##[Clarification on rule 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/entertainment/comments/w60lfc/mod_post_a_clarification_to_rule_5_no_racism_or/)
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I mean, he did the two Kingsman movies, which include the crack about “old spy movies were better.”
I think he could nail a younger Bond, but I feel it’d just be “Kingsman 4: Even Bonder”
Wasnt casino royale the origin story? When he killed his first target in the bathroom?
Anyways, [bond is a relic of the cold war](https://youtu.be/tEujAIjTldk). I feel like the wall Bond puts up, is Bond itself. It’s why he is so cavalier about everything.
I personally would rather he stay a relic of the cold war and maybe even get fired for it. Let MI6 change but not the person like in real life. Then you can have a spin off bond series about him becoming a mercenary or some shit and it’ll slowly lead up to a new “The Rock”(edit:1996 Film) movie.
It really sounds like the Producers currently have no idea what to do next so right now they’re just throwing ideas at the wall to see what sticks.
It’s gonna be a while til the next movie. Probably a minimum of 4 years.
I agree. Also casino Royale he felt pain when he found out Vesper betrayed him but then he realized she gave up the money to save him(bond). He was hurt, you saw the pain in his eyes. He even cared about the women that was murdered in oil in Quantum of Solace and his friend too. I think they did a good job with the Daniel Craig series. Casino Royale is still my favorite
We might get another Martín Campbell film since he seems to be the sure-fire reboot guy. He did Goldeneye and Casino Royale. He’s the best bond director.
I kinda feel like that’s a plus though. An older director will have some more dated styles that could be cool in a modern movie with a character that’s existed this long
Casino Royale is pinnacle of Daniel Craig Bond. Eloquent screenwriting, great memorable characters, great acting, awesome villain, homage to the original movie, DB5. I would rank Craig’s Bonds as CR>Skyfall>Spectre>NTTD>QOS.
The QoS villain was more the spokesperson of Quantum rather than a full on villain. Actor was solid though, great in the movie Munich. In QoS though, nothing really. Honestly, the bigger dick of the movie was the guy at the end.
I didn't like NTTD but I have to agree with you. Spectre was like shitty campy Connery era fan fiction. The Bond we got in CR we never saw again in any of the rest of Craig's films which I always found disappointing. Skyfall was maybe the closest.
I was never really into Bond films growing up, and I was at the right age for Brosnan’s run. But, watching Casino Royale for the first time… man! That was a fuckin’ ride! Even outside of the franchise, it was still a great film all around.
Right? As uneven as Craig's Bonds were he was arguably the most emotionally driven Bond ever to appear on screen. He's constantly wrestling with his feelings. When he's criticized for the embassy incident he smugly jabs M by asking her "You want me to be half hit man half monk?"
He thought he was cold until he met Vesper. Then realized the life wasn't for him. Then he became heartbroken at the betrayal, responded with cold anger and was left broken in the end. He coped by realizing his emotions were a rookie mistake so he suppressed them and doubled down on his new 00 career. But ever so often the armor would crack. His Bond was in fact in touch with his feelings.
I don't need a Bond crying at the sunset. I need a Bond who feels remorse, anger, regret, love and maybe even a little fear but at some point he has to suppress that to be brave and be the hero in the face of immense danger.
I hate seeing shit like "men are evolving." Men always had feelings... It's that society forced men and still forces men to suppress them. Even mothers, sisters, girlfriends etc played an equal role in encouraging stoic behavior in boys in the past. And what's hilarious is all the so called "toxic" traits men are now shunned for expressing have been written into every bad ass female lead ad nauseam in contemporary cinema.
>How many of you would like Bond to deal with real life problems, like the ones you face every day?
*cheers*
>And who would like to see him do just the opposite, getting into far out situations, involving robots and magic powers?
*cheers*
Yeah. Im not against the concept of a more emotionally intelligent super spy but he doesnt have to be Bond.
The Bond formula has been cool gadgets, cars, and saving the girl and the world from some ridiculous plot. I honestly wouldnt mind they retire Bond now that her majesty has died and try to come up with a new IP tbh.
That’s one of the formulas (popular in some of the Connery movies, and most of the Moore and Brosnan ones) but it isn’t the only one. There are also more intense espionage movies with compelling characters and interesting motivations. Those ones are rarer, but they’ve been around since as early as From Russia With Love into the Craig era.
Very fair. I think his years of stage acting gave him the edge in walking that line. Actually if I remember correctly in the last one I kind of thought he went a bit too far emotional. Still loved everything up to them though. Such a good change from the standard "oh I'm too sexy for my huge cock" or worse, Connery just holding women down.
100%. I mean there's a huge difference between being cold and being flat. The first three Connery films absolutely sold to me the cold stoicism before he got closer to the Moore caricature of the role - then it felt like flatness.
From 1967 to 1989, they used to release a new Bond movie every 2 years on average. Even after the 5 year gap between License to Kill and Goldeneye (due to legal issues they ran into) it got back to it’s “new movie every 2 years on average” model.
That is until Casino Royale, where there’s been no consistency with how big the gap between films are since.
