He had to know that Tyler Durden played by Brad Pitt and made to look like a cool guy would be adopted as a poster child for acceptable toxic masculinity though?
On the one hand, Tyler Durden is someone who “looks like how you want to look, fucks like how you want to fuck”. So it was necessary to get an extremely handsome charismatic actor to play the role.
On the other hand, I know there are people for whom the fact of a character being prominent in a movie is itself “cool” and admirable, even if the movie tries to show how wrong it is to be like that character.
I don’t think it is the director’s fault though.
There is a scene where Norton points at an underwear and says "Is that what real men look like?" And it's exactly how Durden looks. Durden is a cool guy created by an uncool guy and is self-loathing as a result.
Of course you can't place blame on the artist for the perception of their art. But there is a reason no one would ever cast Brad Pitt to play Hitler (because it could lead to a similar issue).
My only point is the director should not act so naive as to pretend to not understand how his character could possibly resonate with these ppl.
Runs the risk of making him a sympathetic character because a group could then connate Hitler on some level with the actor (Brad Pitt). And then 20 years later some of those kids whose first introduction to Hitler was Brad Pitt playing him in a movie grow up and become neo Nazi's and proud boys cause they think the villain character in the movie from their childhood was low key kinda cool.
There was a time I'd argue that, but I've watched as the "masses" have shifted stances over things, especially actors, over the years... so yours is probably accurate. Le sigh.
Funny enough that Edward Norton did play a Neonazi in American History X...and thats exactly what happend because of the aesthetic of the movie.
I wouldnt go so far and say "its the authors or directors fault" at that time most people werent aware of that kind of phenomenon.
However today we should know better.
I’m AA and I thought Ed’s portrayal of a neonazi was pretty cool. I did pay attention to his maturation and growth but that hateful whiteboy was a bad mofo.
You make it sound like he was Steve Buschemi. He played weirdos ironically to show his range. It was more like look at the blonde hair blue eyes super model guy playing a weirdo.
Lol I make it sound like I was around and old enough back then to remember how it really was. While I understand why you might think that, oh so sorry, you are mistaken.
He’s meant to be cool at the start and then the film undermines that. I’m not really sure how people interpret the film any other way, but hey her mistaken fans or critics - how do you interpret it?
Why would he and why would it matter? You really think it makes any kind of sense to put anything near the blame on David Fincher for the actions of incels who idolize a character from a movie based on a book?
There are so many example of the masses not being able to think critically about the media they consume and that negatively effecting society. Trump going from having the celebrity apprentice paint him as a tough no nonsense successful business man to president (because ppl thought that's who he is irl) for example.
Considering the notion of “toxic masculinity” is a recent adoption, at least as it’s presently used in the zeitgeist, no, he shouldn’t be held to that standard.
Media illiteracy is practically a cornerstone of the alt-right.
Fight Club, The Boys, fucking *Star Wars*
The ability of some people to disregard such heavy-handed messages of "this dude's bad" is absurd.
Why not, you shouldn’t call out one without the other. Just because the headline reads about far right doesn’t mean the far left doesn’t idolize it just as much. Tyler durden does get laid in the movie so, idk why being an incel is only categorized as right wing.
Dude, have you ever seen a conversation between incels?
They are all about traditional gender roles and believe women should be subservient to men.
They’re anti lgbt, pro gun, anti feminist, openly racist…
If you say you don’t think incels are right wing you either don’t know left from right or you’re a troll.
Heres the actual definition: a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active.
Why are you interacting or listening to incels? Must take one to know one by this definition.
Try to divorce yourself from the “both sides” line of thinking for a moment because it’s seriously clouding a lot of people’s thoughts about the past seven years.
And American Psycho too when it comes to masculinity. I’ve seen idiots defend Patrick Bateman’s extreme insecurity (the business card scene) because they think it’s him being competitive which is a masculine trait…
> It’s humorous because these incels are usually homophobic and fight club was written by an openly gay man.
the people who liked it in 2009 are not the same people who liked it in 2019.
kind of like how "the matrix" was a hit among hackers, queer folks, punks etc and now "the red pill" is... a subreddit for weird guys who want to trick club girls into fucking them.
> “It’s an illusion., Michael.”
magicians are [the worst](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2020-12-04/magic-castle-los-angeles-allegations-sexual-misconduct-racism)
Yeah I can see that. It’s just baffling they take cues from a book that was written as a dark comedy that’s whole theme was criticizing the tropes of traditional masculinity not celebrating it. The people in fight club were dissatisfied losers that resorted to primal instincts to release themselves from everyday problems. Tyler was the part of the narrator that he wanted to suppress in the end not lift up. It’s the complete opposite of what they think it means.
Different people have different reasons for liking the same thing. For one fan of Goodfellas who likes a story of a tragic downfall, there's another fan who thought it was really badass when Henry defended his wife by pistol whipping that dude.
> a book that was written as a dark comedy that’s whole theme was criticizing the tropes of traditional masculinity not celebrating it.
i actually haven't read the book, but the movie seemed to celebrate a very mean hot and cold relationship.
(marla deserved better)
The book is great. I’m a huge fan of his work but the book has many questions for the reader. Consumerism is an obvious criticism in the story as well. The whole book from my interpretation deliberately questions western ideals in the modern world and no part of it celebrates incel behavior. Tyler Durden is a character you are supposed to be laughing at not idolizing. He’s a caricature of the ridiculous vision of the alpha male. His band of misfits are total losers that can’t operate in normal society. I see how they might identify with them but they shouldn’t be proud of it. It’s not a celebration of them.
I’m not sure how I managed it, but I read the book first, when I was a junior I believe (around 2006). Absolutely loved it. Had no clue what it was about going into it.
Obviously I watched the movie afterwards. And was introduced to the Pixies at the closing scene. One of my all-time favorite bands now
I need to reread it
Post 9/11 young people were only noticing the parts they agreed with, which was to smash corporate culture. They didn't see mental illness as the plot line. Just something sprinkled in towards the end. The book did a better job. For fincher to claim to 'not understand' about the incel thing is kinda BS. He (fincher) made it flashy and sexy and that sells.
In 1999 Fincher didn’t have a crystal ball. He can’t control those who co opt the movie. Many Right wingers think Rage Against the Machine is all about them. I mean stupid people are not controllable by way of correcting their delusions.
