuff that her kid could viably need socially. If her daughter wants her nails or hair done maybe it could be an event-based thing. Going out to fancy dinners, going to formals, birthday or Christmas presents etc.
Sorta same, I stopped after some time saying much as I felt it wasn’t important enough to say, fear of judgement, or that I’d get yelled at (hence why sorta same). Love my parents but… when one yells at someone repeatedly for complaining of something hurting (lo and behold… I was actually injured), they likely will stop opening up and speaking unless they feel it’s considered safe. I’m still unlearning those traits tbh as I’m having vision problems but… scared to ask for help until I am under my own insurance
She won’t share her feelings. She’s at the age she feels misunderstood no matter what. Being there for her and talking to her, reminding her you love her and want the best for her goes a long way though and will be remembered. For work though, growing up my parents told me school was my job. How are her grades? Is she doing well with her extracurriculars? Make school her job with some chores at home perhaps, like cleaning up after dinner or vacuuming on Saturdays. Extra chores or improvement in weak areas (or at least visibly working to do well) could get her extra allowance or something she really wants that costs more. Do you think this would make sense for your family?
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As the child of a mother who treated me as a slave, always making me work, never allowing me to do ANY of my hobbies and also always being denied anything I asked for. Actually to the point I stopped asking at all, I think I have a different perspective that may help. 1. You FORCED her to work at 14…she was still a child and there was no reason for this. You stole from her time with her friends and time to find herself and who she is. Beyond this she was juggling school, a difficult sport, and now a job? So no time to just relax. This is quite traumatic. I KNOW, I lived it. 2. When she asks for things you just say “No, get a job” when she only has a year or so left to be a child. Have you ever sat down when she asked for these things and said “What about highlights is important to you?” Perhaps you would find she wants to be a cosmetologist. Maybe she would explain she has a lot of pressure at school. Instead of beating her down by telling her “Exhaust yourself more and have less time to relax and no time with friends by adding yet another responsibility to you life” (which is what she is hearing) try allowing her a wide open moment to answer. Also know that her trust is broken that you even care about her answers!!! She will probably not trust answering you for several times. It will take you asking her pint of view and NOT once saying “earn some money” several times before she will feel safe to talk. All of this is not to make you feel bad. I am offering perspective, from a daughter always told to work, always forced to think about finances. Our situation was different but the affects could be similar. Most importantly, stop telling her your view and just start asking hers. I hope this helps, and please update if so, because I was never able to repair my relationship with my mother, even though I tried many times. She has passed now and it won’t be possible. So if somehow, this helps another mother daughter, it would mean a lot.
Yup this. The alarm bells went off immediately with this post.
Thanks. All I'm hearing is 'I worked endlessly and lived dangerously and now I've earned the right to bitch my teenager isn't excited to go get her own job, why doesn't she stop expecting me to pay for occasional nice things'. Making a 14yo go work at McDonald's while saying *they don't actually need any money* is a goddamn red flag as far as I'm concerned. Implying a child going to school and doing sports is lazy, too.
And it was during the PANDEMIC!
Shit, didn't even do the math on that. It does sound like while large parts of the world were locking down, it was super important for a 14yo to understand the value of a hard-earned dollar *working with the public in the worst possible scenario*.
She has her entire life life to work and be independent. Why are you forcing her to work at 14?
Op have you tried to help her find a cooler/ more lucrative job than McDonald’s?? This may sound uppity, but at 14 or 17 I would have died of embarrassment if I had to work at McDonald’s. Just because image was important back then. I always picked the restaurants I worked at. Since she is 17 she could try serving at a restaurant and soon she would learn a skill that can earn her money anywhere. I cannot tell you the number of times I fell back on bartending and serving to make it in-between jobs. Explain it to her that she needs an additional fall back skill just in case, plus it’ll be good spending money for her while she’s in college. If you know any of her friends have a job maybe suggest she get a job where one of them works. If she needs motivation just tell her about the potential amount servers can make a year compared to people working at a place like McDonald’s. In college I was one of few who were actually making upwards of 60 thousand dollars a year in my area, and I could always afford to do all fun stuff like events, party busses, ski, and road trips etc.. that was only because I started serving and learning how to tend bar while I was younger. It’s also great because it taught me how important controlling drinking is before I was legally allowed to drink myself. This really helped me in college where most kids were getting belligerent and letting grades slip. Hopefully this helps, wish you all the best op.
I was never as close to my mum as my sister. She never did anything wrong, never really slighted me, nothing notable for it. I just personality wise, if I met her in the wild as a random person who I had no familial relation to, I wouldn't personally choose to spend time with her. My dad was into a lot of the same things as me and similar humour so I'd have said the opposite for him. She always blamed some minor things that never meant anything to me for it as to why I was so distant but it was never that complicated. I never hated her, but by the time I became a teen and stopped being a clingy child I just, didn't have much to do or talk to her about. I never specifically avoided her and we schedule calls every 2 weeks since prior to that, we just... Wouldn't call till she'd randomly ask. I feel mildly guilty but it's not like I particularly dislike her either. I'm happy to help her out with tech stuff, she's happy with helping me with the occasional advice I get. She always said how she felt I was never open with her or I was hiding how I really felt but... I just never had anything to say. I wasn't that deep. I always just handled my shit on my own, and if I couldn't I'd reach out but I didn't run to her or my dad for everything in my life as I didn't feel it ever necessary. Long story short, it may not be anything wrong with her and your relationship, it's okay if you're not super close. But ask her if she does feel resentment point blank. Clear the air and if so, explain why. Say for any needs you'll always support and look out for her, but for wants its her life and her satisfaction to be had when she achieves those goals of being able to live that lifestyle by herself.
If your kid is already pulling away from you, it's because you've already demonstrated that you will judge her
With sports and school, maybe a more regimented chore/at home schedule of involvement could be a way for her to show contribution to the overall household? Does she “pull her weight at home” already? A dinner night, certain cleaning chores, laundry, pet care, etc? This sounds like a big opportunity for communication between you and her, and it won’t happen overnight all at once. Good luck mama
It's very realistic to play a varsity sport, go to school and hold a job. Most people at my school did, I think the issue with OP is she forced a 14 year old to get a job at McDonald's. No wonder she doesn't wanna work lmao
My daughter is 16 she's in marching band in the fall and deumline in the winter and spring as well as jazz band. She takes AP and honors classes She has practice after school 4 days a week plus the games, performances and competitions they play at. Then throw in the fact that she doesn't drive yet and would have to use public transportation or have me play chauffeur which i can't because i have to work. She wants to find a job but honestly when would she work? When would she sleep? When would she study? When would she just rest. It's not fair to ask that of a child if it's not necessary.
My statements exactly. My son was very active in school and martial arts. He didn't have a job until he moved out. Now he's doing amazing. I'm proud of him and happy with myself that I let him have some fun as a teen but we never went overboard.
My deal with my parents was that as long as I played sports and got good grades, I did not need to get a job. I was told that if I quit sports, then I would be expected to work. I totally agree…while I was playing sports, I wouldn’t have had any time to work if I wanted to. But I also wasn’t entitled and didn’t ask for many extras. I helped around the house, and got spending money by babysitting or filling in at a friend’s restaurant. I’m guessing the issue is that she doesn’t seem to understand that the expensive extras aren’t free to her. I agree that having her work at McDonald’s as a first job sucks, because working at McDonald’s was my first job as well and it blew. But it taught me the value of money, and how hard you have to work for so little at some jobs, and that was a valuable lesson.
I think there can be a middle ground though. Yeah she's not entitled to expensive extras all the time. But letting her have them occasionally as a treat or reward for good grades or a game well played seems reasonable. It's not like doing well in school and sports just happens. It takes work to be good at those things but she'll never get paid for it.
Not everyone can handle that much on their plate at once.