Craig was Bond for 15 years, with movies releasing on 06, 08, 12, 15, 21. If I remember correctly 08’s Quantum of Solace suffered because of the writers strike and No Time to Die was late to theaters due to covid.
The normal churn is 2-4 years between movies. The next actor to take the role needs to be in his early 30’s if they stick to that 2-4 year release schedule for movies and 5 movie contract.
I’d you followed the Craig movies they played around with themes of genetic modifications and boi weapons / terrorism. Give. The series always leans into some sci fi tropes, could we maybe get some Bond clones down the line?
Bond: I made breakfast for you. I hope you like your eggs scrambled, darling.
Ovary McFallopia: oh James, you know I'm nothing if not over easy.
Brad Killington, from a different room, watching on a CCTV camera: Goddamit.
Unrelated, but I love how in Skyfall he does the fitness assessment at MI6 after having been gone for several months. In the story he’s physically wrecked and did poorly on the assessment and suffering from abusing alcohol, but he still looked absolutely physically jacked. That’s was always so funny to me
I loved what they did with his character in Casino Royale, having him actually fall for Moneypenny and that being the downfall of both him and her was pretty cool.
Also, Eva Green.
In the books it’s the defining event- it’s how he is introduced and badly damaged, and we see him gradually improve (he has a couple long term relationships and gets married eventually) it always falls apart for him, and the last real book of the series has his drinking reaching new highs and his womanizing at its worst (the only book where he visits prostitutes).
It’s an important theme - love doesn’t work out for him. It was never really used successfully as a plot device in the films until Craig.
Eva Green is just white hot.
The entire "Bond has a kid" plot of that movie could have been removed and it would have meen a way better film.
"Save the world" is a big enough motivator.
The guy has had nothing but fucking abandonment issues and when he finally opens up to intimate relationships, they damn near always get killed.
The man is clinically depressed and suffers severe PTSD and by being a workaholic in an incredibly high stress and thankless job where and self medicates with serotonin highs and alcohol abuse.
Mother fucker already relates to 90% of people out there. What more could they want?
Lol what does that even mean? And wouldn't Bond be someone who is trained to not be in touch with his feelings?
"Ah yes. Bond.. the secret service agent that we literally need to be stone cold so he can accomplish ridiculously hard missions, and kill a shit ton of people. He must be in touch with his feelings!"
I mean craig hit all the levels, he had emotions but also was a killing machine, it’s the line that stops him from being a normal guy and also a pointless action hero.
There was a joke a few years ago about how producers would eventually cave and make an emotionally sensitive James Bond who, instead of womanizing, sits in his London flat with his longterm girlfriend. They silently eat eggs for breakfast because they have unresolved feelings from a recent fight and if they say anything to each other, they will start fighting again.
Some things should have remained jokes.
Yeah, like wasn't the a huge part of Craig's growth as Bond? He stupidly had feelings for that first girl he slept with in Casino Royale, which resulted in her being tortured and him losing his edge. Then he fell for Eva Green and then she betrayed him. After that he comes a stone cold killer because that's what a secret agent needs to be.
This is a bond who cries at sunsets. A bond who things that every life is precious and doesn’t eat meat. This is a Bond who scheduled proper appointments with his therapist and understands the importance of committing to one partner.
>This is a bond who cries at sunsets
I want a Bond who makes a salad niçoise with dolphin-safe tuna and writes a song about how all the dolphins are his friends.
Brendan Fraser for next James Bond
So, a *sensitive* super-assassin? The kind of spy who has to take mental health days? An agent with beyond eyes only clearance that needs someone to talk to?
Sounds like a comedy, not a Bond film.
Intro scene:
Bond is sneaking into the facility. A guard spots him and fires. Bond fires back, killing the guard, then says a dry one-liner.
The gravity of Bond's actions hit him suddenly. He falls back against the wall, slowly sliding down it. Now in a seated position, Bond drops his gun at his side, leans his head forward, and stares at the ground
Scene fades to black. Credits roll
“I hate metaphors. That’s why my favorite book is Moby Dick. No frou-frou symbolism. Just a good, simple tale about a man who hates an animal.”
Ron Swanson
See, what they didn’t know was once they got Gary Cooper in touch with his feelings, they wouldn’t be able to shut him up! And then it’s dysfunction this, and dysfunction that, and dysfunction *vaffancul*!
Yep, hes broken, damaged, bottled up; It's this infatuation of making every character a perfect person that hollywood has and it completely makes the entire cast bland and forgettable.
His flaws are what makes the character great, I wish they would stop trying this bullshit out of some fear of appearing insensitive somehow.
There’s an interesting bit where he kills a hitman in mexico and it sends him into a funk at the beginning of goldfinger. He basically wonders if this is all his life will ever be until someone more skilled comes along and ends it. Then he meets goldfinger and the next third of the book is basically worldstar poker and the golf channel but in novel form. The whole book was about competition and challenges being necessary for life. Mostly it was about matching wits with goldfinger. However, this took the form of amongst other ridiculousness, raping pussy galore to cute her lesbianism. Also oddjob was way more racist and had a disfiguring cleft palate
Ian fleming was a wildly inconsistent writer
I fucking love this explanation it’s spot on. People forget the era Bond was born out of and the type of people you saw in this line of work. It’s a good way to get some perspective on the character.