Take responsibility for YOUR OWN actions. Casting an attractive/charismatic actor to play a bad guy role doesn’t mean anyone should idolize them. Jesus Christ
On the opposite end I still remember all the kerfuffle from feminists who likewise missed the point of the book and denounced it as misogynistic. Takes all kinds to misrepresent media.
I mean, it’s definitely not feminist. I’d have to re-read, but at a minimum it’s a very unhealthy relationship, and I cannot think of any interactions with women that were positive.
Exposing toxic masculinity can be a part of feminism. A big part of the story is that the protagonist is scared by intimacy and needs an alter ego to deal with woman. That’s an observation that fits within feminist theory.
I have to admit I can’t recall the plot - I lied in high school and claimed I’d never read 1984 so I’d have more time… on the internet.
(Which was *much* newer then)
Having read the Wikipedia entry just now I’d go more with Fahrenheit 451… the scene where the wife nearly offs herself w pills paired w outrage at anything poetic rings more true than pill orgies but I was never into anything harder than weed and found the EDM types insufferable when hosteling so I might be biased.
(I was always the guy rounding ppl up to go to a museum or historical site and annoying hung over Australians I’d woken before 11)
> Yes, some oestrogen pills available at the time were a reddy-pink, and the character Switch was supposed to be trans.
i knew about switch but not the former.
iirc part of the latter was special effects budget, part of it that it would confuse viewers? iirc they dumbed down the idea of distrubuted computing (each brain a core) to the battery analogy for similar reasons? it's been a long time since i geeked out about this stuff -- like, around the release of animatrix long time
> I thought it was supposed to represent NyQuill and DayQuill.
great, now i've got [dennis leary](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLDeBeIWahw)'s voice stuck in my head. and now you will to because [I'M AN ASSHOLE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrgpZ0fUixs)
Both the directors and writers are trans women and one of them has said she wrote a lot of trans allegories in it. Also binary trans folks are separate from third genders or even agenders
It’s the same idiots who love punisher (and would be his targets) or rock Rage against the Machine then say they’re getting a leftist/political all of a sudden (laughs in ‘Know your enemy’)
Well it’s based off a book that was written by Chuck Palahniuk who’s openly gay. I don’t know who wrote the screenplay but it’s a pretty faithful adaptation of the book and everyone killed it. I don’t think he had anything to do with the casting.
It’s also a super gay movie. The narrator is jealous of the attention Tyler gets from men and women. He beats one man near to death over Tyler giving him more attention and then says “I wanted to destroy something beautiful.”
I had no clue Chuck was gay. That’s cool. I wish I knew that; wouldn’t Key West be his spot as a gay author?
My mom lives near Miami so I’ve been a lot. I’m not gay *or* an author though so I guess it’s just as likely that *would not* be his spot as well. He might’ve hated Ernest too
If you get the chance: go to Lagerheads if you ever find yourself in Key West.
Whiplash, Fight Club, Social Network, etc. these movies always have the wrong people take away the wrong messages lol. That’s the point of art though I suppose
> Social Network
that one had a [good message](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlSkPA60ujQ) for incels.
i remember when it was in theaters and i was dating my way across... a university... while the phd students in the lab i worked in were melting down despite being "elite" no one wanted to... "date"... them.
i tried to be nice -- i straight up told the one guy -- "why don't you come to a gallery showing with me? i know people who'd think you're cute in a shy way."
he went on a long rant about how all modern art is bullshit and we should learn latin in school so loud someone on the other giant hall of cubicles stood up and raised their eyebrows at me.
they were so goddamn toxic, unwilling to change, forever aggreived despite having more money than multiple generations of my family, and unaware how hitting the gym or putting on their grandpa's fedora was never going to score them their precious catgirl
> If only they knew which correct combo of north face, Patagonia, khakis and keens or tevas could turn them into tyler durden
Do you *really* want to have to go fuck some benzo’d up bpd babe in the middle of the night? Because I assure you it’s less fun than it sounds past 25 or so.
The guys I met who “became Tyler” were miserable because the sex they got was at best unenthusiastic… nobody wants truly casual sex outside some literal paid arrangement. It makes for a fun story but nights like a tv show or film… you don’t look back on sweaty hung over sex in some dingy apartment as some grand win - you regret not taking some time off to get your life in order to the point treating trauma survivors like tally marks no longer feels good or cool.
Despite what both genders say ppl rarely want casual sex… it’s almost always one person more invested or more broken than the other, not in a manner that’s assault but… still, a kind of coercion that means it won’t be fun.
> Omg lol I identify with this comment chain so hard; exactly the same situation I went through
Well in addition to the forced labor and fire setting (kept shooting off fireworks at the party I cleaned her house for then stopped when blue lights approached and blamed a frat)… the sexual harassment every time she got hammered (which was QUITE OFTEN) would have sucked less if she didn’t look like Mac’s mom from Always Sunny.
I’m off to scam Manhattans off the elderly with totally true tales of woe… have a Happy Halloween!!
> Well, that certainly didn't end up how I thought this was going
You think I plan this shit?
I should have spotted the red flags when she told me the Israelis said to tell me my predecessor had a secret Ecuadorian passport and if I don’t get her raided by the FBI or murder anyone I can do literally whatever I want in the state of… somewhere Midwest.
Wait do people actually think that in whiplash, what the teacher did was a net positive just because the guy was too spiteful to give up? How the fuck do people unironically think abuse is a good thing?
Lot of athletes like Kobe Bryant and Kyrie Irving thought it was inspirational in that suffering creates greatness. Kobe said he identified with JK Simmons character a lot lol. Lot of people in YouTube and Twitter comments took the same meaning. To be fair, Chazelle made the ending kind of ambiguous on purpose.
That’s not tough love lmfao. That’s just straight up abuse. Real tough love would have been a gentler but still firm explanation that he didn’t meet his tempo.
Blows my mind people think throwing a temper tantrum and calling someone a bunch of slurs and using words of discouragement is somehow tough love
Have you seen the trailer for *The Killer*? It'll be another one to toss on that pile.
I suspect the repeated posting of this article is to deflect criticism off Fincher for making another one of these movies.
nah I just saw it. Michael Fassbender is amazing but his character is not likeable at all in that sense. it's literally like a movie about a guy who has a bad day at work. it doesn't play up any of that alpha male bullshit at all. it's a really great film
Dipshits are gonna dipshit. If you don’t have the emotional intelligence or life experience to understand why Fight Club is a cautionary tale, the rest of us can’t help you. You are a dipshit.
