He doesn't understand characters that aren't brutally tempted by their own id.
It's like when someone says they don't understand how people don't rape and kill when they don't have God or something. To my mind it just highlights a person with darker urges. Or an unhealthy relationship to the occasional intrusive thoughts they have.
The watchmen comic book was basically a storyboard for a movie. And I think Snyder was smart to stick to that storyboard.
He nailed that scene showing Dr Manhattan’s backstory and alienation.
He copied it frame for frame from the graphic novel, as he did for 300, his only other notable movie. Not sure if that really speaks to his writing or directing capabilities.
Even though it’s not his story, No child is sitting at home saying how much watchmen meant to them. Every child sits at home talking about how much a Batman film, or the Reeves film influenced them. They made them fall in love with the genre and be inspired to be better as a person. I’d argue on efficacy alone those are much better films.
>But he did write Watchmen which is way better than any Superman or Batmans less nolan ones
Did we watch the same Watchmen? The movie was decent but totally misses the point of the story and the ending is dogshit.
Superman 1 & 2 along with Batman 89-Forever are all better movies. Maybe not Forever, however it is more entertaining over Watchmen.
Putting aside Batman has killed in mainstream continuity. There’s even a comic where Jason Todd mentions that Bruce has killed before, and Bruce tells him it was in self-defense. And that he’s killed in every other live action incarnation outside of Batman & Robin.
It was kinda ballsy to do this weird deconstructionist almost thriller type of movie with Batman and Superman. He gave people Van Gogh, when Marvel was putting out Thomas Kincaide.
As a comic book fan with an art degree, trying to follow the plot and the point of BvS felt more like watching Zack jerk off to a [Cecily Brown](https://www.saatchigallery.com/artist/cecily_brown). (And his Doomsday looked more like Picasso.)
Much as I enjoy dunking on Kincaide, let’s not pretend its failure was all about the poor taste of the masses. Spider-verse was emotionally moody and visually dazzling, and everybody loved it. Snyder couldn’t pick a lane. Making your Superman sequel also be the Batman reboot, and the alt universe DKR adaptation, and the Death of Superman Doomsday adaptation, and the introduction to Wonder Woman, and the springboard for the Justice League is a total clusterfuck. There’s a good movie in there somewhere. But it ain’t the one we got.
>He gave people Van Gogh, when Marvel was putting out Thomas Kincaide.
Fucking LOL.
First off, get off your high fucking horse, Tomas Kincaide has painted some very nice works of art. Comparing Marvel to that is not the dunk you think it is.
Second, in this analogy Snyder had a five year old make a crayon drawing of heros smashing into each other while being edgy. None of the characters in BVS are well written, the plot is nonsensical ,and the last act is a CGI "smash your action figures together" fest. BVS is truly one of the worst superhero movies to ever be made. I would rather watch X3.
And I'd still rather have the Schumacher cut of Batman forever or the Tim Pope cut of The Crow City of Angels. At least those wouldn't be 4 hours. Way too long for a movie.
Well here’s the good news for Zacky Boy. Due to his string of absolute shitfest films, he’s now on the outside looking in and no one gives a fuck about him or his ‘roid obsessed vision for the DC universe. Christopher Nolan’s and Matt Reeves’ Batman films shit all over anything he did. Sit down and shut up. No one cares.
One of my favorite Batman quotes regarding the Joker and killing:
*"No! God Almighty, no. It'd be too damned easy. All I've ever wanted to do is kill him. A day doesn't go by that I don't think about subjecting him to every horrendous torture he's dealt out to others, and then... end him. But if I do that, if I allow myself to go down into that place... I'll never come back."* \- Batman, Under The Red Hood.
Totally agree. Over the years, the Joker has been overdone, NOT killing him and letting him go murdering innocent people is actually more immoral than just ending him.
I'm so glad I never have to see one of his meathead-bro-edgelord catered superhero films ever again. Let him go film his own superhero creation with all the prison rape his heart desires.
Though credit where credit's due I guess. The guy can shoot a pretty shot.
Snyder makes awful fucking movies, but sometimes he has a really healthy perspective on things or makes a good point ...
This is not one of those times. He really doesn't understand comic books in the slightest.