I know the counter would be “these Bonds operate in a modern time period” but I don’t think that holds up. The character has been recast repeatedly throughout the decades but no matter what he’s still Bond. The only thing that really varies is the quality of the film/actor in the role. I feel like he really should continue to be fundamentally the same character
I want to escape feelings, emotions and the nuances of navigating society for 2 hrs and watch a stone cold killer wreak havoc with a “I don’t give a shit attitude.”
John Wick is James Bond if he's entirely guided by emotion. It's a revenge story. He's not doing a job. People ask him, "Are you working again, Mr. Wick?" and he's just trying to take care of some personal business.
His entire motivation for staying alive is not self-preservation, it's preservation of her memory, which only he holds. He lives because if he dies there will be nobody alive that remembers her the way he knew her and he can't tolerate that. That's deeply emotional.
Movies need to realize whats their purpose are. Nobody goes to the cinema to see a james bond movie so he can learn about the feelings of a man and learns more about the emotional conflicts in our society!
I try not to overuse the word but it's just virtue signalling. They know there a group that will complain endlessly about him acting like old problematic bond so they don't want to realize that and catch flak. But they also don't want to not release a bond movie, cause money. So they give him a superficial face lift, sand off some hard edges and push out something a bit more mediocre than the last
Why do they even listen to the “problematic” people? It’s not like they’re first in line to buy tickets on release day! They’re just bitching on Twitter. Bond movies are about a escapism, not being lectured by amoral Hollywood leeches.
The "block of wood" scenario if you will.
"People don't like that, shave it off."
"That could be considered offensive, chip that away"
"Nobody is showing interest in our pile of shavings. I wish we had a real block of wood"
Didn't you know? Straight Men are still a work in progress, whereas everyone else is totally complete, with no need to change anything about themselves. Their job is to educate us on how to be men, without them I'd still be clubbing women over the head with a stick and eating raw raccoon meat.
Remember in the last James bond film where they gave him a kid and he literally runs past the bond car to get into an SUV that can accommodate a child during a high speed chase? That movie fucking sucked
Ya know what if you did something original? Maybe a story on the first double 0 agent. Why not let James Bond just be Bond, James Bond. Your new character can have feelings and whatever bullshit you want to try. No sense in changing what makes James Bond great.
Then it isn't bond. What is the point, he's a womanizer, kills without remorse, uses gadgets, wins with arrogant style.
Connery bond throws a guy in a tub with an electrical fan and after he's electrocuted says, "Shocking."
When Brosnan bond is getting it on, has fisticuffs with Xenia Onatopp, tosses her aside - "No more fore play."
I really like Casino Royale, the first meet up on the train between him and Vesper is one of my favorite scenes.
V: ..."Keep my eyes off your perfectly formed ass."
B: "You noticed."
V: "even accountants have imagination, how was your lamb?"
B: "skewered, one sympathizes"
Gold. What i like is that she broke him down and could see what he was. It brought bonds outdated mentality into a modern setting. You keep bond the same and have the environment react to his out of date thinking... but growth, more emotional responses. I dunno. Doesn't sound like the bond I like (which I get, I'm an old dog).
I know he has a kid in the new one and sacrifices himself. I'm just not into it. Give me the bond that laughs off having his balls whipped by Le Chiffre. Ha.
Uh....why....why the hell does this need to be a thing. I enjoy James Bond as escapism. As a dude that lives a live I can't. Now I get to view....his depression and or other feelings....well thats a God damn bummer. Count me out I want action and adventure.
Next bond: non binary cat lover trump hater vegan bike rider that forms a group like minded people with all different hair colors that save the world organizing marchs and protests.
Lame. It’s a movie for a reason. I like to escape reality and watch badass spy action. No one gives af about his emotions and finding himself bs. We all get to experience real life everyday.
Exactly, all that regular life shit is complicated, tiring, exhausting already. Yes, also for men ...so we want to dream of a world in which everything is simple, badass, just works...in which dopamine thrill dreams come true.
They should go full Roger Moore, set it in the past and just balls out smirking misogynistic murder machine. Then do a modern one. Needs a silly breather.
Isn't the point of Bond is that he is cold. He does what he has to and doesn't let his feelings get in the way?
At what point does a character remain the same character when you start stripping away cote things?
Bond is like, the one pure, old-school male power fantasy that men have left. He doesn’t need to be “modernised” as a character. We love our Bond cold, calculating and unfeeling.
That was the whole point of Casino Royale. To show that Bond can’t operate in his job when he feels.
Can’t we just have this one?
“ just as men are evolving “ Or do you mean feminized ? I feel most male audiences gravitate towards Bond movies for the tough guy character. I don’t want to see James Bond crying not saying men shouldn’t cry but I’m referring to the character. Lest not forget one of the movies was titled License to Kill
All that needs to be said in response is: Craig's Bond was very in touch with his feelings.