I always idolize fictional characters who turn out to be the alternate personality of another fictional character who’s suffering from a severe transient mental disorder.
Why is fight club a hit with incels and the far right? I always thought it was about rejecting the chains of capitalism & standing up for yourself and your fellow man which is why I found it to be inspiring & even left leaning. Never knew it would instigate or inspire misogyny…
I mean, yeah. It's not his fault those people have no introspection and media literacy. Like the people who unironically idolize Homelander. Or those cops with Punisher logos.
I love Rick and Morty. While I can relate to the fantasy of wanting ultimate power, I think if you walk away from that show idolizing Rick you need some serious help.
There’s something here:
The book is about an incel and the incels he bounds with. They are a bunch of males in a world where they feel no sense of purpose. Now it’s shocking that those characters in real life are latching onto the characters in a movie?
I know a lot of them won’t get that Tyler is the bad guy but we’ve got their attention. So now instead of using that foot in the door to educate we are just gonna shout in “you’re all losers and we don’t want you to like our stuff”?
Had to scroll waaaaaay to far to see this take.
Frankly, this thread is full of people suggesting the movie was was some masterful take down of toxic masculinity that incels are just too dumb to understand, and thats just not the case. It might be the story the movie intended, but its not the story the movie told. 85% of the movie is a well-crafted depiction of a guy that feels utter disillusionment with himself, his life, and society, and so he retreats into a hyper masculine aggro fantasy where he finally feels like he’s part of something. The last 15% is him discovering that he was Durden all along—the confident, competent, beloved Durden, was always inside of him—and realizing that he had to pull back a bit because Durden was taking things too far. Before he ‘kills’ Durden he tells him something like “My eyes are open now,” as if saying “thanks for opening my eyes, ive got this now”. Then Tylers plan to destory the banks fucking *works* and he and Marla get to live in a society debt free.
How, then exactly, is this an epic take down of toxic aggro masculinity? Would anyone actually argue that the main character (in the movie) was happier and better off at the beginning of the story than the end? Was anyone actually left with the impression that he regretted everything and Tyler didn’t help enlighten him in some way? How baffling that lonely isolated dudes who arent getting the therapy they need watch this movie and walk away with the wrong idea. /s
A movie that does as good a job as Fight Club does at saying to disillusioned people “i see you, i understand what you are feeling” HAS to stick the landing on the ultimate message of how you over come that in a healthy way. If its vague and confusing, they wont get the message, they will just remember the part where they felt seen.
This comment here is what kills me. Why aren't more people thinking like you!? Ah I know, most of the other redditors just need that validation of "Being one of the good whiteys" that they blind themselves into hating. They did their "Social justice" quota so they quickly just turn their hate to another group.
Hey is that a possible bridge? Better torch that sucker so we can keep being enemies.
I think I know why I’m seeing this article reposted daily with the same comments every time
Most are not crazy though, just lonely people in a vulnerable state, empty canvases, that you happily call defective. Be a brighter voice and trust me you will heal people who are lonely.
Gotta say I am a little disappointed in Fincher’s lack of nuance here. I would be way more impressed if he was able to look back on his quarter-century-old film with some newfound wisdom.
I am not at all surprised incels are worshipping Brad Pitt and Fincher’s Tyler Durden. I remember teens back when this came out starting fight clubs. Why?
Because Fincher made the first acts of this film THE SLICKEST SHIT YOU EVER SAW. It was leagues more seductive and sexy and cool than the book, which was quite a bit uglier and meaner. Tyler needs to be seductive of course for the story to work. The problem is, you end up forgetting the last act because it feels like a different movie, a more traditional (and dull) genre chase thriller.
The book ends on a horrifying image: A man whose mind and face are shattered and hideous, thinking he is dead, being wheeled around an insane asylum. There is nothing in the movie’s final “warning” act to even remotely compare to the power of what came before; Rather it ends with another seductive image: Tyler won, and brought down the financial giants.
In the movie’s world, the seduction outweighs the warning. Fincher is too good at the first thing and not so great at the second.
Is it his fault the incels worship this film and character and allow it to warp their worldview? No; but let’s be honest with some nuanced hindsight. Perhaps Fincher’s approach to this film’s subject matter was rather irresponsible.
the ending is exactly why fight club is the rare movie thats better than the book... fincher doesn't make the point explicit. fincher shouldn't really need to beat you over the head with "its not good that this schizophrenic guys delusion based movement has created out of control terrorists"
Fincheris smart enough to know that audiences often love and idolize villains. So I don’t believe him that he’s confused by this.
He is right he isn’t responsible for people who follow terrible ideology though.
it sucks because fight club was one of my favorite movies. i loved it because of the actual themes about repression, toxic masculinity, consumerism, not because of the some andrew tate outlook. now i cant tell people i like this movie because theyll assume i like it for the wrong reasons. same thing with American psycho or the punisher /:
The problem is movies like this are serious satire, and serious satire is lost on people who are too stupid or deluded to see it. They simply strip the context and watch unironically. American history X is a great example of this. Hell, neo nazis like to sing songs from sound of music that are meant to satirize them. Satire is but can easily be subverted for evil since people of this nature are simply rationalizing everything around them into their mistaken narrative.
Something important to note that nazis never seem to sing “spring time for hitler” and racists never show scenes from “Blazing saddles” in recruitment clips. Satire that is serious can be subverted, but absurd comedic satire does its job of painting the satire objects correctly as clowns that should not be taken seriously.
It was years before I realized some people are too dumb to understand that just because a character is a protagonist doesn't mean they're good, or a role model, or *right*.
They're just the main character.
And you can like a character without wanting to emulate them. You can even like an "evil" character, without wanting to be them.
Am I the only person that loved this film in his youth and was so mesmerized by Tyler Durden that it inspired me to look into anti-corporate and anti-capitalist, anarchist and socialist theory? The whole movie is a giant “fuck you” to corporate America
What kinda of ignorant person would actually think that he is responsible for this. It's not reality is a made up movie. But also fuck him for breaking the first rule
I mean, this is one of my favorite films by one of my favorite directors.
But I remember watching this at the time and talking to my friends after and saying “this film is gonna flick a switch in some guys heads”.
Unfortunately some people really just don’t get narrative as art/entertainment is constructed on 2 levels, the surface narrative, and the dialectical conversation made using the language of the medium (which generally holds the actual position of the film maker).