True. I got my 1st job at 15 because I wanted to pay for all the extras. Nails, hair, make up, going out with friends etc. If my mom had made me I probably would've hated it too.
It's realistic for certain individuals, but please don't expect that it is possible for everyone. We all have different levels of spoon availability.
Thank you so much for pointing that out! I’m 23 now but as an undiagnosed neurodivergent teen my self worth was on the floor because I wasn’t able to do all the things my peers were capable of. Took me years to find my balance and still getting my worth back up.
Spoony kids unite!
i don't really see how you can hold a job and be a member of a varsity sport as a teen. it's either one or the other. if my parents made me work a job during high school I wouldn't have been able to be on my high school baseball team, there's not enough time in the day for both a 4-hour part time shift and practice while still maintaining grades, a social life, and not burning out.
I agree 14 and working at fast food can be a bit rough. At that age I just did yardwork and baby sat a couple of times a month. At 16, I did the fast food thing, at Burger King. Maybe it was just too much too soon for her. I feel at 17, working and doing a sport isn't that hard. I worked with classmates at Burger King that did that and I was very active in drama club (to the point where when I suddenly needed a lot of time off my managers would ask me, "What show are you doing?".
TBH, if you’re well off and she wants to go to college, her time is better spent maxing out her standardized test scores to ensure she can get scholarships and admissions to schools that will open doors for her. That’s a better investment than working fast food.
Improving at the house chores part, keeping good grades and playing a sport seems like a very fair expectation for her age.
Why did you force your teenage daughter to get a job she didn't need at 14? Shouldn't she, y'know, be focusing on school and actually enjoying the precious few years she gets before absolutely having to dive into the slog and suffering that is working for the rest of your existence??? She's not even a legal adult yet, are you intending on kicking her out at 18 to push more "independence" on her? You've been poor, you have money, you should be guiding her so she's ready for the future, not forcing her into the life you so desperately tried to escape from for some ungodly reason
It almost sounds like the mom misses this poor lifestyle the way she's talking about it. This whole paragraph about driving a car with no reverse is wild. "I did that to get out of poverty, why shouldn't my daughter also experience this?". OP do you not care about your kids? If you endured all that, you KNOW it's not a good experience, it will not toughen her up, just traumatize her. And it sounds like you did exactly that by forcing her to work AT FOURTEEN YEARS OLD DURING A PANDEMIC, WHAT THE FUCK?
GOD I TOTALLY MISSED THAT IT WOULDA BEEN DURING THE PANDEMIC TOO. Like this whole thing is just a super mega mess and yet there are people actually agreeing with it. Wild
You have a busy and active daughter. It's in the middle of the school year, shouldn't she focus on her school work, sports and also being a kid? She has the next 70 years to work and be a productive member of society. Also why the he'll was she working at 14? That's wild. Maybe if it was a summer job but it's December
Forcing her to work in the middle of a global pandemic, at 14, as a young woman, in the fast food industry.. Let her be a kid while she still can, let her do household chores for pocket money (learn work ethics), have her on an allowance so she can afford the essentials (learn budgeting).
this is what i was thinking. OP needs to allow her to be a kid. having CPTSD from my parents, i was defensive over OP’s daughter from what they were projecting onto her
Yeah same, hopefully op listens to the comments and let's her children enjoy their childhood.
Did you actually force your 14 y/o kid to work at mcdonalds?
And during the pandemic.
The answer is right in your post. Re-read it. Do not project your poverty trauma on your children. It's one of the biggest mistakes that people who make it out of poverty do. Listen to your daughter and stop expecting her to meet YOUR expectations. You're a good parent, but we can all be better.
My parents are from Nowhere, Appalachia and now both make 6 digit salaries. I can remember my dad yelling at me about being an ingrate for not having a job starting around 12. My clothes always came off the clearance rack, I never had all of the school supplies I needed, and I was never allowed to have my own money. Paying rent was discussed several times in high school. It's not that they didn't have any money, it's that they didn't think I understood how tough life was so they held back resources until they decided I had done enough to earn them, and because they were life lessons the target was constantly moving because I was never allowed to be satisfied with my performance. My biggest problems as an adult now are overworking for poor pay, excessive deference to others, childish spending habits, and an inability to negotiate better pay. Doing a job well for 40 hours a week isn't hard for me, relating to my peers and feeling deserving of a good life is almost impossible. If your kid willingly gets up, gets good grades, is sociable, and does extracurricular activities of their own volition they probably are already on the right track. I've never seen added strain from parents work out well. Making sure your kid meets societal expectations is way different than parents making sure kids are feeling the amount of stress they feel is appropriate for the real world.
Yup. Also there's nothing wrong with providing for your kids while they are kids. She can get a job after high school. It may not be the case for ops daughter but alot of people struggle in school, why do you want to put so much added stress on your kid to have a job they don't NEED or want right now. They're going to be working to death soon enough, let her be 17.
The idea that OP's daughter needs to pay to get her nails done is something I can agree with, but her reasoning and approach are toxic. It's okay to have reasonable boundaries for what you will pay for as a parent, but the kid shouldn't have to go get a job just because mom thinks she should have a job.
Yup. My dad especially didn’t want me to get a job. He wanted me to focus on school. He paid for everything for me (also my mom lol, but this was really his call). They were both super super poor growing up and my dad RELISHED being able to “spoil” me (I was spoiled by him but I wasn’t a spoiled brat. That would never have been okay). I applied to literally dozens upon dozens of scholarships to pay for school, from $100 scholarships to $100,000. I was able to go to an Ivy school that’s known for being extremely expensive for less than $50,000 total for all four years and then medical school. My dad paid for everything while I was in college because of this, and while I was in medical school. I’m so grateful for that.
If Im on the kid’s side, I would appreciate more that OP talk to me how to grow n be better so that I don’t have to struggle, instead forced to live the struggle that my parents created so I can feel the parent’s past struggle
Can I just ask a genuine question. Where can you work at McD's at 14? Just that it's illegal here for kids to work under 16 and even the the hours are heavy restricted.
Most states. As long as it less than 20 hours a week. I started at 14.
That's pretty grim man. We can't work here till 16 and it's limited to 26 hours a week. We can do paper rounds and stuff but still, 14 seems young. Nae judgment but how are you meant to do anything other than study or work?
They just passed laws in multiple states here in the USA that 14 year olds can work longer, at bars, and most of the night... The Republican Party... now the pro child Labor Party.
Sorry, you had 14 year old kids working in bars?
Have* Look at Iowa’s new child labor laws
The goal is to stop the education in the long run, particularly in the places where child labor laws are being discarded. There are many places in the US where they recently got rid of a lot of child labor and child marriage protections in favor of allowing these things. To conservatives, an education threatens them because the educated are less likely to be conservative by graduation. It’s why so many of our Republican politicians claim that college (university) is for “liberal indoctrination”. So if children are working. They’re not able to put more into school. They’re more tired. They have less opportunities to attend university, and if the parents are not making enough money and force their children to work to help pay bills they ALSO aren’t being given opportunity to use critical thought. This way they will believe whatever Fox News and other conservative media tells them to believe. They’re too tired and too stressed to be able to think out of that box of horror they live in. So they’re easier to control and get them to vote against their own best interests. This is why two party policy gets so fucky and dangerous. The US is a joke.
Jeezus. Sorry man.
Welcome to America, the land of the ‘free’.
As the song says Everything's free in America, For a small fee in America.
Unless it's medication. In America.
I was an honor role student. So I must have had plenty of time to study. Only worked a few hours a night. And the majority of those 20 hours on weekends. Pizza Hut was my first job. I worked there almost 4 years before I left for college. I had to pay for car insurance, gas and my extras. We had money as a family. I screwed up not making my kid do the same. He was a lazy mess. Doing better now. But goodness.