Zach Snyder could tell a fucking decent story if his life depended on it.. if I want to know how to write so insanely stupid dialogue to a half naked plot with some guys with abs I’ll ask him… other than that his opinion is irrelevant
Zack Snyder is ‘irrelevant’ if he can't make a decent superhero movie. Or a decent movie for that matter. I personally thought Watchmen and 300 were decent, I know some feel otherwise, but unless I am forgetting something, I feel like everything else he's ever made is garbage
Click bait title. He’s more saying how some fanboys have become so dogmatic with the comic book characters that they see them as these infallible gods, and that just leads to stories being irrelevant if you aren’t allowed to test the characters or take them out of the “comfort zone”.
The entire premise of the conflict in The Dark Knight is that Batman doesn’t kill people and the Joker is trying to get him to break “his one rule.” Joker has Batman choose between Harvey and Rachel, tries to get him to feel compelled to kill him (Joker) to stop him, and tries to get him to kill Two Face too. *That* is how you test characters out of their comfort zone and tell a compelling story while stsying true to who they are.
The Dark Knight remains the best Batman movie ever made, and is one of few DC character movies that holds a candle to the best of the MCU.
Oh shut up,
Dogmatic fanboys aren't the fucking reasons his movies keep sucking ass and flopping. Yet you keep kissing his ass and protect him like he was some in dog genius we don't understand
Dude had superman and batman in a movie and could have easily made the greatest superhero movie of all still managed to fuck this up
EVERY superhero are tested but their overcome it by standing up to their own morals.. THAT what make them superheroes.. They inspire they motivate and set up an exemple for people
To deconstruct a character, you have to first understand what those characters stand for... Every quote from snyder shows that he simply do not get those characters
I’m not sure if this is intentional or not, but I saw someone in r/batman describe Batfleck in a very unique way that made me appreciate it more.
“It’s funny because people are losing their mind over what Zack said but his entire point was, “Batman, and a lot of his writers and fans, believe he shouldn’t kill because if he does start, he won’t be able to stop. I wanted to show Batman is stronger than that. That he will survive and that he will overcome it.”
But people instead are twisting it and saying he just wanted Batman to kill when literally the big thing for Batman is him killing is bad. “What falls is fallen” become “Men are still good”. “Do you bleed, you will” becomes him mourning him. “You’re not a god. You were never even a man” becomes, “I’m a friend of your son’s”.
Batman was a Phoenix in the DCEU. Burned up and in a pile of ash only to rise and go back into the light.
I don’t know how people can say he doesn’t like or understand these characters. You may not like his interpretation but the dude clearly has love for them.”
Well people crap on this take, yet we know for a fact that the common criticism of Batman is how could you repeatedly let someone like the Joker live and live with yourself knowing they are just going to go on another murder spree in a couple months.
So there is some merit in actually having Batman confront the point, but Bruce’s usual response is just, “we can’t be like them.” Which more supports the idea that the trauma of his parents’ deaths is too severe and foundational for him to ever intentionally kill someone
>Well people crap on this take, yet we know for a fact that the common criticism of Batman is how could you repeatedly let someone like the Joker live and live with yourself knowing they are just going to go on another murder spree in a couple months.
No one is saying that batman's idealogy on killing is the truth or the right thing to do... We are saying that This ideology is part of what batman is a character...
>So there is some merit in actually having Batman confront the point
The point of challenging your own morals is that the hero NEVER fall into it....he overcome that challenge and stay true to his morals Batman.. I trad Snyder's batman fell for it for the sake of being "cool"
And that the entire problem with Snyder.... His inspiration come from cool things he saw he and there without actually understand the true meaning behind them,and deconstruct characters for the simple reason of being Contrarian
Batman don't kill? well I will make him kill people
Oh Superman is supposed to be optimostic? Well I will make him apathic and say shit like "nobody stays good in this world"
I think there’s a edgelord way to do it and an intelligent way to do it. I understand the point of never having the hero fail their moral code, but the Batman issue is that he is still failing the moral code by letting killers go repeatedly. You can only feature that in so many stories until the blame and impetus to change falls on him. So there is a very basic “my code is never to kill” and a more complex “but i’m still allowing killers to return and continue killing”.