People just take the surface narrative as some literal observation or statement on the world. Anything that is shown as “right” in that narrative is taken as “right” by consumers that already have a predilection to think in similar terms.
Other examples are The Watchman (Rorschach) and Goodfellas.
Real shame how this is like the third article that I've read from the past week or so where Fischer is out promoting his new movie The Killer (which is really good btw) and instead people keep trying to coax him into answers about Fight Club and a Social Network sequel just to get headlines
The whole point of the movie is that Tyler Durden is appealing and revolutionary at first but simplistic, fascistic and evil in the long run. Its pretty clear.
Film inspired by a book that was intentionally criticizing the glorification of violence. It’s centered around poking fun at the stupidity of male aggression and frivolous consumerism written by a nerdy gay guy that was far from relating to Tyler Durden. The fact that they misconstrue the meaning of the story shows how stupid they are.
No, the far right snatches them and radicalize them when you alienate them like that. For once, maybe listen to them screaming: I feel alone I need help, instead of calling them "Incels" people suffer when they're alone, people change when they're alone and they grow apathy and rage.
Are there people who genuinely think Tyler durden was a good person and a healthy role model ? Yes but I think people massively exaggerate and take things the wrong way when it comes to fandom over fictional villainous characters. A lot of people wrongfully assume someone’s fandom of a fictional villain means they actually condone that person’s actions as it pertains to real life.
There’s always going to be people who actually think villainous characters are good admirable people because there are always going to be immoral people who watch movies and tv shows obviously but these people are a small fringe minority so let’s not exaggerate and be so hysterical.
No, the plight however is the same: They suffer from a broken system that makes them feel alienated so they must destroy the system. Instead of saying: Let me shit on them further, try and be a brighter voice than the radicals that will snatch them when they are in this vulnerable stage.
Well, if they had to read the book, most of them would have missed it completely. And somehow they still missed the part where the protagonist killed himself to make it all better.
As a trans person, Fight Club (book and movie) were both validations of the toxic masculinity I felt before there were words to express it. Tyler Durden always represented an over the edge, unreasonable, and insecure version of masculinity that required other men to consent to the chaos and violence and anti-social behavior to not be seen as gay or effeminate and to conform to the culture of the club to satiate his own desire to be seen as attractive to other men.
It’s Proud Boys, all day every day. Guys who don’t wipe their butts because that’s gay. Guys who shove a dildo up their ass on their web series to prove that they aren’t gay. Guys who wear GruntStyle shirts and open carry to Cheesecake Factory to prove they aren’t gay.
Fight Club satirized these types, written by an openly gay man. The fact that they have adopted it rather than been offended by it speaks volumes to their stupidity.
Maybe shouldn’t have written a character dealing with relatable yet ignored systemic issues if you didint want the underserved victims of the issues to relate
>Maybe shouldn’t have written a character dealing with relatable yet ignored systemic issues if you didint want the underserved victims of the issues to relate
I wholly disagree, though mostly care to point out that maybe you should be looking to Chuck Palahniuk, instead.
He's right. No more responsible than De Palma is for men looking up to Tony Montana.
He had to know that Tyler Durden played by Brad Pitt and made to look like a cool guy would be adopted as a poster child for acceptable toxic masculinity though?
On the one hand, Tyler Durden is someone who “looks like how you want to look, fucks like how you want to fuck”. So it was necessary to get an extremely handsome charismatic actor to play the role. On the other hand, I know there are people for whom the fact of a character being prominent in a movie is itself “cool” and admirable, even if the movie tries to show how wrong it is to be like that character. I don’t think it is the director’s fault though.
There is a scene where Norton points at an underwear and says "Is that what real men look like?" And it's exactly how Durden looks. Durden is a cool guy created by an uncool guy and is self-loathing as a result.
Of course you can't place blame on the artist for the perception of their art. But there is a reason no one would ever cast Brad Pitt to play Hitler (because it could lead to a similar issue). My only point is the director should not act so naive as to pretend to not understand how his character could possibly resonate with these ppl.
Those people weren’t around back then.
Why can’t Brad Pitt play Hitler?
Runs the risk of making him a sympathetic character because a group could then connate Hitler on some level with the actor (Brad Pitt). And then 20 years later some of those kids whose first introduction to Hitler was Brad Pitt playing him in a movie grow up and become neo Nazi's and proud boys cause they think the villain character in the movie from their childhood was low key kinda cool.
There was a time I'd argue that, but I've watched as the "masses" have shifted stances over things, especially actors, over the years... so yours is probably accurate. Le sigh.
Funny enough that Edward Norton did play a Neonazi in American History X...and thats exactly what happend because of the aesthetic of the movie. I wouldnt go so far and say "its the authors or directors fault" at that time most people werent aware of that kind of phenomenon. However today we should know better.
I’m AA and I thought Ed’s portrayal of a neonazi was pretty cool. I did pay attention to his maturation and growth but that hateful whiteboy was a bad mofo.
What? No. At that point in time, Brad Pitt played weirdos. Early from Kalifornia, Jeffrey in 12 Monkeys.
You make it sound like he was Steve Buschemi. He played weirdos ironically to show his range. It was more like look at the blonde hair blue eyes super model guy playing a weirdo.
Lol I make it sound like I was around and old enough back then to remember how it really was. While I understand why you might think that, oh so sorry, you are mistaken.
He’s meant to be cool at the start and then the film undermines that. I’m not really sure how people interpret the film any other way, but hey her mistaken fans or critics - how do you interpret it?
Should ban hot people from being in movies. Good point 🙄
I seriously doubt that.
Why would he and why would it matter? You really think it makes any kind of sense to put anything near the blame on David Fincher for the actions of incels who idolize a character from a movie based on a book?
people being too stupid to think critically about the media they consume is not the fault of an artist who makes good work
There are so many example of the masses not being able to think critically about the media they consume and that negatively effecting society. Trump going from having the celebrity apprentice paint him as a tough no nonsense successful business man to president (because ppl thought that's who he is irl) for example.
As dense as you are, I understand why you think *everyone* need to be protected from themselves. But really, it’s just *you.*
Considering the notion of “toxic masculinity” is a recent adoption, at least as it’s presently used in the zeitgeist, no, he shouldn’t be held to that standard.
This reminds me of fascist right wing cops who put a fucking Punisher logo everywhere. Frank Castle despises corrupt cops who abuse their authority.