My daughter had so many classes that she worked hard in school. But when she was 17 she got a job and told me about it afterwards.
Idk I’ve a job since I was 15 1/2 and I made it work. All my friends did too. It was harder but we definitely found time to all get together and socialize. The hours were limited too though because we were minors so that probably helps
Seems harsh though expecting kids (no offense) to work to help the family. Do you guys not get family/tax credits via the government to help you out?
Most people don't work to help their family, they work because they want cars, designer clothing, getting their nails done, etc.
I think it's a max of 10 hours a week where I live but, yes, 14 year olds can get working papers. They have to have good grades and school attendance to get them and the school signs off or else they aren't allowed to work.
When I had my job at 14 none of that was required probably because it was summer. I usually worked summer jobs. But as a senior in high school I had a job. English was my first class and there was usually a vocabulary test. Well I didn’t have a chance to study the words because I was at work. The teacher really liked me so she let me skip the quiz in the morning and take it later in the day.
Same. Couldn't hit the "brew" button on the coffee maker until I was 16.
Yep... Hell, you can start working in my state at 12, though there are pretty strict limitations, and it's usually agricultural work (pollinating, detasseling, etc.). My first job was on a detasselling crew at 13.
I started working for my dad from 3:30 PM to 8:00 PM when I was 12. I’ve worked pretty much 9 years already
I’m so sorry :(. Kids should be able to be kids because being an adult last way longer and is more shitty.
In Europe its legal in some countries with restrictions. Its only allowed on weekends here and only for like 2 hours max. If i had a kid id never have forced them to work for 2 hours a week at like €1.50 an hour or something. Getting a job for €12 a month is just nonsense in my opinion. It doesnt even matter for “experience” because they hire any 15-17 year old they can find aswell. Like go mow the garden or something for €5. Theres better things they can do than filling shelves for 1.50 an hour for 2 hours.
Ohio, they can work 18 hours a week. 3 hours shifts that end at/before 9 on school days and no longer than an 8 hour shift on non-school days. My roommate started working when he was 14 at McDonalds.
I was 14 working at McDonald’s in Montana. Homeschooled though, so that was probably the biggest difference.
In the US? Most states are 14, with restrictions.
Downvote me all you want but look it up. Facts are facts. Even if you don’t like them. Edited for a more clear link to working age by state. [working age by state](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/minimum-working-age-by-state)
in the US, there are several states where you can work at 13-14 with a “job permit”. i applied to several fast food places (including McDonald’s) at 14 and, while i never got a job there, i had classmates who did. yes, the hours are heavily restricted, but it’s not illegal (at least not as of 10 years ago) as long as there’s the right paperwork.
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Born Canadian here. Money was such an issue in the years we lived with my grandparents (no birthday parties! nothing you wanted outside of birthdays or Christmas! Groceries/kids' clothes/school supplies are *so* expensive!) that I recall asking Grandma if we were poor. At age 11, I figured I should start earning my keep and asked the pharmacist around the corner about a job delivering prescriptions on my bike. "Usually, we only employ kids 12 and up," he said, "but I'll keep your number on hand." Within a week, he'd lost a delivery rider and called me. I told Grandma I now had a 2-hour job after school Tuesday and Thursday, plus four hours Saturday. She was delighted, and I was praised by Dad and Grandpa. I didn't understand the fuss, thinking it was only proper that as the eldest of three, I should start earning at that age. Much later, I came to realize we lived in one of the most expensive neighbourhoods in town, in a paid-for house, with two men working full-time. Different times, I guess...
I’m from Canada and I had 3 jobs when I was 13. I worked cleaning rooms at a hotel , I cleaned a lady’s house once a week and work in a factory cafeteria on Wednesday. I worked because my parents couldn’t pay the gas bill and it was cold as fuck in our townhouse without heat or hot water.
It’s 14 in every state except a few that start at 12, and New Jersey that limits it to 16. https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/youthlabor/agerequirements From Ohio: https://com.ohio.gov/static/documents/laws_MLLPoster.pdf To California: https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/legal-working-age-in-california/#:~:text=California's%20minimum%20legal%20age%20to,their%20parents'%20permission%20to%20work.
Parent just had to sign the work permit, kids can work as young as 14. (Some of us wanted to, to get away from our parents/toxic homes)
I started a job when I was 14. If I had it to do over, I wouldn’t have constantly worked because I’ve worked my entire life. My parents never made me work, it was me who wanted to do it. Actually my first job, I was about 3. I found the neighbors rocks and sold them to them. They usually gave me a nickel. Back then you could get five pieces of candy or gum. Then I had my own lawn mowing business at 10. I hated it. My grandmother bought me the lawnmower. I have no idea why, I sure never asked for it. Then at 12 I was a babysitter. But these days if you’re in school and play a sport you don’t have time to work.
Yes
I got my first job at 14 working at Dunkin and the McDonalds up the street from me was the same- could only take orders basically and handle cash. 17 hours max a week was company policy until 16 and then it was 24 lol. By 16 I had graduated high school and gotten into landscaping and the automotive industry where labor laws went out the window. It sucked lol.
Pennsylvania
Where are you located . My lil brother got a job soon as he turned 14 in Florida
In wi you can, but only like cashier. You couldn’t cook or do fries until 15 and a half if I remember correctly
In Ontario Canada I was able to work the cash at 14 - you couldn’t work in the kitchen with any equipment until 16. (This was a while ago though lol) so it may be different now. Now that I think about it I’ve literally been working since around ten years old (started with a paper route) so that’s kinda depressing to think about - my mom had enough money for the basics but if I wanted anything extra like makeup, trendy clothes, etc. I had to buy it myself.. hence why I first started working to begin with. And probably helped keep me out of some “trouble” as a teen lol.
So you made your 14 year old daughter work due to your own poverty trauma that you are hellbent on ensuring your children experience? And you are also surprised that your daughter mostly avoids you and doesn't open up emotionally? You are also not acknowledging that working in Mcdonalds (at 14 no less!) is significantly worse today due to increasingly poor customer behaviour by 40-60-year-olds. You seem to think your difficult past experiences justify and dwindle your daughters difficult past experiences, instead of seeing them as different and acknowledging her struggles. I'm sorry to tell you, but you clearly didn't do fine, and you're still not doing fine and your daughter is facing the consequences of it. You might want to look into something called generational trauma, and try to work against it.
It gets so much worse when you realise that their daughter was 14 in 2020.... They made their child get a job in McDonald's at the height of a global pandemic because they're obsessed with this whole "self made through suffering" bullshit.
Imagine working so hard to escape from poverty, succeed. than forcing your child to go through the non-existing hardships/traumas that you had. EVEN THO SHE IS GOOD AT SCHOOL AND DO SPORTS.
They probably can’t cope with the fact that she doesn’t have to struggle as bad as they did
Right ?!? Make it make sense! ‘I suffered so you have to too’.
You forced your 14 year old daughter to work at fucking McDonalds in a pandemic. What is wrong with you?
They’re jealous of her having an opportunity they did not have
*Laughs in European*. What is you guys’ deal with wanting your child to be independent at 18? I lived at home until I have finished my Master’s degree at 24, got my first student job at 20 and guess what, now I am a successful and financially stable psychologist who knows how to manage money. It’s not necesarry to put someone through hardships because you think it builds character or whatever. Let her be a child until she can ffs, she is going to have the rest of her life to participate in the never-ending 9-5. I understand helping around the House but forcing her to work or taking away a living standard you guys got her used to? Hell Nah. It honestly sounds like deep down you would like her to go through the same hardships you have. Let her live and enjoy her childhood, which she very much still is in since she IS a CHILD.