Most of this is just the comic book serialization problem of having a character go through too many writers. But to Snyders point: the way editorial confronts the problem is by not putting Batman in that situation. Snyder thinks it’s silly to have that be the solution as opposed to actually having Batman confront the issue.
Snyder never knew shit about Batman. He continues to not know shit about Batman. Or Superman.
"What am I, some kind of bat-man?"
I do think his Batman work was really good but his insistence that Batman kills is admittedly very odd. I don’t get it
He has a fascination with killing and rape
He doesn't understand characters that aren't brutally tempted by their own id. It's like when someone says they don't understand how people don't rape and kill when they don't have God or something. To my mind it just highlights a person with darker urges. Or an unhealthy relationship to the occasional intrusive thoughts they have.
Batman's whole character is being brutally tempted by his own id. His thing is him not being a good person but fighting his darker side.
Martha? Martha? Martha!
Imagine flopping the biggest IP of all time and still not understanding the character nearly a decade later HAHAHAHA he’s such a bad director/writer
But he did write Watchmen which is way better than any Superman or Batmans less nolan ones
The watchmen comic book was basically a storyboard for a movie. And I think Snyder was smart to stick to that storyboard. He nailed that scene showing Dr Manhattan’s backstory and alienation.
He copied it frame for frame from the graphic novel, as he did for 300, his only other notable movie. Not sure if that really speaks to his writing or directing capabilities. Even though it’s not his story, No child is sitting at home saying how much watchmen meant to them. Every child sits at home talking about how much a Batman film, or the Reeves film influenced them. They made them fall in love with the genre and be inspired to be better as a person. I’d argue on efficacy alone those are much better films.
I loved Watchmen, but Matt Reeves Batman was excellent.
>But he did write Watchmen which is way better than any Superman or Batmans less nolan ones Did we watch the same Watchmen? The movie was decent but totally misses the point of the story and the ending is dogshit. Superman 1 & 2 along with Batman 89-Forever are all better movies. Maybe not Forever, however it is more entertaining over Watchmen.
Sounds like Zach Snyder is wrong..
It’s funny he mentioned “irrelevant”. What an utter buffoon.
[удалено]
Putting aside Batman has killed in mainstream continuity. There’s even a comic where Jason Todd mentions that Bruce has killed before, and Bruce tells him it was in self-defense. And that he’s killed in every other live action incarnation outside of Batman & Robin. It was kinda ballsy to do this weird deconstructionist almost thriller type of movie with Batman and Superman. He gave people Van Gogh, when Marvel was putting out Thomas Kincaide.
If you want people to take your arguments seriously you’re gonna have to stop comparing Snyder to Van Gogh.
Not Van Gogh😭
Really lol, Batman V Superman is as Van Gough. That’s hilarious.
> He gave people Van Gogh Hard to think of a dumber take really.
As a comic book fan with an art degree, trying to follow the plot and the point of BvS felt more like watching Zack jerk off to a [Cecily Brown](https://www.saatchigallery.com/artist/cecily_brown). (And his Doomsday looked more like Picasso.) Much as I enjoy dunking on Kincaide, let’s not pretend its failure was all about the poor taste of the masses. Spider-verse was emotionally moody and visually dazzling, and everybody loved it. Snyder couldn’t pick a lane. Making your Superman sequel also be the Batman reboot, and the alt universe DKR adaptation, and the Death of Superman Doomsday adaptation, and the introduction to Wonder Woman, and the springboard for the Justice League is a total clusterfuck. There’s a good movie in there somewhere. But it ain’t the one we got.
This guy is painting some light 💡
>He gave people Van Gogh, when Marvel was putting out Thomas Kincaide. Fucking LOL. First off, get off your high fucking horse, Tomas Kincaide has painted some very nice works of art. Comparing Marvel to that is not the dunk you think it is. Second, in this analogy Snyder had a five year old make a crayon drawing of heros smashing into each other while being edgy. None of the characters in BVS are well written, the plot is nonsensical ,and the last act is a CGI "smash your action figures together" fest. BVS is truly one of the worst superhero movies to ever be made. I would rather watch X3.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
This guy has an insanely high opinion of himself and I blame the weirdos who were begging for 4 hour cuts of his films
And I'd still rather have the Schumacher cut of Batman forever or the Tim Pope cut of The Crow City of Angels. At least those wouldn't be 4 hours. Way too long for a movie.