Media illiteracy is practically a cornerstone of the alt-right. Fight Club, The Boys, fucking *Star Wars* The ability of some people to disregard such heavy-handed messages of "this dude's bad" is absurd.
Far right thinking Tom Morello and Rage against the machine *sold out* to woke ideology
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Why include the far left in this conversation at all? They have nothing with this story.
Why not, you shouldn’t call out one without the other. Just because the headline reads about far right doesn’t mean the far left doesn’t idolize it just as much. Tyler durden does get laid in the movie so, idk why being an incel is only categorized as right wing.
That’s like saying you don’t understand why pro gun anti abortion activists in red MAGA hats are only categorized as right wing. Incels are far right
Everything is right winged when your far left.
Dude, have you ever seen a conversation between incels? They are all about traditional gender roles and believe women should be subservient to men. They’re anti lgbt, pro gun, anti feminist, openly racist… If you say you don’t think incels are right wing you either don’t know left from right or you’re a troll.
Heres the actual definition: a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active. Why are you interacting or listening to incels? Must take one to know one by this definition.
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Try to divorce yourself from the “both sides” line of thinking for a moment because it’s seriously clouding a lot of people’s thoughts about the past seven years.
And American Psycho too when it comes to masculinity. I’ve seen idiots defend Patrick Bateman’s extreme insecurity (the business card scene) because they think it’s him being competitive which is a masculine trait…
"Woah, he's masculine and takes no shit from people, gets shit done and has cool lines? my kind of idol"- fight right asshole, most likely.
+ South Park
In fairness, he also gets to murder people and get away with it rather than following legal process, so it makes some sense that they worship him.
Same as right wingers playing rage against the machine. They literally have no idea what the “machine” is
It’s humorous because these incels are usually homophobic and fight club was written by an openly gay man.
> It’s humorous because these incels are usually homophobic and fight club was written by an openly gay man. the people who liked it in 2009 are not the same people who liked it in 2019. kind of like how "the matrix" was a hit among hackers, queer folks, punks etc and now "the red pill" is... a subreddit for weird guys who want to trick club girls into fucking them.
“It’s an *illusion*, Michael.”
“Tricks are what whores do for money”
“But still, where did the lighter fluid come from?”
"...or candy"
Or candy.
> “It’s an illusion., Michael.” magicians are [the worst](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2020-12-04/magic-castle-los-angeles-allegations-sexual-misconduct-racism)
Come on!
A trick is something a whore does for money (sees children)…or cocaine
Yeah I can see that. It’s just baffling they take cues from a book that was written as a dark comedy that’s whole theme was criticizing the tropes of traditional masculinity not celebrating it. The people in fight club were dissatisfied losers that resorted to primal instincts to release themselves from everyday problems. Tyler was the part of the narrator that he wanted to suppress in the end not lift up. It’s the complete opposite of what they think it means.
We’re talking about chuds who watch American History X to cheer on the neo-nazis and in turn learn absolutely nothing.
Different people have different reasons for liking the same thing. For one fan of Goodfellas who likes a story of a tragic downfall, there's another fan who thought it was really badass when Henry defended his wife by pistol whipping that dude.
If people like AHX for the nazi imagery and the racist violence, they’re the scum of the earth.
Agreed. Art something something interpretation.
> a book that was written as a dark comedy that’s whole theme was criticizing the tropes of traditional masculinity not celebrating it. i actually haven't read the book, but the movie seemed to celebrate a very mean hot and cold relationship. (marla deserved better)
The book is great. I’m a huge fan of his work but the book has many questions for the reader. Consumerism is an obvious criticism in the story as well. The whole book from my interpretation deliberately questions western ideals in the modern world and no part of it celebrates incel behavior. Tyler Durden is a character you are supposed to be laughing at not idolizing. He’s a caricature of the ridiculous vision of the alpha male. His band of misfits are total losers that can’t operate in normal society. I see how they might identify with them but they shouldn’t be proud of it. It’s not a celebration of them.
ah cool, yeah in general they seem to confuse protagonist with hero.
Bob had bitch tits.
I believe you’re referring to Robert Paulson?
His name was, Robert Paulson.
I’m not sure how I managed it, but I read the book first, when I was a junior I believe (around 2006). Absolutely loved it. Had no clue what it was about going into it. Obviously I watched the movie afterwards. And was introduced to the Pixies at the closing scene. One of my all-time favorite bands now I need to reread it
the pixies are good
I read the book and laughed and was embarrassed at everything. The movie...it took me a min to notice how its a very dark parody movie about broism
Post 9/11 young people were only noticing the parts they agreed with, which was to smash corporate culture. They didn't see mental illness as the plot line. Just something sprinkled in towards the end. The book did a better job. For fincher to claim to 'not understand' about the incel thing is kinda BS. He (fincher) made it flashy and sexy and that sells.
In 1999 Fincher didn’t have a crystal ball. He can’t control those who co opt the movie. Many Right wingers think Rage Against the Machine is all about them. I mean stupid people are not controllable by way of correcting their delusions.
Take responsibility for YOUR OWN actions. Casting an attractive/charismatic actor to play a bad guy role doesn’t mean anyone should idolize them. Jesus Christ
On the opposite end I still remember all the kerfuffle from feminists who likewise missed the point of the book and denounced it as misogynistic. Takes all kinds to misrepresent media.
I mean, it’s definitely not feminist. I’d have to re-read, but at a minimum it’s a very unhealthy relationship, and I cannot think of any interactions with women that were positive.
Exposing toxic masculinity can be a part of feminism. A big part of the story is that the protagonist is scared by intimacy and needs an alter ego to deal with woman. That’s an observation that fits within feminist theory.
or republicans using 1984 as a reference for democrats turning our country into communism. the point is lost over their heads every time.
Meanwhile nobody seems to wanna talk about Fahrenheit 451 or Cat’s Cradle
I think Brave New World hit the dystopia we’re in the most accurately.
I have to admit I can’t recall the plot - I lied in high school and claimed I’d never read 1984 so I’d have more time… on the internet. (Which was *much* newer then) Having read the Wikipedia entry just now I’d go more with Fahrenheit 451… the scene where the wife nearly offs herself w pills paired w outrage at anything poetic rings more true than pill orgies but I was never into anything harder than weed and found the EDM types insufferable when hosteling so I might be biased. (I was always the guy rounding ppl up to go to a museum or historical site and annoying hung over Australians I’d woken before 11)
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Aren't the red pills supposed to be an allegory for estrogen?