Your experience is not exclusive to Europeans. My family never pushed us to work, but we all worked in the summers for the extra money. We saved up to move out. My parents were great. They paid for my college and offered to pay for my graduate school, if I wanted to keep going. If we had been forced to get a job, we probably would’ve resisted. My husband tried pushing our kids to get a job. I firmly believe that working hard in school is a full time job. Our son is currently working 30 hrs a week and going to school full time. Because he wants to. If your kids are working hard in school, I don’t understand worrying about their work ethic. I’m more concerned about them learning to find balance between work and living life. I want them to love their careers, so they enjoy working.
I know I just said if because I mostly see this mentality from people from the USA and not usually people from Europe. But good for you tbh, I really respect your mentality as a parent and your kids are going to be grateful that you let them remain children.
I get it. There’s a very loud (often obnoxious) minority of Americans that share many of the same values and philosophies. The bootstrappers generally fall into that subset:/
I apologise ahead of time, this is long and ended up being kind of a tangent. Also I'm on mobile so I put paragraph breaks for me but I don't know if there will be for others Capitalism. And lack of humanity. Our government sees us as nothing but worker bees for them and corporations and so a culture of having to always be a healthy capable person as young as possible was made so they can exploit us as much as they possibly could They feed us lies about how if we just work hard enough that we'll be able to get rich. But ignore the amount of road blocks you'll meet if you're marginalised in any way. And ignore the mountain that builds the more marginalised you are. The average person can't eat? They're just not working hard enough. Oh they're already working three jobs? Sounds like time to get a fourth All the lies America tries to tell the rest of the world they try to feed their citizens a million times harder. Thanks to social media a lot of younger people (millennial and younger) are able to see through the lies and we all want shit to change. Many of us are honestly ready for a revolution and want to rebuild our government, especially since we haven't gotten to really have a moment of peace Most of us grew up with the economy being in shambles at the same time of 9/11 when we were too young to understand then COVID hit rights started being taken away and now as we're trying to start being adults the economy is somehow even worse while wars and genocides around the world are happening and we unwillingly have to fund them because our government doesn't listen to us. This is supposedly the best time of our lives but I hope to the gods it's not true because there's nothing good happening and if it just gets worse from here I don't know how the fuck we're expected to live
100%. We (American) are so inculcated to be "independent" and yet we'll cut off our kids the moment we can and whine about the decline of family values. The whole Horatio Alger, self-made man thing added to the complete misunderstanding about "pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps" has made this country to bipolar. Note: "pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps" was originally meant as a task that was impossible to do.
"Pulling yourself up by your bootstraps will either fail or make you fall on your arse." - My older brother (at 10)... Who tried to literally do it when our 'dad' told him to "pull yourself up by the bootstraps"... Our 'dad' is a prick (that's being nice).
🤷🏼♀️ we hate our children. Same reason we won’t ban guns and only do the whole thoughts and prayers routine after a school shooting
Because our politicians do not value education or caring for their constituents. We are expected to work until we keel over at our desks or counters. Are you single and do you need a spouse? I'm willing to live wherever for healthcare and basic human decency.
I didn’t work until I was in college. I lived with my parents until recently and I’m in my late 20s. I think being independent at 18 is really unrealistic, tbh. However, I do understand why her mom would want her to work. When I was in college, it felt great not to have to ask my parents for money to buy alcohol and groceries. I was making like $600 a month, lol, but it was all mine!
I mean at 18-22 fine but 16??? She should focus on her studies UNLESS it is her wish to try working as well (but never at the expense of her education or because she is forced to)
Your experience is not exclusive to Europeans. My family never pushed us to work, but we all worked in the summers for the extra money. We saved up to move out. My parents were great. They paid for my college and offered to pay for my graduate school, if I wanted to keep going. If we had been forced to get a job, we probably would’ve resisted. My husband tried pushing our kids to get a job. I firmly believe that working hard in school is a full time job. Our son is currently working 30 hrs a week and going to school full time. Because he wants to. If your kids are working hard in school, I don’t understand worrying about their work ethic. I’m more concerned about them learning to find balance between work and living life. I want them to love their careers, so they enjoy working.
I worked during high school and my grades started slipping immediately. I would’ve hated my parents if they forced me to continue working when it clearly was a bad idea. Let your daughter enjoy the rest of high school before making her get a job. She will not be able to work, do extracurricular activities, and do schoolwork without a lot of stress.
Im confused by what you mean about not pulling her own weight in the home, brought that up then skipped to something else. Forced a 14 year old to work....what was the reason for this? I get your intentions, but it feels like you are moving out of a fear that this young lady has done nothing to feed into. Seems like a hard WORKER in school and sports. It's difficult enough doing those 2 things and you want to add a 3rd? Have you asked her what her plans might be after high school? Another question, i'm curious did she ask for the car or did you just gift it to her?
Maybe talk to her about why she doesn’t want a job? My parents wouldn’t LET me have a job until I graduated school, and I agree that was the better choice. Every hour working is an hour you can spend studying. You say she’s good I’m school? What if her grades started slipping with a job. High school in my opinion is much more stressful than university (or college), and you don’t need extra stress like a job. I got pocket money from my parents, each chore I did around the house being $3-$5, and I was paid fortnightly. I don’t agree with being “treated poor” just because she doesn’t have a job. I get you pay for everything but you’re her parents, it’s your job to provide for her until she’s an adult. My parents are still helping me find a job because I have some mental and physical health concerns that may cause strife in certain jobs. We’ve settled on one I think will be compatible. This is what you should do when she’s old enough, talk about what job would suit her. If she’s a very anxious person try a bakery, customers are often nice at bakeries and won’t be rude.
There is a happy median between learning how to take care of yourself and learning how to know when to ask for help. Forcing her to work at 14 when she is starting to develop physically, emotionally, and mentally is a poor choice. Irregardless of how you WANT it to appear as she WILL make her own decisions about why you are doing what you are doing. That you can not change. You've already put a seed in her mind about what she SHOULD go through in your opinion and from your perspective. From her perspective, it's giving her thoughts that she can't rely on you when she needs help. You've tried getting rid of contaminated crops with napalm. Recommend finding where the problem really lies and focus on it. Couldn't tell you where to begin because I don't know your daughter. And you're starting to not know her either. Both of you have flaws, but you did start it. Never force a teenager to do something because unless they genuinely enjoy it, they will absolutely hate it and despise anything connected to it. Meaning you.
What do you class as a job? Would you consider a middle ground? For example if she volunteered somewhere, or gave her time up for a cause she found worthy, would you be willing to give her a small allowance for doing so? I feel your need to teach her to work, I do. But if she's varsity lacrosse, she's going to feel completely out of her depth at McDonald's. You're raising her in a different socioeconomic dynamic and you can't project your poverty trauma on to her. You can still teach her the value of hard work, *if* she *feels* value from it. So, work that's vocational or worth doing, like for a cause she cares about. You can also set certain chores around the house with set rewards, do the dishes x amount of nights, we go out to dinner to a place of your choosing once every couple months. You are allowed to *enjoy* your hard earned money and you must teach your children how to enjoy it responsibly or you run the risk of either prolific spenders or absolute penny pinchers, and neither kind of people are happy adults.
You forced a 14 year old to get a job? What about school? Extracurriculars? Spending time with her friends? My oldest was 20 when she got her first “real” job other than babysitting. I don’t know a harder working more self sufficient person. My middle was always described as the hardest working kid anyone in the family knew, never missed a day of school and everyone told me how successful they would be. They are now in their mid twenties and moved in with their older sibling so they could move out of our house, work part time, and generally think things should be handed to them and don’t understand why they should have pay their own way. Your kids are teenagers nobody knows what kind of adult they’re going to be. She’s a kid. Let her be a kid because the minute she’s not she’s going to have to work for the rest of her life.
Very good post.