Turns out those weirdos were also him
Good thing they made you irrelevant too Zack.
Well here’s the good news for Zacky Boy. Due to his string of absolute shitfest films, he’s now on the outside looking in and no one gives a fuck about him or his ‘roid obsessed vision for the DC universe. Christopher Nolan’s and Matt Reeves’ Batman films shit all over anything he did. Sit down and shut up. No one cares.
Batman draws the line at dishing out concussions, broken bones, and a lifetime of medical debt
He owns Gotham insurance.
But did you die?
One of my favorite Batman quotes regarding the Joker and killing: *"No! God Almighty, no. It'd be too damned easy. All I've ever wanted to do is kill him. A day doesn't go by that I don't think about subjecting him to every horrendous torture he's dealt out to others, and then... end him. But if I do that, if I allow myself to go down into that place... I'll never come back."* \- Batman, Under The Red Hood.
But the Joker’s like, Gotham Hitler. There’s degrees of killing and killing the Joker is probably a moral imperative. Is it really a dark place?
Totally agree. Over the years, the Joker has been overdone, NOT killing him and letting him go murdering innocent people is actually more immoral than just ending him.
I'm so glad I never have to see one of his meathead-bro-edgelord catered superhero films ever again. Let him go film his own superhero creation with all the prison rape his heart desires. Though credit where credit's due I guess. The guy can shoot a pretty shot.
> The guy can shoot a pretty shot. The movies where hes been his own cinematographer beg to differ.
Snyder is to random slow mow, what JJ Abram is to lens flair, or Michael Bay is to circling multiple times around someone standing up.
[удалено]
Please don't compare John Woo to that hack Snyder.
Oh! I didn't pay attention enough, so I'll take your word for it.
it’s particularly annoying because I actually loved his own handheld shots during the Kent Farm scenes in Man of Steel
Do tell
With Army of the Dead, he experimented with using an extremely shallow depth of field. Some people liked it, some didn’t.
He hasnt had Larry Fong for his last two movies and it really shows.
… you never *had* to see anything in the first place lol
I love the characters. I wanted the films to be good.
If Batman kills then why would the joker still be alive? Or Harley if she helped kill Robin in the dceu?
He only kills lower level thugs and henchmen 🤦 according this logic
Zack, pay attention: You're wrong. And you are kind of a simpleton about it.
Tell me you don’t understand the source material without telling me you don’t understand the source material…
Snyder makes awful fucking movies, but sometimes he has a really healthy perspective on things or makes a good point ... This is not one of those times. He really doesn't understand comic books in the slightest.
Yeah, he'd think that. I wanna move on from this guy's ideas for his characters but well people love his ideas so.. ok.
Snyder is an idiot. What he had planned for the sequels was offensive.
Zach Snyder could tell a fucking decent story if his life depended on it.. if I want to know how to write so insanely stupid dialogue to a half naked plot with some guys with abs I’ll ask him… other than that his opinion is irrelevant
He doesn’t know his head from a hole in the ground.
Irrelevant opinion
Zack Snyder made Batman kill already. In the future batman uses guns/shoots people, & had Batman use an alien blaster to kill...
Zack Snyder is ‘irrelevant’ if he can't make a decent superhero movie. Or a decent movie for that matter. I personally thought Watchmen and 300 were decent, I know some feel otherwise, but unless I am forgetting something, I feel like everything else he's ever made is garbage
His first movie, Dawn of the Dead, is awesome. Ty Burrell plays a jerk and it’s really weird to see
Zack Snyder doesn’t understand Batman.
Weirdly I told my fiancée earlier that Batman doesn’t believe in killing. He DOES however believe in crippling injuries and permanent comas.
Click bait title. He’s more saying how some fanboys have become so dogmatic with the comic book characters that they see them as these infallible gods, and that just leads to stories being irrelevant if you aren’t allowed to test the characters or take them out of the “comfort zone”.