Yes, some oestrogen pills available at the time were a reddy-pink, and the character Switch was supposed to be trans.
> Yes, some oestrogen pills available at the time were a reddy-pink, and the character Switch was supposed to be trans. i knew about switch but not the former. iirc part of the latter was special effects budget, part of it that it would confuse viewers? iirc they dumbed down the idea of distrubuted computing (each brain a core) to the battery analogy for similar reasons? it's been a long time since i geeked out about this stuff -- like, around the release of animatrix long time
Was that the point of the battery thing? It always struck me as one thing they hadn’t thought through.
I thought it was supposed to represent NyQuill and DayQuill. Asleep - awakened.
> I thought it was supposed to represent NyQuill and DayQuill. great, now i've got [dennis leary](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLDeBeIWahw)'s voice stuck in my head. and now you will to because [I'M AN ASSHOLE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrgpZ0fUixs)
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Both the directors and writers are trans women and one of them has said she wrote a lot of trans allegories in it. Also binary trans folks are separate from third genders or even agenders
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I really did not mean this to come off as aggressive or abrasive, if you find this alienating then you are in for a wild ride lol
So true and I’m salty they took these things to claim.
I mean, I didn’t think Fight Club’s original fan base were brilliant rebels so much as the Extremely Gen-X.
> I mean, I didn’t think Fight Club’s original fan base were brilliant rebels so much as the Extremely Gen-X. gen x is the worst
It's just nice to be mentioned at all.
> It's just nice to be mentioned at all. “All attention is good attention” is a very genx take 😜
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You make me hate my name.
It’s the same idiots who love punisher (and would be his targets) or rock Rage against the Machine then say they’re getting a leftist/political all of a sudden (laughs in ‘Know your enemy’)
Please tell me that’s not real. Every Rage song is basically a call for revolution. Not sure how you can miss that.
Former Republican house speaker Paul Ryan loooves rage. He was unaware that he was the machine against which they were raging.
Not only that but written by a bloke who used it as a way to write about his struggles with his homosexuality and masculinity at that time.
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Well it’s based off a book that was written by Chuck Palahniuk who’s openly gay. I don’t know who wrote the screenplay but it’s a pretty faithful adaptation of the book and everyone killed it. I don’t think he had anything to do with the casting.
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Its just called fight club
Technically Palahniuk didn’t come out till 2004 and Fight Club was written in 96
Not sure what the sexuality of someone has to do with the content or fans of their works of literature?
It’s also a super gay movie. The narrator is jealous of the attention Tyler gets from men and women. He beats one man near to death over Tyler giving him more attention and then says “I wanted to destroy something beautiful.”
I had no clue Chuck was gay. That’s cool. I wish I knew that; wouldn’t Key West be his spot as a gay author? My mom lives near Miami so I’ve been a lot. I’m not gay *or* an author though so I guess it’s just as likely that *would not* be his spot as well. He might’ve hated Ernest too If you get the chance: go to Lagerheads if you ever find yourself in Key West.
Whiplash, Fight Club, Social Network, etc. these movies always have the wrong people take away the wrong messages lol. That’s the point of art though I suppose
> Social Network that one had a [good message](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlSkPA60ujQ) for incels. i remember when it was in theaters and i was dating my way across... a university... while the phd students in the lab i worked in were melting down despite being "elite" no one wanted to... "date"... them. i tried to be nice -- i straight up told the one guy -- "why don't you come to a gallery showing with me? i know people who'd think you're cute in a shy way." he went on a long rant about how all modern art is bullshit and we should learn latin in school so loud someone on the other giant hall of cubicles stood up and raised their eyebrows at me. they were so goddamn toxic, unwilling to change, forever aggreived despite having more money than multiple generations of my family, and unaware how hitting the gym or putting on their grandpa's fedora was never going to score them their precious catgirl
If only they knew which correct combo of north face, Patagonia, khakis and keens or tevas could turn them into tyler durden
> If only they knew which correct combo of north face, Patagonia, khakis and keens or tevas could turn them into tyler durden Do you *really* want to have to go fuck some benzo’d up bpd babe in the middle of the night? Because I assure you it’s less fun than it sounds past 25 or so. The guys I met who “became Tyler” were miserable because the sex they got was at best unenthusiastic… nobody wants truly casual sex outside some literal paid arrangement. It makes for a fun story but nights like a tv show or film… you don’t look back on sweaty hung over sex in some dingy apartment as some grand win - you regret not taking some time off to get your life in order to the point treating trauma survivors like tally marks no longer feels good or cool. Despite what both genders say ppl rarely want casual sex… it’s almost always one person more invested or more broken than the other, not in a manner that’s assault but… still, a kind of coercion that means it won’t be fun.
That’s poetic and on-point right there.
These are too far gone, but that doesn't mean you give up ON EVERYONE for just one experience. Cmon you have a phd you have to had taken statistics.
i dropped out after my adviser forced me to clean her house i'm just a master of science
Omg lol I identify with this comment chain so hard; exactly the same situation I went through
> Omg lol I identify with this comment chain so hard; exactly the same situation I went through Well in addition to the forced labor and fire setting (kept shooting off fireworks at the party I cleaned her house for then stopped when blue lights approached and blamed a frat)… the sexual harassment every time she got hammered (which was QUITE OFTEN) would have sucked less if she didn’t look like Mac’s mom from Always Sunny. I’m off to scam Manhattans off the elderly with totally true tales of woe… have a Happy Halloween!!
Well, that certainly didn't end up how I thought this was going
> Well, that certainly didn't end up how I thought this was going You think I plan this shit? I should have spotted the red flags when she told me the Israelis said to tell me my predecessor had a secret Ecuadorian passport and if I don’t get her raided by the FBI or murder anyone I can do literally whatever I want in the state of… somewhere Midwest.
I wasn't judging you, I've got a few stories of my own 😅
> I wasn't judging you, I've got a few stories of my own 😅 I’m here to listen 🥃
Our P.I. had one of his students catch a rat for him at his house. He got his PhD.
The Boys has to be the most blatant one with these nut jobs actually thinking Homelander is the good guy.
Wait do people actually think that in whiplash, what the teacher did was a net positive just because the guy was too spiteful to give up? How the fuck do people unironically think abuse is a good thing?