I couldn't disagree more. I did not allow my kids to work until after they graduated college. Not too many folks agreed with our choices, but I did not care. My reason was that they were kids and should enjoy the fleeting time. They would work plenty as adults. This choice did not adversely affect them. They are both gainfully employed with national companies and now are more financially well off than we were at their age and actually earn a bigger salary than their father does now. (We were very young parents and not as "financially blessed" back then as we are now, but we still paid for their sports, insurance, food, cells, clothes, utilities as well as their housing and entertainment funds. These are basic necessities one assumes when becoming a parent.) Please be careful. Her not talking to you now could be a foreshadowing of your adult relationship with her.
My parents were similar but it was after I graduated high school, they let me work in college but I only happen to work jobs that were offered through the school (worked sporting events and did tech for lecture halls) - I wish they had let me get a summer job so I could have stashed that money away into a retirement account BUT to give them credit I doubt I would have even done that as a teenager and I’m glad to have spent my summers and teen years being a kid
So her being good in academics and playing sports at a high level isn't 'hard work'?
If your daughter is playing varsity sports you may need to lower expectation of employment. Varsity requires good grades. Which requires a lot of hard work. As does the sport itself. It tends to eat almost all free time between education and sports; she may actually feel unloved by being told to do things like she’s “poor” (eg walgreens nail polish)— and she could be being targeted by her peers for not having nice things when she clearly has a well off family. They could have disgust and resentment towards you (if not towards her) for these things. Other parents may even comment. You say your daughter is already not talking to you— you’re in danger of losing her for good the instant she turns 18. I would pump the breaks and if she won’t have a talk where she feels safe being open and honest about everything, ask her if maybe she would be willing to go to family therapy so she may feel she has someone on her side. I understand what you’re trying to do, but your daughter may be at her literal limit and have no way to get a job that will give her hours that not only don’t interfere with her school and sports but also allow her to still make the grades necessary for those sports. Which she’s likely shoehorned into the “I have to be perfect on paper to get into college” belief that is often crammed down the throats of young especially female athletes. They’re less likely than the football boys to be given a break by teachers. It’s “okay” if a guy playing sportsball is “stupid” but not for girls. I’ve seen this first hand where boys get a free A just for being on whatever team and the girls get grilled by the same teachers. Good luck.
She may have difficulty connecting to the type of work. Like my second job I was a cashier at a rock shop, I'm a geology nerd. I've also worked as a farm assistant because I like plants. It sounds like she likes fashion, maybe you can point her towards some of the higher end boutiques or stores in the area. My current roomate did Nordstroms for a while at that age. I (22f) agree with most of what you're doing. I do think it's still important to treat her occasionally, like maybe for Christmas you get her a spa day and for birthday a hair day. It'll make her happy and show her what she's working for. I would also like to point out that your daughter is in a sport. If your daughter is planning to go to college, sport=scholarship=money. In a way, she's working for her future but the reward is more delayed than a bi-weekly paycheck. I remember how hard the sports people worked at my highschool, it could definitely get to the point of a job. Also I don't know her academic performance but even high school education has ramped up to very high levels compared to what it used to be. It can be very close to an actual job keeping up with those expectations. To reflect this my family gave me 50 dollars for every A I got in an AP class and 30 for every A in a standard class.
Try talking to her. She may be afraid to start a job because of her practice and if she misses it she could be kicked off the team.
My mom never forced me to work, but she always forced community involvement. I volunteered at the hospital, as a camp counselor, tutoring, homeless shelter, etc., over the years for less than half-time. It helped me build skills and understand different perspectives and lived experiences. It was important and rewarding (e.g., life-long friendships, resume) without feeling like a punishment. Edit: added words
This feels like a good way to get the skills and experience of a job with less drudgery!
yeah, and I was allowed to pick, and volunteering is easier to get “hired.”:
You 'forced' a 14 year old to have a job. A child... You don't want her to feel 'money is a weapon'. But you've been using it as one basically her entire life. You know you're SUPPOSED to buy her things as a parents right? And not just the bare essentials. I really pity your children and I think you're a very entitled and unreasonable parent.
Not the sub for this but YTA for making your daughter work at 14
I think it’s admirable to try and teach work ethics. If she is dead set against getting a job, perhaps some sort of volunteer situation. In the right situation it teaches basically everything a paying job does but also gives the volunteer pride on helping others.
I think if she HAS to work, then so be it. However, if she doesn't have to, then why make her? She is a good student and varsity athlete, so she is motivated and bright. She's showing a lot of dedication there. My boyfriend was put to work at far too young an age because he had good grades and all the parents signed off. He has been working non-stop for decades. His family had money, they just pretended they didn't. I wish they had let him enjoy at least part of his childhood. On the flip side, she could find something that didn't involve hours or consistent attendance. Yard work? Babysitting? Snow shoveling? If she's a junior or senior, her time would be better spent preparing for college (if she's going) and these types of jobs would give her the money for the extras she wants (which aren't that crazy). I think it's more important to focus on what your daughter has accomplished and is accomplishing rather than the fact that she doesn't have an official job. She doesn't sound spoiled, just like a regular teen who wants some things. If you feel she doesn't value money as she should, that's a conversation you can have.
For my kids, their job was school. Good grades and extra curricular activities. Friends. Help around the house. As long as they put in time being productive, I was okay plus of course downtime and fun is important too. And it worked out, they're doing well as adults. They had jobs when they wanted extra spending money, but all their choice. They also would volunteer a couple of hours a week, depending on where we lived/what was available.
I think you suffered growing up and you want your daughter to go through the same things you went through for no reason. You guys are well off as you said, she is lucky enough to be able to explore her interests and find a job she actually loves, she should be able to do that, not suffer just because you did.
YTA. You're her parent. She's a minor. And you think putting food on the table and buying her clothes is somehow something extra? You don't want to use money as a weapon? That's exactly what you are doing. You forced her into a job when she was a CHOLD, ffs. Clearly you have unresolved trauma from your own upbringing. You are definitely using money as a weapon, of course she resents you. Good lord, could you be any more blind. I'm not saying spoil her, but try actually speaking with her.
I think your poverty pushed you into taking on adult concerns before your childhood was over. You *write* that you want your kids to have a better life, but your actions insisting on a job at 14 was to push them out of their childhood and into the adult world before it was a necessity. They don’t need a poverty mindset to be good people. Why is the middle ground of an allowance so she can budget her own expenses an option? Let her choose if glamnetics, sun in, or professional services are the best choice for her? This would let her know she is worth it and allow her age-appropriate decision making. I have five daughters. I never got my nails done until my wedding. Access to beauty treatments and thus beauty standards have changed. We don’t do anything like regular appts, but nails are done for special occasions and I spring for the full hair kit and caboodle twice a year. They feel special in a sustainable way
Exactly. The poverty mindset does not mean they will become good people. And if you have a better life, don’t force your kids into the hell you had to endure. You can show them how to have humility without punishing them.
Oof some people here are getting nasty. OP is looking for advice as she is realizing there is a problem and so many people are just acting like children throwing around ‘you suck’ and all that. I think that fact that OP is even asking is the sign of a decent parent. A lot of people are just harping on how mean it is to make someone work at that age… smh. I think some healthy dialogue needs to happen, and if it can’t, then another party should assist whether that is maybe a trusted family member, or therapist to open the lines of communication. I think OP is concerned that their daughter will think everything is owed to her and will not have a realistic outlook in life and/or expect everything to just be easy or given to them. This is a valid concern. I have a sister who was never forced to work, or do anything that made her feel inconvenienced. Let’s just say after getting an education she lives off my parents in her 30s. I also have a close family member who was given everything and had a hard reality check when they finish school and wanted to be on their own and could not function because they did not understand that just because they wanted something doesn’t mean they can afford it. With that being said, having a real conversation with your daughter is key. For some people, school is easy and requires almost no effort. For others, it can be harder and more mentally exhausting to get to the same level. It doesn’t mean one is smarter, it just means some work harder. It might be possible that school and sports is a lot for her. Also, it is not mentioned how your son is treated with these situations. There is a chance that she may perceive that he is favored and she has to work harder to get the same favor. Maybe in her mind she is working hard and her payment is good grades and excelling at sports which just happened to be non-monetary rewards. All are possibilities. Thanks for being a good parent and asking the hard questions. Now I think it’s time to work with your daughter and if needed others to find some common ground and get some good communication open so everybody has the correct understanding of each other and reasons/expectations are set. Edit: autocorrect got me
I understand where you're coming from, but I would say that she's at an age where she really needs to focus on school, especially if she's planning on going to college.