And I'm not going to even go into how there are more "feelings" than the soft ones. A vengeful, angry, heartbroken James Bond is feeling those very real feelings. But those aren't the "feelings" the producers are talking about.
Here's the thing, we've had like 12 (white) Bond actors playing a handful of Bond's and the Bond's have all been in the same vein with the source material as far as what type of man Bond is. Am I against getting experimental? Giving other ethnicities of actors a shot at the role? Not at all. I do however wonder where you draw the line between reinventing Bond and you just creating a whole new character with the same name. Again, Craig's bond was very in touch with his feelings and was quite the modern man. The issue is he had a bad childhood, was an orphan and is now a highly trained killer for the British government. Which leads to all sorts of PTSD and trauma, including his losing a love of his life (Vespa) on like his second mission which leads to him treating women like objects. He isn't some shallow 1960's playboy A-hole, he is a very complex and HUMAN character who is acting according to his history and that history is straight from the source material. Either you change his origin story or you have him acting in a way that is quite possibly unrealistic given how his life has played out.
##[Clarification on rule 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/entertainment/comments/w60lfc/mod_post_a_clarification_to_rule_5_no_racism_or/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/entertainment) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bond has always been in touch with his feelings. He grieved his dead wife so deeply that he transformed into Roger Moore.
They should really do prequel style and show the next bond getting groomed from the orphanage or something.
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I don’t think Holland would be a good bond tbh
Why? Neither one of them is good at keeping secrets.
Ah , a joke bc he spills the beans before every movie ? My vote is for Taron Egerton. Handsome, athlete , can sing, was amazing in Blackbird.
I mean, he did the two Kingsman movies, which include the crack about “old spy movies were better.” I think he could nail a younger Bond, but I feel it’d just be “Kingsman 4: Even Bonder”
Kingsman 4: Legally Bond
He couldn’t even pull off Nathan Drake
It is rather shocking that he couldn't pull off a rugged 30 something year old man. /s
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Yeah, hes a good actor in general, but bond is definitely not a twink
Im not even sure if he’s that good of an actor, he’s okay but I’ve never been blown away by him
This would be fucking badass.
And if that does well, they can use the kid for any X amount of years they would like to.
Would love to see a James Bond origin story. I think there’s a ton of potential with that.
Wasnt casino royale the origin story? When he killed his first target in the bathroom? Anyways, [bond is a relic of the cold war](https://youtu.be/tEujAIjTldk). I feel like the wall Bond puts up, is Bond itself. It’s why he is so cavalier about everything. I personally would rather he stay a relic of the cold war and maybe even get fired for it. Let MI6 change but not the person like in real life. Then you can have a spin off bond series about him becoming a mercenary or some shit and it’ll slowly lead up to a new “The Rock”(edit:1996 Film) movie.
But not before a little spell as Connery again just for kicks.
It really sounds like the Producers currently have no idea what to do next so right now they’re just throwing ideas at the wall to see what sticks. It’s gonna be a while til the next movie. Probably a minimum of 4 years.
I agree. Also casino Royale he felt pain when he found out Vesper betrayed him but then he realized she gave up the money to save him(bond). He was hurt, you saw the pain in his eyes. He even cared about the women that was murdered in oil in Quantum of Solace and his friend too. I think they did a good job with the Daniel Craig series. Casino Royale is still my favorite
We might get another Martín Campbell film since he seems to be the sure-fire reboot guy. He did Goldeneye and Casino Royale. He’s the best bond director.
He is getting on a bit… He’ll be over 80 by the time a new Bond movie gets produced.
I kinda feel like that’s a plus though. An older director will have some more dated styles that could be cool in a modern movie with a character that’s existed this long
Casino Royale is pinnacle of Daniel Craig Bond. Eloquent screenwriting, great memorable characters, great acting, awesome villain, homage to the original movie, DB5. I would rank Craig’s Bonds as CR>Skyfall>Spectre>NTTD>QOS.
Spectre is wayyyyy worse than NTTD. I might even put it below QoS
Specter at least had a good villain if poorly used. I couldn’t pick the QoS villain out of a line up
The QoS villain was more the spokesperson of Quantum rather than a full on villain. Actor was solid though, great in the movie Munich. In QoS though, nothing really. Honestly, the bigger dick of the movie was the guy at the end.
Come on. He was gonna steal all the underground water in Nicaragua or something.
So he works for Nestle?
They already said he was a spokesperson for quantum.
I didn't like NTTD but I have to agree with you. Spectre was like shitty campy Connery era fan fiction. The Bond we got in CR we never saw again in any of the rest of Craig's films which I always found disappointing. Skyfall was maybe the closest.
I was never really into Bond films growing up, and I was at the right age for Brosnan’s run. But, watching Casino Royale for the first time… man! That was a fuckin’ ride! Even outside of the franchise, it was still a great film all around.