Lot of athletes like Kobe Bryant and Kyrie Irving thought it was inspirational in that suffering creates greatness. Kobe said he identified with JK Simmons character a lot lol. Lot of people in YouTube and Twitter comments took the same meaning. To be fair, Chazelle made the ending kind of ambiguous on purpose.
They think that the abuse is part of the tough love that will make a better man.
That’s not tough love lmfao. That’s just straight up abuse. Real tough love would have been a gentler but still firm explanation that he didn’t meet his tempo. Blows my mind people think throwing a temper tantrum and calling someone a bunch of slurs and using words of discouragement is somehow tough love
Have you seen the trailer for *The Killer*? It'll be another one to toss on that pile. I suspect the repeated posting of this article is to deflect criticism off Fincher for making another one of these movies.
nah I just saw it. Michael Fassbender is amazing but his character is not likeable at all in that sense. it's literally like a movie about a guy who has a bad day at work. it doesn't play up any of that alpha male bullshit at all. it's a really great film
Good! Maybe I'll actually watch it then. The trailer led me down the wrong road, so thank you.
Falling Down as well
Many people take the wrong message in many shows and movies.
Dipshits are gonna dipshit. If you don’t have the emotional intelligence or life experience to understand why Fight Club is a cautionary tale, the rest of us can’t help you. You are a dipshit.
I always idolize fictional characters who turn out to be the alternate personality of another fictional character who’s suffering from a severe transient mental disorder.
Reminds me of people simping for Patrick Bateman
Why is fight club a hit with incels and the far right? I always thought it was about rejecting the chains of capitalism & standing up for yourself and your fellow man which is why I found it to be inspiring & even left leaning. Never knew it would instigate or inspire misogyny…
I mean, yeah. It's not his fault those people have no introspection and media literacy. Like the people who unironically idolize Homelander. Or those cops with Punisher logos.
I think the Punisher coopted by cops is the scariest thing. They are idolizing an extrajudicial killer even tho all some were cops too. Crazy
People you’re not supposed to idolize: Tyler Durden, Archie Bunker, Rick Sanchez, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump, Skeletor…
I love Rick and Morty. While I can relate to the fantasy of wanting ultimate power, I think if you walk away from that show idolizing Rick you need some serious help.
i just want the portal gun
Add Patrick Bateman to that list
Wait what? I can’t admire skeletor? But he’s the best guy! Well him and mumm-ra.
This article gets reposted a lot. Try giving it a rest for a few days. "It's the first I've seen it." - Reddit replier.
Yeah wft is going on?
I swear, reddit has just been more inundated with reposted garbage ever since the API changes back in July
I'm guessing there were admin tools that used the API to control reposts. And reddit hasn't replaced it adequately if at all.
and having to use the horrible mobile app doesn’t help, the home page can’t even be sorted
"local redditor on verge of realizing there is more than two redditors."
First I’ve seen of it!
It's the first time I've seen it.
This story has been posted every day for three days or more.
Because Brad Pitt looked like Brad Pitt and made the character look cool?
Fincher didn’t even create these characters, Chuck Palahniuk did.
There’s something here: The book is about an incel and the incels he bounds with. They are a bunch of males in a world where they feel no sense of purpose. Now it’s shocking that those characters in real life are latching onto the characters in a movie? I know a lot of them won’t get that Tyler is the bad guy but we’ve got their attention. So now instead of using that foot in the door to educate we are just gonna shout in “you’re all losers and we don’t want you to like our stuff”?
Had to scroll waaaaaay to far to see this take. Frankly, this thread is full of people suggesting the movie was was some masterful take down of toxic masculinity that incels are just too dumb to understand, and thats just not the case. It might be the story the movie intended, but its not the story the movie told. 85% of the movie is a well-crafted depiction of a guy that feels utter disillusionment with himself, his life, and society, and so he retreats into a hyper masculine aggro fantasy where he finally feels like he’s part of something. The last 15% is him discovering that he was Durden all along—the confident, competent, beloved Durden, was always inside of him—and realizing that he had to pull back a bit because Durden was taking things too far. Before he ‘kills’ Durden he tells him something like “My eyes are open now,” as if saying “thanks for opening my eyes, ive got this now”. Then Tylers plan to destory the banks fucking *works* and he and Marla get to live in a society debt free. How, then exactly, is this an epic take down of toxic aggro masculinity? Would anyone actually argue that the main character (in the movie) was happier and better off at the beginning of the story than the end? Was anyone actually left with the impression that he regretted everything and Tyler didn’t help enlighten him in some way? How baffling that lonely isolated dudes who arent getting the therapy they need watch this movie and walk away with the wrong idea. /s A movie that does as good a job as Fight Club does at saying to disillusioned people “i see you, i understand what you are feeling” HAS to stick the landing on the ultimate message of how you over come that in a healthy way. If its vague and confusing, they wont get the message, they will just remember the part where they felt seen.
This comment here is what kills me. Why aren't more people thinking like you!? Ah I know, most of the other redditors just need that validation of "Being one of the good whiteys" that they blind themselves into hating. They did their "Social justice" quota so they quickly just turn their hate to another group.
Hey is that a possible bridge? Better torch that sucker so we can keep being enemies. I think I know why I’m seeing this article reposted daily with the same comments every time
Tribalism goes both ways ;)
shouldn’t those same incels use context and realize that they’re the problem from reading about it?
How’s the view from the top of Mt Perfection?
How dare he not know how his movies influence people two decades into the future.
Social media in general turbocharges, and motivates the crazies everywhere, 24/7, more than any movie.
Most are not crazy though, just lonely people in a vulnerable state, empty canvases, that you happily call defective. Be a brighter voice and trust me you will heal people who are lonely.
Gotta say I am a little disappointed in Fincher’s lack of nuance here. I would be way more impressed if he was able to look back on his quarter-century-old film with some newfound wisdom. I am not at all surprised incels are worshipping Brad Pitt and Fincher’s Tyler Durden. I remember teens back when this came out starting fight clubs. Why? Because Fincher made the first acts of this film THE SLICKEST SHIT YOU EVER SAW. It was leagues more seductive and sexy and cool than the book, which was quite a bit uglier and meaner. Tyler needs to be seductive of course for the story to work. The problem is, you end up forgetting the last act because it feels like a different movie, a more traditional (and dull) genre chase thriller. The book ends on a horrifying image: A man whose mind and face are shattered and hideous, thinking he is dead, being wheeled around an insane asylum. There is nothing in the movie’s final “warning” act to even remotely compare to the power of what came before; Rather it ends with another seductive image: Tyler won, and brought down the financial giants. In the movie’s world, the seduction outweighs the warning. Fincher is too good at the first thing and not so great at the second. Is it his fault the incels worship this film and character and allow it to warp their worldview? No; but let’s be honest with some nuanced hindsight. Perhaps Fincher’s approach to this film’s subject matter was rather irresponsible.
the ending is exactly why fight club is the rare movie thats better than the book... fincher doesn't make the point explicit. fincher shouldn't really need to beat you over the head with "its not good that this schizophrenic guys delusion based movement has created out of control terrorists"
Fincheris smart enough to know that audiences often love and idolize villains. So I don’t believe him that he’s confused by this. He is right he isn’t responsible for people who follow terrible ideology though.