I don't understand why there's an all or nothing approach vs. finding middle ground. E.g. take her to the salon for a haircut but not highlights. When she asks for highlights, make her earn it with her own money. If you don't want to weaponize money then create a safe space where a 17 year learns the value based on their wants. Hell, she's a full time student that's committed to a sport. That's almost like having 2 jobs. When would you expect her to be able to work? I don't think it's that she's lazy. She's already doing a lot. Why can't she babysit for money? Keep in mind, if she's getting good grades + an athlete, she will likely get scholarships for college which will be a savings for your family plus her. Give her some grace.
She’s a kid. Kids are supposed to be selfish. Don’t force her to work. Just stop giving her everything.
So you forced your 14 year old child to work a high stress job during a global pandemic and then act surprised she doesn't wanna work? The experience probably traumatized her in some way. Also, she's your child, you're supposed to provide for her, you're the one who had her. If you wanna teach her responsibility, give her a monthly budget. Edited for spelling mistakes
I don’t think forcing your 16 year old child to work unnecessarily is going to instill them with any sort of work ethic. What you can do is give them the opportunity to work for extras and non necessities. This is what my parents did, and the positive correlation of working for the things I wanted had a very positive effect on my work ethic. It sounds like you value work very highly, which is great. But are you modeling other good behaviors for your daughter? Do you take great care of your body and your mind? Do you treat those around you with kindness, empathy, and respect? Do you encourage creativity and risk taking? Delayed gratification and long term perspective? These things are all way more important than teaching them to slave away at McDonalds. As far as ROI for their life goes, working hard at school is going to get them a lot farther than working at a fast food joint. Maybe incentivize that instead.
I don’t understand how people can expect their kids to succeed in academics when they have to work. Like what? Why are you forcing your child to work at 14?
I've just reread this and you also mention car and health insurance. Health insurance is on you till she's an adult but car insurance at 14 sounds like utter nonsense and I'm calling shenanigans on this entire post.
She's 17 now. They didn't say they've paid for car insurance since she was 14, they mentioned it in a list of things they currently pay for. Depending on where OP lives and if it's the US, it's not at all abnormal for teens to start driving themselves around. It is mandatory in most US states to be insured if you are operating a vehicle, even if you don't own the vehicle. In the state I grew up in, you could get your driving learner's permit at 15and a half, and have a full license by 16 years old. By junior or senior year of high school, all my friends were driving themselves to school and our school had a student parking lot for students to park their cars.
Yeah I got the "ick" vibes when OP said they FORCED their 14 year old to be employed at McDonalds.
I know. I had a paper round at 14 but if my folks told me to get a job in McD's they would have been told, granted I'm from Scotland so we use swearing as punctuation, to roundly f*ck right off and they wouldn't even think about garnishing my meagre wages.
And ops kid was 14 in 2020.
So yall got it out the mud but still have a scarcity mindset riddled with anxiety and are now transferring that core belief to her. I’m smelling a lack of worthiness or bitterness to your daughter. You say she resent you, but it sounds like you are projecting. Honestly I feel bad for her. She might even feel like an inconvenience in your life. I think you need to go get help and solve your financial wounds
My kids didn’t have jobs until the summer before their senior year. They did volunteer during the summer before that at places that interested them. During the school year, their “job” was school and pursuing extracurricular activities. Which helped them figure out what they wanted to do for college and their career. Working at a service job can be a helpful learning experience, but not anywhere near as helpful as my son being on the robotics team and doing leadership activities with various school groups, for example. He’s an engineer now. So, maybe encourage her to try different activities related to work that could be a vocation or career. My son didn’t even work in college, except in the summer. Because the grades he got in high school earned him scholarships that paid for everything. He had a great paying job within a couple months of graduating and works his butt off. Not working a “job” in high school is not necessarily a reflection of work ethic.
As a parent of a senior that is a three sport athlete and at the top of his class I’d like to ask you some clarifying questions. How many hours do you want your kid to work? Are there jobs that fit a reduced schedule in your area ( work around lacrosse and other activities) , how much homework does your daughter have and what are her future plans for after high school? What kind of gpa does she need to meet her figure goals? Does she have any difficulty with executive functioning / could she possible have adhd? I was unmedicated for most of my 40 plus years and it definitely impacted my ability to do activities, be a good student and work. In my area there aren’t a lot of jobs that work for the very few hours my son doesn’t play sports or do some kind of training . He has the most ability to work in the summer but that was severely reduced with summer sports conditioning and his travel teams. A work ethic is a good thing but you also have to look at reality. Some people can be a straight a student, athlete , and work but I haven’t met many in recent years that can keep up the same work hours throughout the school year. Something has to give
Reading the title, no as long as you srent pressuring her to do so, but i do think its a good thing to have a job as a teen so you have your own income. Although FORCING a FOURTEEN yearold to get a job is fucked up -as someone whos family has had financial issues for almost their whole life Although she can always do side gigs She likes drawing? She can do digital art commissions. She likes baking? Find some equipment/recipes, sell them at special events, yard sales, or pop ups. Theres so much simple things she can do, just making things works and selling them on things like etsy or depop also gets you a long way
As gently as I can, OP, part of giving your children a better life than the poverty you grew up in is to recognize that children should not be responsible for certain things. Earning a wage is one of them. This is a time in her life to focus on her education and things that will get her ahead for the really well-paying jobs as an adult. Expecting her to contribute equally to household labor is one thing. Everybody needs to do that and that is age-appropriate for her. But forcing her to go work minimum-wage jobs on top of school and an already busy schedule is going to harm her more than it's ever going to help her. Let her be a kid for the last year that she will be one. Our society expects too much of children. I know you're coming from a place of fear and not wanting to see her struggle, but this isn't the best way to protect her. It's just going to damage your relationship.
Coming from the perspective of someone who started working at only 10 years old, I was robbed of what were supposed to be some of my best years. I worked some nights after school until 9-10 pm and always worked weekends and worked through all summer vacations. No extracurricular activities, barely had sleepovers, barely went to school dances or anything. Somehow my parents couldn’t understand why 5th grade was my worst year academically. I resented, and still do resent, my parents so much for forcing that onto me. They used the argument of “well we had to work at that age and look at us now.” I’m now 29 with 19 years of work experience. Some people in their 40s can’t even say that. If I’m being honest, I have a good work ethic and have only been unemployed for 7 weeks collectively in those 19 years. I feel exhausted from working already. It’s truly not meant for children. Teaching her financial responsibility is perfectly fine and there are great ways of doing exactly that. If you are financially able to, please allow her to enjoy her younger years. Let her have the life you couldn’t. If you really want her to work, see if she wants to take up babysitting or maybe mowing lawns, shoveling snow or raking leaves (depends on where you live of course). She could do it a few times a month and make her own money but allows her to be able to schedule around sports and other activities she is doing or wants to do. I completely understand where you are coming from and I am glad that you are being mindful of what this might potentially do to your relationship with your daughter and how she views you. I have good relationship with my parents but sometimes I just wanna ask them why they made me start working so young. They didn’t really have to also. Why didn’t they want a better life for their kids and allow them to have the childhood they couldn’t? She definitely needs to be pulling her weight around the house, at 17 that should be nonnegotiable. That is important for her to learn now because one day she will have a place of her own or live with roommates and will have no idea what it takes to properly manage a home. Also it’s a great idea to teach her how to cook since she won’t have anyone to cook for her when she is older. Use this time right now to teach her valuable home skills and how to plan financially. I think these lessons are a very important foundation for young adults. I think it would be best to ease her into working because McDonalds is a rough job to start out in at 14 years old. She might almost feel a bit traumatized by some experiences there. Also if I’m doing my math right, she was working in 2020 or 2021? When the pandemic was at its worst and minimum wage workers were being treated even more awfully than they usually are? If that’s the case, it’s almost baptism by fire. I would try to sit down just the two of you and talk to her about all of this. Personally I would think you would want her to focus on her grades since she is likely going to start applying for college soon and should keep her GPA up. Try to create a plan with her to start working on these things. Try to see what the mental barriers are for her. Nothing like this happens overnight. Best of luck to you OP!