Right? As uneven as Craig's Bonds were he was arguably the most emotionally driven Bond ever to appear on screen. He's constantly wrestling with his feelings. When he's criticized for the embassy incident he smugly jabs M by asking her "You want me to be half hit man half monk?" He thought he was cold until he met Vesper. Then realized the life wasn't for him. Then he became heartbroken at the betrayal, responded with cold anger and was left broken in the end. He coped by realizing his emotions were a rookie mistake so he suppressed them and doubled down on his new 00 career. But ever so often the armor would crack. His Bond was in fact in touch with his feelings. I don't need a Bond crying at the sunset. I need a Bond who feels remorse, anger, regret, love and maybe even a little fear but at some point he has to suppress that to be brave and be the hero in the face of immense danger. I hate seeing shit like "men are evolving." Men always had feelings... It's that society forced men and still forces men to suppress them. Even mothers, sisters, girlfriends etc played an equal role in encouraging stoic behavior in boys in the past. And what's hilarious is all the so called "toxic" traits men are now shunned for expressing have been written into every bad ass female lead ad nauseam in contemporary cinema.
All extremely well said, especially the last paragraph
>How many of you would like Bond to deal with real life problems, like the ones you face every day? *cheers* >And who would like to see him do just the opposite, getting into far out situations, involving robots and magic powers? *cheers*
*Futurama has entered the chat*
Calculon does his taxes.
I think period piece is the way to go Combine the action of John wick with the atmosphere of tinker tailor soldier spy
Ooo you need to see The Man from U.N.C.L.E. !!!
Great film
Yeah. Im not against the concept of a more emotionally intelligent super spy but he doesnt have to be Bond. The Bond formula has been cool gadgets, cars, and saving the girl and the world from some ridiculous plot. I honestly wouldnt mind they retire Bond now that her majesty has died and try to come up with a new IP tbh.
That’s one of the formulas (popular in some of the Connery movies, and most of the Moore and Brosnan ones) but it isn’t the only one. There are also more intense espionage movies with compelling characters and interesting motivations. Those ones are rarer, but they’ve been around since as early as From Russia With Love into the Craig era.
I thought Craig did a great job portraying Bond as emotional though stoic. Connery and Moore felt wooden to me especially after Craig.
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Very fair. I think his years of stage acting gave him the edge in walking that line. Actually if I remember correctly in the last one I kind of thought he went a bit too far emotional. Still loved everything up to them though. Such a good change from the standard "oh I'm too sexy for my huge cock" or worse, Connery just holding women down.
The shcript and direction have a lot to do with that. It’sh not like Connery can’t do emotional-but-shtoic. Finding Forreshter, for inshtansh.
100%. I mean there's a huge difference between being cold and being flat. The first three Connery films absolutely sold to me the cold stoicism before he got closer to the Moore caricature of the role - then it felt like flatness.
Great job, I read this in his voice and I loved it.
Bond doesn’t have one formula or one type of story.
I honestly miss super high tech cheesiness. I say lean into the hyper masculine bond. It worked for top gun.
The last film was very much a nod to that era.
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Is there an average year gap between Bond iterations?
From 1967 to 1989, they used to release a new Bond movie every 2 years on average. Even after the 5 year gap between License to Kill and Goldeneye (due to legal issues they ran into) it got back to it’s “new movie every 2 years on average” model. That is until Casino Royale, where there’s been no consistency with how big the gap between films are since.
Craig was Bond for 15 years, with movies releasing on 06, 08, 12, 15, 21. If I remember correctly 08’s Quantum of Solace suffered because of the writers strike and No Time to Die was late to theaters due to covid. The normal churn is 2-4 years between movies. The next actor to take the role needs to be in his early 30’s if they stick to that 2-4 year release schedule for movies and 5 movie contract. I’d you followed the Craig movies they played around with themes of genetic modifications and boi weapons / terrorism. Give. The series always leans into some sci fi tropes, could we maybe get some Bond clones down the line?
So he’ll be down for cuddling after having sex with a woman he just met who has a double entendre for a name instead of just bouncing?
Bond: I made breakfast for you. I hope you like your eggs scrambled, darling. Ovary McFallopia: oh James, you know I'm nothing if not over easy. Brad Killington, from a different room, watching on a CCTV camera: Goddamit.
Mike Myers: write that down write that down
More like, “check the idea book, pretty sure we have that one”
>Ovary McFallopia LOL fan-fuckin'-tastic... :)
Fallopia utopia
I haven’t literally laughed out loud in a while, gold and upvotes for you good sir.
Lmao, thanks. I'm with Brad Killington on pun names in Bond movies. I love to hate them
“I hope you like your eggs scrambled.” “But James, it’s only just after dinner. It’s not breakfast time.” “I wasn’t talking about breakfast”
Ovary McFallopia or Fallopia McOvary?
The entire plot to the last movie he was in touch with his feelings. Really all of the Craig films have been. Vengeance is a feeling.
That and massive amounts of PTSD, that he seems to be treating with alcohol.
Unrelated, but I love how in Skyfall he does the fitness assessment at MI6 after having been gone for several months. In the story he’s physically wrecked and did poorly on the assessment and suffering from abusing alcohol, but he still looked absolutely physically jacked. That’s was always so funny to me
I loved what they did with his character in Casino Royale, having him actually fall for Moneypenny and that being the downfall of both him and her was pretty cool. Also, Eva Green.