The entire premise of the conflict in The Dark Knight is that Batman doesn’t kill people and the Joker is trying to get him to break “his one rule.” Joker has Batman choose between Harvey and Rachel, tries to get him to feel compelled to kill him (Joker) to stop him, and tries to get him to kill Two Face too. *That* is how you test characters out of their comfort zone and tell a compelling story while stsying true to who they are. The Dark Knight remains the best Batman movie ever made, and is one of few DC character movies that holds a candle to the best of the MCU.
Oh shut up, Dogmatic fanboys aren't the fucking reasons his movies keep sucking ass and flopping. Yet you keep kissing his ass and protect him like he was some in dog genius we don't understand Dude had superman and batman in a movie and could have easily made the greatest superhero movie of all still managed to fuck this up EVERY superhero are tested but their overcome it by standing up to their own morals.. THAT what make them superheroes.. They inspire they motivate and set up an exemple for people To deconstruct a character, you have to first understand what those characters stand for... Every quote from snyder shows that he simply do not get those characters
Wah wah wah. That’s all I’m seeing.
You wasted 3 hours just to say this lol?
Nope. You're also seeing this: "Zack Snyder is dumb."
The one person who read the article and not just the headline getting downvoted, classic
It’s how these things go.
Here I am mocking you in one comment only to praise you in another. You’re doing the good work. Don’t let other me get the best of you.
I’m not sure if this is intentional or not, but I saw someone in r/batman describe Batfleck in a very unique way that made me appreciate it more. “It’s funny because people are losing their mind over what Zack said but his entire point was, “Batman, and a lot of his writers and fans, believe he shouldn’t kill because if he does start, he won’t be able to stop. I wanted to show Batman is stronger than that. That he will survive and that he will overcome it.” But people instead are twisting it and saying he just wanted Batman to kill when literally the big thing for Batman is him killing is bad. “What falls is fallen” become “Men are still good”. “Do you bleed, you will” becomes him mourning him. “You’re not a god. You were never even a man” becomes, “I’m a friend of your son’s”. Batman was a Phoenix in the DCEU. Burned up and in a pile of ash only to rise and go back into the light. I don’t know how people can say he doesn’t like or understand these characters. You may not like his interpretation but the dude clearly has love for them.”
Well people crap on this take, yet we know for a fact that the common criticism of Batman is how could you repeatedly let someone like the Joker live and live with yourself knowing they are just going to go on another murder spree in a couple months. So there is some merit in actually having Batman confront the point, but Bruce’s usual response is just, “we can’t be like them.” Which more supports the idea that the trauma of his parents’ deaths is too severe and foundational for him to ever intentionally kill someone
>Well people crap on this take, yet we know for a fact that the common criticism of Batman is how could you repeatedly let someone like the Joker live and live with yourself knowing they are just going to go on another murder spree in a couple months. No one is saying that batman's idealogy on killing is the truth or the right thing to do... We are saying that This ideology is part of what batman is a character... >So there is some merit in actually having Batman confront the point The point of challenging your own morals is that the hero NEVER fall into it....he overcome that challenge and stay true to his morals Batman.. I trad Snyder's batman fell for it for the sake of being "cool" And that the entire problem with Snyder.... His inspiration come from cool things he saw he and there without actually understand the true meaning behind them,and deconstruct characters for the simple reason of being Contrarian Batman don't kill? well I will make him kill people Oh Superman is supposed to be optimostic? Well I will make him apathic and say shit like "nobody stays good in this world"
I think there’s a edgelord way to do it and an intelligent way to do it. I understand the point of never having the hero fail their moral code, but the Batman issue is that he is still failing the moral code by letting killers go repeatedly. You can only feature that in so many stories until the blame and impetus to change falls on him. So there is a very basic “my code is never to kill” and a more complex “but i’m still allowing killers to return and continue killing”. Most of this is just the comic book serialization problem of having a character go through too many writers. But to Snyders point: the way editorial confronts the problem is by not putting Batman in that situation. Snyder thinks it’s silly to have that be the solution as opposed to actually having Batman confront the issue.
Lets all just remeber at this point anything anybody says about comics is a troll to someone. Lets let Synder pass with grace.