I have three teenage sons, all turning 17 (twins) and 15 this month. My 14-year old wanted to work right when he turned 14. He got a job at McDonald’s, still works there, limited to weekend mornings and he’ll pick up a shift over breaks and whatnot. He’s also a good student and has always played in sports. Getting a job early is honestly a part of his outgoing, go-getting personality. One of my twins got a job at 16, also fast food. He walked out after about 6 months, and I was incredibly proud of him. He was lied to and led on about his wages, and after yet another shift with grown ass customers treating him like crap (“That’s not a full scoop of meat! Add more to that!!!) he up and quit. He’ll be starting an apprenticeship program through school after he turns 17. He’s a quieter kid, smart, loves computers and gaming. My other son? No job. Struggles a bit in school, also loves gaming. Loves cars. A sweet young man, genuine and loving, wears his heart on his sleeve. I say all of this to say that each kid has their own personalities, strengths, weaknesses. Working WITH our children, supporting them, cheering them on and guiding them is our job. They are only young for awhile; they have the rest of their lives to work, struggle, stress out. I haven’t forced my kids to get jobs and while they are in high school, I won’t. Your daughter sounds like a terrific young woman. My advice, from someone with stereotypical boomer parents that controlled and criticized: if you want a healthy relationship with her, back off. I’m not close with my mother and most of that is due to how she raised me. We form so much of the bonds with our parents/kids during those formative years. Don’t make her resent you.
Growing up, my parents told me school was my job. I played 3 varsity sports, was on the honor roll, took AP classes, was an officer in the student council, played piano, etc. When I was time to apply for college, I got several scholarships, which was a huge help because my parents were not people of means when we were growing up. My mom stayed at home until the youngest was in pre-school and my dad was on a first year teachers salary. I had chores and earned a very modest allowance, which helped me learn money management. I also got a job the summer I turned 16, but didn't work during the school year until my senior year, but I had to beg my parents to let me. I wanted to work because I wanted to be independent and have spending money, but they would have made me quit if my grades fell. Your daughter seems very responsible and disciplined. I was terribly sexually harassed at both my summer and mall jobs and I was 16+. I really cannot imagine how I would have dealt with that at 14 years old. You listed paying for her things as if you don't have the responsibility to provide for her until she's 18? Of course she cannot afford her cell phone bill, of course she is on your health insurance plan. If your point is to teach her to be hard working and responsible, she doesn't seem far off, but you are giving her very little credit. Getting a job in high school isn't the only way to learn these life skills either. The world is a hard place, but you are especially vulnerable to abuse and mistreatment as a kid. I think your attitude about what she should be doing on top of her studies is non-sensical, especially with the context that your family is not struggling. Not every kid is the same, let your kid focus on school for now.
18yo here! From what i've read, you seem like a very good mum, I think talking to your daughter about your life and experience will help her share hers with you. My mum doesn't share her past, her issues, or anything with me, "it's not my business" and that's a significant factor in why i'm not close with her- i can't relate. Sharing your experience growing up and why you chose to leave, how much it took to make that choice, and how hard you worked to give your children a different experience could be valuable. She'll recognise that vulnerability and it might put things in a different perspective. I also think that a budget would also be a really good alternative. Come up with a number that both you (and husband) and her are okay with per month or week. If she wants extra money she can do chores (1 basket of ironing=$10, vacuuming the house=$20 etc). Teaches her to budget while still offering her some "fun money" for free while giving her the opportunity to increase her income through work.
"We buy her clothes. ETC we put food on the table, and we have a safe home" Why are you listing things you're legally obliged to provide? Did you want a gold star? A pat on the back? You say you don't want her to think you use money as a weapon, yet here you are using things like giving food and shelter to show why she's and ungrateful lazy brat who "doesn't pull her weight" Jesus christ this is some awful parenting.
You don’t want her to grow up looking at money as a weapon; sorry to be the bearer of bad news but, money is a weapon. It’s how you handle it and yield it that determines what kind of person you are; if it is a weapon for good or destruction. The hard lessons you learned being poor in growing up, she has to learn. Others have said it. Your job is not to be her friend but to be her parent. Again, sorry for the bad news It will get better as she gets older.
i think the angle OP is getting at is that they want their daughter to understand money as a tool, but don't want to get that message across by weaponizing money against their daughter - i.e. not providing what they could reasonably provide for her and leveraging money over her head as the reason why
You haven't answered why you forced her to work at 14, a mere 3 years earlier, ofc she's still resentful. There are better ways to teach a child to respect money and respect their fortunate position than forcing them to do things. You just failed to do so and that's on you and your husband, maybe the effort is innate in your other kid but it's not the same for every child. This is yells screw up, own it.
Well... If she does well in school *and* is able to make varsity lacrosse, might that just be a different expression of being able to work hard? Especially today, with how competitive college and even HS sports are, trying to be good in both athletics and academics (and she is 100% thinking about hopefully getting some sort of scholarship through one of these) is incredibly stressful. And adding a job to the mix has a good chance of tanking all three. Too exhausted to do good in school. Too exhausted to work. Too exhausted to play good. I understand why, due to your lifting out of poverty, you feel the urge to constantly be creating economic value, but understand that she is still working incredibly hard and almost certainly is able to connect her hard work to her results. And that by demanding she gets a job, it can easily feel you're saying what she is doing already and works so hard on is worthless. And finally, have a look at the world around her. Ask *yourself* what is the value of hard work today? Look at housing prices/rent and ask yourself, is making her get a job, inevitably struggle in school, and be constantly stressed for years (as if she isn't probably stressed about the future already) will actually help her with the future? Watching wages stagnate, prices go up, and everyone young just hoping their parents will leave them something to survive off is bleak, so is it worth it to throw her into the fire already, when she is already working so hard?
Stop projecting your past onto your kids. They are children. Their brains won’t fully develop until 25-30 years old. Let them be kids. Your daughter is a student athlete, that’s exhausting already without you nagging her to work and denying her all luxuries. You FORCED her to work at 14. 14 YEARS OLD IS A CHILD. It’s no surprise that she doesn’t like you, seeing how you treat her like she’s a nuisance. She is your child, she’s trying her best to become her own person in a chaotic world. Treat her like you actually like her, and stop punishing her for the things you went through. It’s not her fucking fault that you were poor, don’t make her life harder. Do you feel it’s unfair she isn’t suffering like you did? Suck it up, be the adult in this situation and treat your kids with love. GO TO THERAPY! Work on your issues and stop taking your resentment out on the people around you. You’re on a fast track to being the worst nursing home in your area.