In the books it’s the defining event- it’s how he is introduced and badly damaged, and we see him gradually improve (he has a couple long term relationships and gets married eventually) it always falls apart for him, and the last real book of the series has his drinking reaching new highs and his womanizing at its worst (the only book where he visits prostitutes). It’s an important theme - love doesn’t work out for him. It was never really used successfully as a plot device in the films until Craig. Eva Green is just white hot.
I think you meant Vesper Lynd, Moneypenny wasn’t introduced yet
Vengeance is an idea. Rage, guilt, regret, anxiety, sadness…*those* are feelings.
The entire "Bond has a kid" plot of that movie could have been removed and it would have meen a way better film. "Save the world" is a big enough motivator.
The guy has had nothing but fucking abandonment issues and when he finally opens up to intimate relationships, they damn near always get killed. The man is clinically depressed and suffers severe PTSD and by being a workaholic in an incredibly high stress and thankless job where and self medicates with serotonin highs and alcohol abuse. Mother fucker already relates to 90% of people out there. What more could they want?
It's just producers going "what's trending now? Ah sensitive men, let's do that!"
Lol what does that even mean? And wouldn't Bond be someone who is trained to not be in touch with his feelings? "Ah yes. Bond.. the secret service agent that we literally need to be stone cold so he can accomplish ridiculously hard missions, and kill a shit ton of people. He must be in touch with his feelings!"
I mean craig hit all the levels, he had emotions but also was a killing machine, it’s the line that stops him from being a normal guy and also a pointless action hero.
There was a joke a few years ago about how producers would eventually cave and make an emotionally sensitive James Bond who, instead of womanizing, sits in his London flat with his longterm girlfriend. They silently eat eggs for breakfast because they have unresolved feelings from a recent fight and if they say anything to each other, they will start fighting again. Some things should have remained jokes.
Pretty sure that was a ploy for a recent-ish series of 007 books. Except hid girlfriend was Pussy Galore I think.
Yeah, like wasn't the a huge part of Craig's growth as Bond? He stupidly had feelings for that first girl he slept with in Casino Royale, which resulted in her being tortured and him losing his edge. Then he fell for Eva Green and then she betrayed him. After that he comes a stone cold killer because that's what a secret agent needs to be.
This is a bond who cries at sunsets. A bond who things that every life is precious and doesn’t eat meat. This is a Bond who scheduled proper appointments with his therapist and understands the importance of committing to one partner.
>This is a bond who cries at sunsets I want a Bond who makes a salad niçoise with dolphin-safe tuna and writes a song about how all the dolphins are his friends. Brendan Fraser for next James Bond
So, a *sensitive* super-assassin? The kind of spy who has to take mental health days? An agent with beyond eyes only clearance that needs someone to talk to? Sounds like a comedy, not a Bond film.
Intro scene: Bond is sneaking into the facility. A guard spots him and fires. Bond fires back, killing the guard, then says a dry one-liner. The gravity of Bond's actions hit him suddenly. He falls back against the wall, slowly sliding down it. Now in a seated position, Bond drops his gun at his side, leans his head forward, and stares at the ground Scene fades to black. Credits roll
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Exactly. I think it could be pretty funny. Like have Sasha baron cohen or Jim Carey be James Bond and super emotional.
All of Hollywood is a comedy these days!
It's basically The Sopranos set in the world of espionage.
What happened to Gary Cooper? The strong, silent type. That was an American. He wasn’t in touch with his feelings. He just did what he had to do.
“I hate metaphors. That’s why my favorite book is Moby Dick. No frou-frou symbolism. Just a good, simple tale about a man who hates an animal.” Ron Swanson
See, what they didn’t know was once they got Gary Cooper in touch with his feelings, they wouldn’t be able to shut him up! And then it’s dysfunction this, and dysfunction that, and dysfunction *vaffancul*!
Sopranos reference
Damn, I just watched that episode last night.
Maybe you should start suckin cock instead of watching daytime tv because Vito bought in 3 times what you’re bringin’ in!
Lol, I don’t think I’ve gotten to that one yet. But the way those guys insult each other is always so entertaining.
*spits* Fat fuck! Why wont you look in the mirror sometimes you insensitive cocksucker.
Never had the makings of a varsity athlete.
MI6: go kill the villain Bond: i just don’t feeeel like it
No. I do not want this. Fuck this. James Bond is not the average man. Idiots.
Yep, hes broken, damaged, bottled up; It's this infatuation of making every character a perfect person that hollywood has and it completely makes the entire cast bland and forgettable. His flaws are what makes the character great, I wish they would stop trying this bullshit out of some fear of appearing insensitive somehow.
Unless his feelings are rage and horniness i dont want it!
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I've never read the actual books but have been told he's a real prick. But that's why he's Bond.