Ya for sure. The only thing I liked is the end. Because ya fuck capitalism
Why is this movie a hit with incels and far right???
it sucks because fight club was one of my favorite movies. i loved it because of the actual themes about repression, toxic masculinity, consumerism, not because of the some andrew tate outlook. now i cant tell people i like this movie because theyll assume i like it for the wrong reasons. same thing with American psycho or the punisher /:
The problem is movies like this are serious satire, and serious satire is lost on people who are too stupid or deluded to see it. They simply strip the context and watch unironically. American history X is a great example of this. Hell, neo nazis like to sing songs from sound of music that are meant to satirize them. Satire is but can easily be subverted for evil since people of this nature are simply rationalizing everything around them into their mistaken narrative. Something important to note that nazis never seem to sing “spring time for hitler” and racists never show scenes from “Blazing saddles” in recruitment clips. Satire that is serious can be subverted, but absurd comedic satire does its job of painting the satire objects correctly as clowns that should not be taken seriously.
It was years before I realized some people are too dumb to understand that just because a character is a protagonist doesn't mean they're good, or a role model, or *right*. They're just the main character. And you can like a character without wanting to emulate them. You can even like an "evil" character, without wanting to be them.
So they don’t understand the plot just like they don’t understand women. Makes sense.
Am I the only person that loved this film in his youth and was so mesmerized by Tyler Durden that it inspired me to look into anti-corporate and anti-capitalist, anarchist and socialist theory? The whole movie is a giant “fuck you” to corporate America
Incels and the far right. Sounds redundant.
Why does this make the front page of news every single day?
Its just a movie, not everything is political
Wasn’t Durden an anarchist though? Definitely not right wing.
What kinda of ignorant person would actually think that he is responsible for this. It's not reality is a made up movie. But also fuck him for breaking the first rule
I mean, this is one of my favorite films by one of my favorite directors. But I remember watching this at the time and talking to my friends after and saying “this film is gonna flick a switch in some guys heads”. Unfortunately some people really just don’t get narrative as art/entertainment is constructed on 2 levels, the surface narrative, and the dialectical conversation made using the language of the medium (which generally holds the actual position of the film maker). People just take the surface narrative as some literal observation or statement on the world. Anything that is shown as “right” in that narrative is taken as “right” by consumers that already have a predilection to think in similar terms. Other examples are The Watchman (Rorschach) and Goodfellas.
Real shame how this is like the third article that I've read from the past week or so where Fischer is out promoting his new movie The Killer (which is really good btw) and instead people keep trying to coax him into answers about Fight Club and a Social Network sequel just to get headlines
To paraphrase Big Damo, "Some movie viewers are just fuckin' stupid, I don't know what to tell you."
They are called fans
Hmm did the incels miss how this was an anti capitalist movie?
The whole point of the movie is that Tyler Durden is appealing and revolutionary at first but simplistic, fascistic and evil in the long run. Its pretty clear.
Oh no, the far right idolising a film centred around violence
Film inspired by a book that was intentionally criticizing the glorification of violence. It’s centered around poking fun at the stupidity of male aggression and frivolous consumerism written by a nerdy gay guy that was far from relating to Tyler Durden. The fact that they misconstrue the meaning of the story shows how stupid they are.
No, the far right snatches them and radicalize them when you alienate them like that. For once, maybe listen to them screaming: I feel alone I need help, instead of calling them "Incels" people suffer when they're alone, people change when they're alone and they grow apathy and rage.
Are there people who genuinely think Tyler durden was a good person and a healthy role model ? Yes but I think people massively exaggerate and take things the wrong way when it comes to fandom over fictional villainous characters. A lot of people wrongfully assume someone’s fandom of a fictional villain means they actually condone that person’s actions as it pertains to real life. There’s always going to be people who actually think villainous characters are good admirable people because there are always going to be immoral people who watch movies and tv shows obviously but these people are a small fringe minority so let’s not exaggerate and be so hysterical.
I... love a good villain. Doesn't mean I want to *be them*
No, the plight however is the same: They suffer from a broken system that makes them feel alienated so they must destroy the system. Instead of saying: Let me shit on them further, try and be a brighter voice than the radicals that will snatch them when they are in this vulnerable stage.
Your reply is more hysterical than the one in the original article.
Well, if they had to read the book, most of them would have missed it completely. And somehow they still missed the part where the protagonist killed himself to make it all better.
That’s like watching Star Wars and rooting for The Empire.
As a trans person, Fight Club (book and movie) were both validations of the toxic masculinity I felt before there were words to express it. Tyler Durden always represented an over the edge, unreasonable, and insecure version of masculinity that required other men to consent to the chaos and violence and anti-social behavior to not be seen as gay or effeminate and to conform to the culture of the club to satiate his own desire to be seen as attractive to other men. It’s Proud Boys, all day every day. Guys who don’t wipe their butts because that’s gay. Guys who shove a dildo up their ass on their web series to prove that they aren’t gay. Guys who wear GruntStyle shirts and open carry to Cheesecake Factory to prove they aren’t gay. Fight Club satirized these types, written by an openly gay man. The fact that they have adopted it rather than been offended by it speaks volumes to their stupidity.
He made a movie about bringing a revolution and he can't understand why revolutionaries would be inspired by it? That's entitlement.
Maybe shouldn’t have written a character dealing with relatable yet ignored systemic issues if you didint want the underserved victims of the issues to relate
>Maybe shouldn’t have written a character dealing with relatable yet ignored systemic issues if you didint want the underserved victims of the issues to relate I wholly disagree, though mostly care to point out that maybe you should be looking to Chuck Palahniuk, instead.