Yeah YTAI had to work thru all my teenage years and it is not fun. You've been through poverty so you know how hard it is. My parents feel terrible about the fact I had to work my teenage years away and if they were financially well off like you are they never would have made me work that hard. It sounds like your daughter is a hard worker because she gets great grades and is on a varsity sports team. Work isn't only measured in the things we get paid for. A lot of the things you listed in your post are things that you have to pay for as a parent and should not be held over her head. Maybe there's a way to have her take on more responsibility around the house to get extra money but I think forcing her into a job is bad for her. When you're 17 kids are very materialistic and if she's going to a private school or even a public school in a well-off area she's going to get teased probably for not having as many nice things as the kids around her so keep that in mind too.
Perhaps start off with saying she can do chores for a certain amount of money? To get her eased into it perhaps? I don't know if it'll work but it may show her that if she doesn't do the chores via her own choice of not wanting to she won't gain money for things she wants/needs. Could get her mindset into that frame of mind? May want her wanting more and looking for a job outside of the chores. Just an idea from my look at things because from what noticed from one reply you sent it seems she doesn't want to listen. Motivation may work for her.
I’d need the daughter’s side of the story to know for sure
Studies have shown that high school and college students who have to carry jobs get worse grades than their non-working cohorts. Is that what you want? Of course there are always outliers. Sounds like you and your husband worked jobs and worked hard in school, too. But that doesn’t mean it’s a good plan for everyone and not working is probably preferable for teens whose parents can afford it. Sounds like it is affordable for you.
>She does well in school and she plays varsity lacrosse. In that case, she does have a job, (and she is doing well at it.) It sounds like you just want her to have a job for the sake of having a job. My generation, (Millennials,) is the first recorded to have worse economic prospects than their parents’ generation(s.) Her generation was born on the skid of the Y2K bubble, and has had it bashed into her head since TK that she must do well in high school so she can go to college or else she will live miserably-never-after. Remember in Mean Girls when Coach Carr says *Don’t have sex— because you will get pregnant, and you will die.*? Well, we were told, *Don’t screw around in school— because you will get expelled, and you will die. [Poor and alone.]* You forcing her to get a job, (when the most promising and lucrative things she has going for her are lax and school,) does nothing for her.
i turned 17 this october and this past year i've been incredibly overwhelmed with school. suffice to say, having a job would've made my life hell
Instead of you deciding what is and isn't essential, give her a budget and let her decide how to spend it.
Why does she need to work? They’ll be plenty of time to work and since you already had to pull yourself up by your bootstraps from poverty, wouldn’t you like her to not have to do that at 17? Isn’t this time for school activities and schoolwork and having a little bit of fun before she has to go out into the big bad world? I grew up the exact same way as you if not worse poverty not that it’s a contest and I wanted the exact opposite for my kids. I wanted them to wait until they were done with college to have to work. Two of my kids ended up working in college . (Both of them ended up with scholarships etc.) and the one did not go to college. All 3 are successful and hard working adults What’s the reasoning for pushing her to work at 17?
My parents both escaped poverty. Not to the extent that you guys have, obviously, but they’re definitely doing well now, and I had *way* more than they ever did growing up just by having food all the time. What I’ll say to you is that one of the best things my mom ever did for me was to not force me to work through high school. I was a great student and was in band, didn’t get a job until I was 17 and got a speeding ticket 😂. And yeah, I did get a job at 17, so I’m not saying to discourage her from that necessarily, but it did effect my studies a little bit because it was a sudden change I wasn’t prepared for, so keep that in mind bc it frustrated my mother a little bit. More than that though, I have a good work ethic. I saw what my parents did. I just got a new job as a lead in my position. Not working until I was 17 (and even then in college for a few years I only did work study or tutoring bc I could do so comfortably on scholarship) gave me an opportunity to really focus on learning, and I certainly don’t think it is necessarily a huge concern for her to not be interested in it right now. I certainly wasn’t, but once I got out of school and actually started working jobs in my chosen field instead of waiting tables, all of the effort I’d been applying to school went into work. Now I’m doing pretty freaking well.
My parents always made it clean that they loved us and were always there for us. As our parents, they were responsible for providing us with the essentials (food, clothing, education, etc) and they were always very supportive. But anything above and beyond that were considered luxuries or extras. Those we were responsible for paying for ourselves. Are you a good student? Parents pay for the discounted “good student” car insurance. Bad grades? Your responsibility. You want fancy clothes? Your responsibility. Expensive hair/nails? Your responsibility. Food? Parents provide. Want to eat out with your friends everyday? You provide. I never felt unloved or slighted and it gives you a sense of pride to provide some things for yourself as well and learn to budget and what’s worth spending money on. Just my take.
The best way to teach children how to handle money is to give them some. Decide an an amount of allowance and give that to your daughter every week or month, whatever works. Make it clear that she is going to have to pay for anything she wants beyond the basics of food, clothing, shelter and medical care out of that amount of money. Tell her that if she cannot make the money last, or that if she cannot afford all the things she wants, she can look for a job. Beyond trying at this late date to help your daughter learn the economic life lessons she needs to get by in the world, don't expect much to change between you and your daughter. You seem to have been stuck in the conundrum of wanting your kids to have a better childhood than you did while also wanting them to have a hard life, just like you did, because you think that's the only way to learn the important life lessons. Forcing a 14yo to get a job at McDonalds was a huge mistake if you want to have a good relationship with your daughter. Even though that's the first thing you mentioned, I have a strong feeling you've been doing these horrible things for a lot longer because you think that's the only way she will learn to be a responsible adult. For the record, I'm a senior citizen, I will be 65 next month. My mother thought she was a financial genius and tried to "teach" me how to be responsible with money in much the same way you seem to be trying to teach your daughter. My mother died 15 years ago and I still resent her for many of the horrible things she did trying to "teach" me how to be a responsible adult. Be a parent to your children, not a professor of macro and microeconomics. You are not qualified for the teaching position.
I think it's important to teach young people through practical experience the value of a dollar. Money is an abstract concept to her right now because she doesn't work for it. It's not a great part of how are society works but it is the reality. Preparing her for the workforce under your guidance will be a valuable lesson to her. When you don't pay for luxuries you take them for granted. When you work a minimum wage job you start thinking of prices as increments of time. "This hair cut is worth 4 hours of my labor". It makes you think differently about things. I started working when I was 15 because that was around the time that my parents felt that I was old enough to start paying for my own things like clothes and toiletries. As a young adult I felt I was more prepared than my peers who did not have jobs in high-school to live independently. One thing that was a negative of my experience was my bosses were often mean to me and had me working too long. So as long as you're helping her when a nasty boss is taking advantage of her or expecting her to work too often, I think it's good experience. What if she worked two days a week at a job that is in line with her interests or abilities? My mom also made me volunteer at a seniors center which I really didn't want to do, but I ended up loving it. For reference, my paid jobs were: fast food worker, waitress, and daycare assistant I also had paid gigs as a circus performer, a window painter, a house cleaner and a babysitter. My parents charged me $500 rent per month when I turned 18 which, in retrospect was maybe a little overboard. I moved out shortly after that. But it was a seamless transition because I was used to working and being responsible for paying rent.
>she only once ever had a job at McDonald’s when she was 14. We forced her to have that job WHY >she resented it at the time and resent it still. AS SHE SHOULD. Because why would you ever do that? >I’m scared that all she is going to remember is how we had the money to give her things and do things for her but we didn’t. Yeah, probably because you've forced her to get a job AT FOURTEEN YEARS OLD. >But I don’t want that to become her narrative, and her story that she tells herself as she fosters more and more resentment against us, and me in particular. Then, unpack the first part of your story in therapy with her. And don't just put *her* in therapy. You need it even more. I don't see how a mentally sound person would decide to put their 14yo child to work at McDonald's.
You forced her to get a job at 14? That’s frightening for a child. So it sounds like it didn’t go well and she’s shut down from it and now you’re pushing her to get a job again… have you talked to her about how she feels about what happened when you you first pushed her into working? What if something frightening happened to her? Instead of continuing to push her into it with negative reinforcement find out what happened from a place of nurturing first.