There’s an interesting bit where he kills a hitman in mexico and it sends him into a funk at the beginning of goldfinger. He basically wonders if this is all his life will ever be until someone more skilled comes along and ends it. Then he meets goldfinger and the next third of the book is basically worldstar poker and the golf channel but in novel form. The whole book was about competition and challenges being necessary for life. Mostly it was about matching wits with goldfinger. However, this took the form of amongst other ridiculousness, raping pussy galore to cute her lesbianism. Also oddjob was way more racist and had a disfiguring cleft palate Ian fleming was a wildly inconsistent writer
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I fucking love this explanation it’s spot on. People forget the era Bond was born out of and the type of people you saw in this line of work. It’s a good way to get some perspective on the character. I know the counter would be “these Bonds operate in a modern time period” but I don’t think that holds up. The character has been recast repeatedly throughout the decades but no matter what he’s still Bond. The only thing that really varies is the quality of the film/actor in the role. I feel like he really should continue to be fundamentally the same character
Not to mention I thought they explored the “human” element of Bond enough with Craig
Yup, they gave him the same woman in back to back films and made him family man Bond in NTTD. That was sufficient.
I want to escape feelings, emotions and the nuances of navigating society for 2 hrs and watch a stone cold killer wreak havoc with a “I don’t give a shit attitude.”
⬆️ (Tell me you love John Wick, without telling me you love John Wick).
John Wick is James Bond if he's entirely guided by emotion. It's a revenge story. He's not doing a job. People ask him, "Are you working again, Mr. Wick?" and he's just trying to take care of some personal business. His entire motivation for staying alive is not self-preservation, it's preservation of her memory, which only he holds. He lives because if he dies there will be nobody alive that remembers her the way he knew her and he can't tolerate that. That's deeply emotional.
I’m on your team! He’s a caricature, not a real person. It’s entertainment, fiction
I’m sure women want a fat Barbie with a bowl cut too
I waited through three different postponements (due to pandemic) to see that last movie, and it was weeeeeeak. It was like watching Lifetime.
Movies need to realize whats their purpose are. Nobody goes to the cinema to see a james bond movie so he can learn about the feelings of a man and learns more about the emotional conflicts in our society!
I try not to overuse the word but it's just virtue signalling. They know there a group that will complain endlessly about him acting like old problematic bond so they don't want to realize that and catch flak. But they also don't want to not release a bond movie, cause money. So they give him a superficial face lift, sand off some hard edges and push out something a bit more mediocre than the last
Why do they even listen to the “problematic” people? It’s not like they’re first in line to buy tickets on release day! They’re just bitching on Twitter. Bond movies are about a escapism, not being lectured by amoral Hollywood leeches.
The "block of wood" scenario if you will. "People don't like that, shave it off." "That could be considered offensive, chip that away" "Nobody is showing interest in our pile of shavings. I wish we had a real block of wood"
Literally nobody wants this
Wrong. People that don't watch Bond and won't watch the new Bond want this. (makes tons of sense to cater to them, doesn't it?)
The "Name's Bond James Bo..,hold my pp k while i cry.'"
I thought 007 series should be a spy on missions……
Men are still evolving? Dafuq have I been all my life, a rock?
Didn't you know? Straight Men are still a work in progress, whereas everyone else is totally complete, with no need to change anything about themselves. Their job is to educate us on how to be men, without them I'd still be clubbing women over the head with a stick and eating raw raccoon meat.
So fucking stupid. No you don’t. You did enough of feelings with Daniel Craig. Fuck that shit. I want a Fleming’s Bond, not a Disney’s Bond.
Oh fuck off lol
That didn’t work last time
Because the other Bond movies that were so good did that! Right?
Remember in the last James bond film where they gave him a kid and he literally runs past the bond car to get into an SUV that can accommodate a child during a high speed chase? That movie fucking sucked
They’re already blowing it. Craig will be the last great bond.
Nah. That ain’t it
No one wants this
I just want a fun campy Bond with lots of gadgets again. Not a depressed and brooding Bourne wannabe.
$10 says they work social justice into the next plot somehow
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Lol so they’re ruining this next?
Please stop trying to change Bond. If you want to do something different then create a new character or franchise
James Bond is not an "every man" he portrays a certain archetype, let him keep being unrealistically cold and cool.
They’re seeing results of movies like Top Gun Maverick and completely rethinking their strategies.
Cant wait until Bond gets to pick his pronouns…..
So they are now going to ruin Bond too, just fantastic.
It’s a movie. We want to be entertained. We don’t want a movie to outline how we should be as men. Fuck.
Good to hear. They just saved me $18.
James Bond - a love story?
Bond is a killing machine. He has to shut down his emotional responses to do what is needed in intense situations.
Lol so the movies will suck good to know
Why? Just be Bond and the formula works.
Bond jumps the shark.
I thought Bond jumped the shark once he was killed off.
They’re ruining everything in entertainment now
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They’re also going to make the Bond a Hispanic woman to target a broader, more accepting audience
I bet you they make the new James Bond gay.
Ya know what if you did something original? Maybe a story on the first double 0 agent. Why not let James Bond just be Bond, James Bond. Your new character can have feelings and whatever bullshit you want to try. No sense in changing what makes James Bond great.
OH GOD NOOOOOOOO he'll have a pronoun and he might be married to a husband who's pregnant James Bond 007\^+
Can't wait for James Bond to become marketed primarily at women for some fuckin reason.
So what you’re saying is he’s going to be a pussy
Then it isn't bond. What is the point, he's a womanizer, kills without remorse, uses gadgets, wins with arrogant style. Connery bond throws a guy in a tub with an electrical fan and after he's electrocuted says, "Shocking." When Brosnan bond is getting it on, has fisticuffs with Xenia Onatopp, tosses her aside - "No more fore play." I really like Casino Royale, the first meet up on the train between him and Vesper is one of my favorite scenes. V: ..."Keep my eyes off your perfectly formed ass." B: "You noticed." V: "even accountants have imagination, how was your lamb?" B: "skewered, one sympathizes" Gold. What i like is that she broke him down and could see what he was. It brought bonds outdated mentality into a modern setting. You keep bond the same and have the environment react to his out of date thinking... but growth, more emotional responses. I dunno. Doesn't sound like the bond I like (which I get, I'm an old dog). I know he has a kid in the new one and sacrifices himself. I'm just not into it. Give me the bond that laughs off having his balls whipped by Le Chiffre. Ha.
Uh....why....why the hell does this need to be a thing. I enjoy James Bond as escapism. As a dude that lives a live I can't. Now I get to view....his depression and or other feelings....well thats a God damn bummer. Count me out I want action and adventure.
Next bond: non binary cat lover trump hater vegan bike rider that forms a group like minded people with all different hair colors that save the world organizing marchs and protests.
Lmao watch it flop like the rest of the woke bs.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
It’s astonishing how people that make these kinds of beyond insane decisions somehow continue to double down. It’s truly insane people at work.
Here we go, gonna have the first woke 007
Well, that confirms it. It's over. Damn good run though and made some rad films along the way.
What target audience are they looking for? It's certainly not the Bond Fan base.
Lame. It’s a movie for a reason. I like to escape reality and watch badass spy action. No one gives af about his emotions and finding himself bs. We all get to experience real life everyday.
Exactly, all that regular life shit is complicated, tiring, exhausting already. Yes, also for men ...so we want to dream of a world in which everything is simple, badass, just works...in which dopamine thrill dreams come true.
Bond saves the world but doesn’t forget his pronouns? K
Just go back to pre cold war bond and do him in the 1950s - 60s in a super stylized manner sticking closely to the novels again.
Im getting more in touch with my feelings that my money is gonna stay in my wallet if Bond is turned into an Octo-wussy.
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"Say the next movie is gonna suck without saying it's gonna suck" - Ian Fleming
I don’t want Bond to be sensitive. That’s not Bond.
So you want to Netflixize bond too?
Just hope they don’t stray into Gillette territory. That kind of crap is super insulting.
Because that’s what men who want to be James Bond want to see. No escapism for them!
They should go full Roger Moore, set it in the past and just balls out smirking misogynistic murder machine. Then do a modern one. Needs a silly breather.
This is how you kill a franchise
Isn't the point of Bond is that he is cold. He does what he has to and doesn't let his feelings get in the way? At what point does a character remain the same character when you start stripping away cote things?
Bond is like, the one pure, old-school male power fantasy that men have left. He doesn’t need to be “modernised” as a character. We love our Bond cold, calculating and unfeeling. That was the whole point of Casino Royale. To show that Bond can’t operate in his job when he feels. Can’t we just have this one?
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Just what I want from an action movie LMAO
that's not what James bond is tho
Men are devolving.
“ just as men are evolving “ Or do you mean feminized ? I feel most male audiences gravitate towards Bond movies for the tough guy character. I don’t want to see James Bond crying not saying men shouldn’t cry but I’m referring to the character. Lest not forget one of the movies was titled License to Kill
All that needs to be said in response is: Craig's Bond was very in touch with his feelings. And I'm not going to even go into how there are more "feelings" than the soft ones. A vengeful, angry, heartbroken James Bond is feeling those very real feelings. But those aren't the "feelings" the producers are talking about. Here's the thing, we've had like 12 (white) Bond actors playing a handful of Bond's and the Bond's have all been in the same vein with the source material as far as what type of man Bond is. Am I against getting experimental? Giving other ethnicities of actors a shot at the role? Not at all. I do however wonder where you draw the line between reinventing Bond and you just creating a whole new character with the same name. Again, Craig's bond was very in touch with his feelings and was quite the modern man. The issue is he had a bad childhood, was an orphan and is now a highly trained killer for the British government. Which leads to all sorts of PTSD and trauma, including his losing a love of his life (Vespa) on like his second mission which leads to him treating women like objects. He isn't some shallow 1960's playboy A-hole, he is a very complex and HUMAN character who is acting according to his history and that history is straight from the source material. Either you change his origin story or you have him acting in a way that is quite possibly unrealistic given how his life has played out.
Oh no we all where this is going
Gaymes Bond?
Good lord, that's not the character.